The World is Not Ending | Bjørn Lomborg and Jordan Peterson

The Dr Jordan B Peterson Podcast

The World is Not Ending | Bjørn Lomborg | #315

Jordan B Peterson

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Dr Jordan B Peterson and Dr. Bjørn Lomborg discuss the present sense of impending doom that has swept the western world- and specifically today’s young people. Together they break down the ideas of social credit and easy activism, and paint the picture of a world we can strive for, without the demonization and destruction of the one we currently inhabit.

Bjørn Lomborg is a Danish author, having written numerous books on climate change such as “False Alarm,” “The Skeptical Environmentalist,” and “How to Spend $75 Billion to Make the World a Better Place.” He is the president of the think tank Copenhagen Consensus Center that focuses on doing the most good, for the most people, with increasingly limited budgets. Previously, Lomborg was the director of the Danish government’s Environmental Assessment Institute.

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December 23, 2022 12:11 am

I watched the presentation right to the end .
It would be a good video for all schools anywhere English is spoken .
Students could then see that this climate change is not going to be the end of the world .
There are many problems but with some education many can be solved with positive
out comes.
They were very positive and they touched on genetically modified food and that artificial nitrogen fertilizer grows food to feed 4 billion people each year .
They spoke about helping poor countries to improve housing food fresh water and sanitationand most importantly education for their populations
They touched on 4th generation Nuclear to generate electricity .
Central planning has never worked when tried around the world .
well worth the time if you can spare 2 hours .

Peta of Newark
Reply to  Graham
December 23, 2022 1:22 am

Two seemingly trivial points that blow it all apart:
1/ From numbers I remember (you cant bookmark everything) from the interweb, also personal actual experience, Nitrogen fertilizer feeds 80% of everybody.

2/ From a recent ‘Things are never better exposition‘ by our very own Willis, a modicum of digging turned up a rather contrary picture to what he was painting. Also Lomborg here.

It was especially that since date=1960

  • World population has doubled
  • World ‘food’ production has tripled
  • World nitrogen use has gone up seven-fold

Consider for just a moment that maybe people eat food to obtain Nutrition and not esp Calories.
i.e Food contains Calories but Calories are not = Food
So what’s going on there?
(Similar to Temperature is not’ Energy inside climate science)

But the 7-fold increase in Nitrogen use just to get a 3-fold increase in production is the real killer.
Does that not tell anyone that something really awful is going on out there – that we are using ever increasing amounts of Nitrogen to scrape the bottom of a rapidly emptying barrel.
Running faster and faster just to stand still.

It never worked out well for previous (settled) civilisations , except they used animal-manure and night-soil to get their Nitrogen – and – where are they now?
Where. Are. They. Now.

Oh you say: The Climate Changed

While the only explanation for same comes via frantic arm waving, blizzards of computer graphics, mountains of minutia, oceans of verbal diarrhoea and vague unsubstantiated mutterings about Solar Insulation, Cosmic Rays, Clouds, Mankowitch Cycles, Precessions and Spot Spot Numbers
All perfectly reinforced by what happened to the dinosaurs 65 million years ago.

Bad news incoming: If the dinosaurs hadn’t died, we wouldn’t even be here.

On our present course we really are completely fugged, we are on self fulfilling prophecy.
But as we all know,

  • The Phlogiston did it
  • The Dancing Angels were greater/lesser in number than thought
  • The supercomputer said so
  • The Emperor was complicit

Yeah. Right

Reply to  Peta of Newark
December 23, 2022 2:01 am

… but nature knows how to take its revenge, sadly it doesn’t differentiate between ordinary and poor folks and the the idiots who run governments, The UK so far got away with it wile Canada and USA hopefully will learn a bit of a lesson in the next few days.

Reply to  Peta of Newark
December 23, 2022 2:28 am

Peta, Jordan Peterson explains in his writings how we modern humans have evolved to mostly successfully navigate our living existence between “chaos” and “order”.

“Chaos” is what nature serves up to all species to either contend with by creating some “order” for their continuing sustainable existence, or succumb to the predation of competitive species.

The future demands of “order” can never be confidently known, because nature is always going to be testing us by imposing various forms of “chaos” upon us.

So we must navigate our very existence between “chaos” and “order” by availing ourselves of any and all currently available resources at hand to prevail.

Nitrogen serves our purpose at the moment, but we must be continually preparing for the time when something else is required.

This is our lot for life – we either find “the ways” to keep going, or roll over and concede our presence to a more inventive species.

