Biden wanted a climate alliance with Europe. He’s getting a carbon trade war

From The GWPF

Date: 14/07/21

GWPF & Politico

While John Kerry is in Moscow to agree some kind of US-Russian ‘climate cooperation,’ the EU is planning to announce carbon trade barriers against the rest of the world, including the US.

It was inevitable that the relentless radicalisation of climate hysteria and protectionist carbon border taxes would ultimately lead to a global trade war and the self-destruction of the Western alliance.

Today, we are a step closer today to this geopolitical upheaval that is likely to unravel the international political order for good.

Biden wanted a climate alliance with Europe. He’s getting a fight.

A brewing carbon trade war with Europe threatens to scuttle President Joe Biden’s hopes for cross-Atlantic harmony in the fight against climate change.

The European Union’s leadership is set to unveil a proposal on Wednesday to tax imports from countries — including the U.S. — that lack aggressive carbon-reducing policies. That move has sparked fears that protectionism will derail hopes for a new era of international climate change cooperation ushered in by Biden’s presidency.

The Biden administration is wrestling with how to respond to the new tariff threats, even as it works with the EU to remove trade barriers that former President Donald Trump had slapped onto European goods like steel and aluminum.

“You could bring back the kind of trade frictions that have been characteristics of the U.S.-EU relationship with tit-for-tat solutions, and I think that’s a problem,”said John Podesta, who was President Barack Obama’s top climate adviser and is in frequent contact with Biden officials.“

The bilateral relationship between the U.S. and EU democracy is perhaps the most important relationship now to create a structure for solving these global problems, and that’s why this is sort of a test case for that. Can we get our act together now?”

Biden has made addressing climate change one of his administration’s top priorities, but the U.S. is miles behind the European Union, which has created a bloc-wide carbon trading system to wean itself off the greenhouse gas that plays the biggest role in warming the planet. As the EU tightens its regulations on carbon emissions, it’s wary of allowing foreign companies that face no climate-related costs at home to flood its market with cheaper goods.

The tariffs the EU is expected to propose on Wednesday will leave Biden with a grim set of options. The White House could take a page from Trump’s trade playbook and impose its own retaliatory tariffs,or it could seek to challenge the EU’s move by resurrecting the World Trade Organization’s hobbled dispute resolution body, an option sharply opposed by U.S. climate policy advocates.

“Are we really going to let an unelected international body dictate whether we act on climate and jobs? That would be insane,” said National Wildlife Federation CEO Collin O’Mara, who is close to the White House climate team and said he has discussed the trade topic “more in the past two weeks than in the last two years” on the Hill and with the administration.

Much of the conversation in U.S. climate policy circles centers on how to act on the vague promises Biden made during last year’s campaign to slap fees on carbon-heavy imports. The imminent EU proposal has pushed environmental groups and the Biden administration to speed up their policy discussions after dialogue with EU officials failed to slow the tariff rollout, as U.S. officials had hoped.

Both the EU and the U.S. insist any climate trade policy must remain compliant with WTO rules. Podesta said the EU had pushed for the WTO to facilitate a conversation with the U.S. over the carbon tariffs.

But the WTO is essentially mothballed since the Trump administration blocked the appointment of new members to fill its appellate body. The Biden administration hasn’t been enthusiastic about its track record, and its trade policy agenda noted the U.S. Trade Representative would address “systemic concerns” with the WTO’s appellate board that has been defunct since 2019, chiefly over disagreements with how it handled tariffs.

Green groups worry that the WTO has also tended to ignore environmental issues when deciding disputes.

“The WTO track record on climate and environmental protections hardly inspires confidence that this body should be issuing pronouncements on countries’ efforts to tackle the climate crisis,” said Ben Beachy, director of the Sierra Club’s living economy program.

The EU plan is expected to impose fees on imports of aluminum, steel, electricity, cement and some fertilizers that come from countries that lack their own domestic measures to fight climate change, according to a leaked draft obtained by POLITICO.

Full article here

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Steve Case
July 17, 2021 6:22 am

Beware of unintended consequences.

Reply to  Steve Case
July 17, 2021 8:20 am

Indeed. Eric Boehm explains at Reason:

More Tariffs Won’t End Pollution or Solve Global Warming. They’ll Just Make Stuff More Expensive.
Taxing Americans to punish other countries for having lax environmental rules would be a logistical and bureaucratic nightmare. Democrats are trying to do it anyway.
https://reason.com/2021/07/16/more-tariffs-wont-solve-pollution-or-global-warming/

Tsk Tsk
Reply to  Ron Clutz
July 17, 2021 9:53 am

Tariffs are the only tax boehm doesn’t like. And given his implicit support for Democrats, it’s a bit late for him to pretend he cares about their policies now.

Reply to  Steve Case
July 17, 2021 9:01 am

The civilization destroying consequences of climate alarmism are not unintended.

Steve Case
Reply to  co2isnotevil
July 17, 2021 12:05 pm

If you apply the “Duck Test” that is certainly the case.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Steve Case
July 18, 2021 2:24 am

yeah the recent reef debacle is hilarious own foot shot by the greentards whingeing

LdB
July 17, 2021 6:30 am

This is going to be an EU own goal they are going to have to have trouble with the trade commission and if that get past that start a series tit for tat trade wars …. pass the popcorn.

