Essay by Eric Worrall
Ukraine President Zelensky might have just jeopardised whatever remaining support he had with US Republicans, by tying climate action to support for Ukraine.
Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says climate change policy is impossible without peace
Posted Yesterday at 4:13am, updated Yesterday at 7:38am
Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has distracted world governments from efforts to combat climate change, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has said in a video message played at the COP27 climate conference in Egypt.
Key points:
- Mr Zelenskyy criticised the impact of war and aggression on global joint actions on climate change
- Ukraine is hosting an exhibition space for the first time at a UN climate conference
- Andrew Forrest called for a pause to seabed mining at COP27
“There can be no effective climate policy without the peace,” Mr Zelenskyy said.
“This Russian war has brought about an energy crisis that has forced dozens of countries to resume coal-fired power generation in order to lower energy prices for their people … to lower prices that are shockingly rising due to deliberate Russian actions.
“[It] brought an acute food crisis to the world, which hit worst those suffering the existing manifestations of climate change.
“The Russian war destroyed 5 million acres of forests in Ukraine in less than six months.”
…
Read more: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-11-09/zelenskyy-blames-russia-cop27-climate-change/101631956
President Biden has been generous in his support for President Zelensky, but this support is costing the USA a great deal of money.
However, Congress is likely going to be in Republican hands going forward, and Congress controls the purse strings. Continued US support for Ukraine to some extent will depend on Zelensky’s relationship with the US Republicans.
Congressional Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy has already indicated he won’t be writing any blank cheques.
House Republicans divided over aid to Ukraine ahead of midterms
McCarthy says Congress won’t ‘write a blank cheque’ while another senior Republicans says Ukrainians should ‘get what they need’
Julian Borger in Washington Wed 19 Oct 2022 06.24 AEDT
…
Kevin McCarthy, the House minority leader, told the Punchbowl Newswebsite on Tuesday: “I think people are going to be sitting in a recession and they’re not going to write a blank cheque to Ukraine.”
“They just won’t do it,” McCarthy added. “It’s not a free blank cheque. And then there’s the things [the Biden administration] is not doing domestically: not doing the border and people begin to weigh that. Ukraine is important, but at the same time it can’t be the only thing they do, and it can’t be a blank cheque.”
A few hours later, however, the ranking Republican on the House foreign affairs committee, Michael McCaul, who is likely to run the committee in the event of a Republican win in November, argued that arms supplies to Ukraine should be stepped up.
“We’ve got to give them what they need. When we give them what they need, they win,” McCaul said on the Bloomberg television channel. In particular he referred to the Army Tactical Missile System (ATACMS), which has a longer range than the missiles the administration is currently providing.
…
Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/oct/18/republicans-ukraine-midterm-elections
I understand Zelensky’s motivation, in his position I would talk to anyone and everyone, and say anything, to get the weapons needed to fight Russia.
But stepping into the climate change arena is playing with fire, in ways Zelensky may not be aware of. Supporting the opponents of the people who now hold the purse strings in the USA is a dangerous move, for someone who utterly depends on continued US generosity.
Zelensky should remember, the USA is under no obligation to help. It is not America’s job to sign blank cheques to fund every feel good righteous sounding cause, especially when Europe could be doing a lot more to pull their weight.
The trillions of dollars Europe plans to squander on renewables in the next few years are only available because the USA helps pay for Europe’s defence – otherwise Europe would need much of that money to fund their own armies and equipment, instead of relying on the USA to pay the bills. So I completely understand people who feel Europe and the rest of the world are taking America’s generosity for granted.
I just posted a comment and then it disappeared.
Are comments not allowed for this article?
My first comment this morning was waiting for approval and never showed up
I tried two more comments now, both waiting for approval, and I suspect they will never show up. Perhaps criticizing Zelensky is censored here?
If censorship is part of the new comment system here, that’s very disappointing.
Sequestered, probably. Censored, plausibly. Actually, unlikely, given diverse precedents of politically incongruent posts and comments on sociopolitically sensitive topics past, present, and progressive.
Richard, maybe the mods caught you out for brandishing an assault weapon.
Eric makes way too much out of Zelenskyy’s brief comment which is factually correct, that the Russian initiated war did cause interruptions in supply, particularly to Europe of natural gas, and resulting increases in fossil fuel prices, which clearly hinders the efforts by governments to switch over to renewable energy sources. He did not advocate any particular climate change policy, and he has a legitimate concern that many in Europe and elsewhere may want to blame Ukraine for what they are now paying for fossil fuels.
There is no lack of Republican support for Ukraine. Only the extreme MAGAs advocate any cutback in support of Ukraine, and that does NOT include McCarthy. He and the vast majority of Republicans voted for the funding of Ukraine’s defense, which is by far the most cost effective means of reducing Russia as a military threat to the US and NATO. Very cheap compared to the trillions we wasted fighting the counter insurgent wars in the hellholes of the middle east the last two decades.
