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Essay by Eric Worrall
According to Wikipedia, since 1952 Pakistan has received 22 IMF bailouts, substantially funded by the USA. But apparently the USA is still liable for climate reparations.
Pakistan floods revive a debate: Should U.S. pay for climate disasters?
Even as Pakistan turns to donors around the world asking aid to cope with deadly and costly flooding, many politicians and activists demand the United States and others compensate poor nations for global warming damages
By Shannon Osaka
August 29, 2022 at 5:00 p.m. EDTSince mid-June, torrential rain has changed the landscape of Pakistan, submerging villages and fields, destroying homes and killing at least 1,000 people. But if the human toll is catastrophic, the financial toll is almost unimaginable: According to Pakistan’s finance minister, the damage so far will likely exceed $10 billion, or a whopping 4 percent of the country’s annual gross domestic product.
“Pakistan was already facing the disastrous effects of climate change,” Sherry Rehman, Pakistan’s minister of climate change, said at a news conference on Thursday. “Now the most devastating monsoon rains in a decade are causing incessant destruction across the country.”
But even as Pakistan turns to donors around the world asking for aid, there is one thing that the country will almost certainly not receive: Compensation from the countries — including the United States — thatare most responsible for planet-warming greenhouse gas emissions.
…
One of the key issues is liability. U.S. delegates fear that if a formal loss-and-damage fund is created, the United States could open itself up to litigation from poorer countries. “We always remain thoughtful about the issue of liability,” John F. Kerry, the U.S. international climate envoy, said during the Glasgow summit.
…
Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2022/08/29/pakistan-floods-climate-change/
On the bright side it is good to read that for once John Kerry resisted handing over large sums of US taxpayer’s money.
But the question – should Pakistan receive climate change aid, or any further aid?
One of the main reasons Pakistan is so bankrupt, aside from their eyewatering corruption, is they spend crazy amounts of money funding a large military and a nuclear weapons programme.
They also likely give large sums to America’s enemies. Pakistan’a security service helped set up the Taliban, but according to some sources Pakistan continues to maintain high level links. The Taliban might have begun as a US supported resistance movement against Soviet occupation of Afghanistan – but in my opinion the Taliban have long outlived their value to Western interests.
Any international aid money Pakistan receives, regardless of what excuse is given for handing over the cash, there is a real risk most of it will be stolen, and much of the remainder will be split between funding their excessive military, and supporting America’s enemies. Very little if any, in my opinion, would reach the destitute people who could actually use some help.
I think most of us can think of better uses for US taxpayer’s money, than funding Pakistans’s corrupt elites, and funding their hostile geopolitical games.
If despite this you still want to help, and believe even if only pennies in the dollar get through it is still worth sending aid to Pakistan flood victims, I recommend you read African economic expert James Shikwati’s Der Spiegel interview “For God’s Sake, Please Stop the Aid!“. The corrupt kleptocrats who are the real principals of ordinary people’s suffering, having wrecked their own nation’s economy, utterly depend on outside aid money to survive.
Sending money for whatever reason just perpetuates the misery, and impedes the development of a more functional, responsive Pakistani government. In my opinion, the suffering of ordinary people is a fundraising theatrical prop to the people who currently run Pakistan. None of the previous 22 IMF bailouts and who knows what other handouts helped improve the lives of ordinary Pakistanis. Why would yet another handout, whether it be a climate reparation or flood relief or another IMF bailout, produce a different outcome to all the previous handouts?
Amen.
If it is a question of added CO2 load into the atmosphere, China adds more than Twice what the USA does. In fact, China adds more CO2 annually than the next TEN contributors combined. If the USA owes Pakistan climate reparations, China owes them more than twice as much. Extort China First…good luck.
No kidding, and all other countries do, too. The US should be the last to pay up for imagined “sins.”
U.S. Cuts ‘Global Warming’ Gases Faster Than Anyone Else, But Media Ignore It
https://bit.ly/3aeUBhx
04/20/2018
…And no, we’re not claiming this as a victory for Donald Trump or anyone else in government. It’s due to fracking and the replacement of high-CO2 fuels like coal with far-cleaner natural gas.
That trend can be seen in another data series, which shows that emissions in the electric power sector plunged 25% since 2005, an unprecedented amount.
“This report confirms the president’s critics are wrong again: one-size-fits-all regulations like the Clean Power Plan or misguided international agreements like the Paris Accords are not the solution,” said EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt. “The U.S. has reduced greenhouse gas emissions more than any country on Earth over the last decade.”
