Pray for Britain

Seems to me that this will place Britain at the forefront of economic disadvantage.

You know, back in the day we had a similar problem like this where politicians ignored the people, and I think we rather pushed back against that sometime around 1776. Perhaps after a few years, we’ll see a repeat of that, but this time in Britain, rather than a colony.

I think some of the goals are impossible to achieve given Britain’s current direction and results, such as the folly of the wind power program.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/04/06/whoa-windfarms-in-uk-operate-well-below-advertised-efficiency/

In the Guardian article, I cringed over this, even though I have an electric car of my own.

The committee’s report says the new carbon deal will require that heat pumps will have had to be installed in 2.6m homes by 2025. It also says that by the same date 31% of new cars, and 14% of those on the road overall, will be electric. Experts say a total of £16bn of investment will be needed every year to meet the commitment. Some of this money will be raised through increases in electricity prices.

God help you all, at least until you throw the bums out. Full story here

h/t to WUWT readers PhilW, M White, Steve C, and Harry Trent

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193 thoughts on “Pray for Britain

  1. Rule Britannia, Britannia rules the waves… which will rise and cover them should the sea-level rise catastrophically, whether they and the whole world reduce their CO2 emissions to zero, which should approximate their GNP.

  2. Well, if they throw the bums out, they’ll have to make do with Labour again. Caught between a rock and a hard place. (Situation here in Germany is similar – we have a conservative warmist government and we could choose to opt for Green dictatorship instead.)

  3. Brits. We have an opportunity to make our views known!

    The following is an extract from a recent email that I received from CIWEM, The Chartered Institution of Water & Environmental Management:

    The Coalition Government, under its ‘Red Tape Challenge’ are asking people to tell them what ‘red tape’ is unnecessary and in response the Government will ‘reduce the burden of regulation’.

    All our environmental regulation and legislation is individually listed on the red tape challenge website and is open to this process and unless you respond to the call for comments using the link below as a concerned individual, the protection of our environment is seriously under threat.

    This email is a call to action for CIWEM members and contacts and we implore you to add your comments.

    The Government’s view is ‘regulations and the inspections and bureaucracy that go with them have piled up and up….this has hurt business…’.

    Please use the link below and enter your comments in the environment section or under specific parts of the environment section.

    http://www.redtapechallenge.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/environment

    It is utterly essential that you respond and pass this email to others you know so they can comment.

  4. The USA has been shorn of another ally. No doubt Soros and his minions are ecstatic. Now California has a competitor and we can watch a race to Hell. May the most talented watermelons win.

  5. A sane person would not think Britain was big enough to be on the forefront of the global battle against climate change…….

    The 2007 numbers list China as #1 with 22.3% of world emissions,
    and The United Kingdom as #8 with only 1.84%………

    Even if they shut down completely, no one would notice 1.84%,
    will not make one bit of difference and is a joke.

  6. Just returned from a four day golf break in Spain with eight guys, doctors and a few rich businessmen. Dinner chat naturally included ‘climate’ issues and the disastrous energy policies being pursued by our government.
    Failed to persuade them of the urgency of the situation for the UK, despite presenting data re. climate and so called ‘green energy’. All my friends are scientifically literate but just do not want to engage, even those in the ‘sceptic’ camp.
    God help us!
    ( Article in Sunday Times News Review decrying the proliferation of wind farms, but no science content)

  7. Barry Woods says:
    May 15, 2011 at 12:32 pm
    ……….
    From my experience of UK politics, one has to make a clear distinction between policy and the actual financial commitments. Previous lot spent it all. This lot has to borrow every penny. One thing is their political commitment, financing that commitment may be a totally different matter.

  8. When I was born Baldwin was the British Prime Minister. They have had some poor Premiers since then but in my opinion, Cameron has the weakest intellect of the lot.

  9. It is the European Union that is the instigator of this economic-catastrophe-in-the-making. Europe has ‘had it in’ for the UK for longer than most people can remember and slowly but surely they are getting their own back. The folly that is the UKs energy policy will not be rescued until the collapse of the EU – to hope for political common sense would be wishful thining. But, fortunately for us, the imminent collapse of the Euro (currency) will be the fore-runner of the total collapse of Europe as a political entity and with it, their stranglehold over the UK. The British politicians (of all parties), the BBC and the MSM have been complicit in the treason being perpetuated upon us by failing to report this ‘invasion’ by stealth and lacking the courage to fight for our freedom and self-determination. Only the bloggers keep the faith.

  10. It seems the Guardian announcement may be a little premature, in fact there have been reports of this floating about the fringe political blogs and the like for a couple of weeks now.

    But the Sunday Times, behind a paywall I am afraid, I get the dead tree version, reports today that the matter is to be discussed this coming week and that the Gov’t has been warned by by several major UK business, not specified, that if it does this they will pull out of the UK.

    Indeed from what I can gather nothing has been agreed although statements have been made that is very different from actual legislation which is a long way down the road.

    More spin than substance it would appear at this stage: now where have we heard that before?

    I will keep you posted as and when.

    Kindest Regards

  11. The committee’s report says the new carbon deal will require that heat pumps will have had to be installed in 2.6m homes by 2025.

    And just what is going to power those heat pumps? Windmills? Give me a break. If this goes through, people are going to freeze to death in the dark.

  12. They are about to push the button on – I think – 12 new Nuclear Powerstations in the UK, I think this is just a bit of spin for the benefit of the UK public.

  13. The house still has to vote on it. This is a Conservative and LibDem (progressive) coalition, and Huhne is a green socialist.

    Wouldn’t it be funny if Conservative MPs voted against it. They’d have to call an election, and LibDems are not popular.

  14. We can’t throw them out – all three main parties are of a like mind! If all the initiatives of all the parties are enacted I think it comes to about one trillion pounds. The end result is planned to be a grid which changes customer usage to meet the power available via a ‘smart grid’ – turning off devices in the home as required.

    It did seem like the major party was questioning our commitment to unilaterally reducing CO2 to 80% less than we used in 1990 [to reduce global temperatures by 0.01C] so I was taken aback to see this headline.

    I still find it really strange that the political parties are quite happy to destroy the economy of the UK for so little benefit. They don’t even seem to be prepared to question their actions in any way. What are THEY gaining from it?

    I see a rapid slippery slope – what remains of our industry will not be able to compete and will disappear. As the government seems paralysed in what to do with power plants due to be retired we will also suffer power cuts – which would drive the City of London firms to relocate to less insane climes.

    The UK Government owes at least a trillion pounds which is okay IF the creditors think we can pay it. If not then Greece, Portugal, Ireland and Iceland give a pointer to our future. We will reduce our CO2 emmissions by not being able to afford to emit anything!

    Europe in general seems to be self-destructing due to so called ‘Green’ policies. Spain and Portugal spent heavily on renewables. I believe Italy spent a lot on subsidies for solar. Germany has also spent heavily, but can just about afford it at the moment, although that may change with their ban on nuclear.

    France is just passing a law to outlaw frakking for shale gas, and Poland is concerned that they, with AGW influence in other countries, may make it in to a European Union wide ban. The French initiative was backed by their nuclear industry, and apparently Gazprom! No conflict of interest there! I read that frakking has been used for 60 years with over 2 million operations with no problems.

    When you see a satellite picture of North Korea at night with one lit area – come back in five years time and Europe will be pretty similar.

  15. Britain at the forefront?
    Germany is also racing with Britain on the same track. Tomorrow I’ll have a post about what Germany’s leading political daily calls “a growing green tyranny”. Things are really getting bad here, too.

    This is the Green 1933, and it’s not a time for Neville Chamberlains – speak to your US lawmakers about this danger. This green malignancy will spread well beyond Europe if given the chance.

  16. Meanwhile in the Sunday Times today

    “Business leaders force ministers into climate retreat
    Industrial giants have threatened to move manufacture away from Britain if the government backs new limits on greenhouse gas emissions”

    Also in the Sunday Times

    “Secret tape puts heat on Huhne. A recording catches the minister repeatedly telling witness not to talk to media about allegations that he lied to the police”

    But then the bad news from the Sunday Times…be very afraid.

    “Take a deep breath: oxygen is declining. A dramatic decline in oxygen levels on Earth has a direct link with CO2 from burning of fossil fuels, according to a 20-year study”

    It’s a all behind their pay wall, gasp, choke.

  17. It is too late to ask God for help. The little gods want it their own way and their subjects have been convinced that God doesn’t exist. Let them get what is coming. Bring it on!

  18. Yes. We have a penchant for long term decline here. The projected GDP for 2020 and 2040 – Britain will be overtaken by Brazil and Russia. Europe is in long term decline too. It is at the forefront of the misanthropic creed of human doom and green fever, as is already commented on.

    However, the decline will be in all countries that believe in starving the economy for the sake of the global warming myth.

  19. “Seems to me that this will place Britain at the forefront of economic disadvantage.”

    That’s the whole point.

    Of course, the clowns who thought this up will never be at an economic disadvantage. They’ve planned it that way.

  20. Nothing to be worried about, just a bit of Spin, this is merely about managing the message about the UK’s new Nuclear reactors which will be made next month…

    “UK regulator’s latest quarterly statement of its pre-licencing evaluation of the Westinghouse AP1000 and EDF/Areva EPR reactor has laid out how it plans to deal with unresolved issues that spill over beyond its stated deadline of [30th] June 2011.

    The UK Nuclear Installations Inspectorate has stated that its target is a ‘meaningful’ generic design assessment of the two reactor designs by [30th] June 2011, at which point it would issue a so-called design acceptance confirmation (DAC).

    http://www.hse.gov.uk/newreactors/reports/gda-q4-10.pdf

  21. Will the last person to leave the UK please switch the lights off….

    Oh no…. They will already be OFF..!!

  22. Max_B says:
    May 15, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    They are about to push the button on – I think – 12 new Nuclear Powerstations in the UK, I think this is just a bit of spin for the benefit of the UK public.

    Exactly. This article willingly misses the elephant in the room. What they are trying to “legally commit” to a new fleet of nuclear facilities build by our french neighbours. It is impossible to write about future nation energy plan without talking about what place nuclear has in it.

    Wilful omition of the truth.

    Usual pathetic reporting from The Guardian. This article is probably a reprint of the Downing St. press release.

  23. “Take a deep breath: oxygen is declining. A dramatic decline in oxygen levels on Earth has a direct link with CO2 from burning of fossil fuels, according to a 20-year study”
    ====================================
    The paper is from 1999…………
    I wouldn’t call a 0.03% reduction, dramatic.
    But the drama queens at the Sunday Times would……….
    You get a much bigger reduction than that just going inside.

    Atmospheric Oxygen Levels Falling
    Environment News Service 1999, July 19,1999
    Sydney, Australia

  24. The “east Asians” aka Pakistanis will return home. Their comment will be that not only is Britain’s electricity supply just as bad as Pakistan’s, but the food rots too.