Anon
Reply to  LdB
July 17, 2021 11:44 pm

The whole thing is an EU swindle. Don’t forget, the EU has no petroleum reserves. This goes all the way back to the time of Hitler, who was focused on German economic autarky and had to produce synthetic fuel to get through the war. That reality has not changed.

However, that problem “magically” goes away, if the rest of the world can’t use petroleum either. Thus Europe achieves energy parity with the United States and the rest of the world.

The hope was that they could capture US environmentalist/progressives into greening the US economy, funded by Soros and Schwab NGOs, but since that didn’t work, the only way they can keep their economies competitive is with a protective Carbon Border Tax.

So, in the end it is an OWN GOAL… the carbon border tax is basically an admission of that, that they can no longer compete economically. So much for green energy being cheaper than fossil fuel. (lol)

Last edited 12 days ago by Anon
WXcycles
Reply to  Anon
July 19, 2021 5:06 pm

Interesting, since USA and Australia both developed and are still developing massive hydrocarbon export capacities plus domestic supplies, which produce lots of jobs, regular community income, state revenue, plus foreign investor profit flows. Anything the EU commission does that impairs this will indeed lead to strong negative counteraction against them.

Frankly Australians and Canberra expects Europe to reciprocate for the incredibly strong Australian support for European peace and prosperity efforts for the past 110 years. And to support Australian trade and security interests from here forward. If the EU fails to do that now just to push an CO2 ripoff agenda, that would poison relations with Europe and the EU Commission in particular for at least a generation. We wouldn’t forget if the leftist loonies in Europe strategically undermine us when we and the region needs a much stronger Australia, to stand against aggressive Chinese authoritarianism threatening to commence a new major war in the Pacific.

DMacKenzie
July 17, 2021 6:34 am

“Revenuers” exploiting any angle they can. Emissions angst is a huge cow to be milked.

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  DMacKenzie
July 17, 2021 6:53 am

“Follow the money.”

July 17, 2021 7:02 am

Of course will the recent floods in East Belgium, South Netherlands and West Germany be an argument for “unprecedented climate change” for Frans Timmermans.

griff
Reply to  Hans Erren
July 17, 2021 7:10 am

Well it is absolutely certain that when you get 2 months rain in a day, in summer, and experience worse flooding than any in living memory (or longer), even in winter, that an extreme weather event like that is caused by global warming.

It is entirely as predicted by climate science and entirely in line with the physics of a warmer atmosphere.

about time some here recognised that – and took a look at why US/Canada is now on its 4th extreme heatwave of the year, as well as heatwaves in Lapland, E Europe/russia and Siberia (again) just this year.

Redge
Reply to  griff
July 17, 2021 7:16 am

#StuckRecord

Submit a story, Griff, I’m sure Anthony will print it

TonyG
Reply to  Redge
July 17, 2021 2:07 pm

#StuckRecord

Stuck in a loop more likely.

Scissor
Reply to  griff
July 17, 2021 7:19 am

Methinks griff couldn’t explain the physics of a body at rest.

Willem Post
Reply to  Scissor
July 17, 2021 7:56 am

Or in motion

Rich Davis
Reply to  griff
July 17, 2021 7:22 am

griff
You were informed about much worse flooding in the 1340s, but you choose to ignore that, as you ignore this:

In which time period would you prefer to live your life?

[__] Benign low CO2 1675-1750
[__] Dangerous CO2 1950-2025
[__] Really nice CO2 1325-1345

Gregory Woods
Reply to  griff
July 17, 2021 7:24 am

Oh Griff, get a grip on your self…

Dave Fair
Reply to  Gregory Woods
July 17, 2021 3:55 pm

Gregory, are you suggesting Griff perform self-abuse?

Mr.
Reply to  griff
July 17, 2021 7:27 am

And not only all that, some ponds in Japan have steam coming out of them.

It’s the apocalypse, I tells ya! 😱

michael hart
Reply to  Mr.
July 17, 2021 12:35 pm

Yup, it’s all entirely as Nostradamus predicted….cats lying down with dogs….drone drone drone

michael hart
Reply to  michael hart
July 17, 2021 12:37 pm

…forgot to mention tarmac on green surfaces, building on flood plains. I expect Nostradamus predicted that too.

Reply to  griff
July 17, 2021 8:04 am

“It is entirely as predicted by climate science”

Really griff? Who specificaly predicted, before this year, this flooding at those locations? Citation please.

The climate is a pair of coupled, chaotic systems. The IPCC admits that it is impossible to predict.

Here are 50 years of actual specific predictions that were made in the past by climate scientists, which failed to occur. How do you explain that?
https://cei.org/blog/wrong-again-50-years-of-failed-eco-pocalyptic-predictions/

pHil R
Reply to  Ralph Dave Westfall
July 17, 2021 9:45 am

RDW,

I was going to up vote you for a reasoned, rational, factual reply to Griff, but it was a wasted response to an asinine, irrational, unfactual (but typical) Griff post, so I didn’t.

George Daddis
Reply to  griff
July 17, 2021 8:12 am

So then we can be certain that in the pre industrial era (say prior to 1800) there were no floods of like devastation in Germany.

