Former New Zealand PM Joins Global Climate Skeptic Censorship Push

Essay by Eric Worrall

Former NZ PM Jacinda Ardern has formally joined Harvard’s global push to censor online speech, because publicly questioning climate alarmism is related to mass shooting atrocities.

Former New Zealand leader Jacinda Ardern joins Berkman Klein Center as Knight Tech Governance Leadership Fellow

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The Berkman Klein Center for Internet & Society at Harvard University is thrilled to announce Jacinda Ardern as its first Knight Tech Governance Leadership Fellow. Ardern served as the 40th Prime Minister of New Zealand from 2017 to 2023. The fellowship begins this fall.

Ardern is known globally as a dedicated and effective leader in pursuing greater online platform accountability and content moderation standards through the Christchurch Call, a community of over 120 governments, online service providers, and civil society organizations sparked by the livestreaming of deadly mass killings by a white supremacist at two mosques in Christchurch in March 2019, which killed 51 people.

“I am delighted to be formally working with the Berkman Klein Center,” said Prime Minister Ardern. “The Center has been an incredibly important partner as we’ve developed the Christchurch Call to action on addressing violent extremism online. Emerging technologies such as AI present huge opportunities to address online harms, but also challenges. My time with BKC will allow me to collaborate with the excellent team as we advance the work of the Christchurch Call.”

Read more: https://cyber.harvard.edu/story/2023-04/jacinda-ardern-joins-berkman-klein-center

The Christchurch mosque shootings which inspired this global censorship push occurred in gun controlled New Zealand. Despite New Zealand’s strict gun laws, a maniac somehow got his hands on a semi-automatic shotgun and lots of ammo. The 51 murdered Muslims were unable to defend themselves against the heavily armed maniac, because New Zealand’s strict gun laws forbid law abiding people from bearing arms.

In the wake of this horrible atrocity, New Zealand’s then Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern responded by doubling down on New Zealand’s gun control failure, and even more bizarrely, by attempting to link questioning climate predictions to mass shooting atrocities.

If you think I’m exaggerating, read Jacinda’s words for yourself;

On March 15, 2019, New Zealand experienced a horrific terrorist attack on its Muslim community. 

More than 50 people were killed as they prayed. The attack was live-streamed on a popular social media platform in an effort to gain notoriety, and to spread hate.

At that time, the ability to thwart those goals was limited. And the chances of Government alone being able to resolve this gap was equally challenging. 

That’s why, alongside President Emmanuel Macron, we created the Christchurch Call to Action.

The Call community has worked together to address terrorism and violent extremist content online. As this important work progresses, we have demonstrated the impact we can have by working together collaboratively.

As leaders, we are rightly concerned that even those most light-touch approaches to disinformation could be misinterpreted as being hostile to the values of free speech we value so highly.

But while I cannot tell you today what the answer is to this challenge, I can say with complete certainty that we cannot ignore it. To do so poses an equal threat to the norms we all value.

After all, how do you successfully end a war if people are led to believe the reason for its existence is not only legal but noble? How do you tackle climate change if people do not believe it exists? How do you ensure the human rights of others are upheld, when they are subjected to hateful and dangerous rhetoric and ideology?

The weapons may be different but the goals of those who perpetuate them are often the same. To cause chaos and reduce the ability of others to defend themselves. To disband communities. To collapse the collective strength of countries who work together.

But we have an opportunity here to ensure that these particular weapons of war do not become an established part of warfare.

Read more: https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/09/full-speech-jacinda-ardern-addresses-un-general-assembly.html

I can’t help thinking that allowing law abiding people to bear arms and defend themselves when the next maniac opens fire might be a better way to reduce mass shooting casualties, than silencing critics of wind turbines. Some US mass shooters have been stopped in their tracks by courageous, law abiding people who shot back. But Jacinda Ardern and her fellow travellers seem firmly convinced that more censorship, including censoring climate skeptics, is the best way to protect people from bullets.

Maybe someone from New Zealand can explain.

Note I am not in any way criticising the Christchurch police mobilisation in response to the atrocity. The Christchurch police reacted as quickly as anyone could reasonably expect, and stopped the maniac from reaching the third mosque on his hit list, by courageously ramming his automobile. The maniac was apprehended just 18 minutes after the first emergency call. But 18 minutes is a long time, when a heavily armed madman is pumping shotgun blasts into large groups of unarmed people.

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Tom Halla
April 26, 2023 6:15 pm

Almost all (92%) mass shootings occur in “gun free zones”. If Ardern was not a control freak authoritarian, she might consider that gun free zones were the problem.
Her reaction to Covid is a major reason to call her a control freak, rather than just a Brit wannabee bigot on guns. She seemed to have a desire to make people truckle to her orders, rather than a rational reaction to a virus.

Duker
Reply to  Tom Halla
April 26, 2023 11:37 pm

Australia banned the semi automatics 20 years before…..hence no massacres since

Indeed the murderer Tarrant an Australian, moved to NZ because of it’s looser gun laws

You are completely wrong about gun free zones . US states are where they are most common, far away more often than other countries

Tom Halla
Reply to  Duker
April 27, 2023 4:44 am

Mass killings in Australia were already so low the ban had no significant effect. The pre-ban tendency in homicides continued at the same slope.
Despite blather from Obama, the US is in the middle of industrialized countries as far as per capita mass shootings. Gun controllers routinely lie.

wazz
Reply to  Tom Halla
April 27, 2023 11:01 am

And Tom Halla in Australia criminals have ZERO problems getting whatever guns they desire.
A second point I want to make is that I have never heard ex PM Ardern protest a syllable at the huge death tolls from around the world from “religion of peace” violence. Decades of death tolls that make the Christchurch massacre look like a kindergarten tea party.

Tony_G
Reply to  Duker
April 27, 2023 7:52 am

hence no massacres since

Flat-out false statement: There have been 12 massacres since Port Arthur, which is the incident that triggered the ban. Total of 140 dead.

niceguy12345
Reply to  Duker
April 27, 2023 10:07 am

Did you notice that during the Rittenhouse trial, according to the press:

  • Kyle had a “semi automatic riffle
  • no biceps guy had a “pistol

It was the overwhelming position of the French press and also of a lot of US press: “semi auto vs. pistol”.
Semi auto is much more frightening. It’s almost an half auto. If you have two semi auto, can you add the two half to get a full auto? I mean two half chickens is like a chicken, right?

Simon
Reply to  Tom Halla
April 27, 2023 3:13 am

Almost all (92%) mass shootings occur in “gun free zones”.”
Yeah right. And pigs fly. You my friend are making that nonsense up. Fact up or f… off.

Jim Gorman
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 4:01 am

Name a venue that allows law abiding people to carry their choice of weapon that has experienced a mass shooting.

How many shootings in malls have been stopped by law abiding concealed carry non-law enforcement?

Defending one’s self and others should not be disallowed at the whim of government. Remember, without the fear of guns, criminals can use machetes, knives, and even ball bats with impunity. They can do so both outside of your house and inside your house. Are you good in a knife fight?

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Jim Gorman
April 27, 2023 6:40 am

“Are you good in a knife fight?”

Good point.

I see some of these criminals robbing and hurting people on tv and I just wish to see at sometime an old lady being robbed pull out her handgun and blast the hell out of the perpetrator.

The old lady probably wouldn’t have the strength to defend herself with a knife.

Happily, in my U.S. State, I, and anyone else who has not been convicted of a felony and is of legal age can carry a gun for self defense. We are not helpless in the face of a crazy gunman.

There have been old ladies in my State who have pulled out their guns and fended off their attackers.

Drake
Reply to  Tom Abbott
April 27, 2023 8:04 am

I just wish to see at sometime an old lady being robbed pull out her handgun and blast the hell out of the perpetrator.

It happens OFTEN, the MSM just refuses to cover those events.

max
Reply to  Jim Gorman
April 27, 2023 8:20 am

Hence the reason machetes and now even kitchen knives are being banned in the UK.

HotScot
Reply to  max
April 27, 2023 10:09 am

Carrying a machete, or even a kitchen knife without good reason e.g. gardener going to or from a job, or a chef doing the same, has always been an offence.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  HotScot
April 27, 2023 7:19 pm

Please define “always.”

niceguy12345
Reply to  max
April 28, 2023 7:23 am

A friend does cuisine, he has an official paper to travel with his kitchen knives (in a box) in France.

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 12:34 pm

As usual, any fact that doesn’t fit Simon’s agenda is rejected out of hand.

max
Reply to  Tom Halla
April 27, 2023 8:19 am

In WWII, American engineers were studying B-17s that came back from Germany to assess what areas needed more protection in future versions. It took them a while to realize that they were studying the damage that the planes were surviving, not the ones that were being lost. They did, eventually recalibrate their thinking, leftists never will.

Simon
April 26, 2023 6:23 pm

Remind me again Eric… what are NZ’s gun shooting statistics compared to the country that you seem to think have got it so right, i.e the US?

Before you answer, I’ll point out NZ have not had a single mass shooting since they banned semi automatics (April 2019), the US on the other hand…..

Last question Eric. What is the single biggest killer of children in the US? Shall I help you…. It’s guns Eric. Not road accidents, not cancer…..

So the US seem to be losing the battle to make the place safer by drowning in guns, or maybe you think they need more?

You want to lecture NZ about gun violence Eric, Save it. I’m happy to live in a country that has laws that mean our gun deaths are a fraction of the country you worship?

Oh and for the record the guy who did the shootings wasn’t even a kiwi, he was one of your lot….

AWG
Reply to  Eric Worrall
April 26, 2023 7:09 pm

I think gun violence is a nice distraction from the real problems that are caused by governments: the lock-downs that destroyed trillions in the economy, the mandated mRNA “vaccines” that are leaving a much larger swath of death and maiming than any violent nation, to start.

The attack on the energy sector is going to leave semi-isolated nations like NZ in a very large mess as the supply-chain crumbles and little nations like NZ may not have sufficient resources to play in Supply Chain 2.0 which is modeled on a globe that does not include Pax Americana or inexpensive and available transportation fuels.

Simon
Reply to  Eric Worrall
April 26, 2023 7:46 pm

I’ll note you didn’t answer any of my questions. And I think we both know why. The data in the US is so much worse than any other first world country. No other country even close and yet you still defend their horrendous gun laws. Nothing else to say.

Simon
Reply to  Eric Worrall
April 26, 2023 11:02 pm

Your stories are meaningless Eric. Yes there is violence everywhere but that does not justify allowing anyone and everyone to carry a gun. But if you want stories I have a story for you. Two young girls in the US accidentally got in to the wrong car in the US. The owner took it on himself to empty his “legal” gun into their bodies.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/texas-cheerleaders-shot-wrong-car-practice-rcna80366

Or the child who was shot going to get their ball from a neighbour.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/04/21/us-girl-6-shot-while-retrieving-ball-from-neighbours-yard/
F**king unjustifiable on every level.

