Trial of Mann v. Steyn: Post-Trial Motions Edition

From THE MANHATTAN CONTRARIAN

Francis Menton

Way back in the ancient year of 2012 — before this blog had even been started — Penn State climate “scientist” Michael Mann brought a lawsuit for defamation against Mark Steyn and Rand Simberg, as well as against two websites (National Review and CEI) that had hosted the blog posts of those two individuals. Mann asserted that his reputation had been damaged by the Steyn and Simberg posts, which had compared Mann to fellow Penn Stater Jerry Sandusky. The point of comparison was that Penn State had investigated and cleared both men around the same time over allegations of misconduct — scientific misconduct in the case of Mann, sexual misconduct in the case of Sandusky.

In the succeeding years, the case went through a truly unbelievable history of procedural twists and turns, including multiple motions to dismiss and appeals. There was even an effort in 2019 to seek Supreme Court review, which the Court denied at that time; but Justice Alito issued a detailed dissent as to why he thought review should have been granted. The case finally reached trial in January 2024, by which time the two corporate entities, National Review and CEI, had been dismissed from the case, leaving only the individuals Steyn and Simberg as defendants. The trial was available for public view over the internet, and I watched substantial parts of it, leading to five blog posts over the period January 27 to February 8, 2024. Links to those five posts are here, here, here, here and here. A February 9 update to the last of those posts reported on the jury verdict that was delivered on the 8th. Readers who are at all familiar with the case will recall that the jury awarded only $1 of compensatory damages against each defendant, but awarded punitive damages of $1000 against Simberg and $1 million against Steyn.

In the immediate aftermath of the verdict, the liberal press was filled with gloating that the jury had ruled in favor of their climate hero Mann. For example, my February 8, 2024 post linked to one such piece at NPR (Excerpt: “Michael Mann, among the world’s most renowned climate scientists, won a defamation case in D.C. Superior Court against two conservative writers.”)

And then the case disappeared almost completely from the news for over a year. What, you may have wondered, was happening? The answer is “post-trial motions.” In between the jury verdict and the entry of what is called the “final judgment,” which is the document that resolves and ends the case, the parties get to make various requests to the judge, either to decide issues that were not before the jury, or to modify or even vacate the jury’s verdict as being contrary to law in some respect. Sometimes, those motions are few and routine, and other times they are numerous and complex.

In just the past few days, the trial judge (Alfred Irving of the D.C. Superior Court) has at last decided most of the motions (although there is at least one substantial issue remaining to be decided, as I will discuss below.). You might ask, is 13+ months normal to decide such post-trial motions? The answer is that such a long time period is quite unusual, but not unheard of; indeed, I have seen some go even longer. Here, I thought it should not have taken nearly so long. However, in Judge Irving’s partial defense, he did put together two very thorough and detailed decisions deciding the motions, one 44 pages long, and the other 46 pages.

With Judge Irving’s decisions in hand, it is now clear that February 8, 2024, the day of the jury verdict, was the high point for Mann’s cause. Since then, the process has been slow, but all the news for Mann has been bad. The bad news actually began a couple of months ago, on January 10, 2025 when Judge Irving decided a long-pending motion of National Review to be awarded attorneys’ fees and costs for the claim against it, which had been dismissed prior to trial. The dismissal as to NR took place all the way back in 2021. D.C. law provides for recovery of attorneys’ fees and costs in certain cases for successful defendants in defamation lawsuits. Irving’s decision was that Mann must pay NR $530,820.21.

Next up, on March 4 Judge Irving issued his 44-page ruling with the all-caps title “OMNIBUS ORDER ON DEFENDANTS’ POST-TRIAL MOTIONS FOR JUDGMENT AS A MATTER OF LAW, REMITTITUR, NEW TRIAL, AND STAY OF EXECUTION OF THE JUDGMENT.” The main result in this Order is that Judge Irving dramatically reduced the punitive damages award as against Steyn by 99.5%, from $1 million to $5000.

As you can see from the title of the Order, there were actually four separate requests in the post-trial motions made by Steyn and Simberg — for “judgment as a matter of law,” for new trial, for stay of execution of judgment, and for “remittitur.” “Remittitur” means that the judge reduces the amount of damages awarded by the jury. That subject is the heart of this Order. If there was to be a major remittitur, then the other requests in the motions would obviously be of much diminished significance.

The motion for remittitur from Steyn was always likely to be granted, although the exact amount of the reduction was not known until Judge Irving ruled. The reason that remittitur was likely is that there is much case law for the propositions that (1) punitive damages cannot be too much out of proportion to actual damages, and (2) punitive damages are entirely discouraged when there are no actual damages at all. Here, the jury had awarded $1 million of punitive damages against Steyn despite finding only a nominal $1 of actual damages.