Yes a more rational US government would conclude that it’s all about prioritizing spending programs –
sending in the 101 screaming eagles or whatever they are to supposed border areas truthfully prob already boots IN ukie
and from prior comments and on record ideas about making Russia Malleable to usa interests for some decades, youre going to end up losing more of your own
One possible approach would include this.
Amazing how the US secretly runs the world.
“ Only the extreme MAGAs advocate any cutback in support of Ukraine, and that does NOT include McCarthy.’
Then there is *this*
While House GOP leader Kevin McCarthy, who is in line to become speaker if Republicans win the House, said Americans should not “write a blank cheque” for Ukraine.
Sounds like a cutback in support to me
There is a difference between an “adequate supply” and a “blank check”.
Ukraine doesn’t need a blank check, it just needs adequate supplies, and then the Ukrainians will take it from there. No American boots on the ground needed.
Wars, torture, [catastrophic] [anthropogenic] immigration reform, mass abortion fields by proxy is palatable to American democracy, and profitable to Democrat and not a few Republican leaders.
$40 bill in less than a year has been a blank cheque. It was only suggested it going to be money cut back.
Excellent comment, Duane.
Tucker Carlson’s view of the war in Ukraine is a minority view among Republicans. Most Republcians see the benefit in stopping Putin in Ukraine.
For those who don’t want to stop Putin in Ukraine, I have this question: Where are you going to draw the line on Putin, if not Ukraine? How far are you willing to let Putin go?
Personally, I’d go with Lisbon and Galway, Tom. Our “allies” are as always letting America pick up the tab.
From France POV the issue is that the US is always cheating in exporting its weapon systems, undercutting Europe industry. Like the way F16 is almost given away for free to prevent European makers from selling its fighters (I exaggerate slightly what I heard).
Who even needs the F35 anyway? (Except maybe Israel if the plane really works.)
Now the criticism against the US may be unfair, but you have to know it’s mainstream in France.
Deleted by the FBI
dont reckon he gives a rats about anywhere else
Ukies signed the Minsk agreement to NO NATO and no eu and then proceeded to keep killing donetsk/luhansk residents to the tune of 14k of the ukrainians living there.
eu usa uk stole oseas trade funds of 300+billion
and refused to pay for gas in rubles AFTER theyd banned SWIFT trades to russia leaving them no options other than setting up russian banks to trade eu to rubles. thats hardly refusing a damn thing energy wise. thats EU usa stupidity. footshot usa cos 800mil barrels of diesel you bought normally from russia arent happening now
quelle surprise!
“Ukies signed the Minsk agreement to NO NATO and no eu and then proceeded to keep killing donetsk/luhansk residents to the tune of 14k of the ukrainians living there.”
Yeah, that’s the Putin propaganda being put out. I don’t buy it.
That is factually what happened. Ukrainians with US assistance – as now – casually lobbed shells into Russian-majority residential areas in Donbas for 8 years deliberately to provoke the war that they have now achieved.
How many Reps do you know? What suggests that isolationism isn’t mainstream?
Duane, it’s extremely cheap for Europe. Not so much for the US paying the tab. I’d go along with a formula of matching each $10 of EU spending with $1 of US contribution.
A war started with a violent coupe, of probable Western conception, spread by Zelensky’s predecessor to the Crimea in a denial of civil and human rights a la invasion of Serbia and carving Kosovo, progressed by Zelensky in 1/2 of Ukraine with equitable inclusion of the Donbas regions etc., targeting Russians… Russian-Ukrainians with catastrophic anthropogenic climate and retributive change. To Russia’s credit, they intervened, albeit with immediate presence and national interest, to mitigate progress in the first instance, but delayed engagement in the second.
“To Russia’s credit, they intervened,”
That’s funny. Do you really believe that’s the way things unfolded?
Putin must be smiling from ear to ear reading your comments. Putin wants everyone thinking like you.
So killing 10’s of thousands Ukrainian civilians was done in order to save them?
how does an increase in fosssil fuel prices hinder renewable development?
Because wind turbines and solar panels rely bigly on oil, coal and gas for their manufacture, transportation and installation.
Even AOC got it –
“It’s all about the benjamins, baby”
https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2022/06/24/republican-mccarthy-congress-abortion-roe-v-wade
What effect do you think that had?
It’s simply the antithesis of “it’s a state issue“. Is it not a the first step of a complete ban? Even non crazy pro-choice people (those that don’t advocate for abortion for any and every reason and any time with no “control”) can only feel that the “pro life” people are disgusting hypocrites and won’t ever tell their project.
[And the left knows hypocrisy as they want common sense law to ban weapons of war which is a category that will include a common regular Glock at the end, and anything that is more powerful than an arrow.]
Why would McCarthy be reinstated after that treason?
“the funding of Ukraine’s defense, which is by far the most cost effective means of reducing Russia as a military threat to the US and NATO.”