The USA has a lot of violence because they have a large population..”
That does not explain the outrageous number of deaths per capita through gun violence. Highest in the first world. It’s simple really, as the number of guns climbs, so does the number of deaths….

“I’m a big guy, so plenty of confrontations have ended with the criminals being intimidated into backing off.”
That is just plain weird. I’m 62 years old any have never found myself in a position where I had to intimidate anyone or vise versa. You must live a different life.

jgmccabe
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 12:12 am

Don’t forget the number of accidental gun deaths. You touched on the subject in relation to your comment about the number of children killed by guns; over 1,000 children die in the USA per year because they’ve screwed up after finding their parents gun and started playing with it.

Simon
Reply to  jgmccabe
April 27, 2023 3:14 am

Yep, more guns means more chance to end lives, big or small.

Disputin
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 7:41 am

OK Simon, so what do you want to do about it?

Ban guns?

Simon
Reply to  Disputin
April 27, 2023 8:40 pm

Nope. Make everyone register and show a level of understanding when they do. No semi-automatics. They hav no place amongst civilians. A bit like the Switzerland Eric thinks is a model.

Tony_G
Reply to  Simon
April 28, 2023 6:57 am

Simon,

You have been given evidence that your understanding of Switzerland is incorrect: semi-automatics ARE allowed.

You also very clearly do not know what semi-automatic means. If you feel otherwise, please state for the record what you think it is.

You really need to learn more about this subject if you want to discuss it.

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
April 28, 2023 8:40 am

First off, Switzerland not only allows semi-automatics, but full automatic. Not that Simon knows the difference.

Really Simon, you want to limit guns to those that have to be reloaded after every shot?
You really want civilians to die, don’t you.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  MarkW
April 28, 2023 6:54 pm

Bumper sticker: “When semiautomatics are banned, only criminals will have semiautomatics.”

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 12:39 pm

And once again, displays his sense of binary thinking.
Tools are either good or evil, evil ones must be banned.
Doesn’t matter how many people use guns to protect themselves.
A small number of people use guns for evil, therefore they must be banned.

Tom Halla
Reply to  jgmccabe
April 27, 2023 4:49 am

You are pulling that number out of your nether regions. “Children” dying of guns are almost entirely late teenage gangbangers, not toddlers.

DMacKenzie
Reply to  Tom Halla
April 27, 2023 8:11 am

Very few young people are dying of gun violence, but many are dying of phentanyl. In Canada the government solution to phentanyl deaths has undertaken “safe injection” sites, free nalaxone kits, and free prescriptions to addicts.
On the other hand, guns that were the cause of a very few deaths are now subject to buyback (confiscation or imprisonment being the options) that only legal gun owners are faced with.
An analogy would be political virtue signalling of solving the phentanyl problem by forcing hospitals to turn over their supplies.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  DMacKenzie
April 27, 2023 7:34 pm

To put it into perspective, the official estimates are that over 100,000 young people are dying annually from opioid overdoses. That compares to 535 accidental firearm deaths, and 24,292 firearm suicides.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  jgmccabe
April 27, 2023 7:28 pm

… over 1,000 children die in the USA per year … after finding their parents gun …

According to the National Safety Council, there were 535 accidental firearm deaths in 2020, of all ages. Are you purposefully lying, or did you just remember incorrectly?

Why is it that gun control enthusiasts are so poor with numbers?

niceguy12345
Reply to  jgmccabe
April 28, 2023 2:21 pm

over 1,000 children die in the USA per year because they’ve screwed up after finding their parents gun”
Either these “children” have mental defect, possibly vaccine induced never shaken “shaken baby syndrome”, or the person who made up that number has such issues.

Even knowing very little about guns, it’s just unbelievable.

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 1:38 am

What do we do about all the stabbing deaths in London?

Ban kitchen knives?

How about drug deaths?

Class A drugs are banned for recreational use but Glasgow still has the worst drug death rate in Europe.

Why don’t we just go the whole hog and ban cars, after all the death statistics for road users is horrendous everywhere.

Ardern is proposing to ban free speech, and make no mistake, this authoritarian bitch would shut down WUWT given the chance. How many people will die from her misinformation about the climate?

Banning things, even guns, is not the answer to anything.

You wail and scream about gun deaths in America, which is the price most Americans are prepared to pay for their liberty from a tyrannical government. The concept of ‘self defence’ under the constitution is specifically directed at the government, not individuals.

In fact, banning peoples right to determine the direction of their own life (slavery) was the root cause of the battle between the north and the south in America all those years ago. It took guns and violence to stop that atrocity.

We have had our share of shooting deaths in the UK over the years, which highlights the complete failure of our strict gun laws rather than making a case for even stricter gun laws.

And if you really want to complain about weapons ownership, why not start with governments rather than individuals. Look at the mess the west has created in the middle east alone.

Or perhaps we should start with the mental health of a nation and the complete social breakdown in the black community with fatherless, feral children who routinely prowl the streets with gangland father figures.

Guns don’t kill people, people kill people.

Simon
Reply to  HotScot
April 27, 2023 3:20 am

You are just beyond sane. Knife deaths???? Tell you what. Let’s duel. I’ll have an AK 47 and you have your knife of choice.

We have had our share of shooting deaths in the UK over the years, which highlights the complete failure of our strict gun laws”
No it doesn’t. It says they work because they are a fraction of the US slaughter…. Were you seriously a cop?

Guns don’t kill people, people kill people.”
No… people who are unbalanced and angry who can get a gun are far more dangerous than people who are unbalanced and angry who can’t. It’s not rocket science.

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 4:24 am

Were you seriously a cop?

Yep, so I talk from a position of authority you have never achieved.

As usual you make a childish comparison, knife Vs AK47 when I have clearly illustrated the point; how do we stop the increasing knife deaths in London without banning kitchen knives?

Ban guns all you want and there will still be gun crime.

Our gun laws didn’t protect the children of Dunblane.

No… people who are unbalanced and angry who can get a gun are far more dangerous than people who are unbalanced and angry who can’t. It’s not rocket science.

Dunblane was perpetrated by an unbalanced individual. Why didn’t a perfectly sane person murder those children? They too could have obtained guns in the same way Thomas Hamilton did but they didn’t.

Nor did those guns leap out the gun club by themselves, they were taken ‘legally’ by Hamilton, which demonstrates the failure of the gun laws of the time. The guns didn’t shoot those children, the mentally deranged Thomas Hamilton did.

In which case, how about dealing with the root problem, mental health and, in the case of far to many black American children, growing up in a fatherless, single parent environment.

Or perhaps dealing with our own governments who glorify killing middle eastern men in sandals thereby normalising violence and death.

The simplistic anti gun mob like you see the symptoms and blame the weapons – knives, guns or bombs – when it’s nothing to do with them. It’s the deranged individuals, including our governments, who are the root cause of the problem, not the weapons themselves.

Deal with the causes, not the symptoms.

Simon
Reply to  HotScot
April 27, 2023 5:57 am

“Were you seriously a cop?

Yep, so I talk from a position of authority you have never achieved.”
Ummm not really.

Dunblane was perpetrated by an unbalanced individual. Why didn’t a perfectly sane person murder those children?
Because that’s not what normal people do.

They too could have obtained guns in the same way Thomas Hamilton did but they didn’t.”
They didn’t because it was illegal.

“Or perhaps dealing with our own governments who glorify killing middle eastern men in sandals thereby normalising violence and death.”
You are one sick puppy

“The simplistic anti gun mob like you see the symptoms and blame the weapons – knives, guns or bombs – when it’s nothing to do with them.”
Ummm it is when they use them.

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 6:17 am

Ummm not really.

Clearly I do as you have never spent a working life as a cop. Have you ever served your community in any meaningful way?

Because that’s not what normal people do.

Precisely my point you clot. 🤣

They didn’t because it was illegal.

No it wasn’t fool. Hamilton was a member of a gun club and was legally able to own those hand guns and take them home. Our gun laws failed because they are focussed on the weapon, not the person!

You have absolutely no clue as to the vetting process in place in Scotland at the time. A cursory inspection of a home installed gun cabinet, a criminal records check and a character reference. That was it. I was despatched to do the home inspections with no training whatsoever, as were many other of my colleagues. Unless the owner actually threatened me with a weapon I had no say in whether a gun licence was issued, and I was likely to be the only face to face contact made.

You are one sick puppy

You think it’s sick to object to peasants wearing sandals being bombed by western coalition armies?

You really need to examine your moral compass.

Ummm it is when they use them.

Once again, precisely my point. Guns don’t kill people, people kill people.

Simon
Reply to  HotScot
April 27, 2023 9:28 pm

Clearly I do as you have never spent a working life as a cop. Have you ever served your community in any meaningful way?
I’m not going to waste my time battling you for who has the biggest batton.

I’ll note a buy in the US shot his neighbour yesterday because he didn’t like the noise of his leaf blower. That’s what happens when guns are freely available. The sickos decide a noisy neigbour deserves to die and …. out comes the gun bought down the street.

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
April 28, 2023 8:46 am

And if he didn’t have a legally bought gun, he would buy illegally. Thanks to all the restrictions on legal purchases, it’s reached the point where buying illegally is easier than buying legally.
If you are stupid enough to think that making guns completely illegal will end illegal gun sales, then I ask you, when are illegal drugs going to disappear?

Secondly, if he didn’t have a gun, he would have chosen some other method for offing his neighbor.

Once again Simon demonstrates his belief that anything that can be abused, must be banned. Socialists think people are children who must be carefully managed by superior people, such as himself.

niceguy12345
Reply to  Simon
April 28, 2023 9:58 pm

People get killed in France over noise too..

https://www.epochtimes.fr/trois-hommes-mis-examen-apres-meurtre-dun-riverain-a-issy-moulineaux-2072679.html

Issy-les-Moulineaux : Excédé par le bruit de jeunes riverains, le voisin de 55 ans sort armé avant d’être abattu

Because of noise made by the “young people”, Didier went out with his 9 mm HK and a flash-ball; we fired, then was disarmed and killed with a knife.

And there are many stories not involving guns.

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 12:43 pm

Because insane people can use guns to hurt people, therefore guns must be banned for everyone.
Insane people also use, cars, planes, kitchen knives, pots and pans, etc to kill people?
Should all of those be banned as well?

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 7:45 pm

It is common that cops with experience dealing with the criminal element don’t share your viewpoint. Mostly what I see coming from you are rationalizations based on false facts.

I’ve asked you a couple of hard questions and your response has been to ignore them. That tells me that your mind is made up and you don’t want to be bothered with facts.

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 12:40 pm

One of these days Simon will come up with a example that actually addresses the point.
Alas, today is not that day.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 7:40 pm

It says they work because they are a fraction of the US slaughter…

Spurious correlation!

