Monbiot’s prediction – 1 year to go

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Just one year to go to check on the accuracy of this prediction, claimed by warming proponent George Monbiot in 2002.

Haunting the Library writes:

Within as little as 10 years, the world will be faced with a choice: arable farming either continues to feed the world’s animals or it continues to feed the world’s people. It cannot do both.The impending crisis will be accelerated by the depletion of both phosphate fertiliser and the water used to grow crops. Every kilogram of beef we consume, according to research by the agronomists David Pimental and Robert Goodland, requires around 100,000 litres of water. Aquifers are beginning the run dry all over the world, largely because of abstraction by farmers.

Guardian. Why Vegans Were Right All Along.

And it wasn’t just eating meat, that Monbiot was demanding we ditch – “vegetarians who continue to consume milk and eggs scarcely reduce their impact on the ecosystem”. As the title puts it, “Vegans were right all along”. Give up meat, eggs, cheese, butter and milk, or we’ll all be starving within as little as ten years, he warned.

Monbiot is not a racist. He is not even a neo-Malthusian. But in his eagerness to impose austerity on everyone, he gets taken in by the arguments of those who are. It’s why he earnestly believed the patently ludicrous claim that it took 100,000 litres of water to make 1 kilogram of beef, a risible claim that anyone not ideologically blinded would instantly dismiss as nonsense, as he himself was forced to do as 2012 approached.

It is the anti-immigrant and anti-human agenda of the people who warn of “scarce resources” and “too many people” that is the real danger, not the idle bravado and loose chatter of a bunch of guys on an internet chat-room.

More here at Haunting the Library

h/t to Andrew Bolt

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129 thoughts on “Monbiot’s prediction – 1 year to go

  1. just think of all the green credits I can capture by opening a cattle ranch and deciding NOT to raise any cattle …
    I’ll be rich !!!

  2. Monbiot is realizing that his only real mistake – a mistake that his fellow travelers are now correcting – was to make his prediction for 10 years and not for 100, or 1000. Obviously the only predictions that one will never have to apologize for will be those for a time frame much greater than the lifespans of any potential responders.

    Follow that guideline and chant the warmists mantra: “You can’t prove it’s not true!!!!”

  3. Just how much farming is actually based on water from aquifers by the way? Almost all farming in the temperate zone and in monsoon areas is rain-based. Most irrigation agriculture is rain-based too, although the rain has often fallen far away.
    About the only exceptions I can think of is oasis agriculture in desert areas and stock-keeping in the Great Artesian Basin of Australia and in some parts of the American West.

  4. Wouldn’t it be nice if Monbiot checked out all the numbers he uses BEFORE he writes his alarmist rubbish?

    How long would it take to google around the net to debunk the 100,000 litre claim, for example?

  5. Anthony
    You have recently published a number of articles maskerading as research which demonstrates how these propagandists (for they are not scientists) are anti-human. The nub of the CO2 issue is that if we adopt the proposed cure (to halt nearly all CO2 emissions within the next 30 to 40 years), this will result in hundresds of thousands if not millions of deaths and will condemn most of the developing world to live in abject povery without electrity for at least many generations to come. What could be more anti-human than that?

  6. “…so many centuries after the Creation it is unlikely that anyone could find hitherto unknown lands of any value.”
    Committee advising King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella of Spain regarding a proposal by Christopher Columbus, 1486.

    “Rail travel at high speed is not possible, because passengers, unable to breathe, would die of asphyxia.”
    Dr Dionysius Lardner (1793-1859), professor of Natural Philosophy and Astronomy, University College London

    “What, sir, would you make a ship sail against the wind and currents by lighting a bonfire under her deck? I pray you, excuse me, I have not the time to listen to such nonsense.”
    Napoleon Bonaparte, when told of Robert Fulton’s steamboat, 1800s

    “The phonograph has no commercial value at all.”
    Thomas Edison, American inventor, 1880s

    “Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible.”
    Lord Kelvin, British mathematician and physicist, president of the British Royal Society, 1895

    “Within as little as 10 years, the world will be faced with a choice: arable farming either continues to feed the world’s animals or it continues to feed the world’s people. It cannot do both.”
    George Monbiot, 2002.

  7. ‘Jeff : just think of all the green credits I can capture by opening a cattle ranch and deciding NOT to raise any cattle …
    I’ll be rich !!!’

    Not the experience of some who tried to raise cattle in Australia and were not allowed to, due to government interference!

  8. simply wow, who knew cows were a closed system that destroyed water? I guess the missing water is on vacation with the missing heat.

  9. Monbiot is just a clever journo who jumped on the AGW bandwagon early and has been feted and well paid for many years now as he clocked up airmiles evangelizing.
    Now that the wheels are coming off that bandwagon he’s clearly suffering the loss of authority and status that he craved (hopefully income too).
    Just watching him squirm is good enough for me!

  10. So, any chance we may get a apologia and retraction like he did over climategate? Not likely, but there is always hope.

  11. He probably meant there are 100,000 litres of water falling for every kg of beef produced,just a slip of the tongue.

  12. Not exactly in defense of Monbiot, he was certainly right in considering phosphat to be a limited resource (as is earth’s surface, btw).

  13. I have steak credits for sale.

    I promise not to eat a 12oz filet mignon in exchange for a $32 “Steak & Trade” coupon. The way it works is: You send me $32, and I send you a coupon which allows you to eat a 8-12oz filet mignon steak (the cost of the steak to you is additional). Should you choose an alternative cut of beef, the coupon value will be increased accordingly to a 10% maximum.

    Proceeds from the Steak & Trade program will be used to fund the purchase of renewable foodstuffs, such as truffles or saffron. (We are also planning on sequestering CO2 bound in grape juice in 750ml bottles long term at a later date)

    Although I have yet to formalize the system, I am accepting deposits for the coupons, and as soon as I have them printed they will be forwarded. Please note that they will be sold only in blocks of 10.

  14. George Monbiot has a fast mouth and he is a self-confessed hypocrite.

    “How many of us can claim to live as we urge others to live? Most environmentalists — myself included — are hypocrites.”
    Heat, London, Allen Lane, 2006, p. 215 & 287.

    George Monbiot on Green hypocrisy & his own hypocrisy

    http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2005/06/30/save-us-from-ourselves/

    He also said something about flying by plane will soon be as unaceptable as child abuse after which he went on a Canadian book signing tour!!!!! (Did he fly, did he row, did he float on a hot air baloon?). Monbiot is a green hypocrite. He has attacked people with too many rooms in their home and he is divorced with 4 rooms. Humbuggery!!!

  15. George Monbiot has clearly never heard of the law of diminishing returns…….

    The more outlandish his predictions, the less chance there is of them coming true.

    End result : He winds up losing what little credibility he may have had in the first place.