By far the most important legal precedent in this area is a 1996 case from the U.S. Supreme Court, BMW of North America v. Gore. It is quite unusual for the Supreme Court to stick its nose into civil litigation in state courts under state law; but in the Gore case, the Supreme Court found a basis in the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution to place limits on awards of punitive damages in state court actions. (Note that for these purposes the D.C. Superior Court functions as the equivalent of a state court.). In the Gore case, the Alabama Supreme Court had approved an award of $2 million of punitive damages, although the jury in the case had found only $4,000 of actual damages. In its decision, the U.S. Supreme Court prescribed a variety of factors to determine when punitive damages are excessive under the U.S. Constitution. One of those factors is the “ratio” of the “punitive damages award . . . to the actual harm inflicted on the plaintiff.” The Supreme Court (this is Justice Stevens) stated, “When the ratio is a breathtaking 500 to 1 . . . the award must surely ‘raise a suspicious judicial eyebrow.’” The Court concluded: “{W]e are fully convinced that the grossly excessive award imposed in this case transcends the constitutional limit.” With those bits of guidance, the Supreme Court in Gore did not come up with its own figure for an allowable amount of punitive damages, but rather sent the case back to the Alabama Supreme Court to figure out what to do.

In the case of Steyn, the ratio of punitive to actual damages was not 500:1, but 1 million:1. Thus you can see how the punitive damages award against Steyn was always on thin ice. Judge Irving basically recognized the Gore case as the main precedent that he had to deal with, and went through its various factors in great detail to come up with the $5000 figure as the allowable amount of punitive damages. From Judge Irving’s Order, page 24:

Applying the test the Supreme Court outlined in Gore, . . . this Court finds the jury award of $1 million in punitive damages to be grossly excessive and that a remittitur of the award is appropriate. The Court discusses each of the Gore factors in turn.

And then on March 12, Judge Irving issued his 46-page Order granting a motion for sanctions that had been made by both Steyn and Simberg during the course of the trial. The full text of this Order can be found here.

Judge Irving’s Order contains a lengthy and very detailed description, including dozens of citations and quotes from the trial transcript and exhibits, of the back and forth that led to the motion for sanctions. The facts in question actually took place during the part of the trial that I had watched. You can read Judge Irving’s Order if you wish, but here is my much condensed version from my post of January 31, 2024, which is less than one-tenth as long and cuts to the heart of the matter:

In my prior post, I devoted some space to Mann’s claim for damages, which appears to be based principally on the theory that he had lost various government research grants as a result of the allegedly defamatory blog posts of Steyn and Simberg. Last week Simberg’s lawyer Victoria Weatherford had cross-examined Mann with an interrogatory answer he had given to a question asking him to substantiate his damages by providing a list of all grants he claimed he had lost for this reason. In his answer, signed under oath, Mann had not listed any grants, and instead had objected on the ground that the whole subject was “irrelevant.” My comment was “How Mann can claim damages from lost grants after giving this answer, I have no idea.”

Well, as tends to be the case, the story proved to be much more complicated than it first appeared. On re-direct examination, Mann’s lawyer came back with a supplemental interrogatory answer that Mann had served up in 2020, which did contain a list of allegedly lost grants. That seemed like a pretty good response.

But then Ms. Weatherford got another turn on what’s called “re-cross,” and she pulled out yet another supplemental answer provided by Mann to the same interrogatory. This one was dated in 2023. In 2023 the parties were finally in the run-up to the actual trial. In the 2023 answer, there was a list of allegedly lost grants that was either the same or very similar to the list from the 2020 answer, except that the amounts of money allegedly lost as to each grant had changed in many or even most cases. (It was difficult to determine exactly everything that had changed, because they never put the two lists of grants and amounts up on the screen simultaneously for the viewers at home to compare.). Some of the changed amounts were small, but some were dramatic. In the most notable case, the “lost” grant had at first been claimed to be associated with over $9 million of lost funding; but in the amended answer the number had been changed to only about $100,000. At least as to any numbers that ever appeared on the publicly-shown screen, that $9 million amount looked to be by itself far and away the majority of the claimed lost funding.

In his responses to the questioning on re-cross, Mann justified the final amended answer as just his honest attempt to get things right. At some point he realized, he said, that if that big grant had been won, most of the $9 million would have gone to institutions other than Penn State. OK, but he had signed the previous two answers under oath. Could he really have just been “mistaken” about the $9 million? Certainly the smell of this back-and-forth was that Mann had put a fake inflated $9 million figure into his claim in an effort to intimidate the defendants with a huge number, only to change it on the eve of trial when he realized that defendants probably had the information to prove him lying in front of judge and jury.

If you should read Judge Irving’s Order, what comes through loud and clear is that the conduct of Mann and his lawyers with these damages interrogatory answers had made the judge very, very angry. The aspect of the situation that most angered the judge is that Mann’s lawyers had maneuvered to get the $9 million dollar figure into an exhibit that would go before the jury, when they knew that that figure had been withdrawn as wrong, and had been replaced by a figure a small fraction the size. Then, substantial time and resources of the defendants and the court were needed to correct the record. From Judge Irving’s Order (page 29):

Here, the Court finds, by clear and convincing evidence, that Dr. Mann, through Mr. Fontaine and Mr. Williams [his lawyers], acted in bad faith when they presented erroneous evidence and made false representations to the jury and the Court regarding damages stemming from loss of grant funding. . . . The Court does not reach this decision lightly.

So what is the remedy for this conduct? That is the piece that still remains open. At the end of this Order, Judge Irving says that the remedy will be a monetary award to the defendants of the amounts they were forced to expend to deal with Mann’s misrepresentations and to correct the record. The judge invites them to make a presentation on these matters, after which there will be a round of briefing, and then another decision. It could take additional months. How much will be awarded? My guesstimate would be in the tens of thousands, although perhaps it could even reach as high as $100,000.

