Last summer in the U.S. there was a warm spell in the central states. This video captures hourly images for 15 days ending August 27, 2023. These are for the CONUS region as visualized from radiance data on Band 16 from the GOES East geostationary satellite. NOAA calls this the “CO2 Longwave IR” band, centered at a wavelength of 13.3 microns at the edge of the “atmospheric window” part of the spectrum. This band is where a significant part of the static radiative warming effect of incremental CO2 is computed. The color scale for visualization is such that the radiance at 30C “brightness temperature” (yellow) is 10 times the radiance at -90C (white.)
I am posting this to emphasize the very rapid rise and decay of the longwave emission to space from the surface + atmosphere in areas of mostly clear skies and strong sunshine. And the images also help show how much the formation and dissipation of clouds matters to the dynamic overall result of longwave emission to space.
So yes, from the concept of the static radiative effect of incremental CO2, it does seem “reasonable” to expect some amount of warming of the land + ocean system. Until you realize how it works by watching from space. Then it becomes clear, just like “the sky is blue”, that the dynamic result is not constrained by the static effect.
I greatly appreciate these “open thread” opportunities.
Very cool stuff, David. I’m thinking you should give more description. Maybe throw in a few Watt/sq.M for the main colors. Stating “The color scale…yellow…is 10 times the radiance…at white”, significantly enlightened your point. Thanks for this.
Thanks, I ran out of time this morning and realized there is no button to directly upload an image. So here are links to two plots that give a better sense of what is being visualized.
This is radiance vs. “brightness temperature” per NASA’s formula and color scale.
From a Modtran exercise, this shows the clear-sky radiance looking down vs wavelength for 280 ppmv CO2 vs 560 ppmv CO2. The relevance of Band 16 is apparent – i.e. the magenta portion is a significant part of the total area under the curve of the difference, which represents the direct “warming” effect of the 2XCO2 case.
Again thanks, your Band 16 description has significantly improved my understanding of why certain GOES bands were selected….by people who obviously thought about sensor capabilities much more than I.
Band 16 does not relate to water vapor per se. It is simply the strength of the radiance, the source of which is some composite of surface black body emission + emission from within the overlying atmosphere. For clear areas, the surface is the ground or ocean; where there are clouds, the surface is the cloud top.
Seems strange to me that Muslims are upset at the current Gaza conflict (inflicted upon Palestinians by their political leadership in HAMAS) during Ramadan – but are seemingly oblivious to the ongoing suffering of the Uighurs.
Maybe it is the case that they see the West’s resolve crumbling over the the 10/07 War Crimes atrocity … but are willing to ignore China’s abuses – because they cannot sway China’s resolve?
Muslims are a diverse people. I have a sense many muslims find the Palestinians tiresome. They murmur support for appearances sake but could happily do without their antics. Also the vast majority of Palestinians are Sunni, so they don’t get a lot of love from the Shia. Iran uses the Palestinians but doesn’t love them.
As for why people don’t bother talking to China, we all know how much we depend on China and we know China doesn’t welcome criticism. That goes for pretty much everything China does that we’d prefer they didn’t.
How many on the [woke] left are aware of the meetingbetween A. Hitler and the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini, on November 28, 1941, at the Reich Chancellory in Berlin?
How many know…
“”The Fuhrer then made the following statement to the Mufti, enjoining him to lock it in the uttermost depths of his heart: 1. He (the Fuhrer) would carry on the battle to the total destruction of the Judeo-Communist empire in Europe. 2. At some moment which was impossible to set exactly today but which in any event was not distant, the German armies would in the course of this struggle reach the southern exit from Caucasia. 3. As soon as this had happened, the Fuhrer would on his own give the Arab world the assurance that its hour of liberation had arrived. Germany’s objective would then be solely the destruction of the Jewish element residing in the Arab sphere under the protection of British power. In that hour the Mufti would be the most authoritative spokesman for the Arab world. It would then be his task to set off the Arab operations, which he had secretly prepared.””
I believe that you are referring to Pope Benedict XVI’s lecture at the University of Regensburg where he quoted an emperor of the Eastern Roman empire (Manuel II) who had said (in 1391):
Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to
These are the words that the pope said in introducing that quote:
…he addresses his interlocutor with a startling brusqueness, a brusqueness that we find unacceptable, on the central question about the relationship between religion and violence in general, saying:
About 2000 years ago, the Romans exiled the troublesome Jews from that area, and renamed it Palestine, in honor of the people who had been living there.
In 1948, many Jews were illegally brought with ships from Europe to Palestine, and they renamed it Israel.
When the displeased Palestinians, Jordanians, Egyptians, etc., attacked, they were defeated by the weapons the UK had conveniently left behind.
The Palestinians lost half of their country, and they have been losing more and more, as Israel has been expelling and expanding, for decades
The latest expansion and attempted expelling and partial elimination is in The Gaza area.
In an effort to win the support of Jewish communities in both Allied countries like the United States, and enemy countries like Austria Hungary, the UK foreign secretary signed the Balfour Declaration. Vowing to set up a national home for the Jewish people in Palestine.
The national home for Jews was set up because no other nation wanted Jews. FDR would not even let Jews come to the US after Hitler came to power, which could have saved a million lives..
The Jews in Israel asked all the Arabs there to stay and half of them did. The other half fled ONLY because surrounding Arab nations told them to leave. Because they were coming in to kill all the Jews, and Israel would not be safe. The half of the Arabs that stayed still live in Israel (Two million — 21% of the population now). After the 1948 war, surrounding Arab nations threw out almost all the Jews who lived there.
How would you like it, if London decided the western half of the US would be given to immigrants from Europe, etc., to establish their own “Homeland” with its own language and religion
I’m neither a Muslim nor a Christian, nor an Arab, Uighur, Persian, Turk, or Pathan, yet I’m upset at the continuing mass murder and toture inflicted on the prisoners of Gaza by the Israeli “Defense” Forces. I might seem to be “oblivious” to the suffering of the Uighurs, although I am not. I can easily distinguish the difference in magnitude of the two crimes, and especially the urgency of the need to arrest the complicity of the US Government in this heinous crime, which exceeds the horror of the Holocaust by far because it is being committed by two democratically elected governments with the apparent support of an informed and free electorate.
I dislike glorifying brutality with meaningless terms like “genocide”, “terrorism”, or “hate crime”, when perfectly appropriate terms like “extermination”, “brutality”, and “bigotry” are available. However, if one must use the term “terrorist”, then I would suggest that the Israeli Defense Forces have more than proven themselves worthy of being labeled as a terrorist organization.
I don’t believe the current Israeli Government, nor most Israelis, are so stupid as to think that they can exterminate the Palestinians. However, they can certainly reduce their population to an unviable remnant. The evidence is that they are well on the way to succeeding in that, and I believe they are smart enough to know that this will force them to adopt a perpetual defensive state against retribution from the survivors, not only in Israel, but also in the diaspora. And presumably that is their goal.
But whatever the goal, murder is murder. And Israel appears to have benefitted greatly over the past decades by the West’s “free” press turning a blind eye to the murder and mutilation it has visited on the residents of Gaza for decades. So I only learned during this “war” that, during the last uprising in Gaza, Israeli army snipers intentionally crippled stone-throwing Palestinian youths by inflicting wounds requiring amputation on their arms and legs.
It turns out that Stalin was right when he laughed at Churchill and Roosevelt’s Nurnberg trials, commenting, “I’d just line them up and shoot them.” Sadly, it’s unlikely the current champion mass murderers and their enablers will ever be tried, or lined up and shot. But maybe some crowd-funded executions are a modern possibility…
Asked about the nuclear option, Selvaraja said: “As far as we can see … all validated and independent data that exists on costs say that it (nuclear) is a very expensive source of energy. And I think in Australia, certainly, we’ve got low cost wind and solar, and we were going to run with that.”
It can shut down permanently if the government kicks in sufficient taxpayers’ $$$$s.
From MyUserName’s link
is in talks with state and federal governments about assistance for the more costly storage and other dispatchable capacity before embarking on the rest of the tenders.
Of course nuclear power costs more up front but a plant will last 50 to 100 years. Windmills and solar panels must be replaced every 15 to 20 years. Batteries too.
Smelting is a process of applying heat and a chemical reducing agent to an ore to extract a desired base metal product. It is a form of extractive metallurgy …
I thought the operating pots run continuously (24 hours a day, 365 days per year). But wind and solar can’t meet that challenge.
I thought smelters used coal. Australia has coal
That seems like the right, reliable energy source to me. I would not invest in that company.
The Tomago smelter was built where it is because of its proximity to the big coal plants in the Hunter valley.
They provide a large continuous load that allows the power stations to operate at a good constant level, and were given very good concessional electricity costs to do so.
The alumina/aluminium industry in Australian mining circles has been efficient and major for decades. There is no plausible reason for government policies to dictate or affect the electricity source, because that is a major factor. Refiners and smelters move around the world to chase reliable, efficient and low cost electricity.
In my decades in the industry, the thought of using wind or solar energy was met with a snigger and rapidly dismissed. Nothing has changed in the basic economic analysis.
I do wonder about the strength of resolve of the modern CEO set in the Australian mining industry. Such people should be insisting to governments that economics are more important than ideology. Even if hydrocarbon fuels are causing global climate change, there is room for important exceptions like the aluminium industry to continue with coal. We build aircraft from aluminium. They are an invention that society would like to keep.