The Soviet Union and now Russia has been a military threat to the US since at least 1945. How does their special operation in Ukraine enhance that threat? If the efforts of the US, including bankrupting Germany, defeat the Muscovite horde in Ukraine will the Russians submerge their ICBMs and attached nuclear explosives deep in some ocean trench, scuttle their atomic subs, cut the wings of their bombers? Maybe bankrupting Germany is part of the operation but a Russian defeat in Ukraine won’t make the US any safer.
The Russian invasion of Ukraine has exposed the Russian military as a paper tiger. It’s resulted in the death of 10’s of thousands of Russian soldiers, it’s resulted in the complete emptying of the Russian arsenal, it’s resulted in 100’s of thousands of Russians fleeing the country rather than risk being drafted.
If you don’t think that weakens Russia as a threat, I don’t know what would.
“It’s resulted in the death of 10’s of thousands of Russian soldiers,”
A wild guess — you have no idea what the correct number is
He’s going with the numbers the mainstream media have been using. Clearly you have no idea what the correct number is, otherwise you’d have given it instead of criticizing him for using numbers that the mainstream media have been bandying about. If you can prove the mainstream media is lying about the size and scope of casualties in the Russia military, by all means please provide it. Otherwise you are just blowing smoke, as usual.
Pro Putin people say “only” 5000 Russian soldiers died, but then why would Putin declare a conscription?
“USA is under no obligation to help.”
Except a moral obligation. The USA is a proud guarantor of Ukrainian territorial integrity, under a 1994 Budapest memorandum. Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons, in exchange for security guarantees, which are now no guarantees.
It is a strange way to preserve the honor of a nation.
Should have thought better when they started the coup in 2014. Elections have consequences, even for Vice-presidents too.
The coup? Supported by 85% of population? It is usually called “revolution”.
How do you come up with 85% ? Was that the same way the Budapest memorandum of seeking Security Council action becomes a guarantee of territorial integrity
Sure the deposed President was totally corrupt , but the replacement was no better until the TV comedian came along ( very s
It depends how you count, but typicaly in Eastern Europe suport of goverments are pritty low, In crisis you can get ~20%
Independence was supported by about 35% of the residents in the Donbas region. If allowed a vote for independence they would have lost. In contrast, about 90% of Crimeans preferred to be under Russia rather than Ukraine before Russia took over in 2014.
Preferred, maybe, to a conflict waged by the post-coup regime in Kiev that sough to take over in 2014. In Donbas, the progressive conflict and aligned military and paramilitary axis fueled by American state-of-the art military grade weapons targeting Ukrainians finally forced their hand and warmed relations with anyone willing to stand with them to protect life, liberty, and home.
Sure, after the occupation by green men with no insignia but with Russian weapons. Business as usual, also in Georgia. Russia always defends itself on conquered territory.
Georgia stupidly attacked first by shelling the local separatists across the line of control.
The Russians probably had intel that it was planned and they responded very quickly through the Caucasus tunnel
You are having a green men fantasy
85% of the Ukrainian demos-cracy certified by the EU in a majority referendum that indicated positive or neutral temperament toward Russian-Ukrainians, and Russia proper and in Crimea?
A coup is only pre illegal, but as everything in Law, it’s post legal. It’s its own justification.
The issue isn’t coups, it’s denial of civil rights. Americans should see that.
Lets talk about January coup then LOL, realy western ignorance is become seriuos problem, what you first time hear about Ukrain in 2014? Didnt in 1997,2008,2012?
Not a Guarantor under Budapest ‘memorandum’
The Security section is very limited
Seeking Security Council ‘action’ is not intervene with military assistance is it
Is not limited.
One of the signatures broke the rules, in other way US,UK with “respect of Ukraine borders” can take action, what actions is other question. ITs like Roy vs Wade in US, look how many diferent position are about abortion.
No question one side broke their ‘obligation’
The only response in the quasi-treaty is to seek assistance from the security council.
No problem if US wants to support them militarily, but dont make the false claim its in the memorandum
In separate issue I see the dispute between EU and Britain over the northern Ireland border, some claim Britains breaking its obligations over the Good Friday or Belfast agreement. ( didnt include EU as it was Uk, Ireland and US).
Ready the GFA barely mentions the ‘border’. So it was just dosh by the anti Brexit crowd.
What honor? We dumped Afghanistan. We dumped South Vietnam. We dumped Libya.
People who pushed the honor stuff brought us WW I and its followup, WW II.
Japan attacking Pearl Harbor had nothing to do with WWII?
Germany declaring war on the US had nothing to do with WWII?
Japan’s engagement with America was forced by resource embargoes and isolation, notably oil, by FDR, perhaps with a memory of their campaign in Asia, China proper, but probably not. In the industrial capital we now celebrate labor and environmental arbitrage, and other transhumane actions, for social progress and climate justice, no less.
Most American’s understanding of WW I and WW II are at a comic book level.
Take America’s involvement in WW II. Japan attacked Pearl Harbor!!! War!!!!