So the contours of the “final judgment” in this case are coming into view. Mann will be awarded $1001 against Simberg, and $5001 against Steyn. NR will be awarded $530,000 against Mann, and Simberg and Steyn will be awarded some additional tens of thousands from Mann. Mann will be in a very substantial financial hole, with the defendants having little incentive to compromise with him, and every incentive to go after his bank accounts and his house. Probably, Mann will be able to stave that off for some substantial period of time by means of appeals. Or perhaps Mann’s angel funders, who have paid for this case on his behalf and never had their identities disclosed, will pay off the judgment for him. Publicly, Mann will go forth continuing to claim that he “won” the case by virtue of the jury verdicts.

For me the most disappointing aspect of the whole case has been the total inability of the court system to deal with Mann’s fake science. As described in detail in my post from February 6, 2024, the defendants, particularly Simberg, put on substantial and indeed definitive evidence of the flawed “science” in Mann’s Hockey Stick reconstructions — manipulation of data, incorrect error bands, suppression of adverse verification statistics, and so forth. Mann did not even feel the need to put on any scientific evidence in response. His lawyer completely ignored this entire issue on their rebuttal case, and then did not even mention it in closing argument. And yet, the jury still made an award against the defendants. The whole issue of the fake science went completely over their heads.

The most fitting end to this case will be when whoever in the federal government pays for the University of Pennsylvania “climate science” centers pulls the plug on all the funding. That can’t come soon enough.

4.9 65 votes
Article Rating

Discover more from Watts Up With That?

Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.

90 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Tom Halla
March 16, 2025 10:17 am

From what I have seen, the conduct of this case makes the OJ Simpson or Dan White cases look good.
The courts in general have great difficulty in dealing with “expert” witnesses, operating at best on credentialism. Mann’s Hockey Stick is about as ludicrous as the Twinkie Defense.

paul courtney
Reply to  Tom Halla
March 16, 2025 11:58 am

Mr. Halla: The difficulty for the courts is caused by lawyers and shills, but sometimes a dedicated judge will make the effort to sort it out. Many judges are not so dedicated, and trial lawyers know that jurors are likely to be impressed by the expert IF they get the case that far. The worst part of this case is the refusal of trial judges in this case to see 1) Steyn’s “fraud” statement was opinion (political opinion, even more protected supposedly); and 2) Mann was in fact deceptive (all the way!). Should have been thrown out in the first few months, instead this new trial judge drags the case out some more. I started out to defend judges, but this DC court is an inquisition for the unwary litigant forced into that broken system.

ResourceGuy
March 16, 2025 10:42 am

Better check and see if any billions of Biden IRA money shoveling in the final days went to Mann’s legal team or related foundations.

Reply to  ResourceGuy
March 16, 2025 12:05 pm

That was for so called ‘Green infrastructure’ where local groups would borrow money from a ‘green bank’ to upgrade their fossil fuelled system. It was supposed to leverage Federal money on a 1 basis with their 7 x times own funding.

March 16, 2025 10:49 am

If Mann was a real man he’d have ignored anything written about him that he didn’t like. That would have saved him a lot of trouble. But responding as he did implies to me that he felt there was truth in what was said about him and that hurt his delicate feelings. 🙂

SxyxS
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
March 16, 2025 12:08 pm

I don’t even think that Mann was the driving force.
Some of his handlers encouraged him to do so.

Ruin your opponents with lawfare is a common MO for them
and Mann was told that he does not need to care about the costs and that thecourt is on their side.
And at first Mann was winning.

But many things changed since January and the Mannfia is in trouble.

strativarius
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
March 16, 2025 12:11 pm

The term snowflake makes perfect sense.

Walter Sobchak
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
March 16, 2025 12:52 pm

If he were a real man he would own up to climate science being a pile of horse excrement.

Rud Istvan
March 16, 2025 11:08 am

Old saying true here. The wheels (millstone analogy) of Justice grind slowly, but they grind fine.
Mann has been ground fine.

Reply to  Rud Istvan
March 16, 2025 2:36 pm

Excellent.

…. but I hope it doesn’t end here (after the collection) and Lady Justice can just have a quick peek at the hockey stick graph, fraudulent on its face:

Screen-Shot-2025-03-16-at-2.33.05-PM
MarkW
Reply to  Rud Istvan
March 16, 2025 3:46 pm

Hard to celebrate that, when Steyn has also been ground fine.

Rich Davis
Reply to  MarkW
March 16, 2025 5:08 pm

I’m sure that there will be no justice in this life for the beady-eyed rat. But he will surely be the topic of a chapter in some future history of the climate scam and mass delusion of the late twentieth and early twenty-first centuries.

terry
March 16, 2025 11:09 am

I expect that Judge Irving will report Mann’s legal team to their respective law societies for discipline. Misleading the court like this should result in disbarment or at least a very lengthy suspension.

Reply to  terry
March 16, 2025 12:06 pm

Thats for Mann to sue his lawyers for advancing falsehoods in evidence

Reply to  Duker
March 16, 2025 2:38 pm

Eh? Why? He almost certainly encouraged them.

Reply to  philincalifornia
March 17, 2025 10:30 am

And Mann was responsible for supplying his lawyers with evidence to work with.