Geoff S
In the long run, (50 years?) nuclear will probably turn out to be 10 times cheaper than wind/solar
strativarius
March 17, 2024 3:31 am
Physician: Heal thyself.
We have the most enormous queues [which get longer, rather than shorter] in the hallowed No Hope Service….
“”NHS waiting lists will not recover to pre-pandemic levels over the next four years, according to analysis. Despite recent reductions in the waiting list in England, the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) said that it is “unlikely that waiting lists will reach pre-pandemic levels” by December 2027 – even under a “best-case scenario””. https://www.itv.com/news/2024-02-28/nhs-waiting-list-recovery-could-take-years-report
Our valiant doctors are demanding a 35% pay increase (and climate justice, while treating the world for free via ‘health tourism’)
So what does all this have to do with the climate of the Earth?
“”UK doctors involved in climate protests face threat of being struck off … Dr Sarah Benn has long been concerned about the climate crisis, diligently recycling until she was “blue in the face” … working as a GP near Birmingham, Benn became increasingly involved in direct action over the next few years … After her first four criminal convictions – two for obstructing a highway, one for stopping people engaged in a lawful activity and one for flying a drone in a restricted place – the General Medical Council opened an investigation. … Benn has now retired and is no longer practising as a GP. But she wants the GMC to recognise the importance of her actions, and said doctors should be seen as “trusted messengers”. … Benn said she saw a growing activism in her profession, which is reflected in its academic literature. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/mar/16/uk-doctors-involved-in-climate-protests-face-threat-of-being-struck-off
Her priority was certainly not her patients. And as for the ‘literature’, I think The Lancet etc is a completely, totally and utterly busted flush….
This is the heart of the problem for climate science. Their “science” completely misses the effect of water. It’s not only the feedback it gets wrong, it gets the direct effect of CO2 on evaporation wrong.
Climate science thinks the additional energy absorbed by CO2 doubling first heats the surface. It doesn’t. That energy is directly converted into latent heat. We get no surface warming at all.
That means the entire temperature effect of increasing CO2 depends entirely on what water vapor does. Turns out the effect low in the atmosphere is saturated or irrelevant due to clouds. And, as the historic data clearly shows, high altitude water vapor is decreasing. This allows the extra latent heat produced at the surface to escape to space more easily as the water vapor condenses.
The only effect from increasing CO2 is more precipitation.
I like baloney sandwiches. I also completely understand why you fail to understand this topic. So does almost everyone else. I happened on it quite by chance.
First I had to learn something I call the dirty dozen fun physics facts. Without understanding this level of detail one will never understand what is going on.
Next, I had to apply those facts to the surface and atmospheric boundary layer.
I find it quite telling when someone with zero knowledge of the topic claims I am full of “baloney”. What’s also interesting is these same people are never interested in discussing the subject.
It was a very long paper so i just read the summary at the end
Scientists have a lot of guesses about the water vapor positive feedback (WVPF)
In general Climate Realists say it multiplies the warming effects of CO2 alone by 0 to 2x and climate howlers claim 4x to 6x.
That’s a wide range.
Which usually means no one really knows
You claim the water vapor positive feedback does not exist. That is an extreme position I am not buying. A warmer troposphere is capable of holding more water vapor.
The Climate Howlers use a high WVPF to scare people. Multiply the lab spectroscopy warming of CO2 x 2 by 4x to 6x and you convert harmless AGW into CAGW.
The IPCC was formed to scare people about CAGW so we are stuck with predictions of a strong WVPF for a long time.
The clever IPCC says the water vapor positive feedback is gradual and takes a long time. That means everyone who invented the strong WVPF theory, and those who disagree, will all be dead before the right answer is known.
I already know the answer
It will be warmer in 100 years,
unless it is colder.
I don’t think climate can be
predicted 100 years in advance.
But I hope for warmer from now on.
Why did God invent whiskey?
So the Irish wouldn’t take over the World!
😎
strativarius
March 17, 2024 6:30 am
Open Thread. The challenge for US medicinal science.
“”The ban on puberty blockers was long overdue For far too long, the NHS put the demands of trans activists above the safety of children. … It has taken the NHS years to accept that these experimental, off-label drugs should not be given to kids. That it has taken so long speaks volumes about the stranglehold the trans lobby has had on the medical profession. After all, the dangers of puberty blockers have long been obvious to anyone paying attention.”” https://www.spiked-online.com/2024/03/13/the-ban-on-puberty-blockers-was-long-overdue/
The challenge for the US?
“”Many kids have already completed puberty by the age of 13 or 14 … so we start blockers when puberty starts,” Forcier said. “” … …gender-affirming hormones for older teens and adults help them hormonally mature into the bodily features associated with their gender identity” https://edition.cnn.com/2024/03/15/health/puberty-blockers-explained-nhs-wellness/index.html
Hmmm, you don’t know anything at 14, you’re just starting to test how the world works…most places you can’t even buy cigarettes, certainly not alcohol, why would anyone waste money on hormones and surgery when they don’t even know what their chosen career might be ?
Their objective is to destroy the United States, or similar freedom-loving country as constituted, and change it into something much different, and much more authoritarian, and one of the first things they do is try to destroy the family bonds. They want the State controlling your children.
So they disrupt families by interjecting Trans ideology into the mix, by confusing the hell out of kids, and they do the same thing when they disrupt female sports by injecting Trans athletes into that mix.
Their aim is to tear down every aspect of current society and rebuild it under a marxist model.
They are attacking every part of our society.
They have pushed it to the point where they are getting resistance more and more, so we will see what happens in the future.
Can people save themselves from the radical Left? That is the question.
When you have a lot of expensive wind and solar systems, that produce expensive wholesale electricity and need a lot of subsidies, eventually, you will need large-scale battery systems to counteract the ups and downs of wind output and the midday bulges of solar output, especially after the climate know-nothings, with basket weaving and rioting degrees, cause the closure of traditional power plants, as they did in dysfunctional Germany and California. Those traditional plants have proven for about 100 years, they can function on their own, without any need for wind and solar systems, at much lower cost per kWh, and requiring no subsidies.
Example of Turnkey Cost of Large-Scale, Megapack Battery System, 2023 pricing
The system consists of 50 Megapack 2, rated 45.3 MW/181.9 MWh, 4-h energy delivery
Power = 50 Megapacks x 0.979 MW x 0.926, Tesla design factor = 45.3 MW
Energy = 50 Megapacks x 3.916 MWh x 0.929, Tesla design factor = 181.9 MWh
Estimate of supply by Tesla, $90 million, or $495/kWh. See URL
Estimate of supply by Others, $14.5 million, or $80/kWh
All-in, turnkey cost about $575/kWh; 2023 pricing
Annual Cost of Megapack Battery Systems; 2023 pricing
Assume a system rated 45.3 MW/181.9 MWh, and an all-in turnkey cost of $104.5 million, per Example 2
Amortize bank loan for 50% of $104.5 million at 6.5%/y for 15 years, $5.484 million/y
Pay Owner return of 50% of $104.5 million at 10%/y for 15 years, $6.765 million/y (10% due to high inflation)
Lifetime (Bank + Owner) payments 15 x (5.484 + 6.765) = $183.7 million
Assume battery daily usage for 15 years at 10%, and loss factor = 1/(0.9 *0.9)
Battery lifetime output = 15 y x 365 d/y x 181.9 MWh x 0.1, usage x 1000 kWh/MWh = 99,590,250 kWh to HV grid; 122,950,926 kWh from HV grid; 233,606,676 kWh loss
(Bank + Owner) payments, $183.7 million / 99,590,250 kWh = 184.5 c/kWh
Less 50% subsidies (ITC, depreciation in 5 years, deduction of interest on borrowed funds) is 92.3c/kWh
At 10% usage, (Bank + Owner) cost, 92.3 c/kWh
At 40% usage, (Bank + Owner) cost, 23.1 c/kWh
Excluded costs/kWh: 1) O&M; 2) system aging, 1.5%/y, 3) 19% HV grid-to-HV grid loss, 3) grid extension/reinforcement to connect battery systems, 5) downtime of parts of the system, 6) decommissioning in year 15, i.e., disassembly, reprocessing and storing at hazardous waste sites. The excluded costs add at least 10 – 15 c/kWh
NOTE: The 40% throughput is close to Tesla’s recommendation of 60% maximum throughput, i.e., not charging above 80% full and not discharging below 20% full, to achieve a 15-y life, with normal aging
Tesla’s recommendation was not heeded by the Owners of the Hornsdale Power Reserve in Australia. They excessively charged/discharged the system. After a few years, they added Megapacks to offset rapid aging of the original system, and added more Megapacks to increase the rating of the expanded system. http://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/the-hornsdale-power-reserve-largest-battery-system-in-australia
COMMENTS ON CALCULATION
Regarding any project, the bank and the owner have to be paid, no matter what.
Therefore, I amortized the bank loan and the owner’s investment
If you divide the total of the payments over 15 years by the throughput during 15 years, you get the cost per kWh, as shown.
According to EIA annual reports, almost all battery systems have throughputs less than 10%. I chose 10% for calculations.
A few battery systems have higher throughputs, if they are used to absorb midday solar and discharge it during peak hour periods of late-afternoon/early-evening.
They may reach up to 40% throughput. I chose 40% for calculations
There is about a 20% round-trip loss, from HV grid to 1) step-down transformer, 2) front-end power electronics, 3) into battery, 4) out of battery, 5) back-end power electronics, 6) step-up transformer, to HV grid, i.e., you have to draw about 50 units from the HV grid to deliver about 40 units to the HV grid, because of a-to-z system losses. That gets worse with aging.
