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March 18, 2023 2:24 am
Alinsky’s rule number 7
“A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.”
So come up with something new:
Switching to hydrogen fuel could prolong the methane problem
This is because hydrogen gas easily reacts in the atmosphere with the same molecule primarily responsible for breaking down methane, a potent greenhouse gas. If hydrogen emissions exceed a certain threshold, that shared reaction will likely lead to methane accumulating in the atmosphere—with decades-long climate consequences.
Bla bla bla bla yada yada yada whatever.
so bloomin what. according to Wijngaarden and Happer whatever effect doubling co2 will have, Methane doubling will have about 10% of that value. Likewise also for Nitrous oxide. Therefore the current war on farmers and livestock is in fact a war against food production so that we may in future starve or bow to the Orwellian rationing plans that will be our lot. Anyone got any razor blades? I have been using mine for the last 2 months
Alas. It was descending into a mix of imitative activity at best («we must… uh… build a larger collider!» at least has a chance at new and meaningful results) and Trekkie inanity at worst for a long while, indeed.
Physics stands on the same funding and cadre infrastructure as the rest of academia. Not turning into monkey business even a little bit while being controlled by monkeys was a pipedream.
A lot of adaptive compromises are to be expected. I mean, the question here is “how would you like to explain why your work is important to… well, the kind of people who had a vote on the value of π?”
Last edited 11 days ago by TBeholder
I am not aware of any aware scientists kneeling at the altar of Dark Matters…
The Dark Mutterers are the point of the religious spear penetrating the collective consciousness. Much like that other Hollywood creation, Einstein, introduced us to moral depravity on grand scale, by introducing the concept of Relativity into casual conversation.
“Aw, it’s not evil, everything is just relative…”. Next thing we had Picasso and Pollack selling for millions while Jennifer Aniston et cie teaches our kids that prostitution is a viable career choice. Because it’s all just relative!
Where are we going with “dark” energy and matter, you think? A New World Order?
Do you want to retain these glad feelings, or?..
For example, this: https://archive.ph/VSb5R#selection-7629.103-7629.186
It makes a perfect sense if you remember that Harvard was always a theological establishment first and foremost. All those other guys of dubious piety were allowed there in part as a camouflage and in part for the sake of arms races. The moment both of those requirements withered, displacement of these troublesome non-essentials had to start.
The real problem is that it already turned almost everything else into second rate Harvard clones.
Sounds like your science has become your religion.
…which is only a problem for those who deny that religion is also a form of science…
The only real difference between thermodynamic engineering and a good catholic service, is that no amount of prayer has yet propelled a man to the moon, no atomic theory has put a man’s heart at ease after the tragic loss of a loved one. (paranoid goy)
The world would be more peaceful, if all the scientific-religious folks would kiss and make up.
not at all- the reason is that most sciences do not claim to be “settled” like many “climate scientists” say- can’t make a religion out of something not settled- science, religion, philosophy- they are all worth being aware of- while being cynical of all – I studied religion and philosophy when younger but got bored with it- the endless debates over trivia- science is much more interesting
“The world would be more peaceful, if all the scientific-religious folks would kiss and make up.” I still know people trying to tell me the Earth is young and evolution is a trick of Satan- but I remain friends with some- I just don’t bother discussing such subjects with them. No reason for the two to conflict- they have different subject matter.
March 18, 2023 3:19 am
Bureau of Meteorology – AUSTRALIA –
Long-range forecast overview — Issued: 16 March 2023
=======================================================================
For April to June, below median rainfall is likely to very likely (60% to greater than 80% chance) for almost all of Australia.
April to June maximum temperatures are very likely (greater than 80% chance) to be warmer than median for most of Australia, tending to cooler than median around Queensland’s Gulf Country.
April to June minimum temperatures is likely to very likely (60% to greater than 80% chance) to be warmer than median for northern Cape York Peninsula, and south-western, far south-eastern and coastal eastern parts of Australia, while below median temperatures are likely (60 to 80% chance) across the tropical north.
This forecast reflects the status and outlook for several climate drivers, including a return to ENSO neutral conditions (neither La Niña nor El Niño) but gradually warming tropical ocean temperatures in the eastern Pacific. This has led to an El Nino WATCH being issued.
March 18, 2023 4:42 am
SUBJECT: HUGE AVOIDABLE POOR-TREATMENT AND VACCINE-CAUSED COVID DEATHS – WORLD, USA, CANADA – DeMed
[excerpt]
I posted the following on 16Mar2023 on this medical website: https://forum.demed.com/COVID/posts/oYIBb1xKGgR2JtImpbTy
and on Twitter:
The death toll in the USA from the mismanagement of the Covid-19 illness and the toxic Covid-19 “vaccines” totaled 1.61 million to end 2022. The Covid-19 avoidable American death toll to date exceeds the total 1.1 million American deaths in all their wars.
Deaths attributed to the toxic Covid-19 “vaccines” in 2021&2022 totaled 98,000 Canadians to end2022, increasing to 145,000 by end2023. Justin, Jagmeet and their Liberal and NDP cohorts have killed more than twice as many Canadians as WW2 (44,000).
[end of excerpt}
Anyone can verify these horrific death tolls by just examining the two graphs included in the presentation – one for USA total deaths and one for Alberta total deaths.
Rancourt et al (Feb2023) independently verified my global Covid-19 vaxx-caused death estimate – 13 million to end 2022, and it’s far from over.
HUGE AVOIDABLE POOR-TREATMENT AND VACCINE-CAUSED COVID DEATHS – WORLD, USA, CANADA – DeMed
[more excerpts]
Alberta had NO significant increase in total deaths to 1Jul2021, because our physicians performed early treatment of Covid-19 symptoms. No excess deaths means no significant, fatal pandemic!
There was a large increase in total deaths for all ages after the toxic Covid-19 injections were deployed in early 2021 – deaths primarily caused by the toxic “vaccines”.
Based on Alberta total deaths and the increase post-vaxx, I calculated 12.9 million Covid-19-vaxx-deaths worldwide to end2022, increasing to more than 19 million by end2023. China is a wild card – not included; possibly India as well.
That death count was just independently verified by Rancourt et al (Feb2023) based on Israeli and Australian total death data, at 13.25 million to 24Jan2023 – the same as my total.
https://denisrancourt.ca/entries.php?id=126&name=2023_02_09_age_stratified_covid_19_vaccine_dose_fatality_rate_for_israel_and_australia
These total global Covid-19-vaxx-caused deaths will increase by at least 1/2 million every month unless we take action.
I am trying to make inexpensive, voluntary, over-the-counter “Ivermectin plus” (IVM + Nattokinase?) packages widely available for treatment of the Covid illness and the vaxx-injured.
This low-risk, high reward “Ivermectin plus” treatment will save millions of lives.
________________
Front-line Alberta physicians deserve credit for practicing competent, early treatment, such that Covid-19 deaths in Alberta to 1Jul2020 were no different from other flu seasons. Covid-19-related deaths started after the deployment of the toxic Covid-19 “vaccines” and to date have killed ~10,000 Albertans. At current rates, these toxic Covid-19 vaxxes will kill another ~4000 Albertans by end 2023, unless prompt curative steps are implemented – as I’ve recommended to this government since 20Nov2022.
The toxic Covid-19 “vaccines” have now killed ~98,000 Canadians, more than twice all the Canadian Armed Forces killed in World War II. If we continue as-is, and do not act to treat the vaxx-injured, total estimated Canadian vaxx-caused deaths will exceed ~140,000 by end2023.
Incompetent, late treatment of Covid-19 patients caused ~530,000 mostly-preventable American deaths. The toxic Covid-19 “vaccines” caused an additional ~1.08 million American deaths. The death toll in the USA from the mismanagement of the Covid-19 illness and the toxic Covid-19 “vaccines” totaled ~1.61 million to end 2022, and it is far from over. The Covid-19 avoidable American death toll to date significantly exceeds the total 1.1 million American deaths in all their wars back to and including the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, WW1, WW2, Korea, and Vietnam.
?w=1024
It’s time for Nuremberg 2.0!
Oh, ye gods, no! We need a real judicial process with punishment for the real perpetrators, not the blame-shifting and confessions extracted under torture of Nuremberg. Also spare me the hundred years of false history justifying your fake trial, as I’m sure any Covidiocy trial will be.
Although I am not totally opposed to a bit of retributive pain, especially with Gates and his fiends on the Rack…
…but instead we’ve gone full circle, looking for a computer model that escaped a laboratory by eating a pangolin that bonked a flying rat…
safe and effective” was a known falsehood
Yes, but still millions were sentenced to slow death…
I blame every single graduated medical professional that ever but once agreed to this. They should all be held responsible for every single case of harm. If you are too frigging stupid to have understood the con from day one, you are too stupid to be trusted with anyone’s well-being.
