My View: The California Air resources Board is quickly becoming the most dangerous bureaucratic organization in California. This latest contempt for a public that questions the validity of their mission is way over the top. As the headline says, CARB is actively considering:
…a proposed regulation which would prohibit dishonest statements or submittals offered to the Board or to its staff.
Guess who gets to determine the “dishonesty” of a “statement or submittal” to CARB?
Of course, it’s OK if CARB makes a 340% error of their own while using false data to impose their will on the people of California. And of course it’s OK to publicly flaunt the ugly hubris of the CARB boss Mary Nichols rubbing her glee in the face of the citizens of California that voted for Prop 23. And of course it’s OK to simply demote a CARB “scientist” who lied about his PhD degree obtained from a UPS store rather than fire his fraudulent bureaucratic butt and then stage a cover up about it. But, when a citizen submits some data or opinion to CARB that they may later find questionable? Well, that’s a whole different matter.
What a bunch of self serving, holier than thou, public sector putzes!
Evidently CARB is contemplating a regulation that would enable penalties for what would be judged “dishonest statements or submittals” provided to it or “staff.” I think one can safely assume that it is aimed at curtailing challenges to CARB’s agenda that are based on alternative scientific information and interpretations.
Here’s a message from their listserver, you just have to read this to believe it:
—–Original Message—–
From: owner-arbcombo@listserv.arb.ca.gov
[mailto:owner-arbcombo@listserv.arb.ca.gov] On Behalf Of wfell@arb.ca.gov
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 2:31 PM
To: post-arbcombo@listserv.arb.ca.gov
Subject: arbcombo — Air Resources Board Workshop to Discuss Proposed Regulation Relating to False Statements Made to ARB or its Staff
ARB staff invites you to participate in a workshop on December 1, 2010 to discuss a proposed regulation which would prohibit dishonest statements or submittals offered to the Board or to its staff.
The workshop will provide the public with a chance to discuss the proposed regulation and to provide initial comment and feedback
We welcome your participation in this event.
For further information, please view the web page at http://www.arb.ca.gov/html/falsestatements/falsestatements.htm
which contains regularly updated information.
======================================================================
You are subscribed to one of the lists aggregated to make this particular ARB combination listserve broadcast. To UNSUBSCRIBE:
Please go to http://www.arb.ca.gov/listserv/listserv.php and enter your email address and click on the button “Display Email Lists.”
To unsubscribe, please click inside the appropriate box to uncheck it and go to the bottom of the screen to submit your request. You will receive an automatic email message confirming that you have successfully unsubscribed. Also, please read our listserve disclaimer at http://www.arb.ca.gov/listserv/disclaim.htm .
The energy challenge facing California is real. Every Californian needs to take immediate action to reduce energy consumption. For a list of simple ways you can reduce demand and cut your energy costs, visit the Flex Your Power website at www.fypower.org ..
======================================================================
My source for this email (who shall remain nameless) writes:
An attorney-member of our network, (Roger E. Sowell), who is knowledgeable in environmental law and possesses a strong technical background, had the following initial reaction:
There is a Federal law at 18 USC 1001, that provides for a fine and up to 5 years imprisonment for knowingly and willfully providing false information of a material fact, among several other things, to any part of the Federal government. (I’m paraphrasing here). see e.g. http://vlex.com/vid/sec-statements-entries-generally-19190798
As just a sample of the issues, the key words are:
“Knowingly”
“Willfully”
“False”
“Material”
Each of those words has a specific meaning, usually hammered out in court cases. CARB cannot just arbitrarily choose definitions of such words, to suit their purpose. They must comply with the law and legal precedents. Where this gets very, very interesting is in the definition of “false.” We are dealing with scientific information, and science is fairly fuzzy. There are uncertainties in data measurements, to name merely one of several problem areas, as well as experimental design errors, choice of data analysis methods, interpretation of results, etc.
There are almost always factions of scientists that can be found to support almost any view – although a few viewpoints are appropriately discredited as crackpot. The fact is that new data is discovered or developed; new and better explanations for old data are developed; old theories discarded and new theories put forward, showing that science is not settled and that the definition of “false” is slippery when applied to a statement related to science.
There are other problems with a criminal falsity statute, such as applicability to various situations, and exemptions, also conformity with the Constitution and various standards embodied there. In addition, there are fraud claims that can arise if funding for scientific research led to false statements based upon the research findings.