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  Peta of Newark
December 23, 2022 3:49 am

If the dinosaurs hadn’t died, we wouldn’t even be here”

but one of their kind probably would have developed bigger brains and intelligence so we’d be them

Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
December 23, 2022 5:23 am

I’m thankful we raise chickens and not the other way round.

Reply to  Peta of Newark
December 23, 2022 5:58 am

Dinosaurs live…it’s the birds….birds have the greatest brain size to body weight of any animal. The Egyptian Empire had annual Nile floods to provide fertilizer and China has numerous rivers to flood. N is abundant but why continue population increase? 8 billion seems enough. Factory sugar food is not the best healthy food…too much processed food is bad for you.

Dave Andrews
Reply to  antigtiff
December 23, 2022 7:13 am

Improving peoples lives by providing them with cheap reliable energy is the best way to curb population growth. Fossil fuels are the answer.

Reply to  antigtiff
December 23, 2022 12:27 pm

On 21 December Solstice 4:43 PM there was a lone Chikadee sitting on the feeder who turned around and watched the sunset. Never seen that happen before because usually they’re all too busy feeding. Not that it means much of anything, just sayin…

Over the years I’ve noticed other things, like when all the Oak trees drop their leaves at once when there is a hurricane coming up the coast. But as we all know, it doesn’t mean anything, just a weird coincidence…

Reply to  Peta of Newark
December 23, 2022 9:27 am

Where. Are. They. Now.

Well, they’re pretty much where they were then. We invented modern water treatment and sewage systems that solve the very problem you allude to.

We could of course take your advice and stop using nitrogen in such large amounts. Will you step up to explain to 4 billion people why they have to die of starvation?

Lesser of two evils in your mind?

Reply to  Peta of Newark
December 23, 2022 9:51 am

Peta, don’t be such a pessimist. N2 makes up 78.1% of the atmosphere and is said to be the 7th most abundant element in the universe. Nobody is out there worried that we are running out of nitrogen due to fertilizer production. In large part, this is because nitrogen cycles through the biosphere and largely ends up back in the atmosphere as N2. Your notion that we are scraping the bottom of the N2 barrel is preposterous.

What is true is that it takes a lot of energy (mostly coal, gas and oil today) to convert atmospheric N2 to ammonia and thence to other usable forms, but folks are working on that challenge.

Reply to  Peta of Newark
December 23, 2022 11:19 am

Rave on Peta .
Facts are facts
Four billion people in the world are fed with food grown with artificial nitrogen .
You or any one else trying to argue against that has either got their head very deep in the sand or else they believe that there are to many people on this earth .
What you do not or will not accept is that in 1950 the worlds population was around 2.5 billion and there was no nitrogen fertilizer used .
There was a great deal of hunger back then .
There are now over 8 billion people but there are less hungry people than there were in the 1920s .
You can use night soil Peta as they did in the rice paddies in China 30 years ago and the smell was horrific.
All effluent on modern dairy farms is spread usually by irrigation over a large area which in many cases does need any other fertilizer .
Organics will not feed the world Peta
Fact .
People are living longer .
Fact .
Food grown with artificial nitrogen is nutritious.

December 23, 2022 3:10 am

The UN Millennium Development Goals have been swamped by the attention given to fighting climate change.

At the turn of the next century, I predict that people will look back and consider this one political choice to be the single greatest failing of the 21st Century.

We could provide clean water today or we could try to control the trend in the weather over a hundred years’ time through trace gas emissions. It shouldn’t have been a hard choice.

These two are talking about the tragedy of those repeated mistakes. We all ought to be talking about this. 
This is what the world truly does need, today.

December 23, 2022 4:10 am

Keep in mind that a century ago the “science” of eugenics had swept the world and drove a great many national governments …. into World War Two, the bloodiest war in human history.

Reply to  Duane
December 23, 2022 5:26 am

Some things have changed, some things not much.

Paul Stevens
December 23, 2022 4:49 am

Peterson and Lomborg have talked before, so you will hear some repetition in this discussion, covering ground already traveled over, but it bears repeating. There are numerous problems facing humans on Earth. Why all the focus on the moderate increase in temperature since 1850? For which the proposed solution is to spend trillions of dollars and compel developing nations to reject fossil fuels? If you could provide proper nutritional supplements to pregnant women in developing countries for some paltry millions to ensure proper brain development in fetuses, and gain a return on investment of $35 for every $1 spent, why wouldn’t you? Similar returns can be achieved by spending appropriately on education. Lomborg is in the business of ranking concerns that impact human life in the order of most gain for expenditure to the least. This conversation exposes the fixation on climate change for what it is. And it has little to do with celebrating human existence and much to do with achieving a particular agenda. A very worthwhile use of your time. You can easily find Peterson’s podcasts and download them to your phone to listen to while driving about your daily affairs.