  16. The 100,000 liters of water per kilogram of beef is shocking. I saw a number of that size on PETA website once. They also published the millions of tons of cow poo that didn’t line up with actual farming inputs/outputs. When we put 400 pounds on cattle at pasture in 100 days in the Flint Hills, using their math, that means cows would be urinating at 70 gallons per minute less amount lost from evaporation. The amount of litres from rainfall is irrelevant because it rains on agriculture whether plants are harvested or not.

  17. Only one more year before we run out of water? Then why all the fuzz about peak oil? I’m buying evian shares.

  18. I ate a kg of beef last week.
    It was good.
    ’nuff said
    d

    PS I mass 75 kg, just have a high metabolic rate.
    [d]

  19. Well it’s nice to know that, according to Paul Nurse (sorry I don’t do the Sir bits) head of the Royal Society thinks that only scientist can do science and the rest of us just have to sit back and believe everything they tell us. Sounds a bit like Roman Catholic dogma. I found his attitude patronising and arrogant, but hey I’m only and engineer and a university lecturer (got a science degree too).
    As for his analogy to cures for cancer, well fifty years ago the cures for cancer killed my father in law, today’s cures would have saved him. So much for that analogy.
    But then I’ve heard of white washes, I guess it wasn’t long before we had science washes too. But then I guess he didn’t get to that position by not scratching a few backs. I just hopes he’s still around when the data shows that it’s not CO2 but that ruddy great big yellow thing in the sky and complex sea currents that causes climate fluctuations. As for Monbiot, he’s just another communist/fascist/controlist using any excuse (in this case AGW) to try to control the rest of us. It’s never going to happen, but he’s too stupid to realise it.

  20. Jeremy, why have put a trashy bloggist Moonbat quote alongside the likes of Kelvin and Edison? A little faux pas, for sure.

  21. As for Monbiot’s prediction – FAIL as with James “Death Trains” Hansen. FAIL, FAIL AND FAIL AGAIN!!! Prepeare tar and feather.

  22. There is no difference between this joker and anyone else that wishes to force the rest of the world to live the way they see as correct. Osama Bin Laden wants everyone to be a faithful Muslim, this idiot wants us all to eat lettuce. In the end they each want to force everyone else to their worldview. The 10:10 people do the same thing.

    There is something inherently wrong with those that demand everyone live by their views of what is right. I am rather sick of other people trying to decide what is best for me.

    John Kehr
    The Inconvenient Skeptic

  23. It is the anti-immigrant and anti-human agenda of the people who warn of “scarce resources” and “too many people” that is the real danger, not the idle bravado and loose chatter of a bunch of guys on an internet chat-room.

    Immigration made America.

    Population growth allows the young to care for the old.

    Everything else is pure selfishness.

    Look in the mirror and look at where YOU came from.

  24. The problem of rising food prices is driven by the rising incomes of the Chinese, primarily. As they grow wealthier, they eat more meat, which requires even more grain. Thus, high food prices are the result of the Chinese both eating more and eating more food that requires a higher agricultural input.

    Rising food prices will make Americans eat perhaps a bit less, or a bit less well. For the global poor, say Haitains or peoples of sub-Saharan Africa, it can be quite a problem. Increasing food prices will–indeed, are–putting them into an existential bind. They may simply eat less, when they do not yet even eat enough.

  25. beesaman says:
    January 24, 2011 at 2:15 pm

    Well it’s nice to know that, according to Paul Nurse (sorry I don’t do the Sir bits) head of the Royal Society thinks that only scientist can do science and the rest of us just have to sit back and believe everything they tell us.

    Hi,

    I just watched it to, equating climate ‘deniers’ with people who don’t believe AIDS, silly. Everything he was accusing the sceptics of doing he managed to do himself during that program.

    I do think he came good at the end though, his call for the science and data to be open can only be a good thing.

    MarkD

  26. Beware the agw are really hammering the “warmest year 2010″ to the max. The economist has had a lead article. They will not give up and will twist the data to make sure. Unfortunately 2011 looks like being a cool year.

  27. The animal feed claim rubs me the wrong way. Cattle for instant are put on feed lots and fed corn to make them taste good. Most of their lives, they are eating grasses, corn stalks, cotton seed, and lots of other plant fibers that people cannot eat. Grazing animals turn non-eatable plants into protein. They are basically a big protein battery.

  28. In my younger days, the wife and I used to raise beef for our own consumption. I don’t recall using “100,000 litres of water to make 1 kilogram of beef” at all. Mostly, they ate grass. Sure, we had a water trough out in the pasture, but I think I would have noticed if it took 8 million gallons of water to raise one steer.

  29. @Magnus

    “…I’m buying evian shares…”

    Spell ‘Evian’ backwards, and then tell me how many bottles of mineral water you buy at £2 a time…

  30. #55 Allen @ RC 2010 Model-Data Comparisions Comment Section

    I was trying to post this at RC, in support of Allen, who made the heretical statement that in the last dacde, global temperatures have slowed down. Needless to say, this post never passed the “censors”, but has some relevance here. So here is the “attempted” RC post.

    Allen
    As per your comments on the flattened temperature slope over the past decade or so, here are a couple of graphs which might help. They show the HadCRUT3gl global temperature with two different MOV “spans” of 10 & 30 yrs. Two additional comparative filters use a 0.1 & 0.03 cyc/yr “cut-off” respectively. The two filters were a 2-pole Butterworth ( zero ripple Chebushev) “filtfilt” and a Fourier convolution.

    The top graph uses 10 yr (0.1 cyc/yr) filters to include higher freq., while the 30 yr (0.03 cyc/yr) provides longer period information. From the 10 yr. plot, one can see the ‘flattening” you mentioned. It also seems to extend farther in time then previous “toppings”. The second point, the top graph show a similarity of the ~1870 – ~1940 to the ~1940 – 2010 period. One could do a correlation to get a qualitative value, but they sure look very similar. Considering the accuracy of the measurements, the peak to peak change of the ~60 cycle wave also quite close.

    The bottom graph shows the primary ~60 yr. cycle, and it shows the decreasing slope over the past ~15 years, indicating a possible topping. The question then is, if the CO2 is driving the warming, the slope should be increasing, but it’s not.

    My thought is that there is a longer period wave in here, that’s causing the upward trend. Unfortunately with the limited data it’s hard to prove one way or another.

  31. As tty suggested, beef raised in our area (North New Zealand) is mostly from rain. In addition we live in a hilly area where the top soil is thin and not very rich. It is only suited for growing grass or trees. Any attempt to grow grains etc would see poor yields and what top soil is left quickly wash away into the sea. We have plenty of Pine tree plantations so growing beef or dairy is the best use for it.

  32. I didn’t occur to Moonbat that cattle, like the rest of us don’t “consume” water. We merely use it to wet our insides and then put it back where it came from. Cows actually recycle 100% of the water they consume (99% anyway. The last bit ends up as steam inside my barbeque).

