California’s giant sucking sound

Time to leave California? Governor Moonbeam may be the best salesman Texas has. While there’s a state delegation in Texas (including former SFO mayor Gavin Newsom) trying to figure out why Texas is pulling business out of California (cue Ross Perot’s giant sucking sound) our governor turns up the volume.

Flashback:

While not the main theme at the moment (hostile state over-regulation of business is) the election reminder of “It’s the electricity, stupid” may someday be a yellow sticky note on some campaign consultant’s computer monitor.

WUWT reader DD More says:

Heard on the radio news this AM and looked it up.

California governor Jerry Brown is expected to sign legislation today requiring energy firms in California to generate 33 per cent of their energy from renewable sources by 2020, delivering one of the most ambitious renewable energy standards in the world.
http://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news/2042816/california-governor-rubberstamp-cent-renewable-energy-target

Will you Cali-guys be starting a poll to guess the date someone in the state gives the Steve Holliday speech?

Electricity consumers in the UK will need to get used to flicking the switch and finding the power unavailable, according to Steve Holliday, CEO of National Grid, the country’s grid operator. Because of a six-fold increase in wind generation, which won’t be available when the wind doesn’t blow, “The grid is going to be a very different system in 2020, 2030,” he told BBC’s Radio 4. “We keep thinking that we want it to be there and provide power when we need it. It’s going to be much smarter than that.

“We are going to change our own behaviour and consume it when it is available and available cheaply.”
http://opinion.financialpost.com/2011/03/05/lawrence-solomon-don’t-count-on-constant-electricity-under-renewable-energy-says-uk-electricity-ceo/

Texas has already dealt with the electrical issues of renewable energy:

We Spent Billions on Wind Power… and All I Got Was a Rolling Blackout

And, so far, California’s wind power doesn’t hold up so well:

The reality of wind turbines in California – video

About these ads

107 thoughts on “California’s giant sucking sound

  1. “We keep thinking that we want it to be there and provide power when we need it. It’s going to be much smarter than that.”

    Oh! Like a really clever hide-and-seek player.

  2. In an unreported bit, Jerry thinks he can get 10% of that figure by mandating that all Californians fart in bottles.

  3. Having committed massively to “clean” electricity, California will find itself without the fuel needed to drive to work, by failing to build plants to make alternative fuels.

    Non-OPEC oil peaked in 2010, having used up half its original endowment of 1,400 billion bbl of oil.

    Available Net Exports peaked in 2005, after deducting Chindia’s demand (China + India)

    See Westexas post after Crude Oil and Liquids Capacity Additions: 2011-2015 by Sam Foucher.

    The Available Net Export (ANE) trend is also very interesting. Here are 2002, 2005 and 2008 numbers for ANE (Global Net Exports not consumed by Chindia):

    2002: 34.8 mbpd
    2005: 40.8 (+5.3%/year)
    2008: 38.6 (-1.8%/year)

    (BP + Minor EIA input)

    As noted above, ANE increased at 5.3%/year from 2002 to 2005, but then fell at 1.8%/year from 2005 to 2008. Of course, we saw six straight years of year over year increases in annual oil prices from 2002 to 2008.

    If ANE had kept increasing at the 2002 to 2005 rate, then in 2008, ANE would have been 47.8 mbpd, versus the actual volume of 38.6 mbpd, a gap of over 9 mbpd, between what the non-Chindia import market was expecting to see at the 2002 to 2005 rate of increase, versus what was actually delivered.

    IMO, this provides pretty strong evidence that the Available Net Export shock to the system was a key trigger for the financial meltdown in the US. I suspect that Available Net Exports will be down to 27 to 30 mbpd range in 2015, unless we see a collapse in demand from the Chindia region.

    i.e. He projects Available Net Exports 34% to 25% down from the 2005 peak.

  4. Build more breeder reactors – problem solved. More power, more renewable.

    I’m sure that’s what they intend.

  5. Can anyone recommend a cheap reliable home generator for use in UK?
    Shares in candle makers are sure to rise.
    We will be known as the ‘dark age’ to our descendants for altogether different reasons from the original, both in a literal and metaphoric sense.

  6. The government may legislate or mandate anything. Mother Nature may not comply.

    Descartes: “I think, therefore I am.”
    Universe: “So ??”

    “Smart Grid” — One that does not work.

  7. Waivers will be available in exchange for political donations. It’s just another version of Obamacare.

  8. A gas or diesel generator for almost every home in most neighbourhoods is going to create a bigger pollution problem, lots of police will be required to crack down on people running them, except for rich people and Mexicans of course.

  9. California has the most ambitious plan? Then Ontario (province in Canada) has the second most ambitious. It wants to phase out coal plants (7 GW) and produce 20-25% of its energy from renewable sources. I don’t know how much sun there is in California, but much of Ontario – where renewable energy msut be built, because the southern part is too densely populated – is north of the 47th parallel, meaning less than 8 hours of sushine during winter. And never mind wind (unreliable) and hydro (indecently expensive to build).

  10. I think that CA should be forced to become an “energy island”. No exporting their pollution to other states. Make them live on what they generate. If they generate it and pay for it, who am I to argue. But export of stuff they do not want to other states around them is not in keeping with the spirit of the Sierra Club. On second thought, maybe it is since that spirit is “We got ours, you go suck wind.”

  11. “Because of a six-fold increase in wind generation, which won’t be available when the wind doesn’t blow, “The grid is going to be a very different system in 2020, 2030,” he told BBC’s Radio 4. “We keep thinking that we want it to be there and provide power when we need it. It’s going to be much smarter than that.”

    What is the percentage divergence between a ‘smart stupid’ and a ‘dumb stupid’ ?

    http://disasterplanningcenter.com/disaster-prevention/how-to-prevent-a-power-loss-during-a-disaster-and-restore-power-quickly/

  12. “We keep thinking that we want it to be there and provide power when we need it. It’s going to be much smarter than that.”

    How much smarter than it get from there?

  13. I live where I can watch a large fraction of the Tehachapi wind farm. 740 MW of new mills are being installed and brought online. It appears that that the new ones run about 2/3 as much as the earlier ones because they no longer have the best sites.

    Personally, I am assuming that the power will go off sometime in the future, and I have installed enough solar PV and battery and inverter to run the refrigerator when that happens. The PV panels are installed where the neighbors can’t see them so that when the power goes off, they are less likely to get stolen.

  14. Why is it that many of the folks left of center remind me of my 4 year old. He wishes the world is a certain way, and then proceeds to act as if the wish is true. When reality infringes upon his wonderful world, he is very angry and blames the nearest adult.

    This is exactly what the left does. They blame everyone except themselves for the unbelievably stupid acts they commit and never learn from their mistakes.

    On the bright side, my son will grow up. As clearly demonstrated by Gov. Moonbeam and his ilk, lefties never will…

  15. “We are going to change our own behaviour … ”

    No, Mr. Holliday. People like you are going to change our behaviour … at least, until and unless people like us find a way of getting rid of people like you.

    On a slightly surprising note, though, BBC World Service broadcast an edition of “One Planet” (still on the iplayer) which was surprisingly positive about thorium reactors. Look for “The Metal that May Save the World”.

  16. If this legistation stands up in the courts, I predict some really big coal fired plants being built on the Nevada side of the border. Moonbeam can claim victory because the plants aren’t IN California as the jobs march ever eastward.

  17. I heard that China, India, Russia, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Iran, ….and on….and on….and on

    We’re going to sign up for this too……..

    not

  18. Brown will have to give on his plans up when eventually he faces the hard reality. When he was governor in the 80s he caused terrible damage to California’s economy with his stubborn delay in giving green light to spraying with Malathion during the terrible Medfly infestation in San Joaquin and other valleys. The several months long embargo imposed on California fruit exports sent thousands of producers into bankruptcy.

    History has the nasty habit of repeating itself, but the second time does it as a tragic comedy.