Reply to  Paul Stevens
December 23, 2022 11:54 am

We all know why they focus on temperature. Because the collectivists found the perfect boogieman to justify any and all initiatives that they wanted to do anyway. And it’s just nebulous enough that it sounds logical and can’t be disproven. The temperature has barely moved, and nothing fundementally has changed worldwide in climate at all in the last 30 years of this scam, but people have been repeatedly fed this lie, then confirmation bias, recency bias, availability bias, and a few other fallacies have kept people from realizing that, indeed some have been whipped up into a frenzy despite nothing actually happening. It’s quite a sad commentary on humanity.

Bruce Cobb
December 23, 2022 8:22 am

Greta’s response to these two: “How DARE you”!

Reply to  Bruce Cobb
December 23, 2022 11:25 am

Greta and Peta.

Bruce Cobb
December 23, 2022 8:45 am

I’m only thru about the first half-hour of it, but I saw a video recently which is an example of good, or positive environmentalism, and is an example of how wealth enables us to “give back to nature” what we have taken, about building “critter passes” in the Cascades. One can argue about whether or not it is a good use of environmental funds (I would say it is), but that’s a separate issue:

Reply to  Bruce Cobb
December 23, 2022 9:34 am

I have driven down that very road in the past but never saw this which must be fairly new, but I would think it is a good idea to help wildlife have safe passage which is part of being a responsible Steward of the planet.

Reply to  Sunsettommy
December 23, 2022 11:39 am


There’s a well-traveled highway in southern Wyoming that has massive migrations, and other places have elk and deer migrations. So the U.S. and state govment have built “crossovers” and “cross unders” to let the critters move back and forth as the seasons change. Just one example….

Down here on the Gulf Coast we use rubble from old buildings and bridges to create reefs that both enhance recreational fishing but offer more shelter/habitat for the critters that were here long before us. Added to that, see the oil and gas rigs off the Louisiana coast for good sea life habitat where there was only mud before.

Gums sends…

Reply to  Gums
December 24, 2022 9:40 am

Deer and Elk are large enough to cause serious damage to vehicles and drivers when a collision occurs. So these under and over passes are good for all parties.

Reply to  Bruce Cobb
December 24, 2022 3:03 am

They have them in Montana

December 23, 2022 11:45 am

with increasingly limited budgets”

I’ll assume this is just publisher inserted filler words, because the 1.7T pork laden Omnibus bill, and the last couple years of inflationary spending, would disagree that budgets are becoming increasingly limited.

Reply to  Mantis
December 23, 2022 1:08 pm

Inflationary spending always comes back and hurts the less well off in those countries .
Governments like individuals or businesses cannot keep spending money that they do not have.
Inflation is starting to bite around the world .
At some time into the future governments will come to realize that they can only spend what they have gathered as tax .
This is called belt tightening and again it hurts those who are less well off .
Petersen and Lomborg were talking about education in poor countries and cost effective ways that other countries can help and also supplying vitamin injections for pregnant woman to help the new born babies .Both would not cost billions and would result in very good outcomes .

Reply to  Mantis
December 24, 2022 9:41 am

In government speak, limited just means that they weren’t given everything they asked for.

Rick C
December 23, 2022 3:15 pm

Lomborg’s think tank has quite a few very doable proposals that would benefit humanity. All it would take is funding and proper oversight of implementation (i.e. keep corrupt politicians from stealing the funds) to do a lot of good for the most in need. Western governments won’t touch it but where are the great philanthropists? Gates, Bezos, Soros, Steyer, Turner, Musk, Schwab, Rockefeller Foundation, Clinton Foundation, etc. could easily scape up a couple billion a year to fund the kind of projects Lomborg has identified as low hanging fruit. Are these folks really interested in helping the less fortunate? Or are they just a bunch of egotistical virtue signalers? I have a proposed agenda item for the next Davos WEF meeting – “Funding Lomborg’s ‘How to Spend $75 Billion to Make the World a Better Place'”.

December 23, 2022 6:45 pm

This is an example of what happens when experts or professionals speaking over their areas of expertise. Sciences are exact and require a qualified response. I am a professor in the most advanced and accredited medical education program in the world.

What do all countries and all levels of academia have in common regarding global warming causing climate change? Even though temperature is a critical consideration, they are all 100% blind to temperature. Engineering and electrical professionals like myself calculated or measured for temperature considerations.

Buildings and their energy use are an engineered product, not for people to do their own renovations.