  33. Monbiot’s predictions are just a re-hashing of the same pablum that Paul Ehrlich has been pushing since the 1960s with the same incorrect results.

    Doomsayers never seemed to get called to task for incorrect predictions (except when Ehrlich paid off Julian Simon for the wager that Ehrlich lost).

  34. “Every kilogram of beef we consume, according to research by the agronomists David Pimental and Robert Goodland, requires around 100,000 litres of water”

    Anyone who regurgitates such rubbish should immediately be dismissed for showing such a poor understanding of the world around them. Has he not heard of the hydroglical cycle, or conservation of mass / energy or realise you cannot remove water from the earth unless your firing it into space!

    If a cow consumed 100,000 litres of water and didnt return it to the environment it would weigh 100,000kg and have a mass of 100m3!!! Those numbers dont sound right me, of yes thats right, cows urinate and release moisture through their skin and breath, the remaining water retained in their blood is consumed by humans and then released in the same manner.

    Yes a 100,000 litres of water may pass through a cow in its life time, but most is released back to the environment, if a cow weights 1000kg than it probably contains about 700 litres of water, all of which will be released back to the environment following its consumption (0r if it dies and rots). This is shamless tactics to scare the foolish into following some green agenda to avoid beef, science doesnt come into it!

    Even if you irrigate for dairy herds, the water infiltrates to groundwater or evaporates, it isnt lost, it comes back again! You can only move water, you cant get rid of it!!!!!

    Please please please stop talking about how much water ‘x’ uses to raise!!!

  35. “”””” tty says:
    January 24, 2011 at 1:42 pm
    Just how much farming is actually based on water from aquifers by the way? Almost all farming in the temperate zone and in monsoon areas is rain-based. Most irrigation agriculture is rain-based too, although the rain has often fallen far away.
    About the only exceptions I can think of is oasis agriculture in desert areas and stock-keeping in the Great Artesian Basin of Australia and in some parts of the American West. “””””

    Well California, would be one of the major farming States; I believe we produce more milk and cheese, than any of the cheesehead states of the mid west; Wisconsin for example. And we also hava a whole bunch of beef cattle raising in feedlots. The central valley of Califonia is almost one giant aquifer. The whole of the Sierra sends water dwon its slopes to sink into the central valley soils; so pumping from wells is very common. Of course the farmers would rather not pay the elctric bill or diesel bill so they will gladly take all the surface water they can grab at peanuts prices, rather than tap into their wells.

    But Moonbat is not the only water nutcake. On Sunday, I watched a “Celebrity” skiing tournament, from some place called “Deer Valley” (never heard of it), and this whole show broadcast on CBS as I recall, was for the (financial) benefit of some outfit called “Water Caretakers” or “Water Keepers” or words to that effect, which is a wholly owned creation of Robert F Kennedy Junior; and featured him and his busibody sister skiing on the bunny slopes at this Deer valley place, in what was pourported to be a slalom race. To provide some actual skiing, they had some has been retired US skiiers; one each on each of the frour “Teams” As I recall, the Mahre brothers, and Tommy Moe, as well as a former lady Olympic skiier.

    The biggest advertiser on this “green” program was Ford Motor Company; a company that Kennedy would legilate out of business, if he had th4e power to. Talk about a self agrandizing scam. I almost called the CBS affiliate to complain about their not in the public interest programming.

    If these rich toffs, want to provide water to parched regions of the world; then why are they wasting time and money skiing on the stuff at some playboy resort.

  36. One says: “misanthrope”
    Another says: “propagandists”
    Another says: “politicians” (usually lefties)
    Another says: “climate scientist”

    I am not sure which, if any applies best to Monbiot. He is certainly a clever fellow, I will give him that. It menas he knows what he is doing and what the implications of saying it are. For example several docu-dramas on how the Himalayan glaciers are all going to be gone soon and when that happens the Mekong River (etc) will dry up and SE Asia will become a desert. Other than being bad at calendar math I presume he thinks it doesn’t rain in SE Asia.

    What to do? Stop buying the Guardian I guess. I see the BBC gives the Guardian 100 UKP per actual purchasing customer per year. That’s amazing. Are they into this together?

  37. I wonder if Monbiot practices what he preaches and lives on nothing but homegrwon organic carrots and lettuce…

  38. Lol, dodgy. SELLING… Not buying, although if moonbat is a true oracle it won’t be overpriced at 2 pounds.

  39. If those who go about proclaiming humans are going to bring about the end of the world would just remove themselves (they claim to be human too) from the world – the rest of us might actually believe they were sincere in their concern for the planet instead of possessing ulterior motives.

  40. Monbiot was co-founder, with closet Islamo-fascist and Saddam ally George Galloway, of Britain’s Respect Party which is the official alliance of socialists and Islamists in the UK. That’s all you need to know about Monbiot’s belief in austerity and going green.

  41. Actually, there may well be a food “crisis” proclaimed by the media within the next year.

    The cause will be more the diversion of land from food to biofuels, but why sweat the details.

  42. “Monbiot is not a racist. He is not even a neo-Malthusian.”

    But he is getting rich off pushing fear and hysteria about Climate Change.

    Who needs a reputation as a good journalist when you are rich.

    He’s called The Moonbat for a reason.

  43. Gentlemen

    Regards Mr. Monbiot’s claim we are in a “crises” due to a “depletion of both phosphate fertilizer”. Not true. We currently have a 100 year supply of minable phosphate ore.

    The problem is not one of excessive resource “depletion”. Our current problem is that we have not invested in sufficient R&D to increase the conversion of phosphate ore to phosphate fertilizer and/or to enable mining of currently un-minable phosphate resources.

    Between 1936 to approximately ~1990 major advances in the production of fertilizer were developed by the United State’s Tennessee Valley Authority’s (TVA) at its Fertilizer Development Center in Muscle Shoals, Alabama. By the early 1990’s 80% of the world fertilizer was produced with TVA technology. Unfortunately, Congress defunded the TVA Center as a cost saving measure. Consequently, major advancements in commercial fertilizer production came to an abrupt halt. A few, very underfunded, research centers have survived; but, none have matched the productivity of the TVA labs.

    Currently only about 30% if mined phosphate ore makes to agricultural fields. The potential for improving production yields and/or enabling the processing of currently un-minable sources is enormous. Examples include the processing of ores with high concentrations of calcite and dolomite. I was working in this area at the time the TVA Center was closed.

    I’d love to re-activate the TVA lab and win the Green Revolution a 2nd time. (It was fun the first time round). Figure were talking a 250 man team with roughly 40-50 million/year in operating cost plus say 250-500 million in capital cost over 10 years – capital for commercial-scale proof of concept and commercial acceptance by private companies. Problem solved in 10 years with fast track – 20 years with slow track and/or setbacks.