MarkW
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
April 28, 2023 8:47 am

Simon is a firm believer in catastrophic global warming caused by CO2, based on the same spurious correlation.
Simon’s logic process, like that of most socialists is to pick his position, then find or invent facts to support it.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  HotScot
April 27, 2023 7:39 pm

… which highlights the complete failure of our strict gun laws …

If someone is willing to commit murder, why would they be deterred by the trivial penalties associated with unlawful possession of a gun? Why is it so hard for liberals to understand that the definition of a criminal is someone who doesn’t follow the law?

MarkW
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
April 28, 2023 8:56 am

Liberals have the mindset that if the government orders something to be done, it will be done.
They find it incomprehensible that guns would still be easily available once the government bans them.

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 5:56 am

“Yes there is violence everywhere but that does not justify allowing anyone and everyone to carry a gun.”

The real discussion in America is not guns vs. no guns- it’s about where to draw the line regarding size and power of the guns. Americans will never give up the right to have guns- an historical fact. Personally, I don’t like guns- don’t have one- don’t want one- but I like to reserve the right in case I change my mind.

Dictatorships cannot survive in a nation where everyone owns a gun. Americans, historically, have never trusted authority- whether kings or Popes. Better to have authorities fear the public than the public fear authorities.

MarkW
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
April 27, 2023 12:44 pm

That there is violence everywhere is why individuals need to be allowed guns, in order to protect themselves.

max
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 8:30 am

Tl;dr “My anecdotes are more real than your anecdotes!”

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 12:36 pm

I love the way Simon’s thinking goes.
Some people can’t handle freedom, therefore no one deserves freedom.

HotScot
Reply to  MarkW
April 27, 2023 2:01 pm

The socialist way. Conform to the lowest common denominator rather than aspire to excellence.

MarkW
Reply to  HotScot
April 27, 2023 4:48 pm

That and tear down those who are doing better than yourself.
That way you don’t have to feel bad about your failures.

niceguy12345
Reply to  Simon
April 28, 2023 1:45 pm

Highest in the first world”
Yes, as other countries with more “gun violence” are … shithole countries.
We hear you. Even when you don’t say a thing.

Just write it down: SHIT HOLE.
You will sound less hypocritical if you do.

Simon
Reply to  Eric Worrall
April 27, 2023 5:01 pm
Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 8:01 pm

You totally ignore the positive aspects of gun ownership. That is not the behavior of a rational person. There have been at least three different studies in recent decades, with estimates ranging from several hundred thousand to over 2 million incidents per year where a gun in the hands of a ‘good guy’ has thwarted a crime.

I personally, and my companion, would have been seriously injured, if not killed, when we were charged by a free-ranging bull in a National Forest, were I not armed. I was able to stop the charge without killing or wounding the animal.

In your example above, it is clear that the person committed murder and should have been punished appropriately for it. End of story!

MarkW
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
April 28, 2023 8:58 am

As a socialist, Simon believes that the world is perfectable, all we need are enough laws.

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
April 28, 2023 8:57 am

This type of thing is apparently so frequent, that Simon has to keep using the same example over and over again.

As I said the last time he used this example. Simon believes that anything that can be abused, must be outlawed.

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
April 26, 2023 8:28 pm

It is typical of Simon. Ask meaningless questions, then whine when people ignore him and present him with facts he doesn’t want to acknowledge.

Duker
Reply to  MarkW
April 26, 2023 11:39 pm

Eric does exactly that in this thread , pivoting like a Clinton from gun violence to…..fentanyl

HotScot
Reply to  Duker
April 27, 2023 1:57 am

Fentanyl is banned in the US isn’t it?

But people are still dying from it.

What do you do now?

Double ban it?

Do you imagine deaths from shooting will stop in the US if you ban guns?

Judging by fentanyl deaths it appears not.

Last edited 1 month ago by HotScot
Simon
Reply to  HotScot
April 27, 2023 3:22 am

Do you imagine deaths from shooting will stop in the US if you ban guns?”
NOOOOO. But they will be lower like every other country that limits guns to crazies. AGHHHH!!!!

Jim Gorman
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 4:32 am

Now your approaching understanding! Limits guns to crazies …. and just how do you do that?

Simon
Reply to  Jim Gorman
April 27, 2023 5:59 am

Now your approaching understanding! Limits guns to crazies …. and just how do you do that?
We do it just fine. You need a licence to drive a car, you need to register to vote, but you can buy a semi automatic rifle like it’s a stick of candy. Sick screwed up country.

Tony_G
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 8:09 am

you can buy a semi automatic rifle like it’s a stick of candy.

Not true.

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 12:49 pm

And once again, Simon demonstrates that not only does he not know what he is talking to, he doesn’t want to know.
There are lots of gun laws in the US, the idea that anyone here can buy a gun like it was candy is so stupid that only someone who is totally out of touch with reality would believe it.
Either that, or he is just making things up again.

Tom Halla
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 4:53 am

Mexico has the sort of gun laws you advocate. Unless you are even more ignorant than you appear, you know better.

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 4:57 am

NOOOOO. But they will be lower like every other country that limits guns to crazies. AGHHHH!!!!

In other words, keep the guns out the hands of crazies. Law abiding, mentally stable individuals are highly unlikely to commit random acts of violence.

Talking as an ex cop of course.

Simon
Reply to  HotScot
April 27, 2023 6:00 am

Talking as an ex cop of course.”
So you say. Was there a reason perhaps that they asked you to leave?

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 7:24 am

Was there a reason perhaps that they asked you to leave?

The personal route, the last resort of zealous lefties.

I left of my own volition following many years of unblemished service.

But I guess you have been sacked from many jobs, judging from you jumping to conclusions.

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 12:50 pm

When losing, Simon goes for the low blows.
Pathetic Simon, even by your low standards.

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 12:47 pm

As usual, it doesn’t matter how many times an argument is refuted, Simon will keep using it.
Gun bans in those other countries are not the reason why they have low gun crime rates. The gun crime rates were as low or lower prior to the gun bans.
Gun bans have NEVER resulted in a drop in gun crime.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  MarkW
April 27, 2023 8:13 pm

And, there is evidence to suggest that gun control laws cause crime. The best example is that when a criminal can’t legally buy a gun, then burglary is encouraged. The criminal wanting a gun ends up getting it, at the expense of the original owner from whom it is stolen.

I don’t have the citation handy, but I have read that the burglaries that occur in homes in the UK occur more frequently in occupied homes than in US homes, because the burglars are concerned about getting shot in US homes. Therefore, the known prevalence of guns in US homes acts as a deterrence to burglary.

Tony_G
Reply to  HotScot
April 27, 2023 8:05 am

How about we start by enforcing the laws already on the books?

How many KNOWN straw purchases are never prosecuted?

HotScot
Reply to  Tony_G
April 27, 2023 9:48 am

Only semi automatic plastic straws are illegal…….

MarkW
Reply to  Duker
April 27, 2023 12:45 pm

No pivot, just proof that banning guns can’t work.
If it can’t work, then all you are doing is disarming the law abiding and making them more vulnerable.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Duker
April 27, 2023 8:04 pm

Are you suggesting that you think the problem is so simple that the only thing that has to be mentioned is guns?

Martin Brumby
Reply to  Simon
April 26, 2023 8:35 pm

“Nothing else to say”?

Great.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Martin Brumby
April 26, 2023 9:27 pm

We can only hope!

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Simon
April 28, 2023 6:49 pm

The data in the US is so much worse than any other first world country.

When trying to understand data, a common error is to not explicitly state and examine the assumptions relied upon. It seems that your major unexamined assumption is that the US is just like every other country in all respects, except the ownership of guns. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Culture, as formed by historical events and the religion(s), the ethnic subcultures and their different values, demographics (particularly the percentage of young males), population density and the ratio of urban to rural inhabitants, education levels, and the laws governing the justice system (whether the presumption is innocence or guilt when charged with a crime), all interact in complex ways. There are important differences in the mores between countries that have bowed to royalty for hundreds of years, and countries formed by rebels who broke away from their ‘betters,’ and in the case of the USA, even constitutionally forbid the use of titles of nobility. No two countries are exactly alike, hence their crime rates and types of crime will differ. It is a fools errand to try to blame homicide and suicide on a single factor, such as the prevalence of guns. Simplistic explanations are only compelling to simpletons. It also helps if they believe things that aren’t true.

The USA learned (Let’s hope we learned!) the hard way, that prohibiting things that people wanted and were a part of the culture, like alcoholic beverages, led to a situation that was worse than what was the rationale for Prohibition. If living without guns works for your society, fine. But, I don’t think that you should be telling other countries that they should be following your lead, implying that 5 million people on a big island are smarter than 330 million people on a big continent. It smacks of arrogance.

Last edited 1 month ago by Clyde Spencer
MarkW
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
April 28, 2023 7:13 pm

A much better way the examine the effectiveness of gun laws is to examine the area where the gun laws were passed, both before and after the gun laws were passed.
This method gets closest to the ideal situation whereby the only variable in your experiment are the gun law changes.
When done this way, you find that gun laws have never resulted in a decrease in violence or even gun violence rates.
In a few instances they have resulted in a small increase in such violence as criminals discover their intended victims can no longer fight back.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  MarkW
April 29, 2023 11:37 am

When done this way, you find that gun laws have never resulted in a decrease in violence or even gun violence rates.

There is one possible exception. The late-1993 Brady Act may have decreased the firearm murder rate from an anomalous high related to crack cocaine. I wouldn’t stake my reputation on it, however. Interestingly, when the NICS was implemented in 1998, the rate started to climb again. But, I would agree, that all the rest of the federal gun laws have had no discernible effect on firearm murder rates.

Tony_G
Reply to  MarkW
April 30, 2023 8:50 am

The comparison holds the other way too. As one example: when Virginia loosened its concealed carry laws to allow carry in more places (IIRC it was restaurants that served alcohol) all the anti’s were screaming about how there would be “blood in the streets” because of all the shootings that would happen.

Never came to pass, and, of course, they never admitted they were wrong.

Tony_G
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
April 30, 2023 8:45 am

No two countries are exactly alike, hence their crime rates and types of crime will differ.

Applies to differences between states, too.

Frank from NoVA
Reply to  Simon
April 26, 2023 6:58 pm

‘I’m happy to live in a country that has laws that mean our gun deaths are a fraction of the country you worship.’

Good for you. Just keep in mind that you also live in a country whose government can do anything it wants to you.

bnice2000
Reply to  Frank from NoVA
April 26, 2023 7:16 pm

An S.S will just bend over and take what his/her government tells him to take.

Seventh jab yet, I hope. 😉

Simon
Reply to  bnice2000
April 27, 2023 6:01 am

Five… never had covid and doing very well.