Mr.
Reply to  Duker
March 16, 2025 5:41 pm

The lawyers can only run with what they’ve been “instructed” to run with.

If Mann sued them, they’d sail him off the balcony like last week’s leftover bird seed.

Reply to  Duker
March 17, 2025 8:33 am

No, he can’t because Mann signed on them.

Reply to  Sunsettommy
March 17, 2025 6:08 pm

Doubt if he even turned up at trial unless he was in witness box.

Lawyers dont involve their client as an equal partner in the court process. The client just says fight this and is asked for their evidence as an affidavit.

Rick C
March 16, 2025 11:19 am

What I find most bizarre about this case is that Mann’s suit was based on his misreading of the Simberg/Steyn articles which compared Penn State’s whitewash investigations of the Sandusky and Mann misconduct allegations and not the actual misconduct. Mann’s suit actually resulted in Steyn’s publishing “A Disgrace to the Profession” which must surely have done far greater harm to Mann’s reputation than the articles he sued for. I guess suing all the high profile real scientists quoted in Steyn’s book was a bridge too far.

Of course Mann will never pay any judgement against him (although maybe Soros or someone will).

Reply to  Rick C
March 16, 2025 2:44 pm

They will have to domesticate the Judgment to PA, or wherever he lives, but then it’s out of his control. They can garnish bank accounts, salary, royalties, repossess his car(s) and other property etc etc. It won’t be fun if his previous financiers head for the hills.

Reply to  philincalifornia
March 17, 2025 6:19 am

I’m thinking that if anyone “gifts” Mann the money to pay the award, it will have to become public AND declared as income. I’ll be happy to see what the outcome of someone helping actually is.

Reply to  Jim Gorman
March 17, 2025 10:32 am

Yes, the IRS should keep a close eye on this case.

D. J. Hawkins
Reply to  Jim Gorman
March 17, 2025 10:34 am

It certainly won’t have to be made public, but it will have to be reported as income.

Reply to  Rick C
March 17, 2025 3:57 am

“I guess suing all the high profile real scientists quoted in Steyn’s book was a bridge too far.”

For thoe who don’t know, Steyn talked to a lot of scientists involved in climate research and they didn’t have one good thing to say about Mann. They said Mann was “A Disgrace to his Profession”.

But Mann didn’t sue any scientists. If he had done so, then Mann’s “science” would have been front and center, and his science lies couldn’t stand that sunlight.

ResourceGuy
March 16, 2025 11:22 am

Why are my reparations payments from the Mann hockey stick science fraud?

Reply to  ResourceGuy
March 17, 2025 4:09 am

Where is Society’s repayment for the TRILLIONS of dollars wasted trying to reduce CO2 output based on Mann’s (and Phil Jones’) fraudulent Hockey Stick temperature trend line?

The Truth is it is no warmer today than it was in the past, even though there is more CO2 in the air today than in the past. CO2 has had no measurable effect on atmospheric temperatures based on written, historical temperature records. There is no need to reduce CO2 output, or to waste TRILLIONS of dollars according to reliable temperature charts.

Mann and Phil Jones’ Hockey Stick “hotter and hotter and hotter” temperature profile is the BIG LIE of climate science. It was created to make CO2 out to be the Bad Guy. But it’s all a BIG, EXPENSIVE LIE. The biggest, most harmful scientific fraud in world history.

Reply to  Tom Abbott
March 17, 2025 6:45 am

And yet there are people who show up in WUWT, still pushing the hockey stick fraud as if it represents reality.

Reply to  karlomonte
March 18, 2025 2:36 am

The Hockey Stick is all the Climate Alarmists have. If they didn’t have that, we would never hear from them.

All the Climate Alarmists have is a BIG LIE to push on the Public.

Reply to  ResourceGuy
March 17, 2025 10:41 am

I guess if you could make an iron-clad case that Mann’s behavior resulted in fraudulent expenditure of tax dollars, you might be able to participate in a class-action suit of 92,000,000 tax payers. Assuming that the suit were successful, it would probably cost much more to prepare and mail the checks than the award would be.

Reply to  Clyde Spencer
March 19, 2025 7:29 am

Each taxpayer gets 42 cents to make them whole. Perfect!

; >)

Coeur de Lion
March 16, 2025 11:24 am

Having closely read the trial transcripts, I feel that one dimension is missing here. That Michael Mann is an extremely unpleasant person.

Mr.
Reply to  Coeur de Lion
March 16, 2025 1:00 pm

an extremely unpleasant person

My, you used a lot of characters to write – “asshole”.

Reply to  Mr.
March 17, 2025 3:23 am

I thought an asshole was a quite useful object.

bobclose
Reply to  Mr.
March 17, 2025 5:49 am

Nasty lying asshole more fits the bill.

Jerry Mead
Reply to  Coeur de Lion
March 16, 2025 2:07 pm

Ross McKitrick writes about his and Steve McIntyre’s involvement with Mann and his Hokey Stick here:

Paleoclimate/Hockey Stick – Ross McKitrick

Early back then in 2009 I very quickly formed the opinion that Mann is indeed ‘an extremely unpleasant person’.

And a liar. And greasy. And – worst of all – dangerous, for all the credibility his fraudulent output and public persona as an ’eminent climate scientist’ has given to the global justification for spending trillions of dollars to ‘fix’ this whole flaky boondoggle.