  25. Ken Harvey says:
    May 15, 2011 at 12:49 pm
    When I was born Baldwin was the British Prime Minister. They have had some poor Premiers since then but in my opinion, Cameron has the weakest intellect of the lot.
    ——————————————–

    Gordon Brown wasn’t the sharpest pencil in the box.

  26. Why are the politicians being blamed?. Politicians have to follow advice. A politician has to rely on respected authorities, such as the Royal Society. However the poor politicians will be excoriated by historians if it turns out bad. A commenter on J Curry’s blog pointed out that the respected authorities such as the RS, APS,,, dont have any accountability. The politicians are accountable. Dont blame politicians, feel sorry for them. There should be a method to make the Royal Society and its counterparts like the APS responsible for the consequences of mistaken advice.

  27. It is not true that all the UK political parties support this madness. UKIP for one doesn’t. More than 2 million people voted UKIP at the last euro election and the recent voting at local elections suggests that support at a Westminster election right now would be well over a million.

    Unfortunately the support is pretty evenly spread so that in the absence of proportional representation it does not translate into seats. However we should not despair. A little extra push may tip the balance and start yielding loads of seats.

    The only trouble is that Huhne will now, with his plan approved, go ahead with deals guaranteeing electricity floor prices to nuclear producers, renewable obligation certificates and feed in tarriffs for solar and wind producers and so on. Each of these deals when signed locks us in contractually to paying for high cost power right through to 2035, whether we want to take the power or not.

    While everyone else is enjoying cheap shale gas, thorium based nuclear or whatever other cheap new technology comes along, the UK will be left mired in the high cost mess left to us by Huhne.

    Even if we did elect UKIP in 5 to 10 years time, they by then would face a huge problem in getting us out of all Huhne’s disastrous contracts and we would probably be stuck with most of them through to 2035. Our country it appears is doomed to future poverty and apart from emigrating, I can’t really see a way out.

  28. On Jo Nova’s blog a while ago she reported that sceptical Aussies were ‘up in arms’ about their proposed carbon tax – the proposal – a mere 5% reduction by 2020.

    I commented that their eco-nutters weren’t even in the same league as our eco-loons in the UK, and went on to acquaint them with Ed Miliband’s 2008 Climate Change Act. This requires, BY LAW, an 80% reduction in CO2 emissions by 2050 against a 1990 baseline, 34% by 2020. You couldn’t make it up!

    I was hoping that the whole thing would be quietly forgotten because of the huge deficit problem that we have. But no, the eco-fascists seem to have prevailed.

    I despair!

  29. It is solemnly hoped that this:-

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/liberaldemocrats/8514500/Chris-Huhne-warned-witness-to-stay-silent-over-speeding-offence.html

    – is going to be sufficient to cut this vile little creature Huhne, off at the knees, rendering incapable of delivering to Parliament his disastrous “news” of this devastating agreement. It may, however, render his “victory” somewhat more bitter than he foresaw.
    It is also deeply depressing when one realises that all political parties here in the UK subscribe wholeheartedly to the fallacy of CAGW, we are unable to vote out the greens, they have infected everywhere.

  30. The Finns are getting ready to throw the bums out.

    In the recent elections, the True Finns party (Perussuomalaiset) rose from almost nothingness to 19% of the vote and won 39 seats in our 200 seat parliament on a platform promising a declaration of independence from the EU and no increasing the price of energy on he basis of dodgy climate science.

    The Establishment did all it could to vilify them as isolationists, xenohbes and rasists, but it backfired.

    As the True Finns could not agree with the intent of the other parties to fork out billions of euros to support foreign banks, which have lent to PIIGS countries, they are in opposition. WAIT IN FOUR YEARS’ TIME…

  31. I expect we will see a massive exodus of the best/brightest out of the UK to these shores, or elsewhere. They’ve already lost some great talent abroad. Reminds me of Rhodesia….errrr, sorry, Zimbabwe.

  32. This is very good news indeed, as it will drive investment in the technologies of the future, rather than those of the Victorian era, such as the internal combustion engine and coal and steam driven electricity generation. It’s the countries that lag behind that will have to import these new technologies from us, and they are the ones that will be economically disadvantaged.

  33. You get what you vote for. This was not imposed by an evil outside dictator, it came from within. Self inflicted. No prayers for the Brits.

    We have our own disaster(s). We voted for “hope and change”, we got trillions in new debt. According to the folks at Pimco, our Fed is buying (read printing) 2/3 or more of our new debt. Which can have only one outcome. And it ain’t pretty. Can you spell “Weimar”? (which had a less pretty outcome)

    The folks on the east side of the pond aren’t the only ones in trouble.

  34. Frakking for Shale Gas is all good and well, energy independance and all that. But do I really want to heat my home with flammable tap water?

  35. After Adam and Eve ate from “The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil”, we are still trying to decide what is GOOD and what is EVIL.

    It appears that there is no way to be able to determine the correct course of action!

    I’m beginning to think that staying naked and uninformed is easier and cheaper than making all of those clothes [and maybe more exciting].

    A parable:
    If you give a man a fish, he will be great-full. He will eat, be full, and have a great nights sleep, and think that you are his friend.

    If you teach a man to fish, he will need to buy fishing tackle, a boat, fuel, and hire a crew. He will then provide for himself and the local village. He will not sleep, because he needs to catch fish to survive. Next, he will be forced to support a government through excessive taxation. He will need to conform to regulations or go to prison.

    Of course, the man will hate you and the horse you rode in on. If he is aggressive, he may try to kill you.

    You choose->Good or Evil??

  36. He, he, and I suppose the windmills are going to provide the juice for all those electric cars? There are so many things wrong with this “plan” that it would take days to describe them all.

    An absolutely perfect example of what happens when you let “progressives” with too much academic “sense” but no common sense call the shots. We in the USA were getting close to this neurotic behavior, until the TeaParty activities put a brake on it.

  37. The end of Great Britain for the next decade. There will be riots in streets in 3 to 4 years as the economic fallout hits the poor immigrants the hardest. Everything will become more expensive. And the poor will be hit the hardest.

    When the cars start burning, you’ll know it is beginning. It’s certainly time to short the Pound Sterling as GB’s government has sold out its people and economy. Watch for taxes to rise 15%. Then watch for capital to flee the country.

    This is horrible news for Britain.

  38. Executive Summary

    I. This report examines the costs and benefits of government policy to support the renewable energy industry in Scotland and the UK. The Scottish Government in particular is promoting the renewables sector as an economic opportunity, and the purpose of this report is to assess whether this is justified. The report therefore does not investigate measures designed to reduce carbon emissions directly, nor does it consider the merits of renewable technology as part of the attempts to slow climate change.

    II. The report’s key finding is that for every job created in the UK in renewable energy, 3.7 jobs are lost. In Scotland there is no net benefit from government support for the sector, and probably a small net loss of jobs.

    III. The lower level of job displacement in Scotland is because of the greater concentration of renewable energy generation in Scotland. This means that electricity consumers and UK taxpayers subsidised the Scottish industry by c £330m in 2009/10 over and above subsidies paid for by Scottish taxpayers and consumers. To the extent that the Scottish industry is a success, it is reliant on the wider UK policy making framework, in particular the Renewables ObligationCertificate (ROC) scheme.

    http://www.uncoverage.net/2011/03/the-true-cost-of-global-warming-policy/

  39. Richard Hill says:
    May 15, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    “Dont blame politicians, feel sorry for them. There should be a method to make the Royal Society and its counterparts like the APS responsible for the consequences of mistaken advice.”

    Richard, I take your point, however I do expect politicians to have inquiring minds and not just follow the party line as was evident in the last SciTech Com review. So if they are not use their minds and question issues they are to blame.

    Only by them doing so will we get a system that holds the RS, APS and such to account.

    They are taking the easy option, do not let them.

  40. Seems that the “50 million climate refugees” may become true afterall.

    but caused by “green” decisions making it impossible to live in areas that were once prosperous, and NOT by any changes in the climate.

  41. One good outcome of this political decision is linguistic evolution. Delingpole at the Telegraph came up with the following: “According to the Observer’s trouser-bulgingly excited report…” It strikes me as the most apt of phrases for describing the attitudes of newspapers toward favored politicians in this era. “Trouser-bulging excitement,” yes, that does perfectly express the attitude of the New York Times and all the MSM toward Obama, for example.

  42. @Neil Burrows says:
    May 15, 2011 at 2:00 pm
    *****
    Natural gas is … err … natural. Sometimes it occurs naturally in aquifers.

    In Texas, fracking has been used for 60 years, tens of thousands of times, with no major problems. Why don’t you take your Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt (and ignorance) somewhere people exist that will believe you … if you can find any at all.

    “Hydraulic fracturing for stimulation of oil and natural gas wells was first used in the United States in 1947.[17][18] It was first used commercially by Halliburton in 1949,[17] and because of its success in increasing production from oil wells was quickly adopted, and is now used worldwide in tens of thousands of oil and natural gas wells annually. The first industrial use of hydraulic fracturing was as early as 1903, according to T.L. Watson.[19] Before that date, hydraulic fracturing was used at Mt. Airy Quarry, near Mt Airy, North Carolina where it was (and still is) used to separate granite blocks from bedrock.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_fracturing

  43. Mr. McGuire: I want to say one word to you. Just one word.
    Benjamin: Yes, sir.
    Mr. McGuire: Are you listening?
    Benjamin: Yes, I am.
    Mr. McGuire: Nuclear.

    Climate change is merely how it is being “framed.”

    The UK politicians in power aren’t greenies, methinks. The actual greenies are in confusion because the landscape they want to protect from climate change is getting ruined by wind farms. Just keep building wind farms until the NIMBYism overrides it and they all give in to nuclear and “clean” coal or gas or whatever.

  44. It also says that by the same date 31% of new cars, and 14% of those on the road overall, will be electric.

    Where will they get their electricity from in winter?

    11 January 2011
    “Wind farms produced ‘practically no electricity’ during Britain’s cold snap”

    27 December 2010
    “‘Green’ Scotland relying on French nuclear power”

    Expect future excess winter deaths to decline

    11 Jan 2010
    “Britain’s cold weather: deaths soar as winter takes its toll”

  45. @
    CRS, Dr.P.H. says:
    May 15, 2011 at 1:52 pm

    I expect we will see a massive exodus of the best/brightest out of the UK to these shores, or elsewhere. They’ve already lost some great talent abroad. Reminds me of Rhodesia….errrr, sorry, Zimbabwe.

    I suspect you’re very much correct. Don’t expect Dean Morrison to be among those “best/brightest”…

    Dean Morrison says:
    May 15, 2011 at 1:53 pm

    This is very good news indeed, as it will drive investment in the technologies of the future, rather than those of the Victorian era, such as the internal combustion engine and coal and steam driven electricity generation. It’s the countries that lag behind that will have to import these new technologies from us, and they are the ones that will be economically disadvantaged.

  46. Max-B — I’m sure you are right. I have never understood how the fanatics in the Green movement can push for heat pumps and electric cars but don’t want any extra electricity production to run them. They don’t want coal fired generation , wind and solar in the UK must be ” dead ducks” ( could not keep things going last winter when demand was up ) , I’m not sure how much gas is left in the North Sea and then they don’t want nuclear. Is their answer to “out source” electricity supply to their neighbours ??
    (BTW don’t forget the EU directive which will effectively shut down about 5 of the biggest coal fired generators , in few years time)

  47. Meanwhile people will be forced to spend their money: spend for the very same thing they already have, car, appliances, house etc… With no savings left, people will have to work relentlessly with no safeguard. There is no better mind control.
    Notice how Labour, Conservatives and Democrats are just puppets of this, rubberstamping Big Green decisions. This highjacking of people’s savings will not go well as populations will feel they now have nothing to lose. Last fall demonstrations against high tuitions were the start. The UK will see civil unrest like they have never known.

  48. In deciding if this is worth the effort, the might want to consider how long it will take any CO2 savings there to be compensated by CO2 emissions growth elsewhere. I believe they will discover that if they immediately reached their goal of total CO2 reductions, that reduction will be eliminated by growth elsewhere in only a few weeks time.

    But that all supposes that CO2 is in some way harmful and needs to be reduced. Please, can someone show any actual link between CO2 and climate?

    So far nobody actually has.

  49. P Gosselin says:
    May 15, 2011 at 1:06 pm
    “Britain at the forefront?
    Germany is also racing with Britain on the same track. Tomorrow I’ll have a post about what Germany’s leading political daily calls “a growing green tyranny”. Things are really getting bad here, too. ”

    Thanks for the hint, Pierre. Found it :-)
    But i won’t comment on it before you post.

  50. As if Britain didn’t have enough economic woes as it was… now they are surely doomed to years of recession or minimal economic growth. My 3 brothers and their families live there … I know that my niece, her husband and child are planning to make the shift to Canada. Two of my brothers will probably move to the continent…

    This should help with Australia’s skills shortage due to the Chinese mineral demand boom. Let’s hope some more Brit trades people come to Western Australia as we are in desperate need. At least until the wheels fall off in Europe (which can’t be that far away). After that it is anyone’s guess what the world economy will do.

  51. well – email off to my MP demanding some answers. My job is at risk if the UK can not guarantee reliable and globally competitive pricing of electricity.
    I work in a call centre of 30 odd engineers giving technical support for an American Company to EMEA (French; Spanish; English; Scandinavian; Southern Africa; Middle Eastern industrial clients) and part of my job is to run a global support contract to some 160 factories (Japan; US; France; Thailand; UK …) This requires that I (and my team) have 100% reliable internet connections. Which means we must have 100% reliable electricity.
    The day it appears that we may not be able to go on line at a moments notice to some country (Oz; Finland…) and resolve their production problem is the day my job goes (along with 30 other engineers).

    Other tech based companies in the UK would have to do the same.

    The company I work for would just move the call centre to some other part of Europe – or even China/India. So would other companies. Near where I live is the global centre of Formula 1 technology (like Nascar; but the circuits are a bit more complex ! :-) ). Again; a high value knowledge based industry that can not afford to have any doubts about the electricity supply; nor can it remain here is the energy bill becomes as crazy as the watermelons intend.

    These people are absolute morons. They have no idea what they are doing. Nor are they listening to the people. Anyone got a green card to spare for an Automation/Process Control engineer the wrong side of 55 ? (mm – I am not sure how serious that appeal is – it’s meant to be sarcastic/tongue in cheek; but I’m actually not quite so sure ? )

  52. India must be licking its chops at the idea of taking over the U.K…….

    For every ton of CO2 the U.K. cuts, India and China will increase theirs by 5x. India and China will be dancing in the streets knowing that they can make even more money selling to the U.K. what is prohibitively expensive…or not allowed.. to be produced domestically.

    Smoke belching Tatas will transport the gleeful Jaguar workers to the plants that build the batteries and electric motors for the Green Jag of Tomorrow.

  53. Former head of Australia’s Climate program bolts.
    “Carbon warming too minor to be worth worrying about

    By David Evans

    The debate about global warming has reached ridiculous proportions and is full of micro-thin half-truths and misunderstandings. I am a scientist who was on the carbon gravy train, understands the evidence, was once an alarmist, but am now a skeptic. Watching this issue unfold has been amusing but, lately, worrying. This issue is tearing society apart, making fools out of our politicians.

    Let’s set a few things straight.

    The whole idea that carbon dioxide is the main cause of the recent global warming is based on a guess that was proved false by empirical evidence during the 1990s. But the gravy train was too big, with too many jobs, industries, trading profits, political careers, and the possibility of world government and total control riding on the outcome. So rather than admit they were wrong, the governments, and their tame climate scientists, now outrageously maintain the fiction that carbon dioxide is a dangerous pollutant.”

    Doctor Evans has left the farm.

    http://opinion.financialpost.com/2011/04/07/climate-models-go-cold/

  54. Julia Gillard is doing badly in the polls in Australia, what with the proposed Carbon Tax ( no mention ever of the Dioxide word), and the migrant policy. If there was to be an election today she would lose.

  55. son of mulder says:
    May 15, 2011 at 1:06 pm
    ….
    But then the bad news from the Sunday Times…be very afraid.
    “Take a deep breath: oxygen is declining. A dramatic decline in oxygen levels on Earth has a direct link with CO2 from burning of fossil fuels, according to a 20-year study”
    ———————————————————————————————

    The article goes on to say that in 45,000 years, all the oxygen will be gone.

    We’re doomed! And the ST used to be a serious newspaper.

    Even though I’m an oldish English guy (of 66 years and still going strong), I’m actively pursuing a move from this toilet of a country to somewhere freer that won’t be hit so hard by the imminent cooling. It’s a wrench, but I don’t fancy freezing to death in the dark.

  56. Dean Morrison says:
    May 15, 2011 at 1:53 pm
    “This is very good news indeed, as it will drive investment in the technologies of the future, rather than those of the Victorian era, such as the internal combustion engine and coal and steam driven electricity generation. It’s the countries that lag behind that will have to import these new technologies from us, and they are the ones that will be economically disadvantaged.”

    Ever heard of second mover advantage? Germany pours 16bn Euro a year from the pockets of ratepayers into the wind turbine and PV owners’, (who, in turn, had to churn out their money to buy the contraptions), we had an industrial headstart into that sector but now buy half of the contraptions from China, with a rising percentage. As they get cheaper over time, well at least PV still does; Wind turbines have stabilized; the later you get into that money squandering business the cheaper it gets for you, and you end up buying the things from China anyway.

    Also, the electric motor is very much a Victorian era invention, just FYI.

  57. A British civil servant was presented with a report advising the installation of wind driven electricity generators on the roofs of all schools in the country.
    Realising the utter stupidity of the idea, on the top of the first page he wrote ‘ BALLS’.
    On reflection he decided that discretion was the better part of valour, erased the word and then wrote ‘ ROUND OBJECTS’.
    He then returned the report to the office of the Government Minister.
    Three weeks later the report was back on his desk. Under his comment was written in the Minister’s handwriting ‘ Who is Round and exactly what is he objecting to?’

    Alas, we are lions led by donkeys

  58. aargh, there I was thinking I could give up on this climate evil, like Jeff id, because enough people were waking up and I’ve other things to do, then I see this, and I’m still just as passionate as ever, like Jeff.

    Anthony, would you like to run my Climate Science Primer (click my name) as a thread here? It’s far from perfect and I can no longer cope with updating it, but a lot of people have written me thanks for it. I think that one humunguous problem still is that people / politicians find Climate Science so frakkin’ complicated they feel they have to leave it up to “experts” to tell them and then we have this dirty problem with the Royal Society. And still there is no beginners’ reference point here at WUWT.

    Plus I’ve just done a whole powerpoint presentation (click top RH corner of my page). I’ve had no comments back from Warren Meyer whose material I used so I have to assume he’s ok with it. Not all skeptics agree on my CO2 ice core measurement concerns, but I trust it’s expressed openly enough.

    Plus I still advocate climate skeptics get a wiki going, to answer all John Cook’s nonsense, item by item, and have clout to present to the Royal Society etc. A wiki that has the WHOLE climate skeptics community behind it. That would be a real gift to our children, rather than lots of comments about how dreadful this is, that don’t find ways to fight back. I still have my “seed” wiki available.

  59. funny.
    margaret thatcher hatched the scheme to demonize carbon (though monckton doesn’t like to talk about that part of the climate wars.
    see how them chickens roost.
    darwin smiles.

  60. Going down the same road as Spain doesn’t seem to make a whole lot of sense.
    How are they going to produce all of the energy needed to charge all of these electric cars? When people arrive home from work and thousands of cars are all plugged in at the same time.
    Windmills and solar power panels are not the answer, the technology needed has not been developed yet.

  61. Dean Morrison says:
    May 15, 2011 at 1:53 pm

    This is very good news indeed, as it will drive investment in the technologies of the future, rather than those of the Victorian era, such as the internal combustion engine and coal and steam driven electricity generation. It’s the countries that lag behind that will have to import these new technologies from us, and they are the ones that will be economically disadvantaged.

    New technologies become dominant because they are proven to be technically superior to the current way of doing things; not because of government mandate.

    If the renewable energy technologies were truly superior to the current ones, then they would be winning in the market place without government mandating their use.

    I can think of no technology that has become successful because the government mandated its use. Few economic models are successful under government mandate also. Yet, you think this British move will apparently somehow magically buck the trend.

    Government investment in research can lead to great emerging technology. But the marketplace is where it is ultimately decided if a technology if feasible or not.

  62. vukcevic says:
    May 15, 2011 at 12:47 pm
    ……….
    From my experience of UK politics, one has to make a clear distinction between policy and the actual financial commitments. Previous lot spent it all. This lot has to borrow every penny. One thing is their political commitment, financing that commitment may be a totally different matter.
    ———————————————————————
    vukcevic That is not a difficulty – think taxes taxes and more taxes.

    Douglas

  63. The single, most expensive, piece of legislation ever passed in the UK was the 2008 Climate Change Act. It will cost £18bn each year, which will be raised by increasing electricity, gas and fuel prices paid by everyone in the UK – and those trying to leave.

    I have always been led to believe that a new government is not bound by the actions of its predecessors.

    Repealing this one Act would do much to reduce our vast deficit. And it would, at least, allow each taxpayer to decide where their cash should go or not.

    The cement industry has just been handed a huge bonus by this announcement. Each large windmill requires about 1,000 tons of concrete for its foundation.

    How long will that windmill have to spin, to compensate for the CO2 generated in its construction, before it produces anything even approaching break-even?

    When the nuclear construction progamme is announced, what are the chances of the fuel being Thorium? About the same as me winning the lottery…

  64. Dean Morrison says:
    May 15, 2011 at 1:53 pm

    This is very good news indeed, as it will drive investment in the technologies of the future, rather than those of the Victorian era, such as the internal combustion engine and coal and steam driven electricity generation. It’s the countries that lag behind that will have to import these new technologies from us, and they are the ones that will be economically disadvantaged.

    you forgot the “/sarc” tag. I hope you did, anyway….