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 7:28 am

Five jabs, with an experimental drug which was rushed through an experimental, truncated clinical trial.

There is only one part of ‘experimental’ that applies to you and it isn’t “experi”.

DonM
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 12:05 pm

If you have only had five, you are waaay overdue.

If you want to remain ‘safe’, and are not a hypocrite, you should rush out and get your sixth NOW.

(are you going to get your 6th?)

niceguy12345
Reply to  Simon
April 28, 2023 2:28 pm

And I know someone double jabbed, then got COVID, then boosted, then got COVID again.
Studies suggest the vaccines increases the risk of COVID a lot for two weeks, then slightly decreases it, then has zero effect on COVID after a few months.
Total dud.
And that’s without going into the abominable side effects.

Simon
Reply to  Frank from NoVA
April 26, 2023 7:43 pm

Good for you. Just keep in mind that you also live in a country whose government can do anything it wants to you.”
You mean taking responsibility for its people during a pandemic? That’s right. The NZ’s government strategies resulted in NZ being only 1 of 3 in the world that increased its life expectancy during the covid years. I wonder how the US got on?

Streetcred
Reply to  Simon
April 26, 2023 8:01 pm

How many businesses survived? 🤔
The destruction of the construction industry in Australia 🇦🇺 is directly linked to covid lock downs.

Simon
Reply to  Streetcred
April 27, 2023 12:14 am

“How many businesses survived?”
Loads, the government provided financial relief for them. That’s what good governments do. they back their decisions with constructive action.

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 2:15 am

What about the cost the children of our generation will be forced to pay?

Frequently the refrain of people like you over the climate – what about the children?

The worlds population is now trillions in debt over covid and millions of business failed because governments doled out cash to keep people at home.

Streetcred’s question was the wrong one. It should have been how many businesses failed? And your answer could only have been the same “loads” despite the financial relief.

Other than in Sweden, of course.

Simon
Reply to  HotScot
April 27, 2023 3:23 am

What about the cost the children of our generation will be forced to pay?”
Ohhhh… you think covid didn’t come at a cost. Well there you go.

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 5:13 am

Describe the cost.

Lots of the elderly herded into homes and left to die.

Entire countries locked down with immeasurable damage to mental health, education and economies, to combat a virus known not to affect children and healthy adults.

Experimental ‘vaccines’ imposed on people by coercion, sometimes mandated, which were rushed through an experimental, truncated clinical trial.

Our governments have caused more misery than they have alleviated, and it remains to be seen if the ‘vaccines’ induce their own problems.

Simon
Reply to  HotScot
April 27, 2023 6:02 am

Oh my word….You say all that like they are bad things.

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 7:33 am

The elderly herded into homes and left to die.

Immeasurable damage to mental health.

Immeasurable damage to education.

Immeasurable damage to economies.

Experimental ‘vaccines’ imposed on people by coercion, sometimes mandated.

All good things according to Simone……

Leftist, murderous, authoritarianism writ large. Why we allow people like you to roam free beats me.

Graham
Reply to  Simon
April 28, 2023 3:45 pm

Simple Simon you are just like an itch.
Bloody annoying and you wont go away.
Yes the government did help businesses to pay wages and salaries but they had to print money and we are now all paying for it with rampant inflation.
The government took advantage of covid as they had a one o’clock TV slot every day which became compulsory viewing as we were in a nation wide lock down .
Great propaganda for a political party in power but their leader could not cope with the pace and resigned and will soon reappear at the UN. More power and no elections to worry about .

Frank from NoVA
Reply to  Simon
April 26, 2023 8:17 pm

‘I wonder how the US got on?’

Pretty well, thank you! Unless, of course, one had the misfortune of living in areas or working for employers under the jurisdiction of lock-down and jab-happy Democrats.

Simon
Reply to  Frank from NoVA
April 27, 2023 12:19 am

Pretty well, thank you! “
Ha ha. You obviously have a different definition of “pretty well.” Total deaths per capita the US came in at 15th. Worst in the first world. NZ came in at 111.

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 2:21 am

How’s the NZ economy doing?

As of September 2020:

New Zealand is in its deepest recession in decades, following strict measures in response to the Covid-19 pandemic which were widely praised.

The country’s GDP shrank by 12.2% between April and June as the lockdown and border closures hit.

It is New Zealand’s first recession since the global financial crisis and its worst since 1987, when the current system of measurement began. (BBC)

Simon
Reply to  HotScot
April 27, 2023 3:29 am

That was back in 2020. We, like all countries struggled, but our debt is a fraction of most after the pandemic.

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 5:15 am

Of course it’s a fraction. You’re a tiny country.

Simon
Reply to  HotScot
April 27, 2023 6:03 am

Sometimes you just gotta explain things…. per capita.

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 7:35 am

And of course you have definitive numbers to back that up.

Well, nope. But you demanded numbers from MarkW earlier.

Get back under your bridge…….

Drake
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 9:21 am

How would NZ have done if a a couple of thousand illegal immigrants, many with the China Virus, had been dumped throughout your country? The Brandon administration specifically shipped a hundred thousand into Florida in an attempt to spread the virus there, since Florida “COVID” policies of protecting those at risk and leaving everyone else alone was working so well.

The policies of Brandon and other like minded government officials, who think like you, failed miserably.

BTW: The 2nd amendment to the US constitution is meant to protect the citizen from the government. An armed citizenry can, in theory, throw off an abusive government, as the colonies did England and King George III.

The American Experiment, as it is called, was to form a government answerable to the people. This is something you would know nothing about, being as you appreciate having a nanny state to care for you, until that state can no longer do so, then what?

The UK national health care system is collapsing and now anyone with the funds is paying for their own care. This is, of course, the plan. Tax people for a service not rendered, then tax the services paid for out of their own pockets. And provide services to all the immigrants that have never paid any taxes.

So my solution to the Simon problem? As soon as a Republican president and congress is in power, ship 10 or 20 thousand illegal immigrants to NZ, no COVID or any other testing to be done. See how your Polio and other contagious disease rates change.

DonM
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 12:09 pm

“You obviously have a different definition of “pretty well.” Total deaths per capita the US came in at 15th. Worst in the first world. NZ came in at 111.”

In the USA, we generously compensated the hospitals/doctors for the Covid diagnosis.

How much extra compensation did NZ provide for Covid patients/diagnosis?

(it was a type of supply & demand skew in the USA)

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 8:19 pm

Because the elderly and ill were at greatest risk, without saying something about the demographics, those rankings are meaningless! Once again, you are being non-rational.

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
April 26, 2023 8:32 pm

Like most of the left, Simon considers citizens as children who need to be protected from themselves by people like himself.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Simon
April 26, 2023 9:40 pm

Our average life expectancy declined. A major difference is that New York City is a major place for Europeans to fly into. COVID was decimating elderly people in Italy especially, but throughout Europe. We really only restricted the Chinese. Some of our biggest loses were in the state of New York, mostly among the elderly with other medical conditions. We didn’t have the luxury of restricting tourists to prevent COVID from being imported, like NZ did. It was the US that developed vaccines, not NZ. NZ benefited from the US taking point, and taking the hits. You are unbelievably smug.

Simon
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
April 27, 2023 12:26 am

We didn’t have the luxury of restricting tourists to prevent COVID from being imported, like NZ did. I”
So are you saying restrictions work? I’m so confused….

“It was the US that developed vaccines, not NZ. “
Are you serious? It never fails to amaze me how ignorant and arrogant some US citizens can be. You can read the history of the global development of the covid vaccines here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_COVID-19_vaccine_development

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 2:32 am

When you shut down a tiny, borderless country to the point of banning its citizens from re-entering, and terrorise the remaining population to stay indoors with violent gangs of police officers, of course you’re going to stop transmission of a virus, that was known to only affect the elderly with co-morbidities.

The price the world pays, however, from individuals being coerced to take experimental drugs, rushed through an experimental, truncated clinical trials process remains to be seen.

This is the benevolent government you perceive, which bans guns and can’t stop gun crime, but is happy to violate the fundamental human right of bodily autonomy by forcing people to take drugs they know nothing about.

That’s what you describe as a responsible government.

Simon
Reply to  HotScot
April 27, 2023 3:30 am

When you shut down a tiny, borderless country to the point of banning its citizens from re-entering, and terrorise the remaining population to stay indoors with violent gangs of police officers, “

Haha ummmm…. I’m guessing you weren’t there. Violent gangs of sheep maybe…. What do you read to get this stuff?

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 5:21 am

That a tiny, borderless country completely isolated itself?

I was told it by New Zealander’s who couldn’t return to their country.

Police violence isn’t restricted to punching someone. Depriving an individual of their liberty is an act of violence, and NZ police enforced Ardern’s authoritarian behaviour.

When you want to debate the roles and responsibility of the police, try spending a working lifetime in the job then get back to me.

Simon
Reply to  HotScot
April 27, 2023 6:05 am

So you were a cop then?

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 7:36 am

You mentioned it before me……

Keep taking the ‘vaccines’.

Graham
Reply to  Simon
April 28, 2023 8:17 pm

You are as thick as a short plank. simon
Thousands of New Zealander’s were locked out of New Zealand as the government that Simon worships were so disorganized .
Not one of them has ever run a business but Stuart Nash had worked for Forest Products but they made sure that he was knee capped .
Covid restrictions were extremely hard on families returning from overseas and it was far to late when the government woke up and let people back to their homeland and isolate at home with covid tests before and after .

DMacKenzie
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 7:43 am

Hmm….so a Wiki article about various Ph.D’s that successfully spelled mRNA in their doctoral thesis with no mention of Dr. Ugur Sahin and Dr. Özlem Türeci of BioNTech who actually succeeded. Seems to be ignorant and arrogant…

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 9:13 am

I’m so confused….

Tell me something I don’t know.

I was comparing the US involvement to NZ, not saying that the US alone did everything.

It never fails to amaze me how ignorant and arrogant those are whose liberal blinders impair their reading ability.

It was almost impossible for the US to effectively close its borders, being as large as it is, with two porous borders and international organizations like the UN having headquarters located in NY. However, NZ is isolated with nobody able to walk or drive across the national borders. Restrictions did appear to reduce the rate of infection initially. But, it is a different question as to whether the loss of personal rights was justified by the less than perfect results.

From your linked wiki’ article: “… the geographic distribution of COVID‑19 vaccine development shows North American entities to have about 40% of the activity, compared to 30% in Asia [mostly China] and Australia, 26% in Europe, and a few projects in South America and Africa.”
I don’t see NZ mentioned at all.

The 40% NA entities, the largest commitment, was split between Canada and the US, from your linked article, thusly: “Canada announced CA$275 million in funding for 96 vaccine research projects at Canadian companies and universities, … A further investment of CA$1.1 billion was added to support clinical trials and develop manufacturing and supply chains for vaccines. On 4 May, the Canadian government committed CA$850 million to the WHO’s live streaming effort …” [The Canadian dollar is typically worth less than the US dollar.]