The truth is we were at war with Japan long before Pearl Harbor. Japan was involved in a huge war in China and we were actively helping China with supplies, men (Flying Tigers) and a crippling economic embargo. We refused any negotiated settlement with Japan that they would accept. We consciously forced them to go to war with us. We provoked the attack. We knew almost to the day it was coming. The ONLY surprise was that Pearl Harbor was attacked. Have you every wondered why the US carriers were not at Pearl when the attack came? They were busy delivering fighter aircraft to Wake Island and Midway on Dec 7th in anticipation of the imminent Japanese attack. They leave that out of the comic books which we use to teach history.
Regarding Germany. Same thing. Germany was fighting a desperate war and we were actively helping the British with supplies and ships. We were attacking U-boats in the Atlantic, coarse acts of war, without any declaration of war by Congress.
All this time FDR was claiming to be keeping us out of war.
When Germany declared war (a dumb mistake) on us, it was just recognizing the reality of the situation. It gave FDR the excuse he needed to send troops to North Africa to fight the Germans. He abandoned the Philippines and in fact a large hunk of the Pacific theater, which was starved for resources during the early part of the war to better be able to send forces to North Africa. Fact is, the Deep State wanted to go to war with Germany all along. Japan was just the excuse.
And the upshot? China goes Communist and has the greatest human tragedy in history. Communism is triumphant in Eastern Europe. We immediately get involved in another Asian war in Korea. Later, we get involved fighting in Vietnam, for the exact same reason. China Communism.
What a waste. And to think they teach this is school as a good war.
excellent summation
Still I am happy to speak English, not German nor Russian.
and your throwing more bases n men into Syria while STILL thieving truckloads of oil from them daily
nice going
UK gives £2.3b and US gives $80b. So I agree totally. That’s a strange way to preserve the honor of the UK. And our gas prices go up because it’s being exported to sniveling Grauniad readers who whinge about American profits.
Europe can kiss my shiny metal…
And I count the UK post-Brexit-INO as Europe, yes.
“jeopardised whatever remaining support he had with US Republicans”
Say what?
Yes I’m having trouble grasping Eric’s connection on this as well.
There are very few Republicans who are really into “climate change action”.
Threatening to not take climate action, for any reason, is unlikely to upset most Republicans.
Some US Republicans take funds from Russia.
That’s the reason they are opposed to democracy and the invaded country’s right to independence.
We need to back Ukraine.
Proof Please
Thought it was common knowledge. The state department reported on it earlier this year.
Russia Secretly Gave $300 Million to Political Parties and Officials Worldwide, U.S. Says – The New York Times (nytimes.com)
That is not proof MCourtney .
That was a story that your Democrats made up because they lost the election in 2016 .
BS article\
Fact free assertions with no data or proof.
And here’s more evidence that fake sceptics will just ignore, because they are close-minded.
This one’s gone to court.
Longtime GOP operatives charged with funneling Russian national’s money to Trump, RNC – POLITICO
A $25,000 donation n a campaign that raised
$433 billion. So what?
DATA SOURCE:
Summary data for Donald Trump, 2016 cycle • OpenSecrets
Two men are being charged with taking 100,000 from a Russian citizen, keeping $75,000 from themselves and donating the remining $25,000 to a pro-Trump PAC.
You arer making a mountain out of a molehill.
$433Billion?
That’s only true if you count every single race in the country, local, county, state and national.
Correction: I originally typed $1.1 billion for Trumps’ 2020 campaign.
Then I realized the original comment was about Trump’s 2016 campaign.
I meant to change the $1.1 billion to $433 million but forgot to change billions to millions. The link in my prior comment was to the correct number of $433 million.
It’s illegal. That’s normally enough for people to stop trying to make their point.
“Says the New York Times!” That says it all and reveals the zero credibility of anything said.
In the US there are races with 50 millions $ of political propaganda. Not even national races. So 300 millions overall? What a joke.
Every Republican that I know, is a rock-ribbed anti-Communist. Further, they all consider Putin to be an ex-KGB Communist that is the de facto dictator of Russia.
Try an experiment with the Republicans that you know personally. Say, “We are backing the wrong side in the Russia-Ukraine war, we should really be backing Russia, our true ally in the region.”
I suspect you will get 100% disagreement with your statement.
And how did backing the Saudis for 70 years happen ? Because they reflected Western values , supported Israel , werent the birthplace of Al Quaeda and almost all the 9/11 hijackers etc.
No. It was done for purely economic reasons. Needed the oil and overlooked the serious problems with their type of government
I must be missing your point.
In addition to being anti-Communists, Republicans also support oil exploration and development in the U.S.
That reduces the hard currency revenues flowing to bad actors Russia and Saudi Arabia (and Iran).
Those people that suppress fossil fuel development and fracking in the U.S. and western Europe are enabling the bad actors that have large oil reserves. That support comes almost exclusively from the global Left.
You were talking about which side to back , ie nation states Russians arent communists any more (thats an opposition group in the Duma) , But you cant support your claim so done a Gish Gallop instead in another direction.
I think Biden and his energy policy is wrong , but seems like theres a lot of support in the election a days back.