Also, this could easily be turned around on CARB, by asserting that the “science” they relied on in many of their regulations was false information, knowingly and willfully presented.
Discover more from Watts Up With That?
Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.
We’re doomed if radicals like this ever control all our lives. Doomed.lol
Sorry Anthony, but the sooner California tumbles into the sea the better. Move while you can.
Anthony, are you going to their workshop to voice your complaints? After all it’s only about 2 hr drive.
REPLY: If I can, yes.
Hey, the Californicators are going for the Guiness Book of Records for the Nonsense category. Too bad that the idiots will soon be bankrupt and begging the rest of the Nation for help. California’s majority (liberals/demos/mouth-breathing welfare recipients/illegal aliens) constitutes the perfect example of cognitive dissonance. I hope I don’t have to keep bailing out those morons, but until January, I probably will….
Several years ago I was offered a job in California, 6 figures, to be an environmental compliance manager for a large company. I laughed and said no. Smartest thing I ever did.
It doesn’t relly matter what we, the people, think. The only people the CAGW proponents have to convince are the politicians. No one else matters. Politicians are not necessarily very intelligent and the CAGW mob managed to convince them years ago.
Tthe only thing politicians are interested in (well, apart from money and power) is their seat. Fortunately in a democracy we (still) have the power to get rid of these idiots.
California Uber Alles!
“Zen fascists will control you
100% natural
You will jog for the master race
And always wear the happy face
Close your eyes, can’t happen here
Big Bro’ on white horse is near
The hippies won’t come back you say
Mellow out or you will pay
Mellow out or you will pay!”
Lyrics taken from: http://www.azlyrics.com
jack morrow says:
November 20, 2010 at 5:52 pm
We’re doomed if radicals like this ever control all our lives. Doomed.lol
_______________________________________________________
What do you mean, IF?
Sounds like the question of whether something is “false” could end up in court. That might not be a bad thing — discovery on both sides; full outlay of relevant information on both sides before the court; etc.
I agree with you that CARB is making a mistake with this, but I’m not sure they would want to actually pursue the policy to the end. Too much light could be shed.
It should be pointed out to these dolts that California has lost a million jobs while Texas has gained a million. I wonder why? I second the thought; leave while you can.
Just one minor change required:
Proposed 17 CCR §95020
Prohibition on false statements
(a) In any matter within the jurisdiction of the Board, no person may knowingly and willfully do any of the following when transacting any business with or communicating in any manner with the Board or the Board’s staff:
(1) falsify, conceal, or cover up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact;
(2) make any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation;
(3) make or use any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry; or
(4) omit material facts from a communication with an intent to mislead.
(b) “Writing” means handwriting, typewriting, printing, Photostatting, photographing, photocopying, transmitting by electronic mail or facsimile, and every other means of recording upon any tangible thing, any form of communication or representation, including letters, words, pictures, sounds, or symbols, or combinations thereof, and any record thereby created, regardless of the manner in which the record has been stored.
(c) “Communicating, communication” includes speaking, writing or submitting any information to the Board or the Board’s staff.
(d) A fact is “material” if it is necessary to make the communication, in light of the circumstances under which it was made, not misleading.
(e) Each communication forbidden by this section constitutes a separate violation of this section.
(f) This section and any penalty resulting from its violation are in addition to all other laws of this state.
(g) This section shall not be the basis for any private right of action.(g) This section shall equally apply to Board or Board’s staff communications to the Public.
Jeez, as a native son of the Golden West, I can only say “WTF?!”
Thankfully, I don’t live there anymore but I do (unfortunately) still own property in the Golden State.
Congress needs to force California to face its own financial problems. No BAILOUTS! No loan guarantees. The Golden State is just going to have to face its own problems and deal with its unfundable public-sector retirement benefit programs. California needs (desperately) private sector jobs that generate tax revenue, not more blood-sucking gummint jobs that don’t.
If California can’t do these things, then it needs to FAIL, as a message to the other states. Nothing is “too big to fail”, because the alternative is a Federal gummint that controls everything.
BAD, bad news for the nation.
Can’t this be turned around – against these fascists ?
Since it is the AGW’ers who are knowingly lying and deceiving, cant we take them to court using these laws ?
I know it wont fly now – but give this another year or two, for scepticism to grow, and it will be they who will be looking at jail sentances.