The only alternative to stupidity, is venality. So, which was it, Doctor doctor? Are you stupid, or did you knowingly kill children for money?
We need this answered, so we can start the punishments.
Why did the Covid 19 Advisory Table get dissolved?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-covid-19-science-advisory-table-dissolves-1.6563104
Anyone can verify these horrific death tolls by just examining the two graphs
Problem with the graphs is that the numbers have been faked since day one of the scamdemic. I remember the motorcyclist arriving at hospital sans caput, marked down as covid. Heart attacks, gunshots, suicides…cividiots every one.
This is pure Nuremberg stuff: Torture the innocent until they admit to the atrocities churning in the fevered brains of the real perpetrators. When we obtain “relief” from Baal Gates and his fiend Frauci, what will be our analogue to Dresden, Hiroshima?
I can already read the history books of tomorrow; “Millions were composted by the evil anti-vaxxers when they implemented their Final Solution against the Followers of Science.” Accompanied by vivid pictographs of the supermarket public entrance vaccination tents and unused hospital ships and empty hospital corridors where we collected all the blessed of the New Normal with Pfizer Inside(TM).
March 18, 2023 5:27 am
I saw this graph somewhere, but I am not sure what to think about it.
Can somebody help me out here?
https://breadonthewater.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/albedo1674915190404.webp
Does it mean that the changing albedo is making it somewhat cooler or warmer?
The albedo decreased which increases solar energy. See Dubal/Vahrenholt 2021.
It’s an upside down version of what Willis had in a (very recent) essay here – except Willis’ graph had actual Albedo on the y-axis but the same time period on the x-axis.
It came from CERES Sputnik
I remember ‘just eyeballing’ it and working backwards from an incoming solar power of 1,350Watts to get an extra 8Watts per square metre on the ground
I think it’s correct as it is, they’ve just mis-labelled the y-axis – which should be the percentage Albedo anomaly for that period.
March 18, 2023 5:28 am
Former President Trump says he will probably be arrested by the New York District Attorney on Tuesday.
This is an outrageous political hit job.
This will only increase Trump’s support.
Trump is leading all Republican candidates now, and that’s why the radical Democrats are going all out to try to trash Trump and keep him from being elected again.
If they can do this kind of outrageous stuff to Trump, then they can do it to you.
The radical Democrats will stoop to any low to gain political power. They will run over you like a steamroller if you get in their way. Their goal is to take our personal freedoms away from us. First up: They want to take away our ability to elect Trump as our president.
It’s time for Republicans and freedom-loving people to speak up. Or forever hold your peace.
Don’t worry. If your former lawyer hasn’t testified to you committing multiple crimes, and if you don’t have documents that obviously disguise campaign contributions as lawyer’s fees, then they really can’t do it to you.
Similarly, if you haven’t illegally taken government documents to your home, then refused to give them back for more than a year, then given some documents back following a subpoena, testifying that all documents were returned- only to have the FBI later discover top secret, national security related documents sitting right in your office- then they really can’t do it to you either.
Also, if you have not been caught on tape pressuring election officials to “find” you thousands of non-existent votes so that you can win an election you lost, or if you have not engaged in a conspiracy to send fake electors to Congress to somehow compete with the actual, certified electors, or if you have not pressured the Vice President to refuse to certify the lawful vote tallies from all 50 states, or if you have not ginned up a violent mob to attack Congress in order to prevent the lawful certification of a new President… then they still can’t “do it” to you.
In other words, if you are not out committing felonies at a prodigious rate, then you can sleep safe and sound each night, and no one will do anything to you.
On the other hand, if your personal lawyer outlines to the Feds all the ways in which you violated the law, or if you give a grand jury a reason to listen to 8 solid months of sworn testimony about your numerous crimes, like the one that just concluded in Georgia, then you may find yourself in quite a lot of hot water. That is how it works.
Chances are, you personally have nothing whatsoever to worry about.
Last edited 12 days ago by Reacher51
Why not? That seems more plausible than blaming the FBI for planting TS/SCI documents in your office that you also variously claim to be your personal property that you magically declassified using only the power of your mind and also taken to write “memoirs,” which would theoretically become one of two total books on Trump’s otherwise bare bookshelf.
The “blame Russia” defense seems like it might be easier for jurors to believe. You should join Trump’s legal team. Most of his lawyers are staring down felonies of their own, and they could probably use the help.
I meant it as an indictment against false narratives. The Russian collusion narrative for example, which was created and carried out by Clinton, FBI, etc., went on for 6 years for God’s sake before the truth finally dribbled out.
To wit, parents complaining about pornographic materials in their children’s school library could find themselves on a FBI/DOJ watch list or undergo a similar legal nightmare as Trump.
I know what you meant it as. However, you seem to have an odd idea of what constitutes a false narrative.
The Mueller investigation concluded that the Trump campaign knew about Russian interference in our election, that they welcomed that interference, and that they used it for their benefit.
The report detailed at least 140 points of contact between Trump and 18 of his associates with various Russian nationals. Mueller also identified 10 instances in which Trump actively tried to obstruct justice in order to keep investigators from learning more about his and others’ contacts with Russians.
Among other things that came out of that investigation:
Paul Manafort either admitted guilt or was convicted of: illegal foreign lobbying on behalf of pro-Russian Ukrainian politicians (Manafort had, in fact, been working illegally as an unregistered agent for pro-Russian interests since 2006), money laundering, tax fraud, lying to investigators, and lying under oath before a grand jury concerning his contact with a Russian associate during the 2016 campaign.
Rick Gates pled guilty to one count of conspiracy against the United States, as well as one count of making false statements to the FBI and to the Special Counsel about his status as a foreign agent for Ukraine (he was working together with Manafort on behalf of pro-Russian politicians).
George Papadopoulos was convicted of lying to investigators about his contacts with two Russian nationals and a professor connected to Russia. Papadopoulos lied about having discussions with them regarding the dirt the Russians claimed to have on Hillary Clinton, as well as about Papadopoulos’s attempts to plan a Trump campaign trip to Russia.
Richard Pinedo was convicted of selling bank account numbers to Russians who engaged in election interference.
Roger Stone was convicted of five counts of lying to Congress on matters related to the Trump campaign’s potential ties to Russia and the records he had of them, as well as one count of witness tampering, and one count of obstruction of a proceeding- all related to Russian election interference.
Michael Flynn pled guilty to lying to the FBI about his connections to the Russian ambassador.
Sam Patten (Republican lobbyist) pled guilty to failing to register as a foreign agent for various pro-Russia Ukrainian political parties. This included Patten helping Ukrainian oligarchs illegally spend $50,000 in tickets to Trump’s January 2017 inauguration in violation of federal laws that ban inauguration funds from accepting money from foreign entities.
13 Russian nationals, 12 Russian intelligence officers, and 3 Russian companies were also all indicted for their roles in trying to influence the 2016 election.
Those are all facts established in court or by the felon’s own admission.
In other words, your idea that the Trump campaign’s connections to Russia is some kind of false narrative is a complete mischaracterization of what Mueller actually found. Due to obstruction, Mueller was unable to follow all of the leads he wanted to find, and he was prohibited from indicting Trump while Trump was in office. However, as Mueller himself rather pithily put it, “If we had had confidence that President Donald Trump clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so.”
Additionally, your claim about Clinton is itself also a completely false narrative. The Inspector General of the FBI did a thorough investigation into the origins of the FBI’s probe and definitively found that the Clinton campaign had nothing to do with it. The investigation in fact started because the FBI kept discovering evidence of members of Trump’s campaign interacting with surveilled Russian agents.
Further to that point, John Durham, who seems to have been fixated on exactly the false narrative you just brought up, spent over two years and $6million re-investigating the same thing as the IG. He also came up with no evidence whatsoever.
So perhaps you might want to dive a bit deeper into what is and isn’t an actual false narrative. In either case, Trump is likely to be indicted on a very large number of counts. Lawyers for both the prosecution and the defense will present evidence, and juries will decide. The Stormy Daniels case appears to be the only one that Trump has an actual chance of beating. All of the other cases, however, are supported by mountains of evidence, and you shouldn’t be too surprised when the hammer starts to drop.
Last edited 12 days ago by Reacher51
The Inspector General of the FBI did a thorough investigation into the origins of the FBI’s probe and definitively found that the Clinton campaign had nothing to do with it.
I’m reminded of the “thorough investigation(s)” of Climategate that came to the conclusions that there was no wrong doing. An alternative description is ‘White Wash’ or ‘CYA’.