Because if there were, then some other cause was responsible, right Griff?

John Bell
Reply to  griff
July 17, 2021 8:16 am

PLEASE all just ignore griff, he loves the attention, do not feed the trolls.

TonyG
Reply to  John Bell
July 17, 2021 2:07 pm

griff actually used to respond. He (they?) has now taken to drive-by comments and no engagement at all.

Of course, it’s been pointless to try to engage anyway since he never bothered to answer any direct questions. Although I admit I’ve been drawn in too.

whiten
Reply to  TonyG
July 17, 2021 2:38 pm

Tony,

From my view point, as I see it, griff is posh, and you and me are not.

I could be entirely wrong here, but I think that in that case will not hurt as much as griff not been posh.

Whatever!
😃

Reply to  griff
July 17, 2021 8:18 am

No griff, that is after-the-fact attribution.

tonyb
Editor
Reply to  griff
July 17, 2021 8:25 am

Griff

I keep providing you with references that demonstrate this has all happened in the past and often to a much worse extent but you put your fingers in your ears and reuse to respond.

tonyb

Ken Irwin
Reply to  griff
July 17, 2021 8:25 am

Griff absolutely anything is predicted by climate science.

That should tell you it’s not really science at all.

Griff – please offer us a prediction for something that won’t happen because of climate change.

MarkW
Reply to  Ken Irwin
July 17, 2021 9:24 am

I’ll take you up on that.
Because of climate change, griff will never make sense.

Reply to  griff
July 17, 2021 8:32 am

Have a look at the geography of the region.
There are many hills and mountains, and the low pressure system was pushed in higher atmospheric regions with lower temperatures and respectively more and heavier rain.
But that are facts you are not interested in.

fretslider
Reply to  griff
July 17, 2021 8:43 am

Well it is absolutely certain that when you get 2 months rain in a day, in summer, and experience worse flooding than any in living memory…

That you realise how short a human lifetime is in the scheme of things. And when they’re as young as you come across as, griff, then you realise how powerful multi generational indoctrination really is.

Are you medicating for climate anxiety?

Last edited 13 days ago by fretslider
observa
Reply to  griff
July 17, 2021 9:11 am

Must be a Northern Hemisphere thing griff cos Tim Flannery when he was appointed Climate Commissioner for Oz reckoned global warmening was not gunna fill our dams again. You know the same paleontologist that reckoned mega fires killed the Megafauna down under but the last east coast Oz bushfires were a sign of the dooming.

Your global warming works in mysterious ways my son and you need to pay attention to experts like Tim and not deny their science. Hot dry and we’re all gunna burn up remember griff so if you keep this heresy up you’ll be excommunicated and no EV subsidy for you when you trade in that gas guzzler of yours.

MarkW
Reply to  griff
July 17, 2021 9:22 am

If one lie doesn’t work, just pack in a couple more.
Another trick the trolls play is to redefine words. Extreme used to mean something, now it just means warmer than last year.

Getting 2 months worth of rain is not unusual, it happens somewhere on the planet at least once or twice a year. It’s just that this time it happened in a place where lots of people live.

griff keeps claiming that everything that happens was predicted by the global warming computers, but he can’t ever find a source to support that claim.

TonyG
Reply to  MarkW
July 17, 2021 2:08 pm

“Another trick the trolls play is to redefine words.”

Not just trolls. Lot of that going on in the world lately.

Doonman
Reply to  griff
July 17, 2021 9:42 am

Its called “weather cooking” griff. It’s accomplished by witches casting spells.

We already solved that problem once in the 1600’s with mass executions. We can do that again; its easier now. Just a push button away.

Since you are not a witch, you need not worry. Problem solved.

Jean Parisot
Reply to  Doonman
July 17, 2021 8:08 pm

I suspect BS floats. He might be worried.

pHil R
Reply to  griff
July 17, 2021 9:49 am

I’ll tells ya one thing…Griff really knows how to bomb and take over a thread with one asinine, irrational post.

Wonder if this says more about Griff or the rest of us who can’t or won’t ignore him/her/it.

Last edited 13 days ago by pHil R
Rich Davis
Reply to  pHil R
July 17, 2021 12:18 pm

You’re right of course but it’s so much fun! Don’t be a k!lljoy

pHil R
Reply to  Rich Davis
July 17, 2021 1:07 pm

Good point. I didn’t think of it that way.

Dave Fair
Reply to  Rich Davis
July 17, 2021 4:01 pm

I’m beginning to suspect that Griff is actually a sophisticated skeptic setting up soft pitches to elicit actual facts.

Sweet Old Bob
Reply to  pHil R
July 17, 2021 1:16 pm

It just shows how caring we are , being Eds emotional support group. He needs attention , so that he can still feel like he is important . Or something .

😉

Derg
Reply to  griff
July 17, 2021 10:24 am

There it is….the skate boarders word.

“extreme“

pigs_in_space
Reply to  Krishna Gans
July 17, 2021 12:31 pm

what about this one Griff??

“The great storm of 1703 was a destructive extratropical cyclone that struck central and southern England on 26 November 1703.

High winds caused 2,000 chimney stacks to collapse in London and damaged the New Forest which lost 4,000 oaks. Ships were blown hundreds of miles off-course, and over 1,000 seamen died on the Goodwin sands alone.. ”

This was down to “climate change” wasn’t it according to you and Harrabin??

