Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach
Yesterday, Anthony Watts posted a most interesting discussion of the Hunga-Tonga volcano, entitled “Record Global Temperatures Driven by Hunga-Tonga Volcanic Water Vapor – Visualized“. I found some curiosities worth discussing in the post.
First was the delay between “cause” and “effect”. Here’s Ryan Maue’s graph showing the conundrum:

Figure 1. Output of a climate reanalysis model of the 2-meter surface temperature. This shows a big jump in mid-March.
Now, the Hunga-Tonga volcano erupted on 14 January 2022. My questions are … why is there a ~ 14-month delay before the mid-March 2023 temperature jump shown in the red square in Figure 1?
And why does the eruption have no visible immediate effects?
I mean, we’re talking about changes in radiation due to water vapor, and they are instantaneous—as soon as the water vapor concentration changes, the radiation changes.
And why is there nearly as much warming from November 2022 to the mid-March date of the purported “jump” as there is after the date of the “jump”?
Some folks have said that it’s because it takes time for the water vapor to spread around the stratosphere. In his post, Anthony quoted from a study entitled “Global perturbation of stratospheric water and aerosol burden by Hunga eruption” regarding the huge quantity of water vapor injected into the stratosphere. But here’s another quote from that same paper:
Owing to the extreme injection altitude, the volcanic plume has circumnavigated the Earth in only one week and dispersed nearly pole-to-pole in three months.
So we should have seen some kind of change within a few months of the eruption … but there’s no sign of that in the data above.
Now, Ryan Maue’s graph doesn’t show observed temperatures. Instead, it’s the output of a climate “reanalysis” model. So I thought that in addition, I’d look at, you know … actual observations. I was going to start with the Berkeley Earth temperatures. But they only extend to March 2023, so they wouldn’t show the purported jump in temperatures.
So instead, I looked at the UAH MSU satellite atmospheric temperatures. Let me start with the temperature of the lower stratosphere because it’s there that the water vapor was injected, so it’s there that we should see the main effect.

Figure 2. UAH MSU lower stratosphere temperatures.
You can see the effect on the stratosphere of the large eruptions of the late 20th century, Pinatubo and El Chichon. The temperature peak just before the Hunga-Tonga eruption is likely a combination of the White Island and Taal eruptions in December 2019 and January 2020.
But there’s no sign at all of the Hunga-Tonga eruption. Nor is there any sign of the purported jump in temperatures in mid-March 2023.
Moving down in altitude, here’s the temperature of the tropopause, which is the altitude where the stratosphere meets the troposphere.

Figure 3. UAH MSU tropopause temperatures.
The signals of the earlier eruptions are less distinct at this lower altitude … and again, no sign of any effect from Hunga-Tonga.
Moving lower still, here’re the mid-troposphere temperatures.

Figure 4. UAH MSU middle troposphere temperatures.
The signs of the big eruptions are pretty much lost in the noise … and still no sign of Hunga-Tonga.
Finally, here are the UAH MSU lower troposphere temperatures:

Figure 5. UAH MSU lower troposphere temperatures.
Same story. No sign of any effect of Hunga-Tonga.
So I figured I might be looking in the wrong place. Where would we expect to see the changes from a volcano in Tonga?
Well, in Tonga, maybe? … unfortunately, there’s no daily temperature data from Tonga. However, here’s data from some of the nearby islands.

We’ll start with Fiji, a lovely place where I lived for nine years. Hey, those waves aren’t gonna surf themselves …

No immediate effect from the eruption, nor is there any sign of the purported jump in temperatures in mid-March. Next, here’s Tahiti:

Again, no sign of the eruption, nor of any sudden jump. It rose after the “jump” date, but it rose before that date by about the same amount.
Next, Pago Pago in American Samoa.

Looks like Tahiti, a whole lot of nothing going on. Next, here’s Auckland in New Zealand.

No immediate reaction to the eruption. And if Hunga-Tonga caused the warming in 2023 … did it also cause the preceding cooling starting at the end of 2022?
Moving on, here’s Honiara, my old hometown in the wonderful Solomon Islands where I lived for eight years.

Same lotta nothing going on there, temperatures rising both before and after the mid-March “jump” … finally, here’s Lord Howe Island off of the east coast of Australia.

A year of cooling after Hunga-Tonga, then warming … say what?
Next, to look at a larger area, here’s the North Atlantic Oscillation over the same period.

Still not seeing it. There is a rise starting around mid-March, but it’s indistinguishable from the previous rise and is much smaller than the rise pre-Hunga-Tonga.
Finally, here’s a different computer reanalysis model of the global temperature. To give a better view of the overall situation, I started the data in 2016 rather than 2022 as in Ryan Maue’s graphic above.

As with Ryan Maue’s graph, there’s warming both before and after the “jump”. However, it’s much smaller in total than the warming just before the eruption.
To close out, here are three different looks at the same post-2016 time span—ERA5, HadCRUT, and UAH MSU results.

