Chaos to Control: Scientists Use a ‘Butterfly Attractor’ to Control and Change the Weather


The study’s findings promise multiple future applications where weather events can be better controlled, including the effects of climate change.Peer-Reviewed Publication

EUROPEAN GEOSCIENCES UNION

Figure 1. Phase space of the three-variable Lorenz model. (a) Lorenz’s butterfly attractor from the NR without control; (b) the NR under control (D D 0:05, T D d4T0e). Each dot shows every time step for 8000 steps.
IMAGE: FIGURE 1. PHASE SPACE OF THE THREE-VARIABLE LORENZ MODEL. (A) LORENZ’S BUTTERFLY ATTRACTOR FROM THE NR WITHOUT CONTROL; (B) THE NR UNDER CONTROL (D D 0:05, T D D4T0E). EACH DOT SHOWS EVERY TIME STEP FOR 8000 STEPS. view more  CREDIT: N/A

Decades of global research have sparked the big question: can we really control the weather? According to a study published today in the journal Nonlinear Processes of Geophysics, this may soon be our new reality.

Researchers from the RIKEN Center for Computational Science have used computer simulations to show that extreme weather phenomena can be controlled and modified by making small adjustments to variables in the weather system. They did this using a system called a “butterfly attractor” in chaos theory, which has one of two states— just like the wings of a butterfly— and switches back and forth between the two states depending on small changes in certain conditions. The study’s findings promise multiple applications in the future, where weather events can be better controlled, including the effects of climate change.

The butterfly attractor was first proposed by mathematician and meteorologist Edward Lorenz, one of the founders of modern chaos theory. According to Lorenz, even the most minute, butterfly-scale changes to his computer weather models caused a range of weather outcomes from bright skies to raging storms, with no way to predict the final outcome. Since Lorenz first presented his study in 1972, his theory about the butterfly effect came to be widely popular and remains so even today. It includes the metaphor that a butterfly flapping its wings in Brazil can cause a tornado in Texas.

Designed ‘nature’ and weather control
The RIKEN team began to investigate Lorenz’s chaos theory to create realistic possibilities for mitigating weather events such as torrential rain. They ran one weather simulation to act as ‘nature’ itself (the control), and then ran other simulations using small variations in variables describing the convection—how heat moves through the system. They soon discovered that they could control ‘nature’ to stay in a chosen regime without shifting to the other, i.e., in a chosen wing of Lorenz’s butterfly attractor, by adding small changes to ‘nature’.

“We have successfully built a new theory and methodology to study the controllability of weather,” said Takemasa Miyoshi of the RIKEN Center for Computational Science, who led the research team. “Based on observing the system simulation experiments used in previous studies, we were able to design an experiment to investigate predictability, on the assumption that the true values (nature) cannot be changed, but rather that we can change the idea of what can be changed (the object to be controlled).”

A future with weather control technology?
Although weather predictions have reached high levels of accuracy thanks to supercomputer-based simulations and data assimilation, scientists have long hoped to be able to control the weather. Climate change has further intensified research in this area, because of the increased risk of extreme weather events like torrential rain and storms.

Takemasa says this study opens the path to research into the controllability of weather and could soon lead to weather control technology. “If realized, this research could help us prevent and mitigate extreme windstorms, such as torrential rains and typhoons, whose risks are increasing with climate change.”

Looking to the future, he says, “In this case, we used an ideal low-dimensional model to develop a new theory, and in the future, we plan to use actual weather models to study the possible controllability of weather.”


JOURNAL

Nonlinear Processes in Geophysics

DOI

10.5194/npg-29-133-2022 

METHOD OF RESEARCH

Computational simulation/modeling

SUBJECT OF RESEARCH

Not applicable

ARTICLE TITLE

Control simulation experiment with Lorenz’s butterfly attractor

ARTICLE PUBLICATION DATE

28-Mar-2022

From EurekAlert!

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Tom Halla
March 28, 2022 6:20 pm

Another case of confusing models with reality. A model that does not simulate the real world is pure mathterbation.

Walter Sobchak
Reply to  Tom Halla
March 28, 2022 7:29 pm

mathematical onanism.

Mickey Reno
Reply to  Walter Sobchak
March 28, 2022 8:15 pm

And Solipsistic Bokononism.

Sara
Reply to  Tom Halla
March 29, 2022 5:49 am

Vainglorious egocentricity, hubris, and just plain silliness.

Gary Pearse
Reply to  Tom Halla
March 29, 2022 8:33 am

Moreover, how is this ‘new discovery’ an advance on Lorenz’s work?

“According to Lorenz, even the most minute, butterfly-scale changes to his computer weather models caused a range of weather outcomes from bright skies to raging storms,…

The new paper is a rehash of the classic finding. All of climate science “has new breakthroughs” which were purloined from the past. Also old established knowledge, like coral reefs and river deltas rise and fall with that of sealevel, are waiting to be rediscovered as “breakthroughs of climate science”.

Tombstone Gabby
Reply to  Gary Pearse
March 29, 2022 6:25 pm

G’Day Gary,

“… breakthroughs of climate science”.