    I already left the UK, mainly because of the rot in society and the awful weather. I am glad I did not wait, or I would not have been able to aford to with the pound so damaged.

    Unfortunately, for various reasons, I still have a house there. I watched the prices drop as the Global Economic Cockup dud its damage. No I have watched the once-mighty pound drop and drop. Every dead-cat-bounce, I hope for a rebound, but there just seems no change at all. Loonies like this will ensure its demise. I would say get into the Euro is my advice, as at least there is company (not security), but that is even worse!

    Right now the Aussie $ is king, and that is because we sell things people need: coal, iron and sugar.

  65. Richard Hill says:
    May 15, 2011 at 1:42 pm
    Why are the politicians being blamed?. Politicians have to follow advice. A politician has to rely on respected authorities, such as the Royal Society. However the poor politicians will be excoriated by historians if it turns out bad. A commenter on J Curry’s blog pointed out that the respected authorities such as the RS, APS,,, dont have any accountability. The politicians are accountable. Dont blame politicians, feel sorry for them. There should be a method to make the Royal Society and its counterparts like the APS responsible for the consequences of mistaken advice.
    ———————————————————————————
    Richard Hill. While I understand your argument I cannot agree with you. Because the politicians ARE accountable they should look one step ahead of the advice given by the (unaccountable) ‘scientists’. The fact of the matter is that the policies promoted by the politicians (based upon this advice) will certainly ruin the economy while the advice proffered by the so called ‘experts’ is based upon unproven speculation. What sort of politician gambles on those odds? Turkeys voting for Christmas?

    Douglas

  66. son of mulder says:
    May 15, 2011 at 1:06 pm

    “But then the bad news from the Sunday Times…be very afraid.

    “Take a deep breath: oxygen is declining. A dramatic decline in oxygen levels on Earth has a direct link with CO2 from burning of fossil fuels, according to a 20-year study”

    It’s a all behind their pay wall, gasp, choke.”

    Oh, please let the MSM take this and run with it. City streets will be filled with the hysterical, all of them gagging, some spitting blood. Finally, we will be able to see the hysterical from some distance and avoid them. Also, the non-hysterical will be able to see just how much of government nonsense comes from the hysterical.

  67. Who would have thought the first lemming off the cliff had a British accent?

  68. The Greens will be whooping with joy as the UK [and Europe] retreat 200 years….but… it reminds of a tale from the IT department of the Greater London Council [where I worked for many years].

    A manager was organising a live halon test [Halon is a gas to replace oxygen to stop a fire]. He got everyone out – the door closed and automatically locked – but he was still on the inside still in supervising mode! Apparently someone got a fireaxe and got him out.

    While the AGW supporters may clap and cheer as Europe moves back to the dark ages [with an accompanying Little Ice Age to add realism] they will eventually realise that they too are ‘on the inside’ with no job, no food, no shelter, no shops…..nothing…..

  69. Lucy Skywalker says:
    May 15, 2011 at 3:41 pm
    ……………….And still there is no beginners’ reference point here at WUWT.

    You have a point. WUWT would do well to have a page called ‘the lowdown’ or something like that.

  70. gnomish says:
    May 15, 2011 at 3:46 pm

    funny.
    margaret thatcher hatched the scheme to demonize carbon (though monckton doesn’t like to talk about that part of the climate wars. see how them chickens roost.
    darwin smiles.

    You have a valid point, one which I have also made here. It is important to note that Thatcher is now a sceptic. WUWT has in the past featured this very point in 2010.

    “Margaret Thatcher was the first leader to warn of global warming – but also the first to see the flaws in the climate change orthodoxy.”

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/06/14/was-margaret-thatcher-the-first-climate-sceptic/

  71. Anthony, I also drive an EV – although I had to build it first (still a work in progress, but it does 70 MPH – yippee!).

    I share your concern over making mandatory changes requiring their use especially on that scale. If past and present examples of wind power is any example of what can happen when government imposes winners and losers, I shudder to think what might happen to EVs. They are a good idea and have a role to play, but it must not happen like this.

  72. Jer0me says:
    May 15, 2011 at 4:03 pm

    [————–I already left the UK, mainly because of the rot in society and the awful weather. I am glad I did not wait, or I would not have been able to aford to with the pound so damaged.—-Loonies like this will ensure its demise.—– the Euro —-is even worse!

    Right now the Aussie $ is king, and that is because we sell things people need: coal, iron and sugar.]
    ———————————————————————————
    Jerome You are right about the UK and Europe but can you count on Joolya? She is hell bent on destroying Oz —-It will take a lot of bloodymindness od Aussies to boot her and her mob out.

    Douglas

  73. I am one of the “lucky ones”. Scottish and British (proud of it). I can afford to leave. Like so many of my ancestors and relatives, I am done with this place.

  74. Latitude says: May 15, 2011 at 12:45 pm
    2007 numbers list China as #1 with 22.3% of world emissions, and The United Kingdom as #8 with only 1.84%………

    #102, Costa Rica, with 0.03%, expects to be the leader.

  75. a jones says:
    May 15, 2011 at 12:55 pm
    [It seems the Guardian announcement may be a little premature————–But the Sunday Times, —reports today that the matter is to be discussed this coming week and that the Gov’t has been warned by by several major UK business, not specified, that if it does this they will pull out of the UK. ——More spin than substance it would appear at this stage: now where have we heard that before?
    ——————————————————————————
    A jones. I sincerely hope that you are right. It is high time that Westminster used what common sense it has left and dumped this croc. Better still to dump Europe as well and set a sensible course for the future. BTW see any pigs overhead?

    Douglas

  76. gnomish says:
    May 15, 2011 at 3:46 pm
    funny.
    margaret thatcher hatched the scheme to demonize carbon (though monckton doesn’t like to talk about that part of the climate wars.
    see how them chickens roost.
    darwin smiles.
    ———————————————————————————
    Gnomish. Crap. She used this as a method to defeat Arthur Scargill who was a very vocal opponent of Margaret Thatcher’s Conservative government, and determined to use the union to oppose its policies, just as he had done with the Edward Heath government. He frequently appeared on television attacking the government and eventually led the union into the 1984–1985 miners’ strike. This ended in a shattering defeat for the miners and saw a split in the union (see Union of Democratic Mineworkers).

    There is a very long journey and many turnes in the road from the 1984 defeat of the stand-over tactics of Scargill to the daftness of AGW policies of 2011.

    Douglas

  77. It was ony a few weeks ago that I felt so proud to be British. watching the wonderful pageantry of the Royal wedding with the huge sense of history and presence that it generated. Truly, Britain was and still is a great nation.

    And then something like this ….. such idiocy, blindness, incompetence, ineptitude and intellectual mediocrity. Such overwhelming and utter stupidity. It makes me weep. Two billion people wathced the Royal wedding. How many will follow us down this path of disaster ? My only hope is that the goals are so stuipid and so unattainable that it all becomes irrelevant.

  78. The Lib Democrats got crushed in the recent local elections which puts them (Huhne and Clegg) in an odd position of not wanting to end the Cameron Government since the Tories would likely sweep Parliament. Even the casual reader of stories in The Guardian and similar left publications of the UK should read the comments. Although the Brits do seem to be indoctrinated, thoroughly, into the neo-Marxism of Welfare Europe, they do now when they’re freezing more and eating less. The local elections are a bell weather of voter discontent. In the US, it would be as if Sarah Palin were elected mayor of San Francisco prior to the 2012 Presidential elections.

    However, Parliament systems are great fun for intrigue and scheming and things. All it takes is a Gillard to take down a Rudd and off you go. The Telegraph’s Delingpole is likely right about it being a “flyer” since Huhne and the Lib Dems need to somehow resonate with their base. Likewise, if Cameron is not careful, he will find himself cast into the Rudd role, so to speak.

    Sadly, imho, it won’t make much difference. The UK has a great number of suicidal acts underway from Sharia to immigration to NHS to energy generation collapsing to their following the disaster of Obama-economics. The only way out for any sane Brit that can is to migrate out of the British Isles. Oh, and go to a warmer climate where you don’t need those blimey umbrellas.

  79. son of mulder wrote on May 15, 2011 at 1:06 pm.

    “Take a deep breath: oxygen is declining. A dramatic decline in oxygen levels on Earth has a direct link with CO2 from burning of fossil fuels, according to a 20-year study”

    High five SoM! We first addressed this problem a few years ago on the old (defunct) channel 4 forum. It may be a ’cause for concern’ (unknown outcome of human practise), but ‘catalysis’ (the photosynthesis of O2 from CO2) demands a ‘change in proportion’ (plant life/CO2 fertiliser) before a natural ‘remedial action’ (accelerated catalysis) can take place. However, this strongly suggests that the proposed human sequestration of CO2 should not be adopted For every atom of carbon sequestrated, two atoms of oxygen are also sequestrated! It’s best left in the atmosphere for the plants to deal with as the ocean sequestrates enough CO2 as it is. :)

    jae wrote on May 15, 2011 at 2:06 pm.

    “We in the USA were getting close to this neurotic behavior, until the TeaParty activities put a brake on it.”

    Not even close jae!

    The UK’s problem is one of ‘parliamentary national representation/parliamentary regional representation’. In the USA you only employ two political parties that vie for election in a first past the post style election. This is a good way to achieve ‘national and regional’ representation and ‘was also employed in the UK’ (Whigs [Liberal] and Tories [Conservative]) until the establishment of the Labour Party here. With the establishment of more than two political parties that vie for power in the UK we’ve introduced a disparity between national and regional representation. UK parliamentary elections are now undemocratic.

    The reasons for this disparity should be obvious, but if you’re scratching your head I’ll explain (for old time’s sake). :)

    Best regards, Ray Dart.

  80. cedarhill says:
    May 15, 2011 at 5:31 pm

    The only way out for any sane Brit that can is to migrate out of the British Isles. Oh, and go to a warmer climate where you don’t need those blimey umbrellas.
    —————————————————————–

    ……. like California, yeah !!!!!!

    Oh, hold on a sec ………….

  81. Max_B says:
    May 15, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    They are about to push the button on – I think – 12 new Nuclear Powerstations in the UK, I think this is just a bit of spin for the benefit of the UK public.

    Having spent a few years employed by a English ‘Sir’ (the queen gives knighthoods to some of the strangest people) I agree with your reading.
    The problem with a 20% reduction in CO2 emission is that you can get their with windmills and natural gas plants. To get beyond 20% you need nuclear plants, nuclear plants and more nuclear plants.

    So to get out from under windmills, windmills everywhere the target needs to be higher then 20%. Of course they’ll have to toss in a few token windmills to keep the greens happy.

  82. Anthony – “Pray for Britain“?????

    I reckon you’re laying the groundwork for the next science vs religion debate on WUWT, after CAGW finally collapses.