  19. What a different world we would live in if Ross Perot had won. If we would of actually protected American jobs and decided that deficits do matter. Come to Michigan and drive around any industrial park and see the one out of three empty buildings. In some cases 50% empty. The surviving manufacturing businesses are on life support. Notice on the video the smug looks that Bill Clinton and George Bush give to Ross Perot. What a disaster both political parties have become. I have very little hope that my daughter who is graduating valedictorian this year will live in a better world than we did.

  20. Dr T G Watkins says:
    April 12, 2011 at 8:58 am
    “We will be known as the ‘dark age’ to our descendants for altogether different reasons from the original, both in a literal and metaphoric sense.”

    It will increase romance enormously. Maybe it is a secret plot by the government to resurrect the British birth rate. Maybe the plan is to take you back to the conditions of the 19th century slums. Merry Old England, after all.

  21. Anthony:

    Electricity consumers in the UK will need to get used to flicking the switch and finding the power unavailable, according to Steve Holliday, CEO of National Grid, the country’s grid operator.

    A case of making stuff up, I think. Notice that it is not a quote and I listened to what he did say on the BBC and the entire speech he gave that is referred to. What he had to say was interesting and quite startling in places but I think you can forget the “flicking the switch” stuff as he did not say that at all in either case. As far as journalism goes that piece is nothing to be proud of or be reliably informed by.

    Alex

  22. DaveR: What makes you think that had Perot won, he could have gotten the Republicans and Democrats in charge of congress to pass anything he proposed?

    As to the vacant buildings in Michigan, you can thank the unions for that. Open borders policies had nothing to do with it.

  23. DaveR says:
    April 12, 2011 at 9:57 am
    “What a different world we would live in if Ross Perot had won.” And please remember that he could have won had he not self-destructed. And Clinton was elected with just 43 percent of the popular vote. A third party can win in the US. If the Repubs put up another “compassionate conservative,” a Bob Dole, or a John McCain then a third party can win. Sarah Palin should keep her powder dry. Her negatives become positives in a three party race.

  24. lemoutongris
    Good news: Canada has hydropower.

    Canada, home to about 475 hydroelectric plants with a capacity of 70,000 MW, produces about 355 terawatt-hours of hydropower each year. But Canada’s untapped potential is far greater.

    According to a study commissioned by the Canadian Hydropower Association, Canada has 163,000 MW of untapped hydropower potential, more than twice the country’s existing hydropower capacity.

    Already, hydropower accounts for 60 percent of Canada’s electricity consumption.

    Bad news: Doctors are not the only ones gaming the system. Ontario’s electricity watchdog reports:
    By staying online, the generator would have collected $10,000 in revenue. But by shutting off, then back on, a qualifying generator gets about $50,000 in revenue. In a six-month period last year, the panel found 426 occasions when generators had shut down, then restarted in two hours or less. One generator was responsible for 336 of the shutdowns.

  25. That is not accurate (live now) it was live at 10 am today . . . at least I think that right.

  26. The sign that used to be posted outside Seattle requesting that the last one leaving please turn out the lights will need a bit of editing for California – there won’t be any lights to turn out.

  27. Texas has no state income tax and real-estate is much more affordable. That translates into employees needing less salary to maintain the same standard of living which in turn lowers payroll expense for the business as well as lowering the cost for factories and offices. Lower electricity cost is just icing on the cake. But for many Californians living in a state where every statewide political office is held by a Republican might be just too much to bear.

  28. DD More on March 24, 2011 at 9:42 am…on tips said “33%RES (electrical generation in CA)………….. to be signed by Gov. Brown.”

    It looks like we (Californians) get to learn from the UK on how to get energy storage in place. There is a meeting on the subject (April 28th) of energy storage and the 33%RES requirement coming up shortly at the California Energy Commission (CEC).

    Meeting Announcement http://www.energy.ca.gov/2011_energypolicy/notices/2011-04-28_IEPR_Energy_Storage.pdf

    And the agenda- http://www.energy.ca.gov/2011_energypolicy/documents/2011-04-28_workshop/2011-04-28_Agenda.pdf

    I think the presentation by Mark Rothlender (California Independent System Operator- the guys responsible for the grid) will be interesting.

  29. MarkW says:
    April 12, 2011 at 10:12 am

    DaveR: What makes you think that had Perot won, he could have gotten the Republicans and Democrats in charge of congress to pass anything he proposed?

    As to the vacant buildings in Michigan, you can thank the unions for that. Open borders policies had nothing to do with it.
    ============================================

    Depends on what policies you’re referencing. There are big three mfr. plants in foreign nations now.

  30. Do any big utilities actually own generation in California, or is all the generation owned by 3rd parties? Wasn’t that one of the problems in the summer of blackouts? This is pie in the sky, and it will be cold and dark or hot and dark, depending on where you live.

  31. starzmom:

    when the utilities owned a great share of their generating stations they became so irritated by the envirionmentalists industrial regulations that they sold off the stations that they could to various operating companies to get rid of the hassles.

    a while ago (during davis’s reign) california had a tremendous power shortage and it became apparent that from californias’ point of view this (allowing the generation capacity to leave the state) had been one of the major misteaks in californias history. it appears to have been a major contributer to davis’s impeachment.

    we saw electric bills skyrocket with older generation plants sitting idle because they did not pass xxxx polution requirements, we saw schools shut down for the day because of lack of power, we saw hospitals not being allowed to use their own diesel generators because of environmental regulations ………

    this brings rise to two questions:

    1. why hasn’t our state legislature nullified a great number of these enabling regulations….

    2. where in the he&& are the fruit flys in our time of need.

    C

  32. 33%? That’s no challenge!

    In 2020, the only power they’ll need will be one solar panel.

    It will power the answering machine.

    The answering machine will say; “you’ve reached the State of California. There’s no one here to take your call. If this is an emegergency . . .”

  33. I would be a little more cautious to criticize Jerry Brown for what’s going on in California. The state is basically ungovernable, with entrenched incumbents in the State House and a supermajority rule for budget ratifications.

    More than anything I would believe JB sees renewable energy as job creation. We need to get it done anyway, so why not now? Let’s hope nuclear is on the table before we become The Land Of The Giant Desk Fans.

    Actually, Jerry Brown looks like the only adult in the room these days.

    Are you guys really saying you miss Arnold?

  34. It’s hard to outdo Jerry for radical stupidity, but I have read the Gov. of Texas was bragging about the alternative energy projects in his state.
    Could it have been those wind turbines he is so proud of that caused the loss of electric capacity during an almost unprecedented cold snap in southern Texas?
    These politicians who claim to be fiscal conservatives and then support huge TAX and RATE payer subsidies for ‘green technologies’ are the worse kind of hypocrites.
    I’ll skip California AND Texas, thank you.

  35. Today is Tax day; well it is for those few of us who actually ARE taxpayers (USA/Cal) style.

    I was late to work today, as I had to stop by my Credit Union to get checks to send out to my favorite Uncle, and my favourite Moonbat. Well I don’t actually owe any taxes, as of today; in fact I already overpaid my taxes, for the 2010 Tax year.
    No I am not getting a refund either. Uncle Sam is going to swallow my refund, as an estimated down payment on taxes I might owe later on, as a result of my still being a working stiff taxpayer, ten years after I should have retired on my lowly accumulated pension funds.
    Well that (non) refund was not enough to satisfy my Uncle’s rapacious appetite for more slush fund money to pay out grants for people to look in mud for pollens, and bore holes in trees; but only on one side.
    So this morning I cleaned out every one of the accounts at my Credit Union to make up the difference between my greedy Uncle’s demands, and the not inconsiderable overpayment from last year.
    The only problem is that there wasn’t enough money in all of those accounts to satisfy the shortfall, so I had to borrow a considerable sum from the Credit Union. Well don’t worry, I only need it for about three days.

    That’s how long it takes to clear the market transaction which last week sold a portion of my retirement account assets, in order to pay the taxes, on having sold those retirement account assets.

    No I didn’t need those funds from my retirement account; as I said I have a full time salaried job.

    But you see, my greedy Uncle demands that I must sell part of my retirement nest egg every year; whether I need the money or not. Well not only don’t I need the money from those retirement funds, but I don’t even get any money from those funds; because every last cent of the withdrawal, goes to my spendthrift Uncle in taxes; I get not a brass razoo out of the deal.

    So if you are looking for me this afternoon, you need look no further than the local SJ TEA Party Tax rally, to tell our boy wonder Teleprompter Reader par excellence, that I really am T-axed E-nough A-lready.

    Well I have gotten used to the routine; in June, I will have anouther Credit Union Cleanout, and another “retirement” fund selloff, to pay more taxes.

    So no I am not amused by the antics of otherwise unemployed, and likely unemployable pseudo “scientists” who think that the taxpayers owe them a living pursuing non-productive enterprises.

    A report this morning says that the total outstanding Student Loan debt, now exceeds ALL outstanding Credit Card debt; and that the vast majority of that Student loan debt is for “courses” that are quite unlikely to lead to ANY career that can earn enough money to EVER pay off that student loan debt.

    Time to get real kiddies. Political “Science” and “Ethnic Studies” aka School of racism, may be fun for green yuppies; but how are you going to eat, without public (taxpayer) assistance ?

  36. I live in California and my frustration level with the RETARDED BOZOS in Sacramento is unreal. I can only assume that they are so blinded by their own world of liberal/environmental ideology, that they refuse to see the real world.

    “More than one in five (21%) of California small-business owners do not expect to be in business in California in three years, according to a recent survey by Small Business California, an advocacy group in San Francisco. …”

    http://jan.ocregister.com/2011/03/08/are-calif-businesses-closing-or-leaving/55995/

    When it comes to unemployment, California is #3 in the nation. We have a massive debt that is hanging over our heads and all the STUPID Democrats in Sacramento want to do is spend more money and raise taxes!!!

    California is going down the toilet and the left is flushing as fast as they can.

  37. MarkW says:
    April 12, 2011 at 10:12 am

    DaveR: What makes you think that had Perot won, he could have gotten the Republicans and Democrats in charge of congress to pass anything he proposed?

    As to the vacant buildings in Michigan, you can thank the unions for that. Open borders policies had nothing to do with it.

    The presidential position is so overrated it is ridiculous. All of America has been deceived into believing the only election that matters is the one for president. The reality is our lack of attention on our locally elected representatives has created “representative” bodies full of certifiable kooks bent on lifelong politicking and zero actual work to help the people. Most of these kooks are simply figureheads for their staffs of promoters and image consultants who do very little for our nation except suck up a salary and ensure they win again next term so they keep their job.

    The most insidious part of it all is how the entire system of competing political interests convinces all of America that there are only two parties to vote for, and only the presidential race is worth caring about, even though the president is only supposed to be an executive and third parties are necessary to force politicians to at the very least abandon their tried-and-true well-choreographed political theater.

    I simply don’t respect anyone who votes for one of the major parties, I can’t. These people are as deceived as any religious nut if they think they’re helping.

  38. Torgeir Hansson says:

    “More than anything I would believe JB sees renewable energy as job creation.”

    I suspect you want government to be the job “creator.” Read up on Bastiat’s broken glass fallacy. For every job created by the government, more than two private sector jobs are eliminated. Government job ‘creation’ actually destroys jobs.

    Government is not the solution, it is the main problem. As a California taxpayer, I resent paying almost 10% state income taxes, and almost 10% sales taxes. Other states have no income taxes and low sales taxes. It is no coincidence that those states are doing much better economically than The Peoples’ Soviet of California, run by equally clueless Democrat politicians. They are wrecking the state’s economy.

    Gov. Moonbeam has never held a real job in his life; he’s always fed at the public trough. He is controlled by the eco-lobby, and as this article makes crystal clear, Brown has no concept about how the real world works.

  39. California is not the only place having a giant sucking sound:
    The entire US has been vacuumed year-in/year-out.
    The lobbyists make sure that they have the ‘correct’ candidates to continue the process.
    Revolving door.

  40. How many do understand why all sorts of politicians love the idea of being able to tax carbon dioxide?

    Although in EU every politician is biased towards socialism, but it hold true though, that various, nefarious, carbon tax’s has been a “blessing” to further our, shall we say, lucrative social life style as we grow older, as in becoming retired from the work force at 45, 50, 55, 60 to 65, all depending on which country you live in and what type of work or service you’ve been in.

    For t’irty years income taxes has gotten lower. At the same time we’ve got unlimited sick days, five weeks paid vacation up to 30 then 6-7, after 40 7-8, and if you put in for military or police, or higher public, service you can retire at 55 with full pension benefits, but if not you can opt for early retirement at 55 for partial pension benefits (which is a hoot since partial is all things relative to your pay), most seem to go at 60 though (apparently they’re not boat and ship owners though.)

    Essentially, the old social(ist) based systems cost shit loads of cash to keep running and nobody really want to up the income taxes or direct cost for entrepreneurs and company owner which is, apparently, why carbon taxes is a “blessing”, what with it being an indirect cost for everyone, but still a direct income to the state(s) since we will never run out of carbon.

    To fill the state’s coffers with treasures from trade from goods and services has, apparently, very essentially, become a rather insane kind of logic compared to trading and taxing a necessary component to life.

    When in “Greece” be a Roman. :p

  41. I recall a news item a few years back from Spain. Something along the lines of “the future of Green energy is cold, slow, and dim”. I guess some lessons are never learned.

  42. It doesn’t take a climate scientist to figure out why companies are leaving California. It really boils down to two things. The first is that we tax the living crud out of businesses here. Most of my fellow brainless Californians have the attitude of yeah sure stick it to the rich. Well the rich eventually leave. The more we tax business the more they start thinking it may cost less to relocate. Once you pass that threshold its see you later probably never to return. It also makes other business less likely to consider coming to this state. If they do a cost review we don’t look so great. The other thing is regulations. Back in the 70’s I remember how bad the air was. It seemed like you could walk on it some days. I am not a granola crunching tree hugger freak but I can’t argue that at that point something desperately needed to be done. Something did get done. Many groups were formed and many years were spent pressuring the government to pass regulation to clean the air pollution. If it had stopped once the mission was accomplished things would be fine now. The problem is you had thousands of people that had most of their adult lives wrapped around this cause as a job. So what do they do now? Quit and find another career? I wish they had. No they went on and searched until they found another cause to go after. Then another and another and so on until this very day. The result of this is you have and insanely draconian regulation structure in this state. Companies have an incredibly difficult time figuring out what the stinking rules are let alone complying with them. I once heard an interview on the radio of a gentleman who tried to start a concrete plant in California. After years of red tape, millions of dollars spent and still not able to open his plant he finally gave up and went to Nevada. There they had him up and running in less than 6 months. He said that instead of hindering him the government went out of its way to help him. This is a prime example of lost opportunity. Instead of a revenue stream coming into this state it has been forced to leave and go elsewhere. We now get to pay someone in Nevada for our building material. This will get worse until every drop of income has been snuffed out and California crashes. You can already see it happening. The leaders in this state cry and say it’s a revenue problem. Their solution for this is to increase taxes to of course increase revenue. Some people are starting to think it’s a spending problem. Our fearless leaders never pass an opportunity to start a new entitlement program. I personally say it’s both. That being said I don’t think increasing the taxes is the solution to the revenue problem. Taxes are not the root cause of the revenue problem. We are already the highest taxed state in the nation. How do you say we are not doing our part when we pay more than anyone else in this country. That fact right there proves that taxes are not the cause. The real problem is how we have driven a massive portion of our income streams out of the state. I was born and raised in this state and there will always be a love of the many good things about my home but if I could somehow convince my wife to pull the plug and move I would be out of here in a heartbeat.

