From NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW THAT
MAY 1, 2022
By Paul Homewood
h/t frankobaysioFrank
It is frightening to think what would have happened with passengers on board.
An Electric Bus Caught Fire After Battery Explosion in Paris
A video recording shows the start of the fire which completely consumed an electric RATP bus on Friday 29 April. The incident caused no injuries. The bus burst into flames within seconds. This is what can be seen on the video that captured the very beginning of the fire of an electric vehicle of the RATP in Paris , this Friday, April 29. In the images, we can see a small explosion occur on the roof of the bus, where the batteries are located, followed by huge flames that spread to the entire body, at breakneck speed. This line 71 bus caught fire in the 13th arrondissement of Paris in the morning, mobilizing around thirty workers, according to the firefighters contacted by Le Parisien. It is a 100% electric vehicle, from the Bolloré brand Bluebus 5SE series, like the bus that burned down at the beginning of April .
This afternoon, the RATP decided to temporarily withdraw from circulation the 149 Bolloré electric bluebuses that circulate on its network.
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Had anybody been on that bus they would have been immolated. I wonder what the the people on that buses’ route think today?
Having pulled all the Bollore electric busses, what criteria will the powers that be use to decide if and when they are put back in service? Are there other types of electric busses in service now?
“The incident caused no injuries.” What about the people in surrounding high-rise buildings breathing in the toxic fumes from the battery fire?
they’ll probably wait awhile till all the broughaha has died down then sneak them back in service one or two at a time
Think about the liability issue here: the danger posed by the Bolloré “Bluebus” design has been demonstrated in practice, so now if such buses are returned to service and a similar battery fire/explosion happens on a bus carrying passengers, with some being severely injured or killed as a result, no jury could possible believe the operators were not aware of this possibility while still restoring the same design to service.
Risk of potential lawsuits involve both monetary fines and jail time. Although French law does not allow for award of punitive damages, there is this:
“The damages potentially recoverable against the manufacturer for product liability mainly concern the impairment of physical integrity (death or injury), and all the resulting damages, whether or not they have economic consequences. Damages can extend to medical or pharmaceutical expenses, expenses related to requiring assistance from a third person, moral prejudice (pain and suffering, compensation for disfigurement and loss of amenity), direct material prejudice (work disability) and indirect material prejudice (revenue loss of subsidies).
“. . . the maximum penalty for manslaughter, pursuant to Article 221-6 of the French Criminal Code is three years’ imprisonment as well as a €45,000 fine. If a prudential obligation has been voluntarily breached, the maximum penalty increases to five years’ imprisonment and a €75,000 fine.”
—https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=6f4fcb3a-3d61-4f14-9d9e-5f2403aa515b
I do not know to what degree having a governmental/governmental-like entity, such as the RATP in Paris, might mitigate the above liabilities possible against Bolloré, but I suspect it is not by much, if any.
I would not at all be surprised to see the single event documented in the above article be the end of Bolloré Bluebuses (as currently designed and manufactured) throughout France.
Thanks, Gordon: It is as I suspected.
Whereas in the US, Biden would simply issue an executive order permitting the operators of said buses waivers for the “taking” of an appropriate number of human lives. Essential to saving the planet, and so on and so forth, with a straight but befuddled face.
“if such buses are returned to service”
They are.
Won’t put lithium batteries in my boat because of this issue. Recharging lithium batteries were the likely cause of the fire on a dive boat off of Southern California that took 34 lives.
The batteries being charged on that dive boat that likely initiated the fire were the Lithium-Ion Polymer batteries in dive photography lights being charged by the passengers, not installed in the vessel itself. Most installed Lithium batteries on boats are Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) which are MUCH less likely to explode/burn in use or being charged. It is EXTREMELY important to understand the differences between the different chemistries when discussing “Lithium” batteries.
thank goodness for this insightful analysis! Now only China will be free of Russia’s domination of petro-based transport!
What? . . . you think that Paris only uses electricity, including electricity used to recharge EV bus batteries, from “renewables”?
BTW, Russia does not dominate “petro-based transport” . . . if any nation does, it’s most certainly the United States of America. Russia in a major supplier of natural gas and crude oil to Europe (making up about 45% and about 25% of all European imports, respectively) . . . nothing more and nothing less . . . oh, except for being the devil-incarnate on the planet right now.
Blowing a bit of smoke there, buddy.
People keep trying to compare a gas-powered car fire with an electric vehicle fire. When a gas-powered vehicle catches on fire, it is usually the engine and very little fuel is involved – you can easily put it out before it spreads. When an electric vehicle catches fire, it is usually the batteries and can’t be put out. It’s like their ‘gas tank’ decides to explode.
True: but do be careful, you might traumatise Griff!
ICE fires most often start in electrical wiring or due to friction, which is mostly due to loose parts on older, poorly maintained vehicles. Tires rubbing on hanging plastic can start a nice fire. The report reference by Duane has all the necessary statistics.
Convenient that a video was being made as the bus burst into flames. Do they have cameras everywhere constantly videoing everything?
Please see comments above in this thread. 🙂
These days, that’s pretty much a yes. Especially in downtown type areas.
“Do they have cameras everywhere constantly videoing everything?”
What rock have you been living under the past couple of decades. cameras are everywhere these days (at least in most cities in the western nations), and have been for several years now. Even rural folk commonly walk around with cameras in their pockets (IE smart phones) that they can use at a moments notice.