    To Brits wanting to leave the UK : I left the UK 30+ years ago, thus disproving the basic law of science that effect cannot precede cause. Back then, the Oz govt paid me to come. Now, unless you are prepared to destroy all documents that can identify you and refuse to tell anyone what your name is or where you come from, you will be hard pressed to get in. This at a time when Oz is desperately short of skilled people, in spite of the Teachers’ union’s valiant attempts to improve our education system by insisting that pupils’ skill levels must never be tested. However, there is one skill which would get you in – if you are an expert in political spin, good enough to get a government out of a deep hole, then Oz is your oyster.

  83. There are two powerful lobbies for AGW outside of the governments, who want the additional revenue stream, the trading companies who see a new market and the nuclear power industry. To build new nukes, they need a price for carbon to justify economic models of their construction financing – esp. the work-in-progress funding from regulated utility customers. The greenies (at least in the US) are a distant third.

  84. quote: “If we have to pay more in future that will slow economic growth, so we need to act now,” said Kennedy.

    The logic is stunning.

  85. The following clip used to be funny, very funny:

    Now it has happened in the UK and it isn’t funny at all.

  86. philincalifornia says:
    May 15, 2011 at 5:43 pm

    cedarhill says:
    May 15, 2011 at 5:31 pm

    The only way out for any sane Brit that can is to migrate out of the British Isles. Oh, and go to a warmer climate where you don’t need those blimey umbrellas.
    —————————————————————–

    ……. like California, yeah !!!!!!

    Oh, hold on a sec ………….

    Or: “California Dreamin’ … on such a winter’s day!”

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/05/15/late-low-may-snow-in-california/

  87. I pray for Europe, and I’m not even religious.

    It takes to long for the eurocrats to come to a decision, that’s why they’re still discussing new and approved high speed rail system fifteen years later without any spade having sniffed the soil yet. Heh, but sad really, for EU doesn’t even have the same railway standards in all EU countries yet. Although the eurocrats have already formulated policies for that europeans have to travel by train instead of flight under certain distances. Go figure.

  88. Dean Morrison says:
    “This is very good news indeed, as it will drive investment in the technologies of the future…”

    Dean, pray tell what are those wonderful new technologies in which Britain should be investing? I would be particularly interested in hearing about those new technologies that have actually been shown to produce affordable, reliable energy.

  89. 3.7 jobs lost for every subsidised green job created? It’s worse than we thought!

    Do politicians even bother take note of failed economic policies? I don’t think Cameron, Clegg, Ed Reallybland or Buffhuhne even know where Spain is on the map, which is slightly ironic seeing as it’s right next to Portugal and we are spending billions to keep their economy afloat. I guess they are oblivious to more than just observable science. At least with the high unemployment rates, high energy costs and high poverty levels the government can claim were are the leaders in something again.

    Of course in typical political style, in 20 years time they’ll claim that any reduction in average global temps over the same period is a result of their policies working and being worthwhile despite rendering us an economic joke (and with no co2 level drop). And when they inevitably rise again with their natural cycle as they have for four billion years, they’ll blame it on whatever party is in office with claims of undoing successful policies.

  90. Do you think the MSM will ask any hard questions,like “who is going to pay for heat pumps and electric cars”?”How will you enforce this”?”Do you think you have the constitutional right to tell your citizens what they can drive,and what heating they should have”How far will you enroach on people’s liberties,in the name of CO2″
    Australia is on this road.We will come to a halt in a couple of years Labor will be history(hopefully before).Looks like the only hope for the UK is the UKIP,that is a drastic step for a voter,but the present day government is pushing people into their arms.
    In case I get asked,the main thing I dislike about UKIP policy is forcing people to leave the country.For a lot of them,their only home is England.

  91. Place Britain at the forefront of the global battle against climate change. It must be very painful for them to admit there is still a Britain.

  92. Why does this declaration remind me of:
    “Peace in our time”

    It often irks me when I head a reporter ask someone “What do you think about…” and the person responds “I hope that …”; the reporter never replies, “No, I was asking what you think..”.

    The targets will not be met and they will not be in any position to recover quickly when stark reality makes ashes of the hoped for plan. They are not thinking, they are hopeing.

  93. “peter-dtm

    Anyone got a green card to spare for an Automation/Process Control engineer the wrong side of 55?”

    Well put. I’m about your age, and I got out about 8 years ago. Now I live in northern Japan. Nice country, nice people. The beaches are good, the rivers are clear and clean, I can ski within 20 minutes drive from home. Beer is cheap.

    Toyota, Sony etc. aren’t having a bar of eco-lunacy. Japan (inc) intends to still be in business when the lights go out in Europe and North America. Come to Japan, where [b]making things[/b] is regarded as an honourable way of life.

  94. Eric Gisin says:
    May 15, 2011 at 12:59 pm

    Wouldn’t it be funny if Conservative MPs voted against it. They’d have to call an election, and LibDems are not popular.

    Conceivably, this is what Cameron is scheming at. Let’s hope so.

    If not, the defection of a few key Tories like Mrs. Thatcher to the UKIP could unblock the current stalemate in a hurry, and utterly rejigger the landscape.

  95. Lucy Skywalker says:
    May 15, 2011 at 3:41 pm
    ……..
    Plus I still advocate climate skeptics get a wiki going, to answer all John Cook’s nonsense, item by item, and have clout to present to the Royal Society etc. A wiki that has the WHOLE climate skeptics community behind it. That would be a real gift to our children, rather than lots of comments about how dreadful this is, that don’t find ways to fight back. I still have my “seed” wiki available.

    Hey, Exxon (or some Daddy Warbucks), pony up!

    If not, maybe WUWT will allow Lucy (in conjunction with Pam & other high-quality posters) to create a WUWT sister-site consisting of topic-sorted extracts of the best (in their opinion) posts and comments made on WUWT, plus links.

  96. The stupidity of most political leaders in the Uk and elsewhere is mind boggling. Ideology and political correctness consistently trump rational thought and reasoning. The greens are literally leading us back into the Dark Ages.

  97. My family and I left England in 1973, after seeing the writing on the wall and after suffering power cuts duting the Miners Strike. We decided to become Canadians ,perhaps one of the more astute decisions to go to an oil rich country.It is unlikely that any Canadian Federal decision will follow that of the U.K. on carbon emissions.People in the Developed World will react as electricity prices jump and periods of blackouts occur in the future, forcing politicians to reconsider. Already there is general disbelief in the public [seniors through to schoolchildren] about global warming.I have a lot more faith in people’s commonsense than in the future value of my U.K. pensions.

  98. Andrew30 says:
    May 15, 2011 at 7:36 pm
    [Why does this declaration remind me of :“Peace in our time”——-The targets will not be met and they will not be in any position to recover quickly when stark reality makes ashes of the hoped for plan. They are not thinking, they are hopeing.]
    —————————————————————————–
    Andrew30. Sometimes one has to go right to the bottom before one can return. I think that Britain has to do that. It has too much socialist baggage, too many bludgers and far too many Fwits to recover at present. Sad ain’t it.

    Douglas

  99. TomRude says: “…The UK will see civil unrest like they have never known.”

    The government may be forced to request deployment of EU shock troops to restore order. With great reluctance, of course. [wink-wink][nudge-nudge]

  100. I think I’ll continue prayer’s for the USA, not the UK. Those that delay facing the inevitability of the growing energy crunch by holding fast to their oil dependency come what may (and this is unrelated to AGW!!!), are committing themselves to forever playing catchup as we experience a global realignment of economies and innovation. Good luck those of you in the USA, you’re going to need it, and a whole lot more.

  101. ? do gooses migrate if they do it is worse than we thought because we have to many gooses in Australia in charge of our GOVT at the moment . god bless we will need every sane person to fight this takeover by the watermelon heads

  102. When the ultimate ice age returns (nothing can stop it), the UK is one of the nations on the Earth without much land to migrate their population to. Here in the USA we can shift south and also onto our continental shelves. Not sure what happens to the UK next time around on this planets repeating ice ages.

    I find that ironic. Now that type of climate change will indeed be bothersome.

  103. Here’s why you don’t want one-world government. Let smaller political units make stupid decisions like this and then let people learn from those mistakes. Otherwise everyone suffers when idiots are in charge.

  104. A WARNING FROM BRITAIN

    Let this be a warning for all those concerned about their future and the well-being of their family – this is what WILL HAPPEN if you let the eco-nutcases gain power over you.

    One of our greatest problems is that the British political system is totally out of touch with the public the politicians say they represent. Parliament is so corrupt that it allows itself to be hijacked by pressure groups and lobbyists. I don’t recall Greenpeace standing for election and defending their policies, yet they are allowed to write a large part of this highly-destructive legislation.

    Notice that there has been no scientific justification for these proposals from any politician, just the usual declarations about how we are all heading for some sort of “green” low-carbon paradise. For the record, none of this “low carbon” science stacks up, and this is what will happen to the global atmospheric temperature if Britain were to reduce its carbon dioxide –

    By 2100:
    If Britain had a 20% reduction = 348/1,000,000ºC (348 millionths of a ºC)
    If Britain had a 100% reduction = 1738/1 000 000 ºC (1738 millionths of ºC)

    The right-wing rags are running the story for their beloved Tory mates in the manner they are told to do by the lying scum of a press department in number ten, who are tainted by allegations of phone-tapping and God knows what other crimes.

    The agenda seems to be to ensure that loyal Tory voters understand that “their government” has listened to their concerns and is tackling the problem head on.

    The truth is the only reason this garbage is being mooted is because they have no real policies to ensure Britain gets back on its feet other than to slash and burn. The desire to release the state from all but the most serious of controls over the likes of defence and education are what drives them on. Welfare is seen not as a support system for the poor but as a needless drain on the middle classes which they can well do without, as they won’t attack their pals in the City.

    They are floundering because they also believed they would waltz into Westminster with the blessing of the whole nation behind them instead of being saddled with the yellow turncoats of the Liberal Democrats. But like true blue Tories, they are making the most of the opportunity to gerrymander Britain’s voting to allow them a bigger percentage of winnable votes and seats within a smaller house, whilst eliminating one part of the left wing by fighting against any reform of the voting system to make it actually represent what the voters want.

    Unfortunately, what the voters want and need is not understood by the multi-millionaires who now sit upon their thrones of office. Politicians honestly believe in what they are doing is right because people voted for them.They believe this, despite admitting that what people were voting for was being abandoned before a single vote was cast.

    Tory leaders including the high-and-mighty Chancellor (that sneering creep George Osborne whose entire work experience was folding towels in Selfridges) were at the same time ploughing through their own manifesto deciding what promises they could get rid of without harming their core ideals of getting rid of the welfare state and the NHS “burdens”.

    It’s time the people got what they deserved and voted for, this government was elected on a mandate by both parties promising a “change in politics. It has been over a year now, and the only thing that has changed is the amount of people now worried about their jobs in the future.

    The snouts are still very much buried in the toughs at the top of the bankers’ chain while the EU is getting more power on a daily basis because of the weakness of the capitulating gerrymandering slime-bags who are looking to secure their own children’s future in a government position within the Federal Republic of Europe.

