Who Should We Punish for the Fake Science Poisoning our Children’s Futures?

From Legal Insurrection

The celebrities and media who lend any support or comfort to those who manipulate the young to commit crimes based on flawed science are worse than those who encouraged flagellation to cure the Black Death in medieval times.

Posted by Leslie Eastman 

Today, I am going to add a mother’s perspective on “climate crisis” pseudoscience” to address an issue I think is essential: Who, exactly, do we punish for fake science upon which poor policy choices are made?

But beyond that, how can we crack down on science fraud poisoning our children’s futures?

Last October, we reported two women in their early 20s were arrested in London for throwing soup over Vincent Van Gogh’s “Sunflowers” painting during a protest against fossil fuels.

They both are now looking at over two years of jail time.

Phoebe Plummer, 23, and Anna Holland, 22, from the protest group Just Stop Oil were imprisoned for two years, and 20 months, respectively, according to PA Media.

These are the latest in a string of prison sentences handed to climate activists in the UK for engaging in disruptive protests against the use of fossil fuels. Two relatively new, controversial laws have boosted the powers of police and courts to crack down on protests that are disruptive, even when they are peaceful.

The sentences appeared to do little to deter Just Stop Oil: Hours after they were handed down, three more Just Stop Oil activists threw soup over two other Van Gogh paintings of sunflowers in the Poets and Lovers exhibition at the National Gallery, the same venue the 2022 protests was staged, according to the group.

Those years those girls are going to lose are essential. They are the years to complete an education or gain important work experience for a career. That is the time to make life-long connections and perhaps meet a future spouse. It is also the age at which many women are starting their families.

Because of climate hysteria driven by agenda-driven pseudoscience and pushed by a media that silences critics and ignores counter-evidence, progressive educators are enabled to push this dogma. Cult-like-leaders arise to encourage young people to ruin their futures to protect an Earth that is not in jeopardy from its carbon dioxide levels.

In his recent Substack, Glenn Reynolds asks a question I think should be pondered and answered: Should we criminalize scientific fraud?

As Reynolds notes, the issue is complex. Determining what real science fraud is versus typos and misinterpreting data can be difficult. However, as it relates to climatology, massaging data to produce temperature spikes and ignoring urban heat island effects to support the green energy agenda should have consequences. And, as we have seen with COVID-19, poor science used to promote disastrous rules and regulations isn’t confined to climate.

Reynolds reviewed a wide array of potential options to prevent science fraud. Based on his analysis, perhaps the best place to focus is “revising incentive structures.”

I like requiring researchers to specify ways of ensuring reproducibility in their applications, and evaluating researchers based on long-term reproducibility.

…Requiring data-sharing – and data “archiving,” as it’s surprising how often data for crucial studies turns out of have been lost in a move or a flood when requested later – would also help.

And – and this was suggested by a commenter to an earlier blog post – not relying on scientific research for public policy purposes until it has been successfully replicated by someone else is not a bad idea. That would slow down the connection between research and public policy, but would that really be such a bad thing?

This might be the best direction to head.  Currently, it seems science that gets social media clicks, softball interview questions, academic rewards, and generous funding is the science that can occur.  Research isn’t done for knowledge’s sake but for personal gain.

If punishing fake science is difficult, and completely removing incentives for fake science to be published is not practical. Preventing it from taking root by showing the data can be replicated before new rules are created would be the logical path forward.

Another option would be a return to the Renaissance approach to science, with those passionate about real research funding institutions specifically devoted to such study, as we clearly can no longer trust our elite universities and colleges to do so. For example, like the one SpaceX CEO Elon Musk has planned.

The charity, called The Foundation, plans to use a $100 million gift from Musk to create and launch a primary and secondary school in Austin focused on teaching science, technology, engineering and math. Once it is fully operational, the filing states, the school will focus on creating a university. The school intends to seek accreditation by the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools Commission on Colleges, a necessary first step to launch the school.

Finally, making pseudoscience cult leaders who brainwash young adults into committing crimes pariahs rather than making them celebrities would be helpful. Of course, the elite media (in this case, the BBC) attempts to make these villains into martyrs.

I give you its last report on Roger Hallam, founder of Job Stop Oil and Extinction Rebellion.

When five activists who brought chaos to the M25 motorway were jailed last week, some thought the law had finally caught up with Just Stop Oil.

Celebrities spoke out in anger at the lengthy sentences – and a United Nations official described their treatment as “not acceptable in a democracy”.

With Roger Hallam, the architect of the modern environmental protest movement, and his co-conspirators now behind bars, this might have been “checkmate” in a five-year long game of legal chess between the state and a group of increasingly bold direct action environmental groups.

But at least for some Just Stop Oil activists, it doesn’t appear to have worked.

The celebrities and media who lend any support or comfort to those who manipulate the young to commit crimes based on flawed science are worse than those who encouraged flagellation to cure the Black Death in medieval times. At least the men and women in the Dark Ages hadn’t already learned germ theory and did not know how to apply the scientific method.