Funny how there are complaints about Russian interference in our elections when the liberal Guardian and Reuters are quoted by Yahoo more often than US news sources in the “US News” tab. Yet, giving a liberal spin to American events, prior to the election, by that foreign government is not considered “interference.”
The FBI’s inspector general found all sorts of problems as part of his investigation. He was, in fact, rather scathing. What he did not find, however, was that the Trump investigation started as a result of the Clinton campaign.
Durham, meanwhile, along with Barr, who appointed him, seems to have started off his investigations convinced that the allegations about the Clinton campaign must be true. He spent years investigating and came up with nothing. So, perhaps you might consider that the information you appear to be getting from the QAnon pizza parlor isn’t actually correct, even if you would like to believe that it is.
The point you are trying to make in your second paragraph about some unspecified country is incoherent. However, Russian interference in the US election was extensively documented by our intelligence services, as well as by the Mueller investigation, and is not seriously contested by either Democrats or Republicans.
I’m surprised you don’t understand that equating private British news organizations with a hostile government’s intelligence service disinformation operations is completely asinine.
I had simply assumed you were trying to compare like with like and couldn’t figure out the second government. My mistake.
It’s an empirical fact: the press in most “Western” (incl. Australia) countries is mostly Bolchevik, Stalinist and n@zi like. They protect oppressors. At best they are controlled oppo with some small segments of truth (Fox News).
In France, I don’t know one news outlet that isn’t anti France anti freedom anti Western civilization. (Le Figaro is a joke.)
“The FBI’s inspector general found all sorts of problems as part of his investigation.”
Did he also find out why one guy, all on his own, without assistance from anyone else, and without knowledge by anyone else, was able to con the FISA court into repeated illegal warrants. (And why that one guy got a simple, relative, slap on the wrist?)
Why did the IG phrase the FISA application assertions as simply ” … inaccurate, incomplete, or unsupported by appropriate documentation…” rather than stating that the FBI outright lied in is application?
Why do you think the IG is not biased any way?
They also complained about Russian interference during our very important Benalla scandal, which is multi layer.
Benalla cosplays police and strikes “manifestants” (agitators actually).
Benalla, the very personal Macron bodyguard is known to play videogames with the guy you provided a home to Islamic terrorists.
Benalla is one of the very few people in France, outside military, “French CIA”, and top police, to have Thales Theorem, the not-smart phone.
But according to some Belgian “academic” guy, that’s fake news. Even the parts confirm under oath, they are fake news and far right propaganda and RUSSIA.
So we had our French RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA episode, and I believe it traumatized the French society so much, the French are even more Russophile now.
Also, the French were always in love with Russia. Cause, you know, the Russia ladies are…
There isn’t any case that I know of of a single French man going to Russia and leaving Russia without a Russia wife. Not one. And I know of a lot of these cases.
There is no credible motive for Putin to interfere in US elections, esp. for Trump.
Also, if Russia is pushing for racial hatred in America, they can just fund CNN ABC CBS MSNBC.
If Russia wanted to make France more reliant on Russian imports, they can just fund France Televisions.
They don’t need no “journalist” Shevardnadze Fukushima fear p*rn Russia Today BS.
Also, what about Ukrainian made radiation fear p*rn?
You have just established that Trump tried to get good relations with Russia, refuting the whole Putin manipulated elections to make Trump win and Trump is not legitimate, thus admitting the whole charade, making the Mueller special whatever farce apparent and making the first impeachment an actual insurrection thus proving that the Democrat party as a whole is insurrectionist, illegal, and thus Biden couldn’t be candidate and thus Trump was never legally defeated even if he did get less vote on election day (and not later which is illegal to count) thus proving the second impeachment vote was illegal too.
…went on for 6 years for God’s sake before the truth finally dribbled out.
A common misconception, that. The truth never dribbled out, it was evident from the start, just like covidiocy. What is dribbling out now, are carefully chosen bits of irrelevance to make sure you don’t remember the stage play as it unfolded. Gives people like “Reacher51” some talking points to keep alive their narrative, when all you need do is go back to the original recordings.
Like that time Trump tried to be witty about Biden’s corruption in Ukraine, or the ‘missing votes’ in Georgia. Unless you listen to the actual tape, you may believe Reacher’s lies about Trump trying to defraud the electorate, so you forget how Reacher’s friends defrauded the electorate.
The problem is, apparently, Information Overload. Reacher relies on you to get confused, it is how it earns its living. Just go listen to the original recordings…
An important difference is that Biden was illegally in possession of classified documents for years, when he didn’t have the authority to de-classify them, and claims he was unaware of classified documents in his garage, thus not taking proper care to protect them, while sitting next to his Corvette.
You are misinformed. Under Executive Order 13526, issued in 1999 and still valid, the Vice President has the same authority to declassify as the President. This is written very clearly in the executive order. It is not particularly relevant to this case, however.Neither Trump, Biden, Pence, nor anyone else outside of government has a legal right to be in possession of government documents- classified, unclassified, declassified, or anything else.Although illegal, the government traditionally has not prosecuted people whom it believes accidentally or carelessly came into possession of some government documents, which seems to happen sometimes with very senior officials.Both Biden and Pence, upon discovering government documents in their possession, proactively informed the government about it and then immediately returned the documents. They also immediately instigated a further search to see if more documents could be found. For this reason, both Biden and Pence- although certainly careless and technically in violation of the law- seem unlikely to be actively prosecuted for this, unless new information comes to light.Unlike with Biden and Pence, NARA spent more than a year politely requesting Trump to return the government records that they had determined he was holding. Trump ignored NARA and refused to hand anything back.After their polite requests were stonewalled for more than a year, NARA were ultimately forced to seek a subpoena to recover the government’s documents. Trump eventually handed some documents back in response to that subpoena.After returning those documents, Trump, via his lawyers, confirmed in writing that all government documents in his possession had been returned, and that the Trump team had carried out a diligent search in order to ensure that no documents were remaining.As we all know now, the written declaration to the government was a blatant lie. There were, in fact, ~11,000 pages worth of government documents still at Mar-a-Lago, many of them concealed in Trump’s own office and intermingled with his personal effects.Among the documents that Trump tried to conceal were a number of Top Secret and TS/SCI documents, with TS/SCI being the highest level of top secret designation that exists.The Espionage Act of 1917 (18 U.S.C. § 793) makes no reference to security classification. It simply makes it a crime to steal or to be in unauthorized possession of information and material relating to or connected with national defense.The content of documents labeled as TS/SCI would, by their very nature, be considered as connected with or relating to national defense, regardless of whether they have classification markings.In addition to the fact that the documents Trump was concealing concerned matters of national security, we also additionally know that none of those documents were ever declassified. Declassification is a process, and that process includes informing numerous people, following paperwork, and ultimately expunging classification labels on the documents so that people will know that they are declassified. Trump clearly did none of these things. He did not declassify anything, and with respect to the Espionage Act, it wouldn’t even have mattered if he had. What matters is the information contained on the documents.The search warrant for Mar-a-Lago mentioned specific laws that the government had reason to believe had been broken:18 USC 2071, which covers concealment, removal, or mutilation of government documents18 USC 1519, which prohibits destruction or falsification of any documents or materials “with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence” governmental matters or investigations18 USC 793, which is part of the Espionage Act and covers gathering, transmitting or losing defense related informationTrump is clearly and willfully guilty of breaking all three of these laws.
Given that you seem to be a reader of this site, you may have observed over time how a strong sense of mindless tribalism causes the Global Warming Faithful to utterly disregard obvious facts, and to fail to see blindingly obvious and provable truths that are presented to them. There is really no need for you to imitate that type of behavior with mindless tribalism of your very own.
In the Mar-a-Lago documents case, as in many others, Donald Trump is clearly and obviously guilty as sin. This remains true whether or not you like him, his policies, or people who walk around with red MAGA hats and try to “own the libs.” It is true because it is true, and it remains true regardless of whether or not you would wish to believe it.
Last edited 11 days ago by Reacher51
Apologies for the formatting above. The bullet pointing and spaces between paragraphs seem to have disappeared altogether, leaving a mess of words. Trying again:
- You are misinformed. Under Executive Order 13526, issued in 1999 and still valid, the Vice President has the same authority to declassify as the President. This is written very clearly in the executive order. It is not particularly relevant to this case, however.
- Neither Trump, Biden, Pence, nor anyone else outside of government has a legal right to be in possession of government documents- classified, unclassified, declassified, or anything else.
- Although illegal, the government traditionally has not prosecuted people whom it believes accidentally or carelessly came into possession of some government documents, which seems to happen sometimes with very senior officials.Both Biden and Pence, upon discovering government documents in their possession, proactively informed the government about it and then immediately returned the documents. They also immediately instigated a further search to see if more documents could be found. For this reason, both Biden and Pence- although certainly careless and technically in violation of the law- seem unlikely to be actively prosecuted for this, unless new information comes to light.