Sorry, but I’m still not seeing any effect from the Hunga-Tonga eruption, nor any big jump in temperatures in mid-March 2023.
What do I conclude from this?
My guess, and it’s nothing but a guess, is as follows:
None of the above graphs, including Ryan Maue’s, show any immediate effects from the eruption. I suggest this is because estimates of the global effect of the injected water focus almost exclusively on the warming effects of the increase in downwelling longwave radiation from increased stratospheric water vapor.
But they seem to disregard the cooling effects of the decrease in downwelling shortwave (sunshine). This is likely to be significant, since stratospheric water is going to contain a lot of ice, and ice is a good reflector of sunlight.
In addition to reflecting sunlight, a second large issue is that water vapor, ice, and water droplets all absorb sunlight, which also cools the earth by reducing downwelling shortwave at the surface.
Also, I’m just not buying that an injection of water into the stratosphere that has “circumnavigated the Earth in only one week and dispersed nearly pole-to-pole in three months” would a) have zero immediate cooling or warming effects, zero six-month effects, and zero one-year effects … but b) would still cause an upwards step-change in temperature fourteen months later. I may be missing something, but I see no feasible physical process that would cause that.
w.
PS—As folks who regularly read WUWT likely know, I’m happy to defend my own words and I’m willing to admit when they’re wrong. I cannot do the same for your interpretation of my words. So when commenting, please QUOTE THE EXACT WORDS you’re discussing. Saves lots of problems.
PPS—For those who enjoy such things, here’s my story of one of my adventures in Tonga, entitled “Old Bill Rises From The Dead“.
Antarctic sea ice set a record low last summer, and is on it’s way to setting a new one.
And there is a jump in South Atlantic Sea Surface, I think there will be some trouble untangling the rebounding from the effects of a prior eruption as well as the Australian brush fires.
Story tip: solar gamma ray record unsettles science
https://www.space.com/sun-blasts-highest-energy-radiation-ever-recorded-raising-questions-solar-physics
Ah, gamma rays. The latest excuse for the obvious warming formulates.
What are you gibbering about now Rusty? Who said anything about gamma rays relating to warming?
It’s pretty clear that FN hasn’t got the vaguest clue what he is talking about.. ever. !
This event was on October 8th or 9th, 2022.
At least that seems to be the case.
Willis,
If much of the reported warming from GHGs is appearing more as milder nights. Is there an effect from the water vapor release that enhances nighttime temperatures?
Perhaps as you hypothesized, incoming solar is reflected by ice crystals, but the latent heat from the day is reflected back to the surface overnight.
The reflection of thermal radiation emitted from a warm ocean open-water surface back to the adjacent land surface by cirrus clouds is one explanation for the fast change from surface nighttime frost to sudden thaw observed and reported in WUWT comments for coastal localities in winter (e.g. Florida).
IIRC, there was a WUWT article on the fact that SW overwhelms LW in its impacts on temperatures. But what do I know?
Could it be that there is a natural self-regulation of which we know nothing? And that the AGW hypothesis is wrong?
Is been suggested that the”nuclear winter” hypothesis was undone when observations showed that the smoke from the fires of Kuwait rained out in a couple of weeks.
“It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.”
Temperature rises with height in the stratosphere. Its upper levels can reach above the sea level freezing point.
And ice is also an excellent emitter of thermal radiation. This is because being a solid substance ice is able to transmit shear waves within the body of the crystal. It is surface shear wave flexure of the solid crystal that provides the coupling link between particle motion and the emission of electromagnetic waves.
Optical properties of ice and snow
Just seems that “Climate Science” requires a whole lot of SWAG followed by a deafening silence where there should be, at the very least, a carefully staged Friday afternoon “Never Mind”
SWAG at its very core appears to be the difference between Science and “The Science.” and triggers a whole lot of Media hyperventilation to scare the school kids. Amirite Greta?
It seems an interesting coincidence that in the lower stratosphere chart the el Chichon and Pinatubo eruptions occurred on an already increasing slope.
Is it (temp) inductive delay, or (eruption) capacitive breakdown?
Mmmm…’lectrix…
Those eruptions aren’t comparable to Tonga. They were land eruptions ejecting much solid material and SO2. Tonga was submarine, ejecting mostly water.
Not just ordinary water, but seawater. This blindingly obvious fact is being ignored. Sheesh.
Yes, the dissolved salts feature in the hypothesis.
One comment I read that may reflect on this is the scrubbing of SO2.
I saw a study recently from the University of Hawaii on past eruptions of Kama’ehuakanaloa, an underwater volcano that seems to have erupted at least 5 times in the last 150 years.
https://www.hawaii.edu/news/2023/08/06/kamaehuakanaloa-eruption/
Obviously not the size of Hunga Tonga but are we overstating the effects of underwater eruptions if they are more common than we thought?
Thanks to Willis for articulating a thought that had started to germinate in my mind – why the delay?
Another thought that’s struggling to take shape in my still covid-addled brain (3½ years and counting, can’t taste or smell anything either). I’m sure that I’ve read somewhere (authored by someone who knows more about radiative heat transfer than me) that increased CO2 in the stratosphere leads to more heat being radiated to space.
So stratospheric CO2 causes global cooling, but stratospheric H2O vapour causes global warming? Hmm… It sounds a bit contrived, don’t you think?
Zinc Deficiency
Yes same problem here was one of the first to have covid- tried all supplements, so far no success. Eruption- maybe the atmosphere just has more buffering capability than we think.
RIP Hunga-Tonga theory.
well the AGW crowd depends on it being true … so once again an “experiment” disproves the “theory” …
Thanks again Wills for your plausible alternative attributions of weather / climate causes & effects.
The more of these situations that get aired, the more I’m convinced that “climate science” is largely based on notions, projections and conjectures rather than precisely measured & recorded weather effects.
A large part of the murky factoids advanced about weather / climate effects is that the “measurements” being relied upon are just not fit for purpose.
Largely based on mathematics.
“Also, I’m just not buying that an injection of water into the stratosphere that has “circumnavigated the Earth in only one week and dispersed nearly pole-to-pole in three months” would a) have zero immediate cooling or warming effects, zero six-month effects, and zero one-year effects … but b) would still cause an upwards step-change in temperature fourteen months later. I may be missing something, but I see no feasible physical process that would cause that.”
agree with the rest (clouds have short lifecycles), but this falls under the old economics rule “never reason from a price change”
just too many confounding factors to say anything at this scale
Willis thanks for that fascinating analysis, ’tis a mystery indeed. This paper might be able to offer some help insight.
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2022GL099381
Thanks, Anthony. The study you refer to is good. However, it says:
and
Call me crazy, but when a scientific study says something COULD happen, my BS detector starts going off.
More to the point, if that’s the case, we should have seen evidence of it in the months immediately following the eruption … but there’s no evidence of that.
My best to you, and thanks for this marvelous website.
w.
“says something COULD happen”
and gives no quantification
Hhhhhmmm.
So 0 – 99.9% chance of something happening = “could” happen.
While 100% chance of something happening = “will” happen.
So does that mean that the uncertainty factor applicable to “could happen” should be reported as 0 – 99.9%?
(in which case, why bother raising the proposition at all?)
The issue is quantifying the something, not the probability (which is another issue).
Like everything you post, nick.
I think we all need to remember what journal publication peer-review is really all about.
It is not saying the paper is “correct”…
… but that the reviewers deem it ok to submit into the scientific discussion.
So yes, a lot of it will turn out to be BS.
But there is nothing inherently wrong with using the word “could” if you are just submitting an idea for discussion.
It is also why the “climate gatekeepers” have done such a great dis-service to science by blocking alternate views from publication… stifling scientific discussion.
It is why sites like WUWT are so valuable.
Hi Willis, in the study in question there is a quantitiy mentioned, as they state: “Preliminary climate model simulations (see Supporting Information S1 for details) suggest an effective radiative forcing (e.g., Forster et al., 2001; Myhre et al., 2013; Smith et al., 2020; Wang et al., 2017) at the tropopause of +0.15 Wm−2 due to the stratospheric H2O enhancement (Figure S3b in Supporting Information S1). For comparison, the radiative forcing increase due to the CO2 growth from 1996 to 2005 was about +0.26 Wm−2…”
An estimated forcing of 0.15 W/m² gives (with the TCR of 1.5K/2*CO2 and 3.8 W/m² for this temperature increase) a Delta GMST of 0.06 K. This is lost in the noise, so it makes no wonder that you could not find it in the weather related wobbles.
best Frank
Thanks, Frank, I hadn’t caught that detail. But that’s been my argument all along, that the change was so small as to be lost in the noise.
Folks forget that downwelling radiation at the surface (LW + SW) is about half a kilowatt per square meter. Thus, a forcing change of +0.15 W/m2 is a change of about three-hundredths of one measly percent (0.03%) … like I said, lost in the noise.
w.
Hi Willis, yes indeed no dissent. All calculations up to now may result in “Lost in noise”, at least on short timescales of 1…2 years.
best Frank
The estimated forcing is of course a GCM calculation. But they went about it in odd ways. First they use the community model CESM V 1.2.1, which is a 2013 version. They did just two 10 year runs, one control and one with the Hunga addition, using the Feb 2022 distribution and assuming it did not change during the 9 years. The 10 years included just one year spin up (normally decades are used). Then they attributed all the difference between the runs to Hunga.
Hi Nick, thanks for the critical assessment of the ERF-value in this paper. Do you have a different proposal? The estimated forcing is IMO the clue to estimate the actual impact on the global GMST development and the bandwith could be huge…
Well, here is a paper by Zhang et al (2023) and another by Zhu et al. Both said that while the water would have some warming effect, the normal cooling effect of aerosols would outweigh that.
And yes, just one other whopping criticism of the paper you cite. AFAICS, it perturbed water vapor only, ie kept aerosols constant in the comparison.
Thanks Nick for the additional refs. IMO in the end is the summary: dependend on the considered sources the eruption generated a forcing leading to a dGMST in a very tiny scale of a few 1/100 K+- which is lost in the noise.This is bolstered by the observations, described in the post by Willis. The rumble about this issue is more or less a tempest in a teapot. You agree?
This is a poor man’s version of asking what would happen if we doubled CO2 in the atmosphere immediately.
So what can we learn from this?
Perhaps we learn that feedbacks keep the temperature stable rather than ratcheting up the impact as happens in the GCMs.
WE, well done.
If your stratospheric ice opacity increase theory is correct, then we should see it both at TOA SWR outbound and reduced surface insolation. Checked with NASA for the before/after months 12/20 and 2/21. Nothing noticable in either.
Main SWR outbound is albedo. Troposphere overwhelms stratosphere.
Main insolation is a gain albedo, and again troposphere overwhelms stratosphere.
The delay between HunkaTonga eruption and hot Mid 2023 is perhaps best explained by plain old natural variation.
Thanks, Rud. How was it you “Checked with NASA for the before/after months 12/20 and 2/21”? A link would be much appreciated.
Best to you and yours,
w.
My bad.
Insolation: nasa.gov/solar insolation (month option)
SWR outbound: ceres.larc.nasa.gov
Thanks, Rud. nasa.gov/solar goes to 404 …
w.
duck duck go -> https://neo.gsfc.nasa.gov/view.php?datasetId=CERES_INSOL_M
Thanks,
w.
Aside from all of the graphs and analysis presented by Willis, I would just note that the presumed mechanism of a volcanic eruption sending vast plumes of water vapor into the stratosphere thus causing a major change in global temperatures simply does not jive with what is known of the water vapor content in the stratosphere vs. that of the troposphere, and the known physical chemistry of how water vapor performs in earth’s atmosphere.
First of all, with or without volcanos, 99% of all the water vapor in Earth’s atmosphere is contained within the troposphere. That makes perfect sense because the bottom of the stratosphere starts at around 33 thousand feet above mean sea level. At that altitude all water vapor freezes, liquid water cannot exist (typical temperature under standard conditions, 59 deg F at sea level, at 33 thousand ft is minus 58 deg F – even if sea level temperature were far above standard, say at 90 deg F, at 33 thousand feet the temperature would be but minus 28 deg F)
What happens is the standard lapse rate of 4.6 deg F per 1,000 ft causes rising water vapor to chill until it condenses and falls back to the surface as rain or snow. So not only is the stratosphere extremely cold, it is also extremely dry because as water vapor-laden air rises it loses most of its moisture.
Ice at 30 deg-F has a (water) vapor pressure of 0.081 psia, not zero.
Ice at minus 58 deg-F still has a (water) vapor pressure of 0.0006 psia, not zero.