I must admit that I don’t have much compassion for eco-activists who commit crimes and disrupt other people’s lives.  But, as a mother, I hate seeing young lives sacrificed on the altar of pseudoscience, and I would like to save others from similar fates.

After all, “it’s for the children” is supposed to be a reason respected by progressives.

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KevinM
October 3, 2024 10:28 am

“We”?

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  KevinM
October 3, 2024 11:45 am

Reminds me of an old comedy skit…
“What’s this we shit Kemosabe?”

Reply to  Sparta Nova 4
October 3, 2024 1:21 pm

brings back memories!

dk_
Reply to  Sparta Nova 4
October 3, 2024 1:29 pm

George Carlin or was it Cheech and Chong?

David Wojick
Reply to  dk_
October 3, 2024 3:45 pm

Lone Ranger and Tonto. As indians attack Ranger says we are in trouble. The quote is Tonto’s reply.

dk_
Reply to  David Wojick
October 4, 2024 12:13 am

Yeah, but who did the comedy routine? It was a thing. That reply never happened on any radio show or movie.

Reply to  dk_
October 4, 2024 12:24 am

I think I heard it by word of mouth. Back in the day, not everything was on TV. Also, the Lone Ranger was a very popular show. I remember one of my grade school teachers played the finale of the William Tell Overture, and we all knew it was the Lone Ranger theme.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  dk_
October 4, 2024 9:00 am

Some Google results suggest it first appeared in the 1950s in a precursor to Mad Magazine.

daveandrews723
October 3, 2024 10:28 am

I agree wholeheartedly about the despicable people spreading the lies about climate change and how they are warping the minds of young people. But I have absolutely no sympathy for those two women. They are old enough to know better and should be held accountable for their terrible actions.

Curious George
Reply to  daveandrews723
October 3, 2024 11:12 am

I wonder how much more wisdom they’ll learn in 2 years in jail compared to Harvard.

TBeholder
Reply to  Curious George
October 3, 2024 1:06 pm

I will be amazed if they will really get all 2 years in jail, without amnesty, cutting it to slap on the wrist on appeal, or something.
These clowns misbehave exactly because this does not appear possible.

Reply to  TBeholder
October 3, 2024 1:22 pm

couple of months

Reply to  daveandrews723
October 3, 2024 11:37 am

I am a free speech absolutist. People are free to lie and spread propaganda. It’s up to the individual to do due diligence and sort out the truth. So I agree, no sympathy for these idiots at all. And as far as the idiots gluing themselves to roads and runways, I would just set a traffic cone around them and leave them there.

Reply to  Fraizer
October 3, 2024 1:24 pm

But, when it institutionalized lies and propaganda, it’s not about free speech.

Leaving them in the road with traffic cones sounds great- if it doesn’t stop traffic. And, everyone driving by should be sure to blast their horn as they go by. Or, they can yell out when going by- “long live fossil fuels!”

Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
October 3, 2024 3:46 pm

It’s always been institutional propaganda. The only difference now is that there are more easily accessible alternate information outlets. In response the legacy media has just become more blatant. The good old days of the big three networks and the NY times telling the truth never existed.

barryjo
Reply to  Fraizer
October 4, 2024 9:37 am

Interesting. More blatant, but more censorship. HMMMM.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  daveandrews723
October 3, 2024 11:39 am

They are old enough to make rational decisions and definitely old enough to “own” the consequences of their actions.

October 3, 2024 10:31 am

Just a random observation. Funny how of all the brands of soup they could have used to splatter the paintings, they picked Heinz soup. John Francois Kerry is married to Theresa Heinz (Kerry) and heiress to the Heinz fortune.

Reply to  Phil R
October 3, 2024 10:34 am

Quick follow-up, shouldn’t the Heinz-Kerry’s be calling out this behavior or do they support it. Maybe it’s time to boycott Heinz.

Reply to  Phil R
October 3, 2024 10:38 am

Jooooooohn Keeerry probably donated it then…

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  PariahDog
October 3, 2024 6:20 pm

Shapiro fan, eh?

Reply to  Phil R
October 3, 2024 10:43 am

Don’t care about the downvote, most people get some sooner or later, but what, did I upset the poor sensibilities of a John Francois Kerry fanboi?

Reply to  Phil R
October 3, 2024 1:27 pm

You’ve got 10 thumbs up as of 4:30 EST. Often, the climate whack jobs show up first- feverishly wanting to see what the “climate deniers” are up to- so early thumbs down are not uncommon. The reality kicks in. 🙂

Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
October 3, 2024 2:27 pm

Thanks, one of the few threads where my comment was near the top.

Reply to  Phil R
October 3, 2024 1:25 pm

bingo!