  43. Alexander Harvey says:
    April 12, 2011 at 10:06 am

    A case of making stuff up, I think. Notice that it is not a quote and I listened to what he did say on the BBC and the entire speech he gave that is referred to. What he had to say was interesting and quite startling in places but I think you can forget the “flicking the switch” stuff as he did not say that at all in either case.

    He did say that, you just have to be patient. It’s the last 10 seconds of a 2:45 interview.

    “The grid is going to be a very different system in 2020, 2030. We keep thinking that we want it to be there and provide power when we need it. It’s going to be much smarter than that. We are going to change our own behaviour and consume it when it is available and available cheaply.”

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9410000/9410485.stm

    He actually says it is a smart move to make electricity unavailable when needed and provide it when it’s not needed, but cheap, doesn’t he?

    Of course you are supposed to install expensive & inefficient & environmentally disastrous battery packs in your basement. In a pre-postnormal world it was considered crooked, not smart.

  44. Good ol’ Ross Perot. Damn I wish he had won. “In the mean time you’d have ruined the country”. You wonder if they planned it that way or just didn’t care?

    As to 33% renewable energy? That is easy. Quite seriously the California businesses need to fight fire with fire. Get thorium declared renewable. I’m bloody serious!

    Think about it. Why should they get to manipulate everything? We gotta stop being so darned honest.

  45. California is fast becoming the leaf blower capital of the world. So if you want to live in California, get a leaf blower to put in your pick-em-up truck. And its the first unsaturatable business ever invented.

    You blow the leaves away from that place, and I’ll blow them away from this place; kinda Kafkaesque if you ask me.

  46. @Dan in California

    Dan,

    I do hope CA disposed of the toxics byproducts of building you PV semiconductors in CA and didn’t export to another state.

  47. California governor Jerry Brown is expected to sign legislation today requiring energy firms in California to generate 33 per cent of their energy from renewable sources by 2020, delivering one of the most ambitious renewable energy standards in the world.

    A valiant effort, indeed, on the part of the Progressives, but it’s probably not going to rival the Holy Deathworshiping sadomasochism of the Islamofascists, at least for the next 4-5 years.

  48. Jay commented on April 12, 2011 at 8:33 am: “Looks like CA power costs 47% more for industrial, 26% more for commercial, and 29% more for residential when compared to Texas. Data from “Average Retail Price of Electricity to Ultimate Customers by End-Use Sector, by State, December 2010 and 2009
    http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epm/table5_6_a.html

    I have found the Average Retail price of electricity matrix for a state to be a rather poor metric to evaluate what it will cost in a particular location. For example,
    if you happen to live in the LADWP (say Hollywood)- service area you would have the following residential electrical rates-

    Monthly Rates
    High
    Season
    June – Sep. Low
    Season
    Oct. – May
    a. Rate A – Standard Service
    (1) Energy Charge –
    per kWh
    Tier 1 –
    per Zone Allocation $ 0.07020 $ 0.07020
    Tier 2 –
    per Zone Allocation $ 0.08520 $ 0.07020
    Tier 3 –
    per Zone Allocation $ 0.12000 $ 0.07020
    (2) ECA – per kWh See General Provisions

    //www.ladwp.com/ladwp/cms/ladwp000536.jsp )

    If your were concerned about CO2, then you might be a bit concerned about the source of power (and the location it was in generated in you were worried about smog in the LA Basin). For LADWP it looks like this-

    2009 Power Content Label

    Energy Resources
    LADWP Power*
    (Actual Mix) LADWP Green Power** (Actual Mix) 2008 CA Power Mix***
    (for comparison)
    Eligible Renewable**** 14% 100% 2%
    -Biomass & waste 2% 32% <1%
    -Geothermal 1% <1% 1%
    -Small hydroelectric 6% <1% 0%
    -Solar <1% <1% <1%
    -Wind 5% 68% 1%
    Coal 41% <1% 33%
    Large Hydroelectric 4% <1% 18%
    Natural Gas 30% <1% 42%
    Nuclear 11% <1% 5%
    Other <1% <1% 0%
    TOTAL 100% 100% 100%

    * 93% of LADWP Power is specifically purchased from individual suppliers.
    ** 100% of LADWP Green Power is specifically purchased from individual suppliers.
    *** Percentages are estimated annually by the California Energy Commission based on the electricity sold to California consumers during the previous year.
    **** In accordance with Los Angeles City Council’s action on 10-5-04 for File No. 03-2688 (RPS).

    I live in Northern CA- PG&E's service area. PG&E's power content doesn't have much coal (lots of hydro, natural gas and now some wind, solar and geothermal) anymore. Unfortunately, for most residential customers in PG&E's territory their AVERAGE price for a kw/hr of electricity is currently $.182 per kwh. Lots of folks- like my neighbor- pay a lot more then this average price. Their marginal cost is $.39 kwh for most of summer as they are in Tier 4 usage with their e-1 meter schedule- http://www.pge.com/nots/rates/tariffs/electric.shtml#RESELEC Tier 3,4/ 5 prices just went up for PG&E- the cost notes below are for schedule E-1 just before the latest increase.

    Tier 1 $.122
    Tier 2 $.139
    Tier 3 $.280
    Tier4/5 $.389

    PG&E Power content- 2010 ENERGY
    RESOURCES PG&E POWER MIX*
    (Projected) 2008 CA POWER MIX**1
    (For Comparison)
    Eligible Renewable 15% 2%
    • Biomass and waste 4% 0%
    • Geothermal 4% <1%
    • Small hydroelectric 4% <1%
    • Solar <1% 0%
    • Wind 3% <1%
    Coal 2% 34%
    Large Hydroelectric2 16% 18%
    Natural Gas 47% 42%
    Nuclear 20% 5%
    Other 1% 0%
    TOTAL 100% 100%

    So the metric of Average price for a state is not a metric I would choose when looking at costs (or say the average temperature in my area vs. the state as a whole). One wishes for the good old days (2002 or so) when my former corporate employer purchased all the electrical energy they wanted at $.05 kWh in Milpitas, CA. Well Enron did go bankrupt……… and the manufacturing operation that used to use a lot of ended up moving to China.

  49. @Torgeir Hansson

    At least Gov. Arnold tried to fix things. Moonbeam appears to be trying to break things.

    Granted, Arnold bought into some of the lame eco-bs you Cali’s are famous for. No excuse for that from an intelligent individual. So, I guess you’re right. He is a moron.

  50. To California governor Jerry Brown.

    A little story and a taste of the future for you and your progressive/regressive loony tune friends.

    Cheap land for sale coming soon to a California location near you!

    If you want to see the future of all California City’s have a look a what has happened to Detroit, Business’s left or folded and so did the mass of the hard working public = No jobs + No ticky (money) = No stay.
    In 1960 Detroit had a population of 1.785 Million +or- 1 million people have fled and to this day 1000’s more leave every day. Leaving a rotting/festering/ crime/drug laden failed city. People are simply abandoning nice homes they can’t even give away!

    California’s High Energy prices, anti business, sky high punitive taxes and green insanity will accomplish the same results give it time!

  51. Credit bubbles allow for the malinvestment of excessive government.

    When the credit bubble blows up – so will Government programs.

  52. This is really about artificially creating shortages so as to control and enslave people. It is pure tyranny. It is not about “the environment”–that is just the excuse. It is about raw, brute power. It is about reducing developed economies to the level of the third world. In the end it is about the self-immolation o the West to an irresponsible, sociopathic and narcissistic “elite”. It is wholly artificial and contrived. The citizens of the various nations of Western Civilization must realoze what the game is before it is too late.

    It is absurd that in the modern age an advance country like the UK will have to “change its usage patterns” (and you can bet, BTW, that the elites will have plenty of energy). That politicians and officials can put out bunk like this and not get hanged from the nearest lampposts shows how cowed and imbecilic the people of the West have become. If it goes on long enough it may undo all the progress of the 19th and 20th century.