Meanwhile, “In the United States, the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority (BARDA), a federal agency funding disease-fighting technology, announced investments of nearly US$1 billion to support American COVID‑19 vaccine development and manufacture of the most promising candidates. On 16 April, BARDA made a US$483 million investment in vaccine developer Moderna and its partner, Johnson & Johnson. BARDA has earmarked an additional US$4 billion for development. It will have a role in other programs for development of six to eight vaccine candidates destined for clinical study into 2021… On 15 May, the government announced funding for a fast-track program called Operation Warp Speed to place multiple vaccine candidates into clinical trials by the fall of 2020 and manufacture 300 million doses of a licensed vaccine by January 2021.

And The Mouse That Roared contributed how much?

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 2:03 am

Are people not capable of taking responsibility for their own health in NZ?

The Swedish government trusted its people, consequently they didn’t wreck their economy like NZ did. Nor did Sweden have citizens banned from entering their own country like NZ did.

And if you imagine Ardern didn’t lie about almost every covid statistic you are as dumb as you seem.

Simon
Reply to  HotScot
April 27, 2023 6:12 am

consequently they didn’t wreck their economy like NZ did.”
One more time in harmony…..We didn’t wreck our economy
https://www.visionofhumanity.org/the-economies-best-positioned-to-recover-after-the-pandemic/

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 7:48 am

Judging by that websites standards, Nepal is doing better than NZ, which isn’t very encouraging.

niceguy12345
Reply to  Simon
April 28, 2023 2:34 pm

How many in the US have very bad health condition?
Do you think medical care is the primary driver of health? Or something else?

MarkW
Reply to  niceguy12345
April 28, 2023 7:17 pm

Simon likes to over simplify everything.

He likes to pretend that the only difference in climate between now and 200 years ago is CO2.
He likes to pretend that the only thing that matters when discussing violence is gun laws.
He likes to pretend that the only thing that matters when discussing health, is how much money the government spends on it.

Any fact that doesn’t support his case is dismissed out of hand.
Any “fact” that does support his case is accepted unquestionly. In fact if you do question his facts, you have just proven that you are opposed to solving the problem.

Streetcred
Reply to  Frank from NoVA
April 26, 2023 7:59 pm

And it does so with impunity. NZ criminal gangs have no problems getting firearms.

Duker
Reply to  Eric Worrall
April 26, 2023 11:42 pm

Ludicrous . You know very well John Howards gun laws pushed mass killings , note the emphasis, off the radar.
Rapists and murderers will still use knives, fists, baseball bats etc.
But Tarrant moved to NZ because of it’s looser gun laws at the time , so 50 Australian Muslims are alive.

MarkW
Reply to  Duker
April 27, 2023 12:55 pm

Just because the media no longer chooses to cover something, is not evidence that it has gone away.

Simon
Reply to  Eric Worrall
April 27, 2023 12:28 am

If a big, strong New Zealand gangster decides to rape a woman, she just has to lay back and take it. “
You mean like happened in a New York apartment store?

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 2:38 am

The fact you know nothing of the concept – Innocent until proven guilty – exposes your authoritarian nature.

Simon
Reply to  HotScot
April 27, 2023 6:13 am

I guess I’m basing my likely hood of guilty on the fact he boasts about grabbing women’s gentles.

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 7:50 am

Once again you reveal your profound ignorance. In a free speech society we are able to say what we want.

Guilt must be proven beyond reasonable doubt.

Last edited 1 month ago by HotScot
MarkW
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 12:57 pm

Not that he ever did, but heck, you have never been concerned with the truth.

He said he could, he didn’t say he did.

Tom Halla
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 8:59 am

The Democratic Peoples Republic of New York? The one that doubled down after the Sullivan Act was found unconstitutional in Bruen?
The whole f’ing state is effectively a gun free zone.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 9:08 am

Wishful thinking.

DonM
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 12:12 pm

NY gun restrictions …

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 12:56 pm

That would be New York City, a place where it is nearly impossible for someone without good connections to own a gun.

Your example does not support your case.

MarkW
Reply to  Frank from NoVA
April 26, 2023 8:31 pm

The problem with Simon’s thinking, is that he actually believes the gun laws are the reason why gun violence is low.
Reality is that in his country, gun violence has always been low. Gun laws made no difference.

Simon
Reply to  MarkW
April 27, 2023 12:28 am

The problem with Mark’s ramblings is when he has nothing to say he always starts with “the problem with….
“Reality is that in his country, gun violence has always been low. Gun laws made no difference.”
Gun laws make no difference… Knock, knock, hello, anyone home? The fact you can’t connect the dots here somehow makes so much sense.

Last edited 1 month ago by Simon
Graemethecat
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 1:48 am

Gun laws make no difference. See my post to you above.

Simon
Reply to  Graemethecat
April 27, 2023 3:32 am

yawn

Graemethecat
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 5:48 am

Translated: I can’t refute Graemethecat’s points, so I’ll pretend not to notice.

MarkW
Reply to  Graemethecat
April 27, 2023 12:59 pm

I would say that Simon is playing dumb.
Except he isn’t playing.

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 12:59 pm

As usual, Simon ignores any facts that don’t fit his agenda.

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 2:40 am

And yet your gun laws didn’t stop a massacre.

Knock, knock……

Simon
Reply to  HotScot
April 27, 2023 3:34 am

Ignorance is not a virtue scottie…
He was an Australian who planned what he did. That is very hard to stop. No one is arguing that we can stop all gun violence. But what you can stop is the angry opportunist.

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 5:27 am

He was an Australian who planned what he did.

Then:

But what you can stop is the angry opportunist.

He either planned it or it was an opportunistic act. You can’t have it both ways, Simone…….

Which amply illustrates your complete ignorance of the law and human nature. Like most on the left you prescribe what should happen without recognising the realities of what does happen.

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 1:00 pm

Doesn’t matter where he was from, the fact remains, your gun laws did not stop him.

Tom Halla
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 9:07 am

Great Britain had very low homicide rates in 1900, when the government imposed gun controls. Hatred of the Irish and the Labour Party were the motives, not crime.
Australia and New Zealand have no real reporting I have seen,but seem to follow British leads on keeping the peons in their place.

MarkW
Reply to  Tom Halla
April 27, 2023 1:01 pm

In the US, most early gun laws were enacted in order to prevent free blacks from acquiring guns.

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 12:58 pm

I have already detailed why gun laws don’t make a difference.
Reading for comprehension was never one of Simon’s strong suits.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Frank from NoVA
April 26, 2023 9:30 pm

For comparison, California and NZ have about the same size and shape, and a big nasty fault running along the West Coast. California has about as many people as NZ has sheep, and vice versa. NZ is The Mouse That Roared.

Simon
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
April 27, 2023 12:34 am

NZ is The Mouse That Roared.”
Why thank you. Modest doesn’t allow me to agree with you though.

HotScot
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
April 27, 2023 2:43 am

A trashed economy and a terrorised population is a success?

Simon
Reply to  HotScot
April 27, 2023 3:34 am

Yawn get informed.

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 5:29 am

I am clearly far more informed about a country I don’t live in than you are living there.

Lefty, rose coloured spectacles are not conducive to making decisions in the real world.

PaulID
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 6:51 am

He is far better informed than you will ever be because you refuse to see that your government does not have your best interests at heart

Tom Halla
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 9:09 am

Some people pay a dominatrix. You do seem a likely candidate.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  HotScot
April 27, 2023 9:19 am

I think that long-term they will realize it was wrong. However, that will not erase the consequences or compensate those hurt by the fascist suppression.

AWG
Reply to  Simon
April 26, 2023 7:04 pm

Wow. Where does one start?

  • The former USA has a number of cities that are larger than the entire nation of NZ.
  • FUSA is not a homogenous society, but has unrestricted open borders to criminals, terrorists and parasites from around the globe of every culture, ethnicity and tongue.
  • Many large cities have Soros funded DA who refuse to prosecute violent crimes
  • Eliminating the murder rates of six cities in the FUSA would have the remaining aggregate comparable to the most pacific western nations – we have a certain demographic that makes up the vast majority of violent crime.
  • The shooting statistics are conflated with gun assisted suicide, so deceivers use the words “gun violence” to fool people looking for self-affirming narratives to think this is all homicide.
  • The FUSA also has a disproportionate number of people on psychotropics that make them dangerous to themselves and others but policies refuse to provide treatment.
  • The Deep State and the Left have politically protected shock-troops and violent instigators that are protected from prosecution and have state sanction.

Not exactly comparing apples to apples.

farmerphil
Reply to  AWG
April 26, 2023 7:17 pm

Correction , No US city is larger than the nation of NX. I think you mean population.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  farmerphil
April 26, 2023 8:06 pm

I read it as population, but yes, he could have been clearer.

Duker
Reply to  farmerphil
April 26, 2023 11:44 pm

Plenty of places in Europe or Asia have conurbations as big as US cities.

How’s their gun violence deaths , including self inflicted and on domestic partners?

Simon
Reply to  Duker
April 27, 2023 12:36 am

Plenty of places in Europe or Asia have conurbations as big as US cities. How’s their gun violence deaths , including self inflicted and on domestic partners?”
I’ll look forward to this answer. Eric? AWG?

Graemethecat
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 1:50 am

Every year there are dozens and dozens of mass stabbings in China, many of which have occurred in schools. We don’t get to hear about them in the West, thanks to the rigorous censorship of the CCP.

Simon
Reply to  Graemethecat
April 27, 2023 6:17 am

We don’t get to hear about them in the West, thanks to the rigorous censorship of the CCP.
Ummm then how do you know. Are you and Trump best friends with Xi?

Graemethecat
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 7:58 am

I lived in China for five years, and have friends living there today. I was in Shanghai when a maniac murdered over a dozen patients and doctors in a hospital there.

The Wikipedia article will give you some idea. The list of massacres is far from exhaustive, however.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_attacks_in_China#:~:text=On%20August%203%2C%202022%2C%20three,in%20southeast%20China's%20Jiangxi%20province.

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 2:50 am

They export it to the middle east.

I have a suspicion that levels of domestic gun violence reflects western governments levels of exported violence.

If governments find it acceptable to routinely wage war against men in sandals, why wouldn’t that barbaric practice filter down to the individual on the street.

Government is merely a reflection of the populace that elects it.

HotScot
Reply to  Eric Worrall
April 27, 2023 5:31 am

I believe every household in Switzerland is mandated to have a weapon.

Simon
Reply to  HotScot
April 27, 2023 6:27 am

I believe every household in Switzerland is mandated to have a weapon.”
You talk complete crap sometimes.