DarrinB
Reply to  Phil R
October 4, 2024 7:20 pm

Heinz sold out some years ago to Berkshire Hathaway (Warren Buffett). Don’t recall the exact year but I followed the news at the time because A) It was possibly politically motivated B) Heinz had bought a couple pieces of equipment from my company I was out at their site multiple times servicing it.

October 3, 2024 10:37 am

If punishing fake science is difficult, and completely removing incentives for fake science to be published is not practical. Preventing it from taking root by showing the data can be replicated before new rules are created would be the logical path forward.

How about, if at least two other replication studies are not completed successfully, your paper can’t be cited. That would certainly slow down the amount of dross coming out, and would ensure that reproducibility of the paper is given a higher priority versus headline grabbing abstracts.

Joe Crawford
Reply to  PariahDog
October 3, 2024 11:01 am

Minor question… How do you tie the replication studies back to the original if you can’t cite it?

Reply to  Joe Crawford
October 3, 2024 1:54 pm

Replication studies shouldn’t count toward the number of citations. If paper A has 3 teams each working on replication, it should not be available to cite as a foundation for paper B until at least 2 of the teams give it a passing grade.

Reply to  PariahDog
October 3, 2024 3:17 pm

Scientists don’t spend time replicating past work of others, unless predicted experimental consequence of that work do not appear following subsequent experiments.

If follow-up experiments fail, then a researcher may go back and do the prior work to make sure they have the protocols correct.

If the prior experiments are correctly carried out, and they fail when they should succeed, you publish that result in the journal of the original record.

The original scientist is then in trouble.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  PariahDog
October 3, 2024 11:40 am

Minor question: How do you prevent colllusion?

Reply to  Sparta Nova 4
October 3, 2024 1:49 pm

With great difficulty. However, given the level of competitiveness that seems to exist in science, there’s just as much incentive to find fault in your competitor’s paper as there is to ensure that your own is flawless.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  PariahDog
October 4, 2024 9:02 am

That does not seem to eliminate collusion in politics. The expression pork barrel amendment comes to mind.

Editor
Reply to  PariahDog
October 3, 2024 1:45 pm

I doubt we would have relativity yet. The gatekeepers of the day did their very best to prevent it, and maybe with a tool like this they could have succeeded.

Izaak Walton
Reply to  Mike Jonas
October 3, 2024 1:59 pm

Nonsense. Who tried to stop relativity? It was pretty much accepted the moment Einstein published it. And the theory was already known through the work of Poincare and Lorentz as well as many others.

Reply to  Izaak Walton
October 3, 2024 2:48 pm

How’s it feel to be stupid.

Criticism of the theory of relativity of Albert Einstein was mainly expressed in the early years after its publication in the early twentieth century, on scientific, pseudoscientific, philosophical, or ideological bases.

Reasons for criticism of the theory of relativity have included alternative theories, rejection of the abstract-mathematical method, and alleged errors of the theory. According to some authors, antisemitic objections to Einstein’s Jewish heritage also occasionally played a role in these objections.

A Hundred Authors Against Einstein
A collection of various criticisms can be found in the book Hundert Autoren gegen Einstein (A Hundred Authors Against Einstein), published in 1931.[4] It contains very short texts from 28 authors, and excerpts from the publications of another 19 authors. The rest consists of a list that also includes people who only for some time were opposed to relativity.

Izaak Walton
Reply to  Phil R
October 3, 2024 4:40 pm

There is a difference between criticism and censorship. Mike appears to be claiming that the “gatekeepers” (who are as usual never named but just shadowy figures beloved by conspiracy theorists) wanted to “prevent it”. Which is a statement about censorship not criticism.

And anyway if you want to quote from wikipedia you should at least include all of the relevant material not just the bits that make it look like you are right. So for example:
According to Goenner, the contributions to the book are a mixture of mathematical–physical incompetence, hubris, and the feelings of the critics of being suppressed by contemporary physicists advocating the new theory. The compilation of the authors show, Goenner continues, that this was not a reaction within the physics community—only one physicist (Karl Strehl) and three mathematicians (Jean-Marie Le RouxEmanuel Lasker and Hjalmar Mellin) were present—but a reaction of an inadequately educated academic citizenship”



Izaak Walton
Reply to  Phil R
October 3, 2024 10:33 pm

There is a difference between criticism and attempted censorship which is what Mike is claiming the “gatekeepers” wanted to do. And if you want to bring in antisemitic junk like “A hundred authors against Einstein” then you aren’t doing yourself any favours. It is nothing more than a bunch of wanna-be nazis trying to suck up to Hitler.

Reply to  Izaak Walton
October 4, 2024 7:01 am

A hundred authors trying to suck up to the funders of science and political power…
It’s bad when it’s Hitler.
It’s bad when it’s Stalin (Lysenko, remember?)
But the effect is just as bad when it’s a politician who isn’t inherently evil. Because it’s still anti-science.
For further reading, see the Climategate emails and recognise, the same game is still being played.