A lot of people do not like these c/kWh numbers, because they have been repeatedly told by self-serving folks, battery Nirvana is just around the corner, which is a load of crap.
A lot of people do not like these c/kWh numbers, because they have been repeatedly told by self-serving folks, nuclear Nirvana is just around the corner, which is a load of crap.
Nuclear Plants by Russia
According to the IAEA, during the first half of 2023, a total of 407 nuclear reactors are in operation at power plants across the world, with a total capacity at about 370,000 MW
Nuclear was 2546 TWh, or 9.2%, of world electricity production in 2022 https://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/batteries-in-new-england
Rosatom, a Russian Company, is building more nuclear reactors than any other country in the world, according to data from the Power Reactor Information System of the International Atomic Energy Agency, IAEA.
The data show, a total of 58 large-scale nuclear power reactors are currently under construction worldwide, of which 23 are being built by Russia.
.
In Egypt, 4 reactors, each 1,200 MW = 4,800 MW for $30 billion, or about $6,250/kW,
The cost of the nuclear power plant is $28.75 billion.
As per a bilateral agreement, signed in 2015, approximately 85% of it is financed by Russia, and to be paid for by Egypt under a 22-year loan with an interest rate of 3%.
That cost is at least 40% less than US/UK/EU
.
In Turkey, 4 reactors, each 1,200 MW = 4,800 MW for $20 billion, or about $4,200/kW, entirely financed by Russia. The plant will be owned and operated by Rosatom
.
In India, 6 VVER-1000 reactors, each 1,000 MW = 6,000 MW at the Kudankulam Nuclear Power Plant.
Capital cost about $15 billion. Units 1, 2, 3 and 4 are in operation, units 5 and 6 are being constructed
.
In Bangladesh: 2 VVER-1200 reactors = 2400 MW at the Rooppur Power Station
Capital cost $12.65 billionis 90% funded by a loan from the Russian government. The two units generating 2400 MW are planned to be operational in 2024 and 2025. Rosatom will operate the units for the first year before handing over to Bangladeshi operators. Russia will supply the nuclear fuel and take back and reprocess spent nuclear fuel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooppur_Nuclear_Power_Plant
.
Rosatom, created in 2007 by combining several Russian companies, usually provides full service during the entire project life, such as training, new fuel bundles, refueling, waste processing and waste storage in Russia, etc., because the various countries likely do not have the required systems and infrastructures
. Nuclear: Remember, these nuclear plants reliably produce steady electricity, at reasonable cost/kWh, and have near-zero CO2 emissions
They have about 0.90 capacity factors, and last 60 to 80 years
Nuclear do not require counteracting plants. They can be designed to be load-following, as some are in France
. Wind: Offshore wind systems produce variable, unreliable power, at very high cost/kWh, and are far from CO2-free, on a mine-to-hazardous landfill basis.
They have lifetime capacity factors, on average, of about 0.40; about 0.45 in very windy places
They last about 20 to 25 years in a salt water environment
They require: 1) a fleet of quick-reacting power plants to counteract the up/down wind outputs, on a less-than-minute-by-minute basis, 24/7/365, 2) major expansion/reinforcement of electric grids to connect the wind systems to load centers, 3) a lot of land and sea area, 4) curtailment payments, i.e., pay owners for what they could have produced
. Major Competitors: Rosatom’s direct competitors, according to PRIS data, are three Chinese companies: CNNC, CSPI and CGN.
They are building 22 reactors, but it should be noted, they are being built primarily inside China, and the Chinese partners are building five of them together with Rosatom.
American and European companies are lagging behind Rosatom, by a wide margin,” Alexander Uvarov, a director at the Atom-info Center and editor-in-chief at the atominfo.ru website, told TASS.
. Tripling Nuclear A Total Fantasy: During COP28, Kerry called for the world to triple nuclear, from 370,200 MW to 1,110,600 MW, by 2050. https://phys.org/news/2023-12-triple-nuclear-power-cop28.html
Based on past experience in the US and EU, it takes at least 10 years to commission nuclear plants
Plants with about 39 reactors must be started each year, for 16 years (2024 to 2040), to fill the pipeline, to commission the final ones by 2050, in addition to those already in the pipeline.
. New nuclear: Kerry’s nuclear tripling by 2050, would add 11% of world electricity generation in 2050. See table
Nuclear was 9.2% of 2022 generation. That would become about 5% of 2050 generation, if some older plants are shut down, and plants already in the pipeline are placed in operation,
Total nuclear would be 11+ 5 = 16%; minimal impact on CO2 emissions and ppm in 2050.
Utility-scale nuclear power generation has been proven to be effective, efficient and affordable for ~ 65 years now all around the world.
(for perspective, that used to be more than a human lifetime before the advent of minerals-based fuel sources)
Utility-scale batteries, on the other hand, are still very much in beta-user stage.
And the observational jury is still very much out as to their effectiveness, efficiency and affordability.
And did I mention safety?
“Stick to the devil you know” was not a term that was coined out of ideology, but rather from rationality deriving from real-world observations.
You just highlighted your incessant ignorance, yet again..
It can’t just be bad luck that all your comments are based on a total lack of awareness of reality.
I know comprehension of basic maths is impossible for you… but try to face reality..
Wind and solar are just a deviant, virtue-seeking fad…NOT the future…
The world needs solid reliable electricity to function, batteries are way too expensive and unreliable to do anything but helps smooth other minor fluctuations in the erratic supply from wind and solar.
There are only dispatchable supply that can provide solid reliable electricity are..
COAL, GAS, NUCLEAR .. and HYDRO if the rainfall and terrain allows.
That is where the real future is, once the idiocy of CO2-hatred dies a natural death.
While US people were kept in an induced, feel-good coma for decades, courtesy of the public school system and the lapdog Mass Media, the evil doers, operating under a stone, were:
.
1) Padding voter registration lists with much more names than people 18 and over, as in Michigan, Colorado, etc., plus
.
2) Buying the police force, the post office and the courts, and almost all government employees, plus
.
3) Controlling the counting centers, the rules of the game, and the printing press, in case more ballots were needed to get their favorite candidates over the hump, by hook and by crook, plus.
.
4) Stuffing the ballot drop boxes in the wee hours of the day.
.
Get those illegals into any legal housing
Get them on a list
Get those ballots in the system.
Get those ballots counted.
.
They tell you over and over, the Election was free, open and fair, the best in the world, the most democratic. I have a bridge….
.
Recently, the totally biased US Attorney General stated, IDs of any kind are not required, because that would be “discriminatory”
The US lapdog Media just nods and says nothing!!
A wide open invitation to even more Election fraud.
.
However, every European country REQUIRES PHOTO IDs.
. THE FIX IS IN, PER ELON MUSK
“1) Padding voter registration lists with much more names than people 18 and over, as in Michigan, Colorado, etc., plus”
—————————— This was the primary strategy to win in 2020.It was not just padding voter rolls with 50 people giving an office building as their home address. It was also people who had moved out of the state and were voting elsewhere and dead people still on the lists
The Democraps were sophisticated enough to use a just in time, just enough votes strategy.
Illegal votes came in after midnight on election day in four key states, with just enough illegal votes to win in those four states where Trump was leading at midnight
They were Michigan, Georgia, Arizona and Wisconsin.
This will happen again in 2024 because no one was punished in 2020 and 2021. Trump may need a big majority to win in many swing states — enough so fraud could not reverse his lead.
I only make one prediction every 20 or 30 years, but I expect election fraud in 2024 to be worse than in 2020. It could be very obvious. If it is. I expect the second American civil war, and not just a verbal war.
Richard,
We agree, and that is good.
Trump needs to win by a landslide, so that any cheating will be drowned.
That way he can undo 4 years of idiocies of the Biden cabal.
Many people are so brainwashed, so immersed in the Mass Media/WEF bull manure, from Kindergarten on, they are disturbed when faced with an alternative opinion
.
However, that alternative opinion needs to be listened to, as many countries, including the BRICS-11 countries, have been saying.
The longer the West suppresses that opinion to its domestic audience, the worse for the West.
.
The lack of listening by the West, since 1990, is exactly the problem regarding the difficulty of starting and holding meaningful dialogs.
.
The West has been making the rules, since 1945, and has been aiming to dictate/impose its “rules-based regime” onto the world for decades, as if one shoe fits all. . By implication, the OP-ED distributed by Ed Harinck contains a lot of energy/environment issues, which likely was not realized by some people. .
That “rules-based regime” has been extended by the West into its “environment craze” to prolong the West’s domination/control of the world.
.
The West uses its “rules-based regime” try to to force BRICS-11, etc., to use expensive wind mills, and solar panels, and batteries, instead of plentiful, low-cost fossil fuels, which have been the main driver of the world economy since about 1850.
.
About 80% of the world’s energy, for all purposes, is from low-cost fossil fuels, unchanged for at least 40 years.
.
Prior to 1850, wood was the main driver.
Just imagine, if the world never had fossil fuels and had 7.5 billion people.
The impoverishment would be abominable.
.
The West should be building one hundred, standardized, near-zero-CO2, 2000 MW nuclear plants each year. They are designed to last at least 60 years, to ensure there will be enough power:
.
1) Prior to the world’s fossil fuel supply diminishing, and to
.