I make no secret of the fact that this person and his activities still make me very angry.

paul courtney
Reply to  Coeur de Lion
March 17, 2025 3:51 am

Mr. Lion: Unpleasant people who are honest are OK with me, but that ain’t Mann.

Reply to  Coeur de Lion
March 17, 2025 10:44 am

That might be an appropriate characterization of a lot progressive activists and might explain a lot of their behavior. These are not happy people.

Bob
March 16, 2025 11:48 am

What a stinking mess!

strativarius
March 16, 2025 12:10 pm

Has the MWP sued Mann? He did try to get rid of it.

Milo
March 16, 2025 12:13 pm

PSU is not the University of Pennsylvania.

Reply to  Milo
March 16, 2025 12:28 pm

Correct. Mann was at PSU at the beginning of this mess but is now at the U of Penn which is in Philadelphia. Penn is Ivy League and considerably more expensive than the state school. Us Penn Staters like to needle our Ivy League cousins of similar name by saying Penn is that school near Drexel, implying Drexel is the more noteworthy school. Drexel, is however a fine school in its own right. The Jerry Sandusky reference which started this lawsuit is regarding a pedophile assistant coach from Penn State which horribly smeared my school’s reputation. Steyn was saying that Mann was as much a stain on Penn State’s reputation as Sandusky. I’m glad both these men are gone from Happy Valley.

March 16, 2025 12:16 pm

At least Mann is no longer at my Alma Mater, Penn State, but rather at an institution with a similar name near Drexel University.

davidinredmond
Reply to  2BAFlyer
March 16, 2025 2:45 pm

At UPenn, Mann apparently has a secondary appointment to the Annenberg School for Propaganda, er, Communication.

Rich Davis
Reply to  2BAFlyer
March 16, 2025 5:16 pm

But alas not the state pen as we had all hoped.

Reply to  Rich Davis
March 17, 2025 10:47 am

Don’t give up hope! It could still come to pass.

March 16, 2025 12:16 pm

the jury still made an award against the defendants. The whole issue of the fake science went completely over their heads.

This is the most troubling aspect of the whole charade (although the dark money funding Mann’s legal expenses runs a close second).

I took a single stats course in college. Even without that the the “fake” in Mann’s “fake science” was entirely obvious. This was the single issue the entire case should have rested upon. Did Mann fake the science and did Penn State cover it up? If yes, then the analogy is apt. Worse, by not touching on that issue, Penn State themselves get off the hook for covering up fake science.

Even worse than that, the public at large never got to see a court decision calling out the manufacturer of the hockey stick delusion for faking the results. That the average person cannot detect obviously fake science presented in a court room is a tragedy. The the public at large never got the headline that would have followed if they had focused on this issue is the greatest tragedy of all. Climate Alarmism continues its steady pace unabated.

tilak doshi
March 16, 2025 12:45 pm

I wrote on this case in two parts:

https://tilakdoshi.substack.com/p/hockey-stick-shenanigans-and-fraudulent

https://tilakdoshi.substack.com/p/mark-steyns-last-laugh-isnt-over

It was a great pleasure to write these heartening articles, made possible by a brave and honest judge despite being in the DC jurisdiction.

Walter Sobchak
March 16, 2025 12:51 pm

The most fitting end to this case will be when whoever in the federal government pays for the University of Pennsylvania “climate science” centers

I think you mean Penn State. You correctly referred to them in the text above.

For the non-US people:

University of Pennsylvania is a private research university founded by Benjamin Franklin in Philadelphia in 1749, where it is still located. It is a member of the Ivy League athletic conference.

Pennsylvania State University (a/k/a Penn State) is a public research university located in State College PA, which is precisely in the middle of nowhere. There was not a 4 lane highway into the town until a few years ago. It is a member of the Big Ten athletic conference which is so named despite the fact that it now has 18 members.

March 16, 2025 1:34 pm

The whole issue of the fake science went completely over their heads.

In this case a jury of peers ought to have been a jury of scientists.

Reply to  TimTheToolMan
March 16, 2025 2:48 pm

Not really – Mann and scientists are not in the same peer group.

paul courtney
Reply to  TimTheToolMan
March 17, 2025 3:56 am

Mr. ToolMan: For this case, I’d prefer a jury of honest journalists. Don’t think we could find eight of ’em, though.

1saveenergy
March 16, 2025 2:42 pm

Dr. Mann, through Mr. Fontaine and Mr. Williams [his lawyers], acted in bad faith when they presented erroneous evidence and made false representations

That’s Mann’s raison d’être in all things.

Reply to  1saveenergy
March 17, 2025 4:19 am

That’s just a fancy way of saying Mann and his lawyers are Liars, lying to a Court of Law.

1saveenergy
Reply to  Tom Abbott
March 18, 2025 4:28 pm

Indeed !!!

March 16, 2025 11:17 pm

Strange silence from AnalJ and Stokes, the usual shills for Mannian malfeasance.

paul courtney
Reply to  Graemethecat
March 17, 2025 3:57 am

Mr. cat: Noted.

Reply to  Graemethecat
March 17, 2025 4:30 am

Nick and AlanJ should stop using those Mann/Jones bogus, bastardized Hockey Stick charts. They should quit helping Mann/Jones lie to the world about the Earth’s climate.