Pakistan is a failed state with nuclear weapons. Scary thought!
Pakistan needs to pay back big loans for the China – Pakistan CPEC road project to Beijing; more US money would be handy.
Make the Pakistani military deal with the Taliban first.
The Taliban are a wholly owned subsidiary of the Pakistani military.
The Pakistani miliatary likes the way the Taliban are handling things.
Pakistan/india border is very long and Pakistan thinks they need to pay attention to it.
As long as Afghanistan is a country run by 19th century norms & 20th century weapons technology, then Pakistan doesn’t have to put any significant effort into the common border. As long as the Taliban run Afgahnistan, Pakistan does not need to worry about having a second neighbor like India.
Remind me, what country was Osama Bin Laden holed up in when he was delivered some justice? Pakistan? Go figure.
Yes, and given Osama operated from Afghanistan when he plotted the 9/11 attacks and, then, ended up in Pakistan, can someone, please, explain to me why GWB decided to attack Iraq over it?
I have a son who was USMC, now separated, who fought in Iraq and came back but with a 20% disability (but, unlike so many others, he did come back) and would really like to know why he and so many others were sent to Iraq and why I went through months of hell while he was there.
The only positive thing for me I can see about it is that it did make dealing with my breast cancer a piece of cake as I didn’t have time to worry about myself and had nightmares about seeing two uniformed Marines showing up at my door. I didn’t and for that, I will be forever grateful.
Move the Washington comPost to Paki Land.
While I’d love to see that, Antigriff, I’m shocked Kerry and the WaPo didn’t jump at the chance to put US taxpayers on the hook for our breathing. Got to give them some credit here, though, I can’t imagine why they didn’t jump on this. Maybe the looming mid-term elections aided their decision making?
This seems like a great cause for what’s his name………oh yea Justincompetent Trudeau.
He likes giving to anyone who will take his picture and he has millions to give away while Canada has broken infrastructures, a broken health service and a terrible education system. But we have thousands of unemployed and unemployable refugees.
I am surprised he didn’t apologize yet.
Sparkle Socks: “On behalf of all Canadians I
proudlyhumbly apologize.”Pakistan: Apologize?!? For what?
Justin Neauclu: “Give me a minute. I’ll think of something… but I’m so very sorry.”
Pakistan: No matter. Just write out the @&%# cheque!
As solar intensity increases over the NH during the spring/summer more ocean surface will reach the 30C limit and sustain monsoon for longer.
The Mediterranean is also getting very close to the 30C limit this time of year. It is a large enough body of water to sustain its own weather system similar to the Arabian Sea that drives the Indian Monsoon. Pakistan should expect more torrential rain. The Northern Sahara will also experience monsoon as the Med hits the 30C limit.
In May this year, the entire northern Indian Ocean was approaching, at or even above the 30C limit in May. That sends a huge amount of water into the atmosphere that ends up over India and Pakistan a few months later. There is nothing to prevent the entire surface area of the Arabian Sea and Bat of Bengal reaching 30C as the solar intensity increases.
Reducing atmospheric CO2 is not going to change this trend in any way. If all economic activity was halted today, Pakistan will continue to have increasing rain for at least the next 6,000 years. The April solar intensity at 15N will rise from the present average of 435W/m^2 to 448W/m^2. The minimum April insolation at this latitude was 420W/m^2 5,000 years ago.
“Reducing atmospheric CO2 is not going to change this trend in any way. If all economic activity was halted today, Pakistan will continue to have increasing rain for at least the next 6,000 years.”
RickWill, I wholeheartedly agree that CO2 has nothing to do with this but, please, help me understand why this situation will continue for 6000 years. I don’t get that. Thanks.
It is a consequence of orbital changes. The dominating component over millennia is precession.
April at latitude 15N has been increasing in sunlight for 5,000 years and will continue to do so for the next 6,000 years. The cycle averages about 23,000 years so the warming extends over an 11,000 year period.
There is a good web based insolation generator here:
http://vo.imcce.fr/insola/earth/online/earth/online/index.php
Select the starting time at -0.01 and finish time at 0.01 with 100 year interval. Then choose mean monthly insolation, 15N and month 4. When you “Compute” the result will be a simple table for the last 10,000 years to the next 10,000 years at 100 year intervals based on the year 2000 being zero.
This is the reason the Northern Hemisphere is warming and the Southern Ocean is cooling. The Equatorial region is stuck near the OST limit of 30C so not much change there.
‘It is a consequence of orbital changes. The dominating component over millennia is precession.’
Okay. Let’s stipulate that orbital mechanics effect climate over very long periods. Let’s also stipulate that anthropogenic CO2 has no impact on climate. What causes the areal extent of 30C or 1.4C water to change over shorter timeframes, e.g., the Medieval Warm Period or the Little Ice Age?
Obviously this is a tragedy but all Countries with rapidly increasing populations will put infrastructure and population in unsuitable places as safe space diminishes..
The Pakistan Prime Minister has said these are the worst floods for 30 years. Here is the population increase ion that country from 1950 onwards. Then it was 40 million, it is now approaching 240 million.
Pakistan Population 1950-2022 | MacroTrends
Here in the UK we have seen the problems that result from pushing population next to rivers or the sea although in the case of the West many want to live there and expect appropriate protection.
Clearly the population of Pakistan has increased way beyond the capabilities of its government to ensure its people are safe. Its little to do with climate change.
tonyb
Allowing construction on dry river and lake beds didn’t help flood security.
Some sanity however prevails –
“But meteorological factors in place also have been pointing to a very high-risk rainy season, such as the vigor with which the current La Nina has been persisting since 2020.”
https://pakobserver.net/pak-historic-flood-catastrophe-should-have-been-seen-coming-by-raja-shahzeb-khan/
Are you kidding. Pakistan is the mortal enemy of the United States. We should be bombing them not sending them money.
Pakistan was a somewhat helpful bulwark against the USSR and a ‘non-aligned’ India during the depths of the Cold War. Since then, it’s become a full-blown Sharia State and we’ve become Commies, so best to leave them to their own devices.
Please, it’s the Washington Pustule bursting with stinking yellow news!!
If you’re going to blame CO2 emissions, China is much closer. So is India.
Biden should gather some illegal immigrants and ship them off to Pakistan to help with the flood damage. No need to thank us this one is on us.
Sure, we might consider this suggestion, but it would naturally come with conditions.
1. Demonstrate that catastrophic flooding never occurred in Pakistan prior to the middle of the 20th century.
2. Demonstrate what fraction of current flooding is in addition to any natural flooding.
3. Calculate whatever you think the anthropogenic fraction of current observed weather is, and divide 330 million by 8 billion. That’s our fraction of the global population.
4. Subtract any money we’re already given you. If your balance is negative, it means that you owe us, which you do. Plus we provided the service of pest extermination a la Bin Laden, but you can put that on an extended payment plan…
> Demonstrate that catastrophic flooding never occurred in Pakistan prior to the middle of the 20th century.
That would be a bit difficult, Pakistan didn’t exist prior to 1947 🙂
It was there but not called Pakistan.
Interestingly, the BBC described it as “the worst monsoon rains for over a decade”, and mentioned the flooding of 2010 which was worse in extent and fatalities. Then they quoted people as stating that this had “never been seen before,” in the very same article!
It’s sometimes difficult to keep the narrative straight…
On the 5 p.m. news on Radio 4 (not sure of the exact time, I was driving on a motorway), the presenter described the floods in Pakistan as the result of ‘the unprecedented climate catastrophe’. I would need to go back to be sure of the exact syllables, but that was the meaning. Is that worth a complaint? I mean really?
And demonstrate that the catastrophic flooding is not due to government’s incompetence in the maintenance of drains, dams, etc., and incompetent location of housing in flood plains.
This area has no drains, dams or tbf modern infrastructure of any kind. It would have made more sense spending the many trillions of unreliable energy fixing the third worlds infra.
Kerry knows that if every country can loot the U.S. Treasury there will be nothing left for the criminals in his party to continue doing that themselves.
Why not? It is just printed Monopoly money anyway.
I was thinking more along the lines of WaPo and their MSM cronies paying for all their lies. Paying dearly.
Excellent article!
Good grief, wonder of wonders, even John Kerry agrees! I can’t believe even Kerry is not eager to rob the US taxpayers of even more than Biden is already to give to a corrupt government whose kleptocracy steals the money and use it to fund themselves, the Taliban, their nuclear program and their military.
I guess Kerry, Biden and the rest of the US Kelptocracy couldn’t work a deal with Pakistan to get a big enough cut. Either that, or even they realized this was a bridge too far to sell to the US taxpayers.
Climate change is not difficult to predict….
More rain around the equator, drought on the higher latitude.
https://breadonthewater.co.za/2019/09/22/revisiting-the-87-year-gleissberg-solar-cycle/
“I think most of us can think of better uses for US taxpayer’s money, than funding
Pakistans’scorrupt elites, and funding their hostile geopolitical games.”Fixed it for you.