2) Provide the steady power supply to synthetically produce the physical ways and means for building the various infrastructures, for mining/processing raw materials, for making tens of thousands of products, for transporting them, for distributing them, and for selling them, including the thousands of products we use, and come in contact with, every day.
.
Wind and solar, with crutches, such as battery systems, could never do that.
Given you seem to be a cheer leader for Russia, I am curious to know what you make of the shame election currently being held, where many of Putins opponents have either been murdered or jailed. Hardly free of fair I would have thought?
Nato and sovereign states can do whatever they want on their own soil and it is absolutly no justification for a war of aggression, neither are Putins dreamed up “security concerns”.
Six states just stopped counting, until they had gathered enough ballots from wherever, so they could be counted, with windows boarded up, into the total, 3 to 6 days AFTER the closing of the polls, a USA historic first, to demonstrate its version of free, open, and fair.
The US people were SOOO screwed, plus they got open borders as a big present, from the senile BIG GUY, and he got his 10%, and gets away with it..
“Six states just stopped counting, until they had gathered enough ballots from wherever, so they could be counted, with windows boarded up, into the total, 3 to 6 days AFTER the closing of the polls, a USA historic first, to demonstrate its version of free, open, and fair.”
Utter bullshit. You got any proof for this made up nonsense?
And faced with countless legal actions since the “Russian Collusion” meme and the Steele Dossier bought and paid for by the DNC/Hillary was shown to be totally bogus.
(Did you know that around that time Bill Clinton was paid $1,000,000 (or was it only $500,000?) to give a one hour speech in Moscow?
“(Did you know that around that time Bill Clinton was paid $1,000,000 (or was it only $500,000?) to give a one hour speech in Moscow?” What was he speaking on?” I doubt that is true, but even if it is… what was the speech about. And surely he can’t have said anything near as bad as the traitor Tucker Carlson who went on a jaunt to promote and suck up to Putin… who at the same time was having a political opponent murdered
Tucker fears Putin and this clouds Tucker’s judgement.
Appeasers fear bullies and are always looking for ways to appease the bully, or they pretend he is not a bully and is just a regular guy. I think this describes Tucker.
“Tucker fears Putin and this clouds Tucker’s judgement.” Maybe you are right, but he did not do his country any favours by doing the propaganda tour he did. What was he thinking endorsing a murderous dictator like that? It wasn’t so long ago republicans like Regan called out tyrants like Putin. What has changed?
Tucker has an appeaser mentality. Ronald Reagan was just the opposite of an appeaser, he was a confronter.
Unfortunately, Tucker’s take on reality is infecting other Republicans who are starting to think it is a good idea to let Ukraine deal with Putin on their own.
They never think about what will happen after Putin takes over Ukraine. They hope he will stop his aggression, but does any reasonable person think that will be the case?
And when Putin attacks a NATO nation, will the Republicans say it’s not their fight? When will it be the Repubicans fight? When Putin comes here?
Appeasers are in such a panic that they don’t think about the future.
The bottom line is: You can’t run away from international bullies. If you try, they will just follow you home. And then where are you going to run?
The only way to deal with international bullies is to confront them. In Ukraine, the U.S. can confront them without putting American troops into the conflict. The Ukrainians are perfectly happy to defend themselves and Democracy on their own if given the equipment and ammunition they need. Even appeasers ought to go along with this. But they don’t because they don’t see the Big Picture.
Appeasement has consequences. Our current world situation is a perfect example of a weak American president encouraging international bullies with his fear of confrontation, which is plain to see for every dictator on Earth.
Bullies like it when you are afraid of them. They like getting their way. They like it when a stupid American president makes it easy for them.
“They never think about what will happen after Putin takes over Ukraine. They hope he will stop his aggression, but does any reasonable person think that will be the case?” 100% right. I sometimes wonder what is with all the support for Putin here.
“Bullies like it when you are afraid of them. They like getting their way. They like it when a stupid American president makes it easy for them.” Again 100% agree I just have a different opinion on which recent president was a bully.
We are talking about Putin… Keep up. If you have nothing to contribute don’t bother responding. It’s called a blog, it’s where people share ideas…. and hello…. sometimes you wont agree.
There probably isn’t any designed longevity. Complex industrial installations, power plants, refineries, factories etc. need to be maintained on a regular basis, parts are replaced according to their particular lifetime, some don’t last as long as others but the totality is most affected by changes in technology and economic factors, not elapsed time.
Yes, I used to design such power plants, including enough redundancy to ensure running 24/7/365, with a shutdown of 5 weeks every 2 to 4 years for refueling
There has been a slow but steady change in the management of public administration over the decades, particularly since governments have increasingly penetrated into the private enterprise field.
The change is about the loss of logical thinking. When a community problem arises, there is now prompt movement away from the primary issue, taking emphasis off the primary issue and creating any number of secondary and tertiary issues, which demand more people be employed on the public purse and more avenues for money to flow to onlookers intent on harvesting other peoples’ monies.
A ready example is about electricity, which I will simplify (and probably reveal some errors from my simplicity).
The primary problem is that communities need more electricity. There are steadily more and more people to service, with more electrical appliances each. The solution to the primary problem is to build more electricity generators. One hardly hears of this primary need in discussion, which has now become mostly about secondary issues like what form of electricity generation to use, then into tertiary issues like governments dictating use of some methods and/or issuing incentives and cash to promote their preferences, or else.
Another example comes from electric cars, The primary issue is that people need cars for customary modern living. The solution is to build more cars as the population grows. The secondary issues, that now dominate discussion, include rules preferring certain types of cars, along with subsidies, incentives and warnings not to buy some types, or else.
I have no answer to this problem, except to mention it to interested others and to hope for some feedback to build the theme into something readable that will benefit others.
Geoff S
Apologies, I forgot to add that this movement is commensurate with too many lawyers being involved, possibly trying to do work that should be done by scientists with records of success. (Not you, Rud Istvan, you are more than a lawyer.) Geoff S
I recently had a conversation with a relative. The subject turned to global warming.
I mentioned that it’s rather ironic to discuss global warming when the earth is in an Ice Age. (google it, yes the earth is in an ice age). My relative didn’t believe me.
I also mentioned that the earth is greener now than 50 years ago. Again, my relative didn’t believe me. I sent a NASA link that showed the earth is greener now than 20 years ago. I couldn’t find the NASA page where it went back 50 years and showed the greening of the earth.
I think that getting those two facts more visibility would further weaken support for this CAGW silliness.
Last summer in the U.S. there was a warm spell in the central states. This video captures hourly images for 15 days ending August 27, 2023. These are for the CONUS region as visualized from radiance data on Band 16 from the GOES East geostationary satellite. NOAA calls this the “CO2 Longwave IR” band, centered at a wavelength of 13.3 microns at the edge of the “atmospheric window” part of the spectrum. This band is where a significant part of the static radiative warming effect of incremental CO2 is computed. The color scale for visualization is such that the radiance at 30C “brightness temperature” (yellow) is 10 times the radiance at -90C (white.)
https://youtu.be/I0OCzxUyMqQ
I am posting this to emphasize the very rapid rise and decay of the longwave emission to space from the surface + atmosphere in areas of mostly clear skies and strong sunshine. And the images also help show how much the formation and dissipation of clouds matters to the dynamic overall result of longwave emission to space.
So yes, from the concept of the static radiative effect of incremental CO2, it does seem “reasonable” to expect some amount of warming of the land + ocean system. Until you realize how it works by watching from space. Then it becomes clear, just like “the sky is blue”, that the dynamic result is not constrained by the static effect.
I greatly appreciate these “open thread” opportunities.
Very cool stuff, David. I’m thinking you should give more description. Maybe throw in a few Watt/sq.M for the main colors. Stating “The color scale…yellow…is 10 times the radiance…at white”, significantly enlightened your point. Thanks for this.
Thanks, I ran out of time this morning and realized there is no button to directly upload an image. So here are links to two plots that give a better sense of what is being visualized.
This is radiance vs. “brightness temperature” per NASA’s formula and color scale.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qy4QnSkaJZeLIeC4R7-600ZuctPEUwaz/view?usp=drive_link
From a Modtran exercise, this shows the clear-sky radiance looking down vs wavelength for 280 ppmv CO2 vs 560 ppmv CO2. The relevance of Band 16 is apparent – i.e. the magenta portion is a significant part of the total area under the curve of the difference, which represents the direct “warming” effect of the 2XCO2 case.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/175qnVngPPfZJKUPUH13u6t5wolTBl0qi/view?usp=drive_link
There is also a more complete explanation in the description box on Youtube.
There is a button to upload an image on the reply box.
Reply to yourself and upload the image that way.
Again thanks, your Band 16 description has significantly improved my understanding of why certain GOES bands were selected….by people who obviously thought about sensor capabilities much more than I.
In my opinion, the yellow is showing water vapor. For example, lots yellow around the Gulf of Mexico, not much over Nevada.
Band 16 does not relate to water vapor per se. It is simply the strength of the radiance, the source of which is some composite of surface black body emission + emission from within the overlying atmosphere. For clear areas, the surface is the ground or ocean; where there are clouds, the surface is the cloud top.
Bands 8, 9, and 10 are specifically used for water vapor.
https://www.star.nesdis.noaa.gov/GOES/conus.php?sat=G16
Seems strange to me that Muslims are upset at the current Gaza conflict (inflicted upon Palestinians by their political leadership in HAMAS) during Ramadan – but are seemingly oblivious to the ongoing suffering of the Uighurs.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/03/16/ramadan-israel-gaza-war/
Maybe it is the case that they see the West’s resolve crumbling over the the 10/07 War Crimes atrocity … but are willing to ignore China’s abuses – because they cannot sway China’s resolve?
