This post qualifies as a Friday Funny as well as being topical.
How various #ClimateChange dummies, from John Kerry to Prince Charles to Pope Francis, eagerly embraced the “wet market” theory for the origin of Covid-19, even though it has not one iota of evidence going for it.
The wet market theory has not definitely been ruled out (yet), but it’s a lot more believable than Gore, the Prince and the Pope. Besides, climate scientists like Jane Fonda are behind them and she’s never been right.
I never comment here but have been an avid reader for years. In my old capacity in government, I wound up assigned to the SARS-1 task force in 2002 as crisis augmentation. The group was headed by Dr. Fauci. The word then was that SARS came from animal transmission to humans from civets or bats. There was no speculation of Lab involvement, and not much controversy about what animal may have harbored the virus. When COVID began to spread early last year, I knew from meetings years ago there was interest in further research into SARS by our government. When COVID began to spread, I assumed it was a lab accident involving SARS material under investigation. The denial of that origin was ferocious, and only now it is confirmed that US funding supported at least some of the activity at the Wuhan Lab. It makes sense. Regrettably, it is only part of why I trust nothing issued from my former employer.
Vic: Thanks for posting, your low quantity is ok when your rare post is of high quality. You say “the denial of that origin was ferocious”; I noticed that, and found it to be evidence from the mouths of those who cried “no evidence of lab leak”.
We (the self informed public) are learning. The more general and vociferous the denials and misdirection, the more sure we should be that the powerful interests are to blame and the cover up is in play. Open and comprehensive investigation followed by severe punishment for those who participate in the lies and cover up is necessary to prevent future abuses of the public trust.
Indeed, the line from the bard “methinks the lady doth protest too much” is very applicable.
Thank you Vic.
The incredible mismanagement of the false Covid-19 pandemic since January 2020 cannot be simply ascribed to gross incompetence by government and health authorities.
I knew about the Dr Fauci involvement about one year ago – he originated the gain-of-function virus research and offshored it to Wuhan when it was declared illegal in the USA. But the lockdown scam is global-scale – much bigger than just Dr Fauci.
A year ago I concluded that the Covid-19 virus originated from the Wuhan lab and not at the wet market. The only question then was “did the virus jump from the Wuhan lab, or was it pushed?”
Based on all the dystopian events since then, the rational conclusion is that the virus did not escape, but was pushed out of the lab – deliberately released for political and financial gain.
There was never any justification for the lockdown of under-65’s – all we needed to do was over-protect the very elderly and infirm. I published that conclusion with confidence on 21March2020 and that was correct.
There was no increase in total deaths in Alberta or Canada up to 30June2020 – no increase in total deaths means no deadly pandemic. Repeating, the lockdowns etc were never justified – so who pulled the strings?
The lockdowns have cost society ~100 times more harm than the Covid-19 illness – it was never a close call.
A case is being prepared in Canada to pursue our government leaders for criminal negligence. Other western democracies should do the same.
CLIMATE CHANGE, COVID-19, AND THE GREAT RESET
A CLIMATE, ENERGY AND COVID PRIMER FOR POLITICIANS AND MEDIA
By Allan M.R. MacRae, Published March 21, 2021, Update 1e published May 8, 2021
https://thsresearch.files.wordpress.com/2021/05/climate-change-covid-19-and-the-great-reset-update-1e-readonly.docx
Fauci, Collins (and the MIL?). offshored risky virus research to Winnipeg, Tiblisi and Wuhan but now play dumb about this. They needed a big distraction from this and a fear campaign with lockdowns did the trick. A better distraction than post 9/11 reactions. A lame investigation was also the call of this hour and the WHO delivered this time. The press hubris towards Trump was handy to take most eyes off the ball. PR China also didn’t want this hot potato although they are normally quite keen to spy on foreign edge research. This was over the edge, too risky. GOF without parallel counter measures = vaccines, plus in a new unexperienced lab in a big city with its own international airport – nuts.
Kunming is six hundred of miles closer to the bat caves and would have given a more plausible cover story because these live markets were everywhere.
I always found opinions that argued for conspiracies in notable and concerning events to be hard to be believed and I wondered about the thinking process of proponents. Think James Garrison and the Kennedy assassination. Think “the CIA did it” theory of the Twin Towers. Think “Roosevelt knew” about Pearl Harbor, etc. However, I find myself surprisingly much less skeptical not only of those who argue the COVID-19 virus originated in a Wuhan lab, but also of those who argue it was “pushed out,” at least by willful indifference if not by purposeful action.
What we do know with reasonable certainty for a fact is that gain-of-function on corona viruses was being done in a North Carolina lab and Fauci was involved (provided funding). We know when such work was deemed “too dangerous” to be done in the US, the knowledge and materials developed there were sent to Wuhan, where the US funded some of the work through a non-profit. Those are facts we know. with reasonable certainty.
Then, can we believe the US gov’t would have NO idea what was subsequently being done in that Wuhan lab? I’m NOT saying the US was involved in the release of the virus, accidental or not. I AM saying the US agencies involved almost certainly would have thought through the “what might happen if something bad happens” scenarios. I can’t believe the CIA would not have been looped in before the transfer was made.