    Do not imagine that these are cases of “zealous fools”, trapped in an “environmental ideology”: Nothing could be further from the truth.

  53. Well if you think you have problems in California just think of the poor Scots.

    Alex Salmond’s targets for energy from renewables is not 33% but 80% (it seems that the previous target of 50% that had managed to increase fuel poverty from 1 in 4 households in 2007 to 1 in 3 households in 2009 simply wasn’t ambitious enough for him).

    It’s had a rather dire effect on the Scottish economy – just view the graph –

    http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Economy/TrendLongerGDP

    However the BBC is telling us that the economy is picking up thanks to economic growth in the construction sector.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-12224914

    Unfortunately the Construction sector doesn’t seem to be agreeing with them –

    SBF the lead voice of the Scottish construction industry –

    “The Scottish construction industry has suffered badly from the economic downturn and prospects for 2011 remain poor”.

    “Commenting on the GDP figures for Scotland for the third quarter of 2010, published today by Scotland’s Chief Statistician, SBF Chief Executive Michael Levack has warned that the growth in output witnessed for the construction sector during that period is likely to represent a ‘high tide mark for the industry for some time to come’… Statistics show that the construction sector grew by 6.2% between July and September last year…Mr Levack said: “The latest GDP figures for Scotland suggest there was a big push to complete work during the third quarter of 2010 to make up for lost time during the severe weather conditions witnessed last winter”

    He has also highlighted new figures on corporate insolvencies in Scotland which show a dramatic increase in the number of building firms going out of business…figures published today by the Accountant in Bankruptcy show corporate insolvencies up 24% in the third quarter of 2010 compared to the same quarter of the preceding year. According to recent figures from the UK insolvency service, this trend includes a doubling in the number of construction firms forced into compulsory liquidation between July and September 2010 compared to the third quarter of 2009.”

    http://www.scottish-building.co.uk/pages/profiles.asp?pi=2097&ref=more

  54. I’m a genuine Native Son of the Golden West. I don’t live in California anymore. I joined something called The California Sane Drain in 1992. The remaining population of the state is getting close to: Nothing left but lunatics and masochists. Oh, and illegalles.

  55. The insanity in the state of California is reflected in my own state (which I’m thinking of abandoning for saner ground) of Washington. Earlier this year, the enlightened progressive elements passed legislation signed into law by the ever so intelligent Governor Gregoire mandating that 15% of electrical generation come from alternative sources. Evil hydroelectric was not deemed “clean” or “green”.

    Economically, the rural providers, like the one that services my county, have fewer customers per mile, meaning that this 15% will be far more expensive to install and operate, and will never add a profit to the balance sheet. Windmills become millstones or albatrosses rather than ensuring that power can be provided in the first place. I wonder if this is social engineering, vice an attempt to address a (non) problem?

  56. That doesn’t sound like such a big deal. If I’m not mistaken Ca is already getting 19% of its electricity from Renewable. That is non-hydro, non-nuclear renewable if I remember correctly.

    I know what sunshine, and wind is going to cost in 2020. Can you guarantee what Fossil Fuels will cost?

  57. The California Energy Commission has barely begun to make us hurt. They decide the energy mix and what new plants to build. It is illegal to build natural gas plants in California (SB 1037, 2005).

    We have part of smart grid installed in most homes now. One of the next steps will be time of use metering. You will need to pay more for using energy when you want it. Plan on waking up between 10 pm and midnight to start your day or your energy bill will jump sharply.

    Title 24 (building energy code) and Title 20 (appliance code) will almost certainly get green energy changes [1], which will require us to purchase new network-ready appliances. A pilot study is planned for Hawaii [2]. Manufacturers are salivating over this regulatory market.

    Rapid growth is projected in the smart appliance market [3]:

    “From 2011 to 2015, the global household smart appliance market is projected to grow from $3.06 billion to $15.12 billion, respectively. The compound annual growth rate (CAGR) from 2011 to 2015 is projected to be 49.0 percent.”

    California SB34 is a new bill that will almost certainly pass that creates a new public goods charge for non-agricultural water [4]. The cost is $110 per acre foot each year. That means you can expect an increase in your water bill of between $5 and $10 per month. Farmers and people who eat food are not off the hook. The bill provides for a $20 per irrigated acre charge each year. And there is another $10 per acre charge for planning.

    The more mobile among us are leaving. California’s population growth have been negative recently. The state Dept. of Finance estimated population for 2010 as 38.8 million, but the Census count was 37.3 million.

    Nothing is going to change in California until people start getting angry at the right people. Unfortunately, the propaganda machine seems to keep them believing “the Rich” aren’t paying their fair share, whatever that is. Meanwhile, jobs are evaporating because businesses are leaving, shrinking, or shutting down. Prices are rising, especially gasoline. Utility bills are going up. The middle class is imploding.

    Eventually, people may come to see Gov. Brown as California’s Obama. That will probably require another two or three years. Implementation of AB32 (CO2 restrictions) has just begun. Those costs will be multiplied through every stage of production and distribution, causing inflation, even more unemployment, and much greater dependence on government programs that simply can’t be sustained.

    California’s $28 billion budget shortfall is only going to grow every year unless state government shrinks significantly, and that requires cutting government employment. Also, businesses won’t recover without tax and regulatory relief. The state depends on taxing “wealthy” individuals (including S-corps, i.e. small businesses) for a big part of its revenue [5].

    And those wonderful folks in Sacramento are paying teachers to program our kids to believe in this nonsense, consuming over half of the general fund [6].

    References
    1) http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/NR/rdonlyres/6C2310FE-AFE0-48E4-AF03-530A99D28FCE/0/ZNEActionPlanFINAL83110.pdf

    2) http://www.smartgridnews.com/artman/publish/Technologies_Home_Area_Networks_News/GE-Smart-Grid-Pilot-Show-Time-in-Maui-2110.html

    3) http://www.smartgridnews.com/artman/publish/End_Use_Appliances_Resources/Smart-Grid-Insights-Smart-Appliances-1979.html

    4) http://www.legisweb.com/app/pkgs/calm/Retrieve.asp?ref=urn:calm:2011:sb0034:doc:html

    5) http://articles.ocregister.com/2011-04-08/news/29401733_1_income-tax-personal-income-tax-data

    6) http://www.dof.ca.gov/budgeting/budget_faqs/#7

  58. In South Australia, we are facing power shortages in the near future.

    http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/threatened-power-supply-paints-dim-future-for-state/story-e6frea6u-1226038168485

    This is exacerbated by the expansion of Olympic Dam which, in part, mines uranium

    http://www.bhpbilliton.com/bb/ourBusinesses/baseMetals/olympicDam.jsp

    Our illustrious leaders have declared that SA will never have nuclear power, so we are digging uranium out of the ground using power generated by non-nuclear means so that other countries can ensure their power supplies whilst we live in semi-darkness.

    Disconnect somewhere.

  59. Kum Dollison said on April 12, 2011 at 8:33 am: “That doesn’t sound like such a big deal. If I’m not mistaken Ca is already getting 19% of its electricity from Renewable. That is non-hydro, non-nuclear renewable if I remember correctly.”

    You are correct on large hydro not counting as renewable, nor is the in-state nuclear counted for the RE standard.

    The California Public Utilities Commission recently published a “Renewable Portfolios Standard Update (First Quarter 2011)”.

    http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/NR/rdonlyres/62B4B596-1CE1-47C9-AB53-2DEF1BF52770/0/Q12011RPSReporttotheLegislatureFINAL.pdf

    A few bullets from the report-

    “Collectively, the large IOUs reported in their March 2011 Compliance Filings that they served 17.9% of their electricity with RPS‐eligible generation in 2010, up from 15.4% in 2009. PG&E served 17.7% of its 2010 load3 with RPS‐eligible renewable energy, SCE with19.4%, and SDG&E with 11.9%.
    compliance. As a result, no non‐compliance penalties have been levied.