Muslims are a diverse people. I have a sense many muslims find the Palestinians tiresome. They murmur support for appearances sake but could happily do without their antics. Also the vast majority of Palestinians are Sunni, so they don’t get a lot of love from the Shia. Iran uses the Palestinians but doesn’t love them.
As for why people don’t bother talking to China, we all know how much we depend on China and we know China doesn’t welcome criticism. That goes for pretty much everything China does that we’d prefer they didn’t.
Muslims are a diverse people.
No, no, no.
Are Christians a diverse people? Of course not. There are Sunni, there are Shia and there are Ahmadi
https://web.archive.org/web/20120318121727/http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/news/local/wimbledonnews/8451614.Election_race_infected_by_anti_Ahmadiyya_hate_campaign/
How would you describe the Sunni hatred of the vehement Ahmadi muslims?
Christians aren’t diverse? Maybe we’re talking past each other. You seem to go on to make the same point I thought I was making.
“Muslims are a diverse people.”
They are not a people. They are not a race.
Hopefully that’s cleared that up.
How many on the [woke] left are aware of the meeting between A. Hitler and the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini, on November 28, 1941, at the Reich Chancellory in Berlin?
How many know…
“”The Fuhrer then made the following statement to the Mufti, enjoining him to lock it in the uttermost depths of his heart:
1. He (the Fuhrer) would carry on the battle to the total destruction of the Judeo-Communist empire in Europe.
2. At some moment which was impossible to set exactly today but which in any event was not distant, the German armies would in the course of this struggle reach the southern exit from Caucasia.
3. As soon as this had happened, the Fuhrer would on his own give the Arab world the assurance that its hour of liberation had arrived. Germany’s objective would then be solely the destruction of the Jewish element residing in the Arab sphere under the protection of British power. In that hour the Mufti would be the most authoritative spokesman for the Arab world. It would then be his task to set off the Arab operations, which he had secretly prepared.””
The Arabs were Germany’s natural friends, Haj Amin al-Husseini told the NSDAP leader in 1941, because they had the same enemies — namely the English, the Jews and the Communistshttps://www.timesofisrael.com/full-official-record-what-the-mufti-said-to-hitler/
Egypt refused to open their border to the Palestinians, Jordan and others have kicked them out. No Muslim country comes their aid except Iran.
The Pope’s quote from years ago about “When you look at Islam you see blood.” (Not exact) Should not be apologized for.
I believe that you are referring to Pope Benedict XVI’s lecture at the University of Regensburg where he quoted an emperor of the Eastern Roman empire (Manuel II) who had said (in 1391):
These are the words that the pope said in introducing that quote:
About 2000 years ago, the Romans exiled the troublesome Jews from that area, and renamed it Palestine, in honor of the people who had been living there.
In 1948, many Jews were illegally brought with ships from Europe to Palestine, and they renamed it Israel.
When the displeased Palestinians, Jordanians, Egyptians, etc., attacked, they were defeated by the weapons the UK had conveniently left behind.
The Palestinians lost half of their country, and they have been losing more and more, as Israel has been expelling and expanding, for decades
The latest expansion and attempted expelling and partial elimination is in The Gaza area.
You are a clueless antisemite
In an effort to win the support of Jewish communities in both Allied countries like the United States, and enemy countries like Austria Hungary, the UK foreign secretary signed the Balfour Declaration. Vowing to set up a national home for the Jewish people in Palestine.
The national home for Jews was set up because no other nation wanted Jews. FDR would not even let Jews come to the US after Hitler came to power, which could have saved a million lives..
The Jews in Israel asked all the Arabs there to stay and half of them did. The other half fled ONLY because surrounding Arab nations told them to leave. Because they were coming in to kill all the Jews, and Israel would not be safe. The half of the Arabs that stayed still live in Israel (Two million — 21% of the population now). After the 1948 war, surrounding Arab nations threw out almost all the Jews who lived there.
But the Palestinians were already living there, and had been for more than 2500 years.
The UK had taken over Egypt and turned Palestine into a “protectorate”, which, at that time, to the UK elite, meant to do with as it pleased.
So, they partitioned Palestine into a Jewish part and Palestine part, of which the borders were decided in London.
Obviously, the Palestinians, etc., were not happy about it, etc.
How would you like it, if London decided the western half of the US would be given to immigrants from Europe, etc., to establish their own “Homeland” with its own language and religion
I’m neither a Muslim nor a Christian, nor an Arab, Uighur, Persian, Turk, or Pathan, yet I’m upset at the continuing mass murder and toture inflicted on the prisoners of Gaza by the Israeli “Defense” Forces. I might seem to be “oblivious” to the suffering of the Uighurs, although I am not. I can easily distinguish the difference in magnitude of the two crimes, and especially the urgency of the need to arrest the complicity of the US Government in this heinous crime, which exceeds the horror of the Holocaust by far because it is being committed by two democratically elected governments with the apparent support of an informed and free electorate.
I dislike glorifying brutality with meaningless terms like “genocide”, “terrorism”, or “hate crime”, when perfectly appropriate terms like “extermination”, “brutality”, and “bigotry” are available. However, if one must use the term “terrorist”, then I would suggest that the Israeli Defense Forces have more than proven themselves worthy of being labeled as a terrorist organization.
I don’t believe the current Israeli Government, nor most Israelis, are so stupid as to think that they can exterminate the Palestinians. However, they can certainly reduce their population to an unviable remnant. The evidence is that they are well on the way to succeeding in that, and I believe they are smart enough to know that this will force them to adopt a perpetual defensive state against retribution from the survivors, not only in Israel, but also in the diaspora. And presumably that is their goal.
But whatever the goal, murder is murder. And Israel appears to have benefitted greatly over the past decades by the West’s “free” press turning a blind eye to the murder and mutilation it has visited on the residents of Gaza for decades. So I only learned during this “war” that, during the last uprising in Gaza, Israeli army snipers intentionally crippled stone-throwing Palestinian youths by inflicting wounds requiring amputation on their arms and legs.
It turns out that Stalin was right when he laughed at Churchill and Roosevelt’s Nurnberg trials, commenting, “I’d just line them up and shoot them.” Sadly, it’s unlikely the current champion mass murderers and their enablers will ever be tried, or lined up and shot. But maybe some crowd-funded executions are a modern possibility…
Australia’s biggest smelter to launch massive wind and solar tender, says nuclear too costly
https://reneweconomy.com.au/australias-biggest-smelter-to-launch-massive-wind-and-solar-tender-says-nuclear-too-costly/
Are you an Australian?
I’ll take the non answer as a No.
Of course not, do I sound like someone living close to Italy? 😛
“”do I sound like… “”
Sound? In a text based format?
If you live close to Italy, e chi se ne frega?
you sound like someone living in the gutter… by choice.
AAAAAAAAAAAAh ha ha ha ha ha ha…
Can a smelter work when it shuts down unpredictably for hours, days or even weeks many times a year?
Better call the owners, I bet they didn’t think of that.
Yeah, the owners are probably real clever, like the imbecile Net Zero politicians running Australia right now.
It can shut down permanently if the government kicks in sufficient taxpayers’ $$$$s.
From MyUserName’s link
The devil is in the details.
Of course nuclear power costs more up front but a plant will last 50 to 100 years. Windmills and solar panels must be replaced every 15 to 20 years. Batteries too.
Smelting is a process of applying heat and a chemical reducing agent to an ore to extract a desired base metal product. It is a form of extractive metallurgy …
I thought the operating pots run continuously (24 hours a day, 365 days per year). But wind and solar can’t meet that challenge.
I thought smelters used coal. Australia has coal
That seems like the right, reliable energy source to me. I would not invest in that company.
The Tomago smelter was built where it is because of its proximity to the big coal plants in the Hunter valley.
They provide a large continuous load that allows the power stations to operate at a good constant level, and were given very good concessional electricity costs to do so.
The alumina/aluminium industry in Australian mining circles has been efficient and major for decades. There is no plausible reason for government policies to dictate or affect the electricity source, because that is a major factor. Refiners and smelters move around the world to chase reliable, efficient and low cost electricity.
In my decades in the industry, the thought of using wind or solar energy was met with a snigger and rapidly dismissed. Nothing has changed in the basic economic analysis.
I do wonder about the strength of resolve of the modern CEO set in the Australian mining industry. Such people should be insisting to governments that economics are more important than ideology. Even if hydrocarbon fuels are causing global climate change, there is room for important exceptions like the aluminium industry to continue with coal. We build aircraft from aluminium. They are an invention that society would like to keep.
Geoff S
In the long run, (50 years?) nuclear will probably turn out to be 10 times cheaper than wind/solar
Physician: Heal thyself.
We have the most enormous queues [which get longer, rather than shorter] in the hallowed No Hope Service….
“”NHS waiting lists will not recover to pre-pandemic levels over the next four years, according to analysis. Despite recent reductions in the waiting list in England, the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) said that it is “unlikely that waiting lists will reach pre-pandemic levels” by December 2027 – even under a “best-case scenario””.
https://www.itv.com/news/2024-02-28/nhs-waiting-list-recovery-could-take-years-report
Our valiant doctors are demanding a 35% pay increase (and climate justice, while treating the world for free via ‘health tourism’)
“”NHS strikes: More than a million appointments cancelled in England””
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-66918525
So what does all this have to do with the climate of the Earth?