How easy it would have been for the CIA (or whomever) to think “If a virus gets loose, that can be blamed on the Chinese; we’re clean. And, if a virus gets loose, we will have a “dry run” for an intentional biowarfare attack. Even if it stays isolated in China, we’ll learn something. If it spreads further, we’ll learn even more. Better we learn how to deal with such things without the context of a clear attack from a foreign power that would bring other overwhelming social pressure to bear.”
On the other hand, the Chinese could have been thinking, “If we take this and a virus gets loose, we can use our draconian powers and cultural subservience to clamp down in Wuhan, but be looser about letting people travel outside China. Doing that would injure the West’s economies more than ours and serve as a warning, ‘be careful or we’ll allow an even more deadly virus to ‘escape’ and no one will know it’s actually an attack on you by us.'”
And even if the CIA would have understood this possible thinking by the Chinese, the CIA might have thought, “OK, we’re willing to play that game because we’re all covered from a PR POV and we have more intellectual horsepower and facilities capabilities than the Chinese so catch-up and leap-ahead won’t be too hard. We need to test how quickly and effectively our virus defenses (vaccines) can be marshalled and deployed and to what effect.”
That would explain the clear effort by the US (Fauci in the lead) to downplay treatment and focus almost exclusively on vaccines. If early treatment were shown to be successful, they would not learn how quickly/ completely the US population could be effectively immunized, which might be the ONLY treatment for a TRULY deadly virus.
Conspiratorial? Far-fetched? I don’t know. It sounds like perfectly plausible gaming that both sides are always doing. It’s exactly the kind of “who will do what and what are all the ramifications” strategizing any competent intelligence agency should constantly be doing.
And, what’s the chance Fauci is a mole
In any case, it’s a movie I could write.
My previous response should have been addressed to Meisha.
“I always found opinions that argued for conspiracies in notable and concerning events to be hard to be believed and I wondered about the thinking process of proponents.”
And were you able to overcome that bias, and approach any such matters objectively?
“Conspiratorial? Far-fetched? I don’t know. It sounds like perfectly plausible gaming that both sides are always doing.”
Always doing it does not render it non-conspiratorial, and if our “side” is always doing it, those sort of matters you mentioned to begin with, can’t logically be “taken off the table” so to speak, can they?
I have always been of the belief that conspiracies are rare and very difficult to pull off just because people are so eager to talk about their knowledge and part in important things. But I have recently decided that we probably have a significant number of what I call, “conspiracies of common interest’. More and more we see that these can be maintained by some common interest with the media organizations that we depend on to ferret out the truth about these things. Examples I would site from the past include, ‘pedophilia in the Catholic Church”, The JFK assassination ( which may have been the mafia but that fails to account for the cover up), The story of Jeffrey Epstein, which I can only explain by supposing that he was a source for somebody ( CIA and/or FBI) and ran honey traps that provided intel and powerful leverage over major figures in politics and business. Also, it seems obvious that the “deep state” is real to at least some extent, and similarly to the media, have taken on the notion that they answer to no one and should be arbiters of what the public should know. Large and powerful institutions have always looked after their most important interests. That is why Vladimir Putin rose from the KGB after the collapse of the Soviet Union to take over the government. This is why we need to be wary of powerful and longstanding institutions. They are like bacterial slimes and create their own defenses.
Allan,
We share a great deal of common ground regarding the Wuhan virus, but I beg to differ on two points you raise.
First: there’s no reasonable motive for the CCP to deliberately leak the virus in Wuhan to infect the planet. This is not to say that the CCP was not contemplating using the virus for biological warfare; (in Taiwan for example) merely, that deliberately infecting the city where the virus was created is immeasurably stupid.
Second: Efforts to control rates of infection are always compared to economic damages vis-a-vis lives saved, as projecting mortality rates in the absence of controls is an intangible. We cannot know what may have been but we do know the obese and elderly are particularly vulnerable to succumbing to the virus. The US. has no shortage of either group to be sure.
No objective?
It increased the debt and dictatorship in Canada.
At the expense of the one thing government’s cherish most…….collecting revenue from citizens.
Somewhat meaningless, since they simply printed money, which in a sense is another form of wealth confiscation and destruction if not taxation. They were not limited in what they spent by any shortage of taxation. I agree, though, that economically the whole reaction was a disaster. The Swedes got it right except they did not do an adequate job of protecting their elderly and infirm. They were greatly criticized but that was pretty much their only mistake in a bold and correct response.
RobR, you say, “First: there’s no reasonable motive for the CCP to deliberately leak the virus in Wuhan to infect the planet.”
I think there are excellent reasons for the CCP to deliberately leak the virus in Wuhan to infect the planet. First, it’s a way of infecting the planet that makes deniability of that intention almost foolproof. Had they released the virus outside China, the chances of them being found out would be much higher and it would be hard to deny intention. In that case, China would be the pariah of the world forever. This way, they can say, “Ooops, it slipped,” and they are fully believable.
Second, releasing it in Wuhan gives them a chance to see how well they can respond if it were a foreign attack on them (or if it were an accidental leak). How quickly can authorities be mobilized? How responsive will the citizenry be? How quickly can researchers develop a vaccine? etc. It could be a perfect wargame.
No one would do that to their own citizens? I’m not so sure. How do we know the Chinese didn’t have a pretty good idea of the virus epidemiology and disease progression of SARS-CoV2 from lab studies of animals with humanized immune systems? With that knowledge they might well decide its lethality was acceptable and yet could be contained in Wuhan through lock down.
Despite these ruminations that there is a reasonable motive for the Chinese to intentionally leak the virus, my own opinion is that it was an accidental leak. But. it’s one the Chinese were likely prepared to respond in a particular way that would maximize the chance of extinguishing it locally while allowing the possibility of it spreading globally.
I think that’s an interesting counter-analysis. I guarantee that it is being considered by intelligence agencies around the world and they will be bending their efforts to determine what really happened. Unfortunately, they won’t tell us. Instead they will distract us with UFO pictures.
I think you’re probably right. But if you were gaming such a move, you would also contemplate the cover up and how to minimize the risk of it destroying your own power. To my thinking that would mean having a vaccine ready before hand or releasing a less virile form locally to provide immunity and produce the illusion that I am sharing the same problem. It is certainly interesting how seriously the Chinese took a virus that is principally dangerous to the old and infirm.
DR. MIKE YEADON EXPOSES POSSIBLE COVID FRAUD
Former Chief Scientific Officer of Pfizer
Video: https://thehighwire.com/videos/episode-219-in-harms-way/ Recorded June 10, 2021
Dr Mike Yeadon starts at 1hour:30:00minutes = 1:30:00
CONTRARY TO GOVERNMENT AND MASS MEDIA PROPAGANDA:
Covid-19 is not significantly more dangerous than a typical seasonal flu.
Covid-19 is typically dangerous only to the very elderly.
The lockdowns were not justified and were harmful.
There are effective treatments for Covid-19, including early treatment with hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
These treatments were vilified, and the failure to use these early treatments cost lives.
PCR test not a good test for diagnosing Covid-19, and gives many false positives since it is being used with too many amplification cycles.
People with no symptoms were not carriers, asymptomatic transmission was another big lie.
The wearing of masks was not necessary or effective.
Transmission of Covid-19 occurred care homes, hospitals and other places where the elderly are confined – not outdoors, etc.
Natural immunity to Covid-19 from those who had the illness is very strong and long-lived.
People who were infected with the Sars-Cov-1 virus seventeen years ago are still immune to Sars-Cov-2 (Covid-19).
The variants are not significantly different from the original Sars-Cov-2 virus – those who had the original Covid-19 illness are immune to the variants.
The Covid-19 “vaccines” were known to cause blood clots, based on previous research.
It is reckless to give the Covid-19 injections to pregnant women.
Polyethylene glycol, which is included in the “vaccines”, causes dangerous anaphylactic shock in some people.
Lying about these facts is widespread in government and the media.
__________
My comments:
There was no significant deadly Covid-19 “epidemic” in the USA, Alberta or Canada to mid-2020, and no justification for the panic, the lockdowns of the workforce and students, and the destruction of our economies – just as I correctly published more than one year ago, on 21&22 March 2020:
21March2020 – Allan MacRae
LET’S CONSIDER AN ALTERNATIVE APPROACH: Isolate people over sixty-five and those with poor immune systems and return to business-as-usual for people under sixty-five. This will allow “herd immunity” to develop much sooner and older people will thus be more protected AND THE ECONOMY WON’T CRASH.
22March2020 – Allan MacRae
This full-lockdown scenario is especially hurting service sector businesses and their minimum-wage employees – young people are telling me they are “financially under the bus”. The young are being destroyed to protect us over-65’s. A far better solution is to get them back to work and let us oldies keep our distance, and get “herd immunity” established ASAP – in months not years. Then we will all be safe again.…
All we really needed to do was over-protect the very elderly and infirm – the high-risk population – which we failed to adequately do. What a debacle! The evidence of serious criminal activity is overwhelming.
_______________________
Also, the average life expectancy of Canadians is lower than the average age of death from Covid-19 in Canada.
Amongst other things, I believe there are several studies that show that vitamin D deficiency is strongly corelated with contracting covid and also with the severity of the disease progression. Where are the public health ads telling people to supplement with a cheap and very safe vitamin? A public health emergency that has cost the world trillions. It boggles the mind!
As a former government I concur.
Yes, it has been ruled out. Here is just one of hundreds of reports, but unless the sellers were able to genetically modify and weaponize a virus in their bats as they sold them, the virus could not have originated there….especially since cases were discovered before any of the bats were sold from that market.
Wuhan wet market was NOT the origin of the coronavirus …https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/wuhan-wet-market-was-not-the-origin-of-the-coronavirus-pandemic/ar-BB14KRSY
But a study of the animals being sold there rules this theory out, after all samples of the animals in the market tested negative for COVID-19, meaning they could not have infected shoppers. ‘It..
Exactly right sir!
A new virus was found in Chinatown in Chicago in January 2020, right around the New Year celebration. Shut down everything for those people, who had nothing to do with it. Everything progressed from there, and it has since blossomed into paranoid insanity and Karens everywhere.
Just think what this might have been like if it was a new variant of one of the various plagues from the MIddle Ages or earlier, but no one could identify it because it was a mutant bug.
There were reports that retroactive tests on respiratory patients in San Francisco from very early in 2020 showed that the WuFlu was present there significantly before it was reported elsewhere and officially. in the U.S. i do not know, however, if these tests were PCR tests and therefore prone to the common issue of false positive results that plagued these tests. This should probably be examined. Kinda like the grassy knoll.
Tiny little flaw in the logic: Only one bat had the Covid-19. It was sold, prepared and eaten, evidence literally consumed by Patient Zero.
Oddgeir
Dr. Li-Meng Yan worked at the Wuhan lab….she fled Cina because she says the virus came from the lab and was designed to infect humans.
Anti_griff,
Dr. Yan was based in Hong Kong.
I read an early report around March or April last year that stated that of the first 43 cases in Wuhan, 13 had no connection whatsoever to the wet market. An epidemiologist stated that this was an immense red flag for the wet market origin hypothesis. I also believe that authorities bulldozed the market without taking any tissue samples.
The reality is that they were doing gain of function research on bats. There was certainly an element of interest on the part of the Chinese military in this work. There was a release of the pathogen ( 3 research workers hospitalized and subsequently kept from speaking). This was probably accidental. Once it was released and the Chinese authorities realized they could not completely contain it, they deliberately allowed infected individuals to travel outside China. This was allowed as a strategic attack, particularly on the Western world. Probably to ensure that China was not at any strategic disadvantage. The cover up of all this was assisted by the main stream media of the world, including many scientific publications. The same people who lie to us every day about Climate Change. I thought through my words here quite carefully. This truth is slowly but steadily coming out.
You are so correct … the warmists are total Poseurs
I posted about the animal origins theory of COVID-19 here over a year ago. Since those early days, a number of studies have come out in Nature (Feb-March-April 2020). SARS 2002 almost certainly came from civits sold in Chinese wet markets, because it was shown there was a 99.8% genetic match between the human and civit coronavirus.
There are now three separate problems with the original SARS -COV2 jumped to humans from pangolins theory pushed by China and Kerry. First, the 2020 Nature studies of corona infected pangolins show only about a 90% genetic overlap, which according to Nature experts is far too little to enable the speculated species jump to humans. Second, the Wuhan wet market blamed by China has no verifiable record of having ever sold pangolins, let alone in late 2019. It was mainly a seafood market. Third, we now know WIoV WAS conducting gain of function (GoF) research, with the same lead researcher whose program at UNC was stopped because deemed too dangerous. And we now know Fauci helped fund that research in 2019 thru the Daszek organization cutout, bypassing NIH ethical review. And we now know it was Daszek who was responsible for the 2020 Lancet letter that said a Wuhan lab leak was just a conspiracy theory.
And we now know China reacted ferociously internally (quarantine and travel lockdown of Wuhan, likely because they knew the results of the GoF research at WIoV), while simultaneously enabling international travel from Wuhan to export the pandemic to places like Seattle and Italy. The same China that Slo Joe says is not a problem.
Not a good look for Fauci and Biden.
In addition to the common sense geolocation of the lab and the outbreak, when the racism trope was rolled out, that really started to make it seem like there was more to the story than the government was letting on.
Glen Greenwald made the following observation/ argument (summarized as best I can remember):
At least the wet market theory was not racist: where unenlightened people buy and sell disease ridden exotic animals to roast over open coals… well, because that is how the Chinese really are. But make the assertion that Chinese scientists or laboratories are somehow not equal to their Western equivalents… well, that is obviously racist. (facepalm)
There is so much absurdity here I don’t know where to begin… but as Dinesh D’Souza pointed out, after retreating from this debacle, the proponents can all found grouped around the climate change camp fire… which ought to be indicative of something.
1] Covid19 => Natural
2] Climate Change => Man Made
3] Lance Armstrong => Natural
4] Gender => Man Made
And it goes on and on like that…
Also throw in those half wits of Simon and Ghalfrunt who come on here from time to time. I remember them calling Trump a Xenophobe when he closed the border with China.
These people are deranged🦄
I wouldn’t say deranged. Devious definitely. Purposeful indubitably. Evil Probably.
Dear Mr. Istvan: Thank you for an excellent summary, brief yet complete. Fauci’s ability to smile and lie and hang on must make Hillary so proud.
100 percent correct. Biden will toss Fauchi under the bus if the press and public sentiment overwhelms his ability to lie and deny. Look how he tossed Harris under the bus by putting here in charge of the border crisis.
She’s avoiding the border like the Black Death, as she doesn’t want the press to follow her down there.
I read that she was ‘asking’ Guatemalans not to cross the border. My immediate thought was, “maybe you could build a wall or something?”
I’m a big Dinesh fan, but this is hardly his most brilliant insight. The obvious reason the same people embrace the wet market theory and climate change is that both are part of the socialist party line. It’s like pointing out that the same people who advocated the dictatorship of the proletariat embraced the latest 5 -year plan. No kidding.
Also in the canon of Socialist truisms; We can spend our way to prosperity, but Capitalism is a zero sum game!
Sure, the virus did not emerge from the lab, but just outside from it. Only in an idiocracy like the one we live in, this could even be considered an argument, without everyone breaking into laughter.