- Unlike with Biden and Pence, NARA spent more than a year politely requesting Trump to return the government records that they had determined he was holding. Trump ignored NARA and refused to hand anything back.After their polite requests were stonewalled for more than a year, NARA were ultimately forced to seek a subpoena to recover the government’s documents. Trump eventually handed some documents back in response to that subpoena.
- After returning those documents, Trump, via his lawyers, confirmed in writing that all government documents in his possession had been returned, and that the Trump team had carried out a diligent search in order to ensure that no documents were remaining.As we all know now, the written declaration to the government was a blatant lie. There were, in fact, ~11,000 pages worth of government documents still at Mar-a-Lago, many of them concealed in Trump’s own office and intermingled with his personal effects.
- Among the documents that Trump tried to conceal were a number of Top Secret and TS/SCI documents, with TS/SCI being the highest level of top secret designation that exists.
- The Espionage Act of 1917 (18 U.S.C. § 793) makes no reference to security classification. It simply makes it a crime to steal or to be in unauthorized possession of information and material relating to or connected with national defense.
- The content of documents labeled as TS/SCI would, by their very nature, be considered as connected with or relating to national defense, regardless of whether they have classification markings.
- In addition to the fact that the documents Trump was concealing concerned matters of national security, we also additionally know that none of those documents were ever declassified. Declassification is a process, and that process includes informing numerous people, following paperwork, and ultimately expunging classification labels on the documents so that people will know that they are declassified. Trump clearly did none of these things. He did not declassify anything, and with respect to the Espionage Act, it wouldn’t even have mattered if he had. What matters is the information contained on the documents.
- The search warrant for Mar-a-Lago mentioned specific laws that the government had reason to believe had been broken:
- 18 USC 2071, which covers concealment, removal, or mutilation of government documents
- 18 USC 1519, which prohibits destruction or falsification of any documents or materials “with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence” governmental matters or investigations
- 18 USC 793, which is part of the Espionage Act and covers gathering, transmitting or losing defense related information
Trump is clearly and willfully guilty of breaking all three of these laws.
Given that you seem to be a reader of this site, you may have observed over time how a strong sense of mindless tribalism causes the Global Warming Faithful to utterly disregard obvious facts, and to fail to see blindingly obvious and provable truths that are presented to them. There is really no need for you to imitate that type of behavior with mindless tribalism of your very own.
In the Mar-a-Lago documents case, as in many others, Donald Trump is clearly and obviously guilty as sin. This remains true whether or not you like him, his policies, or people who walk around with red MAGA hats and try to “own the libs.” It is true because it is true, and it remains true regardless of whether or not you would wish to believe it.
You come across as being knowledgeable. Unfortunately, you are providing information that is wrong. Executive Order 13526 was signed by Obama on December 29, 2009, NOT 1999! That was long after Biden was a senator. No where in the EO do I see the vice-president named. Inasmuch are you are clearly wrong right out of the gate, I’m not going to rebut the rest of your claims. Your credibility is shot.
LOL. Mea Culpa. I think I missed a comma too. I guess Trump is off the hook.
Or, perhaps you are not going to rebut the rest of my claims because they are factual. Sadly for Trump, that is also why his defense attorneys will have a hard time as well in Trump’s many upcoming trials. Should be entertaining.
Last edited 10 days ago by Reacher51
Per you Item 4:
“NARA spent more than a year politely requesting Trump to return the government records that they had determined he was holding.”
Think about it a little bit and honestly answer … ‘Why didn’t didn’t NARA even think about the documents that Biden had? Why didn’t NARA even think about the documents that Pence had? Why didn’t NARA make a polite request to either Biden or Pence?
(Why did the FBI seemingly spend as much effort going after Carter Page and others, as the effort they spent ignoring the known Hunter Biden escapades?
It is the responsibility of presidents and vice presidents, upon leaving office, to surrender all government documents to NARA. It is not NARA’s responsibility to individually track every individual document throughout its working life and demand them back. The onus is on the people who hold the documents to give them back, as required by law.
NARA is obviously unaware of 100% of the government documents that have been created, and if they do become aware of missing documents, then they have the undesireable task of trying to track them down.
In the case of Trump, they were obviously became aware that he had taken documents with him, and they requested for all documents to be returned. They were clearly unaware of the total scope of the documents that Trump took, as evidenced by the fact that they initially thought he had returned them all. They later became aware that he must still have more documents. Whether this was through being told so, or whether they eventually tracked known missing documents to his last custody, I don’t know. You can research it and figure it out, most likely.
The fact that there was eventually a search warrant issued to recover additional documents, however, would necessitate that an informer testified to witnessing documents specific things in a specific location. So, at some point, somebody (presumably someone who had been in Trump’s office) informed the government that Trump was still in possession of top secret documents.
The documents held by Pence and Biden appear simply to have been lost and off the radar screen. I believe the DOJ is investigating both those cases, and theoretically more information may come to light, but based on the limited information we have, there seems to be no nefarious intent. Certainly, neither of those people, like Trump, are pretending on one day that the documents belonged to them and then pretending on the next day that the FBI planted those same documents.
“… no nefarious intent.”
You just indirectly answered my question as to why the IG phrased his report as he did. Because without ‘nefarious intent’ you get a pass (even though there is absolutely no ‘nefarious intent’ clause in the EO or the code.
In addition, you began with a classified/unclassified argument … then when (it seemed) that you couldn’t back that up, you just went to ‘documents are the property of the govt’. Are you done with the classified/unclassified concern? If you are, then we could move on to something else … like going after Trump for simply being in possession of govt property (maybe he has an oval office stapler too).
But, that still wouldn’t give the pass to Biden, that you seem to want to give him.
The stupid is starting to burn, and it appears to me that you are either trolling or genuinely incapable of being rational. So if you are genuinely trying to understand, then try to read carefully and comprehend.
Firstly, the IG phrased his report the way he did because he is not Lauren Boebert. He is an intelligent, well-educated man, and he phrased his report carefully and precisely, in order to be well understood by intelligent, well-educated people. The report was not written to be posted in all caps in the comments section of Breitbart.
Secondly, the IG identified a large number of unacceptable problems, and he also referred a number of FBI agents who were bad actors for disciplinary review. I do not know the results of the FBI’s disciplinary reviews or what became of the agents in question. I do know, however, that the head of the FBI, the head of the DOJ, and the head of every other government agency at the time were appointed by Trump and all reported to him. So if you have some kind of problem with how the agency reacted to the numerous failings identified by the IG, you should bring it up with the former Trump Administration.
Thirdly, I did not make a classified/unclassified argument. I simply corrected the assertion made by a poster who claimed that Trump had the authority to declassify, whereas Biden didn’t. That is false. I believe I pointed out explicitly that the ability to declassify documents is irrelevant to the issue. I also pointed out, for the sake of good order, that even if Trump’s former ability to declassify things were relevant, which it isn’t, he anyway clearly didn’t declassify any of those documents, so the point is essentially doubly moot.
Fourthly, I pointed out clearly that there are three potential felonies enumerated by the government in its Mar-a-Lago search warrant, and that Trump is clearly guilty of all of them. If you fail to understand that, then go and read it again, or ask a grown up to explain it to you.
Fifthly, I never said that I would give a pass to Biden. I said that I did not believe the government would typically decide to prosecute someone for illegally possessing government documents if that person did not appear to have willfully taken them. Whether I agree with that position is a different, and altogether irrelevant question.
Given what I believe to be the government’s standard for prosecution, neither Biden nor Pence appear likely at the moment to face charges. Trump likely would not be facing charges either, had he simply returned the government’s property when requested.
However, after something like a year and half of refusing to return the government’s property, being unresponsive to a subpoena, issuing false attestations to the government, and being found with some of the nation’s most highly sensitive secrets sitting around in his office, the government more or less has to prosecute (if they let that precedent stand, then there will effectively be no way ever to prosecute anyone for stealing documents). So Trump is well and truly screwed, and he really has no one but himself to blame.
Being Trump, however, he will no doubt continue to blame everyone other than himself.
Last edited 10 days ago by Reacher51
“… the Vice President has the same authority to declassify as the President. This is written very clearly in the executive order.”
It appears that you think that Biden had the authority to (and did, directly or indirectly) classify the documents that he had in his possession; And therefore he had the authority to declassify the same.
Is this what you are saying?
The VP has the same original classification authority as the President, as per Executive Order 13526.
If you believe that I said Biden either classified or declassified the documents in his possession, then you should work on your reading comprehension.