“”UK doctors involved in climate protests face threat of being struck off
…
Dr Sarah Benn has long been concerned about the climate crisis, diligently recycling until she was “blue in the face”
…
working as a GP near Birmingham, Benn became increasingly involved in direct action over the next few years
…
After her first four criminal convictions – two for obstructing a highway, one for stopping people engaged in a lawful activity and one for flying a drone in a restricted place – the General Medical Council opened an investigation.
…
Benn has now retired and is no longer practising as a GP. But she wants the GMC to recognise the importance of her actions, and said doctors should be seen as “trusted messengers”.
…
Benn said she saw a growing activism in her profession, which is reflected in its academic literature.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/mar/16/uk-doctors-involved-in-climate-protests-face-threat-of-being-struck-off
Her priority was certainly not her patients. And as for the ‘literature’, I think The Lancet etc is a completely, totally and utterly busted flush….
“”Climate change is the greatest global health threat facing the world in the 21st century””
https://www.thelancet.com/countdown-health-climate
Benn. Any relation to you know who?
Not that I know of. There are quite a few Bennders in Hilary’s [son of Anthony Wedgewood Benn] upper class circles.
The falsification of WV Feedback:
https://greenhousedefect.com/the-holy-grail-of-ecs/the-incredibly-stupid-case-of-water-vapor-feedback
This is the heart of the problem for climate science. Their “science” completely misses the effect of water. It’s not only the feedback it gets wrong, it gets the direct effect of CO2 on evaporation wrong.
Climate science thinks the additional energy absorbed by CO2 doubling first heats the surface. It doesn’t. That energy is directly converted into latent heat. We get no surface warming at all.
That means the entire temperature effect of increasing CO2 depends entirely on what water vapor does. Turns out the effect low in the atmosphere is saturated or irrelevant due to clouds. And, as the historic data clearly shows, high altitude water vapor is decreasing. This allows the extra latent heat produced at the surface to escape to space more easily as the water vapor condenses.
The only effect from increasing CO2 is more precipitation.
You just served a big, fat baloney sandwich
I like baloney sandwiches. I also completely understand why you fail to understand this topic. So does almost everyone else. I happened on it quite by chance.
First I had to learn something I call the dirty dozen fun physics facts. Without understanding this level of detail one will never understand what is going on.
Next, I had to apply those facts to the surface and atmospheric boundary layer.
I find it quite telling when someone with zero knowledge of the topic claims I am full of “baloney”. What’s also interesting is these same people are never interested in discussing the subject.
Forget about Greene, the real question is what the hell is baloney anyway?
Is like mortadella?
Only fools claim CO2 can not cause global warming. Almost 100% of climate scientists have disagreed since 1896.
You are a fool
It was a very long paper so i just read the summary at the end
Scientists have a lot of guesses about the water vapor positive feedback (WVPF)
In general Climate Realists say it multiplies the warming effects of CO2 alone by 0 to 2x and climate howlers claim 4x to 6x.
That’s a wide range.
Which usually means no one really knows
You claim the water vapor positive feedback does not exist. That is an extreme position I am not buying. A warmer troposphere is capable of holding more water vapor.
The Climate Howlers use a high WVPF to scare people. Multiply the lab spectroscopy warming of CO2 x 2 by 4x to 6x and you convert harmless AGW into CAGW.
The IPCC was formed to scare people about CAGW so we are stuck with predictions of a strong WVPF for a long time.
The clever IPCC says the water vapor positive feedback is gradual and takes a long time. That means everyone who invented the strong WVPF theory, and those who disagree, will all be dead before the right answer is known.
I already know the answer
It will be warmer in 100 years,
unless it is colder.
I don’t think climate can be
predicted 100 years in advance.
But I hope for warmer from now on.
“A warmer troposphere “
No evidence that CO2 is a cause.
You keep proving that.
And you keep overdosing on stupid pills,
bNasty2000.
The Chicago river is greening.
Old joke I first heard from an Irishman.
Why did God invent whiskey?
So the Irish wouldn’t take over the World!
😎
Open Thread. The challenge for US medicinal science.
“”The ban on puberty blockers was long overdue
For far too long, the NHS put the demands of trans activists above the safety of children.
…
It has taken the NHS years to accept that these experimental, off-label drugs should not be given to kids. That it has taken so long speaks volumes about the stranglehold the trans lobby has had on the medical profession. After all, the dangers of puberty blockers have long been obvious to anyone paying attention.””
https://www.spiked-online.com/2024/03/13/the-ban-on-puberty-blockers-was-long-overdue/
The challenge for the US?
“”Many kids have already completed puberty by the age of 13 or 14 … so we start blockers when puberty starts,” Forcier said. “”
…
…gender-affirming hormones for older teens and adults help them hormonally mature into the bodily features associated with their gender identity”
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/03/15/health/puberty-blockers-explained-nhs-wellness/index.html
We seem to be slightly ahead on this one.
Hmmm, you don’t know anything at 14, you’re just starting to test how the world works…most places you can’t even buy cigarettes, certainly not alcohol, why would anyone waste money on hormones and surgery when they don’t even know what their chosen career might be ?
It’s an ideology
It’s a marxists/radical leftist tactic.
Their objective is to destroy the United States, or similar freedom-loving country as constituted, and change it into something much different, and much more authoritarian, and one of the first things they do is try to destroy the family bonds. They want the State controlling your children.
So they disrupt families by interjecting Trans ideology into the mix, by confusing the hell out of kids, and they do the same thing when they disrupt female sports by injecting Trans athletes into that mix.
Their aim is to tear down every aspect of current society and rebuild it under a marxist model.
They are attacking every part of our society.
They have pushed it to the point where they are getting resistance more and more, so we will see what happens in the future.
Can people save themselves from the radical Left? That is the question.
Put it on T- shirts, mugs, stickers, everything.
When you have a lot of expensive wind and solar systems, that produce expensive wholesale electricity and need a lot of subsidies, eventually, you will need large-scale battery systems to counteract the ups and downs of wind output and the midday bulges of solar output, especially after the climate know-nothings, with basket weaving and rioting degrees, cause the closure of traditional power plants, as they did in dysfunctional Germany and California. Those traditional plants have proven for about 100 years, they can function on their own, without any need for wind and solar systems, at much lower cost per kWh, and requiring no subsidies.
BATTERY SYSTEM CAPITAL COSTS, OPERATING COSTS, ENERGY LOSSES, AND AGING
https://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/battery-system-capital-costs-losses-and-aging
EXCERPT
Example of Turnkey Cost of Large-Scale, Megapack Battery System, 2023 pricing
?itok=lxTa2SlF
The system consists of 50 Megapack 2, rated 45.3 MW/181.9 MWh, 4-h energy delivery
Power = 50 Megapacks x 0.979 MW x 0.926, Tesla design factor = 45.3 MW
Energy = 50 Megapacks x 3.916 MWh x 0.929, Tesla design factor = 181.9 MWh
Estimate of supply by Tesla, $90 million, or $495/kWh. See URL
Estimate of supply by Others, $14.5 million, or $80/kWh
All-in, turnkey cost about $575/kWh; 2023 pricing
https://www.tesla.com/megapack/design
https://www.zerohedge.com/commodities/tesla-hikes-megapack-prices-commodity-inflation-soars
Annual Cost of Megapack Battery Systems; 2023 pricing
Assume a system rated 45.3 MW/181.9 MWh, and an all-in turnkey cost of $104.5 million, per Example 2
Amortize bank loan for 50% of $104.5 million at 6.5%/y for 15 years, $5.484 million/y
Pay Owner return of 50% of $104.5 million at 10%/y for 15 years, $6.765 million/y (10% due to high inflation)
Lifetime (Bank + Owner) payments 15 x (5.484 + 6.765) = $183.7 million
Assume battery daily usage for 15 years at 10%, and loss factor = 1/(0.9 *0.9)
Battery lifetime output = 15 y x 365 d/y x 181.9 MWh x 0.1, usage x 1000 kWh/MWh = 99,590,250 kWh to HV grid; 122,950,926 kWh from HV grid; 233,606,676 kWh loss
(Bank + Owner) payments, $183.7 million / 99,590,250 kWh = 184.5 c/kWh
Less 50% subsidies (ITC, depreciation in 5 years, deduction of interest on borrowed funds) is 92.3c/kWh
At 10% usage, (Bank + Owner) cost, 92.3 c/kWh
At 40% usage, (Bank + Owner) cost, 23.1 c/kWh
Excluded costs/kWh: 1) O&M; 2) system aging, 1.5%/y, 3) 19% HV grid-to-HV grid loss, 3) grid extension/reinforcement to connect battery systems, 5) downtime of parts of the system, 6) decommissioning in year 15, i.e., disassembly, reprocessing and storing at hazardous waste sites. The excluded costs add at least 10 – 15 c/kWh
NOTE: The 40% throughput is close to Tesla’s recommendation of 60% maximum throughput, i.e., not charging above 80% full and not discharging below 20% full, to achieve a 15-y life, with normal aging
Tesla’s recommendation was not heeded by the Owners of the Hornsdale Power Reserve in Australia. They excessively charged/discharged the system. After a few years, they added Megapacks to offset rapid aging of the original system, and added more Megapacks to increase the rating of the expanded system.
http://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/the-hornsdale-power-reserve-largest-battery-system-in-australia
COMMENTS ON CALCULATION
Regarding any project, the bank and the owner have to be paid, no matter what.