I never wrote that there is zero water vapor in the stratosphere – indeed I wrote that 99% of all water vapor in the atmosphere is contained within the troposphere, below 33 thousand ft MSL.
The reason there is so little water vapor up high is exactly what I wrote, so there is no possibility that the miniscule amount of water vapor injected into the stratosphere by any volcanic eruption could have any more than an undetectable effect on atmospheric temperatures.
What DOES have an effect on atmospheric temperatures is dust and aerosols injected high into the stratosphere by volcanic eruptions … but not water vapor.
Sorry, I interpreted your use of the word “all” to mean 100%.
Willis:
Always glad to see you do these deep dives into actual data.
The problem I saw with the Hunga theory was just the smallness of the gas intrusion in the scheme of things. It was about 150 Mtons of water vapor. That made a difference in the stratosphere, which is normally very dry. But to leave the Earth, IR has to first get through the troposphere, which is a much greater barrier. We emit 38000 Mtons CO2 a year, so by mass, Hunga would be about 2 days emisions. Now you might say that water vapor in the stratosphere is more effective than CO2 in the troposphere, but you’d need a couple of orders of magnitude amplification to make a difference.
And some might say that wv is effective in different wave bands. But the IR has to get through the 1250000 Mtons of wv in the troposphere before it encounters the 200 Mtons added to the stratosphere.
The straight mass for mass comparison is not perfect, because the main warming effect of WV in the stratosphere is not from the gas phase, but from the cirrus clouds. But even that is not large.
Incidentally, here is a plot of various temperature indices, put on a common 1981-2010 base. There was an uptick in March, and some recent warming, but that is still quite a delay.
July surface results are out here. It was up from June, which was already a record warm June. And it was not only the warmest July, but 0.225C warmer than the next July (2019). The average to date is warmer than 2016 or 2020, but they had their warm spell early in the year. So looks like whole year 2023 will end up quite a bit warmer.
Yet another new warmest year in the surface data then. They’re coming thick and fast.
We are warming (slightly and gradually) out of the LIA. Also, similar localized spikes of heat have happened many times in the past. Your statement therefore, has no meaning. Sorry. 🙂
The global rate of warming, as measured by record years, is certainly accelerating. And 2023 will give it a boost
But the rate of warming as measured by global average isn’t.
You can see very clearly from UAH data, that 1987- 1997 it was basically zero trend.
Same from 2001-2014
then again since the last El Nino
There is no “accelerated” warming.. period.
It is purely a facet of agenda-manipulated, really badly tainted surface data.
Massaged raw data. Look at the individual anomoly ranges.
That is based on surface data fabrication, isn’t it.
So you KNOW it is totally unusable for what you are trying to do.
But you do it anyway.
It is based on surface thermometer measurements
“ surface thermometer measurements”
Thanks for confirming it is totally unfit for comparison of temperature over time.
And yet, we’re still talking about fractions of a degree Celsius and no impact on the Earth or humans that could remotely be considered catastrophic or even dangerous. We’re a long, long way from dangerously warm, dangerously rapid sea level rise, or dangerously high CO2 concentrations, according to what we know from paleoclimate proxy data and the proliferation of animal life in past epochs.
The last one was in 2016, thanks to El Niño, as was the previous one 1998.
“Surface data” are made up and “adjusted” unwarrantedly.
Ain’t it grand, Rusty? So much flourishing!
“”They’re coming thick and fast.””
In the surface bad data, of course they are.
Or are you still in total DENIAL of the total unsuitability of surface stations for comparison of temperatures over time?
In DENIAL of urban heating effects.
In DENIAL that jet engines are hot.
In DENIAL that brick walls get hot in summer.
In DENIAL that air-con output is very warm in summer.
In DENIAL of the loss of colder surface sites.
IN DENIAL of the warming adjustments.
All of these things you are in denial of are obvious and provable…
.. yet still you “believe” in some other fantasy that you can’t prove.
The US National Climate Reference data shows no unusual change through July 2023. See Watts’ article https://wattsupwiththat.com/2023/08/08/noaa-u-s-average-temperature-anomaly-data-through-july-2023-wheres-the-crisis/
The US National Climate Reference data thru July 2023:
?ssl=1
In the original post entitled “Record Global Temperatures Driven by Hunga-Tonga Volcanic Water Vapor – Visualized“, chart “A MLSv5 Global stratospheric water vapor mass” shows between 100 and 150 Tg H2O entering the atmosphere in January 2022. The chart unfortunately ends around July 2022 leaving me to wonder if the H2O is still in the atmosphere or perhaps formed the March 2023 atmosphere rivers that deposited much of their H2O on California. Unless I missed it the original article does not tell us where the H2O is in July 2023.
The Hunga Tonga H2O injection is still in the stratosphere. You can view the MLS Aura data at the following link. Notice that the H2O is still running 1+ ppm higher in the upper stratosphere even through July 2023. It is expected remain there for several more years before depleting out.
https://acd-ext.gsfc.nasa.gov/Data_services/met/qbo/qbo.html
Thank you for the information.
just like CO2 the myth of well mixed gasses in our atmosphere are just that … a myth … all the models depend on this myth being true .. all the models are wrong …
CO2 is pretty well mixed. It deviates by no more than a few ppm horizontally, vertically, and seasonally.
Maybe not. CO2 concs at surface are
highly variable.
https://notrickszone.com/2023/03/30/real-world-observation-increasing-co2-by-7000-ppm-has-a-0-3c-temperature-differential/
More Data.
https://meteo.lcd.lu/today_01.html
And the IR effect likely spread as convection and thermalisation dominates at near surface height.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RbNNhLqhWPg
No. We’re also talking about dynamic changes in stratospheric circulation, and the stratosphere is a place where things happen very slowly when tropospheric circulation is involved.
Ask yourself why the effects of the Mt. Tambora eruption, which happened in April 1815, were felt starting in June 1816, producing the Year Without a Summer in 1816.
Javier Vinós August 7, 2023 1:40 pm
Thanks, Javier. First, what does “tropospheric circulation” have to do with it?
Second, no, it didn’t “happen very slowly”. It happened very quickly. As I quoted in the head post:
Finally, you say:
Actually, I’ve been unable to find any actual evidence to back up the claim that there was a “missing summer”. See my posts “Volcanic Disruptions“, “Missing The Missing Summer“, and “Stacked Volcanoes Falsify Models“. Read all three end to end, and if you disagree, quote what you think is wrong and demonstrate why it’s wrong.
In the meanwhile, here’s one of the graphics from one of those posts, showing stacked temperature records from six major volcanoes.
ORIGINAL CAPTION: Stacked records of the six major volcanoes. Individual records show from three years before to five years after each eruption. The anomalies are expressed as variations around the temperature of the month of the eruption. The black heavy line shows the average of the data. Black vertical lines show the standard error of the average.
On average they may (or may not) cause a tenth of a degree cooling immediately after the eruption..
In short, I find very little evidence that eruptions do much at all to the global temperature.
Regards,
w.
Submarine eruptions differ in their effects from subaerial volcanic events.
The Tonga blast sent lots of water but little SO2 and virtually no particulates into the stratosphere.
What is the difference between water and seawater? Hmmm, that’s a toughie.
Let’s face reality, various volcanic eruption have only been SURMISED to affect the weather for some time after the eruption. Pinatubo seemed to result in an SO2 cooling effect. Others may be just random temp fluctuations.
Whole classes of METEO students can’t pick the years in the temp record when volcanic eruptions occurred unless the eruptions are marked on the timeline. This implies to me that the effect is mostly of the placebo variety.
Again we run into Hunga- Tunga that doesn’t follow the supposition, so water vapor is suddenly chosen as the reason.
Take the red line and the eruption dates off this graph and think when you would guess eruptions occurred. Not so obvious.
It’s a typo. I meant stratospheric circulation.
Well, then, you haven’t done a very good job looking for the evidence.
Brohan et al. 2012:
Brohan, P., Allan, R., Freeman, E., Wheeler, D., Wilkinson, C. and Williamson, F., 2012. Constraining the temperature history of the past millennium using early instrumental observations. Climate of the Past, 8(5), pp.1551-1563.
They reconstruct observations from the English East India Company ship logs and compare them with 11 different proxy reconstructions. You can see it in the bottom panel of their figure 9:
https://cp.copernicus.org/articles/8/1551/2012/cp-8-1551-2012.pdf
Brönnimann and Krämer 2016
Brönnimann, S. and Krämer, D., 2016. Tambora and the” Year Without a Summer” of 1816. A perspective on earth and human systems science (Vol. 90). Geographica Bernensia.
This is a fantastic article on many aspects of the Tambora eruption and its climate effects. Their figure 11 shows the temperature records for Geneva, Paris and Boston.
https://boris.unibe.ch/81880/1/tambora_e_A4l.pdf
Thanks, Javier. Per your first link:
So a cooling of “perhaps” half a degree C shows there was a year without a summer?
Say what?
And while I had great hopes for the second link, there’s no information on where they got the temperatures for Geneva, Paris, and Boston.
In my post I showed that in Stockholm, Bologna, Milan, Praha-Klementium, Hohenpeissenberg, Armagh, Manchester, New Haven, and other places, there’s no sign of the Tambora eruption. Some places were hit, some were not.
Regards,
w.
The effect of the 1815 Mt. Tambora eruption on the 1816 Northern Hemisphere climate.
Black is observations, and 11 proxy reconstructions.
Which observations, from where? Also, “observations” (whatever they are) show a whacking great drop of 0.4°C … be still my beating heart.
w.
Read the provided references. They contradict what you say.
Could you possibly be more vague?
QUOTE what I said that you think is wrong, I have no idea what you mean by “what I say”. What I say where and when?
And once you QUOTE it, then cite the exact reference and page that contradicts whatever you are referring to.
I’m not going to do your homework for you, and I don’t go on a snipe hunt for any man.
w.
Hi Willis,
Thank you so much for this article. I’m sure I’m just one of many WUWT readers who were vaguely bothered by the issues you articulated so clearly here.
Regarding the “year without a summer” –
It’s interesting that none of the global datasets you looked at contains an obvious signal of the 1816 “year without a summer” after the April 1815 Tambora eruption.
The arguments that I’ve seen for Tambora as cause of the very cold summer of 1816 focus on anomalous weather in parts of Canada, Europe, etc.
A classic of this genre is:
The Year without a Summer. Henry Stommel and Elizabeth Stommel. Scientific American
Vol. 240, No. 6 (June 1979), pp. 176-187. https://www.jstor.org/stable/24965226 [paywalled, accessible with institutional login]. The authors also published a book of similar name that is available used for a few bucks.
Henry Stommel was one of the founders of physical oceanography (PO) as a discipline, and for many years a scientist in the PO department at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution (where new grad students were advised to call him Mr Stommel, as there is no way to get a PhD in a field you haven’t invented yet).
Can Tambora have had dramatic impacts only in certain regions, without causing an obvious signal in global averages (as you found in the global records you looked at)?
I think the answer to this particular question is yes.
Selective media climate coverage of the most extreme local or regional conditions as evidence of “climate change” is just this idea in reverse – that local/regional conditions are reliable indicators of global conditions. But this is obviously wrong: Not all local and regional global conditions correlate with their global averages (!).
[The deeper problem, of course, is that the physics driving global-average climate variability (which we don’t understand all that well) and the physics driving regional-scale climate variability (which we understand even less well) are not the same thing. And in our highly nonlinear climate system, thinking about those two kinds of physics as separate, independent entities – while an unavoidable step in trying to understand the system – rests on simplifications that can’t be fully justified and whose implications can’t be fully understand.]
Where does that leave Tambora as a cause or contributor to the “year without a summer” that was observed in certain regions? Like a lot of things for which highly plausible arguments have been made – unproven, and hard to prove or disprove. But science is only rarely about “proof”. Usually scientific aspiration is limited to correcting and expanding the existing arguments.
Thanks again,
Momsahib
Momsahib, I’m looking further into the Tambora issue. As usual, nothing is simple. I’ll report results when I have them.
Best regards,
w.
PS—love your username …
That SciAm article has a photo of monument to the Year without a Summer. It’s engraved, appropriately enough, on a glacial erratic. My father and I were astounded that it was only some 10 miles from his house in Plymouth NH.
I finally hunted it down one day in May for creating a virtual Geocache. The next day morning rain changed to snow as I was cooking breakfast. Very, very freaky.
I wrote a web page that collected various NH stories about that summer, 3 or 4 people posted it to Willis’ first 1816 page, he blasted it for its lack of science (hey, I didn’t offer it, mainly because I didn’t have good temperature data, just snow and ice).