As much as I am pissed at our worthless free-loading “friends” in Europe, I certainly agree that Putin is no friend. America First.
dunno a LOT of ZH stalwarts are pro R and pro usa but are also pro russia BECAUSE of usa actions. only pro usa eu are the sheeple who imbibe ONLY msm agitprop
“We need to back Ukraine.”
Have you tried joining the mercenaries there?
It looks like Ukraine has adequate forces on hand.
Putin is withdrawing his troops from more captured Ukrainian territory even as I write.
and fools may rush in…
Just Ukrainains rushing in. They don’t look like fools to me. They look like winners.
Ah. Another war over Eastern European borders. There is a long, proud history of war over borders in Eastern Europe. Everybody had God on their side.
Look. If “we” win, in a few years we will get tired and go somewhere else. Russia isn’t going anywhere. The Ukrainians are crazy.
Ukraine didn’t invade Russia. Russia invaded Ukraine.
Is it really crazy to fight back rather than bend over and surrender?
When a huge neighbor want’s to talk, you should listen.
Finland didn’t and fought the Winter War with Russia. Everybody celebrates that, since Russia got a big black eye and its whole military establishment was called into question.
What was the result?
Russia doubled down and after huge loss of life on both sides, got everything it wanted.
However, this weakness of Russia encouraged people like Hitler to underestimate Russia’s military potential and Russia’s war against Finland alienated Western countries, who were sending aid to Finland.
The result? Hitler thought Russia was a paper tiger. This helped to lead to WW II. Hitler later is quoted, on tape(!), saying how amazed the Germans were to encounter so many Soviet tanks when they invaded Russia.
Plucky Finland then teamed up with the Nazi’s to fight Russia. The fact that Finland still exists as an ethnostate is amazing. Stalin could have just deported the entire population to Siberia or starved them to death like the Ukrainians. It shows you can co-exist with Russia, but, you have to listen.
So if someone armed broke to your house, you cant resist, just listen to them , meybe you will have luck and they wont kill you LOL.
LoL again, your history knowledge. If you forgot, Fins did everythink to take a peas deal (and even agree to some of the teritories loses), just Stalin didnt want it, like he did with others countries.
USSR didnt regognise Fins goverment, and created “psiaudo” goverment in Moscow, staged attack on their own border patrol, and went “TO FREE Findland form capitalist opressors of working class” and bringing in power “elected right officilias of Finland people”
So again whats your question, listen to WHAT? Capitulation? Let the killings of their people? You are stupid of what? Who these volunteers who will die for “you need just to listen, “Party wants, party needs”?
The rest your nonsense, is no point of commenting, its just insanity and stupidity.
BTW, ye very good option, surrender and maybe you wont be killed or starved to death, maybe you will get luck, you know just take it easy.
PS> It slike these Russian Z patriots, who celebrated war in Ukraine, but when regime CALLED mobiliazation most of keyboard warriors and Z patriots, flooded Russian borders and removed Z signs, they decided to not sacriface theirs life and fight for Russian Empire.
“So if someone armed broke to your house, you cant resist, just listen to them , meybe you will have luck and they wont kill you LOL.”
That’s how stupid some of these Putin defenders are. Thanks for pointing that out.
“So if someone armed broke to your house, you cant resist, just listen to them , meybe you will have luck and they wont kill you LOL.”
That is exactly what you to preserve your life if they have a gun and you don’t. Or if they have a gun and you only have a baseball bat. Common sense.
“If someone … ” That sounds almost like a fair fight.
How about if ten guys with shotguns broke into your house and said “Give us $5000 dollars or we kill you, put your family into the basement, and burn the house.”
Anybody who fought back would be considered a complete idiot.
Just calling 911 would be stupid.
Since the guys with overwhelming force have made you an offer which spares you and your family, you would be crazy to not accept it.
Look how enthused the French were in 1914. They would finally avenge their national honor and get Alace-Lorraine back.
Only idiots proclaim they will not surrender an inch of sacred national soil, no matter what the price. National honor must be maintained.
I grow weary of the Finns being used as a good example. They poked the bear, got badly beaten (“But, you should have seen the other guy!” You would have to be crazy to be proud of the Winter War.), then joined with the Nazi’s to fight Russia again.
I would call that breaking a peace treaty and showing bad faith.
Maybe Stalin should have done a holodomor on them. By that time, who could have blamed him?
Please note: I live in a country (USA) where anybody who waves the American flag is assumed to be a domestic terrorist by the US government.
The might makes right school of foreign relations.
copied directly FROM the usa handbook
Putin ought to take a lesson from Biden and announce that Russia will completely withdraw from Ukraine just as fast as possible, like Biden did in Afghanistan.
Appeasement is the current USA handbook. That’s what Putin would do if he were following our handbook.
I see you are still upset that the US opposed communist revolutionaries.
On the other hand, Soviet funding and training of said revolutionaries was never a problem for you.
“When a huge neighbor want’s to talk, you should listen.”