    • To date, 2,002 MW of new renewable capacity achieved commercial operation under theRPS program. 300 MW of new renewable capacity has come online in the first quarter of 2011, with an additional 589 MW forecast to come online by the end of the year.

    • In their September 17, 2010 verified RPS compliance reports to the CPUC, PG&E, SCE, and SDG&E reported no RPS deficits for 2004, 2005, and 2006. No party submitted comments or motions for evidentiary hearing on the 2004‐2006 verified data, and no party asserts any LSE is out of compliance. The CPUC has not found any LSE out of compliance. As a result, no non‐compliance penalties have been levied.

  60. Kum, you have no idea what “sunshine and wind” is going to cost in 2020, ad that is just an intentional misstatement of the problem. You rhetoric is as dishonest as it is juvenile. . It is, famously, not “sunshine and wind” under discussion but rather the economics and technology to make them viable and substantial alternatives. It is this actual problem with those “power sources” that you evidently wish to obscure with you foolish rhetoric.

    RichardM: Again, this has nothing to do with “clean energy” and everything to do with eliminating the (mostly white) middle class and turning them into dependent serfs.

    You can bet that the Asians will not be so stupid. We could be in a really terrible competitive state in 15 years due to this suicidal madness. “Alternative energy” is a in great part a fraud, and in any event it is government duty to see that energy needs are met and that material progress continues apace; it most certainly is not governments business to rock on hobby horses straight out of 1968 and thus lead their citizens into poverty or into the dominance of its foes or competitors. . The government of America should be interested in increasing American prosperity and power, not in diminishing it. This is clearly treason and madness. It is also suicide.

    These people are out to destroy the West. You need to get clear about that.

  61. Hoser says:

    “California SB34 is a new bill that will almost certainly pass that creates a new public goods charge for non-agricultural water… The cost is $110 per acre foot each year. That means you can expect an increase in your water bill of between $5 and $10 per month.”

    This will amaze some folks in other parts of the country, but my water bill in the summer [NorCal] is already $80 – $100 a month. My gas & electric bill is half that.

  62. Just because government mandates something doesn’t mean it’ll happen. I seem to remember that California had a mandate years ago for a certain percentage of electric cars by a certain date. It didn’t happen and the mandate died.

    33% of electricity from renewable sources in 8 1/2 years isn’t possible.

    And people won’t put up with significant interruptions in their electricity. Look what happened a decade ago when we had rolling blackouts. People screamed bloody murder and suddenly new power plants were built.

    But maybe it’ll take something like more blackouts for people to wake up in this state and kick those idiots in Sacramento out of office.

  63. Marion says:
    April 12, 2011 at 3:32 pm

    Soon they will be talking about the ’15, the ’45, and the ’11.

  64. I just spent several days in Texas, and returned to California with weary relief.

    Everything may be bigger in Texas, but everything’s better in California.

  65. Forecast? You want a forecast? I’ll give you a forecast. It’s gonna be cold.
    It’s gonna be grey. And it’s gonna last you for the rest of your life.

    JF

  66. I cant’ wait until a major high-tech company announces it will be leaving California because of their energy policies. That will eventually lead to state bankrupcy.

  67. Quis . . . Custodes,

    Thanks very much for the information. Talk is talk, facts is facts. And, the facts are: California is gettin’ it done.

  68. Meanwhile,
    Brightsource Energy has closed on 1.6 billions dollars of DOE financing for their three California solar projects. The increase in funding was based on receiving a new higher power price with Pacific Gas and Electric and Southern California Edison. Brightsource did not report what that price was. Google and the California State Teachers pension fund are investors.

    http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-market-news-story.aspx?storyid=201104112029dowjonesdjonline000388&title=doe-increases-loangoogle-steps-in-to-fund-brightsource-project

  69. I think this site does a tremendous job with climate change, and should stick to that.

    Whenever a post forays into politics like this one it loses credibility due to the many Tea Party mouth breathers it attracts.

    I follow this site because it appeals to reason and pragmatism. The emanations from those quarters are neither.

    We know we need to achieve energy independence. Green energy has a role to play there, but as far as I can tell it is minor, and probably better suited for residential and local applications. Fuel cells may be something one day.

    Nuclear is the obvious choice, Fukushima nothwithstanding, for grid-scale applications. Let’s sure the engineers working on it are not from the Tea Party.

    And please don’t tell me that the evil guvmint is planning for future energy needs out of a desire to “enslave” the population. It’s hogwash.

    If you don’t like Sacramento, try Jeddah.

  70. Was in LA just last week and spent quite a bit of time going around the LA basin during the trip. Except for the beaches and the enclaves of West LA, the county has become one gigantic economic disaster area chock full of housing foreclosures, high vacancies in the retail sector and crumbling streets and freeways. Governor Moonshine and the State Legislature have an excellent chance of seeing their 2020 energy goals achieved – all they have to do is continue to crush the California economy with high energy costs and high regulatory costs, including regular shakedowns of businesses by bureaucrats and regulators hungry for revenue to close state and local budget gaps. Surrounding states are cheering them on.

  71. Last time we had governor “Moonbeam” we got 16 years of Republicans. Looks the Democrats want to go for that a second time! This time the “Greens” will lose all standing as we have rolling blackouts.
    I will need to finish up a wood fired electricity generator on our small farm. pg

  72. Dear Torgeir Hansson,

    There are, unavoidably, right wing nuts that post on this site and I agree that people who say the government is using energy policy to enslave the population should be ignored. However, emergency-driven energy policy such as is noted in this post emanates from forecasts of catastrophic climate change and thus cannot be separated from purely scientific discussion of climate science issues. While your concerns about extremists polluting the dialogue are well taken, there are more than enough reasonable, balanced comments such that irrational comments can be easily ignored.

  73. Berényi Péter:

    I say he did not say something, you say he did, but you point to somewhere were he said something quite different. I listened to the speech all 1+ hours of it, I listen to the BBC broadcast, nowhere did he say the unquoted stuff in the piece I am complaining about.

    That is why it is unquoted: it is stuff that he did not say, it is stuff that they made up. It is simply a very sorry excuse for journalism, and people know no better than to read it as if it were true.

    There is a huge difference between a journalist stating a personally held opinion or interpretation under their own name but as soon as you use:

    “… according to Steve Holliday”

    it has to relate to something that accords with what Steve Holliday said or what his stated views are, and he never said the anything allowing such hyperbolic dramatisation.

    Alex

  74. Quote :

    We know we need to achieve energy independence. Green energy has a role to play there,

    This is about as stupid as stupid goes .
    Nobody but a few brainwashed people knows that energy “independence” must be achieved .
    There was only one consistent attempt in history to achieve “independence” in everything .
    Indeed why only focus on energy ?
    Independence is also mandatory for food , water , building materials , chemical products , computers by exactly the same argument as for energy .
    It has been promoted and implemented by Ceaucescu , Romania .

    Perhaps (some) Californians dream to finish like Romania did – in poverty , despair and ignorance .
    But every reasonable person with a minimum understanding in economy knows exactly the opposite to the stupidity quoted above – “independence” is never a primary target in economy .
    The primary target in economy is to produce and distribute ANY good or service at the lowest price for the LONGEST time to a MAXIMUM of people .

    If that means importing goods because they can be produced cheaper elsewhere then this is a much better solution for everybody .
    Misunderstanding this principle leads to the ruin immediately at the scale of corporations and a bit later at the scale of nations .
    For Ceaucescu it took about 25 years to destroy the economy and the country and to finish in front of the firing squad , admittedly not only because of economical idiocy .

    I am not Californian so will not judge those who vote in office people whose economical principle is “the highest price and the lowest quantity for as few people as possible” .
    I consider them certainly seriously deranged and oblivious to history’s teachings but they are free of their choices . Sofar .