“As in the case of all scientific research, the several groups and individuals who are working in this field have criticized one another’s experiments and interpretations. This normal scientific interchange has been unduly accentuated by the glare of publicity which has caused some of those concerned to be more dogmatic than is justifiable in view of the present incomplete information. 

In the view of the public the meteorological world has been divided into believers and nonbelievers. This is an unfortunate and ridiculous concept. The fact is simply that the information at hand is not sufficient to permit an unequivocal conclusion regarding the possibilities of the artificial control of precipitation.”

“An Appraisal of Cloud Seeding as a Means of Increasing Precipitation”. Henry G. Houghton, Head of the Department of Meteorology, Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

From: “The Smithsonian Report For 1951”, reprinted in “Smithsonian Treasury of 20th-Century Science”, 1966.

History repeating itself…..

MarkMcD
Reply to  Tombstone Gabby
March 29, 2022 7:05 pm

Henry Houghton needed a crystal baal and he would have SEEN how many so-called ‘scientists’ are now believers of a variety of ‘consensus science’ and political declarations of certainty that never come to pass.

AndyHce
Reply to  Tom Halla
March 29, 2022 12:29 pm

If you believe in magic …

Tim Gorman
Reply to  AndyHce
March 29, 2022 3:19 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtMkzFQnYUo (Nirvana “I believe in magic”)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuHS87Orrtc (Lovin Spoonful “do you believe in magic”)

Climate science theme songs.

March 28, 2022 6:27 pm

Can I be the first to say it: Khem-trail.

/sarc (<– Note the tag)

Jery
Reply to  _Jim
March 28, 2022 11:09 pm

Also operation indigo skyfold! Look this up

Reply to  Jery
March 29, 2022 12:20 am

Yawn

March 28, 2022 6:29 pm

A few days early to announce this. ! April isn’t ’til Friday.

commieBob
Reply to  StuM
March 28, 2022 7:16 pm

You beat me to it.

The butterfly isn’t an attractor, it’s a tiny perturbation. The attractors are determined by the physical configuration of the system.

If you make any tiny perturbation to a chaotic system, the outcome will be totally different, and you can’t predict what it will be. Controlling something means you are successfully predicting its output. Ergo, you can’t control the climate with tiny perturbations.

You can control the weather but it means you have to do big things. For instance, cutting down a forest and converting it to farm land will change the local weather. link

b.nice
Reply to  commieBob
March 28, 2022 10:48 pm

“for instance, cutting down a forest and converting it to farm land”

So will cutting down a forest and converting it to a wind turbine industrial estate.

Gary Pearse
Reply to  b.nice
March 29, 2022 9:48 am

I’m sure it never occurred to the authors that if a butterfly flap can alter weather enormously on the other side of the world, the large clusters of 500ft tall butterflies with with 200ft spinning wings would really do the trick! Maybe Texas can sue the windmill companies for the February 2O21 disaster and for Hurricane Harvey standing immobile over Houston and flooding the city. Now that’s real manmade climate change.

comment image

MarkMcD
Reply to  Gary Pearse
March 29, 2022 7:11 pm

I’ve posted that pic numerous times to show the effects of bird choppers. So far every single true believer has ignored it.

I also have used one showing the IR above a solar panel farm – you might think cities have a UHI – you should see the SPHI!

Gary Pearse
Reply to  MarkMcD
March 30, 2022 3:53 pm

Obvious to every body but the windmill cultists is that wind blows from a high pressure area to a low pressure area. If you select a windy pass in the hills, the windmills create a damming effect at that fine site, such that the low pressure area leeward of the wind farm, now draws its air demand from other directions as well, (its demand for air won’t be denied) including the forced deflection of air up over the wind mills.

By inspection of the photo, having every alternate mill standing one fan diameter above its neighbours would at least improve efficiency significantly. I guess what they have is linear thinking design.

Very interesting the IR field above a solar farm. Linear thinking again! You have to post something like this a few times to get it noticed

Jery
Reply to  commieBob
March 28, 2022 10:51 pm

Operation indigo skyfold! Look it up

M Courtney
Reply to  Jery
March 29, 2022 1:59 am

This is crazy.
It’s assumes incredible competence from people who have no economic sense.
It isn’t true. And it should be banned from this site.
It’s a distraction from reality.

MarkW
Reply to  Jery
March 29, 2022 8:03 am

One dude without any data comes forth and makes a claim, and since it lines up with what a bunch of other paranoid dudes want to believe, it instantly becomes unquestionable fact.

Gary Pearse
Reply to  commieBob
March 29, 2022 9:30 am

I guess you could do a tiny perturbation, but the resultant deluge would be occurring some where else! Possibly, there could be some pre-existing conditions where the induced deluge would take place.

Retired_Engineer_Jim
Reply to  Gary Pearse
March 29, 2022 2:10 pm

All the nations of the Earth will take a break from singing Koomaya and make modifications in their atmosphere that will only benefit other nations downwind of them.

That’s Progressive Utopia, with unicorns.