Ukraine should listen to Putin dictats? I don’t think so.
Ukraine didn’t listen, and now Russia is paying the price, too. Russian troops withdrawing in the face of Ukrainian military action. It must be really humiliating for all those on the Russian side.
Who will fear this huge neighbor in the future? Why would they fear an incompetent Russian military? The more the Russians do, the weaker they appear.
It’s a good thing Putin has nukes or he personally would be in big trouble. The Ukrainians would be coming for him. They would be knocking on his front door.
And there are idiots on the website defending this psychopath Putin. How delusional are you guys? Answer: Pretty damn delusional. Dangerously so, if you had the power to influence events. Which you don’t.
I just have a hard time putting myself in the place of someone who would defend a mass murderer like Vladimir Putin. In fact, it’s impossible for me because I dwell in reality and I hate people who kill innocent people, like Putin does You should hate them, too. Because they will kill you just as quickly as they would kill anyone else who got in their way. You are defending these kinds of people? Delusional.
Russia is not going to go away. In ten years time the political situation in the EU and in the USA will likely be very different from what it is today.
The USA has certainly shown no hesitation to just dump allies it was no longer interested in, mainly due to domestic political concerns. Remember our South Vietnamese allies? We couldn’t wait to offshore manufacturing to Vietnam after North Vietnam broke the peace treaty and toppled the South Vietnamese govt.
If you hate people who kill innocent people, do you hate FDR? He killed hundreds of thousands of innocent Germans and Japanese civilians.
Putin opposes the US which means he’s one of the good guys.
Any evidence to the contrary is just a CIA plot.
When a huge neighbor want’s to talk, you should listen.
That sounds a lot like a “might makes right” argument
International relations are not governed by some sort of supranational authority which sets the rules and makes everybody comply. The League of Nations was supposed to that. How did that turn out?
International relations are all based on power.
Fascinating how the when Russia bullies it’s neighbors, it’s just how international relationships work.
Yet every time the US disagrees with somebody, it’s condemned by the same people as US bullying.
If Mexico or Canada had decided to join the Warsaw Pact during the cold war, I think the USA would have engaged in some “bullying” of its neighbors.
In recent times we have invaded nearby countries (Grenada, Panama,Cuba) when we have not liked their internal or external policies. We threatened nuclear war over Cuba’s foreign policy. We currently have heavy sanctions on Venezuela because we don’t like their government.
When the USA disagrees with somebody, that somebody is often a country 1000 miles from our shores. We destroyed the Libyan govt and killed its President because we decided to take the rebel side in a strictly internal civil war in that country and sided with the Islamic fundamentalists against a secular central government.
We currently are fighting a war in Syria against the legal government (secular) in cooperation with Islamic fundamentalists for reasons which have never been clearly explained, let alone debated. All of these military actions are without a declaration of war.
There are other, more egregious examples. They include Iraq and Afghanistan.
Our elected politicians seem terrified of opposing the military industrial complex.
We in US and U.K. have a military that is out of control and outside of any democratic oversight. Most people just don’t know or care what they are doing. Which suits them fine. We’ve fallen into a de facto military dictatorship through apathy and laziness. Well now we’re paying the price. In 50 years the world won’t be speaking english anymore.
Yes, we Finns are still here – even after 1000+ years of wars against first Novgorodians and then Russians. Exact number of wars is not known but the likely number is somewhere around 20-40. It is kind of embedded in our genes that you should not trust Russians – and we of course have lot’s experience what it is like to be under Russian yoke. One of the worst events was the Great Wrath (there were also Old, Long and Little Wraths) during the Great Northern War in 18th century – after that only about 1/3 of the population was left, 10000s were taken as slaves (many (esp. young girls and boys) were sold to middle east countries), and many more killed and tortured to death.
Well, we did take Moscow once – large part / most of the Jacob de la Gardie’s troops were Finns – so it was not one sided struggle all the time.
What comes to more recent history – well, Baltic countries did listen to Stalin’s requests, allowed the Red Army to establish military bases inside their borders – and then “decided to join” Soviet Union (a company of armed Soviet soldiers ensuring that the parliament makes the “right” decision). No one in Baltic countries think that they made a better decision than Finland.
Even if you ignore all the other things like living under Russian communist dictatorship for decades, one number is quite revealing – if you compare the population of Finland and Estonia before WW 2 and now – there should be 1.5 times more Estonians as there are today. That’s the price of “listening to Russians”.
During the cold war, I recall a Finnish high ranking General said something like this: “Finland has fought 5 (?4-6) wars with Russia, and has lost everyone. A bedrock principle of Finnish foreign policy is not to go to war with Russia.”
Everybody now in Europe is talking tough regarding the Russians because they think the USA is in the tank for war against Russia. That might change.