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 8:13 am

Every Swiss man is required to serve in the military or in the alternative civilian service. (Swiss Confederation)

Soldiers can take home their personal assault rifle or their personal pistol, depending on what they’ve been trained to use in the army. (swissinfo.ch)

Killias also pointed out that automatic and semi-automatic weapons are not “generally” available. (swissinfo.ch)

Switzerland has had two mass shootings in the last 20 years. (swissinfo.ch)

Criminologist Martin Killias, who is a permanent visiting professor at the University of St Gallen’s law school, told swissinfo.ch that the background check people have to undergo to be able to acquire a gun is “very precise”. For example, although the Swiss army has a draft system, many potential recruits are not taken because they’re considered unsuitable.

 “They have to undergo a psychiatric test,” says Killias. “That test is constructed in such a way that it identifies the presence of a ‘risk’. It does not say the person is dangerous, just that they are not without risk. Then this person is not eligible to get a gun.”

In 2018, for example, there were 10,200 new recruits for military service; 53 were rejected in a pre-screening for potentially presenting a danger to themselves or others. (swissinfo.ch)

I qualified my earlier statement with “I believe”. My belief was, strictly speaking, wrong, but practically representative of gun ownership in Switzerland.

What’s more interesting is that the Swiss focus on the person, not the weapon, which is a common theme amongst my posts, confirming that it’s people who kill people, not guns.

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 1:04 pm

Once again, any fact that doesn’t fit Simon’s agenda, is rejected.

Simon
Reply to  Eric Worrall
April 27, 2023 6:25 am

It is becoming increasingly apparent Eric that you deal in half truths. In Switzerland you need to obtain a permit to get a firearm and you can not obtain a semiautomatic weapon. If you are ok for the US to have those safeguards, then now you and I agree.

Tony_G
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 8:14 am

you can not obtain a semiautomatic weapon

False: Firearms regulation in Switzerland allows the acquisition of semi-automatic, and – with a may-issue permit – fully automatic firearms

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_regulation_in_Switzerland

Tom Halla
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 9:15 am

Yeah, Swiss service rifles are selective fire, not semi-auto only. But you did not mean that.

Tony_G
Reply to  Duker
April 27, 2023 8:12 am

How’s their gun violence deaths

Totally dismissing any other violent deaths, of course. Guns aren’t the only way to kill.

MarkW
Reply to  Duker
April 27, 2023 1:03 pm

Compare gun violence rates before gun laws were passed to gun violence rates after gun laws were passed.
In no instance have gun laws reduced gun violence rates..

Simon
Reply to  MarkW
April 28, 2023 4:34 am

Did in NZ and Australia. Neither country had a mass shooting since we banned semi automatics.

Tony_G
Reply to  Simon
April 28, 2023 7:13 am

2014 Hunt family 4 dead
2018 Osmington 6 dead
2019 Darwin 4 dead

And as usual you totally ignore the 106 dead in massacres by other means. If guns were the problem you wouldn’t have all those deaths.

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
April 28, 2023 7:19 pm

As others have pointed out, your wishful thinking regarding gun violence since the gun grabs went into effect are completely wrong. There were very few incidents prior to gun laws going into effect as well.
Look at the entire picture, not just the tiny portion of it that supports your case.

Frank from NoVA
Reply to  AWG
April 26, 2023 7:36 pm

Nice summary, but you’re far too polite. From drugging active boys to make them ‘behave’ in class to destroying the traditional family structure, the Left is solely complicit in creating the gun violence they are conveniently using to disarm freedom-loving Americans.

MarkW
Reply to  Frank from NoVA
April 26, 2023 8:42 pm

Back in the 1950s, there were almost no gun laws in the US.
Kids could even take guns to school.

And there was almost no gun violence.
Today we have lots of gun laws, and lots of gun violence.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  MarkW
April 26, 2023 9:51 pm

I remember while in the Army, going on TDY to Point Barrow in 1967, to support some NASA research. While there, I picked up a Ruger 10-22 in the PX. I was traveling in uniform, but no one on any airline had any problems with me carrying my rifle onto the airplanes in its original cardboard box, in the passenger compartment, all the way back to New Hampshire. It was a far better world that we lived in.

Simon
Reply to  MarkW
April 27, 2023 12:37 am

And there was almost no gun violence.
Today we have lots of gun laws, and lots of gun violence.”
….. and shiiiitttttteeee loads more guns. See if you can make the connection?

Graemethecat
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 1:54 am

Er, no.

Every able-bodied Swiss adult male undergoes military training, and is required by law to keep his 7.5mm calibre automatic rifle at home.

Now tell me about the gun violence in Switzerland.

Simon
Reply to  Graemethecat
April 27, 2023 6:29 am

Every gun has to be permitted and there are no semiautomatic weapons allowed. If you are good with that in the US then we agree.

Graemethecat
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 8:03 am

The current Swiss rifle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIG_SG_550

Capable of self-loading and fully automatic fire.

Thanks for revealing your ignorance.

Tony_G
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 8:15 am

there are no semiautomatic weapons allowed

I don’t think you even know what “semiautomatic” means.

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 9:06 am

Every gun has to be permitted and there are no semiautomatic weapons allowed.

Eh? 🤣

Graemethecat
Reply to  HotScot
April 27, 2023 9:59 am

Like other Leftist weaklings, Simon has no clue about firearms, or how they work.

Drake
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 10:07 am

Every able-bodied Swiss adult male undergoes military training, and is required by law to keep his 7.5mm calibre automatic rifle at home.

Please read and refute.

I and my wife own more than 10 guns. I have only bought 2.

One, a Remington 1100 12 gauge shotgun was won in a raffle. My wife bought 4 $5.00 tickets and gave the tickets to me for my birthday. Smart wife! The rest are inherited.

3 Shotguns, 4 handguns, multiple bolt and semi-automatic long guns, 2 lever action long guns.

So in the US, there are now, after the Obama and Brandon presidencies, way more KNOWN guns that people. But in general, those guns are owned in larger numbers among families that use guns. Such as GANGBANGERS, who in general own illegally obtained guns, or families like mine who have a history of hunting.

NOW, Simon, please explain why so many of the gangbanger profile are already convicted felons who then are caught with firearms, 100% prohibited to them, who are then released on bail, or OR, and not put away until trial? And why do liberal cities not prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law?

Because if you took the violent criminals off the street, the gun violence would drop in the US, and liberals can’t have that until they have registration of all guns. And as the UK and Aus. , and Germany under H!tler have shown, registration leads inevitably to confiscation.

AND in the US the ATFE is keeping an illegal registry of guns and is being sued to delete it. But have heart Simon. Even if the court orders the deletion the leftists like you will hide the records somewhere, ready to be used when the left gets control again.

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 2:54 am

Demographically unlikely.

Before the concept of gun control was introduced in America (because the government recognised the opportunity for a real insurrection) barely a household was without a gun.

Today there are many gunless households, enforced by government which is still terrified of its population.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 9:25 am

Actually, the firearm murder rate for 2021 was the same as in 1998 and 1967. Meanwhile, the number of firearms in the population has increased substantially. See if you can make the connection? The situation is much more complex than you appreciate. Overall, our levels of violence track the percentage of young males, with transient spikes with the introduction of new drugs. With a graph of homicides and/or rates, the impact of gun control legislation is not discernible.

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 1:06 pm

Does the phrase per capita mean anything to your little mind.
And no, we don’t have a shit load more guns.
Will you stop making up shit?

Steve Case
Reply to  Frank from NoVA
April 26, 2023 11:40 pm

“…drugging active boys to make them ‘behave’ in class…”
___________________________________________

Thanks, (I guess) I haven’t considered that issue for quite some time. Has it morphed into the transgender insanity for kids?

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Steve Case
April 27, 2023 9:32 am

What is new and different is that females now outnumber males going to college. The suicide rate among young White males has increased significantly. Some of the mass shootings appear to be a result of an attempt to commit “suicide by cop.” Similarly, I suspect a not insignificant fraction of the opioid overdose deaths (>100,000/yr) are from depression and ennui.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Frank from NoVA
April 27, 2023 9:22 am

Yes, the Leftwing Media is largely responsible for the violence we see in the U.S.

Everywhere you turn, the Media is promoting violence in their programming and storylines. And that doesn’t even include the violence the Leftwing politicians promote on a daily basis.

Promoting violence as normal will cause psychopaths to think that it is ok for them to act out the violent tendencies they feel inside. And so they do. And then other psychopaths see this activity and it triggers them to violence, too.

The “Bad Boy” culture our Media has created, is creating a lot of bad boys. Give them a gun and look out! If they don’t have a gun, they will find some other weapon to use.

The Leftwing Media should stop poking the psychopath bulls. Bad things happen when you send psychopaths over the edge.

MarkW
Reply to  AWG
April 26, 2023 8:37 pm

When you control for differing demographics, much of the differences in gun violence between countries, disappears.

Not exactly comparing apples to apples.

Simon has no desire to make an honest comparison, he’s looking to score political points.

Last edited 1 month ago by MarkW
Clyde Spencer
Reply to  MarkW
April 26, 2023 9:54 pm

My research has shown a high correlation between homicides and males aged 14-24, modulated by the introduction of new illicit drugs like crack cocaine, temporarily increasing the rates.

Simon
Reply to  MarkW
April 27, 2023 12:41 am

Simon has no desire to make an honest comparison, he’s looking to score political points.”
Well give me some data that says I’m wrong. I say the US has the worst gun violence in the Western world and also that they have the highest number of guns per capita. I say they are connected. I say if you allow anyone including crazy people to get them, without any restrictions, including semi automatic rifles, sooner or later the crazy people do crazy stuff.

Your turn Mark tell me which part I got wrong? Data would be helpful.

Graemethecat
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 1:56 am

See my post above concerning gun ownership in Switzerland.

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 3:01 am

You don’t provide any data yourself. Why not set an example MarkW can follow?

Virtually every handgun sold in America, and worldwide, is semi automatic. A revolver is semi automatic for Pete’s sake.

What’s the problem with a semi automatic other than the US governments campaign against them has glorified them for the mentally unstable hell bent on mass shootings as their preferred weapon of choice.

In a class of children a semi automatic hand gun is at least as effective as a rifle but successive liberal governments have turned AR15’s into something they are not.

Last edited 1 month ago by HotScot
Gunga Din
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 6:42 am

Simon says, “Your turn Mark tell me which part I got wrong? Data would be helpful.”

Here’s some suggestions:
https://www.goodreads.com/author/list/6707841.John_R_Lott_Jr_

Tom Halla
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 9:18 am

Mexico is “the western world”, and has a much higher homicide rate than the US.