As mentioned above, all documents are required to be returned to the government, regardless of classification, and it is criminal to steal documents containing information that can damage national security, regardless of classification.
No, doofus. The Presidential Records Act is the arbiter of what is to be returned, and the answer to that question is everything.
A further answer to that question, in Trump’s case, is given by the Espionage Act, which is essentialy communicating that highly sensitive national security related documents should be returned ASAP if you don’t want to rot in prison for a very, very long time.
“The Presidential Records Act is the arbiter of what is to be returned, and the answer to that question is everything.”
Not if these are personal copies of declassified files.
Also, yet no evidence of “highly sensitive national security related documents” found there; 50 former something something need to do something.
O.K., so it does seem that you are past the classified/unclassified meme.
(although you still misunderstand what can be classified/unclassified, an by whom, and when it is required to be unclassified (even though this requirement has been neglected/massaged by the feds since it’s inception the requirement is still there.))
So, you are wanting to move on the the ‘stapler and paper clips’ concept.
None of the documents at Mar-a-Lago can damage national security. Granted, someone could even argue ‘national security’ as it applies to what brand of Depends Biden uses, or the time of day he takes his naps; ‘national security’ can be subjectively applied to about anything. (Even the documents that the FBI laid out on the floor, took pictures of, and distributed to the news media … but I am guessing that the FBI IG will not find that that action & those documents were not a risk to national security).
Last edited 10 days ago by DonM
The federal government clearly does not appear to agree with your assessment of whether their documents labeled “Top Secret / Sensitive Compartmented Information” can damage national security. That is why they only allow a small handful of people even to look at those documents, why they whisked them back to the special secure locations where they are supposed to reside, and why their discovery at Mar-a-Lago set off a frantic review of what secrets may have leaked out and how much our national security infrastructure may have been damaged.
In other words, the people who understand the contents of these documents believe them to be capable of damaging national security. But that is probably because they aren’t retarded.
I’m sorry to say that your made up “What counts as gov material is determined by the former President” law is trumped (pun intended) by actual United States law, which says something utterly different.
And those of us who don’t believe in lizard people or pedophiliac pizza parlors have plenty of indication of whether the content was in any way important (hint: an important clue can be found by looking at the “TOP SECRET” labels on the documents).
Good luck with third grade!
And we still have zero idea what was in these documents Trump took. (We even had to hear the insinuations that these were nuke related.)
There was a rumor that these would be valuable documents that one could possibly sell, f.ex. to Saudis.
(Also, we had to listen to rumors that the Trumps sold US fission tech to Saudis, as if building fission reactors was a secret art. France bought that same technology a long time ago. There is no secret.)
How do you know these doc have ANY nat sec implication?
If these are related with “RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA” (interference), they clearly have zero international or military implication.
Yes, retard. There were highly classified documents found amongst the many documents Trump stole. Some of these documents are so highly classified that only a handful of people are allowed even to view them. They are also so highly sensitive and important to national security that Trump’s theft of them violates the Espionage Act, even if Trump had theoretically been stupid or crazy enough to declassify them.
Are you sure your Mom is ok with you using the internet?
Documents are to be declassified as soon as the classification is not needed anymore (Sec. 3.1. Authority for Declassification. (a) Information shall be declassified as soon as it no longer meets the standards for classification under this order.)
This section of the EO is completely ignored by all agencies and individuals. They simply classify things out of ease and expediency and safety factor … and then forget about them.
Essentially, Trump (or the Executive Office) was required to declassify.
Tell me about the declassification process. What is required, outside of simply saying so. Does one have to write a memo? Does one have to date the memo? Does it need a witness?
He had the authority … the question is ‘did he exercise the authority?’
The items that are going to get Trump into the most trouble are the TS/SCI docments he stole. Those documents, which contain our country’s most closely guarded secrets, absolutely meet the standards for classification. They are not even supposed to be taken out of secure viewing facilities, and no one is “required” to declassify them. They also fall into the purview of the Espionage Act, which Trump appears to be deliberately guilty of violating.
After months of insinuation that President Trump took the IKEA manual for nuke assembly, in a form that could be sold to anyone, incl. the Saudis, or other US military documentation, we still have no idea what Trump really had in his possession (that US junta gov later stole from President Trump).
Why doesn’t the current US junta wants to tell what these documents really were about?
Yes, they are required to be declassified at some point under the EO that you referenced. (when the classification is no longer needed; or at some point out in the future (eg 50 yrs, 75 yrs))
Also note that biden had TS/SCI documents in his garage.
So, now it appears that you are back to the classified documents as the big deal; as well as, the govt property angle.
Keep digging, keep watching/listening to NPR. Don’t be too disappointed when there isn’t significant negative fallout for Trump. (or, cross your fingers and hope that they continue to treat him differently than Clinton/Biden/Obama).
A few documents found on Biden’s properties were labeled Top Secret. I am not aware that any were labeled TS/SCI, which is something different, and don’t believe that assertion is true.
If it were true, however, it would not help Trump in any way. It might or might not make things worse for Biden, but it will have no bearing whatsoever on Trump’s case, which is completely open and shut.
Following arguments is not your forte.
Last edited 10 days ago by Reacher51
Putin’s political opponents fall out of windows. You wouldn’t want to see what they look like afterwards.
Flynn was prosecuted for engaging in diplomacy as a private citizen (via the Russian ambassador) which is a crime, and then lying about it to the FBI, which is a crime. He appears also to have possibly been an unregistered foreign agent for Turkey, but the government dropped that investigation when Flynn began cooperating as a witness.
The other people were prosecuted for a slew of crimes, as I summarized above. They were variously working as unregistered foreign agents of Russian interests, engaging with Russian agents and Wikileaks to try to get dirt on Hillary Clinton, money laundering, tax evasion, obstructing justice, etc.
While Biden claimed he was President elect when he was not
While Biden claimed he had make believe “Office of the President-Elect”
Trump was actually President elect when the events you are babbling about took place.
Trump was called by foreign administration.
Trump wasn’t a random citizen.
But if he was, then what?
A random citizen could make a peace plea.
So you are contradicting yourself.
Not yet. But if the Inner Party will have actual power, that’s where all struggle for power will happen.
You know what happened to Robespierre, right? He wasn’t killed by counter-revolutionaries or other “oldthinkers who unbellyfeel”, but by his former friends and colleagues. And then the next big bunch of ghoulish types celebrated power grab and oops, somehow found themselves behind barbed wire, the survivors were whining “it was a mistake, we wuz honest Leninists…” and couldn’t get why everyone cheered.
Good night, sweet dreams, etc.
He (allegedly)broke campaign finance law by falsely recording the payment as an expense. I don’t make the laws but they are there. You have to ask why he would do it and you don’t have to dig too deep. Trump had garnered strong support from the conservative Christian right. That support at the time looked like being an enormous help to him and as it turned out was critical in his win. (Let’s not forget he got fewer votes than Clinton)They may not have been so keen to vote for an adulterous man who was bonking porn stars while his wife was pregnant…. Just saying.
You can read all about it here https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-we-know-about-trumps-legal-troubles/
If you are going to say this is not a slam dunk, then I agree. The case against him trying to steal the election in Georgia, where he is taped doing it is the best chance he will be convicted of a serious crime. I’m not sure how your team will spin that, but given it is a republican governor he is trying to influence and it is all recorded, it’s hard to see how he can get off.
“Do you agree that for all these years, Dems never accepted Trump as the perfectly elected President? “
No as I recall Hillary Clinton phoned him on the night to congratulate Trump. That’s what civil people do. She loathed the man but still had the balls to grit her teeth and move on, unlike man-child Trump, who we are still waiting to man up and admit he lost.
“Why would Trump accept Biden victory, when we all saw Trump victory on TV?”
Yes well I don’t know what channel you were watching, but maybe time for a new telly, because on every other one on the planet, Biden won.
Last edited 7 days ago by Simon
Yes because the Chosen People (those with non American sounding names) shall never be involved in any conspiracy theory, unlike the Koch, right?
Some can be accused of anything, for others, it’s the Jews who are accused, hence n@zism, right?
Sorry, NO.
If you support that theory, it means you basically validate the Daily Stormer.
That’s my metaphorical hill.
Nobody shall be more protected from theories involving LASERs.
Also, don’t you believe that lasers can be used to carry loads of energy? Or other electromagnetic devices?
Don’t you believe that you can use these from space?
Do you agree that US fed agencies are lying to the American people?
So now you have to promise to never again use Anti Defamation League supremacist propaganda ever again.
And any of this can possibly change anything exactly how?
«The mob behind Professional Wrestling is likely to hit that one dude who embarrassed them by showing everyone what kind of frauds they are (which people who paid attention predicted years ago). So let’s… double down on buying tickets and merchandise of the team he was on, and also advertise the whole thing is for free. This will show those underhanded dudes. Because Professional Wrestling is all totally real». It was supposed to make sense?