MrGrimNasty
October 3, 2024 10:57 am

Story tip.

Another carbon capture project dead.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4glw4dyw8no.amp

“This pipeline project is the linchpin for establishing Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS) technology in southern England. It will be able to transport millions of tonnes per year of captured CO₂, paving the way for carbon reduction developments at Fawley and across the region.”

https://www.solentco2pipeline.co.uk/

J Boles
Reply to  MrGrimNasty
October 3, 2024 12:12 pm

One of the greatest idiot ideas of all time; CCS it is bat schist crazy!

Reply to  MrGrimNasty
October 3, 2024 1:30 pm

from the first link:

“ExxonMobil said the carbon dioxide would be taken to a deep rock formation in the English Channel for safe storage”

Doesn’t seem remotely a good idea. What will ensure the CO2 will stay there? Is it a salt formation?

MrGrimNasty
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
October 3, 2024 2:56 pm

CO2 displacing salty water in porous rock (chalk probably) about 1km deep, they call it a saline aquifer which is presumably capped by the natural geology (clay probably).

MrGrimNasty
Reply to  MrGrimNasty
October 4, 2024 1:49 am

And just to prove they never learn, Labour announce more money down the drain, more doomed CCS.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy4301n3771o

Kieran O'Driscoll
Reply to  MrGrimNasty
October 5, 2024 1:34 am

Much effort is being made to justify carbon capture projects which do not make practical sense. Carbon capture from coal fired electrical generation plants has received much attention since these plants would provide relatively high concentrations of CO2 for compression. However, it has been shown that the additional energy requirement to compress this CO2 in terms of coal for existing coal plants would be between 50% and 80% and for new plants and with improvements to current compression technology could not reduce this additional energy requirement below 25% of current production. In 2009 it was estimated that to capture and store 80% of the U.S.A.’s coal-based CO2 emissions would require and additional 390 to 600 million tons of coal per year or an additional 62 to 92 gigawatts of CO2 free baseload power or a 15% to 20% reduction in the then current power use.[i]
[i] House, K. Z., Harvey, C. F., Aziz, M. J and Schrag. D. P.: “The Energy Penalty of Post-Combustion CO2 Capture & Storage and Its Implications for Retrofitting the U.S. Installed Base.” Energy & Environmental Science, Volume 2, Issue 2, 2009, pages 193-205

Reply to  Kieran O'Driscoll
October 7, 2024 5:58 am

Running the smokestacks from coal fires into underground crevices sounds like another cockamamie scheme that fails to account for: sustainability, NIMBYism, permanent safety, and most other considerations climatistas claim to promote.

“Science” hasn’t proved that CO2 is pivotal to climate, and science hasn’t proved warmer climates are bad. We do know that CO2 is essential to all life, starting with photosynthetic plants at the bottom of the food chain, and we know that higher levels of CO2 support more life. So there’s that, too.

In short, pointing smokestacks down instead of up is fantasy, not reality.

John the Econ
October 3, 2024 10:59 am

“That is the time to make life-long connections and perhaps meet a future spouse. It is also the age at which many women are starting their families.”

It’s my observation that young women are no longer interested in pursuits such has being a family. Which is largely why they have to find meaning in other narcissistic pursuits such as protesting imaginary crisises.

“…United Nations official described their treatment as “not acceptable in a democracy”.

But vandalizing irreplaceable works of art for political vanity is?

Reply to  John the Econ
October 3, 2024 1:15 pm

Those years those girls are going to lose are essential. That is the time to make life-long connections and perhaps meet a future spouse.

Who’s to say they aren’t going to do that in prison?

Reply to  Mumbles McGuirck
October 3, 2024 1:34 pm

And since when is the fact that a prison sentence is inconvenient for the convicted person an argument to let them out or reduce the sentence? Any law supporting that? I didn’t think so.

Ed Zuiderwijk
October 3, 2024 11:02 am

Mickey M, Naomi O, Gavin S, Phil J., Greta T, the list is long. Should be made to account.

October 3, 2024 11:11 am

Remember, Kamala Harris contributed bail money to BLM rioters arrested during riots. She also called for others to do so.

October 3, 2024 11:16 am

Who should we punish for poisoning our air and water?

Reply to  MyUsername
October 3, 2024 11:26 am

That’s such a stupid, irrelevant, irrational, nonsensical comment that it doesn’t even deserve the effort for a downvote.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  Phil R
October 3, 2024 11:43 am

Maybe we should nominate candidates and take a vote.
I nominate MyUsername….

not you
Reply to  MyUsername
October 3, 2024 11:41 am

you

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  MyUsername
October 3, 2024 11:42 am

Is CO2 a poison in the air or water?

If so I better stop drinking beer and you should give up soda pop.