MarkW
Reply to  Tom Halla
April 27, 2023 1:11 pm

And ownership of guns by private individuals is all but banned.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 9:51 am

One need only look at Mexico (in the Western World). It has every law gun-banners want, with only the wealthy and cartels typically owning any guns. The actual murder rates would be much higher were it not for police and soldiers standing on street corners with automatic weapons. Yet, when tourists, journalists, and students are killed, it is often mass shootings that also end up being mass graves. I will no longer travel in Mexico.

What you fail to realize, probably because it is politically incorrect to talk about it, is that most of the US killings happen on ‘the wrong side of the railroad tracks.’ That is to say, the murders are geographically clustered, with some places, like Kansas City (MO) having firearm death rates in percentages of the population. Even where I live in the Midwest, my city rarely has any murders. The nearby, larger city, has frequent killings on the west side, with about the same population, same laws, and probably similar gun ownership. Gangs and drugs play a significant role — more so than guns because even our knife murder rate for the country (~1,000/yr) is higher than the total murder rate for most European countries, and about twice the number of rifle murders in the US, of which so-called assault weapons are a small fraction.

Your simplistic view of American crime is carefully cultivated by the Media, and you feel qualified to talk about it, despite obviously not researching it.

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 1:10 pm

Data has been given by myself and others.
Simon as usual, just ignores anything that doesn’t support his agenda.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  AWG
April 27, 2023 9:12 am

“Eliminating the murder rates of six cities in the FUSA would have the remaining aggregate comparable to the most pacific western nations – we have a certain demographic that makes up the vast majority of violent crime.”

Good point, very often overlooked.

Dave Fair
Reply to  Simon
April 26, 2023 7:35 pm

Simon, who cares what a little pissant socialist-run country like New Zealand does or doesn’t do? It plays no role in the international arena and soon won’t even be able to herd sheep because of its whacky views about CO2 and Marxist political beliefs.

Duker
Reply to  Dave Fair
April 26, 2023 11:50 pm

Mixed market economy just like US is. Plenty of state and federal intervention where there is market failure or just because they can.
In many areas NZ is more free market than US

For example they don’t bail out depositors of failed private banks, the ports and airports are private ownership. The agriculture industry in US is reife with state subsidies and government intervention under the usual rules of socialize your losses and privatise the profits

MarkW
Reply to  Duker
April 27, 2023 1:12 pm

In every case, so called market failures are always the result of government intervention.

Simon
Reply to  Dave Fair
April 27, 2023 12:42 am

Simon, who cares what a little pissant socialist-run country like New Zealand does or doesn’t do?”
Clearly you do enough to comment. Am I hurting your feelings?

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
April 27, 2023 3:03 am

Socialism hurts everyones feelings.

MarkW
Reply to  HotScot
April 27, 2023 1:13 pm

If it stopped at hurting feelings, it wouldn’t be as dangerous.

HotScot
Reply to  MarkW
April 27, 2023 2:14 pm

Forgive me, I was speaking in the abstract.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Simon
April 26, 2023 8:04 pm

Last question Eric. What is the single biggest killer of children in the US? Shall I help you…. It’s guns Eric. Not road accidents, not cancer…..”

Incorrect. The single biggest killer of children is other people. I would say people in medical garb (arbortions) has bad people with guns beat hands down.

MarkW
Reply to  Jeff Alberts
April 26, 2023 8:49 pm

Like most of Simon’s facts, this claim also has no basis in reality.
It’s almost as if he just makes it up as he goes along.

https://www.childstats.gov/americaschildren/mortality.asp

The leading cause of deaths for children is accidents, followed by cancer followed by homicides, of all types. In fact homicides are less than 1/4 as great as accidents.

Duker
Reply to  MarkW
April 26, 2023 11:53 pm

Your facts are incorrect when you include teenagers
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/29/health/us-children-gun-deaths-dg/index.html

Homicide is a very limited term, as death from misue of a gun goes under…..accidents.
Homicide generally means intentional

Last edited 1 month ago by Duker
HotScot
Reply to  Duker
April 27, 2023 3:11 am

Notably absent from the CNN report is the number of shootings using guns that are illegally held Vs those legally held.

And I’ll repeat my point that if a government finds it acceptable to export violence across the globe almost continuously since WW2, it rather sets the benchmark for its population.

Try dealing with the US governments penchant for violence before turning on its population.

Last edited 1 month ago by HotScot
Tom Halla
Reply to  Duker
April 27, 2023 9:21 am

Those are young adult gang members.

MarkW
Reply to  Duker
April 27, 2023 1:14 pm

Most of the so called teenagers who have been hurt by guns, are 18 and 19 year olds who belong to gangs.

Last edited 1 month ago by MarkW
HB
Reply to  Simon
April 26, 2023 8:15 pm

And not one for 25 years before that and there is a heap of stuff that is not public about this shooting This shooting was a setup don’t be a tool Simon

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
April 26, 2023 8:26 pm

If Simon was half as smart as he thinks he is, he would realize that merely comparing one statistic across countries is meaningless. There are thousands of differences between any two groups of people. Gun laws are only one of these.
Then again, he actually believes that all you need to know is what the CO2 level is, in order to predict something as complex as climate.

A valid comparison is to compare a single country, before gun control laws, and after gun control laws.
The reality is that every country that has gun control and low gun violence rates, had low gun violence rates prior to passing the gun control laws.

The reality is that gun control laws have never reduced gun violence rates. The reason is simple, good guys obey gun laws. Bad guys don’t. Good guys were never the problem, bad guys are.

Guns are and will always be ridiculously easy to get. Gun control laws only make it difficult for people who obey the laws.

Graham
Reply to  MarkW
April 26, 2023 10:40 pm

Absolute waste of your time arguing with a fool Mark .
Sim Simon dredges up rubbish that is mostly his imagination running wild .
He is in love with Jacinda ,in his eyes she can do no wrong .
My betting is that she will be given a sinecure at the UN where she can annoy us all telling us to reduce our emissions but she will keep flying around t he world .

HotScot
Reply to  Graham
April 27, 2023 3:18 am

Jacinda Ardern takes up leadership and online extremism roles at Harvard

(The Guardian)

In other words she can plot to impose her authoritarian beliefs on free speech over the internet having destroyed it in her mother country.

Graemethecat
Reply to  HotScot
April 27, 2023 8:05 am

The entire Global Warming Edifice is a lie as the truth never needs censorship or suppression of free speech or “fact-checkers”.

Scarecrow Repair
Reply to  Simon
April 26, 2023 8:26 pm

Nope, it IS NOT guns. The people who push that nonsense are the ones who count 18- and 19-year olds as children, and even they are wrong.

ETA a quick google for “cause of child death” found numerous sites listing cause of death.

All causes — 20360
Injuries — 12336
Motor vehicles — 4074
All firearms — 3143
Homicide — 1865

You are either gullible or a liar.

Then I googled “mass shootings per capita”.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/mass-shootings-by-country

Annual death rate per million population from mass public shootings

1 Norway (one outlier) — 1.888
3 France — 0.347
7 Switzerland — 0.142
11 United States — 0.089

Again, you are either gullible or a liar.

Final ETA — Simon, I am bookmarking your lies above, and next time I see another lie by you, I am replying with the bookmark. You can run, but you can’t hide from your lies.

Last edited 1 month ago by Scarecrow Repair
Vincent
Reply to  Scarecrow Repair
April 27, 2023 12:48 am

“Then I googled “mass shootings per capita”.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/mass-shootings-by-country
Annual death rate per million population from mass public shootings

1 Norway (one outlier) — 1.888
3 France — 0.347
7 Switzerland — 0.142
11 United States — 0.089″

Your selection of the above information from your linked article, presents an excellent analogy to the distorted reporting of anthropogenic climate change, where the focus is on the bad effects of any change in climate, and any good effects are ignored.

If you’d read the full article (and perhaps you did), you’d have come across the following.

“The median is considered by many statisticians to be better insulated against individual outlier events (such as the Norway massacre) that can skew results. This leads to a more accurate day-to-day impression and country-to-country comparison. Using the CPRC’s own data and more precise per-year population data from World Bank (the original study used only 2015 population data) to solve for the median, the more statistically sound analysis results in a notably different list:

Typical (Median) Annual Death Rate per Million People from Mass Public Shootings (U.S., Canada, and Europe, 2009-2015):

United States — 0.058
Albania — 0
Austria — 0
Belgium — 0
Czech Republic — 0
Finland — 0
France — 0
Germany — 0
Italy — 0
Macedonia — 0
Netherlands — 0
Norway — 0
Russia — 0
Serbia — 0
Slovakia — 0
Switzerland — 0
United Kingdom — 0

Using the median analysis, the United States is the only country examined that shows a propensity for mass shootings. The data itself supports this interpretation, as the United States endured mass shooting events all seven years, but the other countries all experienced mass shootings during only one or two years. Thus, in a typical year, most countries experience zero mass shooting deaths, while the US experiences at least a few.

Many other studies and articles also offer opinions or interpretations counter to that of the CPRC. For example, a 2019 paper from Econ Journal Watch, a scholarly economics journal, notes that the CPRC data included many events that would be considered military or terrorist actions, such as when 200 insurgents in Ethiopia attacked an oil field and shot 74 people. While these are undeniably tragic deaths, the EJW proposes that they are not what most people associate with the term “mass shooting” and should not be included.

Additionally, a 2021 BBC article used data from the FBI and the Las Vegas Police to point out that eleven of the thirteen deadliest mass shootings in the past 30 years in the United States occurred between 2001 and 2021 (implying that mass shootings are becoming more frequent and more deadly). A 2016 paper from the University of Alabama compared 171 countries from 1966 to 2012 and concluded that the United States accounted for only 5% of the world’s population, but 31% of its mass shootings.”

sherro01
Reply to  Vincent
April 27, 2023 1:45 am

Vincent,
Have you thought of laying blame on Hollywood, the people who find it hard to make a movie without guns?
Can you imagine that repeated TV shows with a part for guns might, over the formative years of a child, might have some bad effects?
Geoff S

Tom Abbott
Reply to  sherro01
April 27, 2023 9:34 am

The Media and Leftwing politicians have created a culture of violence in the United States.

Last edited 1 month ago by Tom Abbott
Gunga Din
Reply to  sherro01
April 27, 2023 10:26 am

California and Canada, where a lot of shows are filmed, have pretty strict gun laws.
Yet their prop rooms are filled with full-auto machine guns plus other “evil” guns. (Maybe even a tank or two?)
How and why does the entertainment industry get a pass?

Scarecrow Repair
Reply to  Vincent
April 27, 2023 5:54 am

I did read the full article. I also understood that they picked the method that gave them the results they wanted. I also looked at other search results. In both cases, I took the first results. You decided you preferred the cherry-picked and massaged results.

Gunga Din
Reply to  Scarecrow Repair
April 27, 2023 6:47 am

Nope, it IS NOT guns. The people who push that nonsense are the ones who count 18- and 19-year olds as children, and even they are wrong.”