    They want “change” in the education system so that things “change back” to the old style of the rich going to University while the poor can re-invent themselves as under-educated drones.

    They want “change” in labour laws to allow them to use the reckless and feckless dole yobs as cheap labour to clean up the country lanes and town streets because councils can no longer afford to employ people to do the job properly.

    They want to “change” the way we see local Councillors some of whom do a good job but by starving the council of funds their hope is we the public will throw them out and vote in more coalition partners for them to manipulate.

    They advocate “change” in the NHS so that their pals in the city insurance groups can move in and take over and run it for massive profits.

    They want “change” to the electoral system so they have fewer seats to defend in a gerrymandered parliament which shifts the power to a more right wing voting élite in each constituency.

    Another “change” they want is to the armed forces which they want to hand over lock stock and barrel to the new European army.

    What change would I like?

    I would like a change of attitude by the people of Britain to realise that ALL THESE BASTARDS LIE, only some more than others. I would like people to see what direction within Europe these traitors are set upon, which is the destruction of the term “British” when it comes down to parliament. These millionaire playboys are not capable of defending the once-Great British Public, nor do they have a mandate from anyone other than those feckless, chinless, wonders who think lying cheating fraudsters are the best people to run a country.

  105. A WARNING FROM BRITAIN

    Let this be a warning for all those concerned about their future and the well-being of their family – this is what WILL HAPPEN if you let the eco-nutcases gain power over you.

    One of our greatest problems is that the British political system is totally out of touch with the public the politicians say they represent. Parliament is so corrupt that it allows itself to be hijacked by pressure groups and lobbyists. I don’t recall Greenpeace standing for election and defending their policies, yet they are allowed to write a large part of this highly-destructive legislation.

    Notice that there has been no scientific justification for these proposals from any politician, just the usual declarations about how we are all heading for some sort of “green” low-carbon paradise. For the record, none of this “low carbon” science stacks up, and this is what will happen to the global atmospheric temperature if Britain were to reduce its carbon dioxide –

    By 2100:
    If Britain had a 20% reduction = 348/1,000,000ºC (348 millionths of a ºC)
    If Britain had a 100% reduction = 1738/1 000 000 ºC (1738 millionths of ºC)

    The right-wing rags are running the story for their beloved Tory mates in the manner they are told to do by the lying scum of a press department in number ten, who are tainted by allegations of phone-tapping and God knows what other crimes.

    The agenda seems to be to ensure that loyal Tory voters understand that “their government” has listened to their concerns and is tackling the problem head on.

    The truth is the only reason this garbage is being mooted is because they have no real policies to ensure Britain gets back on its feet other than to slash and burn. The desire to release the state from all but the most serious of controls over the likes of defence and education are what drives them on. Welfare is seen not as a support system for the poor but as a needless drain on the middle classes which they can well do without, as they won’t attack their pals in the City.

    They are floundering because they also believed they would waltz into Westminster with the blessing of the whole nation behind them instead of being saddled with the yellow turncoats of the Liberal Democrats. But like true blue Tories, they are making the most of the opportunity to gerrymander Britain’s voting to allow them a bigger percentage of winnable votes and seats within a smaller house, whilst eliminating one part of the left wing by fighting against any reform of the voting system to make it actually represent what the voters want.

    Unfortunately, what the voters want and need is not understood by the multi-millionaires who now sit upon their thrones of office. Politicians honestly believe in what they are doing is right because people voted for them.They believe this, despite admitting that what people were voting for was being abandoned before a single vote was cast.

    Tory leaders including the high-and-mighty Chancellor (that sneering creep George Osborne whose entire work experience was folding towels in Selfridges) were at the same time ploughing through their own manifesto deciding what promises they could get rid of without harming their core ideals of getting rid of the welfare state and the NHS “burdens”.

    It’s time the people got what they deserved and voted for, this government was elected on a mandate by both parties promising a “change in politics. It has been over a year now, and the only thing that has changed is the amount of people now worried about their jobs in the future.

    The snouts are still very much buried in the toughs at the top of the bankers’ chain while the EU is getting more power on a daily basis because of the weakness of the capitulating gerrymandering slime-bags who are looking to secure their own children’s future in a government position within the Federal Republic of Europe.

    They want “change” in the education system so that things “change back” to the old style of the rich going to University while the poor can re-invent themselves as under-educated drones.

    They want “change” in labour laws to allow them to use the reckless and feckless dole yobs as cheap labour to clean up the country lanes and town streets because councils can no longer afford to employ people to do the job properly.

    They want to “change” the way we see local Councillors some of whom do a good job but by starving the council of funds their hope is we the public will throw them out and vote in more coalition partners for them to manipulate.

    They advocate “change” in the NHS so that their pals in the city insurance groups can move in and take over and run it for massive profits.

    They want “change” to the electoral system so they have fewer seats to defend in a gerrymandered parliament which shifts the power to a more right wing voting élite in each constituency.

    Another “change” they want is to the armed forces which they want to hand over lock stock and barrel to the new European army.

    What change would I like?

    I would like a change of attitude by the people of Britain to realise that ALL THESE BASTARDS LIE, only some more than others. I would like people to see what direction within Europe these traitors are set upon, which is the destruction of the term “British” when it comes down to parliament. These millionaire playboys are not capable of defending the once-Great British Public, nor do they have a mandate from anyone other than those feckless, chinless, wonders who think lying cheating fr@udsters are the best people to run a country.

  106. As a brit i’m deeply worried, yet not suprised.

    The political class in this country are incompetent in the extreme- as a canny poster pointed out above- kick out the tory/lib and you’re left with labour.

    It’s hobson’s choice- the UK’s royally screwed- last one out turn off the light-s oh wait, you won’t have too as there won’t be enough electricity to power a light.

  107. Brown Menace…
    Red Menace…
    Yellow Menace…
    Green Menace…

    That’s Global Menace Change for you! :-)

  108. Right that’s it I’m packing my bags and looking for a stone to crawl under to wait for the lights to go out!
    James Bull

  109. Ross says:”… I have never understood how the fanatics in the Green movement can push for heat pumps and electric cars but don’t want any extra electricity production to run them…”

    …It’s called “energy rationing” – hence the “smart meters” being forced on the British by law.

  110. Chris huhme is under investigation today for potentially getting someone to admit they were driving instead of him when a speeding offence was committed. Convenient? So he might go and it will all lose momentum. Alternatively, it will only take the power going off for a few nights for the British public to suddenly become very interested in climate science.

  111. So those living in the UK can look forward to a period of massive de-industrialisation, regularly punctuated by brownouts and blackouts.

    I suppose this is the final death throes of empire – a desire by the ‘elite’ to utterly destroy any semblance of economic well-being in the name of a fraudulent goofy theory called AGW.

    I emigrated from the UK when Harold Wilson was prime minister, as part of the massive brain drain of the time. This stupity will shortly precipitate Brain Drain Part 2.

  112. Let us not forget it was CRISPIN TICKELL who persuaded Margaret Thatcher. She may then have used AGW in a political way, but that is another matter.

  113. We will see how it all works out.

    There will have to be a couple of breakthoughs in EV technology and in the cost of installing heatpumps before us Brits will buy them in quantity, for instance. You cannot pass a law that makes the sun fail to come up in the morning.

    I suspect us poor Brits will have a lot of other more pressing concerns than our carbon footprints to worry about during the course of the next decade.

  114. The trouble with electric cars and heat pumps is that they are no more efficent than the current technology.

    Electric cars that use fossil electricity are slighhtly less efficient that a diesel car, except perhaps when city driving – but not city driving in the winter, because you will drain the battery inside ten miles by just trying to keep warm and demisted.

    Heat pumps are technically more efficient, but since you have already wasted 60% of your energy in electrical production, it is actually more efficient to use a gas heater.

    So why not cut out the fossil electricity and go for renewables? Well, as your other thread pointed out, the wind, wave and solar can disappear for weeks on end, and millions of people will die in the meantime. Even tidal power goes on strike twice or four times a day, depending on the layout of pools; and during neap tides, overall production is cut by two thirds.

    Message to Mr Hune, the loon, M.P.
    Your policy could work, Mr Hune, but only if you go 100% nuclear.

    .

  115. Dave says:
    May 16, 2011 at 1:32 am
    Let us not forget it was CRISPIN TICKELL who persuaded Margaret Thatcher. She may then have used AGW in a political way, but that is another matter.
    ——————————————————————————
    Yes Dave let us not forget Crispin Tickell. He hung around for a lot longer than Margaret and it seems that had a somewhat different agenda.

    Douglas

  116. Catherine says:
    May 16, 2011 at 12:04 am

    I see you Brits are going down the long, tortured road to hell, as opposed to doing it quickly. An earlier suggestion I gave in some other context would certainly apply here:

    You MUST do what the Irish did in their last general election to Fianna Fail – politically EVISCERATE all of your other parties and turn them into rumps, whilst voting for UKIP or some similar new Tory type of party that does not play go-along-to-get-along like this twit Cameron does with Labour and the LibDems. Cameron is like some of our own establishment Republicans, whom we call RINOs (Republicans in Name Only). Cameron is a Tory in name only. He disgraces the legacy of his Tory predecessors (such as Thatcher and Disraeli) with his squishy, accommodate-the- greens politics. Britain will return to the conditions of the mid-1960s (or worse) created by its Labour government if its politicians are allowed to implement this folly.

  117. And there is political spin to this.

    The energy minister, Mr Hune is an uber-Green, as is the Guardian (Grauniad) newspaper.

    Mr Hune is being attacked by his aggrieved ex-wife, who wants to end his career by making allegations of a criminal motoring offence.

    Mr Hune wants some good PR at this time, and so urges the Grauniad newspaper to write something nice about him.

    Like good poodles, the Grauniad complies, because 99.5% of Grauniad income comes from government advertising.

    Mr Hune basks in the limelight, and sticks two fingers up at his ex-wife.

    Ex-wife fights back with a taped conversation in which Mr Hune incriminates himself.

    Conversely, The Times says that business leaders have warned they will pull out of the UK if this bill goes through, and so they have thrown the ball back into Hune’s court.

    This is the problem with UK politics. Everyone is doing the best for themselves, rather than for the people or the nation.

    .

  118. Retired Engineer says:
    May 15, 2011 at 1:56 pm

    “You get what you vote for…..”

    Unfortunately RE, all three ‘major’ parties subscribe to the same orthodoxy.

    I’m a member of UKIP, the only sensible party out there – acorn-small at the moment but I’m hoping for bigger things. It will probably take this self-imposed disaster to wake up the electorate.

  119. My form Master’s favorite comment to our class of twelve year olds, form 3 are
    Illiterate, inarticulate, dumb,and solid ivory from the neck upwards!
    A very appropriate comment for most Government Ministers.

  120. I was a life-long Conservative voter, but no longer. I now vote UKIP, which reflects my views both on Europe and climate change/energy policy.
    I’m not sure if any new announcements will make a great deal of difference. The damage was already done by the lunatic Climate Change Bill (passed, ironically, when there was snow on the ground in London, the first time in October for many years).