Mann’s portion of the bogus Hockey Stick chart lie erases the warm periods of the past few thousand years. Periods that were just as warm as today, with less CO2 in the air.

Phil Jones’ portion of the bogus Hockey Stick chart begins around the end of the Little Ice Age (1850) up to the present day. Phil Jones erases the warming periods after the end of the Little Ice Age such as temperature high points in the 1880’s and the 1930’s that were just as warm as today, with less CO2 in the air. Phil Jones’ instrument-era bastardizations make it appear that since the end of the Little Ice Age, the temperatures have been getting “hotter and hotter and hotter” and today is the hottest time in human history. It’s all a computer-generated lie. The written, historic temperature records from all around the world refute/debunk the bogus, bastardized Hockey Stick temperature profile.

A few Climate Alarmist Liars in the wrong place at the right time have caused all these problems. Its time the Liars had some problems.

AlanJ
Reply to  Graemethecat
March 17, 2025 5:50 am

I responded at length in the earlier thread on this same topic, my opinion is the same as then. This article reaffirms my understanding of the events.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  AlanJ
March 17, 2025 8:44 am

Some sort of learning disability on your part, then. Sorry to hear that.

AlanJ
Reply to  Jeff Alberts
March 17, 2025 9:02 am

No learning disability on my part, and I doubt you even know what my position on the issue is, so let’s drop the condescending attitude.

paul courtney
Reply to  AlanJ
March 17, 2025 2:10 pm

Mr. J: Let’s review- Your last position in that string was “no documentary evidence of intent.” (not true). I explained to you, in good faith, that your “position” is not even wrong, documented evidence of intent has nothing to do with this decision, yet you haven’t changed your wrong position, which is now an opinion (still wrong). Many others pointed out other errors of yours throughout the string, but you played whack-a-mole. Condescension is one appropriate response to such tendentious obscurantism. But thanks for not repeating your ignorance in this string.

AlanJ
Reply to  paul courtney
March 17, 2025 4:25 pm

documented evidence of intent has nothing to do with this decision

I never said otherwise, and in fact think I explicitly said the same.

paul courtney
Reply to  AlanJ
March 18, 2025 4:24 am

Mr. J: Still unable to translate your own words? Your stated “position” is that no documented evidence of intent means no evidence of intent. In your view, as stated, the lack of documentary evidence should determine the issue. That is the precise opposite of “nothing to do with”, but that won’t change your opinion because you cannot process the information. Sounds like Mr. Albert is onto something.

AlanJ
Reply to  paul courtney
March 18, 2025 6:14 am

In your view, as stated, the lack of documentary evidence should determine the issue.

That isn’t my position, but thanks for confirming that you are actively ignoring what is being said to you in the interest of being a contrarian.

Reply to  AlanJ
March 18, 2025 1:30 pm

Yes but you want to blame Mann’s lawyers for Mann’s deceit by looking at the downstream impact and not the cause.

AlanJ
Reply to  TimTheToolMan
March 18, 2025 8:58 pm

The cause was Mann’s lawyers screwing up, so I don’t see how the blame could be anywhere else.

Reply to  AlanJ
March 18, 2025 10:44 pm

I don’t see how the blame could be anywhere else.

Yes that much is obvious. It doesn’t occur to you that Mann introducing vastly inflated damages into evidence and testifying against them is the actual cause of the problem which was used by the lawyers later on.

You cant or wont accept that Mann is responsible for his own downfall in this.

AlanJ
Reply to  TimTheToolMan
March 19, 2025 4:52 am

The defense, not Mann, introduced the inflated damages into evidence. Mann’s legal team pulled them out on recross examination and asked Mann questions about the names of the grants (not the inflated dollar amounts).

Your basis for assuming that Mann was intentionally engaged in misleading the jury is based on your own presuppositions.

Reply to  AlanJ
March 19, 2025 5:07 am

Your basis for assuming that Mann was intentionally engaged in misleading the jury is based on your own presuppositions.

And yet here we are with massively inflated damages provided by Mann, testified to be true by Mann and shown to the jury for the deceit it was.

I dont think you do well with understanding the root causes, Alan.

The judge did, though.

paul courtney
Reply to  AlanJ
March 19, 2025 5:18 am

Mr. J: And back on the stationary bike we go. The defense introduced an exhibit to show the witness (Mann) had lied about grants, a legal strategy (I don’t expect you to get it, even if you were open to it). Mann and his lawyers tried to use that to deceive the jury about damages, and they did it on purpose. Court findings are not ToolMan’s “presuppositions” your assumptions are displayed, not his. This is likely the best example of pure projection on your part.

AlanJ
Reply to  paul courtney
March 19, 2025 5:35 am

The defense introduced the exhibit to question Mann’s credibility, they did not allege that he had lied (because that would be an accusation of perjury). Mann and his lawyers responded to the impeachment by addressing the original exhibit, their mistake was in not describing to the jury that the figures in the exhibit had been superseded, and the defense pounced on this.