The USA is broke already. We don’t have any money to give yet morons continue spending as if we’re swimming in cash.
Governments should focus on doing what’s best for their citizens and that includes the USA.
The worst flooding in ten years? Does that even sound like climate change? Sounds to me like normal periodic flooding that any responsible society would prepare for.
My apologies for my postings below. I made the mistake of not reading the WaPo article first and assumed, erroneously, they were on-board with Kerry and gave them some credit for having some sense. I just read their idiotic linked article and, of course, they made no sense at all. To them, I say let Bezos take some of his billions and help Pakistan if he wants to see his money used to support the Taliban, stolen and wasted in the quixotic pursuit of controlling the climate. Leave the US taxpayer out of it.
I’m still shocked Kerry wasn’t on-board with it, though.
I guess the US (unwittingly) paid for their nuclear weapons, so why not pay for some rainy weather too?
In 1960 the population was 45,000,000
In 2022 the population is 220,000,000
About 2090 pop will plateau at 400,000,000
Meanwhile, the people are “flooding” {pun intended} on to low water torrents-susceptible lands.
Climate change is not the problem.
They want my money! I think not.
Exactly…
Hopefully see attached a screenshot of Pakistan.
Pakistan is a desert apart from where the Indus drains the desert.
Then, go visit that place with the Google satellite and zoom right in onto the ground of the ‘green patch’
You will see a patchwork of fields. Those are people’s farms and the Family Inheritance traditions of that part of the world means that those farms get smaller and smaller with each generation. A quick ‘measure distance’ says that they are about 40 to 50 metres on a side
(There is no Primogeniture principle, everything is divided equally amongst the children)
Thus each farm is about the size of 10 UK allotments
Some are much greener than others, some are completely brown like the rest of the desert.
Patently thus they are artificially irrigated/watered and the small size compounded by the growing population means that those patches of ground are “Worked Very Hard”
There is Soil Erosion
There is your flood
Even before (just eyeballing) 75% of the entire country is a total desert wasteland that drains into the Indus – where all the people live. The Indus Valley has been turned into a storm drain and every new generation works fervently to increase its flow capacity – hence the contemporary floods at its lower reaches.
How can anybody be surprised at what happened? (Apart from liars and virtue signallers)
Even worse, what sort of mental dysfunction ignores that, then goes on to blame everybody else for releasing CO2 and THEN, imagines that truckloads of Free Money will fix an immensely deep-rooted and 3-pronged problem:
Oh hi Noah, what you doing round here?
Not thinking of building a boat by any chance?
Oh, that’s nice.
Where you gonna sail it too?
This reminds me of that other great scam the AGWers pulled way back when. The scams being engaged in by the CC AGWers would make the Mafia blush with feelings of incompetence.
On September 26, 1988, experts predicted the 1,196 islands of the Maldives would drown in the next thirty years. That date has passed, and they only missed by 1,196 islands.
https://bit.ly/3wpW54f
10/2/18
TWO years on from the drowning of the Maldives, the situation is dire…
Maldives to open four new airports in 2020 – Maldives Insider
MALDIVES : SEA-LEVEL RISE TREND
THE Maldives have remained at just one meter above sea level for centuries with no noticeable change.
NOAA tidal gauge reading shows Maldives SLR running around the global average at 3.69 millimeters/year, with no acceleration this century at the same time as CO2 emissions have risen significantly.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-19/fact-check-is-the-island-nation-tuvalu-growing/10627318
Not only no, but hell no. If the floods are related to Climate Change (TM), then let the PRC provide the funds – they are the cause.
“Now the most devastating monsoon rains in a decade are causing incessant destruction across the country.”
So it was just as bad ~10 years ago?
Simply asking the question puts the likely answer in proper context.
The whole history of Pakistan’s existence is defined by floods.
“According to the Federal Flood Commission (FFC) report Pakistan has witnessed 20 major floods; in 1950, 1955, 1956, 1957, 1959, 1973, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1981, 1983, 1984, 1988, 1992, 1994, 1995, 2010, 2011 and 2012.”
1950 had almost 2200 deaths.
Exploding population, poor building standards in all the wrong places, massive corruption with $millions supposedly for new flood defences vanishing, poor/no maintenance of existing defences despite the cash being paid.
Yer sure, USA to blame, climate change causes it all. What a load of….
The whole media/climacatastrophist cabal are beyond myopic.
There is nothing whatever stopping Washington post readers from putting their hands in their pockets and making donations to Pakistan. I wonder how many have bothered? He is after all so much easier to pass the buck to someone else.