    Solving the problem is a heck of a lot better than whining that “others” must sacrifice. I can’t stand defeatist and Eco-fascist like Mr. Monbiot’s. Just solve the production problems for Christ sake

    Regards,
    Kforestcat

    P.S. Some inroads to improving phosphate production are ongoing. Results and commercial viability to be seen.

  44. george – u almost kept my trust when u wrote the following, despite including some extraordinary attacks on people who are properly sceptical about any scientific hypothosis or theory:

    25 Nov 2009: Guardian: George Monbiot: Pretending the climate email leak isn’t a crisis won’t make it go away

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2009/nov/25/monbiot-climate-leak-crisis-response

    george – it was u more than anyone in the MSM who convinced me that 2,500 independent climate scientists had independently studied independent data and come to the same conclusion – namely that humans had added too much carbon dioxide to the atmosphere and this had resulted in an unprecedented warming of the globe that would be catastrophic in the near future unless we reduced our own carbon dioxide emissions.

    george – weren’t u embarrassed by noam chomsky’s remark in his “death knell for the species” interview: ” There was an article in Bloomberg BusinessWeek, you know – not a radical rag exactly. They’re running through the new Republicans coming to Congress and they’re worried about them.” don’t u and other CAGW gatekeepers constantly tell the public that big business is against doing anything about CAGW?

    george – if big business was against CAGW and the actions u say are necessary, why aren’t they sponsoring the sceptical blogs?

    george – why weren’t u embarrassed when michael mann’s hockey stick eliminated past warming? not having had a scientific education, i actually believed mann’s graph took into account such periods and properly accounted for them.

    needless to say, u lost my trust.

  45. Steven Kopits says:

    Rising food prices will make Americans eat perhaps a bit less, or a bit less well. For the global poor, say Haitains or peoples of sub-Saharan Africa, it can be quite a problem. Increasing food prices will–indeed, are–putting them into an existential bind. They may simply eat less, when they do not yet even eat enough.

    The solution then, is to make sure the unfortunate have more money. Then they can afford to pay more for food.

    Sub-Saharan Africa is capable of feeding itself off its own resources. But they desperately need political and economic stability to do so. Me going vegan won’t help them one little bit while they are ruled by dictators and try economic policies that fail (collectivism and subsistence farming are the dangers, not the solutions).

    Not enough people in the world are literate. The solution is to teach them, not for us to stop reading.

    Too many people beat their wives. The solution is not for me to divorce.

    Too many people are starving. The solution is not for me to join them.

  46. DJ says:
    January 24, 2011 at 2:02 pm
    I have steak credits for sale.

    I promise not to eat a 12oz filet mignon in exchange for a $32 “Steak & Trade” coupon. The way it works is: You send me $32, and I send you a coupon which allows you to eat a 8-12oz filet mignon steak (the cost of the steak to you is additional). Should you choose an alternative cut of beef, the coupon value will be increased accordingly to a 10% maximum.

    Proceeds from the Steak & Trade program will be used to fund the purchase of renewable foodstuffs, such as truffles or saffron. (We are also planning on sequestering CO2 bound in grape juice in 750ml bottles long term at a later date)

    Although I have yet to formalize the system, I am accepting deposits for the coupons, and as soon as I have them printed they will be forwarded. Please note that they will be sold only in blocks of 10.

    We need to get together. I have arrangements with some local monasteries and convents to sell ‘infidelity offsets’.

  47. Hugo M – so are we firing the ‘phosphat’ into space then? I can see a problem with mineral leech into the oceans but the only truly limited resources we have are Helium which can escape into space and radioactives which are naturally decaying and occasionally broken down.

  48. Simple solution to equalizing humidity (hence rainfall) around the globe…

    Raise cattle in regions with excessive rainfall, then ship the cattle to regions with damaging droughts….and release the sequestered moisture by grilling.

    We could restore the flora and fauna of countless areas decimated by centuries of drought. Too bad the Anasazi aren’t around to witness the restoration of their land.
    We could call it “geo-cowgineering”.

  49. He wasn’t wrong.
    His just had the wrong mechanism–and villains.
    Now, If we continue to use arable land to feed our automobiles, we’ll all starve in (insert time limit here)…

  50. So Monbiot’s t-shirt reads “fight poverty not war”, I wonder if on the back it reads “without using electricity”?

    And what exactly are you doing to fight poverty, George? Writing “to raise awareness” is my guess.

  51. “Monbiot is not a racist. He is not even a neo-Malthusian. ”

    I have my doubts about the accuracy of these statements, but even if they are correct, they don’t rule out the obvious and overriding explanation: Monbiot is an idiot.

  52. 100,000 kilos of water to produce a cow? Sounds reasonable. Oh, a KILO of beef ahaha hahaha! Imbecile. Well, he has an MA in Zoology according to Wiki so who am I to laugh? Hang on… an MA? in Zoology? Hmmm… I may be a brain dead BSc Biochem grad but shouldn’t that be an MSc? I think I see the problem here… Master of the Art of Bullshit maybe.

  53. Just one year to go to check on the accuracy of this prediction, claimed by warming proponent George Monbiot in 2002.

    Haunting the Library writes:
    “Within as little as 10 years, the world will be faced with a choice: arable farming either continues to feed the world’s animals or it continues to feed the world’s people. It cannot do both.The impending crisis will be accelerated by the depletion of both phosphate fertiliser and the water used to grow crops. Every kilogram of beef we consume, according to research by the agronomists David Pimental and Robert Goodland, requires around 100,000 litres of water. Aquifers are beginning the run dry all over the world, largely because of abstraction by farmers.”

    Well, we have right now skyrocketing food prices, despite the worst recession since the Great Depression.

    Just a few graphs:

    Food price index:

    http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=food-price-index&months=180

    Sugar:

    http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=sugar&months=180

    Beef:

    http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=beef&months=180

    Chicken:

    http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=chicken&months=240

    Wheat:

    http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=wheat&months=120

    Maize(corn):

    http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=corn&months=120

    Etcetera…

    Now see the results.
    See what happened in Tunisia…

    New dawn for Tunisia

    Tunisian Revolution First in Arab States for Decades – Democracy NOW!

    And Algeria…

    Riots erupt across Algeria against prices, unemployment

    Now unrest is spreading in North Africa like fire:

    11 Killed, Hundreds Hurt In Regional Protests

    To me it seems that Monbiot was right.

  54. “Every kilogram of beef we consume, according to research by the agronomists David Pimental and Robert Goodland, requires around 100,000 litres of water.”

    I challenge that statement on the grounds of common sense.☺

  55. “Well, we have right now skyrocketing food prices, despite the worst recession since the Great Depression.”

    It’s amazing what foolish use of land for biofuels and cold weather will do.