After Dad died and we prepared to sell the house, my sister saved his SciAms, about 1950s – 1990s, but we decided to toss them when she moved to California. We saved the Stommel article though!
The geocache, named Summerless, is at https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC7F33
Careful – there’s longterm friction between Willis and me about 1816 in New England, and maybe similar latitudes.
See https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/06/05/summer-of-1816-in-new-hampshire-a-tale-of-two-freezes/
While that article ignores Willis’ earlier references, he made no reference to New England so it didn’t belong in the article. We did discuss it in the comments.
Only close to the winter pole, as water requires very low temperatures to form ice in the stratosphere.
Huh? That’s not true at all. We see stratospheric ice clouds (SICs) in the tropics all the time. See e.g. Figure 8 here.
ORIGINAL CAPTION: Figure 8 Seasonal occurrence frequency of stratospheric aerosols from CALIPSO during 2007–2019. Black contours are the occurrence frequencies of SICs, as shown in Fig. 1a–d.
w.
Yes Willis, but as it says in that paper those clouds are within 250m of the tropopause which is the lower atmosphere temperature minimum. The main body of the stratosphere is warmer and the H2O vapor pressure is much lower so the temperature required to freeze the H2O vapor is much lower (less than -78ºC). See for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_stratospheric_cloud
Thanks, Phil. Yes, SICs mostly form in the lowest part of the stratosphere … so what? How does that change what I said?
Also from the link:
The lowest part of the stratosphere is still the stratosphere, no matter how much you want to minimize it.
Best regards,
w.
That’s semantics. Most ozone is in the mid-upper stratosphere and the destruction of ozone due to stratospheric polar clouds takes place during winter at high latitudes because that is when they form, particularly in the southern polar vortex which has lower temperatures. That is why the ozone hole is in the Southern Hemisphere.
That tropical tropopause ice is the result of the process of air freeze-drying that takes place at the tropical tropopause cold spot and is responsible for the extreme dryness of the stratosphere. Most water in the stratosphere comes from methane oxidation which takes place in the upper stratosphere, so water vapor becomes more abundant with altitude in the stratosphere.
There’s a lot you have to learn about the stratosphere before jumping to conclusions.
Not to take the urine…
https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2016/12/23/water-in-space-does-it-freeze-or-boil/
Some videos of rapid phase changes…
A popular phase diagram
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-evF6F_V36QM/VnlXsALcmsI/AAAAAAAAEsI/iDSYQgcfIKk/s1600/Phase_diagram_of_water.svg.png
This is a small issue. The stratosphere contains 1000 times less water than the troposphere, a 13% increase means little in terms of shortwave absorption for the surface.
If it “means little in terms of shortwave absorption for the surface”, it would also “mean little in terms of longwave absorption for the surface”.
Which is kinda my point …
w.
But the important question is what it means in terms of the top of the atmosphere energy imbalance and how that energy imbalance is distributed between the stratosphere, troposphere and surface. I don’t think anybody can answer that and even less you, who knows little about radiative physics and about stratosphere properties and dynamics.
Javier, if you had any real scientific ammunition, you wouldn’t be throwing mud at my abilities and knowledge.
w.
You are the one throwing mud at yourself with your post and comments. Reaching premature conclusions about things one doesn’t understand well does never look good. If the conclusions are opposite to the accumulated knowledge, then it looks even worse.
One week ago I commented..
“A heat wave coming 18 months after the eruption is a bit late. It should be an instant reaction and statistically there was none.”
It gave me 55 dislikes 😉
The actual story here is about something else. First of all there was significant cooling in the upper stratosphere. So yes, the WV has its effect.
Climate science however assumes that whatever way the stratosphere goes, temperature wise, the opposite would happen within the troposphere. I pointed out a while ago this assumption is baseless. The mechanism by which volcanic aerosols heat the stratosphere AND cool the troposphere is specific and has been misinterpreted. Most of all it can not simply be inverted in the case of stratospheric WV injection.
https://greenhousedefect.com/contrails/aerosols-in-climate-science
On top of that there are implications on CO2 related climate sensitivity. A good part of the CO2 forcing would be due to CO2 cooling the stratosphere. Again, this part is most certainly wrong. Rather, as far as CO2 cools the stratosphere, this will have no effect on tropospheric temperatures.
It is not inverted. The effect of changes in stratospheric water vapor on the global surface temperature is calculated using radiative models. Perhaps they are wrong or not. Hunga Tonga should help find out. Changes in the stratosphere are supposed to have a stronger effect.
In any case, a great part of the climatic effect of volcanic eruptions is not due to radiative effects but to chemical and dynamic effects. The dynamic effects are the ones responsible for the delayed effects, as the radiative effects are instantaneous and last only for as long as a great part of the aerosols remain in place.
It may have been more than 55 “-” that were offset by some “+”..
But any scientist knows that voting has nothing to do with science. So putting weight on voting as a test of validity is pointless. Your comment did not appeal to the masses in its context.
Willis has done a a lot of data analysis to arrive at a null result.
I looked at the moisture over Australia prior to the Tongan volcano eruption because the eruption was being blamed for flooding across eastern Australia. The atmospheric water over eastern Australia was already high on 10 Jan, 5 days before the eruption:
https://earth.nullschool.net/#2022/01/09/1800Z/wind/surface/level/overlay=total_precipitable_water/orthographic=-219.67,-26.28,372/loc=144.108,-23.534
The northern hemisphere daily peak solar intensity has been increasing for 500 years. It is beginning to have an observable impact particularly on maximum land temperature in the NH. Right now, the amount of atmospheric moisture over the northwestern Pacific is impressive. That will produce new snow records in coming months across northern Asia. May even set new record high January temperature for the Greenland plateau.
No, but it may have contributed. We are observing a very abnormal Antarctic sea ice this year, and this is the first winter when the stratospheric water vapor from Hunga Tonga has the opportunity to affect the Antarctic polar vortex in force. Stratospheric transport is very slow in the latitudinal and altitudinal directions. Very fast in the longitudinal direction due to the rotation of the planet. It takes several months for a parcel of air to rise 1 km in the stratosphere.
Javier Vinós August 7, 2023 1:57 pm
Javier, I’ve warned you before that you need to do your homework before making claims about something … because I’m damn sure to do my homework,
This is another example of why I’ve warned you. Here’s my homework.
w.
From the graph, it looks to me that it was recovering from the 2015/16 El Nino…
.. then got hit by the effect of the volcano.
Could it be that there a lot of energy released to the southern Pacific Ocean just before the main eruption, causing that drop in Antarctic sea ice just before the eruption,
It certain dropped quickly shortly afterwards.
Willis, What date is that red-dotted line, please?
In December 2021, an eruption began on Hunga Tonga–Hunga Haʻapai, a submarine volcano in the Tongan archipelago in the southern Pacific Ocean.[6]
The eruption reached a very large and powerful climax nearly four weeks later, on 15 January 2022.
I don’t like using Wiki, but the whole sequence seems to be described quite well here
2022 Hunga Tonga–Hunga Haʻapai eruption and tsunami – Wikipedia
There seems to have been considerable activity right through December 2021, spewing all sorts of “stuff” into the lower atmosphere.
The date of the red-dotted line is Jan 15, 2022. Before that, there was no injection of either SO2 or H2O into the stratosphere.
w.
Not as high into the stratosphere as the main eruption, and nowhere near as much.
Also, any idea what sort of effect the massive shockwave might have had on weather systems?
Keep your warnings. I do my research and my only claim in there is that this is the first Austral winter when the eruption has the opportunity to affect the Antarctic polar vortex in force. We might see that in the ozone hole that is forming right now. Last year the ozone hole was not affected.
Your plot does not say the eruption has not affected Antarctic sea ice levels, as Antarctic sea ice levels are unusually low. Your temporal demands about when the effects should take place are just your assumptions on when and how the effect should take place when you actually know very little about it. Taking unsupported assumptions is a big source of error in science.
Javier Vinós August 8, 2023 12:14 am
Antarctic sea ice has been dropping since 2015. It dropped precipitously the year before the HT eruption. Then in the year after the eruption, sea ice increased slightly.
You’re free to believe that that’s from the HT eruption. Me, not so much.
w.
I don’t believe anything, but an effect of the Hunga Tonga eruption on sea ice extent a year and a half later is a distinct possibility that science can investigate.
What that graph shows is that Antarctic sea ice has been incredibly stable since 1978 and last year it set a record low and this year, well there has never been anything observed like this.
It’s not like the 2 years prior to this event were normal.
Australia’s Black Summer bushfires linked to largest stratospheric warming in three decades (cosmosmagazine.com)
Willis,
You’re very good at analyzing CERES data. I’m curious what you’re thoughts are regarding the net TOA flux of +1.97 W/m2 over the last 12m?
Can you process the grids and show the spatial distribution the imbalance over the last 12m?
Like Nick pointed outed I’m just not seeing how Hunga Tonga could have significantly altered the Earth Energy Imbalance by more than may 0.2 W/m2 given that the UWIR must pass through 12,500,000 MtH2O before it encounters the extra 150 MtH2O that HT put up there.
Here is the modeled forcing from Hunga Tonga including its aerosols and water vapor through most of 2022. I suspect the aerosols have now mostly depleted with the purple line being close to +0.2 W/m2 here in mid 2023.
Then you should read:
Solomon, S., Rosenlof, K.H., Portmann, R.W., Daniel, J.S., Davis, S.M., Sanford, T.J. and Plattner, G.K., 2010. Contributions of stratospheric water vapor to decadal changes in the rate of global warming. Science, 327(5970), pp.1219-1223.
https://web-static-aws.seas.harvard.edu/climate/seminars/pdfs/solomon_rosenlof_2010.pdf
They claimed that a 10% decrease in H2Ov in the stratosphere slowed the rate of increase in global surface temperature over 2000–2009 by about 25%. They have been cited 1,230 times, and to my knowledge, nobody has shown them wrong.
A sudden 13% increase could do wonders with the surface temperature if they are right.
Yeah, so that 10% change in H2O resulted in 0.04 C less warming.
Javier, if you think that the number of citations means anything, consider that the hockeystick paper has been cited 2,653 times … more than twice as many as your link.
Next, here is what your cited paper says has been happening with the stratosphere water vapor.
Note that it dropped by 40% from 1998 to 2004 … please point out for us the corresponding change in surface temperatures.
Next, as bdgwx points out, the claimed reduction in warming is 0.004°C/year over the decade 2000-2009, for a total change of four-hundredths of one freakin’ degree. Be still, my beating heart.
Finally, since the water vapor bobs up and down, with a monthly average absolute change of 4.3%, it’s obvious that a 10% change will be lost in the noise.
w.
I thought you’d heard about the 1998-2014 pause in global warming. I’m not saying it was due to that, but it sure coincided.
Seriously? That’s your answer?
w.
Your demands that a change in stratospheric water vapor should have a coincident surface temperature effect or then it has no effect are yours alone. You have the same problem with the solar effect on climate.
It means the article has not been ignored by peers.
If you think an article “not being ignored by peers” means anything, you still haven’t learned the lesson of the hockeystick. Science isn’t decided by vote.
w.
What I think is irrelevant. This piece of research is widely known, and to my knowledge, it is generally accepted and not contradicted. That does not guarantee that it is correct, but what you think of it is also irrelevant.
I’m with Javier on this. The more times it is cited the more times it has been reviewed or replicated. The more times it has been reviewed or replicated the more confidence we have that it does not contain an egregious mistake or that the hypothesis within have cannot be falsified.
bdgwx, it seems that like Javier, you have failed to learn the lesson of the Hockeystick paper.
Among its problems were that it:
And despite that, it was cited 2,634 times, swallowed whole by the IPCC, and defended by a host of useful idiots … apparently including you and Javier.
Nor were Mann’s attempts to resuscitate it any better. Here’s my analysis of one of these attempts, entitled “Kill It With Fire“. Despite being told that the Tiljander series was used upside-down and was corrupted, despite being warned that the stripbark pines were totally unreliable, Mann used both of them again.
Why?
Because if you leave them out … no hockeystick …
You really need to take a hard look at the amount of garbage that’s passing peer-review these days. It’s shocking.
Best regards,
w.
I understand the stripbark pines and upside-down Tiljander sediment series were in different papers.
No, they were both used over and over again. See Steve McIntyre’s various posts on this question.
w.
Fair enough. I thought Yamal and Tiljander came into the picture after “the hockey stick paper” (MBH98)