If they are dumb enough to do it, it will probably backfire. Americans have always come to the aid of the under dog. Such treatment of a former president is unprecedented and will reinforce the view that ‘The Swamp’ is exercising raw power under the guise of the Rule of Law.
The recent revelations, without any action, of Chinese money going to the Biden family, and Biden having lots of classified documents, with less reason for having them and kept less secure than Trump, suggests selective enforcement.
“If they are dumb enough to do it, it will probably backfire.”
It is not a question of dumb or not. If Trump has broken the law he should be prosecuted. It’s how the law works.
“Americans have always come to the aid of the under dog.”
Even when they are crooks? You may have a point.
“Such treatment of a former president is unprecedented.”
Surely that is beside the point isn’ it?
“The recent revelations, without any action, of Chinese money going to the Biden family.”
If Biden has broken the law prosecute him.
“….Biden having lots of classified documents, with less reason for having them and kept less secure than Trump”
But… and it is a big but… Biden gave them back on request in fact he volunteered them. Trump on the other hand held on to them after being ordered to hand them over.
How does having classified document for years make it less of a crime? He was in violation of the law for a greater length of time.
Of course Biden didn’t know that he had them. He can’t even recite a simple poem after several tries. He is non compos mentis. However, he probably was of a sound mind when he initially brought them home.
Trump didn’t “hide” them. They were in a locked room that the archive knew about and required a more secure lock for.
These are the people who believe that because guest Wifi at MAL is open (so unsecure, so unencrypted by definition by the WPA 2 standard), and because Eric Trump “leaked” some random Wifi password that was alleged to be a MAL guest password, MAL security must be lacking.
Luminaries such as Martina Navratilova and analysist Empty Head “emptywheel” took that news seriously.
“Trump didn’t “hide” them. They were in a locked room that the archive knew about and required a more secure lock for.”
What utter crap. You are a grade one idiot if you think Trump behaved properly over these docs. He was asked to give them back he refused. Then he gave some back and said there were no more. Then they raided his place and found highly secret docs.
March 18, 2023 5:43 am
Comments requested:
The rotation of the earth and fluid/gas movement between night and day, tropics and poles has a huge effect on moderating surface temperatures.
The Holder Inequality tells us that for two surfaces with the same average temperature, the one with the greater variance will emit the greater radiation. (Because S-B Law is non linear). Thus a rotating planet with a non GHG atmosphere must emit less radiation than the same planet with no atmosphere.
However, incoming and outgoing radiation must balance. Thus the rotating planet with an atmosphere must warm to restore the radiative balance.
This leads to an important contradiction in GHG theory, because it means that even in the absence of GHG, the average surface temperature of a rotating planet is increased by a non GHG atmosphere.
Proof:
Let a, b, c be abs temp, where
a= daytime temp
b= nighttime temp
c= moderating effect
d= constant (surface area x S-B Law)
for a GT b GT c
where c LT (a-b)/2
No atmosphere, avg temp = (a+b)/2
With atmosphere, avg temp = ((a-c)+(b+c))/2, = (a+b)/2
Radiation no atmosphere = d(a^4+b^4)
Radiation with atmosphere = d((a-c)^4+(b+c)^4)
By the Holder Inequality,
((a-c)^4+(b+c)^4) LT (a^4+b^4)
Therefore a rotating planet with atmosphere emits less radiation than the same planet without atmosphere. The rotating planet with atmosphere thus must warm to restore the radiative balance, even in the absence of GHG.
Last edited 12 days ago by ge0050
March 18, 2023 6:05 am
For some reason my post disappeared.
Comments requested:
The rotation of the earth and fluid/gas movement between night and day, tropics and poles has a huge effect on moderating surface temperatures.
The Holder Inequality tells us that for two surfaces with the same average temperature, the one with the greater variance will emit the greater radiation. (Because S-B Law is non linear). Thus a rotating planet with a non GHG atmosphere must emit less radiation than the same planet with no atmosphere.
However, incoming and outgoing radiation must balance. Thus the rotating planet with an atmosphere must warm to restore the radiative balance.
This leads to an important contradiction in GHG theory, because it means that even in the absence of GHG, the average surface temperature of a rotating planet is increased by a non GHG atmosphere.
Proof:
Let a, b, c be abs temp, where
a= daytime temp
b= nighttime temp
c= moderating effect
d= constant (surface area x S-B Law)
for a GT b GT c
where c LT (a-b)/2
No atmosphere, avg temp = (a+b)/2
With atmosphere, avg temp = ((a-c)+(b+c))/2, = (a+b)/2
Radiation no atmosphere = d(a^4+b^4)
Radiation with atmosphere = d((a-c)^4+(b+c)^4)
By the Holder Inequality,
((a-c)^4+(b+c)^4) LT (a^4+b^4)
Therefore a rotating planet with atmosphere emits less radiation than the same planet without atmosphere. The rotating planet with atmosphere thus must warm to restore the radiative balance, even in the absence of GHG.
Last edited 12 days ago by ge0050
March 18, 2023 6:20 am
ChatGPT reviews my paper:
Please review the following:
The rotation of the earth and fluid/gas movement between night and day, tropics and poles has a huge effect on moderating surface temperatures.
The Holder Inequality tells us that for two surfaces with the same average temperature, the one with the greater variance will emit the greater radiation. (Because S-B Law is non linear). Thus a rotating planet with a non GHG atmosphere must emit less radiation than the same planet with no atmosphere.
However, incoming and outgoing radiation must balance. Thus the rotating planet with an atmosphere must warm to restore the radiative balance.
This leads to an important contradiction in GHG theory, because it means that even in the absence of GHG, the average surface temperature of a rotating planet is increased by a non GHG atmosphere.
Proof:
Let a, b, c be abs temp, where
a= daytime temp
b= nighttime temp
c= moderating effect
d= constant (surface area x S-B Law)
for a GT b GT c
where c LT (a-b)/2
No atmosphere, avg temp = (a+b)/2
With atmosphere, avg temp = ((a-c)+(b+c))/2, = (a+b)/2
Radiation no atmosphere = d(a^4+b^4)
Radiation with atmosphere = d((a-c)^4+(b+c)^4)
By the Holder Inequality,
((a-c)^4+(b+c)^4) LT (a^4+b^4)
Therefore a rotating planet with atmosphere emits less radiation than the same planet without atmosphere. The rotating planet with atmosphere thus must warm to restore the radiative balance, even in the absence of GHG.
====== ChatGPT reviews begins ===
The statement regarding the rotation of the earth and fluid/gas movement between night and day, tropics and poles is accurate. The rotation of the earth and atmospheric circulation play a crucial role in moderating surface temperatures.
Regarding the Holder Inequality and its relation to radiative transfer, the statements are technically correct. The Holder Inequality is a mathematical theorem that can be used to compare the radiation emitted by two surfaces with the same average temperature but different variances. In a rotating planet with a non-GHG atmosphere, the Holder Inequality implies that the radiation emitted by the planet would be less than that of the same planet without an atmosphere. However, it is important to note that the greenhouse effect is caused by GHGs trapping heat in the atmosphere and preventing it from escaping to space, not by changes in the radiation emitted by the planet.
Furthermore, the statement “This leads to an important contradiction in GHG theory because it means that even in the absence of GHG, the average surface temperature of a rotating planet is increased by a non-GHG atmosphere” is not entirely accurate. The warming effect of an atmosphere on a rotating planet is due to the fact that the atmosphere absorbs and re-emits radiation, which increases the radiative forcing at the surface. The greenhouse effect is an additional effect caused by GHGs, which enhances the warming effect of the atmosphere by trapping heat in the atmosphere.
In summary, while the statements regarding the Holder Inequality and radiative transfer are correct, the conclusion regarding the contradiction in GHG theory is not accurate. The warming effect of an atmosphere on a rotating planet is not solely due to GHGs but is a result of the absorption and re-emission of radiation by the atmosphere. The greenhouse effect is an additional effect caused by GHGs, which enhances the warming effect of the atmosphere.
Ask that thing if it knows about the 2nd Law.
Especially that heat energy always flows down a thermal gradient and that radiation and heat energy are NOT the same.
Radiation can be present but it does not mean that its carrying any energy.
e.g. A battery might have 12 Volts across its terminals but:
- if there’s nothing connected…or…
- if something of higher than 12Volts is connected across it
No Energy Will Flow out of your 12V battery
But when the ‘something’ of higher than 12V is connected, energy will flow from it into your 12V battery
i.e. Energy flow from high voltage to lower voltage and heat energy (travelling via electromagnetic radiation) follows the same rules.