Reply to  Sparta Nova 4
October 3, 2024 1:41 pm

If I eat a big meal, then have a beer, or simultaneously- I notice it makes my overworked stomach feel better. I read somewhere that the CO2 makes your stomach expand, relieving the pressure.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
October 4, 2024 9:05 am

Afterwards is the methane event. 😉

J Boles
Reply to  MyUsername
October 3, 2024 12:13 pm

But you keep breathing the air and drinking the water, hypocrite. Stop using fossil fuels, hypocrite.

Reply to  MyUsername
October 3, 2024 12:44 pm

At the current tiny levels, more CO2 is a necessity, not a poison.

Reply to  bnice2000
October 3, 2024 10:31 pm

The poison is in the dosage.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
October 4, 2024 9:07 am

True. Drink enough water and it will kill you. There are a few documented cases of this.

Raise CO2 concentrations high enough and fatigue, dizziness, etc., occur and if the concentration is high enough (very high) oxygen starvation can occur, in theory.

Reply to  MyUsername
October 3, 2024 1:04 pm

Mother Nature (good luck with the punishment), but at least the US has made great strides in cleaning it up. We remove widespread poisons caused by nature as well as localized poisons caused by Man. Both air and water are cleaner than in centuries.

Reply to  jtom
October 3, 2024 1:43 pm

Right, most people drank filthy water in the past and their air was often filled with wood smoke. It’s only the last century some humans have improved that situation- and still not all humans.

Kieran O'Driscoll
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
October 5, 2024 1:40 am

They drank beer,,, because you could tell if it was bad!!

Reply to  MyUsername
October 3, 2024 1:38 pm

Who? Provide a case that somebody is doing that. It’s happened many times for several decades. Lots of entities are polluters. It can be an individual, a company, a government agency. Be sure the case is based on law, not your feminine instinct. 🙂

Editor
Reply to  MyUsername
October 3, 2024 1:53 pm

The people that stored the CO2 underground are the ones that should be punished, of course. If, that is, these CCS schemes do get implemented. When the CO2 leaks it probably won’t damage the sea, but it certainly could kill people breathing air downhill of the leak.

Izaak Walton
Reply to  Mike Jonas
October 3, 2024 10:36 pm

Does that include fossil fuel companies who deliberately pump CO2 into underground wells to increase fossil fuel recover?

Editor
Reply to  Izaak Walton
October 4, 2024 12:55 am

If they were found to cause mass deaths why should they not be prosecuted?

Reply to  Izaak Walton
October 4, 2024 3:41 am

That is not in containment / storage, dopey.

Reply to  MyUsername
October 3, 2024 3:16 pm

We should be punishing those who are destroying the environment with wind turbines and solar panels.

FAR, FAR more environmental damage than fossil fuels.

Kieran O'Driscoll
Reply to  bnice2000
October 5, 2024 1:50 am

None of the clowns ever take into account the energy required to produce the garbage that needs continuous replacement – Not renewable…. and the environmental impact of the mining operations for metals etc. that have yet to found at increasingly lower concentrations at minimum of 1500 tonnes of materials per wind tower… the transition will produce more pollution than 1000 years for fossil fuel use for transport and energy…. we all know if they allow the peasants to have personal vehicles will require 300% increase in electrical capacity for unreliable’s to run everything an 200% without vehicles… and have not mentioned storage…. imagine a battery big enough to run a city for more than a few seconds having a melt down

Reply to  MyUsername
October 3, 2024 6:44 pm

MyUsername – a puerile name and a puerile question.
I infer from the question that you have no knowledge of the environmental laws and regulations which must be considered and adhered to by any business undertaking in most countries of the world. Whether this is a waste cooking oil recycling plan for a Chip Shop in Aberdeen or dust emissions from a steel plant in Arkansas. Regulations exist, and companies are fined or shut down, for not meeting standards.
In major Greenfield Industrial Developments, a great deal of time and money is spent to ensure a project will meet and exceed environmental regulations. This applies to upstream and down stream suppliers and customers.
Take the knowledge of how this planets erratic “climate” system works (of which we know little to nothing about over millions of years) and the politico-economic machinations of politicians and narcissistic billionaires and remove them from the interlocution, then we are left with nothing more than a dangerous cult. There is no difference between Just Stop Oil and the persecution of witches or sacrificing to Gods when crops fail and the weather turns bad.
The children drawn into this cult will be, in the main, between the ages of 16 – 24, perhaps with low self esteem or prone to emotional and family problems, maybe with parental neglect, seeking some answer to the problems in their lives.
These kids will do the “time”, manipulated by other much more nefarious actors. Prison is no place for them. Deprogramming is what is needed. Rid them of their “Gaianism”, restore their humanity, and see what happens.

Reply to  MyUsername
October 4, 2024 12:43 am

Its a troll. Don’t bother reading or replying, its aim is to pollute the discussion, and its succeeding far too often. Every reply is a win for it. I’m getting close to implementing another filter to ban it, which will also ban all replies to it.