Actually, in some gun control stats, they call them a “child” up to age 25.

Drake
Reply to  Gunga Din
April 27, 2023 10:18 am

AND I agree. No one under the age of 26 in the US should be allowed to vote.

Gunga Din
Reply to  Drake
April 27, 2023 12:47 pm

I was alive when the voting age was changed from 21 to 18.
I was not 21 but a bit over 18.
I was a fool at 18.
So thankful that I can look back and know that I didn’t vote for McGovern because I was so politically astute that I didn’t know I needed to register to vote first.
Swept by the tides back then. More anchored before the next election.
Maybe 25 would be a better voting age? But at least go back to 21.
More time to experience Real Life and and realize the Left’s crap is just that.
(PS Agnew and Nixon stepped down because of “the appearance of impropriety”. So why didn’t Bill Clinton, Barry Obama, Brandon, Al Gore, Pelosi. etc. resign. A hell of a lot more that just “the appearance of impropriety”.)

Last edited 1 month ago by Gunga Din
Drake
Reply to  Gunga Din
April 27, 2023 4:32 pm

And yet the left wants 16yo to vote but 18yo not to be full citizens re handgun rights.

They rightly know a 16yo should, in general, not be unsupervised with a gun. They know 16yo are numbies like all liberals and will follow their “hearts” and vote predominantly liberal.

MarkW
Reply to  Drake
April 27, 2023 4:58 pm

They also want grade school minors to be able to have gender reassignment treatments, up to and including surgery without parental permission.

Last edited 1 month ago by MarkW
MarkW
Reply to  Gunga Din
April 27, 2023 4:56 pm

The Democrats are pushing to have the voting age lowered to 16.
What Nixon did was minor compared to what the Democrats have done, both before and after.

The difference was the media. They bend over backwards to ignore any faults in their candidates (Democrats) while they exaggerate every fault, real and imagined, of anyone who opposes their candidates.

Rick C
Reply to  Simon
April 26, 2023 8:51 pm

Simon: Perhaps you should dig a bit deeper. The US gun deaths among children are dominated by inner city teens 13-18 in gang related violence. Then there are Young kids caught in the cross fire or hit in drive-by shootings. Almost all committed by convicted felons and minors who cannot legally own a gun. Then there are mentally ill or drug abuser parents who kill their own children, drowning, stabbing, beating and shooting all equally effective. Does New Zealand have inner city ghettos with 75% single mothers and where the primary business opportunity is selling hard drugs? Are NZ cities run by progressives who don’t believe in policing or sending violent offenders to prison? Do they put schizophrenics, drug addicts, violent felons back on the streets because they think all they need is a second, third, fourth chance?

Yes, we have a lot of gun related deaths in the US. The highest number is actually suicides. We also have roughly 10 times as many violent acts prevented by citizens who use a gun in self defense even though in the vast majority of cases the gun is never fired. Attackers are most often deterred when their target displays a weapon.

By the way, the occurrences of anyone being shot by a gun that is not being held by a person who pulls the trigger are very rare. I did read about a hunter who put his rifle in the back seat of his car and was shot when his dog jumped in and hit the trigger – and, of course, there’s Alec Baldwin. Just sayin.

PS: We now have about 100,000 Fentanyl overdose deaths/year in the US. Most all smuggled in by drug cartels through our open border with Mexico. Our current government does nothing to stop it. One might suspect that they are perfectly happy to see the kind of people who who are addicted to drugs kill themselves off. Heck they even want to provide “safe spaces” and drug paraphernalia for them at tax payer expense.

Duker
Reply to  Rick C
April 27, 2023 12:04 am

Self defence …that’s laughable as it very rarely happens , except in gangs where they blast away.
Gun violence still very common in rural and smaller cities as the US has a very confused municipal system that’s more like medieval Germany . Chicago for instance has it’s city core only 15% of the vast built up area that reaches into Indiana and Wisconsin
That FBI data excluded cities under 100,000 which are most cities

PaulID
Reply to  Duker
April 27, 2023 8:15 am

UM even using the CDC’s iffy numbers there are between 300,000 and 5,000,000 successful defensive uses of a gun yearly a basic search will show that you are just spewing sewage thinking it smells like roses and are trying to convince other of the same.

Last edited 1 month ago by PaulID
Tom Abbott
Reply to  Duker
April 27, 2023 9:42 am

“Self defence …that’s laughable as it very rarely happens , except in gangs where they blast away.”

Not really. Guns can come in handy even when you don’t shoot someone with them.

One night, many years ago, I was sleeping in my house alone, and had no dogs to alert me, and about 1am in the morning someone broke into my house and woke me up in doing so, and the criminal walked quickly to my bedroom door and stopped at the threshold, and about that time I cocked the hammer back on the handgun I kept on my nightstand, and the criminal heard that sound and turned around and ran just as fast as he could back out the door he broke into.

I didin’t have to shoot anybody, that sound alone had the criminal on the run. But what would have happened had I been unarmed? I think it would have been an entirely different story. I might have survived, and then again, I might not have.

The sound of a cocking gun hammer, in the dark of the night, saved both of us a lot of trouble. Maybe that encounter influenced the perp to change professions. At any rate, he hasn’t been back to my house. 🙂

Last edited 1 month ago by Tom Abbott
Gunga Din
Reply to  Tom Abbott
April 27, 2023 10:34 am

I think it was G. Gordon Liddy who once said, tongue in cheek, that the best burglar alarm was the sound of 12-guage shotgun being cocked. 😎

MarkW
Reply to  Tom Abbott
April 27, 2023 1:21 pm

A number of recent shooting have been ended by an armed civilian.
When seconds count, the police are just minutes away.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  MarkW
April 28, 2023 4:42 am

“When seconds count, the police are just minutes away.”

Good point. Sometimes you don’t have time to wait on the authorities.

Drake
Reply to  Duker
April 27, 2023 10:44 am

Self defence …that’s laughable as it very rarely happens , except in gangs where they blast away.

Ignorance is bliss.

You will not see self defense in the MSM. You will also not see it even in the local press, especially when the local press is liberal, NYT Wash Compost, LA Times, etc.

You may end up seeing it in the NTY, etc., when the leftist prosecutor charges the person who defended themselves. Think of the subway “shooter” who defended himself against a gang of thugs. Those thugs being the “demographic” mentioned earlier that is responsible for the majority of gun murders even though it makes up less than 13% of the US population.

He was prosecuted for multiple crimes but ended up convicted of only ONE gun offense, carrying an “UNLISCENSED FIREARM”, and was sentenced to a year in prison. Ridiculously over “punished” for a crime that constitutionally should not exist. Requiring licensing of “arms” is an abridgement to the right to keep and bear arms which the 2nd amendment says, “shall not be infringed.” If there were more Bernhard Goetz’s on NY subways there would be much less subway crime.

Two examples of NY subway shooters, you know, the bad guys, not the good guys.

https://nypost.com/2023/04/11/nyc-subway-shooting-that-left-teen-dead-was-gang-related-officials/

https://abcnews.go.com/US/timeline-york-subway-shooting-capture-suspect/story?id=84062990

Tony_G
Reply to  Duker
April 27, 2023 11:35 am

very rarely happens

It’s difficult to get exact numbers especially since many of those incidents go unreported, but the estimates vary between 55,000 to 4.7 million. The real number is certainly somewhere between those two. I don’t think that is “very rare”

MarkW
Reply to  Duker
April 27, 2023 1:20 pm

Actually, no. Violence of all kinds, outside the major cities is rare. It really is amazing how the places that already have the type of gun laws that you guys want, are also the places where most of the violence is occurring.

Dena
Reply to  Simon
April 26, 2023 9:03 pm

The biggest killer of children is abortion. Felons except in very rare cases aren’t permitted to own guns but somehow they get them and commit additional crimes. The real problem is morals. Religion teaches it however it is possible for parents to teach it without religion. Children need to learn to be responsible for their action and to value other people. Unfortunately progressive ideas abandon the idea of personal responsibility as the state will take care of everything. A few laws will never solve the problem. That is the easy solution that will never work. What will work is very hard as it has to take place on a personal level. If somebody fails the test by committing a crime, they need to be in prison until they learn the lesson. It may sound harsh but the truth is often harsh.

johnesm
Reply to  Simon
April 26, 2023 9:07 pm

One of the things the left wing here in the States like to do is mention our number of mass shootings (I’m not entirely sure what the exact definition of “mass shooting” is, more than two I guess), and then compare it with Australia, Canada, UK, NZ, and the EU. Only the EU has a population size like ours, and doesn’t have an open border with a narco-cartel state. They like to blame the NRA and 2nd Amendment. Yet we’ve had those for far longer than I’ve been alive. So what changed? From the rise of social media to the attack on police and our border agents, and now we’re seeing a rise in violence being carried out BY transgendered people, not against them, and unequal application of the law (think BLM and Antifa), the USA of 2023 isn’t the same as the 20th century USA that I remember growing up in, when even democrats were still a little bit sane…

Drake
Reply to  johnesm
April 27, 2023 10:47 am

The original FBI definition of mass shooting is 4 killed, not including the perpetrator.

The MSM does not use this definition all the time and often will include the perpetrator in the number killed if he dies in the attack.

Tony_G
Reply to  johnesm
April 27, 2023 11:40 am

mention our number of mass shootings

Which is totally disingenuous. Per capita is the only reasonable measure, and by that, US ranks #11:

Norway — 1.888Serbia — 0.381France — 0.347Macedonia — 0.337Albania — 0.206Slovakia — 0.185Switzerland — 0.142Finland — 0.132Belgium — 0.128Czech Republic — 0.123United States — 0.089Plus, that completely ignores any other mass killings by any other means, like cars, bombs, etc. Which is equally disingenuous.

Last edited 1 month ago by Tony_G
Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Simon
April 26, 2023 9:23 pm

NZ have not had a single mass shooting since they banned semi automatics (April 2019)

How many mass shootings did NZ have in the 4 years preceding the semiauto ban? They were rare events in NZ and Australia for a number of reasons, more related to demographics and differences in culture.

The last time I was in NZ (1989), our car was broken into and most of our things were stolen in the first two hours in Auckland. After reporting the theft, and deciding to do some sleuthing, I ran across a kid wearing my leather coat on a hiking trail near the museum. I dropped him with a right cross to keep him from running away, which he managed to do anyway after I told him I wanted him to come with us to the police station. The point of this is that later, in a conversation with the police and the two kids involved, all of them expressed disbelief that I had slugged the teenager. Yanks are more violent than Kiwis! And I’m a gentle person compared to many in this country. There are many who would think nothing of stabbing someone for stealing their property.

Most of the mass shootings in the US are gang shootings. The relatively rare school shootings get the headlines, followed up by conflated gang-shooting numbers to inflate the numbers and make it look like it is all innocent children.