The disaster in Germany this week was a little pimple on the scale compared with many of the disasters of the past, but then there were no fake news factories.

AndyHce
Reply to  griff
July 17, 2021 11:53 am

Was the 1862 rain in California that filled the central valley with a 300 mile by 50 mile lake, and created several large lakes in southern California, caused by “global warming”?

Reply to  AndyHce
July 17, 2021 3:03 pm

Wasn’t 1860 the beginning of the AGW counting years?
😀

AndyHce
Reply to  Krishna Gans
July 17, 2021 9:56 pm

The IPCC says 1960

Tom Abbott
Reply to  griff
July 17, 2021 1:12 pm

“and took a look at why US/Canada is now on its 4th extreme heatwave of the year”

It’s summertime in the U.S., Griff.

It gets hot here every summer, more of less, depending on where the high-pressure systems set up. It’s raining out in Arizona right now. You know, that place you were worried was going to burn up in the heatwave it experienced a few weeks ago. Heatwaves come and go.

A few days of a heatwave is nothing around here. Wait until we get a few months of that type of weather. We’ve had it in the past, as recently as 2011, and that 2011 kind of weather was typical weather for the time back when I was a kid.

But we haven’t had those kinds of heatwaves in many years, with the exception of 2011. We’ve had a really pleasant summer so far around here this year, although it looks like a high-pressure systems is building over our area now, so it’s going to get warmer. Which is typical for this time of year. The hottest part of our year is usually around the middle of August.

John in Oz
Reply to  Tom Abbott
July 17, 2021 6:16 pm

I have the same memories of very hot summers in South Australia back in my teen years in the 60’s and 70’s, possibly times when Griff was not even a tingle in his dad’s groin.

Nowadays, any high 30s temperature in the Adelaide area is the end of the world and we’re all going to fry, even if for only one day.

‘Average’ and ‘normal’ descriptors are mistakenly (or deliberately) used to hype the catastrophe, as if any departure from those mathematically-derived numbers is unusual and caused by climate change/global warming/climate weirding/<insert your favourite thermageddon disaster word here>.

Philo
Reply to  griff
July 17, 2021 1:18 pm

No it is not absolutely certain. It isn’t even predicted by climate models. Remember, climate is the average of weather. Neither are the heatwaves. Climate models as yet cannot model near 1deg of circumference of the earth. Plus they can’t repeat their results very well if at all.

It’s particularly not so because climate models don’t predict specific results, but projected climate which does not give details on heatwaves.

Dave Fair
Reply to  griff
July 17, 2021 3:53 pm

But the UN IPCC CliSciFi practitioners (2014 AR5 and 2018 SREX) assert that climate metrics have not deteriorated. Since the facts don’t jibe with the “science” predictions, who you gonna believe, the “science” or your lying eyes? Sadly for you, the various GCMs contradict each other in floods, droughts, etc. Apparently, your “science” is in the eye of the beholder.

John Dueker
Reply to  griff
July 17, 2021 10:17 pm

I wonder how high the negative ratings for Griff nonsense can go. Is there a record to be broken? Besides the one he keeps playing.

Eric Vieira
Reply to  griff
July 18, 2021 1:53 am

A lot of people have already forgotten that massive flooding does occur from time to time. For example in Germany in 1997 (the news don’t mention this.. go figure…)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_Central_European_flood

Eric Vieira
Reply to  Hans Erren
July 18, 2021 1:44 am

Just to mention something on the fringe: At the moment there are massive protests going on in France with over 100K demonstrators both in Paris and Marseille against Macron’s decision to mandate Covid vaccinations for health personnel. The reason: If you mandate it for them, then the next logical step is to make it compulsory for everyone. The only official news media I’ve seen that mentions this outside of France: some in Italy, one in the French speaking part of Switzerland (Le Matin). Otherwise nothing! Nada! Complete silence! Nothing in the German speaking regions (Switzerland, Germany or Austria). It’s appalling, but it’s slowly getting really bad here…

Bruce Cobb
July 17, 2021 7:12 am

Meh. Carbon alliance, trade war, potato potahto.

Joel O'Bryan
July 17, 2021 7:15 am

imposing fees on imports of things not made within the EU only drastically increases the costs (prices) for Europeans for everyday items. The article mentioned imports of electricity would face higher tariffs. Just who does the EU think is going to pay those fees? The seller or the consumer?

Scissor
Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
July 17, 2021 7:27 am

You and I and many others know of course that regulators are just making everything more expensive.There are opportunities for regular people to benefit from the scam.

I’m long Generac Holdings (GNRC) maker of backup power generation systems.

Robert Hanson
Reply to  Scissor
July 17, 2021 11:54 am

Wow, up 550% in the last 16 months !

whiten
Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
July 17, 2021 8:45 am

Joel,

At this point, as things have progressed, what EU is doing it is unavoidable.
The only way EU can survive.

And is not about climate.

It is simply a path to a fair and stable auctioning – leasing of EU assets.

cheers

Retired_Engineer_Jim
Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
July 17, 2021 9:06 am

Does the EU import electricity from outside the EU?

Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
July 17, 2021 9:14 am

F.e. Swizzerland.

Eric Vieira
Reply to  Krishna Gans
July 18, 2021 2:04 am

Not for long… Our socialist (far green left) energy minister has just declared that the flooding could compromise the security of our remaining nuclear power plants. She has been wanting to shut them down for some time already… Her energy strategy for the future: an import strategy. Import from whom.. uhhhhh… not of concern… less is more…

Rich Davis
Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
July 17, 2021 9:50 am

Are you forgetting hydro from Norway?

D. J. Hawkins
Reply to  Rich Davis
July 19, 2021 12:05 pm

Yes, but there’s only so much cake on the plate.

Dave Fair
Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
July 17, 2021 4:06 pm

Institute carbon (dioxide) taxes to raise domestic prices and double-down by imposing tariffs on goods from lower cost producers to further raise domestic prices. What’s not to like about government looking out for your wellbeing?

Rich Davis
July 17, 2021 7:31 am

The bilateral relationship between the U.S. and EU democracy is perhaps the most important relationship now to create a structure for solving these global problems, and that’s why this is sort of a test case for that.

EU democracy?
What democracy, the anti-democratic EU Commission?

MarkW
Reply to  Rich Davis
July 17, 2021 9:27 am

Liberals like to call themselves democratic, but like the communist regimes they support, they take the form of democracy, but gut all the functionality out of it.

Last edited 13 days ago by MarkW
Rich Davis
Reply to  MarkW
July 17, 2021 10:06 am

Yes indeed.

You are using ‘liberals’ in the US/Canadian sense (big government pro-socialist left-wingers, fascists basically).

I clarify that for our friends in Europe and Australia where a liberal is (used to be?) pro-markets and free enterprise.

TonyG
Reply to  Rich Davis
July 17, 2021 2:10 pm

Rich, that’s why I keep suggesting “leftist” instead. Doesn’t seem to be taking on though.
I despise the corruption of words.

Rich Davis
Reply to  TonyG
July 17, 2021 3:56 pm

As you’re probably aware, in the US context, a conservative is a classical liberal who wants to conserve the Constitutional system of checks and balances, and individual liberty.

A liberal in the US context wants to break free of the constraints of the constitutional straightjacket that was designed to limit government action. Most of all, they want to spend other people’s money liberally to buy votes.

Good luck getting people to say leftist. Trying to change language usage is usually futile, though much easier by far than getting people to use Celsius or the metric system 🙂

TonyG
Reply to  Rich Davis
July 17, 2021 4:32 pm

Absolutely right there, Rich. But I can’t help but to keep trying.

Gary Pearse
Reply to  MarkW
July 17, 2021 6:30 pm

Like the Democratic Republic of North Korea, the former Deutsche Demokratische Republik, or Canada’s New Democratic Party. The “protesteth to much” poker tell.

Kevin kilty
July 17, 2021 7:38 am

One can only hope that climate hysteria will reduce standards of living in Europe enough for people to actually notice, by which I mean reduce standards of living a lot. It may be the only way to renew reason.

Rich Davis
Reply to  Kevin kilty
July 17, 2021 9:11 am

I am hoping that the EU, UK, and Calizuela will provide enough crash dummy results that a remnant of the West turns back from the suicide pact.

MarkW
Reply to  Rich Davis
July 17, 2021 9:32 am

Biden will inform the social media that any claims of problems in the EU or Calizuela are just misinformation, and posts referencing such things will quickly be banned. If you continue to make new posts proclaiming these things, the FBI will visit your home in the early morning hours to make sure you are no longer able to spread dis-information.

Rich Davis
Reply to  MarkW
July 17, 2021 10:15 am

I’ve been asked to clarify that I’m a capitalist running dog who was spewing thought crime and undermining societal harmony.

Will you please release my wife and children now, Jen Psaki?

Robert Hanson
Reply to  Rich Davis
July 17, 2021 12:14 pm

If only that were funny…..

The current administration is already telling Facebook to delete posts that contain “misinformation” (sic) and make a list of people who continue to try to post it. Now, why would they want such a list?

Rich Davis
Reply to  Robert Hanson
July 17, 2021 12:49 pm

I don’t know what you are talking about. Jen Psaki is the most responsible press secretary of the greatest President of all time, our dear leader Joseph Biden, who won the most votes in history.

Please, please let them go now!

Dave Fair
Reply to  Robert Hanson
July 17, 2021 4:11 pm

If the U.S. leftists/Marxists continue down this road, we will have a 2nd Amendment solution to tyranny.

Eric Vieira
Reply to  MarkW
July 18, 2021 2:15 am

Have you heard about Cyber Polygon? They simulate a massive world wide cyber attack… just like the world wide corona pandemic. Next step: mandate international “security credentials” to avoid an IT catastrophe.. You can bet that “unofficial media” will be shut down in the future, for “security reasons.” The word “censorship” will simply disappear…

whiten
Reply to  Rich Davis
July 17, 2021 10:36 am

Rich,
if I remember right, you asked me at some point about Britain.

Now let me payback and ask you about Calizuela.
You, as I did not answer your question,
you too are not obliged to answer my question.

But;
What is Calizuela to you!

Last edited 13 days ago by whiten
Rich Davis
Reply to  whiten
July 17, 2021 12:01 pm

My daughter and her fiancé and his family live there, and I also have business interests there, as well as some friends. It is (up to now at least) part of my country. But I don’t live there, I live in Connecticut.

Does that earn me an answer in return?

whiten
Reply to  Rich Davis
July 17, 2021 12:11 pm

Thank you.

🙂

whiten
Reply to  whiten
July 17, 2021 12:29 pm

Yes,

I am originally from a country in Europe, and still live there now, in my birth country.
An European.

But for a good and long enough time lived in London UK, GB.

Where among other things I learned English.
Was a real good and beautiful time experience for me.

Part of my personality was fermented there, within the means of the culture, tradition and knowledge history of the British.

Still from my position I still consider my self in debt with the British and UK.

Oh, well, hopefully that is a good enough answer to your query.

No body is perfect, but I think that, people like you and me have no ugly skeletons in our cupboards, as to be subjected to “hostage taking”.

Thanks Rich Davis.
I appreciate a lot your honest directness… body.
Especially when some of your comments look so clean and polished, as to be considered perfect. 🙂

👇✌

cheers

Last edited 13 days ago by whiten
Rich Davis
Reply to  whiten
July 17, 2021 1:32 pm

Ha ha perfect. Well, I don’t know if I should blush or recognize sarcasm, but I will thank you for the response nonetheless.

It is good that you leave me with some mystery, a European country but not a specific one. We have narrowed the scope substantially.

Cheers!

whiten
Reply to  Rich Davis
July 17, 2021 2:06 pm

My pleasure.
😊

Dave Fair
Reply to  whiten
July 17, 2021 4:13 pm

Again, WTF?

Dave Fair
Reply to  whiten
July 17, 2021 4:12 pm

WTF?

whiten
Reply to  Dave Fair
July 17, 2021 6:23 pm

Dave Fair

What are you actually asking about?

Oh, well, maybe I should not have asked back, but too late now. 🙂

Reply to  Kevin kilty
July 17, 2021 9:16 am

That will happen and did start to happen.
In so far, COV-19 was welcome

MarkW
Reply to  Kevin kilty
July 17, 2021 9:29 am

Unfortunately, once the police state gets installed, the ability of individuals to object to their impoverishment rapidly disappears.

Just look at what has happened in Cuba in recent weeks.
Or Venezuela over the last few decades.

Last edited 13 days ago by MarkW
George Daddis
July 17, 2021 7:52 am

Are we really going to let an unelected international body dictate whether we act on climate and jobs? “

But I bet this doofus activist has been all too willing to follow the dictates of the IPCC!

MarkW
Reply to  George Daddis
July 17, 2021 9:33 am

It really is ironic to see a leftist whining about unelected bodies. Considering that is how they have gotten most of their agenda enacted.

gringojay
July 17, 2021 7:54 am

“May you live in interesting times” was originally an aphorism, not a how to guide for destroying prosperity.

pHil R
Reply to  gringojay
July 17, 2021 9:51 am

…and “1984” was meant to be a warning, not an instruction manual.

Willem Post
July 17, 2021 7:54 am

The US holds all the cards regarding the EU, because the EU has a huge trade surplus with the US.

That trade surplus is largely due to US trade negotiators being outmaneuvered by EU trade negotiators, time and time again, since 1960.

If the EU imposes a universal carbon tax, the US merely imposes a universal import tax on all EU imports of GOODS and SERVICES, including those from businesses the EU owns/controls in Mexico, Canada, etc.

That would immediately kill the EU carbon tax.

Russia and the Middle East would be in much more of a bind, because they export oil and gas to the EU.

Gregory Woods
Reply to  Willem Post
July 17, 2021 8:08 am

I don’t think so – it is the Europeans will be in a bind as energy costs become unsupportable..

Willem Post
Reply to  Gregory Woods
July 17, 2021 11:51 am

Any US tax on EU imports will be paid by US people, up to a point.

Therefore the import tax must be high enough to deter most US people from buying the EU imports.

At that point, the EU would beg for the US to eliminate the import tax, as otherwise their economies would collapse.

The US would say: First get rid of your carbon tax, then we sit down to talk.

DonM
Reply to  Gregory Woods
July 17, 2021 7:09 pm

The European govt will be in a bind as they try to explain how & why they are (or aren’t) putting an extra tariff on the gas coming from Russia.

“Hey … those evil carbon spewing Ruskies, we will only buy their gas if they pay a tariff; they have to pay us 5% of the payment that we pay them. That will keep them from having a big carbon advantage over us.”

Rich Davis
Reply to  Willem Post
July 17, 2021 9:22 am

How does it impact them at all? It’s the ordinary citizens in the EU who will pay. I guess that in theory it could reduce demand, but since Dementia Joe’s puppetmasters are strangling domestic production, the US will make up for any reduced demand and prices are skyrocketing. The result of the insane policies in the EU, US, and UK is enriching the enlightened regimes in Russia and the Middle East.

Scissor
Reply to  Rich Davis
July 17, 2021 9:37 am

Ask Greta.
comment image

Gregory Woods
Reply to  Scissor
July 17, 2021 9:51 am

Great name for a ‘reality tv show’: Ask Greta

Scissor
Reply to  Gregory Woods
July 17, 2021 10:40 am

Unreality.