What did you use to derive this graph Willis? It appears to be based on their Fig 1C but the anomalies there are given in ppm with a range of +/- 1.0ppmv. that implies that you took the average to be ~5ppmv, is that right?
Digitized their figure, took the average, used it to derive my figure.
w.
I’ve wondered why it took until this past May, June time frame for the effects of the Hunga volcanic eruption to show up in the temperatures. But a big temperature spike did show up, particularly above the Southern Ocean near Antartica. You can see that with the high anomaly of 1.43 in the UAH data for AUS.
You mentioned that the moisture spread across the globe pretty quickly but the highest concentrations are still in the southern hemisphere and it took almost 9 months for much higher than normal stratospheric water concentrations to travel to 60 south latitude. This paper from Nature shows the evolution of the stratospheric water vapor plume in the first 9 month or so.
Global perturbation of stratospheric water and aerosol burden by Hunga eruption | Communications Earth & Environment (nature.com) If you look at Figure 7 a), b), and c) you can see how the plume dispersed vertically and between the equator and 60 south latitude in the first 9 months.
It’s well known that arctic temperatures seem to rise much more in the colder months than the warm months due to green house gases and some have speculated that this may be due to water vapor. If the Hunga volcanic eruption had not gotten far enough south to effect long wave radiation in the oceans around Antartica until the April and June of 2023, then the 18 month delay would make sense.
Sean2828 August 7, 2023 2:12 pm
Thanks, Sean. I can’t find any such post-eruption “high anomaly” in either the Lower Troposphere or Lower Stratosphere UAH MSU “AUST” temperatures. There is a spike in the stratosphere temps, but it occurs in October 2021, three months before the eruption.
w.
One other thing worth mentioning is that scientists were predicting that the SH ozone hole would grow in size as a result of the eruption. [1] [2] [3] As many of you know O3 is a GHG and generally leads to warming when it increases in the troposphere. But, in the stratosphere it does more to block incoming shortwave radiation than outgoing longwave radiation. So a reduction in the stratosphere would enhance the Earth Energy Imbalance.
Anyway, observations are indeed showing an early onset of ozone hole growth.
There is no incoming shortwave radiation during winter over the polar regions. The size of the ozone hole has no bearing on this issue, and global stratospheric ozone levels don’t appear much affected at this time.
The size of the ozone hole definitely has a baring on the issue. The ozone hole typically peaks in October as the south pole begins ramping up in terms of solar insolation.
Viewing that chart with the one shown here, showing the Stratospheric WV apparently heading upwards into the ozone layer over time.
Very interesting.
Willis,
Thank you for a very nice, data-based analysis of this particular eruption and investigating what possibly may have caused a time-delay between cause and effect, IF there is really a delayed connection between the Hunga-Tonga volcano eruption and the global warming as indicated by Ryan Maue’s temperature anomaly graph presented at the top of your article.
Believe me when I say that I don’t have a horse in this race, but in the interest of stimulating further discussion, the following items come to mind.
1) Could the ~14 month delay between eruption and apparent temperature step-charge (commencing March 2023) reflect the fact that the water/water vapor injected into the upper troposphere/lower stratosphere immediately flash froze to microscopic ice crystals due to the low temperature and low pressure in the these regions? Because there is still some ambient pressure at these altitudes, the ice crystals would not sublimate as fast as ice does in hard vacuum when irradiated by sunlight. But could the bulk of such ice crystals persist for a year or more given diurnal cycling of sunlight? . . . I don’t know. Also, why wouldn’t the rate of sublimation be more-or-less constant, instead of having a step change? Could some “catalyst” be in play to cause such?
2) If the volcano’s “water injection” indeed became predominately ice crystals instead of low temperature, low pressure water vapor, given the range of altitudes and horizontal dispersions of such they may not have even appeared as visible “clouds”. Given that possibility, can we say the “immediate” effect of the volcano’s eruption would have been cooling, warming, or perhaps neutral?
3) It is interesting to compare, as you did, the temperature anomaly signatures (or lack thereof) of Hunga-Tonga to those of El Cichon and Pinatubo (your Figures 2–5). However, this is definitely an apple-to-oranges comparison since Hunga-Tonga had the top of its pre-eruption underwater caldera 150 m underwater whereas El Chicon and Pinatubo were volcanos erupting directly into air. I could not locate by Web search how deep the water may have been to the bottom inside the caldera pre-eruption, but I could easily believe as much as an additional 1000 m, since the caldera’s top—again pre-eruption—was 2000 m above the ocean floor and the calder itself was 4 km across (ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunga_Tonga ). Amongst many expected eruptions differences, I would think that perhaps Hunga-Tonga injected far less SO2 and smoke/dust particulates by dint of the “scrubbing action” that the mass of water being ejected simultaneously may have performed. However, and on the other hand, could the salt water being ejected have created many more cloud condensation nuclei?
4) It is reported that only 119 submarine volcanoes in Earth’s oceans and seas are known to have erupted during the last 11,700 years. I could not locate via Web search a listing as to which, if any, may have occurred in the last, say 100 years, which might enable an data-centric apples-to-apples comparison with Hunga-Tonga. Do you know of any?
5) FWIW, the above-cited Wikipedia reference states that Hunga-Tunga itself had historical eruptions that occurred in 1912, 1937, 1988, 2009, 2014–15 and 2021–22. Would you know if the data from any of the four more recent eruptions would be suitable for comparison to Jan 2022 eruption, or are they just too small?
My bottom line: I conclude that there is just too insufficient an amount of data and appropriate analyses of such to conclude whether or not a direct-but-delayed causal relationship between the Jan 2022 eruption of the submarine volcano Hunga-Tunga has led to the apparent since-March 2023 global heat anomaly (ref: Ryan Maue’s graph).
Per Willis: “But they seem to disregard the cooling effects of the decrease in downwelling shortwave (sunshine). This is likely to be significant, since stratospheric water is going to contain a lot of ice, and ice is a good reflector of sunlight”.
To form stratospheric clouds the temperature would have to be below -78ºC, the stratosphere is substantially warmer than that:
atmprofile.jpg
Phil, you’re guessing. There are indeed stratospheric ice clouds. See my comment and the associated link above.
w.
Yes I read it Willis that’s what I referred to above in response to that post, those clouds are basically at the tropopause, the coldest part of the lower atmosphere.
“We found that SICs with cloud-top heights of 250 m above the first lapse rate tropopause are mainly detected in the tropics. Monthly time series of SICs from 2007 to 2019 show that high occurrence frequencies of SICs follow the Intertropical Convergence Zone (ITCZ) over time in the tropics and that SICs vary interannually at different latitudes. Results show that SICs associated with double tropopauses, which are related to poleward isentropic transport, are mostly found at midlatitudes. More than 80 % of the SICs around 30∘ N/S are associated with double tropopauses”.
The water vapor in this case is much higher in the stratosphere where it’s significantly warmer and the H2O vapor pressure is much lower which means that ice would not form. Initially a lot of the water transported up there was in the form of ice crystals but it wouldn’t stay that way for very long because of the extremely low vapor pressure there.
Phil. August 7, 2023 7:08 pm
Per the Nature article Fig. 6 and Fig. 7, although as you say most of the water is higher up, there’s still lots of water just above the tropopause.
In addition, water vapor absorbs sunlight, so even in the absence of clouds there will still be a cooling shortwave reduction.
Regards,
w.
Well, in rebuttal there is this:
“Noctilucent clouds are composed of tiny crystals of water ice up to 100 nm in diameter and exist at a height of about 76 to 85 km (249,000 to 279,000 ft), higher than any other clouds in Earth’s atmosphere.”
— https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noctilucent_cloud
(my bold emphasis added)
It is generally accepted that the tropopause at its highest altitude (i.e., over the equator) is no more than about 18 km above sea level.
— http://www-das.uwyo.edu/~geerts/cwx/notes/chap01/tropo.html
Also, here is an interesting factoid for you, Willis and me to chew on (from the same cited Wikipedia article):
“Noctilucent clouds are first known to have been observed in 1885, two years after the 1883 eruption of Krakatoa. It remains unclear whether their appearance had anything to do with the volcanic eruption or whether their discovery was due to more people observing the spectacular sunsets caused by the volcanic debris in the atmosphere.”
Hmmm . . . insert something here about possible “time delay” . . .
“Well, in rebuttal there is this:
“Noctilucent clouds are composed of tiny crystals of water ice up to 100 nm in diameter and exist at a height of about 76 to 85 km (249,000 to 279,000 ft), higher than any other clouds in Earth’s atmosphere.””
But that’s not in the stratosphere it’s at the top of the mesosphere where the temperature is below -80ºC
OK, point taken.
Although might one might wonder how all that ice/water vapor transited the below-zero deg-C levels of the stratosphere to enter the mesosphere without ever forming (ice) clouds . . .
But wait . . . maybe it didn’t:
“Clouds are found almost exclusively in the troposphere . . . Yet on occasion thin veils of clouds are observed above the tropopause. Presumably these clouds consist largely of ice, although their exact composition is not known . . .
“Nacreous clouds, also known as mother-of-pearl clouds, are stratospheric; they occur between 15 and 30 km. Large volcanic eruptions emit dust particles in the lower stratosphere. These may combine with ice to produce nacreous clouds. In fact, in the year following Mt Pinatubo eruption in 1991, many nacreous clouds where spotted by airline pilots flying in the twilight . . .
“Nacreous clouds are normally too thin to be visible from the ground (Fig 1). They are most common in two situations. One situation is when strong winds (and winds increasing with height) cross a long mountain ridge, such as the Rocky Mountains in North America. The resulting high-amplitude gravity waves may propagate into the stratosphere. Nacreous clouds there are the stratospheric equivalent to lee wave clouds (Ac lenticularis) in the troposphere.”
— “Clouds above the troposphere”, B. Geerts and E. Linacre,
Ref: http://www-das.uwyo.edu/~geerts/cwx/notes/chap08/noctilucent.html
(my bold emphasis added)
On the mystery of ocean warming this summer, Judah Cohen remarked at his AER blog:
I feel like I have been highlighting all summer long this strange atmospheric feature that suggests stratosphere-troposphere coupling where warm/positive polar cap geopotential height anomalies (PCHs) seems to be propagating down from the stratosphere to the surface and forcing a negative AO. This coupling persists (see Figure 11) and once again is supporting a negative AO/NAO and Greenland blocking well into August. In Figure i, I post the NAO the observed and predicted NAO index from NOAA’s Climate Prediction Center and the NAO has been almost continuously negative since the start of summer. It is my experience that is very rare and showing my bias here but would love to see that repeated in winter!
High latitude blocking seems to be a more common summer feature of late, but it does seem to me that the high latitude blocking is stronger this summer than other recent summers. Of course, there is still plenty of summer left but looking ahead to the transition to fall, if the strong high latitude blocking continues well into the fall months this could have important implications on the developing polar vortex, but I digress and/or get ahead of myself.
From social media and the news certainly seems that there have been many superlatives in the weather from record high sea surface temperatures, record high land temperatures, heavy rainfalls, the lethargic growth of Antarctic sea ice and extensive Greenland ice melt. I just came across this nice story from the The Weather Channel on some of the record heat in the US this summer. Why has the globe seemed to turn the heat dial to 11 this summer, is an interesting question and I certainly don’t have the answer. At least some intuitive contributors are the developing El Niño and the Hunga Tonga volcanic eruption at the beginning of 2022. Unlike other explosive volcanoes it was sulfur poor but water vapor rich since it was an underwater volcano as discussed in this EOS article.
But despite the seemingly exceptional weather this summer across the Northern Hemisphere (NH), I think the overall pattern of surface temperature anomalies is consistent with recent summers and with summer forecasts from this past spring (the summer forecast was included in the 22 May 2023 blog post).
https://www.aer.com/science-research/climate-weather/arctic-oscillation/
I’m not an expert, and I’m not even sure that anyone knows what a water injection to the Stratosphere actually does to climate.
The eruption took place in SH summer.
How long does it take for materials to move from the point of injection to being distributed evenly around the globe?
If it’s a year then it would reach the NH peak early 2023. Did that mean an effect on NH spring and summer 2023 rather than an instant effect Autumn and winter 2022? Would most of the SH effect be warming the southern oceans?
I’ve not got a clue.
I read last week it’s been a bit chillier than normal in Tonga this winter.