It always and only goes from high volts to low volts and from hot to cold.
Option (1) above is trivial & irrelevant but Option 2 is what happens.
High voltage corresponds to high temperature
i.e. Radiation will radiate from a cold object (e.g. the atmosphere) but it will not be absorbed by any object warmer than where it came from (e.g. Earth’s surface)
THAT is the crux of the GHGE Fail – it violates the 2nd Law (Entropy)
March 18, 2023 6:48 am
Eleven years ago, WUWT published a guest post by Robert G. Brown challenging the notion of non-isothermal atmospheric equilibrium,
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/01/24/refutation-of-stable-thermal-equilibrium-lapse-rates/
Roy Spencer had earlier reasoned that, were there no greenhouse gases, the troposphere would be in isothermal equilibrium.
https://www.drroyspencer.com/2009/12/what-if-there-was-no-greenhouse-effect/
Today, without exception, one will not find a climate scientist who does not accept the premise that tropospheric thermal gradients are determined by a non-zero adiabatic lapse rate (g/Cp). Rarely mentioned, this premise originated with Kelvin in 1862 and promptly scuttled by Maxwell (1866) and Boltzmann (1875). Both unequivocally showed thermodynamic equilibrium is isothermal whether with or without a gravitational field! Thermal gradients are dissipative phenonmena. Should one force an electric current through a wire, a potential gradient arises. Should one force fluid through a pipe, a pressure gradient and, energy through a gas, a thermal gradient. Steady-state dissipation (joules/sec) is a rigorously defined parameter characterizing every reproducible steady-state.
Does it matter? YES – should one be interested in GHG perturbations. With gradients prescribed by the adiabatic lapse rate, a boundary temperature, T(0), remains the only perturbation parameter available. Fortunately, nature is free to use T(z). The variational character of reproducible steady-states implies minimization of dissipation and boundary value differences. The more degrees of freedom, the greater the minimization, the less surface warming. But this entails mathematics well beyond the level of a wanna-be science.
I keep an open notebook of references and reflections regarding the above and, for those with mathematical curiosity, a variational algorithm and model calculation for thermal profiles given dissipative functions describing radiation and convection:
Quondam:
You are wasting your time! Dr. Spencer’s reasoning is faulty.
The Control Knob for Earth’s climate is simply the amount of dimming Sulfur Dioxide aerosols that are circulating in our atmosphere. IF there is any Greenhouse effect, it is so small that it totally overwhelmed by the effects of changing levels of SO2 aerosols
The more there are, the cooler it gets. And, if their level in the atmosphere is reduced, the warmer it becomes.
Currently, their level is being reduced due to banning the burning of fossil fuels (which also produces SO2 aerosols), by Net-Zero activities, and continuing global “Clean Air ” efforts. The resultant warming is causing heat waves, droughts and flooding (due to “Atmospheric Rivers”) around the world.
The intent of Net-Zero is to prevent temperatures from rising, but it is having exactly the opposite effect
See: “The Cause of Atmospheric Rivers”
March 18, 2023 8:55 am
The AGW acolytes aren’t parishioners of a new, secular religion, they’re the victims of a mood-incongruent delusion.
March 18, 2023 9:32 am
Article in today’s Register Guard says that the Sunflower Sea Star died off in large percentages between 2013 and 2017 likely due to climate change.
“The main threat to the species, which can grow to 3 feet across and have up to 20 arms, is a lethal pathogen that causes sea star wasting syndrome, which killed more than 90% of sunflower sea stars from 2013 to 2017 in what is considered the largest marine wildlife disease outbreak on record.”
So is it the pathogen or climate change? The madness, it burns.
March 18, 2023 10:20 am
What I’d really love to know is why there is so little pushback against all of this destructive green legislation that has been going on for years (but has gotten a lot worse as of late). Years ago I wondered how bad things would have to get before people fought back (at the ballot box or otherwise). I haven’t gotten an answer (if there is one) but in some ways I don’t think I want to know.
For instance, states (and countries) banning fossil fuels for cars, heating, industry, farming, etc. Even though most of these bans are in the future, one would think that people would get to work now to put an end to them. I know if someone told me that something really bad would happen (that would affect me) in the next few years, you bet I’d do everything I could now to forestall whatever that was. But, I don’t know….for some reason a lot of people seem to not think that whatever it is will ever happen.
I just saw that Oregon is looking to eventually ban diesel fuel, including for use on farms.
https://www.theepochtimes.com/critics-blast-oregons-efforts-to-phase-out-petroleum-diesel-and-restrict-farming_5128270.html?ea_med=desktop_news&tmp=1&ea_src=ai_recommender
Sorry the only place I could find this is from the Epoch Times (which you probably won’t be able to read if you aren’t a subscriber.
There is also the election revolt (maybe their elections have fewer issues than those here in the US?) of the Dutch against the lawmakers who came up with the fertilizer restrictions.
But other than a few bright spots here and there, it seems people are acting like sheep headed for the slaughter. And the story the other day about NYC’s impending forced building refurbishment to get rid of gas heating….. Why aren’t building owners (especially big commercial ones that have the money to do so) suing the daylights out of NYC?
It seems the only other things that people (businesses and individuals) are actually doing is leaving those areas. But eventually that will be about as useful as fleeing an area with a disease outbreak. If the disease isn’t isolated, it will eventually spread everywhere. This creeping green crud is like a modern day black death – and left to spread far and wide it will have just as much negative impact on peoples lives and economies as did the original black death. But at least back in the 1300’s, people really had no idea how to stop or prevent the plague. But there are ways to try and stop the evil malfeasance of other people….
I
March 18, 2023 11:05 am
I am not a scientist, so I do not know how scientifically sound the research behind D-O events are in the Earth’s long paleo-climate history. But I nonetheless found it interesting that these events featured periods of warming that were far more rapid than anything we are seeing today.
Dansgaard-Oeschger event | Definition, Causes, & Facts | Britannica
“Among the surprises that have emerged from analyses of oxygen isotopes in ice cores (long cylinders of ice collected by drilling through glaciers and ice sheets) has been the recognition of very sudden, short-lived climate changes. Ice core records in samples extracted from Greenland, Antarctica, Canada’s Arctic Archipelago, and high mountain glaciers in South America show that these climate changes have been large, very rapid, and globally synchronous. Over a period of a few years to a few decades, average temperatures have shifted by up to half of the temperature differences seen between the Pleistocene ice ages and their interglacial periods—that is, as much as 5–15 °C (9–27 °F). Although some scientists note that there may have been up to 25 D-O events during the most recent 120,000 years, detailed analyses of the most accurately dated Greenland ice cores show that 13 D-O events occurred between 11,600 and 45,000 years ago, with an average periodicity of 1,470 years.”
“D-O climatic oscillations typically consist of a rapid warming episode that unfolds over decades and is followed by a gradual cooling interval that extends across centuries or millennia. For example, the sudden warming episode that occurred approximately 11,500 years ago, marking the end of the Younger Dryas cool period, increased temperatures by about 5–7 °C (9–12.6 °F). This increase took place over roughly 30–40 years, peaking by as much as 8 °C (14.4 °F) over 40 years. In addition, the Little Ice Age that began during the 14th century has been interpreted by some scientists as a D-O oscillation.”
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Isn’t it interesting how these D-O events never seem to be mentioned in today’s discussions about a supposed climate crisis or emergency? I guess the climate scare pundits don’t want any cold water thrown on the current global warming debate (pun intended).
March 18, 2023 11:22 am
For those who may have missed it, on Thursday Tucker Carlson launched into a major takedown of our good friend Greta’s deletion of an inconvenient tweet prediction of hers, and then he detailed the global cooling craze of the ’70s at a depth I hadn’t heard on Fox News since Neil Cavuto reminisced about it 5 or so years back. Tucker’s guest after that opening monologue was WUWT guest post contributor Chris Horner, at the 13:54 point in this full show video: https://www.bitchute.com/video/mUrBgEFkP6b5/
In an effort of bizarre awkwardness that just didn’t work out well for Google, that organization initially tried early on Friday to tell everyone who was just trying to find out what Tucker said, “nothing to see here, move along…”
March 18, 2023 12:23 pm
I’m not a scientist at all. I’m a motorcycle freedom fighter and I’ve been fighting for humanity and scientific transparency for over a decade. As you can imagine, the entire motorcycle and auto industry and all the aftermarket organizations have been bullied into submission by the green movement and environmental alarmists (doomsday).
I have done all I can to inform the motorcycle and some of the automotive industry groups of the facts. I am hoping that I might be able to put a coalition of organizations together to sign-off on a resolution to force our lovely government to offer the public scientific transparency (honesty) through a hearing and to put Climate Doom on trial, on a national stage.