The judge was ruling solely on whether or not Mann and his legal team had displayed incorrect figures to the jury without informing them, it had nothing whatsoever to do with whether Mann had updated the financial figures during discovery.

paul courtney
Reply to  AlanJ
March 19, 2025 6:09 am

Mr. J: “The defense introduced the exhibit to question Mann’s credibility, they did not….” I couldn’t type any further, just one more shining example of your ignorance, which you cannot resist displaying.
“The judge was ruling….” Again, your earlier comments say the judge was ruling on the intent behind what you insist is an innocent mistake by counsel. You have no evidence to support your opinion, instead you prattle about the judge lacking evidence. Again, I debunk you with your own words, is it time for you to try the “you agree with me” smoke screen? You can’t just let it go, can you?

AlanJ
Reply to  paul courtney
March 19, 2025 6:37 am

Again, your earlier comments say the judge was ruling on the intent

No, he was ruling on the actions, which did not depend on intent. He made a lot of noise about intent that was not in evidence, but that ultimately had nothing to do with his ruling.

Reply to  AlanJ
March 19, 2025 1:10 pm

No, he was ruling on the actions, which did not depend on intent. 

If it was truly an error and the actions were the issue then the judge would have penalised Mann’s legal team. But the judge penalised Mann. How do you explain that?

Jerry Mead
Reply to  TimTheToolMan
March 19, 2025 1:44 pm

It would appear that asking AlanJ for his honest critique of Mann is the climate equivalent of attempting to separate Trump & Putin.

AlanJ
Reply to  TimTheToolMan
March 19, 2025 2:10 pm

The judge did not penalize Mann, the judge sanctioned Mann’s legal team. Attorneys are responsible for how evidence is presented in court, so penalties for misconduct typically fall on them. While the language of the ruling was harsh on Mann, the actual sanctions were directed at his lawyers, not him personally.

Reply to  AlanJ
March 19, 2025 3:16 pm

The judge did not penalize Mann

Mann needs to pay over half a million dollars for legal fees to Steyn.

The court said

Dr. Mann’s assertion that there was no falsehood or misrepresentation in his testimony or his counsel’s conduct borders on frivolity. Cf. In re Pearson, 228 A.3d 417, 424 (D.C. 2020) (“Ultimately, a position ‘is frivolous when it is wholly lacking in substance and not based upon even a faint hope of success on the legal merits.’” (quoting In re Spikes, 881 A.2d 1118, 1125 (D.C. 2005))). As detailed supra, the record plainly shows the deliberate and knowing misconduct of Dr. Mann’s counsel in eliciting false testimony from Dr. Mann and misrepresenting his grant funding.

And

The Court determines that the appropriate sanction is to award each Defendant the approximate expenses they incurred in responding to Dr. Mann’s bad faith trial misconduct, starting with Mr. Fontaine’s redirect examination. The Court arrives at such a sanction because the misconduct of Dr. Mann and his counsel (1) was extraordinary in its scope, extent, and intent; (2) subjected a jury not only to false evidence and grievous misrepresentations about a crucial part of Dr. Mann’s case, but also to additional trial proceedings for correcting the record and the jury’s impressions thereof that otherwise likely would have been unnecessary; (3) further complicated a trial already rife with convoluted and difficult legal and factual issues; and (4) burdened Defendants and the Court with the time-and resource-intensive task of ascertaining the true extent of the misconductand determining appropriate remedial measures for the same, all without any meaningful acknowledgement of the nature of the misconduct by Dr. Mann or his attorneys.

Note that Mann himself was noted both times. And you can point to the lawyers part again but if Mann hadn’t introduced the deceitful damage claims, then the lawyers wouldn’t have been able to deceive with them.

This is how root causes work.

AlanJ
Reply to  TimTheToolMan
March 19, 2025 8:27 pm

Mann needs to pay over half a million dollars for legal fees to Steyn.

Not to Steyn, to National Review. NR extricated themselves from Steyn’s case and were awarded summary judgement. Mann’s case against Steyn and Simberg prevailed.

Note that Mann himself was noted both times. And you can point to the lawyers part again but if Mann hadn’t introduced the deceitful damage claims, then the lawyers wouldn’t have been able to deceive with them.

I will point to the lawyers part again. Nowhere does the court say it is Mann personally being sanctioned. Unless Mann has a private agreement with his legal team on such matters, the penalty will be paid by his legal team.

Reply to  AlanJ
March 19, 2025 8:43 pm

Not to Steyn, to National Review.

Yes, you’re right about that.

Nowhere does the court say it is Mann personally being sanctioned.

The sanction doesn’t name anyone. Its Mann’s case and therefore Mann’s responsibility. He may choose to sue his own lawyers if they wont shoulder some of the financial responsibility.

The Court determines that the appropriate sanction is to award each Defendant the approximate expenses they incurred in responding to Dr. Mann’s bad faith trial misconduct, starting with Mr. Fontaine’s redirect examination.

But Mann’s part is confirmed here.

The Court arrives at such a sanction because the misconduct of Dr. Mann and his counsel

and here

As detailed supra, the record plainly shows the deliberate and knowing misconduct of Dr. Mann’s counsel in eliciting false testimony from Dr. Mann and misrepresenting his grant funding.

Where “False testimony” is the “cant prove it” way of saying perjury. Without it, none of this could have happened so Mann is very definitely the root cause of the issue.

Without it, his lawyers simply couldn’t have pulled the deceptive stunt.