Therefore, I amortized the bank loan and the owner’s investment
If you divide the total of the payments over 15 years by the throughput during 15 years, you get the cost per kWh, as shown.
According to EIA annual reports, almost all battery systems have throughputs less than 10%. I chose 10% for calculations.
A few battery systems have higher throughputs, if they are used to absorb midday solar and discharge it during peak hour periods of late-afternoon/early-evening.
They may reach up to 40% throughput. I chose 40% for calculations
There is about a 20% round-trip loss, from HV grid to 1) step-down transformer, 2) front-end power electronics, 3) into battery, 4) out of battery, 5) back-end power electronics, 6) step-up transformer, to HV grid, i.e., you have to draw about 50 units from the HV grid to deliver about 40 units to the HV grid, because of a-to-z system losses. That gets worse with aging.
A lot of people do not like these c/kWh numbers, because they have been repeatedly told by self-serving folks, battery Nirvana is just around the corner, which is a load of crap.
Fixed that for you.
Lusername eats more shoe leather — film at 11.
You mean like this?
Nuclear Plants by Russia
According to the IAEA, during the first half of 2023, a total of 407 nuclear reactors are in operation at power plants across the world, with a total capacity at about 370,000 MW
Nuclear was 2546 TWh, or 9.2%, of world electricity production in 2022
https://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/batteries-in-new-england
Rosatom, a Russian Company, is building more nuclear reactors than any other country in the world, according to data from the Power Reactor Information System of the International Atomic Energy Agency, IAEA.
The data show, a total of 58 large-scale nuclear power reactors are currently under construction worldwide, of which 23 are being built by Russia.
.
In Egypt, 4 reactors, each 1,200 MW = 4,800 MW for $30 billion, or about $6,250/kW,
The cost of the nuclear power plant is $28.75 billion.
As per a bilateral agreement, signed in 2015, approximately 85% of it is financed by Russia, and to be paid for by Egypt under a 22-year loan with an interest rate of 3%.
That cost is at least 40% less than US/UK/EU
.
In Turkey, 4 reactors, each 1,200 MW = 4,800 MW for $20 billion, or about $4,200/kW, entirely financed by Russia. The plant will be owned and operated by Rosatom
.
In India, 6 VVER-1000 reactors, each 1,000 MW = 6,000 MW at the Kudankulam Nuclear Power Plant.
Capital cost about $15 billion. Units 1, 2, 3 and 4 are in operation, units 5 and 6 are being constructed
.
In Bangladesh: 2 VVER-1200 reactors = 2400 MW at the Rooppur Power Station
Capital cost $12.65 billion is 90% funded by a loan from the Russian government. The two units generating 2400 MW are planned to be operational in 2024 and 2025. Rosatom will operate the units for the first year before handing over to Bangladeshi operators. Russia will supply the nuclear fuel and take back and reprocess spent nuclear fuel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooppur_Nuclear_Power_Plant
.
Rosatom, created in 2007 by combining several Russian companies, usually provides full service during the entire project life, such as training, new fuel bundles, refueling, waste processing and waste storage in Russia, etc., because the various countries likely do not have the required systems and infrastructures
.
Nuclear: Remember, these nuclear plants reliably produce steady electricity, at reasonable cost/kWh, and have near-zero CO2 emissions
They have about 0.90 capacity factors, and last 60 to 80 years
Nuclear do not require counteracting plants. They can be designed to be load-following, as some are in France
.
Wind: Offshore wind systems produce variable, unreliable power, at very high cost/kWh, and are far from CO2-free, on a mine-to-hazardous landfill basis.
They have lifetime capacity factors, on average, of about 0.40; about 0.45 in very windy places
They last about 20 to 25 years in a salt water environment
They require: 1) a fleet of quick-reacting power plants to counteract the up/down wind outputs, on a less-than-minute-by-minute basis, 24/7/365, 2) major expansion/reinforcement of electric grids to connect the wind systems to load centers, 3) a lot of land and sea area, 4) curtailment payments, i.e., pay owners for what they could have produced
.
Major Competitors: Rosatom’s direct competitors, according to PRIS data, are three Chinese companies: CNNC, CSPI and CGN.
They are building 22 reactors, but it should be noted, they are being built primarily inside China, and the Chinese partners are building five of them together with Rosatom.
American and European companies are lagging behind Rosatom, by a wide margin,” Alexander Uvarov, a director at the Atom-info Center and editor-in-chief at the atominfo.ru website, told TASS.
.
Tripling Nuclear A Total Fantasy: During COP28, Kerry called for the world to triple nuclear, from 370,200 MW to 1,110,600 MW, by 2050.
https://phys.org/news/2023-12-triple-nuclear-power-cop28.html
Based on past experience in the US and EU, it takes at least 10 years to commission nuclear plants
Plants with about 39 reactors must be started each year, for 16 years (2024 to 2040), to fill the pipeline, to commission the final ones by 2050, in addition to those already in the pipeline.
.
New nuclear: Kerry’s nuclear tripling by 2050, would add 11% of world electricity generation in 2050. See table
Nuclear was 9.2% of 2022 generation. That would become about 5% of 2050 generation, if some older plants are shut down, and plants already in the pipeline are placed in operation,
Total nuclear would be 11+ 5 = 16%; minimal impact on CO2 emissions and ppm in 2050.
Utility-scale nuclear power generation has been proven to be effective, efficient and affordable for ~ 65 years now all around the world.
(for perspective, that used to be more than a human lifetime before the advent of minerals-based fuel sources)
Utility-scale batteries, on the other hand, are still very much in beta-user stage.
And the observational jury is still very much out as to their effectiveness, efficiency and affordability.
And did I mention safety?
“Stick to the devil you know” was not a term that was coined out of ideology, but rather from rationality deriving from real-world observations.
You just highlighted your incessant ignorance, yet again..
It can’t just be bad luck that all your comments are based on a total lack of awareness of reality.
I know comprehension of basic maths is impossible for you… but try to face reality..
Wind and solar are just a deviant, virtue-seeking fad…NOT the future…
The world needs solid reliable electricity to function, batteries are way too expensive and unreliable to do anything but helps smooth other minor fluctuations in the erratic supply from wind and solar.
There are only dispatchable supply that can provide solid reliable electricity are..
COAL, GAS, NUCLEAR .. and HYDRO if the rainfall and terrain allows.
That is where the real future is, once the idiocy of CO2-hatred dies a natural death.
While US people were kept in an induced, feel-good coma for decades, courtesy of the public school system and the lapdog Mass Media, the evil doers, operating under a stone, were:
.
1) Padding voter registration lists with much more names than people 18 and over, as in Michigan, Colorado, etc., plus
.
2) Buying the police force, the post office and the courts, and almost all government employees, plus
.
3) Controlling the counting centers, the rules of the game, and the printing press, in case more ballots were needed to get their favorite candidates over the hump, by hook and by crook, plus.
.
4) Stuffing the ballot drop boxes in the wee hours of the day.
.
Get those illegals into any legal housing
Get them on a list
Get those ballots in the system.
Get those ballots counted.
.
They tell you over and over, the Election was free, open and fair, the best in the world, the most democratic. I have a bridge….
.
Recently, the totally biased US Attorney General stated, IDs of any kind are not required, because that would be “discriminatory”
The US lapdog Media just nods and says nothing!!
A wide open invitation to even more Election fraud.
.
However, every European country REQUIRES PHOTO IDs.
.
THE FIX IS IN, PER ELON MUSK
“1) Padding voter registration lists with much more names than people 18 and over, as in Michigan, Colorado, etc., plus”
——————————
This was the primary strategy to win in 2020.It was not just padding voter rolls with 50 people giving an office building as their home address. It was also people who had moved out of the state and were voting elsewhere and dead people still on the lists
The Democraps were sophisticated enough to use a just in time, just enough votes strategy.
Illegal votes came in after midnight on election day in four key states, with just enough illegal votes to win in those four states where Trump was leading at midnight
They were Michigan, Georgia, Arizona and Wisconsin.
This will happen again in 2024 because no one was punished in 2020 and 2021. Trump may need a big majority to win in many swing states — enough so fraud could not reverse his lead.
I only make one prediction every 20 or 30 years, but I expect election fraud in 2024 to be worse than in 2020. It could be very obvious. If it is. I expect the second American civil war, and not just a verbal war.
Richard,
We agree, and that is good.
Trump needs to win by a landslide, so that any cheating will be drowned.
That way he can undo 4 years of idiocies of the Biden cabal.
Trump and other Republicans are making a big effort to try to stop voter fraud.
The Republican National Committee says preventing voter fraud in the 2024 elections is their highest priority.
Trump was also ahead in Pennsylvania by 600,000 votes when I went to bed late and when I woke up the next morning, they said Biden had won the State.
Only in the USA
The big lie behind the Western narrative on Russia is leading us to World War III
https://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/the-big-lie-behind-the-western-narrative-on-russia-is-leading-us.
Many people are so brainwashed, so immersed in the Mass Media/WEF bull manure, from Kindergarten on, they are disturbed when faced with an alternative opinion
.
However, that alternative opinion needs to be listened to, as many countries, including the BRICS-11 countries, have been saying.
The longer the West suppresses that opinion to its domestic audience, the worse for the West.
.
The lack of listening by the West, since 1990, is exactly the problem regarding the difficulty of starting and holding meaningful dialogs.
.
The West has been making the rules, since 1945, and has been aiming to dictate/impose its “rules-based regime” onto the world for decades, as if one shoe fits all.