Willem Post
Reply to  Gregory Woods
July 17, 2021 11:54 am

As Greta grows older, she will be severely traumatized by her current behavior, which is largely encouraged by her RE nut father.

Scissor
Reply to  Willem Post
July 17, 2021 12:53 pm

Hard to predict. She says she was diagnosed with Asperger syndrome, obsessive compulsive disorder and selective mutism.

People with these conditions tend to become better socialized as they grow older but they remain wired differently.

Gregory Woods
Reply to  Rich Davis
July 17, 2021 9:50 am

and China…

Robert Alfred Taylor
Reply to  Willem Post
July 17, 2021 4:17 pm

Ten to 0ne, the Democrats would say things and make gestures, but do nothing effective.

Dave Fair
Reply to  Willem Post
July 17, 2021 4:18 pm

The US holds all the cards regarding the EU, because the EU has a huge trade surplus with the US.” If you owe the bank $1,000 dollars, the bank owns you. If you owe the bank $1 million dollars, you own the bank.

Willem Post
Reply to  Dave Fair
July 17, 2021 6:49 pm

If that is what you think, I feel sorry for you

Dave Fair
Reply to  Willem Post
July 17, 2021 7:24 pm

After decades of observation, I’m pretty sure I’m right, Willem. A group of utilities owed the Feds $2.5 billion. I was involved in the successful write-off of $1.5 billion of that amount. The Fed negotiators and their bosses hated it, but were forced to agree due to the financial circumstances of the utilities.

James Snook
July 17, 2021 8:02 am

The EU plan is expected to impose fees on imports of aluminum, steel, electricity, cement and some fertilizers that come from countries that lack their own domestic measures to fight climate change, according to a leaked draft obtained by POLITICO.

Presumably that will include Russian gas from the new Nordstrom pipeline. That will be popular with German voters.

Tsk Tsk
Reply to  James Snook
July 17, 2021 9:56 am

That’s different, just like imports from China. Because reasons.

fretslider
July 17, 2021 8:26 am

EU Newspeak: The bilateral relationship between the U.S. and EU democracy

Hello. The EU is anything but democratic. I’m guessing, hoping even, that some across the pond might just appreciate that the EU is governed by an appointed commission. It is nothing like the [Federal] United States at all.

Each member state gets to nominate a commissioner (usually someone who is washed up or disgraced at home and is owed… eg Neil Kinnock and Peter Mandelson.) In the dark smoke filled rooms they haggle and tussle for a particular prize portfolio like finance or foreign affairs and…. President of the Commission.

Ursula von der Leyen (or VDL) was up to her eyeballs in scams and corruption scandals from her time as German defence minister. That all magically went away. And now she can make a real dog’s breakfast of things in Northern Ireland etc And, true to form, she has.

Only the EU Commission can draft legislation (EU Directives) There is a rubber stamp parliament – Europarl – that gives the illusion of democracy to the organisation and [some] voters.

Directives in a sense are flexible, the goals are clearly set out. How the members choose to achieve them it is a matter for them. They just have to get it done.

Never confuse the EU with a democratic institution. It is ruled by a politburo. That’s why we call it the EUSSR

Last edited 13 days ago by fretslider
Eric Vieira
Reply to  fretslider
July 18, 2021 2:28 am

It used to be called “kicked upwards”… You forgot to mention Junker the EU equivalent of
Boris Jeltzin… We he was drunk and couldn’t walk straight, they talked about his sciatic nerve problems…

Tsk Tsk
July 17, 2021 9:58 am

What western alliance? The one where the US pays for everything and does all the fighting? Let it be done.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Tsk Tsk
July 17, 2021 1:22 pm

That’s the one!

Shoki Kaneda
July 17, 2021 10:41 am

It doesn’t matter what Europeans say or terminology they use; it’s always about protectionism.

Gary Pearse
July 17, 2021 11:22 am

“As the EU tightens its regulations on carbon emissions…”

We used to joke about the insane running the asylum, but what else is it? They are in den*ial about the 5 billion non-Western folk who are going gangbusters on economic prosperity and finding it in coal powered electrification. These people are not going to be stopped (nor bought out as the West is balking at coming up with the dough).

The poor nations have a deep distrust of former colonizers as it is and Europe opening three coal mines to keep what remains of its industry alive is poor advertising for restraint on ff energy.

Moreover, the miraculous success of countries like Bangladesh, Pakistan, and a number of other formerly poor Asian countries whose GDPs leapt into double digit growth within 5 yrs following installation of modern coal power plants. Africa is following suit and according to World bank figures, Africa south of the Sahara is up to 3% growth. There is no turning back. There is no chance that we won’t do the Big CO2 experiment quicker than business as usual reaching 600ppm before 2100. Wanna bet (actually a betting pool on climate would be interesting).

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Gary Pearse
July 17, 2021 1:25 pm

“We used to joke about the insane running the asylum, but what else is it?”

That’s what it looks like to me. I don’t know why they are insane, but they sure do insane things. It’s a human psychological affliction of some kind. It seems to be highly contagious. Some are immune, though.