AlanJ
Reply to  TimTheToolMan
March 20, 2025 5:31 am

Yes, Mann’s lawyers elicited false testimony via their misconduct. The sanction doesn’t name anyone because the hearing is to arbitrate an allegation of procedural misconduct by the attorneys. By your logic, it is impossible for a lawyer to commit misconduct in the courtroom because they wouldn’t even be there if not for their client.

Reply to  AlanJ
March 20, 2025 5:59 am

Yes, Mann’s lawyers elicited false testimony via their misconduct.

It was Mann’s misconduct. It even says so. Lawyers can commit misconduct and they were also mentioned as having done so in this case.

The Court arrives at such a sanction because the misconduct of Dr. Mann and his counsel

But the point is, and you keep missing it, is that it all stems from Mann’s misconduct arising from his deceitful claim on the damages.

AlanJ
Reply to  TimTheToolMan
March 20, 2025 6:36 am

Again, the ruling criticizes Mann’s legal team for misconduct, but it does not state that Mann himself engaged in it. Lawyers, no their clients, are responsible for ensuring the accuracy of evidence presented to the jury. Sanctions were imposed on Mann’s attorneys, not on Mann personally. While the judge’s language was harsh (excessively so, in my view), there is no explicit finding that Mann acted in bad faith.

But the point is, and you keep missing it, is that it all stems from Mann’s misconduct arising from his deceitful claim on the damages.

No, because the incorrect grant values were corrected in discovery. Both the defense and Mann’s legal team had access to these corrections. The defense chose to introduce Exhibit 517A containing the outdated numbers, and Mann’s legal team unwisely relied on the same exhibit without immediately clarifying the error.

If using outdated evidence constitutes misconduct, then the defense is equally culpable for putting it before the jury first. The judge, however, only penalized Mann’s side, which shows that this is a question of litigation strategy and not proof of deliberate deception by Mann himself.

Expecting a client to grasp the nuances of attorney conduct in real-time is unreasonable. If your own attorneys put an exhibit in front of you and began questioning you about it, especially one the opposing side had just used against you, you would naturally assume you should answer their questions. That is the normal function of cross-examination, not evidence of bad faith.

It is hypothetically possible that Mann is a legal expert who understood that his attorneys had an obligation to explicitly inform the jury that the numbers had been superseded. But there is no documentary evidence proving he had that awareness or that he knowingly allowed false information to stand. The judge assumes intent without proof, which is an argument from incredulity (“how could someone not know this?”), while you assume intent based on a presumption of Mann’s character (“I just know he would do this”). I don’t find either of these reactions justified.

Reply to  AlanJ
March 20, 2025 6:48 am

Again, the ruling criticizes Mann’s legal team for misconduct, but it does not state that Mann himself engaged in it.

It’s right there!

The Court arrives at such a sanction because the misconduct of Dr. Mann and his counsel

Then you say

No, because the incorrect grant values were corrected in discovery. 

We’ve already been over this with quotes and you’re just wrong. The judge saw through the deceit with Mann introducing and testifying to the $9.7M damages. At this point engaging with you on this is utterly pointless.

AlanJ
Reply to  TimTheToolMan
March 20, 2025 7:01 am

It’s a sanction on the counsel, not on Mann. The misconduct is being applied to the plaintiff’s side as a whole, but that does not mean the client personally committed an ethical violation. As you quoted earlier, the judge specifies that Mann’s attorneys elicited false testimony from him. If Mann had been personally accused of misconduct, the judge would have sanctioned him individually or referred perjury charges.

As for the $9.7M figure, Mann did not invent that number out of thin air, it came from his original discovery response, which was later corrected. The defense had access to both the old and corrected figures but chose to use the outdated ones to impeach him. If the issue were merely presenting the outdated figures, the defense would have been sanctioned as well. The issue was squarely the failure to clarify the figures to jury by the plaintiff’s side.

At this point engaging with you on this is utterly pointless.

Probably it is, because further engagement will require you to engage in some self reflection and come to grips with your own internal prejudices.

Reply to  AlanJ
March 20, 2025 1:16 pm

It’s a sanction on the counsel, not on Mann. 

You can’t even read. Mann is explicitly named. To me, this says a lot about your ability to accept arguments and my expectation is that no matter what evidence is shown to you, you’ll maintain your beliefs.

paul courtney
Reply to  Jeff Alberts
March 17, 2025 2:12 pm

Mr. Alberts: He’s not disabled, just faking it for sympathy.

2hotel9
March 17, 2025 5:09 am

Dig into the USAID money laundering scam, bet they were getting nearly as much there as China gives them every fiscal quarter.

March 17, 2025 10:26 am

Judge Irving basically recognized the Gore case as the main precedent that he had to deal with, and went through its various factors in great detail to come up with the $5000 figure as the allowable amount of punitive damages.

It is still a ratio of 5,000-to-1, ten times the Gore case.

In a grant award, there is money for the university overhead, travel, equipment, research assistants salaries, and miscellaneous expenses. The grant application or award should have detailed how much money was salary for Mann. That is all that he, personally, may have lost and that is all that he should have claimed, and was readily available at the first trial. The defense should have presented that to the jury. For Mann to ask for compensation to money that he personally would never have received is fraud.

March 17, 2025 3:18 pm

1$ for actual damages. Is that meant to reflect the maximum value of Micky Mannish’s academic reputation prior to the reveal of his scientific misconduct in publication?