During the cold war the Finno-Soviet treaty called Agreement of Friendship, Cooperation, and Mutual Assistance was in force which meant that Finland had to be as friendly and cooperative with Soviets or else face the “mutual assistance” (that is the Red Army in Helsinki). Thus, the highest ranking generals were hand picked to ensure that they would cause any raised eyebrows in Moscow. In fact, couple of times the Chief of Defense was considered so compromised (by the soviets) that he was cut of all the relevant stuff by lower ranking generals and colonels (that was how Finnish covert SIGINT unit, Viestikoelaitos, kept spying Soviets and delivered all the information to USA – in exchange for state-of-the-art SIGINT gear).
Well, there is one anecdote about Finnish generals – one British diplomat asked gen. Adolf Ehrnrooth about how many Soviet troops are stationed in Finland – Ehrnrooth replied that 500000 – and the diplomat wanted to know where they were stationed – the reply was “6 feet under ground”.
What comes to wars against eastern aggressors – well, as as an independent nation Finland has existed only since 1917 but we have been here 1000s of years before that – the first known incident is likely in 1042 when the prince of Novgorod Vladimir Yaroslavich made a campaign against Finns. Well, there is of course some stories about earlier wars with Vikings, e.g., Finnish king Matul supporting Bjarms against Ragnar Lodbrok.
Half of Russia was once inhabited by the Finno-Ugric people.
One additional thing about Finland during cold war – of course, the policy was not go war with Russia – nor with anyone else. But we lived under constant threat and everyone knew that if there would have been major European war, Soviets would have rushed in Finland to get buffer zone and a base to continue attack to Norway and Sweden.
I did my compulsory military service in late 1980s in armored brigade and while we all knew how bad our equipment was, most of us would have fight against Soviets. Furthermore, everyone knew that the only threat was from east and that all talk about “friendship” etc. with Soviets was just bullsh*t. This was quite clear in all military planning and exercises – we were preparing to fight against mechanized major power army with heavy air support – and that wouldn’t have been Sweden nor Norway…
It is crazy to keep losing and dying.
So they should just surrender and die?
That seems to be the only option the Putin supporters favor.
You do not have to be a Putin supporter to have common sense. Ukraine has no chance of defeating Russia. They will lose troops far faster than Russia will. That’s a slow motion loss and it makes no sense.
Surrender and live.
Russian history shows that not too many of those who surrender are allowed to live. The rest are effectively enslaved.
Russia did not kill the East Germans after Germany killed about 27 million Russians
Confession by projection. It was the Germans in WW2 whose plan for Russia was literal enslavement of their entire population.
Recent events have made it clear that in their hearts most westerners are Nazis like the Ukrainians that they are supporting. That despite beating the Nazis militarily they subsequently became besotted by the Nazis and wanted to become Nazis themselves.
Now this dream has come true. We’re all Nazis now! WW2 was for nothing and Hitler won. Soon Biden will issue an official US apology to Germany for fighting on the wrong side in WW2. All those buried at Omaha beach will be reviled as Putin puppets. Germany already have their official reply prepared: “not a biggie!”
Losing? Are you referring to the Ukrainians?
Russian troops are currently withdrawing from Kherson.
It looks to me like it is the Russians who are losing and dying.
All self-inflicted by Vladimir Putin.
US environment groups (leftists) take funds from Russia, not Republicans.
Mich McConnell is married to a girl from Taiwan whose father came from China. The father is a billionaire, money he made by running a shipping company closely tied to the Chinese Communist government. Mich has gotten millions from his father in law.
Yes, Mitch seems to be a little too cozy with the Chicoms.
I’m not accusing Mitch of doing anything illegal but he does have a cozy relationship with China, which we should all be leery of, considering current circumstances, where the Chicoms are trying to infiltrate every aspect of our society.
His wife has served in government positions. She was Sec Trans I believe under Trump. She supports the Belt and Road program.
There is no doubt that China has bought our politicians.
and the clintons took russian “donations” to their slushfund and bill got lucrative speaking money from there remember Uranium one?
probably not cos it was hushed up then clintons offshored their trust to canada to avoid FOI requests.
look who rushed in ukraine in 14 to try n get the land and oil
except they got it wrong 😉 and of course bidens rosemount and other “investment cos” arent at all shonky neither is Hunter.
remember Seth Rich? exposing clintons and oddly shot from behind not robbed and enquiry clamped down on, now fbi etc wanting a 70yr or so secrecy on it
really?
Let’s hope the Republicans get the majority in one or both Houses of Congress and then we can look into everything the Clintons, the Obama’s and the Biden’s did in Ukraine and everywhere else around the world.
We want to know everything about what these Democrat criminals did while in power.
If Mitch controls the Senate, don’t expect anything.
It’s a curious kind of invasion when the soldiers doing the invading of the territories of the Donbas are the residents of Donbas. It’s like the New York Giants invading New York. Or the Boston Red Socks invading Boston. What kind of invasion is that? Isn’t an invasion when a territory is attacked by people coming from somewhere else? OK the Donbas folks are getting help from evil Russia. But ukraine are also getting help from sweet and lovely America so that doesn’t count I guess.
