Correct, CBS News Texas, Wind Energy Struggles in Heat (And Other Conditions)

From ClimateREALISM

By Linnea Lueken

CBS News Texas posted an article to their website describing how wind turbines struggle to produce enough electricity during heat waves, due to the natural effect of lower wind speeds during these events. This is true, and it highlights one of the biggest problems renewable sources face when they are supposed to make up a greater and greater share of electricity production. That is, they are highly weather dependent and often fail under unideal conditions.

The article, “Low wind could hamper wind turbine production in Texas,” explains that the coming hot summer days in Texas will likely be a problem for electricity generation, as “energy experts say the state’s wind turbines may not produce as much power because of low wind forecasts. “

Heat domes and heat waves in general are known for causing a drop in wind speeds, and the same thing happened last year in Texas under similar weather conditions, during which wind turbines dropped to operating at just 8 percent of capacity.

The expert CBS interviewed for the post, Dr. Todd Griffith of the Wind Energy Center at UT Dallas admitted that when the wind doesn’t blow, “we need to compensate for that with these other sources…namely, natural gas and coal sources and nuclear.”

This is true, and it doesn’t seem to make much sense to intentionally add unreliable electricity generation to the grid which threaten consumers with power shortages in the first place.

In the case of Texas, these failures tend happen during the highest electricity demand time of year, summer, when air conditioning is needed most.

Indeed, the Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT) issued a weather watch because of anticipated heat, and while they said that grid conditions are expected to be “normal” they did caution that demand is expected to rise and Texans may want to voluntarily reduce electricity use, “if safe to do so.”

Solar power also suffers under high temperatures. Temperatures over 25°C begin to cause a problem for solar panels, as photovoltaic cells that are overheated experience a voltage drop, which leads to a decline in power output, as detailed in Energy at a Glance: Solar Power Reliability and Costs. Great Britain has experienced that this year already, and had to ramp up coal burning for electricity in order to make up for the loss of solar generated electricity on their grid amid a relatively modest heat wave.

Climate Realism has often covered the issues surrounding wind and solar in particular, such as in these posts herehere, and here, where it is pointed out that not only do these sources struggle in extreme heat, but cold as well, as demonstrated during the heavy freeze in Texas during February of 2021. They also tend to generate more environmentally hazardous waste than proponents are willing to admit, and even in normal conditions, do not generate as much electricity (or revenue) as advertised.

Because sources like wind are proving themselves to be less reliable than traditional means of electricity generation, grid operators nationwide are beginning to warn consumers and policymakers that moving too quickly to shut down reliable baseload power like coal, nuclear, hydro, and natural gas in favor of wind and solar will result in rolling blackouts and brownouts.

Recently, Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) Commissioner Mark Christie told the House Committee on Energy and Commerce that he thinks “we’re heading for potentially very dire consequences, potentially catastrophic consequences in the United States in terms of the reliability of our grid, and I think that the basic reason is that we’re facing a shortfall of power supply[.]”

It makes sense, as the U.S. population continues to grow, and as climate alarmist policymakers push for total electrification of homes and even transportation, more power is going to be needed. Instead of merely adding additional capacity in the form of renewables, though, traditional sources are being decommissioned in order to reach “net-zero,” often despite the fact that no renewable is able to make up for the power generation loss.

While CBS may not have directly made the connection between wind turbine failures and mass electrification and decommissioning of reliable power sources, they have left a positive bread crumb in the form of educating readers about the struggles of wind turbines in heat waves, a natural and recurring part of Texas’ climate. Hopefully readers will take the logical trail from there, and realize that there will be serious problems with future expansion of renewables.

Linnea Lueken

Linnea Lueken is a Research Fellow with the Arthur B. Robinson Center on Climate and Environmental Policy. While she was an intern with The Heartland Institute in 2018, she co-authored a Heartland Institute Policy Brief “Debunking Four Persistent Myths About Hydraulic Fracturing.”

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July 4, 2023 2:08 pm

I look forward to the contents and conclusions of this paper being reported in all MSM outlets.