TonyG
Reply to  Tom Abbott
July 17, 2021 2:14 pm

I recall reading a story where those we classify as “insane” today became the majority, thereby resulting in the reversal of the criteria for sane vs. insane. We seem awfully close to that now. Wish I could remember the author or title.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  TonyG
July 18, 2021 4:24 am

“I recall reading a story where those we classify as “insane” today became the majority, thereby resulting in the reversal of the criteria for sane vs. insane.”

There was a place called “Bizarro World” in some of the comic books of old. Bizarro World was where everything was just the opposite of the real world. I think Superman made a few trips to Bizarro World, if I recall correctly. He always came back to reality.

Gary Pearse
July 17, 2021 11:53 am

“EU is planning to announce carbon trade barriers against the rest of the world”

Europe seems to think they are indispensable still after decimating their economies by shipping industries and their jobs to China and burdening remaining industries and agriculture with high costs for intermittent energy (reducing industries’ actual productive capacity). Anything we could possibly want from Europe could, alternatively, be manufactured at home cheaper than importing it. This is a new way to export jobs from Europe.

The insane seem to want to isolate themselves. This will also be a signal to Getmany, the heart, brain and gut of the EU, to get clear of this foundering mess.

Gary Pearse
Reply to  Gary Pearse
July 17, 2021 11:54 am

Sheesh – make that ‘Germany’.

Robert Alfred Taylor
Reply to  Gary Pearse
July 17, 2021 4:21 pm

I thought “Getmany” was deliberate. I like it.

Eric Vieira
Reply to  Robert Alfred Taylor
July 18, 2021 2:30 am

I would rather say “Getmoney”

old engineer
Reply to  Gary Pearse
July 17, 2021 12:59 pm

Gary-

 This is a new way to export jobs from Europe.”

That was my thought also. It seems the leaders of the EU don’t think things all the way through before they act. Or maybe, as someone suggested above, they do.

Dave Fair
Reply to  old engineer
July 17, 2021 4:24 pm

Hubris.

michael hart
July 17, 2021 12:30 pm

“Green groups worry that the WTO has also tended to ignore environmental issues when deciding disputes.”

My, perhaps naive, understanding of the WTO, was that it was there to explicitly prevent blocs and nations from inserting their own particular pet biases into the world trading system.

Anyway, the Harris administration is getting what it asked for.

Peta of Newark
July 17, 2021 1:01 pm

They’re broke – need the new and rising taxes – themselves classically indicative of totally wasted economies.

They are in A Hole yet digging like their lives depended.

What Do You Do?
What can anyone do in the face of such insanity – because that is exactly what it is.
Perfect. Complete. Madness

haha
Edit to add:
Feed them saturated fat, wean them all off sugar.
And, it would actually work.

Pigs might fly………..

Last edited 13 days ago by Peta of Newark
Tom Morrow
July 17, 2021 1:43 pm

Does this mean they will be banning all goods from China in the near future? Or is that somehow different, even though China is the world’s greatest producer of carbon emissions?

Ted
Reply to  Tom Morrow
July 17, 2021 5:08 pm

They’ll just say China is living up to the Paris accord.

ResourceGuy
July 17, 2021 2:11 pm

I predict the media and the Administration will run silent and deep on this one.

The Dark Lord
July 17, 2021 4:43 pm

Why a half measure of tariffs ? Just ban the import of EU products … They want to play … Lets play …

Vincent Causey
July 18, 2021 12:25 am

The goal of the EU is global regulatory dominance. The first phase of this strategy is to impose the regulatory environment on its members. The next phase is expansion to increase its regulatory reach. The final phase is to use its economic power to impose the regulatory environment on its trading partners. We are now in that final phase.

ozspeaksup
July 18, 2021 2:23 am

same issues for Aus as well
hmm
so they can manage to find our resources elsewhere from 3rd world nations even less green I guess?
stuff the EU!!

Steve Z
July 19, 2021 3:27 pm

“Are we really going to let an unelected international body dictate whether we act on climate and jobs? That would be insane,”

That’s the main problem with dealing with the European Union, and not only regarding climate change, but on many issues. Most decisions in the European Union are made by the European Commission, whose members are appointed by the heads of state (President or Prime Minister) of the respective countries every ten years. There are literally thousands of unelected bureaucrats working for the Commission, accountable to no one except the Commission, which is itself accountable to no one for ten years.

They have the power to force “regulations” down the throats of all the member countries, regardless of whether the current head of state (whose politics may disagree with the that of a previous head of state who appointed commissioners) or any national parliaments may disagree with them. The European Parliament is virtually toothless, and has much less power than the American Congress.

It is nothing short of amazing that a group of parliamentary democracies could have decided to unite under such an undemocratic system of government, but the “elites” basically proposed this system and asked people to vote Yes or No on the whole thing, take it or leave it, and proponents basically told people that a Yes vote meant peace, and a No vote meant war.

It’s no wonder that the people of the UK finally had the courage to dump this system, and Brexit hasn’t gone as smoothly as hoped. Trying to negotiate with the European Commission may be slightly less agreeable than negotiating with a nest or hornets, so maybe the best idea would be to not change current policy.

Joel Snider
July 20, 2021 9:21 pm

A carbon trade war.
My God.
A global policy war over the Emperor’s New Clothes.
Down and down the spiral goes,
where it stops, nobody knows…

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