    However I would have extreme objections is if they tried to export their madness outside .
    In this case California would have to be put in a generalized quarantine – no trade and most importantly no loan .
    Countries economically crippled for ideological reasons never pay their debts so the golden rule is to avoid any kind of interaction with them untill they self destruct .

  75. The problem I see here, in the UK this is less of a problem as there all nutters left or right, is that it has been shown that all left leaning politico’s as children never where told no and got everything they wanted, so now when a adult of the left says that 33% must be produce through fairy dust well you either get to th bottom of the garden and beat some fariy dust out of a small woodland creature or expect a temper tantrum.

    I surpose if your going to look at the bottom of a garden though a Hollywood garden would be the best place to start.

  76. Bob Diaz says:
    “More than one in five (21%) of California small-business owners do not expect to be in business in California in three years, according to a recent survey by Small Business California, an advocacy group in San Francisco. …”
http://jan.ocregister.com/2011/03/08/are-calif-businesses-closing-or-leaving/55995/

    I read that yesterday. I find it incredibly disturbing how many people actually believe that not only is the state doing just fine, but that what’s happening there is GOOD.

    I grew up in the Inland Empire (for non-Californians that’s a region about 60 miles east of LA). Left the place 3 years ago, and every time I read about it, I’m happier with my decision.

    William Mason says:
    Many groups were formed and many years were spent pressuring the government to pass regulation to clean the air pollution. If it had stopped once the mission was accomplished things would be fine now. The problem is you had thousands of people that had most of their adult lives wrapped around this cause as a job. So what do they do now? Quit and find another career? I wish they had. No they went on and searched until they found another cause to go after. Then another and another and so on until this very day

    Now there’s one reason I’ve always been rather skeptical of ANY organization whose stated goal is the abolition of their purpose.

  77. Kum Dollison added a new comment to the post California’s giant sucking sound. ” California is gettin’ it done.”

    Kum, yes the California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) and California Energy Commission (CEC) have fully supported the legislative efforts/requirements to have 20% renewables in the states electrical generation (by 2010 originally) over the last half a dozen years or so. It’s a bit difficult to get real data on what the costs are for any particular RE project. The prices paid to RE generators are held confidential for a number of years. With the prices of solar and wind generation going down the ISO’s and the CPUC have moved to a market based approach to minimize the overall costs of bringing RE on line.

    PG&E gave a presentation to potential RE generators back in 2009 at a bidders conference-

    http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oGdSKnjKVNFWgA3SRXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE1aDN0djUwBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNgRjb2xvA3NrMQR2dGlkA01TWTAwNl8xNzY-/SIG=14innfb8c/EXP=1302716679/**http%3a//www.pge.com/includes/docs/ppt/b2b/wholesaleelectricsuppliersolicitation/2009rps_biddersconferencepresentation_final.ppt

    If your into the details of what some smaller RE generators can get paid for their generation your might find the 2009 Feed in Tariff prices of interest (note the time of delivery factors and time of the year factors to get to the actual price the generator gets paid).

    http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/PUC/energy/Renewables/Feed-in+Tariff+Price.htm

    PG&E agreed last year to purchase the output of a PV facility located outside of Los Vegas (owned by Sempra). Some details of the project are noted here-

    http://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/PUBLISHED/FINAL_RESOLUTION/111507.htm

    I am unsure how PG&E will allocate the costs of the power across it’s customer base. In the past PG&E’s allocation of costs had spared Tier 1 residential electrical energy customers the increased costs of meeting the RE mandates. That approach changed last year and the CPUC agreed with PG&E that all residential tier’s should share in the increased costs.

  78. Kum Dollison says:
    Thanks very much for the information. Talk is talk, facts is facts. And, the facts are: California is gettin’ it done.

    If by “gettin’ it done” you mean ruining what used to be a great state, then you’re absolutely right.

  79. Torgeir Hansson :”Whenever a post forays into politics like this one it loses credibility due to the many Tea Party mouth breathers it attracts.

    I follow this site because it appeals to reason and pragmatism. The emanations from those quarters are neither.”

    A wholly unsupported set of allegations. You offer is nothing at all to support this–nothing but slander and insult. It is mere left wing cant. You are in fact guilty of what you accuse the “Tea Partiers”–you are projecting. Moreover, you have no evidence at all that anyone here is even a member of the “Tea Party”. One hardly has to be in the “Tea Party” to deplore and detest the agenda of the Left: one merely need be a sane adult. One suspects that you have know real knoldge at all about the “Tea Party People” whatsoever; you merely beleive what the Left’s propagandists tells you. How foolish of you.

    You are a typical leftist. You cannot rationally argue your positions when faced with rational discussion but instead engage in ad homiem attacks against those would would disagree with you, thus the puerile resort to the usual dodge of calling the eminently rational and pragmatic opposition “right wing nut jobs”. Clearly, to cling to such obvious logical fallacies and moral errors such as these speaks of your mental and moral weakness and not those of others. Little about you position is either rational or pragmatic.

    What is truly preposterous, however, is that you imagine that the issues surrounding “energy” can be understood without recourse to an understanding of the political environment. One gather that this is because you do not want to own up to the immense damage caused by the policies of the Left.

    It is, perforce, the implementation of the policies of a great many “left wing not jobs” that has put us in this predicament. Rather than slander those who point this out to you, you would be better served to listen to them and then engage in some soul searching. You might then encounter the truth.

  80. Washington State, nestled in a dark blue corner of the Pacific North Wet, declared in 2006 that we needed 15% alternative energy on the grid. We have crazies in charge here, obviously. Here’s our power breakdown from that time:

    Right now, averaged across a year, roughly 23.7 percent of the Northwest’s electricity comes from coal, natural gas and nuclear power, according to the Washington State Department of Community Trade and Economic Development. The department’s 2009 Biennial Energy Report (scroll to Page 34 of the report here) estimates that almost 73 percent of the region’s power comes from hydroelectric dams — ironically considered “renewable” in other states, but not so in Washington under I-937. Another 2 percent comes from wind power, and the rest comes from a mishmash of other sources. Solar power is so small it doesn’t register on the state’s breakdown.

    http://crosscut.com/2010/12/28/energy-utilities/20375/Can-the-state-meet-its-mandate-to-find-alternative-energy-sources-/

    This clearly means more hydro is not in the plans, so we will need solar (it is to laugh. There is a reason this place is called the PNWet), wind, the perennial favorite of city dwellers that don’t have to live with the mess, or the miracle decarbonized Pielke Furnace energy source yet to be invented.

    So out in our formerly beautiful Kittitas county, in the rolling lava flows and high prairies of our central desert, we have our newest blight. Our beautiful scablands, tortured and scoured by floods from the great glacial lakes and mile thick ice are now sullied by tall stands of soon to be broken Danish wind turbines. The Danes lead the world in placing windmills in other people’s back yards.

    And how has wind worked out for the Danes? In Denmark, that is. Well, it turns out you really do need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

    http://www.aweo.org/problemwithwind.html

    Conveniently photographed to disguise the visual horror, welcome to Horizon Wind Energy and the Kittitas wind bodge.

    http://www.horizonwind.com/projects/whatwevedone/kittitas-valley.aspx

  81. For those interested . . . . From C-Span “congress” Capital hearings

    http://www.capitolhearings.org/

    Select ” Committee on Energy and Commerce”

    Then Select “Featured Story
    Watch Live: Energy and Power Subcommittee Hearing (10 am ET) Watch Live: Oversight and Investigations Hearing (10:30 am ET)”

  82. John Tofflemire:

    I agree that you cannot always separate scientific and political discussion. Yet political discussion can be pragmatic. The ideological cant in some of the claims you see on this thread is clear: government is out to get us. It is heated, distorted rhetoric, and we seem to be together in this.

    hattip:
    Yes, I am a typical leftist, one who takes a stand against climate change hysteria.