The most absurd aspect of this entire debate revolves around scientific integrity which Al Gore threw out the window. Just this issue is destroying our country and much of the world, but I believe we can do something about it, like Ed Berry did in Montana.
–Keith R. Ball
Bikernet.com
March 18, 2023 12:31 pm
TOYOTA IS PROVIDING A DOSE OF IC vs EV REALITY; THE US SHOULD LISTEN
https://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/toyota-is-providing-a-dose-of-reality-the-us-should-listen
Japan’s Toyota — is currently the world’s largest automaker. Toyota and Volkswagen vie for that title each year — each taking the crown from the other — as the market moves.
GM — America’s largest automaker — is about half Toyota’s size — thanks to its 2009 bankruptcy, restructuring and $11.2 billion dollar buyout…….they still owe the U.S. Taxpayers.
Actually — Toyota is a major car manufacturer in the U.S. In 2016 about 81% of the cars it sold in the U.S., came off American assembly lines.
Toyota was among the first to introduce gas/electric hybrid cars with the Prius twenty years ago. The company hasn’t been afraid to change the car game.
All of this is to point out that Toyota understands both the car market and the infrastructure that supports the car market. Toyota probably understands both better than any other manufacturer on the planet.
Toyota hasn’t grown through acquisitions as Volkswagen has, and it hasn’t undergone bankruptcy and bailout as GM has. Toyota has grown by building reliable cars and trucks for decades.
When Toyota offers an opinion on the car market, it’s probably worth listening to.
This week Toyota reiterated — The world is not yet ready to support a fully electric auto fleet.
Toyota’s Robert Wimmer (head of energy & environmental research) said this week in testimony before the U.S. Senate….
“If we are to make dramatic progress in electrification, it will require overcoming tremendous challenges – challenges including: refueling infrastructure / battery availability / consumer acceptance / and affordability.
Wimmer’s remarks come on the heels of GM’s announcement that it will phase out all gas “Internal Combustion Engines” (ICE) by 2035.
Tellingly, both Toyota and Honda have so far declined to make any such promises. Honda is the world’s largest engine manufacturer (when you include: boats / motorcycles / lawnmowers / etc.)
Honda competes with Briggs & Stratton in those markets, amid increased electrification of [traditionally gas powered] lawnmowers / weed trimmers /etc.
While manufacturers have announced ambitious goals, just 2% of the world’s cars are electric at this point.
Buyers continue to choose ICE over electric because of: price / range / infrastructure / affordability / etc.
Only a small percentage of people would choose an electric car unless forced to buy. There are 289.5 million cars just on U.S. roads as of 2021. About 98 percent of them are gas-powered.
Toyota’s RAV4 took the top spot for purchases in the 2019 U.S market — Honda’s CR-V is second and GM’s top seller (Equinox) comes in at #4 behind the Nissan Rogue.
GM only has one entry in the U.S. top 15.
Toyota and Honda dominate – each with a handful in the top 15.
Toyota warns: the US electrical grid and infrastructure simply aren’t there to support the electrification of the private car fleet.
A 2017 U.S. government study found we would need about 8,500 strategically-placed charging stations to support a fleet of just 7 million electric cars. That’s about six times the current number of electric cars.
But no one should be talking about supporting just 7 million cars. We should be talking about powering about 300 million within the next 20 years, if all manufacturers follow GM and stop making ICE cars.
We are going to need a bigger energy boat to deal with connecting all those cars to the power grids – a WHOLE LOT bigger boat.
But, instead of building a bigger boat, we may be shrinking our boat. Power outages in California and Texas have exposed issues with power supplies even at current usage levels.
Increasing usage of wind and solar — both of which prove unreliable — has driven some coal and natural gas generators offline.
We will need much more generation capacity to power about 300 million cars if we’re all going to be forced to drive electric cars, and we will be charging them frequently. Every roadside gas station must be wired to charge electric cars and charging speeds must increase greatly.
Current technology allows charges in 30-45 minutes..but that best-case fast charging cannot be done on home power. Charging at home (on alternating current) takes a few hours to overnight and will increase the home power bill.
Toyota has publicly warned about this twice while its smaller rival GM is pushing to go electric. That power, like all electricity in the United States, comes from generators using:
Natural Gas / Petroleum / Coal / Nuclear / Wind / Solar / or Hydroelectric sources.
Even half an hour is an unacceptably long time to spend charging. It’s about 5 to 10 times longer than a gas pump takes. Imagine big rigs with much larger tanks. Imagine the charging lines that would form every day if charge time isn’t reduced by 70 to 80 percent.
We can expect improvements, but those won’t come without cost. Electrifying the auto fleet requires massive overhaul of the power grid and an enormous increase in power generation. GM may be trying to win favour with those in power in California / Washington / and in the media.
Toyota’s addressing REALITY, and they seem to know what they’re talking about.
Toyota isn’t saying none of this can be done. They are saying, IC to EV conversion regarding the a-to-Z electric system will not produce meaningful results.
COMMENT:
Bull manure.
The results will be VERY MEANINGFUL
They will be impoverishing, because they are hugely expensive, we are talking many $TRILLIONS JUST IN THE US, but the conversion will have NO measurable effect on the climate.
A high-mileage IC vehicle, say 30 to 35 mpg, such as a SUBARU Outback, or a Toyota Prius hybrid, at 54 MPG, have less LIFETIME CO2 than an SUV or Crossover-size EV, with an 85 kWh battery, on an A-to Z basis, from mining materials to landfilling hazardous waste.
Last edited 12 days ago by wilpost
“Toyota warns: the US electrical grid and infrastructure simply aren’t there to support the electrification of the private car fleet.”
This fact all by itself should be enough to kill off the whole idea of a conversion of the nation’s fleet of cars and trucks to electric. When you add in the environmental movement’s opposition to the construction of additional fossil fuel power plants and nuclear plants, the EV game plan becomes devoid of any rationality at all.
Wind and solar become just smokescreens to avoid admitting to all of this.
Rationality is exactly the same as for “unreliables”. The real business that does something useful has a modicum of power because someone actually needs it, while an industry built on pure BS and pork is 100% controlled by government.
Thus an easy way to shift balance of power in favor of those who control the rules of this game is clear: use the air castle industry as a counterweight for the real industry and put the latter on an even shorter and stiffer leash.
Likewise, when the publishers reign over entertainment, the ugly result we can see in the last few decades is inevitable. Because these middle-men are interested in proliferation of vapid bubbles — disposable rappers, over-advertised Hugbox Award winners and suchlike, rather than the artists who are worth something on their own and are not completely dependent on them, thus can have a negotiating position and demands of their own.
It’s the same effect.
March 18, 2023 5:44 pm
I’ll post this on every Open Thread Until we get an acceptable answer. Antarctica is a great control for the urban heat island effect and water vapor. The location is ideal for isolating the impact of CO2 on temperatures. What do you get when you can actually tie the change is CO2 to the change in temperature? CO2 has no impact on temperature…none. Why? Because 15-micron LWIR is consistent with the energy of a -80 C BlackBody. Someone, please explain why temperatures aren’t increasing in Antarctica and the other hot dry, and cold deserts.
Link
Not sure is the areas where the ice cores are drilled are at elevations, but there are plenty of sea level locations not showing warming. Do the laws of physics cease to exist at these locations? Note, that is a satellite measure of the South Pole so the altitude argument doesn’t hold water.
Link to many sites that show no clear warming trend
This is the link, Clearly, there is no established uptrend. There is volatility, but it clearly isn’t associated with CO2. Link
I’ve made this point 1,000x and this video should be featured on every Climate Change Website. Finally, someone applied the scientific method to scientific data.
Malcolm Roberts of Queensland
https://youtu.be/yuz4DFhLP2g
The Antarctic has a minor negative greenhouse effect, because it’s water vapor is less than 6 ppm, and the ice pack is at high elevation, more than 2300 meter, which means there are about 50% less CO2 molecules/m3, than at sea level.
The combination leads to a neg GHE.
Tomorrow, I will add some Verbiage and URLs to this comment
1) The whole purpose of choosing the S Pole is to control for the Urban Heat Island Effect and H2O. It is a natrual control for UHI and H2O allowing for an experiment that isolates the impact of CO2 on Temperatures.
2) No all of the area covered by the Satellite data is at elevation. While your comments are relevant to some parts of the measured area, there are plenty of there areas that show no warming and are not at elevation. The last chart posted shows that all of America has experienced no warming since the late 1800s.
3) Almost all dry and cold deserts show no warming, elevated or not.
March 18, 2023 6:32 pm
An interesting anecdote-
Insurance For Electric Car Repairers – Automotive – Whirlpool Forums