Retired_Engineer_Jim
Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
March 29, 2022 2:11 pm

Koombaya, or however it is spelled.

AndyHce
Reply to  commieBob
March 29, 2022 12:36 pm

Mathmatical chaotic systems are completely deterministic. Thus any discovered small input change that produces any particular result will always produce the same result. Perhaps unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, the real world is almost always a combination of multiple interacting systems so it would be necessary to control all of them at the same time.

MarkMcD
Reply to  commieBob
March 29, 2022 7:10 pm

Back before the church of AGW got it’s grubby little paws on the data, the BoM (Bureau of Meteorology) in Australia got pretty good at predicting weather. The one place they failed was when a large and stable system controlled the weather for days.

Even there, they were good at telling us WHEN the weather would break but were often wildly wrong as to what came next. This was chaos theory in action – you can see when the attractor will perturb the system but now what will follow.

Now of course, they can’t predict anything but the most obvious. Just in the past 3 months I’ve seen them be 10° off target just 12 hours before.

And you could FEEL the hot day coming! As of 10pm they were still prophesying a mild day – instead we got to 36°!

Jim Gorman
Reply to  commieBob
March 30, 2022 6:17 am

These scientists are looking through a keyhole. Anyone that thinks there won’t be unforeseen occurrences is blind to nature. You may prevent torrential rains or severe thunderstorms in one location but that energy must go somewhere. What this paper really shows is that the energy will still be dissipated, just in another location.

LdB
Reply to  StuM
March 28, 2022 7:22 pm

I actually checked the date because this was so stupid I thought it must be the 1st.

b.nice
Reply to  LdB
March 28, 2022 10:49 pm

Yep, you have to be careful nowabays with all the junk climate (and other) ideas floating about the place. !

Jery
Reply to  LdB
March 28, 2022 10:51 pm

Operation indigo skyfold!look it up

dk_
March 28, 2022 6:32 pm

I can use my software to control my software too. Mistaking a model for nature might be something like mistaking a map for the territory. Or possibly suspiciously close to April fool’s day.

Jery
Reply to  dk_
March 28, 2022 10:52 pm

Operation indigo skyfold!look it up

Reply to  Jery
March 29, 2022 12:21 am

Yawn

MarkW
Reply to  Philip Mulholland
March 29, 2022 8:05 am

This guy is really working overtime to recruit new members for his cult.

The True Nolan
Reply to  dk_
March 29, 2022 8:01 am

Yes, good point. I am considering how much gas I can save by hacking my GPS navigator. I will simply reposition the “My Location” marker and WHOOSH!

Steve McArthur
March 28, 2022 6:40 pm

Yeah, right. They are now claiming to be able soon to control what they are presently unable to predict accurately. For anyone who believes this, I have a bridge for sale, going out at bargain basement prices.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Steve McArthur
March 28, 2022 8:54 pm

I agree that it is unlikely that anything can be controlled unless it is understood well enough to predict the future accurately in the absence of any interventions. At this point, there is no agreement on whether clouds have a net positive or negative feedback, and what the climate sensitivity is to a doubling of CO2. Some curmudgeons like myself even question the role of anthropogenic CO2.

Thomas
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
March 29, 2022 5:33 am

Exactly. How can one know where and when to make the butterfly flap it wings to cause the change in weather that you want.

AndyHce
Reply to  Thomas
March 29, 2022 12:43 pm

You try them one by one until you find one that works. Chaotic systems, while mathematically completely deterministic are also mathematically completely unpredictable.

Tim Gorman
Reply to  AndyHce
March 29, 2022 3:29 pm

How quickly can you try all the possible changes and what catastrophic unwanted incidents will be caused while you continuing searching for the “right” one? Atmospheric characteristics change rapidly, even minute by minute. What would have worked at time T0 might not work at time T1 and might even cause a catastrophe if applied at T1!

AndyHce
Reply to  Tim Gorman
March 29, 2022 5:59 pm

most butterflies also have short life spans.

Jery
Reply to  Steve McArthur
March 28, 2022 10:53 pm

Operation indigo skyfold!look it up

Joao Martins
Reply to  Steve McArthur
March 29, 2022 1:37 am

Steve, you are right until the moment there is state money put on the idea: if state money is allcated, they will start to “make it happen” as if all the scientific and engineering problems were solved. “Ambiciously”, as they say here in Europe.

Sara
Reply to  Steve McArthur
March 29, 2022 5:51 am

Do we get fries with that, Steve? 🙂

March 28, 2022 6:46 pm

Future World will be a wonderful place…the weather will be perfect every day…not too hot…and not too cold….and the butterflies will frolic in fields of flowers…..unless bad man screws everything up with that CO2 stuff.

Reply to  Anti-griff
March 28, 2022 6:55 pm

I thought that by now we would be living subterraneanally, climate controlled, out of the reach of tornadoes and derechos too.

Sara
Reply to  _Jim
March 29, 2022 5:53 am

So, you’re saying we should all become Morlocks? (See “The Time Machine”.)

Slowroll
Reply to  Sara
March 29, 2022 11:16 am

Actually, the climatards want us all to be the Eloi, to be eaten by the morlocks

Sara
Reply to  Slowroll
March 29, 2022 12:01 pm

How about we send the Climatards to visit the morlocks, and lock the doors when they descend? They could start a whole new civilization, the CHUDs.

littlepeaks
Reply to  Anti-griff
March 28, 2022 8:34 pm

If this were possible, do you really believe people would agree on what perfect weather would be?

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  littlepeaks
March 28, 2022 8:55 pm

We would probably go to war over where the ‘thermostat’ should be set.

JEHILL
Reply to  Anti-griff
March 29, 2022 6:41 am

The other inherent problem with weather control is human nature. Humans, as a group, would never choose to have a rainy day. Notwithstanding engineering issues predicated on weather control zone granularity.

Matt Kiro
Reply to  JEHILL
March 29, 2022 7:48 am

Just listen to a local weather report on the radio, any day with precipitation is ‘bad’. Only sunny days are ‘good’. Oh and you can’t be more than a couple degree off from the ‘normal’ for that time of year.
And people wonder why so many are depressed and have high anxiety.

aussiecol
March 28, 2022 6:46 pm

”…with no way to predict the final outcome.”

They are the words that worry me the most about all these ponzi schemes to control the climate.

Dave Fair
March 28, 2022 6:49 pm

Tell me what’s wrong with this statement of theirs: “Using longer-lead-time forecasts, we achieve more effective control with a perturbation size of less than only 3 % of the observation error.”

Could this be a hoax study? Or just another use of the word “climate” to attract unlimited government funds.

Last edited 1 month ago by Dave Fair
G Mawer
Reply to  Dave Fair
March 28, 2022 7:58 pm

Reads like a parody on climate models.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Dave Fair
March 28, 2022 8:56 pm

Nobody can get forecasts to be within 3% of reality!

Jery
Reply to  Dave Fair
March 28, 2022 10:55 pm

Operation indigo skyfold. I say look it up

Reply to  Jery
March 29, 2022 12:22 am

I say Yawn

Richard Page
Reply to  Jery
March 29, 2022 8:58 am

Operation Terminate Jery’s Account. Look it up!

TonyG
Reply to  Richard Page
March 29, 2022 12:15 pm

Operation Jery: Lock it up!

diggs
March 28, 2022 7:17 pm

I wonder if they are familiar with the term

“pissing in a wetsuit”

They are obviously very good at it and it does give you great control over your local micro-climate…

Michael Elliott
Reply to  diggs
March 28, 2022 7:30 pm

Re.the so called Butterfly effect, what about the Open air atomic bomb tests of the 40 tees & 50 tees.

Why didn’t evey test firing cause unusual weather events elsewhere in the World.

As with so much in this Green scam, they do not live in the real World, and never have.

Models may fool the Politicians, but hopefully not us real people.

Michael VK5ELL

Jery
Reply to  Michael Elliott
March 28, 2022 10:56 pm

Operation indigo skyfold. Look this up shocking TRUTH.

Reply to  Jery
March 29, 2022 12:22 am

Yawn

John Larson
Reply to  Michael Elliott
March 29, 2022 7:31 pm

Why didn’t every test firing cause unusual weather events elsewhere in the World.”

Precisely as logical as asking -why didn’t every test firing cause usual weather events elsewhere in the World –

(But hey, I’m just someone who grasps basic logic, you might want to have someone who doesn’t assure you I’m wrong ; )

Jery
Reply to  diggs
March 28, 2022 11:06 pm

Operation indigo skyfold! Is true

Reply to  Jery
March 29, 2022 12:23 am

Yawn

Bob
March 28, 2022 7:18 pm

What a waste.

RickWill
March 28, 2022 7:19 pm

Haven’t humans already spent trillions on wind turbines and solar panels in the vain hope of changing the weather?

In fact we have been told that CO2 changes the weather – so humans have apparently already achieved that objective.

H.R.
Reply to  RickWill
March 28, 2022 8:21 pm

Well, Rick, if humans have changed the weather via CO2 emissions, we’ve sure made a hash of it.

Trillions spent? I demand a refund!

Jery
Reply to  H.R.
March 28, 2022 10:57 pm

Operation indigo skyfold. Shocking TRUTH

Reply to  Jery
March 29, 2022 12:23 am

Yawn

ihfan
Reply to  RickWill
March 29, 2022 10:02 am

Haven’t humans already spent trillions on wind turbines and solar panels in the vain hope of changing the weather?

What will be the effect of removing this energy from the atmosphere? Perhaps we are starting to change the weather, and as usual, I bet we won’t like the effects.

AndyHce
Reply to  RickWill
March 29, 2022 12:47 pm

Only when the wind turbines cover the entire planet surface can any definite claim be accepted.

Walter Sobchak
March 28, 2022 7:28 pm

Video Games.

H.R.
Reply to  Walter Sobchak
March 29, 2022 4:39 am

Video games, and they are still on Level 1.

Tom
March 28, 2022 7:28 pm

It’s easy to control butterflies. The trick is picking the right one.

ThinAir
March 28, 2022 7:41 pm

My reaction to this academic arrogance:

“The horror. The horror.”

– from the movie “Apocalypse Now”

markl
March 28, 2022 7:44 pm

🙂 Had me for a moment because the line between reality and sarcasm can be transparent.

marlene
March 28, 2022 7:46 pm

But China bought US patents for weather modification and control back in the 1950’s…? I doubt if China let them expire. So how does this affect this, I wonder…Also, in my US northeast city, we had some snowfall this morning, which was highly unusual. It did not glisten or melt in my hand. In the past there have been many reports of weather-modified snow, including videos of something unusual that was not at all like snow. Seems to be happening again.

Alexy Scherbakoff
Reply to  marlene
March 28, 2022 8:05 pm

Mana from heaven.

Reply to  marlene
March 28, 2022 8:27 pm

something unusual that was not at all like snow

marlene,

Ventusky reports episodes of freezing rain in your region recently, so the Canadian arctic air mass you are experiencing is very cold.
An air mass this cold can also produce falls of snow pellets or graupel. Graupel is a natural weather phenomenon caused by snowflakes formed higher up in the cloud falling down through super-cooled rainwater droplets in the lower cloud and flash freezing these droplets. The resulting snow pellets then fall out faster than the snow flakes and arrive on the ground first.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Philip Mulholland
March 28, 2022 9:00 pm

We just had some here in in SW Ohio a couple days ago.

Alexy Scherbakoff
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
March 28, 2022 9:05 pm

Not uncommon in NE China. Tricky to drive on.

Jery
Reply to  Philip Mulholland
March 28, 2022 10:59 pm

Operation indigo skyfold! Look this up.

Reply to  Jery
March 29, 2022 12:10 am

Jery,
Have the courage to present your evidence here, not click-bait.

Last edited 1 month ago by Philip Mulholland
MarkW
Reply to  Philip Mulholland
March 29, 2022 8:12 am

I wasted a couple of minutes looking it up.
It’s a report of a single person who claims to have been part of a super secret government program that not only tried to control the weather, but ended up creating some kind of catastrophe. I can’t tell you what the catastrophe was because I didn’t read that far.

Of course he can’t present any evidence for his claims because the government is covering it up.

ihfan
Reply to  MarkW
March 29, 2022 10:04 am

It’s a report of a single person who claims to have been part of a super secret government program that not only tried to control the weather, but ended up creating some kind of catastrophe. I can’t tell you what the catastrophe was because I didn’t read that far.

Sounds like the plot of a bad sci-fi movie.

Reply to  MarkW
March 29, 2022 10:12 am

Thanks Mark,
You went there so we don’t have to 🙂

Sara
Reply to  Philip Mulholland
March 29, 2022 6:03 am

I drove through graupel last week, Philip. Really obnoxious stuff, mixed with snow and thoroughly annoying stuff. Lasted for several hours.

Jery
Reply to  marlene
March 28, 2022 10:58 pm

Operation indigo skyfold.research that

Reply to  Jery
March 29, 2022 12:08 am

Jerry,
Nature does everything first.

Sara
Reply to  marlene
March 29, 2022 6:01 am

Hey, we’re having a chilly, wet Spring here in my kingdom. Not enough snow to even complain about it, dry winter, stuck in the low 30s, and now we’re getting snow and more cold weather and rain mixed w/snow and the geese are complaining loudly because they want to start housekeeping instead of putting it off.
So it’s a cold, wet Spring – so what? It happens. I’ve seen worse. Read up on the 1967 UNPREDICTED blizzard that shut down Chicago and literally sent billions of gallons of freezing rain (sleet) to the center of the state, damaging power and phone lines and disrupting modern civilization.
Like I said, it happens. It’s weather, the perfect example of chaos at work.

MarkW
Reply to  marlene
March 29, 2022 8:09 am

China bought patents? That would be a first.

Richard M
March 28, 2022 8:13 pm

These folks don’t even know how the atmosphere works. Otherwise, they’d know there’s no such thing as an enhanced greenhouse effect. The energy flows are outside their knowledge base.

Can’t wait for their first experiment to fail miserably. That’s if they ever do a real experiment.

Reply to  Richard M
March 28, 2022 8:34 pm

Not so great if their failure happens to be over YOUR house.

Yes, a small change in one variable can trigger large changes in other variables. “But, Perfesser – what changes do those large changes trigger in those other variables over there?”

Jery
Reply to  Richard M
March 28, 2022 11:00 pm

Operation indigo skyfold!already experiment on us.look that up.

Reply to  Jery
March 29, 2022 12:11 am

Yawn.

observa
March 28, 2022 8:22 pm

Too much easy time on our hands with these climate changers-

I think we forget how tough most people in most periods of history had it

Think 2022 is bad? Here’s why 536 was ‘the worst year to be alive’ (msn.com)

…..and you Tik Tok that to the young people today and think that they’ll believe you?

Hoyt Clagwell
March 28, 2022 8:35 pm

Trying to control the weather instead of adapting to it is a bit like trying to figure out how to move the Earth 3 feet to the left instead of stepping out of the way of the truck coming towards you.

Jery
Reply to  Hoyt Clagwell
March 28, 2022 11:01 pm

Not so fast!look up operation indigo skyfold!

Reply to  Jery
March 29, 2022 12:24 am

Yawn

Sara
Reply to  Jery
March 29, 2022 6:07 am

Jery, you are thoroughly annoying people like me. In case you don’t understand what happens with plane exhausts, the air up there is subzero and instantly freezes water vapor coming out of a jet engine’s exhaust. You are just ridiculous.

MarkW
Reply to  Sara
March 29, 2022 8:15 am

There’s a reason why these ChemTrail nut cases quickly get themselves banned, the don’t make any sense and are unable to shut up.

Sara
Reply to  MarkW
March 29, 2022 12:08 pm

They should spend some time outside at night, lying on the ground and watching the space station and various satellites zip along overhead. It’s even better when Mars is in Full Dress Orange phase, and looks like a very small pumpkin, of the Moon is full and is setting as an orange balloon. Good times, especially when you have a camera to get those photos.

My favorite Moon shot was one that I got of the near-full Moon, with a very small speck showing, three frames of it, and it looked like the speck was moving. I couldn’t figure out what it was, so I sent it off to Sky & Telescope. I had SO hoped it was an alien spaceship orbiting the Earth, but no – it was a single bad pixel on my camera’s sensor.

I still tell people it’s an alien spaceship and they stuck around long enough to decide “No Contact!!!” and “Avoid Earth AT Alll Costs!!!” was a good idea.

Good times.

Last edited 1 month ago by Sara
Steve Case
March 28, 2022 9:04 pm

“If realized, this research could help us prevent and mitigate extreme windstorms, such as torrential rains and typhoons, whose risks are increasing with climate change.”
_______________________________________________________________

…and typhoons, whose risks are increasing with climate change.

Bullshit

Jery
Reply to  Steve Case
March 28, 2022 11:02 pm

Operation indigo skyfold. Research this

Reply to  Jery
March 29, 2022 12:26 am

Yawn

Sara
Reply to  Steve Case
March 29, 2022 6:08 am

Aren’t typhoons and hurricanes a necessary part of surface weather that helps stirs the oceans down in the depths, to keep them from becoming stagnant? Just askin’. My cat has a liking for fish.

Steve Case
March 28, 2022 9:17 pm

“It could not be simpler,” said the Aztec priests. “We simply cut out beating 
hearts and roll heads down the temple steps … and it rains.” They all believed it.

Jery
Reply to  Steve Case
March 28, 2022 11:03 pm

Operation indigo skyfold!TRUTH here look that up

Reply to  Jery
March 29, 2022 12:26 am

Yawn

Graemethecat
Reply to  Jery
March 29, 2022 3:39 am

Do us all a favour and STFU.

Franz Dullaart
March 28, 2022 9:36 pm

“…  on the assumption that the true values (nature) cannot be changed, but rather that we can change the idea of what can be changed (the object to be controlled) …

So just by the idea of what can be changed, the weather is controlled?

Dave Fair
Reply to  Franz Dullaart
March 28, 2022 11:03 pm

They plan on controlling the inputs to a chaotic, dynamic system such as to control for a desired outcome. Hee, hee.

Jery
Reply to  Franz Dullaart
March 28, 2022 11:04 pm

Operation indigo skyfold.research this

Reply to  Jery
March 29, 2022 12:26 am

Yawn

Sara
Reply to  Franz Dullaart
March 29, 2022 6:11 am

Just remember that these are people who can’t even control their own stomachs, GI tracts, or kidneys, but they think they can control the planet’s weather system? Think about that for a minute, and try not to laugh too loudly. Might hurt their feewings.

Earthling2
March 28, 2022 9:38 pm

In chaos theory, the butterfly effect is the sensitive dependence on initial conditions in which a small change in one state of a deterministic nonlinear system can result in large differences in a later state.

I wish that could explain how when I throw a 100 foot extension cord in the back of the truck, when I come back in the morning, it is in dozens of knots that need to be untangled.

John in Oz
March 28, 2022 9:48 pm

Cane toads in Oz – a salient lesson

These people must have watched Camelot recently (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0Bp5odIZjQ)

Mike
March 28, 2022 10:01 pm

a butterfly flapping it’s wings in Brazil can cause a tornado in Texas.

Yeah but what if a butterfly flaps it’s wings during a tornado? Hey?? What then?