This Donbas war is a colonial war on the side of western backed ukraine. It’s like Britain fighting to keep Northern Ireland or the Falkland Islands British. Or the French fighting to keep Algeria French, etc. To keep control of a country against the wishes of the vast majority of its inhabitants.
Z said, “climate change policy is impossible without peace.”
Too complicated. Should have just said, “climate change policy is impossible.”
I don’t know … he has a bit of a good point.
During times of war, the predominant climate change policies are such that they would cause everyone to see the futility of the harmful policies (especially when at war with an entity that doesn’t waste resources on goofy ‘climate change policies’.)
During times of peace, the overall impacts of those same policies can be hidden, a little better, by the zealots.
And, during times of peas, nitrogen is added to the soils so you can then efficiently rotate to oats or sorghum.
DonM
Visualize whirled peas!
The only one talking about a “blank check” is Kevin McCarthy. I wonder if he knows what a strawman argument is.
McCarthy is just trying to impress upon us that he will be frugal with our tax money. That doesn’t mean some of that money won’t go to Ukraine.
UK lack of gas is self inflicted. Zelensky is playing the climate card, does he have many other options?
My wife and her entire family are Ukrainian and I don’t support blindly supporting them. The Russians aren’t angels, but neither are the Ukrainians. Their militias are largely bands of Nazis who were brutalizing the people of Russian heritage living in eastern Ukraine. They are arguably the most corrupt country in Europe and many of our politicians (in both parties) have enriched themselves with kickbacks received from all of the foreign aid we have foolishly provided. Our worthless Pentagon has just sent Americans onto Ukraine soil ostensibly to do an audit of where all of our weapons have gone as many have supposedly ended up in other countries like Finland. Isn’t that something our hapless buffoons should’ve done before sending the weapons and aid in the first place?
Democrats went apoplectic about giving Trump $7 billion to finish our southern wall, but have spent multiple tens of billions to secure Ukraine’s borders.
That a small percentage of Ukrainian troops were Nazis was never in doubt. That most of the Ukrainian military is made up of Nazis is just Russian propaganda.
You seem to feel that being corrupt is justification for the Russian invasion.
By that standard, the Biden crime family corruption would justify Mexico invading the US.
”. That most of the Ukrainian military is made up of Nazis is just Russian propaganda.”
Yep and the fact that many people cannot see past this is mystifying.
People see what they want to see.
What is your argument against invading Mexico, again?
Ye ye, how wbout mazgavoi, Batia, Limonov, Rogozin and bounch of others? What name of Brigade who where in Liman? And th rest “Ruskij division” who fighing for “Rissian being white”? Limonov who adopten “Main Kampf” and Rusian ethnic superiority? You just missed them? Like always, everybody is just nazies.
OR gtfo.
BTW, Thsese tales about russian “opressed” minotiries is trash, it was in Baltic states, now in Kazakhstan, Georgia, Azeirbajan.
But most funny think, that Russia bascialy WIPED and KILLED eastern Ukrains so called opressed russians in the name by protecting them :D, there was most people living, Mariuopol, Liman, Xarkiev, Cherson and so on. Logical falacity lol
“The Russians aren’t angels, but neither are the Ukrainians. Their militias are largely bands of Nazis”
And? No Nazis in Russia?
Actual catastrophic anthropgenic climate change (e.g. coups without borders) forced by illegitimate regimes in Kiev, disenfranchisement of 1/2 of Ukrainans, denial of essential services with affirmative action action in Crimea, a Slavic Spring with “benefits” that has lead to mass/diverse (numeric, not color) abortion of lives in Donbas etc., so terminate the war and reject the aligned axes forces that have assaulted your fellow Ukrainians, eight years in progress.
Zelensky doesn”t give a crap about CC. He saw another opportunity to boost or continue support and went for it. If I had an Iranian drone flying over head I would do the same.
he reminds me of the bad dudes in Batman and also Napoleon
so far usa given billions and paying monthly to keep em afloat so is UK it seems paying 2.5k a month for their comms via starlink(odd when anyone else apparently pays 110 a month)
eus just approved a huge loan with no interest payback till 2030 something
weapons given to ukies already found in sweden finland and elsewhere sold off
seeing as usa started the sh*tfight in ukraine back in their revolution in early 2000s throwing out one crim and replacing with a crim of usa choice
remember Vikky newland
fVk the EU?
well they sure HAVE now;-))
Yes, the Republicans will have a few questions for Victoria Nuland starting in January.
May I get some information on why my polite comments so often get automatically placed into moderation, and usually never shows up again?
I leave comments on many other websites that never get censored. Only here, and only after the recent registration changes.
Only one of my five censored comments in the past two days ever showed up for others to read.
Does this have anything to do with the length of the comment?
They do not include links or any controversial words.
What are the rules?
There is a theory that we have guaranteed Ukraine’s borders and so we are supposed to do anything and everything to restore those, but I don’t know of a precedent.
Ukraine is not part of a Western military alliance.
Who needs climate action when we can have war with Russia??