.
By implication, the OP-ED distributed by Ed Harinck contains a lot of energy/environment issues, which likely was not realized by some people.
.
That “rules-based regime” has been extended by the West into its “environment craze” to prolong the West’s domination/control of the world.
.
The West uses its “rules-based regime” try to to force BRICS-11, etc., to use expensive wind mills, and solar panels, and batteries, instead of plentiful, low-cost fossil fuels, which have been the main driver of the world economy since about 1850.
.
About 80% of the world’s energy, for all purposes, is from low-cost fossil fuels, unchanged for at least 40 years.
.
Prior to 1850, wood was the main driver.
Just imagine, if the world never had fossil fuels and had 7.5 billion people.
The impoverishment would be abominable.
.
The West should be building one hundred, standardized, near-zero-CO2, 2000 MW nuclear plants each year. They are designed to last at least 60 years, to ensure there will be enough power:
.
1) Prior to the world’s fossil fuel supply diminishing, and to
.
2) Provide the steady power supply to synthetically produce the physical ways and means for building the various infrastructures, for mining/processing raw materials, for making tens of thousands of products, for transporting them, for distributing them, and for selling them, including the thousands of products we use, and come in contact with, every day.
.
Wind and solar, with crutches, such as battery systems, could never do that.
Given you seem to be a cheer leader for Russia, I am curious to know what you make of the shame election currently being held, where many of Putins opponents have either been murdered or jailed. Hardly free of fair I would have thought?
You are biased by Western propoaganda, by 150%
Why the Ukraine Crisis Is the West’s Fault
The Liberal Delusions That Provoked Putin
“You made me do it.” – like a child.
Nato and sovereign states can do whatever they want on their own soil and it is absolutly no justification for a war of aggression, neither are Putins dreamed up “security concerns”.
Your IGNORANCE of the situation is yet again highlighted by your comment.
Remember the frauds of 2020?
Six states just stopped counting, until they had gathered enough ballots from wherever, so they could be counted, with windows boarded up, into the total, 3 to 6 days AFTER the closing of the polls, a USA historic first, to demonstrate its version of free, open, and fair.
The US people were SOOO screwed, plus they got open borders as a big present, from the senile BIG GUY, and he got his 10%, and gets away with it..
“Six states just stopped counting, until they had gathered enough ballots from wherever, so they could be counted, with windows boarded up, into the total, 3 to 6 days AFTER the closing of the polls, a USA historic first, to demonstrate its version of free, open, and fair.”
Utter bullshit. You got any proof for this made up nonsense?
Russia should be more sophisticated and use lawfare and election fraud like the Dumbocraps and Bribe’em Maladminstration does.
Putin has a 75% to 80% approval rating despite the debacle in Ukraine.
Hitler had an 89% approval rating.
He got Germany out of the Depression, but then lost his mind
The point is that if you have a high approval rating you do not need fraud. lawfare or killing opponents to win an election
Name two top Putin opponents still alive.
Exactly… and you only have to see who Russia’s allies are to know what path the country is on and the company Putin likes to keep… Iran, North Korea.
75-80% of Russians who have no access to facts.
And faced with countless legal actions since the “Russian Collusion” meme and the Steele Dossier bought and paid for by the DNC/Hillary was shown to be totally bogus.
(Did you know that around that time Bill Clinton was paid $1,000,000 (or was it only $500,000?) to give a one hour speech in Moscow?
“(Did you know that around that time Bill Clinton was paid $1,000,000 (or was it only $500,000?) to give a one hour speech in Moscow?”
What was he speaking on?”
I doubt that is true, but even if it is… what was the speech about. And surely he can’t have said anything near as bad as the traitor Tucker Carlson who went on a jaunt to promote and suck up to Putin… who at the same time was having a political opponent murdered
Tucker fears Putin and this clouds Tucker’s judgement.
Appeasers fear bullies and are always looking for ways to appease the bully, or they pretend he is not a bully and is just a regular guy. I think this describes Tucker.
“Tucker fears Putin and this clouds Tucker’s judgement.”
Maybe you are right, but he did not do his country any favours by doing the propaganda tour he did. What was he thinking endorsing a murderous dictator like that? It wasn’t so long ago republicans like Regan called out tyrants like Putin. What has changed?
Tucker has an appeaser mentality. Ronald Reagan was just the opposite of an appeaser, he was a confronter.
Unfortunately, Tucker’s take on reality is infecting other Republicans who are starting to think it is a good idea to let Ukraine deal with Putin on their own.
They never think about what will happen after Putin takes over Ukraine. They hope he will stop his aggression, but does any reasonable person think that will be the case?
And when Putin attacks a NATO nation, will the Republicans say it’s not their fight? When will it be the Repubicans fight? When Putin comes here?
Appeasers are in such a panic that they don’t think about the future.
The bottom line is: You can’t run away from international bullies. If you try, they will just follow you home. And then where are you going to run?
The only way to deal with international bullies is to confront them. In Ukraine, the U.S. can confront them without putting American troops into the conflict. The Ukrainians are perfectly happy to defend themselves and Democracy on their own if given the equipment and ammunition they need. Even appeasers ought to go along with this. But they don’t because they don’t see the Big Picture.
Appeasement has consequences. Our current world situation is a perfect example of a weak American president encouraging international bullies with his fear of confrontation, which is plain to see for every dictator on Earth.
Bullies like it when you are afraid of them. They like getting their way. They like it when a stupid American president makes it easy for them.
“They never think about what will happen after Putin takes over Ukraine. They hope he will stop his aggression, but does any reasonable person think that will be the case?”
100% right. I sometimes wonder what is with all the support for Putin here.
“Bullies like it when you are afraid of them. They like getting their way. They like it when a stupid American president makes it easy for them.”
Again 100% agree I just have a different opinion on which recent president was a bully.
I think Bill Clinton got $500,000 for that particular speech, which I understand was about five times the normal rate.
I think Hillary helping Russia gain control of a large portion of U.S.uranium was probably why Bill got the Big Bucks.
Far as I can tell, you win all the shame elections.
So you think Putin is a good guy too huh?
I’ve never said anything about putin. You’re OBSESSED and looking to argue, but all you do is confess your idiotic biases.
Good luck.
We are talking about Putin… Keep up. If you have nothing to contribute don’t bother responding. It’s called a blog, it’s where people share ideas…. and hello…. sometimes you wont agree.
Ok retard.
Brilliant comeback. Now be honest… did you think of that all by yourself?
They are designed to last at least 60 years,
There probably isn’t any designed longevity. Complex industrial installations, power plants, refineries, factories etc. need to be maintained on a regular basis, parts are replaced according to their particular lifetime, some don’t last as long as others but the totality is most affected by changes in technology and economic factors, not elapsed time.
Yes, I used to design such power plants, including enough redundancy to ensure running 24/7/365, with a shutdown of 5 weeks every 2 to 4 years for refueling
Are you a Ruskiy Bot?
I finally pruned my roses–a month late–better late than never.
Blinking Nino
There has been a slow but steady change in the management of public administration over the decades, particularly since governments have increasingly penetrated into the private enterprise field.
The change is about the loss of logical thinking. When a community problem arises, there is now prompt movement away from the primary issue, taking emphasis off the primary issue and creating any number of secondary and tertiary issues, which demand more people be employed on the public purse and more avenues for money to flow to onlookers intent on harvesting other peoples’ monies.
A ready example is about electricity, which I will simplify (and probably reveal some errors from my simplicity).
The primary problem is that communities need more electricity. There are steadily more and more people to service, with more electrical appliances each. The solution to the primary problem is to build more electricity generators. One hardly hears of this primary need in discussion, which has now become mostly about secondary issues like what form of electricity generation to use, then into tertiary issues like governments dictating use of some methods and/or issuing incentives and cash to promote their preferences, or else.
Another example comes from electric cars, The primary issue is that people need cars for customary modern living. The solution is to build more cars as the population grows. The secondary issues, that now dominate discussion, include rules preferring certain types of cars, along with subsidies, incentives and warnings not to buy some types, or else.
I have no answer to this problem, except to mention it to interested others and to hope for some feedback to build the theme into something readable that will benefit others.
Geoff S
Apologies, I forgot to add that this movement is commensurate with too many lawyers being involved, possibly trying to do work that should be done by scientists with records of success. (Not you, Rud Istvan, you are more than a lawyer.) Geoff S
Winter will return to the eastern US.
https://earth.nullschool.net/#2024/03/18/1200Z/wind/isobaric/500hPa/orthographic=-90.02,35.72,264
Yes, the polar jetstream is dipping into the Northeast U.S. bringing colder air with it.
And the subtropical jet stream is angling in from the Southwest.
Where the two jet streams converge is where the most extreme weather will appear, which, at this time, looks like the area of the Southeast U.S.
Here is the temperature view:
https://earth.nullschool.net/#2024/03/18/1200Z/wind/isobaric/500hPa/overlay=temp/orthographic=-90.02,35.72,264
I recently had a conversation with a relative. The subject turned to global warming.
I mentioned that it’s rather ironic to discuss global warming when the earth is in an Ice Age. (google it, yes the earth is in an ice age). My relative didn’t believe me.
I also mentioned that the earth is greener now than 50 years ago. Again, my relative didn’t believe me. I sent a NASA link that showed the earth is greener now than 20 years ago. I couldn’t find the NASA page where it went back 50 years and showed the greening of the earth.
I think that getting those two facts more visibility would further weaken support for this CAGW silliness.