Aye, right.
(Scots is the only language where a double positive equals a negative.)

Editor
Reply to  Oldseadog
July 4, 2023 2:27 pm

Thanks, Oldseadog. That made me laugh.

Regards,
Bob

Beta Blocker
Reply to  Oldseadog
July 4, 2023 4:20 pm

A mathematics professor tells his class that two positives cannot transform to a negative.

From the back of the classroom comes this sarcastic reply: Yeah yeah.

Loren Wilson
Reply to  Oldseadog
July 4, 2023 7:12 pm

Yeah, yeah is also a double positive that implies extreme skepticism.

PVLFG
Reply to  Oldseadog
July 5, 2023 5:57 pm

Yeah, right! 😉

DCE
Reply to  Oldseadog
July 7, 2023 4:04 am

Scots is the only language where a double positive equals a negative.”

Yeah. Right.

Mr.
July 4, 2023 2:17 pm

Linnea is another rational, educated adult pointing out the basic, glaring logical and physical flaws in the irrationality of thinking that haphazard weather behaviors are a reliable basis for generating utility-scale electricity supply anywhere on this planet.

Yet we are regaled by “believers” who maintain that these moronic follies are “the way forward” for contemporary civilisations.

Despite their being presented day after day with irrefutable observations, facts and numbers that show the abject failures of wind & solar as satisfactory solutions to modern societies’ power needs.

It can no longer be refuted that “renewable” power generation from wind & solar is nothing but religion, ideology, cultism.

July 4, 2023 2:33 pm

When I think about the MSM obsessing on this AGWarming and net Zero absurdity while at this very moment there are some of the most serious and inhumane things going on from human trafficking to destruction of our civil liberties, no national security ( border , china etc) patched together banking systems, mad scientists messing around with lethal viruses to a cavalier attitude to nuclear war and on and on and on- And they continue to fiddle around with worthless windmills and solar panels.

Something has got to give!

July 4, 2023 2:33 pm

So do solar panels, efficiency drops off markedly with ambients above 30degC

Reply to  Energywise
July 5, 2023 4:41 am

Solar panels can get as hot as 65°C /149°F. That’s just in the UK. Solar panels produce maximum efficiency between 15°C/59°F and 35°C/95°F. In this regard, it is worth noting that photovoltaic panels lose efficiency as soon as their surface temperature reaches 25°C/77°F. Therefore, a standard photovoltaic panel produces 80% heat for just 20% of generated electricity.

Or have I made a basic mistake.

Nick Stokes
July 4, 2023 2:36 pm

Heat domes and heat waves in general are known for causing a drop in wind speeds”

Nothing quantified. But what isn’t mentioned is that solar is doing very well under these conditions.

The ERCOT dashboard is here. I find it very hard to get good graphical information there. But they do, when asked for yesterday, give this graph of the afternoon peak demand:

comment image

It does show wind, in blue, reducing in the hot afternoon. But the solar, in orange, well matches the demand peak. The result is that the other fuel sources can operate under almost steady conditions through the peak.

Mr.
Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 4, 2023 2:47 pm

solar is doing very well

Nick, is this your today’s impersonation of Alec Guiness (as Obi Wan Kenobi)?

“these are not the droids you’re looking for”

See, this ploy worked in the fantasy film Star Wars, but in real life, we know you’re just bullshitting.

Nick Stokes
Reply to  Mr.
July 4, 2023 3:27 pm

bullshitting”
I provide data. The bullshitters just wave arms.

rah
Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 4, 2023 3:58 pm

Hey Nick. How’s that solar going to work if Biden and AOC block the suns rays as their proposing?

Reply to  rah
July 5, 2023 5:44 am

That’s a good question! 🙂

Some reporter should ask that of the Biden administration.

I don’t think the “blocking the sun” proposal is serious in the Biden administration, at least, not yet, but that’s a good question to ask anyway.

It highlights climate alarmist stupidity.