“KARACHI, Pakistan, Aug. 22 —Rising floodwaters have no engulfed the second most populous province of Pakistan.
With the collapse of the last protective embankment on the Indus River in the province of Sind, the situation there has become “extremely serious,” according to Pakistan’s Finance Minister, Dr. Mubashir Hasan, who is in charge of flood‐control measures.
After overflowing an embankment near Sukkur, about 250 miles northeast of Karachi, the river inundated several towns and hundreds of villages. Preliminary reports said that at least 2 million people in the region had been made homeless.
Reports from the previously stricken and most populous province, Punjab, put the death toll there at 2,000, with many more reported missing.”
Oh wait, that was 1973.
https://www.nytimes.com/1973/08/23/archives/flood-situation-in-pakistan-is-called-extremely-serious.html
“KARACHI: The devastation from Pakistan’s “worst floods in living memory” could have been contained had flood-prevention projects been put in place, experts say.
The government claims that nothing could have prevented the floods that have killed more than 1,600 people and made over a million people homeless.
“These are not the country’s worst floods,” stresses irrigation expert Idrees Rajput, also a former member of the Sindh government. “Water levels in Sindh rose to similar high floods in 1992 and 1976 but the impact was not as huge. This time, flooding has been exacerbated only due to decades of government corruption and neglect.”
Oh wait, that was 2010
https://tribune.com.pk/story/42350/these-are-not-pakistan%E2%80%99s-worst-floods
As the French would say: Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose
from old newspaper snips ive read this is just the usual for that area
Im sure that TROVE would have quite a lot of past records of same water n death tolls.
i do remember saying that the whinging greens were making a whip that would be used BY3rd worlders to claim compensation for imaginary climate damages
and kiribas tuvalu and a pile of others are on the bandwagon already.
some jerk(swedish I think) was on todays radio ABC saying their models….showed greenland ice was going to flood +others and woe woe to all ad nauseum once again
Sorry to steal someone’s thunder but; “Is that a fact or did you only hear it on the ABC “
Monsoon rains happen so we should pay for them. Makes sense.
CC is complete nonsense in this case. The populated areas are built on the floodplain of more than one river to take advantage of the soil brought by the floods. Thousands of farmers with shovels busily dig their trenches to alternately gain soil in the next flood, or drain floodwaters away quicker to start their crops, thereby causing more flooding downstream. This has been their agricultural method for at least a couple of thousand years, and has been highly successful judging from their population. If the government can get a bunch of CC money from stupid Western governments, they go for it.
Simple answer to the question asked by the article…NO. Hell no.
The US is not the welfare provider for the world. We have folks here who could use some help before we ever consider other nations to support.
It is an interesting year for significant floods and droughts and I remain confident there are natural explanations. Until such time as there are clearly delectable trends in floods and droughts (IPCC and others don’t find them), this is just bad weather. It doesn’t diminish the impact on poor populations with few resources to help themselves, and whose governments are more intent on their own well-being, but it won’t help those most affected to pretend this is part of some climate armageddon rather than a failure of planning and infrastructure build.
Look at the geography. Practically the entire Pakistani population lives inside of the huge floodplain of the Indus River and it’s tributaries. It has always flooded and always will flood. If they would but recognize this and act accordingly, their cities, towns and farms should be in a long-term public works program aimed at water supply and flood control. Meanwhile, their population has grown 75% since 2000. However, their leadership has apparently chosen a different path. Don’t blame the U.S. or anyone else for problems of their own making.
Flooding in the Indus Valley, who’d a thought.
And oh, by the way, the author of this claptrap says this about herself:
https://www.shannonosaka.com
A mindless, poorly educated idiot. She didn’t bother to spend even 10 minutes checking other sources about Pakistani geography, population and flood history before writing this stupid piece, nor did the WaPo “editors” who supposedly reviewed it before going to press. It took me less than 5 minutes on Google Earth to immediately see the real problems. This has ZERO to do with climate change.
Lies, lies, lies. Nothing more.
Since the US government is now comfortable with literally printing dollars by the trillion, why not?
No. We, the USA, should not pay for anyone’s climate problems. All of the climate models are fake.
It’s their own deforestation that’s contributed to these floods. They are the second worst in the world (or best I suppose, depending how you look at it).
They’ve been cutting down trees on an industrial scale for years. This from 2010:
https://www.dw.com/en/pakistan-floods-aggravated-by-deforestation-and-other-ecological-mistakes/a-5966095
The Washington Post should move to Pakistan.