The statement by Dr. Fauci is even more mentally ill. He was so sure the pandemic was “natural”, because previous pandemics were. I mean of course, if that was all the information there is, that would make a reasonable logic. However, there is, actually plenty of. What Dr. Fauci pretends, is that he does not know about it and never heard of it. He would not know there are labs where gain of function experiments (with his funding!) are taking place, he would not know the outbreak occured right where that lab is located, he would not know about the cover up of the CCP (next to his own..). omg..
Fauci became the head of NIAID in 1984 and has kept that position for 36 years, building his kingdom.
He knows all the ins and outs of how to move money around with, in Al Gore speak, “plausible deniability”, and is able to control the narrative coming from HIS organization.
He was born in 1940, is 80 year old, and still wants to maintain the power he has gained over the more than 50 years he has spent in federal government.
He is what is very scary of the huge, unelected bureaucracy. They get their POWER and use it for personal gain or ideological goals. It is obvious to me that his ONLY goal in being the face of the US government for the last more than a year was to obstruct the truth of what HE is responsible for.
I did a search of Fauci and vitamin D last fall and found the FIRST mention of Fauci in connection D was from September of last year. I would guess that 90% of the posters here at WUWT know the importance of D3 for immunological health, those groups that most benefit from taking that supplement, etc. Why would an infectious disease expert NOT mention this for “people of color”, the aged and the obese at the very beginning of this “pandemic”? I think because he had more important things on his mind, like what was discussed in the recently released emails. He had to work on the cover up. He has been very successful for over a year. He made it into a favorable administration, where he will not be charged for any crimes, not even the obvious Senate testimony perjury.
Speaking of the stupidity of anyone fronting the Wuhan “wet market” as the source of the SARS-CoV-2 virus (cause of the COVID-19 pandemic) instead of the most-probable source being the Wuhan Institute of Virology, think about the following simple question:
Why is it that Chinese Communist Party military/WIV (yes, they are very much one and the same)—with more than a year of opportunity to cover-up/misdirect evidence for the origin of SARS-CoV-2 virus and adamantly claiming it arose “spontaneously” in one or more animals (e.g., bats, pangolins)—has failed to date to bring forth a single live animal containing the actual full SARS-CoV-2 virus in any measurable quantity?
Hmmm . . . might it just be that the SARS-CoV-2 virus, having been genetically-engineered via gain-of-function research that likely included humans inserting certain specific amino-acid sequences into common coronavirus “backbone” chromosomes and/or culturing new spike proteins so as to make them both more infectious and more deadly to humans, also had the side effect of making that modified virus (aka, SARS-CoV-2) unable to survive in any other mammals?
Of course, the World Health Organization and the global MSM, by and large, dare not ask such a simple, obvious, but “dangerous”, question.
As follow-up to my above post, I just found this confirmation via Google search:
“While coronaviruses have been known to infect animals for decades, the true intermediate host of the virus has not been identified, with no cases of SARS-CoV-2 in wild animals.” [my underlining emphasis added]
Source: “SARS-CoV-2 Infections in Animals: Reservoirs for Reverse Zoonosis and Models for Study”,
Viruses. 2021 Mar; 13(3): 494. (excerpted from Abstract)
Published online 2021 Mar 17. doi: 10.3390/v13030494
(link: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8002747/ )
— Gordon
Seems COVID-19 may have been circulating in northern Italy unnoticed in July-Aug 2019
In mid 2020, Italian researchers did retrospective tests on blood samples from a lung cancer screening study.
From July 2019 to March 2020, a total of 1114 volunteers were enrolled at the Istituto Nazionale Tumori of Milan.
All the patients were asymptomatic at the time of blood sample collection.
The first positive sample (IgM-positive) was recorded on September 3 2019, in the Veneto region, followed by a case in Emilia Romagna (September 4), a case in Liguria (September 5), two cases in Lombardy (Milano Province; September 9), and one in Lazio (Roma; September 11). By the end of September, 13 of the 23 (56.5%) positive samples were recorded in Lombardy, three in Veneto, two in Piedmont, and one each in Emilia Romagna, Liguria, Lazio, Campania, and Friuli.
anti-SARS-CoV-2 RBD antibody detection according to the time of sample collection in Italy.
In the first 2 months, September–October 2019, 23/162 (14.2%) patients in September and 27/166 (16.3%) in October displayed IgG or IgM antibodies, or both.
The presence of functional anti-SARS-CoV-2 NAbs at the beginning of October 2019 further supports the early unnoticed circulation of the virus in Italy, particularly in Lombardy.
( COVID-19 appeared in Wuhan City, China. at the end of December 2019,)
[ The first surge of positive cases was identified in September–October 2019. Evaluation of anti–SARS-CoV-2 functional NAbs identified positive samples in CPE-based microneutralization tests already collected in October 2019.
Given the temporal delay between infection and antibody synthesis, these results indicate that the virus circulated in Italy well before the detection of the declared index patient in February 2020.
In addition, most of the first antibody-positive individuals lived in regions where the pandemic started. ]
“Our results indicate that SARS-CoV-2 circulated in Italy earlier than the first official COVID-19 cases were diagnosed in Lombardy, even long before the first official reports from the Chinese authorities, casting new light on the onset and spread of the COVID-19 pandemic.”
So, as large numbers of Chinese workers from the Wuhan area work & live in northern Italy. it may have started in Italy & been transported to Wuhan by Chinese workers. (time will tell)
If so, that’ll upset a lot of people who jumped to conclusions of blame & developed lots of conspiracy theory’s, without any real evidence (just like we’ve seen in the climate fiasco).
(Interestingly, although the 1918 ‘Spanish Flu‘ H1N1; pandemic originated in Camp Funston Kansas USA. Some studies suggest that the H1N1 virus of North American origin likely occurred in or around 1915 ) Full text – https://english.turkcebilgi.com/Spanish_flu
Full text –
Unexpected detection of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies in the pre-pandemic period in Italy
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0300891620974755
From a different study https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.13.20129627v1.full-text
SARS-CoV-2 was also detected in Barcelona sewage from March 12th 2019, but nothing found in human samples … yet.
saveeneergy posted: “So, as large numbers of Chinese workers from the Wuhan area work & live in northern Italy. it may have started in Italy & been transported to Wuhan by Chinese workers. (time will tell).”
In response, Gordon Dressler posts: So, as large numbers of Chinese workers from the Wuhan area work & live in northern Italy, it may have started in Wuhan & been transported to northern Italy by Chinese workers (time will tell).
As I said –
Where, it MAY have started in ????… We don’t know…
When, it MAY have started.. We don’t know…
The virus MAY have started in the West & moved East, or in the East & moved West. We don’t know …
We can take wild guesses of time & place & have consensus opinions
but WE DON’T KNOW … yet
only time & data will tell.
saveenergy,
What you say is true, in the limit case: we currently do not know the origin of the SARS-CoV-2 beyond doubt.
However, instead of just making “wild guesses”, we can make informed and educated guesses, based on observations and data.
I will say that to date, we are approaching the point of concluding, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the SARS-CoV-2 virus was engineered in the Wuhan Institute of Virology. A large amount of published scientific papers and letters point to such, a large amount of incidental data points to such, the spread pattern of the virus from Wuhan to the rest of the world points to such, and—last but not least—the actions of the CCP in Wuhan at the time of the outbreak and subsequently China’s attempts to obfuscate/misdirect efforts to investigate the WIV labs, associated lab notes, and lab workers clearly point to the CCP’s knowledge of the outback originating at WIV.
In today’s courts-of-law, you don’t need to find the “smoking gun” to convict a person of murder . . . the preponderance of the evidence will suffice for that.
BTW, “consensus opinions” don’t make squat difference when it comes to assembling objective evidence/facts.
Stop carrying water for the Chinese Covid Party by propagating this ridiculous Italian origins BS!
Nobody on this site dim-witted enough to believe such a fantasy.
A bat virus from bats living in Southern China infects Chinese workers and flies under the radar until they return to Wuhan where GoF research is being conducted on Bat coronavirus’.
What a joke!
Bat Woman lied and millions died!
I know China is now the ‘The Enemy’ & we are told all bad things must emanate from there (it used to be Russia) but that doesn’t make it true.
Every country in the world with the scientific capability is conducting research on bacteria & viruses, why do you think we got ‘the jab’ developed so quickly ?
And why do you think Italians or Spanish would claim to be the source of Covid, if they could just let someone-else take the blame, do you have a neat conspiracy theory for that ?
BTW, did you bother to read the Italian or Spanish studies ?
“I know China is now the ‘The Enemy’ & we are told all bad things must emanate from there (it used to be Russia) but that doesn’t make it true.”
How can you possibly believe this given the HUGE investments that have been undertaken by US media, manufacturing, sports, etc. entities? Do you think these guys would ever undermine their high status by blaming China for anything?
Dude,
Why are your last two comments exactly the same as what you posted on this site three-weeks ago when the criminal lab leak of a bio weapon in Wuhan was being discussed?
Perhaps you need the CCP’s permission to post an original thought.
The Bat Woman lied and millions died……and the CCP must pay!
Rob, don’t be silly, I never indulge in group-think.
As to original thoughts …
Why have YOU repeated the ‘bat woman’ jingle in your last two posts & on May 27 on this site ??
Did you bother to read the Italian or Spanish studies ? or do you get all your info & jingles from twitter & facebook ??
Savevergy,
Obviously, you didn’t deny what essentially amounts to a copy and paste of official party disinformation.
Perhaps the Batwoman lied while under duress, but she still lied.
The Bat Woman lied and millions died!
Savenergy,
You are either a CCP shill, or a research light-weight. I finally spent five-minutes reading the drivel you linked to at sagepubs.
The paper you so eagerly site is under investigation for fraud.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0300891620987756
The Bat Woman lied and millions died!
embrace the word “and”. he’s a CPP shill *and* a research light-weight.
If so, I would wager a bet that there would have been 10x the CoV-2 in Wuhan at the same time, although we will never get to sample that time frame from Wuhan in the same time period in China. So I would call baloney on this idea. Plagues from Central China originated there and spread to to the Middle East and Europe for centuries via the Silk Road either via the sea routes, the southern route or the northern routes. While historic plagues and disease probably flowed both ways, I very much doubt that this SARS-2 modified virus originated in Italy. But the coincidences of the same geography are no different than 2000 years ago.
E2,
You posted: “But the coincidences of the same geography are no different than 2000 years ago.”
I will just note that the ability to travel around the world by jet airplane is considerably different than the limited ability 2000 years ago of traveling by camel, donkey or horseback.