    “The immense damage of the policies of the left?” Last time I checked the Republicans were in charge for the last two Administrations, and took the country from a surplus to a gaping deficit.

    That is all I will comment, the rest of your comment speaks for itself.

    I will not participate in any further discussion here along partisan lines.

  83. John Tofflemire:

    What I meant to say was that “we seem to be together in dismissing it as such,” not that “we seem to be together in this.”

  84. Torgeir Hansson,

    Please refer to this chart before casting aspersions. Both parties are at fault, but Obama is 300% more at fault…

    …note your ‘gaping deficit.’

  85. “”””” hattip says:
    April 13, 2011 at 8:09 am
    Torgeir Hansson :”Whenever a post forays into politics like this one it loses credibility due to the many Tea Party mouth breathers it attracts.

    I follow this site because it appeals to reason and pragmatism. The emanations from those quarters are neither.”

    A wholly unsupported set of allegations. You offer nothing at all to support this–nothing but slander and insult. It is mere left wing cant. You are in fact guilty of what you accuse the “Tea Partiers” of – you are projecting. Moreover, you have no evidence at all that anyone here is even a member of the “Tea Party”. One hardly has to be in the “Tea Party” to deplore and detest the agenda of the Left: one merely need be a sane adult. One suspects that you have no real knowledge at all about the “Tea Party People” whatsoever; you merely believe what the Left’s propagandists tell you. How foolish of you.

    Some really odd folks, those TEA partiers; some of them may be a little bit senile. For example, yesterday morning, I stopped by my Credit Union to borrow some money and get some checks to pay my US Federal Estimated Taxes for q1-2011, as well as for the rapacious State of California. So then I took off at about 3:30 PM to drive down to downtown San Jose’s Cesar Chavez Park (well known leftist rabble rouser) to attend a TEA Party rally to commemorate Tax day. Now I’m not a US citizen, so I don’t actually belong to ANY party; but I have and do attend rallies aimed at bringing Politician’s attention to concerns that voters and citizens (and also legal permanent resident aliens) often have. Such as the great Anti-MTBE EPA sponsored Environmental Pollution mandate protest.
    And yes I do attend the local TEA party Tax Day rally.
    Actually nobody but me showed up for yesterday’s rally, and when I checked my watch, it seemed that the date was only April 12 yesterday, and Tax day is April 15. Well this year you have till the 18th to pay your taxes, since the 15th is a Saturday. And I don’t know whether the rally is going to actually be held on Saturday or not, or whether it will be on the 18th. But it sure as hell wasn’t on the 12th. Damn I didn’t need to borrow that money after all, since Friday is payday.

    And I came to the rally, without my gun, and my Bible; well I don’t have the former, and I probably know about half of the latter from memory; well that’s at least a 60 year old memory so I may have forgotten some. But I do know some of the US Constitution, and that is all you need to know to figure out when the gummint is screwing you.

    But when I finally do go; when they have the real party, I expect to see the usual polyglot of people show up. You can find hell’s angels, and old grandmothers, and college kids; even a crowd of Latino illegales; there’ll be Africans (same as it says on Obama’s birth certificate) as well as Blacks, and Negroes, and Orientals,as well as other Asians, such as Bangladeshis, and their various cousins; Europeans both Western and formerly Eastern, and Russians, even some tired old white men like me. There’ll be mothers with their kids, and schoolteachers, and firemen; Doctors, and stock brokers, and truck drivers and plumbers. The San Jose Police will have a big contingent, who will stand in an orderly line up against a local building wall, and try to avoid falling asleep. Their official task will be to keep the peace, and make sure that the Code Pinkers, and other rent-a-mob regulars, don’t try to take over the rally from those who will have a three hour Permit to conduct their absolute right to peaceably assemble to petition their Government for redress of grievances (excessive taxation). The fully fake documented illegales, will have their signs clamoring for “immigrant’s rights”. Now I’m an Immigrant, and I’ve never been denied the same rights as every other person, whether citzen or immigrant. These “protesters/petitioners” will all have one common thread; nary a one of them has ever been anywhere near any immigration office or officer. That would seem to be a prerequisite for obtaining “immigrant’s rights” like I enjoy.

    Well the SJ first reponders will do a good job of keeping the CPers, and the other “protesters” separated from the mottley bunch of TEA partiers; but the party will go on peacefully.

    And other than what San Jose will feel they have to spend for extra Police attendance; all quite unnecessary, the city maintenance department, will reap a windfall, because all those crazy looney TEA partiers, will clean that Cesar Chavez park till it is cleaner than an Intel wafer fab clean room; and even the squirrels, and the crows, won’t find a scrap of jetsam anywhere in the park once the TPers get through with their rally.

    Compare that to the Million Man March on Washington DC that turned the Nation’s Capital into a trampled landfill of junk and garbage, and broken windows, and other mayhem.

    Yes Torgeir Hansson, those TEA Partiers are some nutty people; they actually believe that their Government should follow the laws of the land, and do just what they are Constitutionally instructed, and empowered to do.

    But I will give you, that even TEA partiers, are supposed to know how to read the damn calendar, and not show up three to six days early.

  86. “”””” Eric Gisin says:
    April 12, 2011 at 7:56 pm
    I cant’ wait until a major high-tech company announces it will be leaving California because of their energy policies. That will eventually lead to state bankrupcy. “”””””

    Well Intel for one, now does its high tech manufacturing in Arizona, not California; and you can be sure it is not because of the ready nearby source of migrant workers. So their new $5B + wafer fab plant will be built there in the heat of Arizona, rather than the balmy idyllic weather of a Silicon Valley full of young highly educated hotshot engineers and scientists from every corner of the planet. I can’t tell you how many former Intel employees at all skills, I know, whose jobs were outsourced to to other places outside California.

  87. The ignorance of politicians like old Moon Beam has absolutely no bounds. From what I have read and seen it is usually the one in the family with no skills that goes into politics. Averil (sp?) Harriman was a good example, his smart brother ran the railroads and he became a “noted statesman”. CA is getting the smoke from all the Chinese coal fired generators and the radioactive fall out from Japan and Moon Beam is worried about what pollution they will cause by burning coal in CA. The fallout from their industry would eventually head east at any rate along with the prevailing weather patterns.

  88. Discussions near and dear to my heart.

    I have been a minor-league California politician, have worked on energy
    policy with the state, have designed, purchased, installed and run my
    own PV system.

    Recently I moved out of California.

    It is not that the state is ungovernable. The people of the state have not
    experienced enough pain to force the state to be governed well. The pain
    will come as the producers leave.

    Having run for office, I have spent a comparatively large amount of time
    working on reforms to fix the State. As Reagan said, the solutions are
    simple, but not easy. The bureaucracy does not want reform, neither do
    the state unions, neither do those on the dole. Numerically, that is a strong
    majority. The minority of us that are producers do not have the electoral
    clout to address the problem. All the constitutional officers of the state,
    plus the California Assembly and Senate are uninterested in fixing the state.

    Before this last election season, I wrote up a plan to fix California. Of
    course I lost the election — most of the electorate is not at all interested in
    facing reality. So I moved out. My PV plant is packed up in a truck and
    will be moved this weekend to my new home in another state. I see no
    path between where we are now and where the state needs to get to to be
    competitive that does not go through a rough, violent place.

  89. I put this up on the Tips page a while ago but not sure if anyone read it. The California statute for renewables required purchasing a certain percentage of power by dollar value, not kW-h. Is this still the case w/ Gov. Brown? Is he actually proposing to purchase 33% of the power by the cost of production instead of the production? You all see the problem, right?

  90. Will any of you bother to recognize that it is “Law Enforcement” who enable this? Do you REALLY think that Jerry, or ANY of his toadies, is actually going to do anything PHYSICAL to force this to happen? Instead, they will rely on “Law Enforcement”, aka Thugs with Guns, to force this to happen. Until enough of them rot where they belong, expect this to continue unabated.

Comments are closed.