As quickly as the fire started without any warning and then spread the full length of the bus and then consumed the entire bus showering burning debris everywhere, and most certainly generating toxic gases, nobody would have gotten out of it if it had been full of passengers.
Always sit near an exit you can crash through or throw others through ahead of you. Use others’ bodies as a surfing medium. As learned in combat, always assume the worst and act accordingly. Don’t ever put your family in dangerous situations if you can avoid it and train them in what to do in different emergency situations. Carry a gun whenever you can. Be aware of your surroundings and anybody near you. And so on.
@mod
@author
You forgot the bus de la ligne 86 in boulevard Saint-Germain, April the 4th. Please update the article!
https://www.leparisien.fr/info-paris-ile-de-france-oise/transports/paris-un-bus-de-la-ratp-sembrase-sur-le-boulevard-saint-germain-04-04-2022-WJKY24BODFEBFJGVQGWCCMSNEY.php
The French have a history of lighting cars on fire during protests. If they keep buying EVs, accidental fires may surpass arson.
This…
I’ve wondered why the French don’t have Korans prominently visible in their cars. It would become very risky to burn a vehicle.
The very frequent occurrences (compared to car numbers in Paris) of fires of the Bolloré “Bluecar” rental cars were explained away as arson; but why would arsonists target specifically these electric rental cars?
In fact these cars have significant auto discharge when parked (source: https://www.automobile-magazine.fr/voitures-electriques/article/27264-les-anciennes-autolib-a-5-000-eur-sont-elles-une-bonne-affaire 😉 and were almost always plugged in when possible, probably causing some electrical issues.
The rental service was discontinued (July 2018), some used cars were sold, but I don’t think I have seen one in Paris since years.
It illustrates how very dangerous these electric vehicles are. If the bus had been packed with people, they all would have been dead. No time to escape.
Four seconds between the first puff of smoke and the cascade of sparks being visible from inside the bus.
Four seconds later the shower of sparks along the side of the bus is extremely intense, any side door would be pretty much out of action.
Another four seconds after that there is a serious shower of sparks over the front door – if one person hesitated running out it would block the exit.
Presumably the fumes were extremely toxic: I wonder how many people nearby will suffer appalling consequences!?
Worrying, yet itś not just electric busses cathing fire. Given its not a one off they need to solve this, After this and the melt down of the vehicle carrier in the Atlantic, the focus should now be on fixing batterie safety if EV is to become the standard.
trying to get out and al the burning debris falling would have been hellish, bad enough as it was. wonder what the toxic smoke levels were?
and our idiot premier in Vic aus wants to run a pile of these sad excuses
This fire has probably produced more genuine atmospheric pollution than all of the private jets that have flown to/from all of the 27 COP meetings.
With most green energy sources being intermittent, supplying continuous power requires storage. It seems to me when energy storage mechanisms fail, they do so violently, like this bus battery.
Several years ago I did some analysis of energy storage requirements for California using data from the California Energy Commission for 2017 (latest available at that time). I found that for each hour of backup, the energy stored was equal to 2 Hiroshima sized bombs.
Am I missing something? Is this really OK?
Nope, not missing anything. Unlike the idiots that think it’s a great idea.
Seems to me they were lucky there was no one on board. Good way to kill everyone on board in 5 seconds.
Lithium battery makers face a choice of materials and aside from dramatically driving up lithium carbonate prices they have supply problems with nickel manganese and cobalt as you can tell-
Tesla May Consider Manganese Battery, According To Elon Musk (insideevs.com)
BYD with their blade LFP blade battery have the runaway lithium battery fire problem well under control-
The BYD Blade Battery Evaluated: The Hype is Real (Mostly) – YouTube
Big plus and as well they get around nickel manganese and cobalt cost and supply problems but using those packs a bigger punch. Always a matrix of tradeoffs to be juggled but thermal runaway is fast becoming the major consideration as the demise of the Felicity Ace demonstrated so poignantly. Ferries full of passengers and incendiary EVs or Grenfell Towers with the same charging in basements? Even Tesla are recognizing that can’t happen long term and the bus bonfires are just a reminder.
The irony of it all: Mundane local public safety standards might stop the widespread EV adoption being pushed by central governments. Public buses and parking garages are likely initial targets of safety campaigners.
Imagine the OK Corral scenario between the two different groups of safety activists vs climate activists! Popcorn time.
Remember the Hindenburg? Yeah. So, see, history does repeat itself.
If a passenger bus explosion/fire is so spectacular, what would a heavy duty truck fire look like? Has Tesla figured out the safety measures required for their oft-promised truck?
I got to wondering if they will be reselling these buses on the cheap to get rid of them… If so, I want one in time for the 4th of July celebrations. Best fountain I have ever seen.
Here’s what happens to EV sales without snouts in the taxpayer trough-
Tesla Thrives In Italy As Broader Plug-In Market Falls In March (msn.com)
Tesla dominates at the lux end of the market and there’s a serious fallacy of composition problem that taxpayers can subsidize 100% EVs as that’s a zero sum game.
When designing electronic equipment for the military you are very constrained to the type of insulation used for you wiring and cables. In enclosed spaces, fumes from burning plastic can be deadly. I wonder us buses, being public service vehicles need to be built from material that does not emit smoke and fumes when burning. Not just wiring, but the seats, plastic moldings on the interior sides and roof?
See what happens when you do not design well:
Toxic fumes cause fatalities and ruin equipment
The following three examples are times when corrosion and toxic fumes emitted by halogenated materials during a fire have attributed to human fatalities and the destruction of equipment: