From NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW THAT
MAY 1, 2022
By Paul Homewood
h/t frankobaysioFrank
It is frightening to think what would have happened with passengers on board.
An Electric Bus Caught Fire After Battery Explosion in Paris
A video recording shows the start of the fire which completely consumed an electric RATP bus on Friday 29 April. The incident caused no injuries. The bus burst into flames within seconds. This is what can be seen on the video that captured the very beginning of the fire of an electric vehicle of the RATP in Paris , this Friday, April 29. In the images, we can see a small explosion occur on the roof of the bus, where the batteries are located, followed by huge flames that spread to the entire body, at breakneck speed. This line 71 bus caught fire in the 13th arrondissement of Paris in the morning, mobilizing around thirty workers, according to the firefighters contacted by Le Parisien. It is a 100% electric vehicle, from the Bolloré brand Bluebus 5SE series, like the bus that burned down at the beginning of April .
This afternoon, the RATP decided to temporarily withdraw from circulation the 149 Bolloré electric bluebuses that circulate on its network.
It looks even worse than a Tesla fire
When will the President’s limo be converted to EV?
Comment self snipped. I should know better, but just barely.
Not soon enough. And are you sure you want it? Do you know anything about the VP?
If Harris were in the Limo with him… then we’d be stuck with Pelosi. All three are utterly horrifying.
Need to hold out for another nine months. The democratic majority in the House will be history by then.
They sure should be history. They’re shredding this nation, and all of us in the process. Repubs should take back Congress tho, at least if the Dems don’t steal key elections again. Sigh.
There is a movie coming out this week named “2000 Mules” that supposedly documents the corruption/criminality that took place during the 2020 U.S. election.
The “2000 Mules” refers to the people who were seen and photograhed hauling votes to drop boxes over and over and over again.
Be prepared for a huge outcry from the Left. They don’t like their criiminality being exposed.
Yep!! Heck, in multiple swing states the courts – including their Supreme Courts – have ruled that there were illegal and unconstitutional election law/procedure changes before the 2020 election that made tens of thousands (if not more) ballots essentially illegal – far more ballots than the number Biden ‘won’ by in those states. If those ballots weren’t counted, Biden wouldn’t have won.
In fact more than 2/3rds of the 60+ or so election lawsuits where the cases were actually heard based on their merits, and not just summarily dismissed, were ruled in favor of the GOP/Trump.
The left doesn’t care and keeps up the real “Big Lie” – e.g., that it was a free and fair election.
It’s pretty horrifying. We just don’t have a system that is set up to actually handle widespread fraud in an election.
“We just don’t have a system that is set up to actually handle widespread fraud in an election.”
The Democrats KNEW that and took advantage of i! Now, just TRY to overturn a fraudulent election! Since most of the courts are run by activist judges (Democrat) the Right doesn’t stand a chance! Future elections look mighty sketchy, from here!
d’Souza is a national treasure.
Perhaps wishful thinking, but I would expect that many of those who helped democrats get elected last time have children in school, has now been or know someone who’s a victim of crime, has a problem with illegal immigration, knows of someone who has died of a fentanyl overdose, is struggling with the rising cost of food and gasoline, etc.
They just may be working to guarantee that the democrats don’t win again.
Well, all the polls (I know, very unreliable) are sure showing that Repubs ought to clean up in the midterms. Support for Biden has plummeted – including down about 20 points (!!!) with blacks, and a huge amount with Hispanics too. So hopefully you’re exactly right and it’s not wishful thinking. There are estimates that the right may take as many as 70 House seats… In the Senate, unfortunately, there’s not as much opportunity. There are more Repubs up for re-election than Dems, and only small numbers on each side thought to be either toss up or “leans/likely” for either side. Don’t get me wrong – Repubs could well take the Senate. Probably good odds on that, but no way they can get a veto proof majority.
We can only hope so! Actually, most will blames ALL of those things on Trump, even though he had nothing to do with them! Such as rampant, run-away inflation!
Who will be counting the votes?
I think Republicans are going to be paying a lot more attention to who is counting the votes this time around.
If this is true (and the “emergency” COVID absentee executive orders made it possible), then the problem is not in counting the votes, it’s in verifying that the votes they’re counting were legitimate in the first place.
Which, of course, is “racist” because Democrats don’t seem to believe that black people are perfectly capable of registering to vote on their own.
US libs tend to see Europe and notably France as models and very progressive states unlike regressive America so perhaps they should learn a few things about France:
These are simple facts that anybody living in France could check.
Because France is known to be extremely progressive, you can’t criticize these, in France; but in the US they are fassssisssst!
OR in being able to get a photo ID, even when they are FREE! Democrats believe that ALL minorities are so downtrodden and even stupid, that they NEED the Democrats to tell them how to think, vote and live!
How has the human race managed to survive, for a couple of million years, so far, without Democrats there to ‘guide’ them?
Dominion! Just like 2020!
First time I’ve ever seen a bus turn into a volcano. That’s incredible video.
Of course, in winter such busses are more likely to turn into frozen bricks.
Contemplating electric aeroplane flight?
United’s larger 19-seat planes from Heart Aerospace are planned for short-haul domestic routes, out of hubs like Chicago and San Francisco, in 2026; regional U.S. airline Mesa Airlines and Finland’s Finnair have also signed on to purchase Heart’s ES-19s.
The largest electric plane in the works is Wright Electric’s 186-seat Wright1, which EasyJet intends to operate as soon as 2030. Wright also announced plans in November for its 100-passenger Wright Spirit, which will retrofit BAe 146 planes (from British aerospace company BAE Systems) with electric batteries.
No thank you.
Decades ago I flew a 4 engine turboprop plane and later a single engine internal combustion engine powered plane. The two issues that concerned me most were an uncontrollable propeller and an inflight fire. I have no desire to fly in an electrically power aircraft. There is absolutely no way to extinguish a battery fire in an airborne aircraft.
Sure, crash into the ocean and sink?
Probably burn on the Ocean Floor for 3 days
Change probably to will. Battery fires cannot be extinguished because the fuel and the oxidizer are in a single package.
Battery explosion maybe, instead of battery fire???
Battery fire …
Battery explosion…
Tomato/Tomahto
…
They go together
Like rama lama lama ka dinga da dinga dong
And Burn forever
With a shoo-bop sha wadda wadda yippity boom de boom
Chang chang changitty chang sha-bop
That’s the way it should be
This is not true. The Germans, in fact, have a portable water tank that they drop the car into. That will put the fire out, as you are removing the heat from the fire quite effectively.
They do have to be left immersed for at least 24 hours as they will reignite if removed too soon. So on the bottom of the ocean should work fine for a plane.
Yes, for a plane, perhaps, but how about the PASSENGERS?
Well show us. Give us a link how it was done!
I misidentified the location; it was the Netherlands.
Firefighters Dropped A Burning BMW i8 Into A Water Container! | Carscoops
Gonna need a bigger tank. Thank goodness for Franco-Germanic cooperation.
NZ is being treated to TV ads from Air NZ about how they’re looking to use electric planes for domestic flights within the next decade or so.
My BS-o-meter needle went off-scale when I first saw it.
If they do happen I hope that one bursts into flames like this bus did while it’s still on the ground, so ‘experts’ can rethink the wisdom of electric planes before we get some real catastrophes.
Given all the focus on safety in airplanes, how will they ever find a safe way to power planes with batteries? The speed at which that bus went up in flames was incredible – the fumes are no doubt lethal
“…how will they ever find a safe way to power planes with batteries?”
1) Require that the batteries are always installed near the center-of-gravity of the airplane
2) Require a system to automatically eject the batteries if they catch fire
3) Require that the airplane can deploy parachute(s) after the batteries are ejected to allow it to come down safely in case it is too far from an airport to glide to a safe landing
🙂
Battery in the center of the plane… great, so it explodes like that bus, and the plane falls in half.
Pass.
Yes, I think your word “explodes” is better than “on fire”
And explodes right underneath the passengers.
That’ll save them money on those “black boxes,” won’t be any need when everything is reduced to ash BEFORE it reaches the ‘surface.’
By the time all of those features are installed, the airplane would have just enough payload capacity to haul ONE COPY of “Dr. Jill’s” exciting new bathroom stuffer book.
Word on the street is that Gwyneth Paltrow sold more coooterfunk candles than Jill’s book sold.
I suspect she will sell millions of copies. What the Chinese government does with them is another question.
Have the batteries tied down by ropes suspended over a weak cargo door. If the battery ignites, the ropes burn and fail, sending the batteries crashing through the door. Of course that is tantamount to dropping a fire bomb, but nothing is perfect, especially lithium batteries.
That could be the next military contract right there. Pack those batteries onto drones and fly them over enemy territory with a short intentionally initiated by remote when they enter ‘enemy’ airspace. Even if shot down, the inextinguishable fire is delivered.
“2) Require a system to automatically eject the batteries if they catch fire”
Best not route the planes over populated areas then. Firebombing civilians is not good.
The tons of batteries required can’t all be located near the cg. They’re so big that they have to be spread out, and of course, in a way to maintain stability.
It’s just another dumb green idea to think that hauling around TONS of batteries makes any sense at all.
Just don’t try shipping anything lithium powered by air.
Better solution is just stick with IC engines.
Yes, the system we presently use is working almost perfectly. If it ain’t broke, then don’t FIX it!
Reminds me of that old George Carlin skit about pre-flight ‘safety talks’ given by crew members…
“In case of a water landing…”
WATER LANDING?! Sounds like a —-ing crash in the ocean to me!
Parachutes for the entire plane? You jest sir!
They’ve been in commercial use for many years in light planes.
Comparing oranges to what, grapes? Commercial airlines weigh upwards of MANY tons!
Could be their worst decision since flying a plane into Mt Erebus in 1979.
According to the models there was no Mount Erebus.
and ground effect planes at that so if the fire does not get you the ground soon will
Its a “battery powered” plane with kerosene backup……………
I think every government official who pushes the climate propaganda should be using electric planes for all trips immediately, to show us all how wonderful they are.
That should thin the herd of eco-loons nicely.
All contributions (or relevant deletions) which improve the aggregate IQ of the species are appreciated.
Make sure the battery can be ‘ejected’, and that following that, design the plane to glide without it. Better still… ‘can’ the idea.
with the speed of incineration, it is highly doubtful an auto-eject device could have been activated in time; and then the question remains: Where does the exploding fiery mass of plasma go when ejected? Toss it into the next lane where the other vehicles are passing by?
Or, drop it into a city, where thousands of people are working and living?
Rich, in Vietnam I took an extended trip on a CH-47 Chinook (Shithook) helicopter. Every so often it had forced landings due to some engine problem – kind of like bouncing from here to there. That wasn’t so bad but every once in awhile we would take some enemy rounds through the thin walls. Pucker time when you can’t fight back.
During my flying career flying many different kinds and sized aircraft, I experienced the emergencies you mentioned (never a fully runaway prop, however) as well as a rotor burst on a turbojet engine, a few engine fires, even a disintegration of a power recovery turbine (one of three on the Wright R-3350 engine) while flying the C-119 flying boxcar hauling 33 Falcon Air-to-Air missiles as cargo, but you couldn’t force me at gunpoint to fly an aircraft powered by batteries or windmills or solar panels given that a fire like the one in the video would mean certain death with NO time or opportunity to evacuate the aircraft. Loss of electrical power would also mean crash-landing with the potential for a post-impact fire to possibly light off the batteries as well. No way.
Hey, another flying geezer like me! R-3350 engine, they haven’t been around since JC was a Lance Corporal.
Even smoke can have you scrambling to find the nearest airport to land NOW!
A prop losing electrical synch @ 0 dark early is the best alarm clock ever!
They will not let us put Li batteries in our luggage but these clowns want to put huge batteries in their planes. Have they really thought this put? How long would recharge take between every flight?
China is working on super fast recharging EV sites, which not only might cook the battery, drastically decrease battery life, and more fires.
Batterie problems troubled Boeing 787 and they were not for propulsion.
Why do jet liners dump their fuel in an emergency?
Do you know that the largest cause of fatalities in aircraft accidents after blunt force trauma is burning to death due to ignition of onboard fuel post crash? That will never be an issue with electric aircraft.
because they will never be viable and won’t fly in the first place?
Especially since a long haul widebody aircraft would need about 4 million pounds of batteries.
I think you missed the FP. Batteries can and do burn. And when they burn they burn hot and cannot be extinguished.
That may be true NOW, but if/when they are operation and with similar batteries to the bus, it is only a matter of time until the batteries ignite like that bus.
Though I agree with John A. that they never will be truly viable from a profitability standpoint; there may be a few made, just to say ‘it was done’ . .
And you think batteries don’t burn after a crash????? We actually have data on that.
“due to ignition of onboard fuel post crash?”
???????????????????????????????????
Car crashes are notorious for causing the battery to ignite.
You are talking about powering an aircraft with a firebomb.
A hydrocarbon fuel powered plane can drop fuel. An EV plane drops along with the battery.
After a crash, it’s a rock solid certainty that the batteries will burn, and put out toxic fumes as well.
After blunt force trauma? Since most accidents occur because a fast moving plane comes to a sudden halt, I take it that is 99.9% of cases.
Technically all landings are crashes but a successful landing is a crash everyone walks away from!
You’re an idiot, DuhWayne. Li-ion batteries are known to combust following a crash that compromises the battery’s integrity. Happens all the time.
I myself have crashed a radio-controlled electric airplane powered by a Li-ion battery. Even before I could reach the plane, the battery caught fire and burned very aggressively. It caught the field on fire and destroyed the airplane.
Did I say that you’re an idiot?
Your battery exploded!
Well, you may be right. As the aircraft strikes the ground several tons of lithium batteries will be thrown into the survivors (if any) crushing them before the batteries catch fire…so technically fewer should die because of fire.
I’m sure you’re right – because a battery powered plane will just explode like a volcano in the air. No post crash to worry about, everyone is dead already.
Also, apparently you’re blissfully unaware of the fact that in electric vehicles, very often a crash actually causes a massive nearly instantaneous battery fire that engulfs the entire vehicle in seconds. Do you think a plane crashing with a vastly larger electric battery is somehow magically different than the cars?
Exactly right. Battery explosion.
You clearly have no idea how battery fires occur and how they will occur if some idiot were ever to create battery powered plane and then crash it.
what did you just watch ????
Ironically, that comment is a trainwreck.
actually it’s drowning from all of the fluid in your lungs after they have been
scorched. Burning batteries may cause you to crash in the first place.
Correct – that will never be an issue with electric aircraft.
Because everyone dies when the batteries explode at altitude. Nobody will survive long enough to reach “post crash”.
And even if they somehow survived the exploding battery, the toxic fumes will finish them off before the plane hits the ground.
No Duane.
You are making a Fauci type comparison here.
Original Statement – Batteries explode/cause fires. I do not wish to fly in a battery powered aircraft for this reason.
Your counterpoint – conventionally powered aircraft often catch fire after crashing.
You are actually discussing a completely different point. It is like saying that the Jab is safe and effective because it reduces the chances and intensity of Covid infections when the topic being discussed is the number of ‘Adverse Events’ reported – up to and including death – from people after receiving the Jab.
Or if you feel discussing the Vax is too edgy we could say that people who fall off yachts in the tropics are not a concern as the water helps regulate their body temperature and prevents heat exhaustion when everyone else is attempting to discuss drowning statistics.
In context you should be offering up arguments based on relative rates of engine failure between conventional and electric aircraft engines and the relative consciences of the engine failures. There is a difference between ‘my engine just stopped’ and ‘my engine burst into flames… and stopped’. The Consequence Level is very important. Ask anyone who has to do Risk Assessments.
You also need to avoid the risk of reading the wrong conclusion into results. In WW1 after the introduction of helmets there was a marked increase of soldiers turning up to casualty stations complaining about concussion. The easy conclusion? Helmets cause concussion.
False. What was not being listed in the same reports was the reduction in soldiers turning up dead from fatal head injuries. The helmets reduced deaths into concussions.
Hence you need to be very careful saying ‘electric aircraft wont burn in crashes’ without also discussing if electrical engines are or are not also causing planes to simply explode before they even get a chance to stuff up a forced landing.
Discuss a common point, else you will end up with a massive amount of negative marks and we don’t want that.
We carried hazardous cargo that had to be checked so it met strict guidelines
before it could be loaded. We would have NEVER- AS IN NEVER EVER– carried
anything that could spontaneously combust like this.
In the video, that bus was gone before the pilot ever could’ve done anything to get
the plane on the ground safely, even if he was on approach to an airport.
True in the sense that an aircraft fire fueled by lithium batteries will prevent any passengers reaching the surface of the planet alive, I suppose. Can’t kill what’s already been fried.
No, of course not! The only threat with electric aircraft, will be from the BATTERIES it carries, since there is no ‘fuel’! Fuel fires, however ARE capable of being extinguished, sometimes. Batteries, though…?
I thought it was illegal to bring lithium batteries on board a plane.
Pursuant to DOT regulations, transport of lithium ion batteries is “Forbidden” on passenger airlines and rail systems.
And for an INCREDIBLY valid reason, I might add! Basically for the same reason they won’t let you bring TNT in your carry-on luggage!
And in tunnels all good.
Explosives are excluded from most tunnels as they carry their oxidizer in essence, this is the same.
Battery powered transport is in trouble, big trouble!
The Left, in all it’s infinite wisdom, will just change those laws, allowing ALL of that to be brought onboard!
Seems like the majority of all crashes would be fatal to all on board plus any nearby on the ground. Not sure how you could make a lithium battery crash-proof and still be light enough to fly.
So, let me get this straight. They won’t let you take a lithium laptop battery on the plane because it’s too dangerous, but it’s okay to power the whole frickin’ plane with them?
Hey 2030, Sam Kinison called. He wants his royalty check.
Prototype electric planes are operating using large rubber bands until safe batteries of sufficient power are available.
And, they are SO much safer, too!
What happens when a plane’s lithium battery cargo catches fire.
Enjoy. Not.
I would have liked to see that but it requires me to sign in to use Google and I won’t do that.
Me, too!
No one knows, since there hasn’t been one, YET!
and may soon be known as?
the wright ball*up
Likely bigger and more batteries, given the mass being moved. And bigger fires.
Zero emissions, once the fire is out.
Very quick, lethal, and dramatic. Time to start implementing solutions to these fires before propagating EVs. Solutions are available but to my knowledge could never get to the fire quick enough to stop total conflagration.
The solution is to design a vehicle using an energy source that isn’t prone to random explosions. Perhaps something could be done with diesel fuel, as the vapors need both heat and pressure to ignite.
Drop the batteries and power from OH wires like the electric trolleys of the past. Of course you would need OH wiring down almost every road then
I think they still have them in San Francisco. It is really the only solution, if you think that fossil fuels are a problem.
OTOH, if you think fossil fuels are a problem, you are the problem. The solution to that problem is to educate yourself by reading WUWT.
“If you think fossil fuels are a problem,
you are the problem.”
(emphasis mine)
((APPLAUSE!)) 🙂
Plus 1 Quintillion
That’s worth far more than the plus 1 that is allowed
Aw, thank you, Bryan A.. 😊
They do have them in Sacramento, California.
Yes. Trolley busses with small batteries to manoeuvre around obstacles off wire is the future of urban public transport.
Trams require expensive rails that trap cyclists.
Busses will be banned for noise and air quality reasons.
Private cars are too sloe for very busy town centres, expensive to park and prevent people having a drink.
Trolley busses are the future.
Yes, but without those limiting overhead wiring systems. I was on a train in Australia a couple of years ago (Perth – Fremantle?) where the train’s pantograph power collector extended when it stopped at station platforms. It collected power – presumably to recharge batteries – for no more than about 40 seconds. Then the collector dropped down again and off we went. With a rapid charging system like that, recharging is happening while passengers are alighting and barding, and there would be almost no delay. Seems obvious to me. Does anybody have information on this train / system?
Rapid recharging with people on board? I’ll walk.
He is mistaken there is no charging on Perth trains.
“and barding”
Lots of musicians on board ? 😉
“and barding”
Lots of musicians on board ?
====
Either that or lots of armored horses.
Or perhaps they’re coving the passengers in strips of fat to prepare to cook them
Lots of fun to be had over a typo.
You are mistaken there has never been batteries on Perth trains they run direct from the power lines. The trains are A series B series and now C series
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transperth_A-series_train
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transperth_B-series_train
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transperth_C-series_train
Remind me to never live in an urban area. More and more people are telecommuting and avoiding the urban hellholes.
Self-driving cars can be much faster (because they can go closer to each other, coordinate, etc), they don’t need city parking, and their passengers can drink. Cities would probably be better places without the incessant drinking, but nevertheless self-driving cars would be quite transformational.
Perhaps, Mike, but I don’t trust them to be bug-free, and I worry how those bugs would manifest.
Loudly.
Unfortunately self driving cars could only work well if ALL drivers are removed from the equation and all cars talked to each other. Even then I wouldn’t trust them any farther than I could throw then
Because never would any entity ever upload viruses or hack systems like that.
As an added bonus, it will save the Government a fair chunk of money. Everyone here will simply be delivered to the nearest MinTru Reeducation Center – no need to send out anyone to fetch us.
Except for a few of us, of course – much as I would like to meet Joel, who lives in the same city as I, I’m planning to never get into one.
Just wait until you get 4 Self-driving cars arriving at a mini-roundabout at the same time… Give way to the right? Could be there a long time!
I have this image, from Mike’s comment, of a herd of lemmings hurtling toward some barrier that the algorithm did not detect for whatever reason.
Hopefully one of those ecoterrorists whose hoodie, sourced from magical unicorn hairs and gossamer, registers in the computer algorithm as a group of spiders singing Christmas carols.
Beware the wandering Antifa. No, let’s change that to Behead the wandering Antifa, as the likely outcome.
Just remember that software Controls an autonomous car, and software is never debugged; the time between finding bugs just gets longer. No thanks.
Bugs in software will ultimately be discovered in use, likely by causing a HUGE screw up! Only then will they be corrected! Until then, there is never any money in the budget to actually be pro-active!
Here’s the thing: you’re car is self-driving and your in a line of similar cars. What if you want to overtake? Do you engage manual (if that is allowed)? Or do you sit there at the speed of the slowest? How goes a self-drive car figure out how and when to overtake?
Self drive cars do not overtake – either they all move together at the same speed or they are not self drive cars.
Does the technology require an uninterrupted internet connection? To me this is the stuff of nightmares.
Why not just go back to horse and buggy but this time add in an automated pooper scooper. No shit, this could work.
And we would have more manure to replace that Russian fertilizer.
As long as you live downtown.
MC: As a young man I lived in Bournemouth, which had an extensive trolley-bus system, and it was great!! Very quiet, great acceleration, and vibrating cables gave a good indication of a on-coming bus. ☺ So much better than trams. And before their time when it came to cutting roads pollution.
Newcastle NSW Australia has a tram system that operates on battery, with a pickup-recharge system at each stop.
So far, running quite well (after some early glitches)
Or use UG wires and induction. Safer, not as ugly, and less vulnerable to storms etc. You would still need UG wiring down almost every road.
Induction is probably the worst possible way to recharge batteries. In a system like this, you would be lucky if 1% of the applied energy ever made it to the battery.
You wouldn’t use induction to recharge batteries, you would use induction to power the electric motor
Why even USE batteries? Use the UG induction energy to actually RUN the car/truck! When it’s off it’s ‘grid, it either runs on a small IC engine or a s’SMALL’ battery, to the next street/road having uG induction available. No reason for those lithium batteries, at all!
Wires for all those lines?
lol
Not to mention the impossibility of re-routing to get around accidents, or the added cost to create new routes. Forget about adding buses for special events.
Whatever happened to the idea of stored kinetic energy, or flywheels? It seems to me there were busses, in some cities, that ran on those. When the bus made a stop to pickup or release passengers, an arm went up to a power cable and gave a big push to the flywheel, making it able to go some distance to the next stopping place. Cars could have small IC engine onboard, to provide the same impetus, when needed. This whole idea of using incredibly dangerous batteries is something only Rube Goldberg could have imagined. There are simple, practical and SAFE ways of doing it!
Iirc diesel, kerosene and jet fuel are basically the same – jet fuel might be a bit more refined or precise in what ‘tanes are in it or how much impurities are allowed.
Technically, kerosene is number 1 fuel oil and diesel is number 2, and it goes down to number 6 then bunker fuel. Jet fuel is primarily number 1 fuel oil, with various additives depending on the military or civilian specification of the fuel.
Looking at the idea I just posted, what’s wrong with nuclear power, to generate the electricity carried inside all the main highways. No pollution, no lithium batteries and no $Billion+ dollar programs to make greedy politicians rich!
RATP just took all 149 of their EV buses out of service as this was the second fire in the past couple of weeks.
They had better choose their parking spots carefully.
There might be other EV buses on the system besides the Bollore buses taken out of service. Potential riders should check that out.
In Paris we have had the small (read: useless, empty) electric busses for a while, for short (useless) loops.
I rarely see these with one than one or two senior, and many are empty.
Never heard of an incident with those.
Now the old classic (size of Paris historical busses), normal height, normal length
and long (double) diesel busses
http://www.thibxl.be/pages/paris/bus27/201512/photos/11.jpg
are replaced with greener ones:
The uniformly very tall ones are the electric one. The ones with a bump on the front
or rear
or middle for double units
http://www.thibxl.be/pages/paris/bus27/201909/photos/5.jpg
are hybrids.
See http://www.thibxl.be/index.php?page=pages/paris/bus_27a29
Electric busses are circulating currently in Paris.
“They had better choose their parking spots carefully.”
I’m thinking the Qattara Depression.
Kinda like “the police are only minutes away when seconds count.”
The solution is used now in half of all Tesla’s built. Its called Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries, they dont burn. They are however heavier than the Nickel cells, and I believe its actually the Nickel Cobalt cells that are prone to thermal runaway but have the highest energy density so they are used in cell phones, laptops, etc.
Um, no. Unless there has been a radical change in the last few days, laptops and cell phones use lithium ion batteries.
Years ago, I read a science fiction book about the future, where, you guessed it, cars ran on electricity. It didn’t require any batteries, though. There were cables embedded in the highways, bringing the electric power to the cars and trucks, and computers directed traffic. Once you arrived at or near your destination, the car returned control to the driver. Such a simple solution, compared to the horrible mishmash we are now facing!
Batteries on the roof? I wonder if all that mass up there makes them more likely to tip over.
Like Guam.
You should get an award for that comment, Jeff.
Can you say “critical design flaw”?
Had there been passengers on board, their choice would be to exit through a waterfall of hot sparks, or to stay inside and burn up.
They would have had, oh, about 15 seconds to decide, based on the time from first external spark deluge until the interior is seen lighting up, indicating roof burn-through into the passenger compartment.
YIKES!!!
And everybody around you panicking.
Panicking, and balking at going out the doors because of the massive rain of sparks too, probably.
On any piece of mining equipment which exploded into flames like that you would have to have specialised fire suppression and escape systems
Naw – they just burn up. Nothing left to tip over.
The Bollore EV battery is the only one of its kind in the world. It is a solid state battery (no liquid electrolyte) called ‘Lithium Metal Polymer’. It uses lithium metal, not lithium salts, and a conducting solid polymer electrolyte. Bollore claims several advantages over LiIon, including inherent safety, that are obviously not true.
Both cells and battery are made in France, which explains why Paris is using them and almost nobody else.
The novel design intrinsically explains why things went south so rapidly and spectacularly.
We use Li Po batteries in electric powered radio control model airplanes because they pack more power than the type of battery in a Tesla. Their purchase comes replete with multiple warnings of how dangerous they are, how and where to store etc.
They should definitely stop using Po-Po batteries
Or just call the Po-Po when you need one.
Wasn’t it inherently safe before the fire? Words do now mean whatever elites want them to mean, not more, not less.
Yep, same as the inherently safe mRNA vaccines.
‘Inherently’ is in the same drawer as ‘Unprecedented’.
… and here is that statement about safety from the company, Bolloré :
“Chaque Bluebus sera équipé de six packs de batteries lithium-métal-polymère (LMP), intégralement produites en Bretagne, permettant jusqu’à 320 km d’autonomie”.
Ces batteries “tout-solide ne peuvent pas s’enflammer puisqu’elles n’utilisent ni terres rares, ni solvants, ni cobalt, contrairement à celles au lithium-ion”.
________________________________________________________________________
“Each Bluebus will be equipped with six lithium-metal-polymer battery packs (LMP), all produced in Brittany, allowing up to 320 km of autonomy”.
These batteries “being solid they cannot ignite since they use neither rare earths, solvents, nor cobalt, unlike those with lithium-ion”.
10/10 for sheer irony.
“being solid they cannot ignite”
That word-smithing is certainly debatable. In the presence of atmospheric oxygen, they certainly could ignite into combustion.
If each battery pack was filled with, say, nitrogen, prior to being hermetically sealed (who knows if this took place?), then perhaps they could not “ignite” in the common meaning of the word.
The fact that the batteries could self-heat to the point of throwing off showers of molten material instead of “igniting” is, as they say, a distinction without a difference.
Details, details.
Every time a Bollore official speaks publicly about their terrific products from this day forward, every internet connected device within earshot should automatically receive a video feed showing that bus self-immolate.
It’s a shame that the batteries can’t read, otherwise they wouldn’t be tempted to explode.
“cannot ignite since they use neither rare earths, solvents, nor cobalt”
I never was good in chemistry, but what was that even supposed to mean? What was the underlying, even inexact, poor, bogus, partial, attempt at a making a point?
How are the many “rare earths” (whatever that would mean here – I hear diff people have diff definition) even related in any way, chemically speaking? Do they have any unique flammability property?
What they are referring to is that because they are using a solid polymer electrolyte, they do not have the flammable electrolyte problem that other lithium chemistries have. When liquid/gel electrolyte lithium batteries are subjected to heating or physical violence, release of the flammable electrolyte generally causes a spectacular fire.
To my eye, the initial spectacular explosions here look more like an electrical breakdown – some sort of arcing — followed by the combustion of the battery materials themselves, rather than an initial electrolyte fire. It will be interesting to see if the exact cause of this fire is ever revealed.
At any rate, it is obvious that the EV industry as a whole has a LOT to learn about the hazards of storing this kind of energy.
If it was just electrical arcing on cabling outside of the battery packs, one would think that the arcing would stop once the electrical cables EXTERNAL to each battery pack had melted away. That the “rain of sparks” continued for so long and quickly developed into such a fierce fire indicates to me one or more battery packs themselves were involved from the get go.
Thanks for your expertise, Rud.
If that was the improved safety the mind boggles at what they had previously tried!!
Haven’t you heard? “New and improved” is a purely fictional phrase invented by some marketing guru four or five decades ago.
Kinda like “Save up to xx% AND MORE.”
You could probably add another 5 or 6 decades to that estimate.
“The incident caused no injuries.”
Only by sheer luck.
It was like a volcano…..sigh….the price for being green. Nice musical accompaniment. Maybe dd a temp sensor and alarm for next time?
Epic.
Was it plugged in or otherwise charging (ground loop thingy) or what set it off? ##
What are all those white sparkly bits showering down at the start – would little strips of Nickel (joining individual cells together) do that?
Otherwise = Classic stuff from when using an Oxy-Acetylene cutting torch
Aluminium maybe? Is that why I’m minded of the hapless Hindenburg?
## haha – not anything to do with that solar flare we just had?
We’ve got it now: In future to be referred to as the Hindenbus.
Hmm, what caused the person to start recording, before the fire started? Just likes taking videos of buses?
Seems like the video, as presented starts with a view of a street scene. No idea what was being videotaped before then and has been simply edited out.
It is quite possible the videographer heard a loud pop or bang when the battery first shorted/exploded internally, which would explain the rapid shifting in camera focal point that is seen. Like any good film/video operator, he/she kept the camera “rolling” to document this surprise event . . . good job!
I did note that from a different camera one could see the idiots getting close to the fire.
It’s Paris. Everything is being recorded al the time. London is the same. CCTV everywhere.
Because the streets were virtually deserted, I suspect there was already an alarm situation declared.
Looks like the French equivalent of our Fouth of July.
That is the second EV bus fire from the same fleet in Paris in April according to France24.
More bus fires! This is going to contribute to global warming with all this heat!!
What about that toxic smoke?….I bet a whiff of that could kill you.
7 NJ Transit buses caught fire fairly catastrophically just recently – none were in service (the article I saw implied that they had been pulled from service) and it came out soon after NJ Transit announced that they were moving to an all-electric fleet with more electric charging points. Police are still investigating the cause of the fires.
Yikes!! And TRIMET in Portland OR is going to purchase 24 electric busses. I think I’ll avoid riding on one.
Plenty of reasons to avoid Portland, OR already.
Electric mobility makes some sense in low power and low mass applications, such as small drones, small scooters, etc. In a BUS or even in Cars, it is resource consuming, inefficient and, as it can be seen, unsafe. It would be better to make all the efforts to extract the most from the power density that fossil fuels offer before finding a better or tolerable solution.
been some serious burns and deaths from scooter batteries igniting in Aus
So environmentally safe!
Buses aren’t good candidates for electrification. The constant stops and starts means they are drawing high starting currents more frequently and have more heat to dissipate. It’s an engineering problem that can likely be solved. But why bother when we have cable car technology that worked well for nearly 100 years?
The best part of diesel-powered busses is that you don’t have to install all that wire in the first place, nor move it if you want to change the route. Inherent advantage over trolley and light rail, regardless of the cost of fuel.
You are correct for full electrification, but not for hybridization. A city bus starts/stops about once every 30 seconds to 1 minute (is route and traffic dependent). Down size the Diesel engine by half to sustain about 35mph and double fuel economy. Use the electric machine for acceleration from stop and regen braking. Float the battery at 40-60% charge and it will last the life of the bus (about 12 years). Plus, with regen braking, the bus only needs a brake job very 100k miles instead of every 25k. These are actuals based on Broward County Transit Authority. All their newer busses are full hybrids from Europe, and are saving us money much more than the hybrid price premium.
From Europe – Detroit is behind the curve, again.
In Paris all road users must stop and restart very frequently. Busses are not special.
That looks great for the environment! The mining extraction of rare substances with child labor and fossil fuelled machinery, the production, the charging infrastructure, the smoke, the imminent certainty of nearby structures catching fire when these events occur, the toxic waste from batteries as they age, and last but not least the certainty of passengers burning to death horribly as you watch the speed and ferocity of that fire!
Well they had fair warning. Less than a month ago another electric bus went into flames in Paris.
The electric bus was on Place Maubert and Saint-Germain Boulevard, next to Notre-Dame Cathedral, when it burst into flames. Smoke billowing into the city sky caused panic among residents.
Passengers were reportedly on board before the fire started, and rushed out of the vehicle when the driver noticed the wheel explode, according to one eyewitness account.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1591061/paris-fire-bus-notre-dame-latest-updates
According to NFPA (National Fire Protection Association, the world’s premier source of fire protection information and related building and vehicle codes), the US experienced an average of 2,210 bus fires per year responded to by American fire departments – an average of six per day.
So WUWT cherry picks a single EV bus fire as what, exactly?
You guys do this all the time, highlighting and grossly hyping every single EV fire as if they are somehow riskier than petroleum fueled vehicles, which is not true.
You do know, right, that the US experiences about 190 thousand vehicle fires per year … of which EV fires constitute far fewer fires than their proportion of vehicles on the road.
Not only do EVs experience proportionally fewer fires than gas or diesel vehicles do, but when they experience a fire they are far less dangerous to vehicle occupants than are gas or diesel fire. EVs don’t explode like petroleum fueled vehicles do … the fires tend to spread slowly allowing plenty of time for occupants to retreat to safety … and EVs cannot soak occupants with extremely flammable fuel that easily ignited and extremely painfully burns the occupants to death, as do gas and diesel fueled vehicles.
If you care about the safety of vehicle occupants then you should be banging the drums loudly for more EVs, which are clearly far safer than IC vehicles.
This is 2 out of 149 buses.
Duane doesn’t do math.
Duane and Barbie(tm) both think “Math is hard”
How many spontaneous EV bus fires to how many TOTAL EV busses … vs … how many spontaneous Gas bus fires to how many TOTAL GAS busses.
BTW exactly toy how many Spontaneously Combusting Gas Powered Bus Fires have there been?
It didn’t look like this particular Bus was just involved in an accident!
Don’t be a silly boy. IC bus fire gives you plenty of time to evacuate. No w be honest, which bus would you preferred to have been on, one above or this one
https://youtu.be/6EJz8qXm8yQ
OT, but why does it seem there are always idiots standing close to significant fires that could explode?
“idiots”
How many of those fires occurred as a result of a crash, Duane? Almost all of them, I’d bet.
Not many IC vehicles spontaneously catch fire like this bus.
“the US experienced an average of 2,210 bus fires”
How many of those started with the bus just sitting there, like this one?
How many of those spread so rapidly than almost nobody inside would have been able to get out?
The few ICE cars that “spontaneously” combust, almost always combust because of an electrical short somewhere in the wiring. In such a circumstance, an EV would have combusted as well, as the fire ignites the battery.
Duane, there’s lots of cherry picking and spin going on with EVs.
Take this pathetic attempt at maintaining that EVs are fine for long distance trips.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/may/01/as-close-as-youll-get-to-free-tasmanian-couple-take-road-trip-to-sydney-in-electric-car-for-4338
The ‘journalist’ writes that the EV had “several” stops in its ~ 1500 km trip.
It took 14 ffs!
They were only making about 80 – 90 kms between stops.
Life’s too short for this sort of bullshit.
Wait – it’s worse than I thought –
2,440 kms took 28 charging stops.
As usual, Duane refuses to do the math.
What matters is the percentage, not the absolute amount.
You were schooled on this error the last time you tried this diversion, and no doubt you will have to be schooled on it again many times in the future.
Add to the lies about absolute number, Duane also ignores the average age of the ICE fleet vs the EV fleet.
Almost every fossil fuel fire happens after a crash, the same crash will cause an EV fire as well.
As to fossil fuel cars exploding, that happens in Hollywood, it almost never happens in the real world. Why is it that you keep bringing up the same disproven myths, over and over again. It’s almost like your income is on the line here.
Each time this subject comes up, Duane’s lies get bigger and more extreme.
In addition to your points, a large percentage of the IC bus fires aren’t fuel fires at all. It’s things like the brakes/wheel wells, arson (and maybe some accidental passenger started fires too perhaps), electrical, etc.
Meanwhile that EV Bus became a volcano in a very few seconds!!!
And very SPONTANEOUSLY
Obviously you didn’t watch the video in this article Duane.
Back on the meds dude.
EVs don’t explode like gas vehicles? And when they catch on fire, it spreads slowly? Apparently you never watched the video with this article.
EVs don’t explode like gas powered cars because Gasoline powered cars rarely explode, EVs explode with much more exuberance.
Gas auto fires on the other hand can be easily extinguished within minutes while EV battery fires can burn for hours to days
The only place ICE cars explode is in the movies.
In the real world, gas tanks don’t explode. They can’t, because there is little to no oxygen in the tanks to spark an explosion.
Every time I see a movie scene with a car that crashes and doesn’t explode, I’m like “finally – a realistic car crash scene!”
Ditto for train crash scenes.
There are just over one million buses in the US. 2210/1,000,000 = 0.22%.
Two EV fires out of 149 = 1.34%.
The rate of ev bus fires is currently six times greater than all other fuels combined (there are NG buses in that million).
I would bet bottom dollar if you compared them based on miles driven the EV numbers would be considerably worse. I doubt if Greyhound is using EVs.
Diesel-powered buses don’t explode. Battery-powered buses do.
How many of those alleged 2,210 bus fires were caused by spontaneous combustion? How many were caused by an external factor, such as being hit by another vehicle?
Actually, if you look at the US govt statistics they say that the number is between 500 and 600 bus fires; that number having been reduced significantly in recent years. They go on to state that the fires in diesel fuelled buses are mostly due to poor maintenance, which is something that is being addressed.