Mr.
Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 4, 2023 4:17 pm

I don’t know if you’ve noticed Nick, but around the 05 mark in your graph, solar stops “doing very well”, and in fact it stops working completely.

I hear this happens every. single. day.

What’s the use of it as a utility people have to rely on 24x7x52 then?

Nick Stokes
Reply to  Mr.
July 4, 2023 4:55 pm

Yes. Summer demand drops as well, as does FF generation.

Mr.
Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 4, 2023 5:02 pm

That’s not an answer to my simple question Nick.

Reply to  Mr.
July 5, 2023 3:28 am

You’ll never get an answer from him.

Note carefully that the percentage of the total power contributed by solar has a broad peak at about 2 and then falls off while wind increases in percentage-of-total after 2.

I assume the graph is from noon to evening. Meaning solar reaches its peak about 1pm to 2pm and then tails off after that – just when peak demand hits from the air conditioning driven by afternoon heat.

This graph simply doesn’t show what Stokes would like you to believe. The author is correct, when it gets hot solar output goes down.

Reply to  Tim Gorman
July 5, 2023 9:52 am

And is less and less efficient as one moves into higher and higher latitudes.

rah
Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 4, 2023 3:56 pm

High pressure is what makes a heat dome possible and high pressure generally means less wind. The very fact that you have tried to change the subject AGAIN says it all Nick.

Nick Stokes
Reply to  rah
July 4, 2023 4:15 pm

A heat dome also means it is likely the sun is productive.

Richard Page
Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 4, 2023 4:29 pm

What you mean is that the conditions that create a heat dome tend to suppress cloud formation? Clear skies, Nick – nothing to do with how productive the sun is.

rah
Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 4, 2023 4:31 pm

Except at night or when beaten into landfill by hail, or when cloudy, or when they get too dirty, or when they get older and their efficiency declines significantly. Keep on beating that unreliable solar drum on a thread about the failure of wind turbines to provide reliable energy Nick. I LOVE IT!

Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 5, 2023 3:29 am

Except according to your graph, solar output as a percentage of total output FALLS after about 1pm – when the sun is most productive!

Nick Stokes
Reply to  Tim Gorman
July 5, 2023 9:14 am

I haven’t been able to work out why the zero point on the x axis – according to the active overlay, it is 3pm CT.

cc
Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 4, 2023 4:23 pm

that graphic is the power generation curves, not the demand curve; in very hot places like TX, and especially AZ and southern CA the demand is typically called “the duck curve” because demand accelerates rapidly after the sunset hours because the heat continues to build through the early evening, causing consumers to use AC to cool their homes as they return from work. The demand duck curve rises upward just as the power generation curves of solar and wind are rapidly declining to zero, as seen in your graphic in the hours after sunset.

Nick Stokes
Reply to  cc
July 4, 2023 4:57 pm

They match generation to demand.

Mr.
Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 4, 2023 5:10 pm

They match generation to demand.

They boost up solar generation after sunset Nick?

Please explain.

Chris Hanley
Reply to  Mr.
July 4, 2023 5:57 pm

All Mr Stokes can do in response is resort to disingenuousness (see also the non-reply to Mr 4:55pm).

rah
Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 4, 2023 5:34 pm

ERCOT telling people to not use so much electricity or possibly suffer blackouts is more like they are trying cut demand to match available generation capacity.

Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 5, 2023 9:56 am

They match generation to demand.”

😂 😂 🤣 🤣 😂 😂 🤣 😂 🤣 😂 🤣 😂 😂 🤣 🤣 😂 🤣
Sure they do…

DCE
Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 7, 2023 4:14 am

Renewables like wind and solar don’t work that way. Both are variable supplies and they are not predictably dispatchable.

The grid has to adjust to the amount of power they can provide at any moment as compared to just adjusting generation to demand. So it’s a two-factor balancing act versus the one-factor balancing act of ‘traditional’ generation sources.

Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 4, 2023 6:22 pm

Hi Nick,
I am the guy still waiting for your views on the carbon footprint of LNG.
But, I do graphs. Attached is a graph showing ERCOT data for July/Aug 2022 with total production and solar production. Solar peaks around 1:00pm. Demand peaks about 5:00pm and is still quite high at 8:00pm when solar is gone.
Note that during these two months solar produced 6% of the grid electricity.
That number for wind power, BTW, was 17%.
What inferences?
Solar and wind are a long way from suppling TX’s energy needs.
Based on this, EV’s should be banned in TX since they run mainly on fossil fuels. And, TX is a world leader in renewable energy.
Let that sink in.
Note: The graphic is a separate post. Sorry about that.

Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 4, 2023 6:26 pm

Hi Nick,
I am the guy still waiting for your views on the carbon footprint of LNG.
But, I do graphs. Attached is a graph showing ERCOT data for July/Aug 2022 with total production and solar production. Solar peaks around 1:00pm. Demand peaks about 5:00pm and is still quite high at 8:00pm when solar is gone.
Note that during these two months solar produced 6% of the grid electricity.
That number for wind power, BTW, was 17%.
What inferences?
Solar and wind are a long way from suppling TX’s energy needs.
Based on this, EV’s should be banned in TX since they run mainly on fossil fuels. And, TX is a world leader in renewable energy.
Let that sink in.

TX solar total.png
Nick Stokes
Reply to  joel
July 4, 2023 7:25 pm

joel,
I can do plots too. Here are the same moths in 2022, but with fuel sources stacked. FF (with nuclear) generation is the top of the gas, ie blue. Renewables just reduce the amount of FF that you have to burn, at all times of the day. The situation for FF would not be improved by having to follow the total demand curve.

comment image

Dave Fair
Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 4, 2023 10:22 pm

But wind and solar cost more to produce the same energy. Why waste the money?

Bryan A
Reply to  Dave Fair
July 5, 2023 2:21 pm

And FF doesn’t require Wind and Solar Spinning Reserves.
Oh Wait, Wind and Solar CAN’T provide spinning reserves. They’re either On or Off with Solar being effectively Off 18 hours a day

Nick Stokes
Reply to  joel
July 4, 2023 7:36 pm

Here is a 15 min plot of the rirst week of July 2022, with the same colors, showing how solar chips in just when needed.

comment image

Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 4, 2023 8:33 pm

Solar chips in in the morning just as energy use goes up, and fades in the late afternoon while energy use remains high. It would be hard charging your EV after getting home from work using solar power. Same pattern in California. In California they import energy from out of state when that happens, every single day.

Bryan A
Reply to  joel
July 5, 2023 2:23 pm

Just wait for EVs to me Mandated then Peak Demand will extend even further into Solar Unavailability Time (at night )

Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 4, 2023 10:09 pm

showing how solar chips in just when needed.

Solar ships in when needed – like at night?

Dave Fair
Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 4, 2023 10:33 pm

“Chips in” at a very high price. And at greater penetrations it would be disastrous to system operations.

Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 5, 2023 6:59 am

It looks to me like gas is doing all the work. The energy division amongst sources would lead one to believe that a whole lot more renewables are needed to quit using fossil fuels. But then one has to wonder, if gas is done away with, what supplies the demand when solar and wind die away as this graph shows. Just imagine how many more windmills are going to be needed when wind has to make up for no gas. Is there enough land in Texas to support that many.

Say you build 4 times a many windmills as there are currently. When the wind dies, do some keep turning? Or do we just start diesel and GT generators. that can put power into the system quickly?

Bryan A
Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 5, 2023 2:38 pm

Soooo
What happened to wind on that First Day Hump AND Last Day Hump? It almost completely vanishes mid morning

Curious George
Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 4, 2023 6:42 pm

Nick, I would understand the graph if it is a generation. But demand? Can you demand wind – or solar – or hydro – in Texas?

Nick Stokes
Reply to  Curious George
July 4, 2023 7:42 pm

It is a graph of generation at the peak demand period.