As usual, Willis is on target in his assessment of any warming from the Hunga Tonga eruption on 15 Jan 2022. Since 2013, I have used twilight photometers to provide altitude profiles of atmospheric aerosols, water vapor, and the ozone layer. On 11 May 2022, my key water vapor photometer detected a thick band of water vapor in the lower mesosphere. I had never observed this before, so I sent a profile chart to the authors of a Hunga Tonga paper, one of whom is a prominent NASA atmospheric scientist. That profile chart created a good deal of interest, and within a month NASA assigned me to conduct regular twilight profiles in a contract that has been extended to 29 Feb 2024. The contract included funds to design and build much better twilight photometers, a task that was completed by Scott Hagerup, the sharp engineer who transformed my handheld TOPS ozone instrument into Microtops.
Water vapor is a key “greenhouse” gas. Because Hunga Tonga increased stratospheric water vapor by from 10% to 13% according to various papers, I assumed that the new Hunga Tonga water vapor would cause some warming during 2022. Various papers suggest that stratospheric water vapor warms the surface by a degree C or less C. If so, then a linear extrapolation of pre-HT water vapor by a 13% increase from HT might increase the surface temperature by a small fraction of a degree. But, as Willis notes, there was no obvious Hunga Tonga warming during 2022. Any possible increase might have been cancelled by surface cooling from HT aerosols, which persisted much longer than expected due to the chemistry within the aerosol plume caused by substantial water vapor.
The ongoing heat wave during 2023 presents a very different situation, for cooling by HT aerosols, while still present, is significantly reduced. Meanwhile, there has been considerable speculation that HT water vapor is behind the current heat wave. Could a 13% addition to stratospheric water vapor by the HT eruption cause a major, non-linear increase in surface temperature? Probably not, but HT was an historic, unprecedented eruption during the instrumentation record. Thus, the lack of precedence doesn’t rule out at least some warming.
Substantial HT water vapor will remain in the stratosphere for several years, after which its effect on surface temperature, if any, should be well understood. Meanwhile, I will continue to measure the altitude of HT aerosols and water vapor. And I’m confident Willis will be carefully watching both surface and satellite temperature trends.
The attached profile shows HT water vapor over my Texas site on 30 Apr 2023. The 50-60 km band is mesospheric water vapor unrelated to Hunga Tonga. The profile does not show low altitude tropospheric water vapor.
Willis,
Oops. Was gonna ask if seen this study on the topic?
Didn’t read down comments far enough…
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2022GL099381
They predicted (possible) surface warming and it happened. The scientific method in action.
It’s not a post hoc fallacy because they gave good reasons why it should happen.
If the next five years indeed prove warmer than the previous five, alarmists will blame anthropogenic CO2, not ENSO and the Tonga eruption.
Don’t worry, alarmists will always blame Trump.
Milo, who is “they”, and exactly what did they predict and where did they predict it? Links, please.
FWIW, I never saw a single prediction that said “14 months after the eruption we’ll see a jump step in temperatures” …
w.
How about reading the link to which I responded? The authors predicted 18 to 24 months for effects in mid latitudes, since you’re averse to reading anything which challenges your ill-informed assumptions.
“They” are the authors of the paper. Why am I not surprised you didn’t bother to read it?
Willfully ignorant people without any education in relevant disciplines should really not presume to comment on issues outside their limited (to say the least) competence.
PS: Only a complete geological, chemical and physical nincompoop, ie you, would equate the Tongan eruption with El Chichon and Pinatubo.
Milo August 7, 2023 10:11 pm
Milo, this is EXACTLY why I ask people to quote what the fark they are talking about. Yes, your “they” could easily have referred to the paper. But it also it could have referred to any other paper on the planet. I can’t read your mind. People talk about all kinds of things when they are responding to some comment, and often they have little to do with that comment.
Next, yes, I read the paper. I was totally unimpressed, so I just kept going.
You claim “They predicted (possible) surface warming and it happened.”
But in fact, they didn’t predict a damn thing. They said it “may lead to surface warming” and it “could potentially warm the surface”. that it “could reduce stratospheric temperature”, and that it “could also result in the tropospheric westerly jets becoming stronger and storm tracks shifting poleward”.
And they said it “may lead to global warming”. Perhaps that kind of candy-assed wishy-washy BS impresses you. Me, not so much.
Then they say that “HT-HH may be the first volcanic eruption observed to impact climate not through surface cooling caused by volcanic sulfate aerosols, but rather through surface warming caused by excess H2O radiative forcing.”
And yes, it “could” and “might” and “may” and “potentially” be or do a host of things … but those are handwaving, not scientific predictions. A scientific prediction is falsifiable, and not one of those is falsifiable.
Look, at any given time, the surface is either warming or cooling. If I say “it could potentially warm next month” and it does, is that a successful prediction? Because I’ll be right about half the time … and even if it doesn’t happen, hey, I didn’t say it WOULD warm, I said it COULD POTENTIALLY warm, which was 100% true. So my statement is not falsified, it could have warmed.
Next, you say that “The authors predicted 18 to 24 months for effects in mid latitudes”.
In fact, they said “The excess H2O could arrive in northern and southern midlatitudes in ∼18 and ∼24 months, respectively.” And yes, they could … or not.
However, since the claimed step change in temperature occurred 14 months after the eruption, I’d say that was a badly failed non-prediction.
Finally, let me politely invite you to stuff your vile claim that I’m “averse to reading anything which challenges my ill-informed assumptions” as far up the distal end of your esophagus as you can reach. It’s both untrue and slimy. Try it again, and you’ll never get another word of response from me.
w.
Story tip. Until there is an appreciation of the amount of sodium chloride entrained in the ‘water’ that was injected into the stratosphere and the effect that such high concentrations of these (and associated) elements have on instrument readings, the value of those readings is suspect.
When HT erupted, it must have also released a large amount of energy into the surrounding ocean.
Where did it all go?
I would think it was still providing a significant amount of heat energy.
We saw a BIG volcanic eruption, and it did not affect the climate as it should have done – or did it? First, it depends on your definition of “climate” – we can only see “weather”, not “climate”. Second, maybe we don’t know enough about BIG volcanic eruptions, and we surely don’t know enough about “climate”. When an unknown meets an unknown, mysteries arise naturally. Long live settled science.
I would concur with Willis – this isn’t passing the smell test for me at this point, unless solid data & analysis supports why there is a 14 month lag. I am open to the possibility but I don’t see anything at this point that I feel is that compelling to say the events are connected.
Yes, morons, each major volcanic eruption puts more “greenhouse gas” into the atmosphere than the human race has ever, or can ever, produce. Stupid f*cks.
First, calling folks “morons” and “stupid f*cks” is not going to get anyone to do much except point at you and laugh.
Next, sorry, but your claim that “each major volcanic eruption puts more “greenhouse gas” into the atmosphere than the human race has ever” is a joke. That’s a popular myth that has been falsified over and over and over, see below for a few of them … but I guess there are still some moronic stupid f*cks who haven’t gotten the memo.
w.
https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-volcanoes-co2/fact-check-volcanoes-do-not-produce-more-co2-emissions-than-human-activity-idUSL1N2XV1HA
https://www.climate.gov/news-features/climate-qa/which-emits-more-carbon-dioxide-volcanoes-or-human-activities
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-volcanoes-co2-emissions-383647479337
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/earthtalks-volcanoes-or-humans/
https://www.science.org/content/article/scienceshot-volcano-co2-emissions-no-match-human-activity
https://skepticalscience.com/volcanoes-and-global-warming.htm
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2023/01/25/fact-check-humans-produce-100-times-more-co-2-than-volcanoes/11074806002/
https://phys.org/news/2019-10-humanity-emissions-times-greater-volcanoes.html
https://volcano.oregonstate.edu/man-versus-volcanos
Carl Spackler: So I jump ship in Hong Kong and I make my way over to Tibet, and I get on as a looper at a course over in the Himalayas.
Angie D’Annunzio: A looper?
Carl Spackler: A looper, you know, a caddy, a looper, a jock. So, I tell them I’m a pro jock, and who do you think they give me? The Dalai Lama, himself. Twelfth son of the Lama. The flowing robes, the grace, bald… striking. So, I’m on the first tee with him. I give him the driver. He hauls off and whacks one – big hitter, the Lama – long, into a ten-thousand-foot crevasse, right at the base of this glacier. Do you know what the Lama says? Gunga galunga… gunga, gunga-lagunga.
It’s an onomatopoeic metaphor…
Must I explain the metaphor? Okay…
The High Priests of Climathesism have concocted mystical theories and models to foretell the battles of the Climate Gods, only to see their oracle portents sliced into the Ravine of Nothingness. No effect, despite the rigorously propounded causationals. In the end it’s just a silly story.
And yet the theorizing proceeds apace. Witness all the armchair hand waving and grasping at models herein. Can’t let go of the divinations, even when there’s no there there. How exasperating! Hunga ga tonga! Hunga hunga ga tonga!
Some thoughts. What else was happening that might affect the situation?
For example, in 2022 we were into La Nina and most people expected more cooling. It didn’t happen. Willis notes there was no warming either. It seems possible there actually was warming from H-T that simply canceled out the La Nina cooling.
In March 2023 the La Nina ended and that’s approximately when the warming started. If we assume there was a La Nina cooling influence and a H-T warming influence, the data seems to match quite nicely both in 2022 and 2023.
Keep in mind that water vapor averages ~250 times stronger warming effect in the upper atmosphere than it does at the surface due to saturation effects. Even at a low concentration this multiplier could make it more significant.
Some of the warming could to be jet stream related. The jet stream looks like it has slowed. Difficult to say how the eruption might have affected the jet stream but it clearly could be related.
In order for water vapor to condense, you need cloud condensation nuclei. Not sure how much exists above the lower Stratosphere. This could be another reason the water vapor will not form ice.
Finally, there are possible effects from the eruption itself. A tsunami was sent crashing into Antarctica at a time of relatively low sea ice. Could this have weakened the ice to the point where it will take some time to build up higher ice levels. Maybe that is why the ice has not expanded as much during the SH winter.
According to UAH we are about .3 C warmer than last July and some of this should be from ENSO. We should see more warming from ENSO later this year. Should be interesting to see how high it goes. It would be interesting to vault past the 1.5 C and 2 C levels.
We should be very careful in dismissing the effect of the eruption. I’ll admit I did that initially but now I’m having 2nd thoughts.
Have we any idea of the “normal” loading of water vapor in the various altitude regimes? Seems like we don’t really know how much “alot” is if we don’t know the proportional increase from Tonga. Maybe with measurements, someone could actually do some sciencing, instead of making BS headlines.
I don’t think of yours as a guess Willis, seems like you’ve falsified the hypothesis (as if any scientist has actually proposed one). What we have is two events that have no connection other than their proximity in time: the definition of co-incidence, and not a very close one at that.
Nice how “they” (whoever they are) can shift the blame for the failure of “anthropogenic” CO2 to raise temperatures over to a natural event. But CO2 is still bad, bad, bad.
Dang Willis, there you go with your white supremacist, patriarchal logic again. I don’t care what the data says , it’s what I FEEL that matters. 😉
I don’t know why there is any discussion of “water vapour” here. Even the top down video of the explosion shows massive amounts of water being thrown up , not transparent water vapour. The stratosphere is around -60 deg C. so any water blasted up that will cause very little to remain as WV. What we could look at is that this was SEA water. How much salt was thrown up?
Wasn’t this one of the genius geo-engineering solutions to global warming ? How about we examine this natural experiment in how well that will work ?
The first question raised by figure 1 is why was there an abrupt and far sharper DROP in April 2022 of equal magnitude. If they can’t explain that attempts to attribute this year’s rise are a non starter.
As we saw with the sulphate aerosols of Mt Pinatubo, the effects on AOD increase as an exponential spread (1-exp(t)) . counteracted by an exponential elimination. This is consistent with very simple chemistry , regarding both processes as “rate reactions”. The eruption: and impulse injection of reagent is convoluted with an exponential kernel. The result is again convoluted with a different exponential ( different time constants ) . This gives a qualitative model of the overall process. Adjusting just the two time constants gives a very good fit to AOD following Mt. P , as I showed here:
https://climategrog.wordpress.com/category/volcanism/