Yup, but whether 600 miles an hour by a jet plane, or 20 miles a day on the Silk Road by camel train, the result was the same in that people also exchanged and passed on the potential virus/bacteria of the day between regions and continents, and is just a matter of time (and numbers) in both cases. This time it was a jet plane spreading to the 4 quarters of the globe from Wuhan, so things spread around the world like a wild fire.
I’ve been a big fan of Dinesh D’Souza for well over a year now.
Thanks for posting this video at WUWT, Charles.
Regards to all,
Bob
Bob,
Good to see you’re still kicking around.
And the same FAKE NEWS Propagandists will be pushing the narrative as hard as they can….
Trump is right again, the world should seek reparations from China.
A pangolin went to Wuhan and all it got me was this lousy Tee-shirt.
A recent article titled ‘Our goal is to build back bigger, greener and better prepared’ by Boris Johnson goes on at length about the international efforts to control the spread of Covid-19 and slips in a bit about the education of girls (Greta Thunberg?) but nowhere explains what bearing all that has on ‘carbon [CO2] emissions’ or ‘limiting the rise in global temperatures to 1.5 degrees [C]’.
And conservatives (not just the British Conservative Party) wonder why they lose even when they win.
Conservatives:New_York_Generals::Progressives:Harlem_Globtrotters
As a scientist I visited Wuhan many years ago and my room was not far from where the laboratory is now located. The wet markets were in full swing when I was there.
Scientists in China were poorly rewarded when I visited and often required additional income support if they had families to support. Where laboratory ‘left overs’ such as used equipment and lab clothing were discarded it was common practice for said scientists to sell the ‘used’ equipment to supplement their income.
It is not a silly idea to assume that after tests the animals used for COVID experiments were sold to nearby wet markets for additional income.
Civilian MD. John Brownstein uncovered the truth over a year ago as portrayed in this ABC news segment. Essentially, Brownstein studied commercial satellite pics on a y over y basis and discovered a doubling of hospital traffic three-months before the CCP (Chinese Covid Party) admitted to a problem.
The period in question also jives with the period when three lab workers were admitted to a military hospital, and the subsequent two-week cessation of cell phone activity inside the WIV. Additionally, the WIV removed all web site data in the month of September 2019.
The good DR. also noted a large spike in searches for symptoms related to the Wuhan virus on China’s state sponsored search engine.
DJT, apparently latched on to the report as proof that the VID is man made. Subsequently, Brownstein, is clearly afflicted with Trump Derrangement syndrome when he reaches the inexplicable conclusion that the Whuhan virus flew under local medical authority radar due to under funding.
Are you fing kidding me. Are we to believe that Wuhan medical staff remained oblivious to a doubling of traffic with personnel afflicted with respiratory illness. Nobody is that stupid; most especially Doctors. Let’s not forget the mysterious deaths a disappearances of primary whistle blowers.
Question one: Why didn’t more outlets pick up on this?
Question two: If an MD can count cars using commercial satellites, do you think the CIA and DIA performed a similar comparison using sophisticated spy satellites?
Question three: if said study was performed, were the findings overruled by Fauci’s intractable position on zoonotic transfer?
Question four: Could the US have withheld strong suspicions of a lab leak of a genetically engineered virus to prevent mass panic? Recall the panic that ensued during the War of the Worlds radio broadcast.
The fact the the US and China cooperated on this gain of function research suggests that the covert relationship is much different from the overt relationship. Makes you wonder how much of the public confrontations are just theater.
I’m thinking about all the technologic and economic assistance to the USSR during the Cold War documented by Antony Sutton.
Its seems likely that Fauci and Daszak were acting in good faith with the WIV in partially funding GoF research.
Subsequently, (more supposition) the PLA muscled in when they realized the potential of genetically modified coronavirus’ as biological warfare agents.
I was struck with how forceful the denial was – methinks they doth protest too much.
‘Wet Market’ theory is pure childishness and rascism
Its exactly the sorts of charges levelled by one tribe of children against another when its found that one tribe prefers one food and another tribe prefers different food.
Just look at the English vs French with their Roz-Biv vs Frogs Legs,
even before we get into regional stuff like Garlic, Veal, Haggis, Black Pudding, Foie Gras, Octopus/Squid
See it rearing up again with UK sausages vs EU sausages. Here
SARS is very likely to have originated in a Chinese market: the genome of that virus shows it came from an animal host via intermediate species to humans.
so a similar path for covid is absolutely possible.
The jury is still out on this one.
It’s taken only a year for “The virus is natural” to become “The virus is probably man made”. How long will it take for “Climate change is man made” to become “Climate change is probably natural”?
It took a lot of people having their lives ruined to change the paradigm on COVID-19. Hopefully, it won’t require a similar amount of suffering to change the paradigm on CAGW.
Can somebody explain to me why the USA would choose to pay money to an aggressive totalitarian state, that has reverted to genocide at least twice and invaded one country recently, to help them create bioweapons?
When one lie doesn’t work, just tell another lie.
How much have Insurance Companies lost in claims because of covid-19 in the last 18 months? I would suggest it runs into many Billions of pounds. If it is proven/highly likely that GoF experiments were responsible with, possibly, Faucci and Daszak behind the Wuhan lab trials then surely these Insurers will want their pound of flesh(?) If Faucci was involved will, then, the USA be dragged into any litigation?