Loren Wilson
Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 4, 2023 7:21 pm

Based on today’s power usage in Texas via the ERCOT dashboard, the peak in demand is from about 4 pm until 8 pm and is pretty flat at 90% of the peak from noon until 10 pm. Solar drops by 50% from 4 pm to 8 pm and is zero by 9 pm. Demand has dropped by less than 10% from its peak and solar is producing zip. Your statement about solar matching demand is a bit of a stretch.

Reply to  Loren Wilson
July 5, 2023 7:01 am

Remember too that NH is in summer with the longest days. Days will get shorter but demand won’t change much timewise. What happens in January/February.

Bryan A
Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 5, 2023 2:17 pm

I also see Solar’s output diminishing after 3pm and vanishing before 6pm, well before (3+ hours) the sun sets.
Also it appears that, at its peak (noonish) solar was generating far less than it’s 14,249 MW capacity. Perhaps (visually) just over 10,000MW about 2/3 capacity
It also looks like wind output was even more dismal with a paltry 8% capacity

posa
Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 6, 2023 11:48 am

You’re right Nick. Numbers don’t lie. As for affordability, TX ranked 28th least expensive electric power rates in Jan ’23 (though costs jumped 15% for some reason from ’22).

TX , however, has a unique climate and likely an exception to the rule. See for example this report published on naked capitalism. It concludes:

“Despite claims to the contrary, costs which have improved dramatically over time may not be at grid parity as LCOEs  are sensitive to assumptions, financing terms, technology, location and subsidies. In particular, the lack of proper accounting for externalities means comparisons are frequently spurious and vehicles for partisan lobbying.

It means that the ability of renewables to supplant fossil fuel for powering the modern global economy at an acceptable cost is far from established.”

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2023/07/energy-destinies-part-4-renewable-economics-at-cost.html

Rud Istvan
July 4, 2023 3:00 pm

I like to keep things simple.

Solar—doesn’t work in cloudy winter with snow (Germany comment example a bit ago) and doesn’t work now in hot summer in Texas. When it does work, its capacity factor in sunny SCA is at best 25%. In Germany, which has a real winter, at best 10%.

Wind—doesn’t work in winter when blades are iced. Doesn’t work in summer when winds are calm. When it does work in north Texas/Nebraska, capacity factor is about 31%.

So for renewable significant penetration grid stability, something more than about 70% of the time the grid needs to have a redundant backup generation system running always by definition capital underutilized. Brilliant (not) unavoidable system economics.

Simple solution: make renewable operators pay for their own necessary backup, rather than pawning that cost onto the rest of the grid. They coasted on small penetration when grid already had necessary 10-15% backup. Now they cannot anymore. Make them pay their full system grid costs, and there won’t be any more renewable investment.

rah
Reply to  Rud Istvan
July 4, 2023 5:36 pm

But then there wouldn’t be any more kick backs!

Reply to  Rud Istvan
July 5, 2023 6:02 am

“Simple solution: make renewable operators pay for their own necessary backup, rather than pawning that cost onto the rest of the grid.”

Republicans should get behind this idea.

Tell the Public that lack of sufficient electricity backup is putting their electric grid at risk and is driving up electricity prices for everyone, and a simple solution to this is to require all new power generation installations to provide their own backup facilities before they are allowed onto the grid.

Mac
July 4, 2023 3:25 pm

I always see the term “renewables” in most articles. There is nothing renewable about windmills and solar panels. We all know they couldn’t be manufactured without fossil fuels nor could they be deployed either. Couple that with short life spans compared to natural gas facilities, coal plants, and nuclear and the fact that at end of life (~20 yrs) there is a huge and growing disposal problem (Japan for instance has greater than 700 tons of solar panel waste) calling them renewables is a joke.

Reply to  Mac
July 5, 2023 6:06 am

“Renewables” is “1984”-type NewSpeak.

Scarecrow Repair
July 4, 2023 3:26 pm

And there’s the continuing problem of replacing every wind turbine every 12 years. Or every 15, or 20, makes little difference, it’s more often than actual power plants, which can be actually recycled.