Convolution is a simple sliding window, weighted average calculation, it is basically how we calculate running means and more well designed filters such as gaussian. Exponential window functions are also very useful.
Bottom line, the effects are immediate, continuous, monotonic and are clearly distinguishable after a month. There is no way to get a flat response then a step change 14 weeks later.
“There is no way to get a flat response then a step change 14 weeks later.”
I think it is a little more complicated than that, Pinatubo was an atmospheric opacity event with Enso neutral conditions, this a radiative transfer event that was competing with La-Nina last year.
Well, first off it was 14 months later for the temperature step change, not 14 weeks.
Setting this aside, you may be interested in this excerpt from Wikipedia:
“Noctilucent clouds are first known to have been observed in 1885, two years after the 1883 eruption of Krakatoa. It remains unclear whether their appearance had anything to do with the volcanic eruption or whether their discovery was due to more people observing the spectacular sunsets caused by the volcanic debris in the atmosphere.”
— https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noctilucent_cloud
(my bold emphasis added)
Hmmm . . . it’s been right at 140 years since Krakatoa erupted and atmospheric scientists still don’t know if there was a cause-effect relationship associated with appearance of noctilucent clouds two years after a major surface volcano eruption. Gosh, the science of how major volcano eruptions affect Earth’s atmosphere must not be as simple as one might think.
But wait . . . revisiting your bottom line statement above, I am wrong . . . you surely would not have any interest whatsoever in this fact.
Is this a case of the dog that didn’t bark in the night? One of the feared side effects of more atmospheric CO2 is more water vapor. Here we had an event that significantly increased water vapor in the atmosphere and the response from global weather was crickets. That suggests there is something about the impact of more water vapor that we don’t understand perhaps related to clouds. I think this is an important mystery to understand.
Willis, on your UAH MSU lower stratosphere temperature, the (recording setting) dip in lower stratospheric temperature following, is the signature from the event. The lower stratospheric temperatures were influenced by the particulate matter from the eruption for some number of months.
Yes, the lower stratosphere temperature shows a jump in Jan/Feb 2022 in the SH (but still noticeable in the global value in February) followed by a drop which would be expected due to the SO2/aerosol effect (although much smaller than El Chichon and Pinatubo which had much more SO2). If the recent jump is due to this eruption then as I have said before, the delay could be due to the initial cancelling by the SO2/aerosol cooling and the warming due to the stratospheric water. It will be interesting to see the future developments.
Also, the effects of the eruption were competing with an entrenched La-Nina state. Pinatubo was an atmospheric opacity issue which logically one would assume the effects would be more rapid (sharp decline of incoming), and when you look at the data there are no abrupt changes in global temperatures. It took years to see the trend.
The amount of heat under the surface equatorial Pacific increased from April to July, where it reached its highest value. Doesn’t the global temperature of the troposphere rise during El Niño? Even when it is not strong?