    Several commenters mentioned that all the major parties are equally deluded. That may not be true. Many senior Conservatives are sceptical, including Margaret Thatcher. before last year’s elections, when the Conservatives were well ahead in the polls, I hoped that a Conservative government might start to return, however slowly, to sanity. Unfortunately the Conservatives failed to secure a working majority in Parliament, resulting in a coalition with the Liberal Democrats, who are the most deluded of the three major parties.
    We therefore ended up with a Lib Dem, Chris Huhne, in charge of energy and climate change policy. Now that’s what I call a real man-made climate change disaster!
    However, it seems that Huhne’s past may be catching up with him. He may even end up in jail.
    I was once proud to be British. But no longer. Truly, the lunatics have taken over the lunatic asylum.
    Chris

  121. For Australians reading this blog:

    Here’s a copy of an e mail I received today
    A group set up with Allen Jones as patron and some very eminent advisors including Warwick Hughes
    And another media personality Andrew Bolt
    I heartily endorse the site; it’s time to get the message that people like Warwick have been researching for so long before the public and into the media

    so I hope you can donate and encourage this effort

    and here’s the e mail

    It’s time: an opportunity to support true scientists presenting real-world climate science to inform the public.

    http://www.galileomovement.com.au

    7:10am Tuesday morning, May 17th, and Wednesday, May 18th tune into radio 2GB, Sydney: http://www.2gb.com

    16 May, 2011
    Hi,
    We’re delighted to be able to introduce you to the web site of the newly-formed Galileo Movement (www.galileomovement.com.au). The principal aim of this Movement is to first win the battle against the currently threatened tax on carbon dioxide and then to win the war against any drive for ever putting a price on it.
    From recent public polls it is obvious that the majority of Australians are opposed to this tax and we believe you are probably part of that majority.
    Our efforts are non-political as there are politicians in all parties who need to be convinced of the futility of taxing a beneficial trace gas in the atmosphere. So many people still think that carbon dioxide is a harmful pollutant; we need your help to educate these people that this is not so! We have strong connections to excellent scientific and other advisers worldwide. We’re ready.
    How can you help? Well, on the web site there is a printable flyer which you can print and distribute into letter boxes, at bus stops, shopping centres and railway stations; it is at http://www.galileomovement.com.au/threat_freedom.php#O and click on “flyer”.
    More importantly, we intend to run a major, national, professionally-managed campaign to gain access to significant members of the mass media (print journalists, radio and TV personalities) who need to understand that the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) has been spreading truly false information. This campaign will be costly, so we are appealing to you and all like-minded people to make a contribution towards this effort. You will note from our web site that virtually all our efforts are voluntary; there are some minor costs in maintaining formal financial records and in producing and maintaining the web site. Once we have won the war, any remaining funds are destined to go to the Royal Flying Doctor Service.
    Please distribute this email widely to make people aware of http://www.galileomovement.com.au as this may be our last opportunity to unite to defeat this negative, economic and socially life-changing legislation. It is time to act: “The triumph of evil requires only for good men (and women) to do nothing”.
    Thank you,

    John Smeed, Director
    Case Smit, Director
    Malcolm Roberts, Project Manager
    P.S. Our apologies if you receive more than one copy of this email.
    P.P.S. Please let us have your suggestions for enhancing our web site.
    P.P.P.S. Listen to Australia’s most influential radio personality Alan Jones of Radio 2GB (www.2gb.com), and Patron of the Galileo Movement, who will be interviewing distinguished American meteorologist Professor Lindzen at 7:10am Tuesday (May 17th) and at 7:10am on Wednesday, The Galileo Movement’s voluntary Project Manager, Malcolm Roberts

    Malcolm Roberts
    BE (Hons), MBA (Chicago)
    Fellow AICD, MAIM, MAusIMM, MAME (USA), MIMM (UK), Fellow ASQ (USA, Aust)

    http://www.conscious.com.au

    My personal declaration of interests is at:

    http://www.conscious.com.au/__documents/additional%20material/Personal%20declaration%20of%20interests.pdf

    (manually go to http://www.conscious.com.au and look for ‘Summaries’ and then click on ‘Aims, background and declaration of interests …’)

    180 Haven Road
    Pullenvale QLD 4069
    Phone:
    Home 07 3374 3374
    Mobile 04 1964 2379
    E-mail: catalyst@eis.net.au

    Please note: Apart from suburb and state, my contact details are not for publication nor broadcasting and are provided only for your own personal use to respond.

    For care to be effective, care needs to be informed

  122. IMHO, for fear of offending their green lobbyists and the corrupt so-called UK science establishment which includes many powerful individuals and organisations, the political parties in the UK have not dared announce that they will be getting twelve new nuclear electricity-generating plants operational as soon as they can to replace the old coal-fired plants which now carry almost all of the generating load and will be phased out in the near future as the reach the end of their economic life. The windpower industry will collapse under the weight of it’s own subsidies, inherent engineering problems and the public’s response to the visual and aural vandalism of their much-loved countryside, the solar industry will see the disappearance of ‘solar farms’ as they are dismantled and the components sold off become an economically viable, rational and unsubsidised individual units installed on privately owned homes as a supplementary source of energy to boost domestic water heating. Once a number of the coming nuclear power stations are on line to the power grid, sanity will, I hope, return and the discredited Green Socialists will melt away as the madness and non-viability of their chosen path for the population is fully revealed.

  123. UK is turning into such a Catalogue of Fail, you don’t know where to start.
    There’s such a fantastic irony even in the photo used (turbines vs a wheatfield), as the UK’s largest bio-ethanol factory is (temporarily) closing due to the high price of its feedstock (yes, it uses wheat).

    http://www.fwi.co.uk/Articles/2011/05/13/126776/Rising-grain-prices-force-Ensus-plant-to-close.htm

    Then, quick calculations coupled with a modicum of knowledge will (should) tell anyone what problems this policy is leading us into.
    Especially- the UK grid trundles along at about 40GW and can peak at about 60GW, as it did this winter (wholesale electricity prices actually reached 20 times retail prices) To replace the UK’s 30 million cars with EVs will create a demand of 60GW (assuming they spend 12 hours driving and 12 hrs per day re-charging). If they all try to tap into ‘cheap/off peak’ electricity through the night, demand will hit 120GW from (say) midnight till 6AM
    That is 3 times the rated capacity of the present grid.
    Heatpumps…
    A well insulated UK house will use 100kWh per day in the winter. If that came from a heat pump with an efficiency of 4 (that is ‘pushing it’), demand will be a constant 1kW per house and multiplied by 30 million houses equal to another 30GW demand on the grid.
    Basically, they are asking for a UK National Grid that is rated at between 120 and 180GW, up from its present capacity of between 40GW (normal running) and 60GW (absolute peak)

    Where is it all coming from and what happens if/when the thing falls down. (Literally, there are wooden poles carrying power across my land that are at least 50 years old, how long do these things last for?)
    There will be no light, no heat and no transport. (There will be no heat because a precondition on installing a heat pump is the removal from houses of conventional heating sources)

    And these numpties keep on paying themselves more and more…

    http://www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/2011/05/public-sector-pay-rises-still-beating-private-sector/

    What planet are they on?

  124. I am seriously considering a public suicide in parliament square to show my dissapointment at this latest nonsense.

    I am not an engineer or chemist, so can anyone out there advise me which method of suicide has the highest carbon footprint? may as well go out with some style….

  125. It appears that the person Mr Huhne asked to take his speeding fine instead of him was his ex-wife. The Telegraph seem to have a transcript of a telephone conversation where he says that there is no reason for the story to come out unless she makes it do so.

    There is now a police investigation because a Labour MP has made a complaint to the police. The problem is that the former Mrs Huhne has now gone all quiet about it all, maybe she is worried that she will end up being prosecuted as she said she was the driver involved in speeding, when it was not true.

    I sincerely hope that Huhne is found guilty of this offence and goes to prison, loses his seat in parliament and we never hear from him again. He is a thoroughly bad and nasty piece of work.

  126. This insanity will guarantee a collapse of the ‘conservative’ vote’ and puts into perspective the vehement anti AV, (Alternative Vote) referendum just held by the government. A collapse of the conservative vote will enable parties such as UKIP; the Unite Kingdom Independent Party to finally have a say in the running of the country and hopefully enable the UK to leave what is called by many , the EUSSR. with its undemocratic penchant for making new and repressive law and for spending our money. In Brussels they have a library filled with books promoting the EU. Apparently the average cost per loan is in the region of £450 per book!
    The UK already pays £9 billion a year for membership for which there is little or no benefit.
    There is certainly increasing anger and a movement against the absurd and now pretty well busted campaign for AGW or even the catastrophic effects of increasing Co2. Unfortunately, politicians are not really interested in what the people they represent think or want. It is all to do with ambition and money. You would be surprised how many UK politicians have a vested interest, or control of the proliferating ‘climate change’ companies; most of which have the main aim of making money.

  127. >>> Pay gap accellerating to Victorian levels.

    Yes, but I predicted and wrote about this back in 2000. Any sentinent being would have understood that if you import 2 million poverty-stricken workers into a country, that the pay of manual workers would plummet. And this will never affect the rich, because we are not importing economists, politicians, managing directors or BBC correspondents, but competitors for builders, drivers and cleaners who will undercut the pay-rate of any manual job. But why did this happen, when the results were obvious?

    Same goes for AGW. The results of putting up the energy and production costs of all UK products, is the decimation of any (remaining) manufacturing jobs in the UK. So why would any sentinent being want to do this? Do they hate the British worker so much, that they wish to exterminate them? China wants to be more competative and increase employment in manufacturing, while the UK wants to destroy the economy. You have to wonder what the rationale of these people is. Are they mad, or bad?

    .

  128. E.on (A German power company with a large UK customer base) are offering to fit PV solar panels to customers houses for a one-off payment of £99. How is this largesse paid for?

    “You’ll need to sign a lease agreement to keep the solar panels on the roof for 25 years and 3 months and for our partners to receive the Government subsidy payments to cover the cost of the installation.” – From the E.on website.

    So this is green jobs? Take our taxes and send them to a German company.

    Robin

  129. Dean Morrison says:
    May 15, 2011 at 1:53 pm
    “This is very good news indeed, as it will drive investment in the technologies of the future, rather than those of the Victorian era, such as the internal combustion engine and coal and steam driven electricity generation. It’s the countries that lag behind that will have to import these new technologies from us, and they are the ones that will be economically disadvantaged.”
    /////////////////////////////////////
    If ever there was a technology of the Victorian era, it is windmills. Whoops, my mistake, this technology is pre-Victorian era and was abandoned because of its inefficiencies.
    It is almost inevitable that the UK will not be at the forefront of new technologies and will be purchasing these from abroad, most probably China thereby helping China’s economy expand.