Reply to  Scarecrow Repair
July 5, 2023 6:13 am

Yes, it gets ridiculous after a while.

Powering civilization with windmills and solar is ridiculous. It’s becoming more and more obvious as time goes along. People do seem to be waking up to these realities. Let’s hope they wake up soon enough to save our economies and societies from the folly of “renewables”.

It’s time to go Big with nuclear power generation. You want plenty of power? Go nuclear. You don’t want CO2? Go nuclear. You fear grid breakdown? Go nuclear.

Bob
July 4, 2023 3:47 pm

Very nice Linnea, there are two issues here.

Number one wind and solar are not capable of generating energy suitable for our grid. Both need to be removed from the grid, naturally that means we need to invest in fossil fuel and nuclear now. We need to invest a lot now because of all the time, money and material we have pissed away on wind and solar.

Second we need to go after every agency responsible for energy reliability, every time we experience unreliable energy those people need to be held responsible. They need to account for every brown out and blackout we experience, if it is something out of their control such as tornado, hurricane, fire or storm they need to see what can be done to strengthen the grid. If the problem is not due to one of the above then they need to answer for why they allowed the deficiencies to occur. Non sufficient power, insufficient power generators, lack of grid maintenance, insufficient grid or anything like that they need to answer for and be punished for not doing their job. I’m talking serious punishment because people’s lives and livelihoods are at stake. This would be a perfect check on the mindless power development we have seen to date. If a project interferes with reliability it is cancelled until it won’t interfere with reliability.

John Hultquist
July 4, 2023 4:01 pm

Here’s simple:
Because wind and solar are variable — backup is needed.
Governments dictate that the backup operate inefficiently.
Thus, two systems are necessary, and both provide poor outcomes.
Costs increase. The net effect on CO2 emissions is unknowable.
The Climate™ doesn’t care.

Mr.
Reply to  John Hultquist
July 4, 2023 5:14 pm

+100

Allan MacRae
July 4, 2023 5:46 pm

A late-in-the day Happy Glorious 4th of July to all my American friends!

You better take back your country from the woke crazy Dems and RINO’s who are destroying her, because if America falls, there’s nowhere left to run to.

Regards, Allan MacRae

Four years ago:

THE COST TO SOCIETY OF RADICAL ENVIRONMENTALISM
By Allan M.R. MacRae, B.A.Sc., M.Eng., July 4, 2019
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/07/04/the-cost-to-society-of-radical-environmentalism/
“Global warming and climate change alarmism was never about the science – it was always a false narrative, a smokescreen for the totalitarian objectives of the extreme left.”

Dave Fair
Reply to  Allan MacRae
July 4, 2023 10:47 pm

Thanks for the birthday greetings, Allan. We now have majority of Supreme Court Justices that are fighting back against the forces of darkness. Its tough when people vote on feelings rather than rational analyses of the facts with the guidance of our Constitution. We barely have a majority that believes in the freedom of speech. Worse, a large majority believes the Federal government should be in the charity business.

Reply to  Allan MacRae
July 5, 2023 6:20 am

Good news, Allan, a U.S. Federal Judge just ruled that the Biden administration is violating the free speech of Americans by colluding with social media outlets to censor the speech of conservatives.

The Judge told Biden to Stop It.

And after this the House of Representatives should impeach Biden for violating First Amendment rights and gross dereliction of duty, along with corruption in office, and running roughshod over the U.S. Constitution, using the power of the federal government to attack their political opponents.

July 4, 2023 5:57 pm

In TX, wind power also fails in cold snaps.

Reply to  joel
July 5, 2023 6:22 am

Yes, the winds die down under high-pressure systems whether it is hot or cold. Once they settle in, the winds inside reduce.

antibanshee
July 5, 2023 6:47 am

In high heat, air density decreases, which would cause the windmills to operate less efficiently as well.

Editor
July 5, 2023 1:29 pm

As a loyal Texan, who is horrified by Texas stupidity, I highly compliment the author of this post, Linnea Lueken, well done!