Last edited 1 month ago by Mike
Stephen Skinner
Reply to  Mike
March 29, 2022 7:05 am

Or it’s a moth? And what about size? Or it’s a bird, or bat, such as a Fruit-Bat? Then there are all those doors and hinged windows that have increased enormously in the last 100 years? When anyone opens a door or a window there is much more draft compared to a butterfly so all sorts of climate chaos is likely. And then there are books. Fortunately book reading has declined so there is much less disturbance to Gaia.

observa
March 28, 2022 10:42 pm

They were going to control the weather with solar and wind power but forgot about the intermittency with the fallacy of composition. Then it dawned on them they needed lots of storage and in boundless lithium they trusted-
US battery storage industry ‘at crisis point’ over supply chain crunch – The Latest in Solar Power | Clean Energy | Renewable Energy News (smartech.energy)
We tried to warn them that our ancestors weren’t that stoopid.but alas with their progeny.

Jery
Reply to  observa
March 28, 2022 11:05 pm

Operation indigo skyfold! This is true

Reply to  Jery
March 29, 2022 12:27 am

Yawn

ihfan
Reply to  Jery
March 29, 2022 10:12 am

Operation indigo skyfold!

Operation Castle Bravo! It’s true!

observa
Reply to  observa
March 29, 2022 4:38 am

PS: Actually that’s a poor translation of this report here-
US battery storage industry ‘at crisis point’ over supply chain crunch (energy-storage.news)

Essentially the climate changers’ EV favourite meme that they’d follow Moore’s Law down in price is in serious trouble and the numpties never should have permitted wasting light weight lithium on stationary grid storage. However with high grid penetration of unreliables they required a quick storage fix but that only put off the day of reckoning and it’s come upon them now. Their kingdom now relies on finding economic alternatives pronto.

Jery
March 28, 2022 10:47 pm

Operation indigo skyfold! ..look it up.

MarkW
Reply to  Jery
March 29, 2022 8:23 am

If someone doesn’t believe you the first time, what makes you think repeating the same empty claim 30 more times will make a difference.
We all saw your claim the first time you made it. Repeatedly making the same claim does not convince people it just pisses them off and hopefully gets you banned. MODERATORS?

Jery
March 28, 2022 11:10 pm

TRUTH is operation indigo skyfold! Look it up no bs

Jery
Reply to  Jery
March 28, 2022 11:11 pm

Share info TRUTH matters in world of lies

Richard Page
Reply to  Jery
March 29, 2022 9:01 am

But do lies matter equally in a world of truth, eh?
And what is the nature of truth anyway?

Reply to  Jery
March 29, 2022 12:27 am

Yawn

Reply to  Philip Mulholland
March 29, 2022 12:29 am

Zzzzzz

Sara
Reply to  Jery
March 29, 2022 6:13 am

Get some counseling, Jery. You’re paranoid and delusional. Have a nice weekend.

michael hart
March 29, 2022 12:31 am

Beam me up, Scotty.

Matthew Sykes
March 29, 2022 1:06 am

Load of crap. You cant have chaos theory unless you have an unstable system full of positive feedbacks.

Such systems are short lived and self destructive. Butterflies flapping wings do not cause tropical storms.

Stephen Skinner
March 29, 2022 1:10 am

“We have successfully built a new theory and methodology to study the controllability of weather,” 
B*ll**ks

mikewaite
March 29, 2022 1:20 am

So, we can control the weather now can we ? and who exactly will be the “we” ? Biden, Xi or Putin?

H.R.
Reply to  mikewaite
March 29, 2022 4:52 am

Oooh! Oooh! Pick me! Pick me!

richardw
March 29, 2022 1:28 am

I’m not a scientist but it does strike me that the principles upon which many models like this are built assume some kind of linear response to variation. Empirical evidence would suggest that in fact the climate system behaves much more like a pulse wave modulation system, which tends to correct itself to a particular state, otherwise the climate would have spun out of control millennia ago. The effects of a butterfly’s wing flapping would itself be modulated by such a system.

Joao Martins
March 29, 2022 1:31 am

Happy to be 70+ years old! I shall no be here to witness and suffer the consequences of all this madness.

IanE
Reply to  Joao Martins
March 29, 2022 7:34 am

Yes – I am not quite there yet, but it certainly seems that we have both lived through Peak Sanity!

Now, what was that statement by the UK’s former Chancellor and Prime Minister, Gordon Brown? Oh yes: “no more Boom and Bust”!

Last edited 1 month ago by IanE
Sara
March 29, 2022 5:48 am

I keep telling them “Don’t mess with Mother Nature. She has a bad temper and a short fuse.”

It’s what I’ve said all along: it is about climate this or environment that: it’s about control of something they can’t control and don’t understand at all. And no, they aren’t going to stave off the next ice age or heat wave.

Can I point and giggle now?

Peter Morris
March 29, 2022 6:10 am

Bahahahahahahaaaaaaa!!!

Wow. As if we hadn’t lost the plot as a species already. Control the weather. That’s a good one!

2hotel9
March 29, 2022 6:59 am

Any idiot who thinks they can control weather needs to be injected with a massive dose of fentanyl.

Sara
Reply to  2hotel9
March 29, 2022 7:02 pm

Nahhh. Just shove them out the door in a heavy snowstorm and tell them they can come back inside when they get the snow (and ice) cleared off the roads and walkways and the scent of wood burning in a fireplace drives them nuts, because it means they’re out in the cold and everyone else is indoors, having warm cider and hot chocolate and pancakes with maple syrup and butter.

Andy Pattullo
March 29, 2022 7:04 am

Utter nonsense. The fact you can use math to predict a massive impact from a tiny input does not change the laws of physics. Models aren’t reality, and their aren’t useful for much of anything till they have shown some ability to predict some important aspect of reality. Pretending that reality is what you find in a model is like pretending your retirement is assured because you have a lottery ticket in your pocket.

Ed Zuiderwijk
March 29, 2022 7:07 am

Haha. Another effusion by delusional fools, who arrogantly think they can share a table with the good Lord and control the weather, just like that.

Charles Higley(@higley7)
March 29, 2022 7:46 am

One tiny problem is that we need to have control over ALL of the other factors and effects in climate in order to have a single factor have a predictable effect on climate. As climate is constantly changing as the world turns, with half the world warming and the other half cooling at any given time and many stochastic factors. This is simply not possible.

ferdberple(@ferdberple)
March 29, 2022 7:47 am

The best part about weather modification is that no one can tell if it would have happened regatdless of the modification.

ferdberple(@ferdberple)
March 29, 2022 8:01 am

The n-body problem is the mathematical analog of n-dimensional chaos. A solution to the problem has eluded the best mathematical minds for centuries.

The average throw of a pair of dice is 7. The IPCC would have us believe that this is what will happen with temperature in the future, based on the average of all their models.

In reality, any value from 2 to 12 is possible and no solution has every been found to tell us what value will actually be thrown.

The True Nolan
March 29, 2022 8:04 am

I would suggest the the butterfly net pictured at the article’s top be used to catch the study’s authors.

MarkW
Reply to  The True Nolan
March 29, 2022 10:02 am

And if there is any room left, put Jery in there as well.

TonyG
March 29, 2022 10:35 am

Not that it’s at all likely, but assuming they somehow manage to find a way to “prevent and mitigate extreme windstorms”, what would be the consequences of doing so?

They seem to have missed the entire point of the butterfly effect.

Martin Pinder
March 29, 2022 1:02 pm

The world’s full of perturbations. What happens if I stand up & flap my arms? When you get a different outcome with a small perturbation in your model, you have assumed that all else remains the same. This is probably not justified in the real world, there might be a butterfly somewhere other than in Brazil who decides to flap HIS wings at the same time.

Kip Hansen(@kiphansen2)
Editor
March 29, 2022 1:18 pm

Total Bullocks!

The Butterfly Attractor of Lorenz, in its three variable model (L63 — which means Lorenz 1963) in no way represents the physical weather system of Earth.

Fooling around with the parameters while running iterations to restrict the resulting Strange Attractor to one or the other lobe is a cute mathematical/programmatic trick, but has no meaning in the real world — precisely for the same reasons that make it possible to do so.

Tweaking a toy model has no relation to tweaking the weather system — which itself is only vaguely understood at present. The weather system has no little knobs — no little “input modified parameter here” boxes.

Not Chicken Little
March 29, 2022 1:56 pm

“Although weather predictions have reached high levels of accuracy” ha ha ha! This is great comedy! Where I live they often can’t tell me if it’s going to rain or not 12 hours ahead of time and even less. Much less other weather phenomena that are often more destructive…

March 29, 2022 3:36 pm

I think the comments are a bit hard on these folk. There’s nothing wrong with trying to mathematically describe natural phenomena. The article does not make any huge claims other than this seems to be a way to describe weather patterns and it might be “a starting point for [more realistic simulations]” that might be helpful in the future. They aren’t making any real-world claims for their model, just that it’s an interesting starting point for further studies.

And it is. Nobody in the article is confusing models with reality. They are just creating another model for possible validation. And validated models *are* useful for predicting natural phenomena.

MarkMcD
March 29, 2022 7:03 pm

LMAO! Their models can’t even predict the past MEASUREMENTS even after they adjust the data input to try and make them work, but now they understand chaos theory enough to CONTROL the weather?

Yeah…

Right…

Just wondering… just how do they model chaos on binary computers? Which variables are ‘fixed’ and constants are not?

This is the equivlent of modifying 1 number in a Mandelbrot equation and claiming you have control of all fractal sets and STILL not being able to sensibly describe what the root of -1 is.

DaveW
March 30, 2022 7:58 pm

A bit early for April 1st, even here in Queensland there are several days to go. Still, I can report at least a dozen large butterflies in the front yard, mostly delivering eggs to citrus, which seems a remarkable butterfly attractor.

Hurricane Willy
April 2, 2022 2:42 am

The so called “butterfly effect” is a metaphor used within a theory about chaos! If that’s not a big enough clue, you are beyond help!

The true purpose of this device is to test how scientifically illiterate the vast majority of the population are.

”A butterfly flapping it’s wings in Brazil can cause a tornado in Texas”.

Such a notion would be a violation of the laws of thermodynamics. Reminds me of another prominent hypothesis which is also a violation of the laws of thermodynamics.

Last edited 1 month ago by Hurricane Willy
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