Have to understand, these posters are not looking for discussion, they’re not asserting stuff they really think. That’s not what its about for them. Half of them are trolling, the other half are expressing some personality disorder. Either way replying to them is counter productive.

I think you only need to block about four or five posters to restore these forums to pleasant and worthwhile substantive discussions. So far blocking just two has made reading them much pleasanter, I’m guessing two more will get rid of 95% of the manure.

How to do it: Ublock Origin, insert custom filter:

wattsupwiththat.com##.comment-author-AUTHORNAME

Peace at last!

M14NM
Reply to  MyUsername
October 4, 2024 7:28 pm

You.

Kieran O'Driscoll
Reply to  MyUsername
October 5, 2024 1:52 am

How about you learn to read and buy “The Sceptical Environmentalist” by Lomborg and educate yourself?

October 3, 2024 11:38 am

I doubt these two ever had a good hiding in their lives or homes.
Parents who teach their children responsible behaviour discipline them when necessary.
The nanny state is totally hostile to children being disciplined at home or at school
and then are horrified at their behaviour and think their kind of “education” will resolve the matter.
It never does.

TBeholder
Reply to  Michael in Dublin
October 3, 2024 1:09 pm

In short, they were Big Brother’s children. And then promoted to Big Brother’s concubines.

KevinM
October 3, 2024 11:40 am

Was Vincent Van Gogh an activist? He died in 1890. He liked landscapes. I really don’t know how he’d feel about being part of a protest, especially as the getting-soup-thrown-onto part of it.

Reply to  KevinM
October 3, 2024 12:46 pm

Did he use oil paints ?

Reply to  KevinM
October 3, 2024 1:47 pm

He wouldn’t waste a second on protesting. All he wanted to do was paint. I like his work- once saw a big show of his work at the Museum of Modern Art- back in the early ’80s. When driving back to the Berkshires, along the dark Taconic Parkway- I saw a UFO. In the ’80s, thousands of people in southern NY state saw more or less the same UFO- a boomerang shaped, very large UFO with various colored lights- and no sound. To see the work of a great artist and a UFO on the same day is memorable.

Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
October 3, 2024 3:01 pm

in 1990 I saw a bunch of Van Goghs at the Van Gogh museum in Amsterdam then walked through the red light district. Saw lots of interesting things, but no UFOs.

M14NM
Reply to  Phil R
October 4, 2024 8:42 pm

All the f……g objects were identified?

Reply to  KevinM
October 3, 2024 2:08 pm

https://youtu.be/bzkc1J0k7Gc

No idea if he was an activist, but he was a motivator for a young Gipsy musican, Lucas Romero from Gitano Family for a Van Gogh Album.

Dena
October 3, 2024 11:45 am

Climate gate blew the whole thing wide open but everybody ignored it because there was far to much money and political power in it. I fear this is a truth that will remain hidden for a long time and it will probably take the coming ice age to expose the fraud.

Reply to  Dena
October 3, 2024 1:09 pm

The next Glacial period of our existing Ice Age will be blamed on atmospheric CO2 caused by Man. They have far too much at stake not to do so. There is no such thing as longterm climate cycles and natural variation. There is no money in that.

Reply to  Dena
October 3, 2024 1:49 pm

Well, of course, it’s not hidden- just ignored- so we should all start talking about it every day. It’s been mentioned in many climate skeptic books- but maybe deserves a tome focused on that fraud.

Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
October 3, 2024 10:39 pm

It would help if all the E-Mails were freely available. Last time I checked, they were locked up in a password-protected ZIP file, and the password was jealoulsy guarded.

One can start with Mosher, Steven and Fuller, Thomas W, CLIMATEGATE THE CRUTAPE LETTERS, apparently self-published, 2010. Yes, that Mosher!

Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
October 4, 2024 4:16 am

It’s a good book.

Dena
Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
October 4, 2024 8:34 am

If you haven’t already done so, look under the reference tab for climate gate. I haven’t really done so but you might find what your looking for.

Sparta Nova 4
October 3, 2024 11:51 am

One of the first steps is to correct school curricula, starting with the earliest grades.
The progress through the grades, making sure science is unbiased and balanced and includes facts such as scientific method and scientific notation and not consensus, but experimentation. Modelling should be included but only as tools to gain understanding.

Much more, but most of you are already on board.

Start inspiring hope. Hope that problems can be overcome.
Hope is missing.

Richard Greene
October 3, 2024 12:09 pm

Leftist indoctrination in schools and colleges is much bigger than just climate scaremongering.

The problem is not climate science.

The problem is wild guesses of the climate in 100 years that are NOT science. Especially after the first 50 years of scary predictions were accompanied by very pleasant warmer winters, which are good news.

It is very easy for people in authority to scare others with predictions of doom if they do not “behave”. Many religious leaders have done so for centuries. It’s a control strategy that works.

If not CO2 and Big Oil as the boogeymen, it would be something else, such as Trump, Russians or rural white men.

Don’t blame only the leaders for using fake boogeymen to gain power — blame the people who fall for their malarkey

Potential good news:
Some leftists frightened about climate change will stop having children = fewer leftists in the future.

TBeholder
Reply to  Richard Greene
October 3, 2024 1:17 pm

Some leftists frightened about climate change

Do you know of any?
I mean, those who peddle the whole thing obviously don’t believe it — #GreensGoByAir, etc. Terrorists wannabe obviously don’t believe it either, “10/10 No Pressure” would not make sense (much like O’Brien himself not knowing how many fingers he shows would not make sense).
They had that one brain damaged girl, but then it turned out that even she needs a handler to keep her on topic.

Reply to  TBeholder
October 3, 2024 1:55 pm

If they really, really, really believed it- they’d drastically cut back on their ff use- get back to about 1850 lifestyle- and do it without using whale oil.

Reply to  Richard Greene
October 3, 2024 1:54 pm

“rural white men”

Ayup, we’re all deplorable and proud of it! 🙂

strativarius
October 3, 2024 12:15 pm

Where would you begin and where would you end? Which generations? Do we start with Maurice Strong?

All that can be done is to try to overcome the madness and resume the ideal of human flourishing.

0perator
October 3, 2024 12:52 pm

The people funding it. RICO them.

Admin
October 3, 2024 12:53 pm

We can’t outlaw bad science, because if we do, one day those laws would be used to attack good science, by politicians who call the good science bad.

WUWT has published loads of articles by academics and others who want to punish “climate deniers”. Some of them even want the death penalty.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/12/27/university-of-graz-responds-to-parncutts-calls-for-death-to-deniers/

What we need to do is fix the education system, so more young adults learn critical thinking.

Trump’s suggestions of abolishing the woke Federal Department of Education might help- putting all the eggs in one basket has clearly been a massive failure.

Reply to  Eric Worrall
October 3, 2024 1:56 pm

Better to have lots of diversity in education and see which ones do the best.

Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
October 3, 2024 10:43 pm

But then you are experimenting with the futures of some of the children.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
October 4, 2024 9:17 am

Every day of every year we are experimenting with the future of all children.

How we enable them to face the challenges of an every changing world in an every changing body is no simple task.

TBeholder
October 3, 2024 12:59 pm

Who Should We Punish

So, uh, are you someone who could punish… well, anyone for this or something else?
If yes — were you hibernating until now, or what? If not — the question is moot, isn’t it?

manipulate the young to commit crimes based on

…untidy virtue signalling histrionics?
IDK, it would be their parents, but (then and there) parents don’t really decide much anymore, do they? Maybe seek those who usurped the parents, and… uh… what were you planning to do about it, anyway? Throw some soup at them in turn?

Finally, making pseudoscience cult leaders who brainwash young adults into committing crimes pariahs rather than making them celebrities would be helpful.

And smiting them with a lightning from clear sky would be helpful and stylish. What of it? Do you have power to adjust their social standing or throw lightning? If not, what are you even about? Are you delusional?
Seriously, these musings read like a bad trip report.

October 3, 2024 1:20 pm

“Who Should We Punish for the Fake Science Poisoning our Children’s Futures?”
And it’s not a free speech thing- when fake science with immense political significance is institutionalized.

October 3, 2024 2:04 pm

Would Wegener, Lavoisier and Ohm have fallen foul of this law if it had existed when they made their controversial ideas at the time public.
What sort of psychological damage could be done to young minds at the thought of continents floating about and colliding. Or Oxygen being involved in combustion, or voltage current and resistance were related?

Kieran O'Driscoll
Reply to  Ben Vorlich
October 5, 2024 2:07 am

The difference is none of them were liars and charlatans

Edward Katz
October 3, 2024 2:21 pm

The school systems in most countries are largely responsible for pushing the climate alarmist agenda, actions that should be expected since most are run by leftists without any real knowledge of climate matters or histories. They and the mainstream media make a good combination since they’re usually funded by groups with eco-friendly agendas who believe a large part of their jobs is to brainwash students. Little do they realize that these same youth, as they get older, are hardly likely to give up their petroleum-based creature comforts and conveniences. In other words, they’re like the majority of the population which considers climate matters a low-priority item relative to jobs, the economy, housing, education, healthcare, personal safety, national security, inflation, etc. Climate affairs just come and go, so what else is new?

October 3, 2024 3:02 pm

Who, exactly, do we punish for fake science upon which poor policy choices are made?

Ans: The management of the American Physical Society.
The APS have promoted climate alarm. They are the premier scientific society in the U.S.

If the APS had been as skeptical of climate alarmism as they were of cold fusion, we’d not face the disaster confronting us today.

People would not have died of cold in their beds from Winter fuel poverty. Lives would not have been ruined, landscapes blighted, or trillions of $ diverted to the already rich.

Here’s the 24 September 2024 email exchange I had with APS senior management. Their email addresses are all public, so I have no qualm including them.

Mark Elsesser’s response at the bottom completely communicates the professional and ethical insouciance of APS management.

Mark Elsesser is the director of Public Affairs
Francis Slakey is the Chief External Affairs Officer
Young-Kee Kim is the APS President
+++++++++++++++++
Patrick Frank
APS and climate
To: elsesser@aps.org Cc: slakeyf@georgetown.edu, youngkee@uchicago.edu

Dear Dr. Elsesser,

Concern about societal CO₂ emissions and the climate strictly depend for their veracity on the accuracy and reliability of climate models. There is no other source for the notion that these emissions are impacting global air temperature, and thus the climate.

However, climate models have no predictive value. Please see: “Propagation of Error and the Reliability of Global Air Temperature Projections”
https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/earth-science/articles/10.3389/feart.2019.00223/full

The average annual CMIP5 GCM calibration error in tropospheric thermal energy flux is ±114 times larger than the 0.035 W/m² average annual perturbation from GHG emissions since 1979. CMIP6 GCMs are no better.

That is, climate models are entirely unable to resolve the impact of GHG emissions, if any, on the climate. The uncertainty of a centennial air temperature projection typically amounts to ±14 C.

In short, air temperature projections are physically meaningless.

The ±1.94 C uncertainty in the historical global air temperature record, arising from the neglected systematic air temperature measurement error, obscures both the rate and magnitude of surface air temperature warming since 1900.

Please see: “LiG Metrology, Correlated Error, and the Integrity of the Global Surface Air-Temperature Record” https://www.mdpi.com/1424-8220/23/13/5976

Finally, the atmospheric partial pressure of CO₂ appears to have been driven primarily by SST across the entire 66 million years of the Cenozoic, right up through the present. 

The behavior of CO₂ is consistent with being a molecular spectator of the climate. Driven, not a driver.

Please see: “Cenozoic Carbon Dioxide: The 66 Ma Solution” https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3263/14/9/238

The position of the APS on CO₂ emissions and the climate is unjustifiable on the evidence. 

Many tens of thousands of people have already died from excess Winter fuel poverty. Many thousands, if not millions, of lives and livelihoods have already been assaulted because of economic impositions in the name of curbing emissions.

These abuses should not continue.

Both social and scientific ethics call for an inversion of the present APS position on CO₂ emissions and the climate.

Yours,

Patrick Frank, Ph.D.
+++++++++++++++++
Mark Elsesser’s response.

Mark Elsesser
Re: APS and climate
To: Patrick Frank <pfrankxxx@xxx.xxx> Cc: slakeyf@georgetown.edu, youngkee@uchicago.edu

Hi Young-Kee,

As you might know, we get these type of emails from time to time. Depending on the content of the message — and if the person is an APS member — we sometimes reply.

In this case, I don’t think a reply is necessary. The content doesn’t warrant it and Patrick is not listed in our membership directory.

Thanks.

Mark
++++++++++++++++
A short follow-up, met with silence, included this:

I possess 50 MB of reviews documenting that climate modelers are untrained in physical error analysis.  

The notions of calibration, resolution, error propagation and uncertainty are foreign to them. They do not know to distinguish between precision and accuracy.
+++==++++++++++

The email attached Are Climate Modelers Scientists?

Apparently, the management of the APS are unconcerned that climate modelers lack basic training in science.

Laws of Nature
October 3, 2024 3:18 pm

Actually, their behavior would be wrong and criminal, even if their fears would be correct and justified!

This article mixes different topics
democratic behavior is not climate change is not man-made contribution global warming.

Rud Istvan
October 3, 2024 3:21 pm

I have a fairly unsympathetic reaction.
As a Mom, your first responsibility is to your own children. Not those of others.
There is an intermediate position, making sure your children are not exposed to climate nonsense in schools, as is the case in the UK. That way, you indirectly help the children of other moms. That intermediate case is by and large a failure in the UK for reasons unknown to non-UK non-moms.

Punishment seems fitting. Has inspired other JSO’s to seek the same punishment.

October 3, 2024 5:17 pm

Climate anxiety and climate grief in the youth destroys common sense, trashes or even polarizes the intuition, and makes them vote for the worst possible political candidates.
The healthy reality map which they need, is that the climate system has a wonderful self stabilising design, whereby the multidecadal ocean phases are warmer when the solar wind is weaker, which is at least during each centennial solar minimum:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1364682616300360

And that major heat and cold waves are discretely solar driven and not randomly climate driven, and are predictable centuries ahead:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vQemMt_PNwwBKNOS7GSP7gbWDmcDBJ80UJzkqDIQ75_Sctjn89VoM5MIYHQWHkpn88cMQXkKjXznM-u/pub

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