Dr. Jordan came to a conclusion without incorporating important applicable science. I am presently in legal proceedings with the British Columbia Utilities Commission. Utilities have to to apply through their applicable Utilities Commission to generate electricity. In Canada, every province has a utilities Commission. The Lt. Governor for each province and the country are included as they represent the Queen’s assets.

FortisBC applied through the BCUC for smart meters while BC Hydro used the Clean Energy Act to bypass the BCUC Application. The Clean Energy Act isn’t applicable but the depths of corruption allowed that to happen. FortisBC experts under oath admitted they will cover 17,000 sq. kms of their coverage area with highly penetrating EMFs. The EMFs INDUCE electrical current, change frequencies throughout the body as well as vibrate the entire body at the molecular level. Imagine flipping a baby end for end billions of times per second, they will come apart. There are ZERO circumstances where electrical professionals allow current to be induced into humans or ecosystems. Here is my submission to the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission on nuclear failure of an aging nuclear power plant in Toronto city limits. There are 464 nuclear power plants globally and they will all fail.

Mother earth frequency is 7.83 Hz and so is our heartbeat.

Microwaving the planet that sustains all life for ease of communication is killing the planet that sustains all life. You will see the science used for wireless safety is a plastic head and Boeing Engineers used 120,000 lbs of potatoes for Wi-Fi safety on aircraft.

The world will end and the peer reviewed science is electricity. Think of our solar system as energy, atoms and molecules. If planet earth dies, what happens to the solar system.

Professor Curtis Bennett

Sar Test and Boeing Test for Wi-Fi_Page_2_Image_0001.jpg
Reply to  thermoguy
December 23, 2022 8:07 pm

I am sure you are a nutter .I have never read such rubbish in all the time I have been posting here.

old cocky
Reply to  thermoguy
December 23, 2022 9:21 pm

Mother earth frequency is 7.83 Hz and so is our heartbeat. 

Hmm, 480 beats per minute. That’s pretty impressive, unless you’re a hummingbird.

Reply to  thermoguy
December 24, 2022 9:47 am

Comparing a microwatts of EMF to flipping a baby end to end a billion times a second?

There has never been any science that shows low levels of micro waves to be harmful.

If the earth dies, the solar system goes on it’s merry way, without even noticing.

You really need to ask your Doc’s to up your dosage.

December 23, 2022 9:08 pm

I wonder why Lomborg fails to give any references for his various claims. I’m particularly interested in the source of his magical “shared” student tablet figures.

In the larger picture, his apparent belief that the human species can simply continue to multiply without exhausting usable air, water, food, energy and space is not credible. No sane person could believe that, even the Pope. That makes him just another politician, telling the masses the lies they want to hear, while pursuing his own hidden agenda.

In this article he would have us believe that there is an educational program and a tablet to deliver it affordably that the whole world could agree on, as well as a multivitamin we could all agree would cheaply keep any pregnany woman and her infant well-nourished throughout the term of her pregnancy. I’d certainly like to know the details of these plans, and the names and credentials of the geniuses who came up with them. And also why these techno-economical wonders of the world are not available to consumers in the developed countries.

Reply to  otropogo
December 24, 2022 9:49 am

Using existing technology, the Earth can easily support 3 to 4 times as many people as are currently on the planet.
With future technology? Who knows.

Reply to  MarkW
December 24, 2022 8:16 pm

Continuing reports of increasing disease, starvation and malnutrition around the world indicate that we can’t even support the present world population with the “existing technology”.

Where is the evidence for your astonishing and egregioulsly vague claim to be found?

December 24, 2022 7:54 am

The more I have looked at the issue the more I question that climate change is even a problem much less a serious one. Mild warming coupled to increased co2 both of which result in greater biomass and ecological diversity so I fail to see where “the problem” is?
We have, practically speaking , conquered other than co2 emission issues for burning fossil fuels, at least for wealthy areas, so what bad effects does this leave.
I’d like to see Mr. Lomborg speak to what, exactly, he sees as “the problem”.

Reply to  CultivatingMan
December 24, 2022 11:00 am

The problem is in the minds of those pushing climate change .
Our problem as inhabitants of this world is that governments and the UN are using climate change to make many stupid decisions that will end up hurting millions if not billions of people .
You are correct that there is no problem with mild warming and using fossil fuels for the benefit of mankind .
The most urgent problem is to bring some sanity back to the UN .
That is where this madness emanated from , an unelected organization that is secretly pushing for one world government .
Central planning has never worked .
The UN might have to be disbanded to overcome this problem .
You can disagree with me but take some time to think why do we have many problems in this world that could be fixed quickly if the UN was effective .

December 25, 2022 7:53 am

I just stumbled across this one:

It goes together with this Lomborg discussion.

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