This just looks like business as usual for the state of California. Didn’t Bill Lockyer sue the automotive industury for possible damages from global warming because they opposed the state’s mileage standards? (It was summarily thrown out in court.) And if you read Coyote Blog, he pays 5x more for unemployment insurance because his seasonal employees claim unemployment (and get it) when the season ends. If he ever had employee issues that had gone to the CA state labor people, he was told that if he lost case, he could be charged with perjury.
I read the “Text of Proposed Regulation”.
I do not see a clause that would allow it to apply retoactivly so the CAGW people are in the clear, as are all of the things CARB itself has done in the past.
I expect that in future they will point to the information received in the past and say that the information must be true since it would have been against the law to accept lies.
If you can get to the meeting be sure to bring the entire FOIA download on a CD and anything else you can think of and pass it to the chair of the meeting and get the receipt of the information by the chair entered into the minutes of the meeting.
Good luck.
PS. Of possible being a lawyer versed in the procedural protocols in place for this type of meeting.
Who do they think they are, the TSA?!
I think it is time to do away with civil service and go back to the spoils system. At least we’ll have some accountability.
Ed Caryl says: “It should be pointed out to these dolts that California has lost a million jobs while Texas has gained a million.”
/sarcon
Oh, but Ed, defeating Prop 23 saved 500,000 future green jobs. Really it did. The ads said it would. Prop 23 said California would lose 1,000,000 existing jobs, but Prop 23 was financed by….Oooh! Texas oil barons! So do the math, Ed. Five hundred thousand is bigger than a million…isn’t it?
/sarcoff
This seems aimed at intimidation. CARB and their supporters clearly don’t like challenges to the bogus science that underpins their agenda, whether it is global warming, particulates, or whatever. They may well believe that just by having the threat of prosecution hang over such challenges, the skeptics will hesitate. Also it may not be a coincidence that this follows so soon after the election; they may be emboldened now to move to cut down the opposition. Scientists who have results in opposition to CARB may think twice about calling those results to CARB’s attention. If so, it is very likely to be counterproductive to CARB, since it will force scientific debate into arenas it cannot control.
It simply amazes me how anyone can still live in California. It is like a huge mausoleum: Beautify on the outside, but dirty on the inside. California has some of the prettiest nature beauty in the world and southern California has some of the best weather in the world. But once you look below the surface, it is full of the bloated bureaucracy.
I would love to move to California, but I rather not deal with this. A crooked tree must be cut down; it can’t be fixed. California’s government cannot be fixed, it has to be cut down and start over.
Cliff Huston says:
November 20, 2010 at 6:29 pm
Just one minor change required: …..
_____________________________________________
HMMMmmmm
Perhaps it is time to turn the tables and play the same game “THEY” have always played on the rest of us citizens. Let the regs go through and then add a one liner to a budget bill that changes it to Cliff’s version AND also apply it to ALL of California’s bureaucrats!
All you need is someone very quiet and very sneaky.
The regulation need not be legally enforceable, it need only suppress dissenting opinion, which would be instantly punished during hearings, etc. Opponents of Der KARB would be tied up in court at great expense if they dared to open their mouths.
Today Kalifornia, tomorrow the World!
As an actor, he was referred to as ‘The Terminator.’
As governor, he’s referred to as ‘The Governator.’
In retirement, he’ll be referred to as ‘The Treasonator.’
There’s a reason why actors should never pursue political careers: They’re actors.
Actors tell you what you want to hear, and NOT what’s important, because after all, they’re only acting.
For how many years now has California had an ‘acting governor?’
Lady Justice holds a double edge sword. It cuts both way
Well heck, that’s pretty slick.
Ban the oppostion from participating by officially calling them liars.
Why stop with AGW related policies. ahnold?
There’s land use, transportation, education, taxation and many other areas where oppostion could be prohibited.
And you could make the same agruments about how important it is to do so.
Heart before mind; it’s at work here.
CARB folks, your belief is incontrovertible, your motives are beyond reproach.
Is it just, perhaps, maybe even slightly possible that you’re confusing the “what may happen” with the “what will happen” and are taking the path of least resistance by conforming to the consensus that, ignoring the uncertainties, has more than one litter in the fight?
Just a thought: no more than a question. Is that a problem?
If, by asking, I’m the problem then yes; Houston, we do have a problem.