  56. “It is the anti-immigrant and anti-human agenda of the people who warn of “scarce resources” and “too many people” that is the real danger, not the idle bravado and loose chatter of a bunch of guys on an internet chat-room.”

    Hear hear, beware of any misanthrope who preaches of the ‘human viral infestation’. We are nature’s Beings. Digging up the carbon and putting it back from whence it came; interred by the plant life in a suffocating spiral of death. Until Gaia created human with a brain to create fire and burn. Replenish the air with this trace compound and green the planet again. Halleluliah! Irony overload, goodnight.

  57. @ From Peru

    Are you serious? Over a ten year period the price of every single commodity on earth has fallen in real terms WHEN YOU INCLUDE INFLATION!

    In ten years from now it will be the same, all commodities in real terms will be cheaper beacuse there will be more than ever. There is more oil now than there was in 1975 when I was told as a youngster that we would have no oil left in 30 years. Don’t underestimate the children of Gaia!

    Smooth the data, profiteering comes in waves.

    K?

  58. “Sonya Porter says:
    January 24, 2011 at 1:56 pm”

    Although large areas of land are in flood or have recently flooded, Australia is still the second most driest continent on the planet. There have been many scare stories about water running out for as long as I can recall. Statements like these could have a basis in the fact that ~1% of all water on the planet is naturally occuring fresh water.

    “From Peru says:
    January 24, 2011 at 5:04 pm”

    People who are cold, hungry, unemployed, getting poorer, being charged more and paying more taxes, largely due to political corruption, are very usually angry people.

    Students/unemployed in London, unemployed in Ireland/Spain/Portugal/Greece/Italy etc etc…EU politicians better watch out.

  59. No one would have listened to him if he’d said 100 years instead of 10. That’s what alarmism is all about … they have to lie to get attention.

  60. All of this CAGW nonsense reminds me of the famous “polywater scare” back in the early 1960’s! Very similar = panic mentality, widespread research, and eventual skepticism with ultimate debunking of the concept.

    This is a very short article worth reading:

    http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/ATG/polywater.html

    “Over the next several years, hundreds of papers appeared in the scientific literature describing the properties of what soon came to be known as polywater. Theorists developed models, supported by some experimental measurements, in which strong hydrogen bonds were causing water to polymerize.

    Some even warned that if polywater escaped from the laboratory, it could autocatalytically polymerize all of the world’s water.”

  61. If anyone wasn’t convinced by now, this kind of rubbish is in fact the end game of the entire CAGW enterprise. Monbiot’s statements are no less outrageous than Hansen’s recent screed about climate change for the Chinese, or any of the other rot-gut press releases we’re treated to on a daily basis. All of the billions being spent funding the Climate Industry is not about research and science but about fundamentally transforming our society and forcing us to surrender our freedoms. If we don’t fight this now, it will, I fear, be too late once laws start being passed banning everything from light bulbs, fuels for powerplants, food people think is bad for us, and…wait, that’s happening already!!

  62. richard verney says:
    January 24, 2011 at 1:43 pm

    Anthony
    You have recently published a number of articles maskerading as research which demonstrates how these propagandists (for they are not scientists) are anti-human. The nub of the CO2 issue is that if we adopt the proposed cure (to halt nearly all CO2 emissions within the next 30 to 40 years), this will result in hundresds of thousands if not millions of deaths and will condemn most of the developing world to live in abject povery without electrity for at least many generations to come. What could be more anti-human than that?
    =================
    I really can’t see how the economic collapse they are trying to engineer could be limited to just millions of deaths. I rather think we’re talking billions, here.

  63. wws says:
    January 24, 2011 at 1:40 pm
    _________________________________________

    How true, but there needs be an urgency to their collective message.
    They know their black flame burns short.

  64. Patrick Davis says:
    January 24, 2011 at 5:47 pm

    Aww…you beat me to it!

    But Patrick is absolutely right. Go to the UN website it is all right there. I haven’t visited recently but if memory serves the estimate is +11% of Earth’s surface is arable and we have affected just a tad over 3% due to agricultural endeavors / food production. More often than not people go hungry due to political corruption, hoarding despots, and corporate conglomerates. I’ll try to post the link if I can find it quick…gotta go.

  65. Haunting the Library quotes Monbiot as writing:
    ” … Aquifers are beginning the run dry all over the world, largely because of abstraction by farmers.”
    Umm. Are these virtual acquifers with virtual water? Must be, if they have been “abstracted” by farmers. No worries there: virtual or ideal abstracted aquifers with virtual or ideal abstracted water never run dry.

    According to wikipedia: “In philosophical terminology, abstraction (noun) is the thought process wherein ideas[3] are distanced from objects.”

    Perhaps he meant “extraction” ?

  66. Couldn’t find it at UN this time (?), link is for Wikipedia (I know, apologies):

    Arable land as a percent of total land mass (excluding Antarctica…duh) is just shy of 20%.
    Utilization just a hair over 7%.

    This is from the World Soil Resources Report done in ’94 so it’s also dated. I don’t have time to research this better…guess I shoulda kept my mouth closed (or hands in my pockets).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arable_land

  67. The article from ‘Haunting the Library’ is an example of guilt by association. The fact that someone who agrees with Monbiot that veganism is a good idea also thinks that immigration is a bad idea is irrelevant to Monbiot’s arguments, which should be challenged on their own merits. The article quotes the Southern Poverty Law Center claiming that something is a ‘hate group’. The SPLC says that about everyone they disagree with. Climate skeptics should be skeptical about linking to this kind of thing.

  68. @ From Peru

    You need to put those graphs in real terms… in case you hadn’t noticed the US dollar has taken a hammering in the last couple of years due to excessive “quantitative easing.” A few years back the Aussie dollar was at 50-60 US cents for instance, and now it is hovering around parity. Therefore in Aussie dollar terms you can slash those prices (for the last year) in half.

    It’s all a question of perspective. The US dollar is simply devaluing on the world stage which is the least painful way to ease the burden of your international debt woes. For more information see the likes of John Mauldin:

    At least the USA has a currency it can devalue… no such luck for the likes of Italy, Spain, Portugal etc who are all tied in to the Euro. To paraphrase Alan Harper in 2.5 men:

    “They are a so screwed!”

  69. Monbiot with his head in the bowl looking for corn to recycle. He should watch out, that seat could fall on his head and it get it stuck in there.

  70. CRS, Dr.P.H. mentioned the polywater scare:
    “Some even warned that if polywater escaped from the laboratory, it could autocatalytically polymerize all of the world’s water.”

    Sounds like Vonnegut’s Ice Nine.

    And just because it hasn’t happened yet doesn’t mean I’m going to stop being terror-stricken about the possibility!!

  71. I think this is fun! 100000 liters per kilo? A calf grows to 1600lb in two years. That is about 1 kilo per day. Hmm that is about 1 Liter or a bit more than a quart per second. They must be hooked up to hoses then?