Duane, you should read the entire report. You would then know that most vehicle fires are caused in the electrical system or from friction in older, poorly maintained vehicles. The average vehicle in the US fleet is over 11 years old. How many EVs are there in the US fleet that are 11 years old or older?
Or more to the point, how many EV buses will self-immolate BEFORE they have a remote chance of even making it to 11 years old? And how many daredevils will they find who will board one, after EV bus fleets expand enough to make videos like these more common?
“EVs don’t explode like petroleum fueled vehicles do”
That’s accidentally correct. I say accidentally because it’s correct, but not in the manner you meant. petroleum fueled vehicles don’t explode (outside of hollywood movies where they use explosives to make them go boom) EVs do. and do so spontaneously. so technically they don’t explode the same because it’s only the former that explode!
So sad that the only way you can post something true is accidentally.
Remember the DOE experimented long ago with a flywheel energy storage system? Might be safer.
Just don’t try to turn while the flywheel is spun all the way up.
PS, if the flywheel breaks while spun up, the result will be indistinguishable from an explosion.
Just wondering how much CO2 was emitted from all the burning wiring insulation and plastics surrounding the battery and in the bus interior before the fire burned itself out?
Equivalent to maybe 100,000 miles of driving such a bus if powered by a LNG-fueled ICE?
CO2 emissions are of zero consequence, so who cares. I’d be more worried about the toxic gases released from all that combustion.
Please stop, even inadvertently, feeding the “CO2 emissions = bad” bullshit.
I don’t think that was what he was trying to communicate. Given that the reason of record for implementing all this whiz-bang electrically motivated hardware is reduction of CO2 emissions, a measurement of said emissions resulting from a fire such as this would be worthwhile. Fighting fire with fire, LOL.
roaddog,
Just so! Thank you for stepping up to confirm the intent of my posting.
In most if not all IC busses (AFAIK) engine and fuel tank are at the back of vehicle, hence gives sufficient time to evacuate at the front and middle doors.
In an electric bus batteries are all over the place, roof being most critical, in case of lithium fire 2,000 degrees Celsius/3632 degrees Fahrenheit; melting temps Stainless Steel*: 1375 – 1530°C (2500-2785°F) Titanium: 1670°C (3038°F) structure melts directly on the passengers’ heads
E-Bus
Talk about a “death trap.” Ugh.
It would save on funeral costs though.
Yes. I always was planning on being cremated. Kinda wanted my ashes sprinkled up on Mt. Baker, but *meh* can’t beat the cost savings. (heh)
There’s always an upside if one looks hard enough.
I see what you did there
Thanks Vuk.
However, it’s not clear that you “E-bus” drawing truly represents the design of the 12 m (long) “Bluebus” that is manufactured by Bolloré and used in Paris (in fact, the exact make of bus that is seen catching on fire in the above article’s video clip).
The Bolloré websites indicate this particular bus uses six of the “innovative” solid state ‘Lithium Metal Polymer’ battery modules (no liquid electrolytes), each rated a 7 kWh storage capacity. Together, these would amount to a total of 42 kWh of battery storage at full charge, which interestingly is less than half Tesla’s maximum battery pack size (100 kWh at full charge) for its line of EV automobiles and SUVs.
I could not find a cutaway drawing of the Bluebus on line to determine if all six battery modules are located in the roof, or are distributed between the roof and front-midsection, as indicated in the cutaway image of an E-bus that you provided.
Nonetheless, whatever number of battery modules were located in the top rear of the 12 m Bluebus, they were sufficient to destroy the vehicle in a matter of a minute or so after self-ignition.
I had that diagram for some time, probably an early general design, had it posted on the WUWT some time ago (on occasion of Hamburg (?) electric bus fire).
I now have looked again and it looks that even most recent designs have roof batteries packs, possibly most dangerous location in case of fire..
Daimler e-bus appears to has batteries on the roof and at the back.
https://www.blue-solutions.com/en/the-transport-sector
According to the manufacturers web site (via Google translate 🙂 ) the batteries are all on the roof, and are “recharged” by being replaced – presumably they are charged off the bus (makes sense to me). Having them all on the roof would make changing them out much easier.
Good point . . . but I observe that frequently switching out battery packs significantly increases the risks of something going wrong at the electrical connection points of the battery to the bus wiring, as well as significantly increasing the risk of damage to the battery itself (e.g., a hard drop that cracks something inside the battery without signs of damage appearing on the outside of the battery casing).
Most engineers know the acronym: TINSTAAFL . . . there is no such thing as a free lunch.
Perhaps it translates poorly into French.
Gordon, brilliant observation.
Suppose they could put them under the floor – this way any occupants (assuming they survive the initial explosion) would quickly find themselves standing in the equivalent of a river of molten lava…
Could be a new form of eco-loon protests…
“If you don’t do something about ‘climate change’ RIGHT NOW, I’m gonna ride that bus! I swear it!”
Our local transportation district just replaced all their clean Natural gas buses with clean electric buses after getting another sales tax increase to save the world.
Of course, they replaced all the diesel buses a few years ago with Natural gas buses after getting a sales tax increase to save the world.
But that was after the 2008 layoffs and route reductions imposed because of low ridership.
Note that local fire districts are still using diesel firetrucks that are 40 years old.
Safest urban electric bus goes under the name trolleybus. During my students day most of days I had a ride on one of them. Once or twice there were involved in minor accidents with other vehicles but never a fire!
This could have been type
Today’s they are of more slick design and plastered with adverts.
We called them trackless trolleys. That was a primary mode of mass transit when I grew up in Atlanta in the 1950s. Looks like the past is the future. Somehow that doesn’t seem very progressive.
. . . and, of course, being “trolley” they had no on-board batteries!
N.B.: this comment is for the latest generation(s) that may not recognize the technical meaning of the word “trolley”
“clean”