  130. You can stop praying now. They’re already back-tracking. They know it’s impossible on current technology never mind impractical in economic terms. So if other European countries ‘backslide’ on their emissions targets, which they will of course, then it’s OK for the UK to backslide too. You have to laugh. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13409404

  131. How can they be so stupid?!
    Don’t they know what they are doing?!
    This is madness and it will destroy britain!!!!
    etc etc…

    vs

    It’s all part of Agenda 21 as per their own documents.

    I mean, c’mon people ….. WAKE UP!

  132. Phil-M at 12.36 said:

    Brits. We have an opportunity to make our views known! (etc. etc).

    Thanks Phil. This is the contribution I have placed on that website (http://www.redtapechallenge.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/environment)

    Facts are hard things, I know, but you should only, as a Government, base your strategies and actions on known facts. Here are some:
    1. The earth has not warmed for 15 years
    2. Many distinguished climatologists believe that we are in for an extended cooling period
    3. The IPCC has said, in an official document, that the purpose of its climate change agenda is not to prepare the world for a warmer climate but to facilitate the distribution of wealth.
    4. Huge, natural changes occur in the earth’s climate over hundreds of thousands of years.There is no hard evidence that the increase in the trace gas CO2 will lead to an increase in temperature – indeed, currently, it seems to be having the opposite effect. We cannot change these long-term climatic variations, only mitigate their effect on the biosphere.
    5. Every climate change skeptic I have spoken to or read about believes also that we should seek to reduce manmade emissions, especially particulates, but that this reduction should be undertaken as part of good housekeeping NOT as part of a swingeing exercise based on an unsubtantiated Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming scenario.

    Please throw out this socialist agenda and appoint an environmental minister who actually understands the science and who will at last give the other side a proper hearing….

    Fellow Wattsupwiththatters, whether you think it makes a difference or not, you will only be able to change things by taking action. So take it.

  133. Usually well-informed MSM journos are now saying that the new deal is a payoff to keep the Tory party’s coalition partner the Lib-Dems ‘sweet’, as the Lib Dems lost 10% of their support in the recent local council elections due to too close an adherence, in the view of many of their supporters, to Tory policy. The Torys are keen on sneaking the acceptance of nuclear power stations in quietly, after ‘Buff’ Huhne is reassured that these plants will withstand an earthquake of 8.9. Earth scientists inform us that the likelihood of an earthquake of this magnitude in the UK is nil, but the reassurance process will delay the introduction another year, by which time this current deal will have been allowed to slide into oblivion.
    An emerging problem on another front for Mr Huhne, the climate minister and arch-warmist, is his alleged dishonesty for seemingly pressuring his wife to accept his speeding-ticket ‘points’ to ensure he would not be stripped of his driving licence before fleeing the matrimonal nest for another woman.
    As the truth begins to emerge, Huhne is not only a scientific illiterate, it seems he is also a serial liar and a bully.

  134. Danny Lee says:
    May 16, 2011 at 4:32 am

    “I am seriously considering a public suicide in parliament square to show my disappointment at this latest nonsense….”

    Don’t do it Danny – the announcement’s just a joke!

    It is a joke isn’t it…..must be joke…..got to be a joke….surely!

  135. It is tragic to see the valor displayed during the Battle of Britain going for naught. What the Nazis failed at, the Greens are set to accomplish.

  136. Here’s an idea.

    Our betters (this is the UK, remember) demand that we suck up “sweeping changes to […our…] domestic life”.

    We say, “Sure thing, as long as we can first take your passports and then flay you alive when the lights go out. And that shameless snake-oil salesman Timothy Yeo is first. Deal ?”

    Think it’ll run ?

  137. Canny.

    “The targets will be reviewed if European nations backslide on their own climate commitments.”

    There’s the get-out clause. I think we can safely assume that a lot of backsliding will take place.

  138. (Forgot to mention for those unfamiliar with Yeo that he is the UK’s very own feeble version of Al Gore).

  139. And in the independent

    http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/campaigners-welcome-emission-pledge-2284487.html

    “Greenpeace said a “strong intervention” by Prime Minister David Cameron had resolved a fraught battle within the Cabinet over the merits of the far-reaching deal to cut emissions by 50% on 1990 levels by 2025.”

    50% on 1990 levels by 2025 LOL. The last time they put some “climate change” legislation through parliament three MPs voted against it.

  140. Future historians may record our civilization is the first to make a conscious decision to fall into the rubbish heap.

  141. If you don’t prebook significantly ahead with a load of Ts and Cs, taking the train is nearly as expensive as flying. Petrol is already through the roof (worse than the US). I guess the implication is, much lower mobility in general unless it involves bicycles or walking.

  142. Danny Lee says:
    May 16, 2011 at 4:32 am

    Maybe going out via extreme flatulence? Not sure if it is possible for that to be fatal.

  143. David Waring says:
    May 16, 2011 at 10:09 am

    Here’s an idea.

    Our betters (this is the UK, remember) demand that we suck up “sweeping changes to […our…] domestic life”.

    We say, “Sure thing, as long as we can first take your passports and then flay you alive when the lights go out. And that shameless snake-oil salesman Timothy Yeo is first. Deal ?”

    Think it’ll run ?

    You are giving them a choice?

    The “sweeping changes in domestic life” are 10’s of 000’s dead last winter and many more to come.

    My fuel bills came a week or so ago and I can safely say that were I on a fixed income there would be no way I could afford to pay. Next winter, with my fuel cut off, I would be dead. Keeps the numbers in fuel poverty down of course, can’t complain or or be a statistic if you’re dead. Welcome to “green” world.

  144. >>Nuke
    >>Future historians may record our civilization is the first to make
    >>a conscious decision to fall into the rubbish heap.

    Not quite.

    Stilicho thought it would be a good idea to give money to illegal immigrants, who were causing chaos in the land, to stop them attacking the local population. The end result? The downfall of the entire Western Roman Empire, and the ruination and deaths of millions of people.

    America – Europe – you have been warned.

    .

  145. There is a new offence in law in the UK called ‘Corporate manslaughter’ whereby individual Company Directors can be prosecuted for company failures that lead to deaths. They can face imprisonment as well as fines.

    The result of the new UK ‘energy’ policy will be that thousands of elderly will die this coming winter because they cannot afford to keep warm. So the ministers (such as Chris Huhne) and the Prime minister can be prosecuted under this law. Mind you Mr Huhne may already be in prison for his criminal attempt to avoid penalty points for speeding by getting someone else to take the rap! Hey, is that right? The minster for saving the planet from the horrors of the internal combustion engine was caught speeding? On his bike?? Or perhaps it was an electric milk float.

  146. Douglas says:
    May 15, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    Jerome You are right about the UK and Europe but can you count on Joolya? She is hell bent on destroying Oz —-It will take a lot of bloodymindness od Aussies to boot her and her mob out.

    Douglas

    Too true. We can only hope the public sees some sense, but it’s a long shot!

  147. @Phillip Foster

    I don’t think you want to go there. They will be using such a new law to prosecute executives of oil companies, power companies, etc., not politicians.

  148. Most of this eco stuff is being carried out by commercial enterprises anyway. The £16bn is earmarked for the likes of the MOD. They just want the power payer/taxpayer to fork out more than once. It’s a huge ConGov, (Et all) scenario, for something that is still scientific debate. You can smell the bull, as we send aircraft to Libya to wreak havoc, both enviromentally, ecologically and whatever.

  149. Gentlemen, all is not lost. The Minister in charge (Huhne) is in trouble over a completely unrelated matter, and will hopefully soon be a fading nightmare.

    The UK Prime Minister David Cameron has already uttered the words “Full confidence” over the matter which is Westminster code-speak for “You’re history”. Without the chief fanatic at the helm, the proposals may be found unworkable sooner rather than later and quietly shelved. I hope.

  150. Conssesions have been made to large industry, Steel, chemicals etc, that will negate any increase in energy prices to retain their competitveness in European markets.

    This brings two points into consideration:
    1) The changes required to update the British energy suppy is going to be funded by the taxpayer with increased household energy costs. The projected figures are £1 per week on energy bills by 2020 for every household in the land.
    With the country in debt to the tune of £Trillions there is no currently available money to upgrade the system without further serious cuts to core services.

    2) The green agenda has been a tool to instigate the funding of the upgrade to the energy supply evidenced by the fact that big industry is going to be exempt from increased energy costs and Nuclear is going to be classed as renewable as far as subsidies are concerned, a conssesion that infuriates the environmentalists. The ammendents that will allow Britain to back out of its legal agreements if other European countries do not achieve similar commitments is the final assurance that will kill the green agenda. This is politics not religion, not science and deffinitely not environmentalism.

    What will be the outcome?

    The British taxpayer is going to fund a revitalisation of the energy production sector that will be building new Nuclear reactors. In a few years when the CAGW religion has been proven a false prophet the project will still be in effect and the green bandwaggon will realise how their cause has been taken over and abused by government to achieve its own ends.

    If there is a bandwaggon available and the crowds are cheering then the politicians will become involved but don’t be surprised when the carnival takes a different route than intended.

  151. This morning here in UK (17th May) both the Telegraph and the Mail have big front page stories about how Huhne is about to become an ex-politician as his ex-wife is going to stick the knife into him in court. Apparently she took the rap for the speeding offence which occurred whilst she was attending an official dinner somewhere – and her attendance is on record.

    The strange thing is that the BBC ‘News’ website carries no mention whatever of this story.

  152. Pray for Britain? Gladly. I’ll pray that their efforts are successful and the rest of the world will follow their example as soon as possible. If the indigenous populations of the world are saying that homes are changing in bad ways like never before (see this: http://www.350.org/en/about/blogs/vanishing-worlds ) , I’ll listen to them and do what I can to help them, not a bunch of angry, bickering, scientists. Why are you all so opposed to renewable energy? Coal and oil are bound to run out someday, and they’re dangerous and terrible for the environment no matter what you believe about global warming (think oil spills and mountaintop removal). Also, jobs in the coal industry have been in decline for a while now, so let’s create more new, safer jobs in renewable energy!

  153. c.s. says : “homes are changing in bad ways like never before” and “Why are you all so opposed to renewable energy?

    To put it very simply, the global temperature changes that your link refers to are natural, not man-made, and renewable energy is fine. What is objected to is economic destruction based on false premises.

    Yes, coal and oil (and gas) will run out someday, and this is something that should be addressed in its own right, not corrupted by ideology. Forcing the creation of “more new, safer jobs in renewable energy” comes at the cost of many more other jobs.

    http://www.juandemariana.org/pdf/090327-employment-public-aid-renewable.pdf

    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/spain/unemployment-rate

    Renewable energy will get used as soon as it is economically viable. Governments should be encouraging technological progress towards this, not mandating economic destruction.

  154. Jimbo says: May 15, 2011 at 2:34 pm
    Where will they get their electricity from in winter?

    Jimbo, you are not listening. Because of AGW there will be no winter.

  155. Thing is, tackling climate change IS popular in the UK . The government is listening to the majority on this issue. That’s democracy, and it’s also an answer to prayer for large chunks of the UK church. We’re praying for the US too…

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