    Sorry, too funny. I spent two weeks on a dairy farm. Don’t remember the cows being hooked up to hoses except to be milked twice a day…

  72. “Obviously the only predictions that one will never have to apologize for will be those for a time frame much greater than the lifespans of any potential responders.”

    There is another place where the AGW crowd has failed. They claim that the current flat temperature trend is meaningless because it takes 30 years for a trend to become meaningful. But it turns out that you can compensate for several elements of variability in the data such as ENSO, thereby reducing the variability and making the data statistically meaningful in only 15 years. Well, we are now just two years from having a “meaningful” flat trend according to the definitions of the warmers themselves. In 2013 Tamino is going to have to eat crow.

  73. “Gaylon says:
    January 24, 2011 at 8:31 pm”

    Whats the possiblity that the info you refer to has been “disappeared”. I mean, its not like it has not happened in recent years eh?

  74. JAS says:
    January 24, 2011 at 5:34 pm
    @ From Peru

    “Are you serious? Over a ten year period the price of every single commodity on earth has fallen in real terms WHEN YOU INCLUDE INFLATION!”

    Nope. Peru and Chile were greatly favoured by the rise in metal commodities,because our main activity is metallic mining. If the “true” value of commodities were really “falling”, then my country would not have benefited at all from the commodity boom.

    But (big but) food prices are not metal prices. Higher metal prices stimulate investent and mining-industrial development creating wealth. Higher food prices create poverty, by reducing the buying power of the people, specially the poor people.

    “In ten years from now it will be the same, all commodities in real terms will be cheaper beacuse there will be more than ever.”

    You could not escape so easily from the laws of physics. Resources deplete with time. That is an unquestionable fact.

    “There is more oil now than there was in 1975 when I was told as a youngster that we would have no oil left in 30 years. Don’t underestimate the children of Gaia!”

    In the USA oil production had been falling steadily from the 1970s. Global oil production has been in a plateau since 5 years ago.Oil production from existing fields is dropping at 6% rate per year. New fields could not offset such a decline.

    See here:

    Giant oil field decline rates and their influence on world oil production

    http://www.tsl.uu.se/uhdsg/Publications/GOF_decline_Article.pdf

    “Smooth the data, profiteering comes in waves.”

    It seems that what comes in waves are the oil and food shocks. In 2007-2008 there was a food and oil crisis, that was olnly stopped by the even bigger financial crisis that caused a collapse in worldwide demand. Now that the demand is recovering, the food and oil prices are skyrocketing again.

    Again, seeing the news seems to give reason to Monbiot: the present growth is unsustainable, as in this cartoon:

  75. Bulldust says:
    January 24, 2011 at 8:37 pm

    To paraphrase Alan Harper in 2.5 men:

    “They are a so screwed!”

    ========================================

    Never do that.

  76. Todd says:
    January 24, 2011 at 3:47 pm
    But think of the Moral Superiority we will have!! ;)

    ========================================

    You are correct. We can eat and drink moral superiority and live long and prosperous lives.

  77. Molon Labe says:
    January 24, 2011 at 1:45 pm
    “Maybe he will be right because it will be too cold to grow crops.”

    Plenty of crops can be grown in cold climates – we’ll just have to get used to eating plenty of swede!

  78. Monboit’s, and other alarmist claims have always come down to there being too many people on the planet. He could always take the next step—–. None of them do.

  79. Jeremy – a couple more cracking quotes for you..
    ‘As everything which can be invented, has been invented, we ask the government to disband this office.’ Head of the UK Patent Office, 1896.
    ‘There may be a worldwide market for perhaps four or five computers.’ Can’t remember who said it – but it was in 1946.

  80. The trouble is – these eco-nuts get listened to by governments – and just look at where that’s got us..!

  81. beesaman says:
    January 24, 2011 at 2:15 pm

    You are so right!

    Monbiot, is like them all, an over-privilged middle-class privately educated arrogant snob, who probably has no need to work due to his background, he does so because he wants to. It’s amazing, I’d just like to hear one who started from humble beginnings,who worked their own way to success & financial independence, & then make the stand they do. There are some, but most of those are in the entertainment business, so they don’t count as they like to pull the ladder up after themselves as their egos are so huge! Why is it that these people make ooodles of dosh, live in absolute luxery with a home in every town all over the world, then lecture everyone else on the folly of our profligacy?

  82. Monbiot is a journalist

    I can understand politicians or scientists predictions being questioned but journalists?

  83. I don’t really understand why the word racist is relevant (even if it is used to say he is not racist) or where the anti-immigrant charge comes from.

    What did I miss?

  84. “It is the anti-immigrant and anti-human agenda of the people who warn of “scarce resources” and “too many people” that is the real danger…”.

    Based on current usage, poor efficiency, greed, corruption, etc., we have already passed the optimum population for this planet. (http://www.optimumpopulation.org/) I consider the inexorable rise in human numbers, and the lack of progress in attitudes and behaviour, to be far more scary that the infinitesimally remote possibility that the AGWists may be right.

  85. Sorry about previous rather facetious comment.

    I notice there are several comments from people who have kept cattle. I had some cattle in Australia; I don’t remember having to force-hose water down their gullets! Monbiot’s quoted 100,000 litres per kg of meat is so ludicrous that I can’t even laugh at it. They also fertilised the land at the same time as ‘watering’ it.

  86. Well – I tell you what – I’M going to make a prediction. Hold me to it.
    By 2015 – perhaps sooner – we will be getting major power cuts here in the UK.
    Why..?
    The EU wants us to shut our ‘polluting’ power stations.
    Due to the last (Labour) government listening without question to the ‘green’ lobby, we are fifteen years behind on building new nuclear power stations.
    The present government (‘We are going to be the greenest ever..’ – I wonder if David Cameron realised the ‘other’ meaning of that word – i.e. naive..??) is still blundering on with wind farms – under the delusion that the wind will suddenly ‘play ball’ – and blow when demand is high – unlike what it has done for four of the last eight weeks – exactly the opposite. This has created the farcical situation where, early in December 2010, demand exceeded 60000MW for the first time ever – at precisely the time when an anticyclone covered the British Isles – and as a consequence wind power achieved a massive 0.1% of demand. At no time in the last two months has wind power delivered more than 2.5% of demand – yet the Department of Energy and Climate Change (yeah – I know) want to be generating THIRTY PERCENT of our electricity from ‘renewable sources’ by 2030. All of which we are subsidising in our energy bills.
    So – you read it here first…

  87. I fully concur, that Doomsday mongers like Mr. Monbiot are always wrong, as they don’t understand the resilience and adaptiveness of democracy and free markets.

    However, before you fly into space laughing about the 100.000 l of water to produce 1 kg of beef, let me tell you, that an internationally recognized average is approximately 16.000 l / kg of boneless beef (with a huge variation though). Look up Virtual Water or Water Foodprint on the net.

    http://www.waterfootprint.org/Reports/Hoekstra_and_Chapagain_2006.pdf

    The main component is the feed for the animal. 1 kg of grain cost about 1000 l consumptive water use, mainly evaporation.

    Of course there is not a global water problem for food production. We merely need to grow crops in rainy areas and not in deserts and then trade “virtual water” by import/export of food. Furthermore, we could consume more seaweed, which can be cultured in saltwater.

    Denmark, a rainy country, exports about 10.000.000.000.000 l of virtual water as pigmeat each year. This corresponds to 1/3 of the Danish rain pr. yr. The net export is much lower as the pig farmers import much feed for their pigs.

  88. Pimental and Goodland cannot be Agronomists; their astonishing level of ignorance about the hydrological cycle demonstrates they know nothing about their claimed specialism which is quite deeply involved with water use. All of the Agronomists I have met were rational, intelligent scientists who just would not make such a fundamental error. Perhaps the Moonbat accidentally misquoted them, or misread the numbers. Such a concerned and morally upright Marxist wouldn’t tell fibs about such things, would he?

  89. I made this comment on HautingTheLibrary’s blog but it was moderated out.

    I have no time for AGW, or most environmentalism and not much for Monbiot.

    Nevertheless, this article is mostly weasly. It is guilt by association. In fact it is guilt by association at two removes. Monbiot quotes a scientist ( who turns out to be wrong on the facts but that is not the real implied underlying charge). Scientist has views on immigration which some environmentalists share, and which make sense in the context of local activism in California ( if you think California too crowded, why support Immigration – the real question is for Sierra Club members who are pro-immigration).

    This scientist shares a platform with real racists. Maybe that is also a mistake on his part but has nothing to do with Monbiot, who wasnt there. From all this we learn at the end that Monbiot is not a racist though we spend half the article on racists. This kind of argument is well poisoning.

    Maybe Monbiot quotes from a guy some day who once shared a platform with a pedophile, but we are not saying that he is a pedophile.

    ( We are, all, of course making the internal association. Like saying “Dont Think About Elephants).

    Totally weasly nonsense..

  90. Yes, science and technology, coupled with the free market forces, can feed many more billions of people than we have now (there’s nothing more inventive and productive than greed).

    When I drive through the suburbs of modern big cities, though, be it in America, in Turkey or in Russia, I have a sharp disconcerting feeling that something is terribly wrong.

    All those countless people in squalid apartments, mostly going trough the witless motions repeated from town to town, from generation to generation: do they really enjoy the fleeting miracle of life? Do they employ any of their brains’ powerful abilities? Do they, really, NEED THEMSELVES?

    Wouldn’t it be better if there were less people having much more resources and free time on their hands, per person? Isn’t this relentless reproduction exactly what dictators and plutocrats want, afraid to lose their ill-gotten power, striving to keep the lid on what any individual can achieve within his or her lifespan?

    The more there are people, the less is the probability of successful individual self-expression, invention, imaginative thinking, breakthrough, beauty. The more people, the more often mediocrity wins, squeezing out talent and innovation, institutionalizing and standardizing everything to death, regulating and controlling, taxing and persecuting, taking away and giving empty promises in return, making life gray, miserable, depressing, unrewarding. Taking life out of life.

    No. Something is wrong with this picture, neo-Malthusians of Monbiot’s persuasion notwithstanding. Something must give, it cannot continue forever. I am sure that the evolution will find a way to limit the population explosion. It always finds a way, usually a terrible one.

  91. I am no longer interested in anything Monbiot has to say.
    I thankfully join the ranks of Dr. Richard North, the man who challenges the EU every single day and refers to any politician of standing in support of the EU as “Euroslime” and who calls Monbiot consequently George Monbiot, (aka Moonbat, although “ocean-going shit” will do) everytime he has towrite his name.

    If George Monbiot, (aka Moonbat, although “ocean-going shit” will do) really was so worried about the world food situation why didn’t he protest when the EU decided per decree to mix diesel and car fuel with 12% crop based biofuels.
    He had almost 10 years time to fill his pathetic paper with articles protesting this scam.
    George Monbiot, (aka Moonbat, although “ocean-going shit” will do) is a hypocrite and he truly is George Monbiot, (aka Moonbat, although “ocean-going shit” will do)

  92. If you want to silence somebody who’s making the claim that making some amount of beef or milk or eggs “uses up” some amount of water, ask them if they learned about the water cycle in elementary school. Of course, it’s quite possible that they didn’t, in which case you may need to explain that water does not actually get used up — fortunately for us all!

  93. Louise says:
    January 25, 2011 at 2:19 am
    ‘Monbiot is a journalist
    I can understand politicians or scientists predictions being questioned but journalists?’

    Louise is a troll who has forgotten that Paul Nurse decided to interview Delingpole on climate science in Horizon last night (BBC) rather than a scientist. Sauce for the goose etc.

  94. While Monbiot may be crying doom and is sowing FUD on many fronts, calling him on 100,000 L of water to produce 1 kg of beef is a miss. My 24-foot above ground swimming pool holds 50,000 L of water. A typical cow will produce about 200 kg of beef. Given the amount of water a typical ruminant has to drink, the quantity used for processing the beef, how much it takes to produce the feed, I would say 100,000 L/kg is way too low.

    Fact is, 100,000 L of water is unlikely to affect the hydrological cycle anywhere, especially considering most of it ends up back where it came from.

  95. David says:
    January 25, 2011 at 2:42 am

    Too many politicians have relatives with investments in wind power, and plans for employment therein on retirement, for the huge renewable obligation scam to be stopped.
    Cameron, the neo-Blairite, and Huhne, whose liberality with our money is unquestionable, are negotiating a pan-European super grid to interconnect continental wind farms.
    This cunning plan will enable us to import wind power from Denmark, Germany, etc., at times when our winds fall still, whilst enabling them to continue to fleece the populace through the R.O. certificates.
    The phrase “lambs to the slaughter” springs to mind, together with an irresistible urge to check my wallet for the little that they have left me, at the thought of those two incompetents negotiating with the den of thieves in Brussels.
    “Count your fingers after shaking hands with a continental” may be considered zenophobic today, but in 30 years exporting to Europe, that advice was invaluable; little that I read today with regard to the EU leads me to suspect that anything has remotely changed.

  96. I’m jumping past 100 postings, so maybe this has been covered before.

    Pimental has written very knowledgeably about the production of ethanol as fuel and concluded that the energy used in its production is just about what one would get back if that ethanol were used as fuel. I respect him for that.

    And I question that it is automatically wrong to question limiting population and immigration. Since my wife is from another country, I am obviously not automaticaly against all immigration! But we must be sure that we don’t import the problems and conflicts of the originating countries, and we are seeing too much of that already. As for population, too many people will eventually limit available resources, including food and water, to say nothing of overcrowing the cities. We can’t continue with endless population growth, otherwise we will end up like the famous Petri dish of medium that has been completely taken over by bacterial growth so that all die. We have to have a balance between political correctness and a clear vision of what future action is needed.

    IanM

  97. “Monbiot is not a racist. He is not even a neo-Malthusian”

    It’s simples really, Moonbat is a “headbanger”

  98. Louise says:
    January 25, 2011 at 2:19 am
    Monbiot is a journalist

    Louise, Journalists report the news. They do not make predictions. He may have a job as a journalist, but he is no journalist.

  99. wws says:
    January 24, 2011 at 1:40 pm
    Monbiot is realizing that his only real mistake – a mistake that his fellow travelers are now correcting – was to make his prediction for 10 years and not for 100, or 1000. Obviously the only predictions that one will never have to apologize for will be those for a time frame much greater than the lifespans of any potential responders.

    wwws, you are wrong, read carefully, “In as little as 10 years” States a minimum of 10, could be as many as a million.

  100. Evidently people have NOT learned from Malthus and Paul Erlichman.

    As an ENGINEER who makes things WORK…I say “to HELL” with people as this.
    Or perhaps a better fate, as indicated below.

    Sorry, I hang up my civilized credentials in this matter. These people are DANGEROUS in their own way. I struggle greatly, I find myself “unforgiving” for such arrogance and stupidity. Perhaps it is worthwhile to point out that they are all “witches”. A little WATER on them and they will melt away, “Look what you’ve done to my beautiful evilness…!!” (Yes, that is an allusion to a famous film.)

  101. John Law says:
    January 25, 2011 at 8:59 am
    “Monbiot is not a racist. He is not even a neo-Malthusian”

    It’s simples really, Moonbat is a “headbanger”

    John. sorry but i must take exception.
    Having spent many hours in the mosh pit “banging my head”i must protest in the strongest terms;)
    What moonbat is , if written down,would never be passed by the mods.Unless of course we re-visit the phrase…..see you next tuesday;)

  102. Great work Anthony. Let’s continue to keep track of these and other predictions as the years go on. It’s the best way to illustrate the error of these “scientists”.

  103. Steve G says:
    January 25, 2011 at 6:46 pm
    “Great work Anthony. Let’s continue to keep track of these and other predictions as the years go on. It’s the best way to illustrate the error of these “scientists”.”

    You can recycle the entire stack of warmist claims.

    There won’t be a single claim that will be met.

  104. “They’re Picanic Baskets, Booboo!”

    Hungry bears, following the sun,
    Chance upon a teeming Vegan run,
    Certified low fat organic edibles,
    Walking, jogging, and cycling for fun,
    And basking, in parked convertibles.

  105. Nano Pope says:
    Hugo M – so are we firing the ‘phosphat’ into space then? I can see a problem with mineral leech into the oceans […]

    Yes, phosphates end up in the oceans and it would be very costly to get them back from there.

  106. Monbiot is not a journalist, he is just a member of the Main Scream Media. That media that keeps on screaming the mantra/meme GLOBAL WARMING GLOBAL WARMING GLOBAL WARMING… even until the planet freezes over.
    The problem is that the Main Scream Media are mistaken for the Main Stream Media, however, though I am not sure if the latter is still in existence.
    The truth can be found, in a discerning way, in the blogosphere in blogs such as WUWT. As a matter of principle I have not bought a newspaper for ages now (sarc on: and thus helping to save the planet). Come to think of it, the Main Scream Media never told us not to buy newspapers to save the planet. I’m sure these mass production paper-printers have an immense carbon footprint, but OTOH they do find babies and daipers to be a threat to the planet. LOL

  107. The encapsulation of this cretinous philosophy of Monbiot’s can be found in the bumper-sticker exhortation that we all “live simply that others may simply live”. Because if I refrain from buying and consuming, what I don’t buy or consume magically appears on the plate of a pauper in Palestine. Right. Anyone who fails to instantly see the fallacy here should be drummed out of public discourse.

    Moonbat was the one who also said in 1999 that flying across the Atlantic is the moral equivalent of child abuse. I believe he is now on a multi-city tour of the US. But I’m sure he is walking from town to town, like a latter-day Jesus in hipster glasses. Right?

  108. I find it disturbing that only two comments yet have brought up the fact that he already withdrew from his vegan activism

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/sep/06/meat-production-veganism-deforestation

    this shows that people should be careful to not become what they despise in others, mindless zealots.
    Monbiot might or might not be an arse but grilling him on outdated positions he himself no longer holds is not a good good way to show higher standards.
    Anthony, please more science and less personal attacks.

  109. Food shortages are certainly a reality but Moonbat did not predict the root causes of this particular reality: Cold and / or cloudy growing seasons, and, the idiocy of wasting edible grains on making ethanol for fuel.

  110. I havn’t read all the comments but in case no one elase has mentioned it, the 100,000 litres per kilo of beef includes the water used to grow the plant material the cattle eat.

    1 metre of rain per year over 1 hectare equals 10,000,000 litres.

    1 hectare of grass can grow (easily) 1 steer per year producing 250 kg of beef at slaughter. (At 2 years of age after skin, bones and offal are removed.) Please note grass reared animals, reared outdoors grow at rates much lower than corn fed animals in barns.

    Dividing 10,000,000 by 250 gives us

    40,000 litres of water to produce 1 kilo of beef. But since the water comes from rain, who cares?

    Grain fed animals would need more so perhaps the 100,000 litres is about right.

    BTW grain feeding cattle to produse beef is only economic in the US and EU which both have massive agricultural subsidies.

  111. If water is so scarce why is my friends house now floating down the Brisbane river?
    Honestly if water is so scarce we should be forced by Government to drink more beer,
    or they could make it tax deductible, because you are doing something for the environment. Actually with all this water around if we do much more of that for the environment my septic system will over flow………….

    No useful contribution here, move along……

  112. @ Gallier2 –

    I find it even more disturbing that you didn’t bother to check the source that Wattsupwiththat.com gave before you made your accusation. It clearly states, at some length, that Monbiot had already withdrawn his silly statement. There was no point, therefore, in including that statement again.

    Please, Gallier2, more fact-checking in future, and less finger-pointing.

  113. @hauntingthelibrary

    1) A comment below the line is never “more disturbing” than one above the line.
    2) If someone has retracted an idea, why even bring it up?
    3) The visible bit of the WUWT report references the vegan report, most people will read that.
    4) See my previous comment ( moderated on your site) about the spurious associations of racism, and why mentioning his association ( at two removes) from racists is a weasal technique.

    ( And to restate, I am not Monbiot’s fan). This is shoddy nonsense.

Comments are closed.