Perhaps, but the courts often assign degrees of culpability to defendants in tort actions.
Methinks, actual US and French Investments in the WIV do not bulk large relative to China’s internal funding. Furthermore, there is a strong argument for negligence in both causing the leak and the subsequent cover up leading to a pandemic.
We paid for.a portion of the car, but the idiots doing the driving were responsible for the hit and run.
If covid was natural… . If Covid was natural there would be a history of prior covid like infection in humans.
The Covid like virus would have been infecting people for decades to gain (biologically evolved from repeat infections) the ability to be the most transmittable virus ever known, in addition to covid being a sneaky deadly virus. Covid causes novel features never seen before. See links below.
The point is not only how deadly covid was. Ebola was more deadly. Ebola did not however have the biochemical machinery and ‘evolved knowledge to defeat the general human immune system to spread rapidly.
Covid infects humans using its spike molecules. The covid spike has never been seen before in nature. The covid spike also has the biochemical connection that enables covid to pass through the brain blood barrier to cause brain damage. The ability to pass the blood brain barrier is rare in viruses.
The covid spike also has the ability to anesthetize cells. This covid feature has never been seen before in nature. This covid novel feature enables covid to stop the human cell generated pain signal. Inhibiting the pain signal makes people unaware that they are sick with covid and spreading the virus.
Covid’s novel never before seen in nature ability to stop pain signal that is generated during a virus attack is a key reason why covid is so contagious.
https://www.newsmax.com/health/headline/covid-19-pain-killer-pandemic/2020/10/06/id/990680/
Can COVID-19 kill pain? That is the possibility raised by University of Arizona researchers who found SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, might function as a pain killer.
If that theory proves to be true, it might be one of the reasons so many infected people walk around unaware they have the disease.
Why did covid get all of the deadly virus machinery from a host of viruses? When did all of the covid virus parts get together and when did they all join to covid spike?
Covid has the biological machinery and the evolved knowledge of the human immune system.
Covid got the evolved ‘knowledge’ to defeat the human immune system. …. By infecting lab animals which have been genetically modified to replicate the human system.
We know this statement is correct because the alternative natural infection of humans by covid would have left evidence. There is zero evidence of covid infecting people prior to Chinese November, 2019 infections.
Gain of function ‘research’ connecting pieces of viruses together and then splicing the spike molecule to covid. And then mutating the new virus by infecting specialized lab animals to ‘teach’ the covid spike how to defeat the human immune system.
The explanation/’theory’ that covid was made in a lab infections explains how covid is so sneaky dangerous and super infectious when covid infected patient zero, 1, 2, 3…. And so on in China.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/physician-scientist-steven-quay-provides-open-letter-response-to-who-report-five-undisputed-facts-support-the-laboratory-origin-of-the-covid-virus-301258582.html
The five undisputed facts are:
· COVID-19 wasn’t smoldering in the community before the epidemic broke out, as was observed with previous coronavirus epidemics.
· Despite an intense search, neither the COVID virus, nor any close relative, has yet been found in nature, unlike prior natural zoonoses. The closest viral relative is from the laboratories of the Wuhan Institute of Virology, near the epicenter of the first cases.
· The COVID virus had little genetic diversity at the outset, unlike prior natural zoonoses. It was genetically pure, like the man-made vaccines being rolled out.
· The COVID virus’s powerful infectious trigger isn’t found anywhere in its related viral group in nature but has been repeatedly inserted into viruses by laboratory scientists, including at the Wuhan Institute of Virology.
·The virus was highly adapted for infection of people from the start, unlike prior natural zoonoses. Growing viruses in humanized mice is a common technique to hone their lethal abilities.
Logically covid did not come from nature it came from a lab.
https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2021/06/09/dr-quay-analysis-gets-into-the-one-in-a-billion-chance-covid-came-from-nature-no-known-facts-similiar-to-prior-natural-diseases/
“Quay said, “[T]here are just so many signatures and so many events that are consistent with a lab leak of weeks before the lab leak.
The Wuhan lab had only known copy of the bat virus
There’s literally no fact that is of — that we know of that is similar to a previous natural zoonosis.
So, my analysis gets into the one in a billion chance here that this could have come from nature. So, when something doesn’t come from nature, and the alternative is the lab leak, you have to go with that.”
He later added, “What I’ve done is analyze what’s called circumstantial evidence to come to the conclusion that, beyond a reasonable doubt, it came from a laboratory.”
Origin of Covid — Following the Clues
https://nicholaswade.medium.com/origin-of-covid-following-the-clues-6f03564c038
Did people or nature open Pandora’s box at Wuhan?
Who the heck is this fellow? He certainly likes the sound of his own voice. And he certainly has a very high opinion of his own opinions. But is there any substance behind his waffle? For instance is there any evidence provided that Pope Francis endorses the ‘wet market theory’? Nope. But does that stop him prattling on about something else Pope Francis said? Nope. I did an internet search on Pope Francis and wet market theory and the only relevant link was to this video.
There is not really much of a wet market theory is there, only the earliest traced outbreak location.
Jon Stewart On Vaccine Science And The Wuhan Lab Theory