Yes, it does. A good example is the ‘moderate’ El Niño of 2009-2010. Typically, ENSO events peak on UAH Global LT data about 4 months after they peak on the Oceanic Niño Index (ONI).


As you will be aware, the Oceanic Niño Index (ONI) is the rolling three-month average of the sea surface temperature (SST) anomaly in the Niño-3.4 region in the equatorial Pacific Ocean. It is quite instructive, in my opinion, to look at the measured SST values instead of simply focussing on the calculated ONI (anomaly) values. In the plot below, the monthly SST values are shown by the red line and the climatology (average SST over a 30-year base period) is shown in blue. The difference between the two curves reflects the monthly anomaly values, which are then averaged over three months to obtain the ONI value.
A key difference between moderate or larger El Niño events and all La Niña events is the fact that former show little or no seasonal cooling, with less of a sharp peak and high SSTs lasting many months, whereas La Niña events are largely limited to each seasonal cooling event separated by a clear warmer period. The peak seen in the ONI data is a consequence of the anomaly values reflecting the absence of this seasonal cooling. This observation is entirely consistent with the view that upwelling cold waters in the equatorial Pacific Ocean are significantly reduced (‘shut-off’) during El Niño events.
W. Could this delay be caused by ozone depletion started by the injection of 13% more water vapor into the stratosphere which then coupled with particulates from Canadian wildfires? The timing is about right. [story tip]
How wildfires deplete ozone in the stratosphere:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-00598-w
2023 Canadian wildfireshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Canadian_wildfires
Typhoons in the Western Pacific. One of them reaches South Korea.


New York Post article from a year ago:
Massive volcano eruption could weaken ozone layer, scientists warn
LINK as posted by Lepton at Free Republic
Tonga’s Eruption Fallout: How It Worsened Australia’s Flood Crisis | In-Depth Analysis