Guardian: “The Climate Movement Must do More to Mobilise Older People”

Guest essay by Eric Worrall

Because “Older people can be wealthy”.

Why the climate movement must do more to mobilise older people

June 3, 2021 2.34am AEST

Aled Jones Professor & Director, Global Sustainability Institute, Anglia Ruskin University
Bradley Hiller Visiting Fellow, Global Sustainability Institute, Anglia Ruskin University

Some say age is only a number. Others associate age with wisdom. Or perhaps it is a state of mind. Whatever it is, age is a factor in climate progress, and 2021’s renewed climate momentum must mobilise the oft-overlooked elderly demographic.

To date, the global climate movement has engaged young people en masse. Pre-COVID, the world witnessed a swathe of student-led climate protests, leading to broader public debate and increased youth representation in key international forums.

Elderly people are relatively invisible in climate discussions compared to the youth demographic, yet are arguably the most critical for broader climate action. Here are five reasons to broaden the youthful momentum to engage and empower the elderly:

5. Older people can be wealthy

The elderly collectively control an increasing share of global wealth, spending and assets. For example, the 55-and-over population in the US already spends twice as much as the much-targeted millennial market. By 2030, it is estimated that just 11% of investable assets in the US will be held by people younger than 45. Yet despite holding most shareholder voting rights, older investors tend to consider environmental, social and governance (ESG) factors less strongly than younger investors.

Read more: https://theconversation.com/why-the-climate-movement-must-do-more-to-mobilise-older-people-161732

Top marks for honesty, at least about wanting old people to contribute more towards the cause.

So why are old people so disengaged? Plenty of old folk have children and grandchildren they love, so the suggestion I have seen that old people simply don’t care doesn’t wash. Old people are usually (though not always) very well informed, so it is unlikely they are unfamiliar with climate crisis claims.

One possible explanation, is age gives old people the experience and perspective to realise the climate crisis narrative is a pile of bull pucky.

Everyone over 50 remembers the Global Cooling crisis, because we all watched the wildly popular “In Search of” documentary on the coming ice age.

I remember watching “In Search Of … The Coming Ice Age” as a kid. Everyone believed the documentary, because the presenter was actor Leonard Nimoy, who played Dr. Spock in the original Star Trek series. The ice age documentary also featured an impressive lineup of scientists, including Chester Langway, James Hayes, Gifford Miller (who described how the descent into the next ice age started 3000 years ago), and Stephen Schneider, who speculated about using nuclear energy to melt the ice caps, to halt the big freeze.

Stephen Schneider hilariously backflipped a few years after the documentary, and started pushing global warming theories with as much sincerity as he previously pushed the global cooling scare.

My point is, at the time we all believed Nimoy’s flick, just like young people today believe all the global warming nonsense they have been force fed, because young people just aren’t old enough yet to have personally witnessed a major settled science backflip. After you see a few abrupt shifts in direction (fat good? fat bad? Pritikin diet? Atkins Diet?), often with the same people pushing the new line with just as much sincerity as they previously pushed the opposite position, you would have to be stupid not to wonder at least a bit whether the so called experts were making it up as they go.

But it seems most people have to witness this kind of shameless scientific backflip for themselves, to lose their automatic faith in authority.

Thankfully we have had a recent series of in my opinion shameless public scientific backflips, which with any luck will do lasting damage to the climate crisis narrative.

Dr. Fauci’s public backflips on Covid (lab leak? natural? kids need masks? kids don’t need masks?) may have done more long term damage to young people’s willingness to accept scientific authority at face value, than anything I have ever written.

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On the outer Barcoo
June 6, 2021 10:08 am

Some folk equate age with wisdom; others with stupidity. The same applies to education.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  On the outer Barcoo
June 6, 2021 3:33 pm

The ones who equate age with stupidity aren’t old enough to have the wisdom to see the truth.

When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.” — Mark Twain

Last edited 8 days ago by Trying to Play Nice
Ben Vorlich
Reply to  Trying to Play Nice
June 7, 2021 4:42 am

One of my favourite quotes to my grandchildren who get indoctrinated on a daily basis

fretslider
June 6, 2021 10:09 am

Kids have no experience, how could they ?

philincalifornia
Reply to  fretslider
June 6, 2021 3:19 pm

They still know everything though.

…… except how to clean up their rooms.

James B.
Reply to  fretslider
June 6, 2021 8:33 pm

To the current generation that thinks they are smarter than old people, let me remind you that 50 years ago the manual for an automobile had steps for adjusting the engines valves. Now, the manual for an automobile warns the owner to not drink the battery acid. The current generation is a pandemic of the Dunning-Kruger syndrome: they are too stupid to evaluate their own competence.

D Boss
Reply to  James B.
June 7, 2021 5:32 am

Sad confirmation of James B’s reminder: working as an automotive tech, semi retired highly skilled at many things, including gear head – I was rebuilding a 4 banger Honda engine due to head gasket failure. We sent the head to a professional head rebuilder – it came back and I did the tedious process of installing it with the new gasket, etc, carefully torquing all the bolts… after installing the cams and rockers, then I went to lash the valves and I could not get them into spec. I checked the valve stem lengths and lo and behold, some young kid at the rebuild place had mixed up the intake vs exhaust valves! (normally this is impossible as exhaust valves are way larger, but this stupid Honda had them almost the same diameter, but different stem lengths).

So I wasted a couple days to remove the head again and sending it back to the rebuilder. Note the kid making the mistake was fired and we got the rebuilder to do the whole job for free….

Another quick one – we had an 1957 Crown Vic, and needed to replace the choke cable. So I went to an auto parts store to try to find one, say for a lawnmower or the like which would work. The kid working there replied to my asking “do you have any choke cables?” – he said with a blank stare “what’s a choke?”

One more – a middle aged lady brought her car in saying a headlight was not working. I asked her whether it was low or high beam… she said “what’s a high beam?” She was astonished when I showed her how to actuate high vs low beam. (I said to self “how the frack can you obtain a driver’s license and not know what high beam headlamps are?)

This kind of thing is evident everywhere these days – and it’s both sad and alarming. We are going to revert to hunter-gatherers if we continue to loose skill, knowledge and wisdom at the rates that are occurring with our so called educational system!

TonyG
Reply to  D Boss
June 7, 2021 9:18 am

“We are going to revert to hunter-gatherers…”

Given the competence on display, they’ll end up starving.

bonbon
Reply to  James B.
June 7, 2021 6:01 am

Not quite. Todays cars have so much computer stuff, the kids feel right at home. Even their Androids can scan any car. A BMW can have more than 19 computer units. Engine timing today is beautifully explained.
For the kids it is a computer game, that is until they will not start with empty tank.

Maybe there is room in the market for a first-person mechanic, instead of shooter?

Tesla’s have so much electric energy stored, there are warnings not to tamper, it has become too dangerous, not to mention the autonomous drive units.

D Boss
Reply to  bonbon
June 8, 2021 4:23 am

bonbon: I disagree. Yes modern cars have multiple computer modules that talk to each other over a common buss, but kids or young adults haven’t a clue how a really complex “system” works. Our shop services foreign cars almost exclusively, Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, VW, Bentley, Maserati, etc. Also Toyota, Lexus, and Honda. Yes the German cars have one or two dozen computer modules – but the talking apes screw that up wildly too…

One customer carried open 5 gallon water containers in the back of a Mercedes SUV, and they spilled – and duh, all the computer modules are under the carpet – that stupid attempt to save some money buying water cost $3500 ’cause 4 modules got shorted and fried!

Then you have the idiots who think they are computer smart – and obtain the “trouble codes” from the OBD port. They think they know what is wrong when they get a misfire on cylinder 3, and a low reading on O2 sensor on bank 1 position 2. The problem is they know computers but have no clue what makes an engine work – and a group of trouble codes can have a dozen causes which you need to understand to diagnose a problem.

So is it a bad spark plug, or a failed ignition coil, or a dirty fuel injector, or is the misfire because you have a leaking valve cover gasket and the spark plug/coil connection is oil fouled, or is it a vacuum leak after the mass air flow sensor, causing a lean mixture, etc, etc, etc. Or is is the variable valve timing system – which could be a mechanical, hydraulic or electronic issue? Is it just water accumulated in the fuel? Just because some computer nerd can read trouble codes, doesn’t mean they understand how modern engines work – there’s no simple mechanics anymore, it is more like a systems engineer.

I can’t tell you how many times some smart a** comes in and tells us what’s wrong because they have obtain the “trouble codes” and looked it up on Google – if he/she is an arrogant idiot and refuses to let us properly diagnose – we gladly take their money and replace what they think is wrong. Which ends up costing them more when we do find the real problem…

No this information/computer age is like my previous post elsewhere – it’s like giving a troupe of baboons a case of loaded and cocked AK-47’s.

Electrics and hybrids – are a nightmare of stupid engineering too. Actually stupid engineering is evident even in the highly reputable ICE makers – far too many examples of really dumb asked engineering – from my perspective are because they take kids out of school (university) who sit at a CAD station and say – oh that would be cool, and do it without understanding how everything interacts. We are loosing the humongous knowledge base that was handed down via a more “apprenticeship” basis. it used to be you did not get to design cars or their systems unless you had actually worked on the factory or shop floor in addition to your schooling.

Some BMW’s are superb, and other models are a nightmare and failure prone. You often say to yourself ” is this designed by the same car maker” – some are really fine, others are obviously designed by committee. You know what you get when you design a horse by committee? A camel!

Joseph Zorzin
June 6, 2021 10:09 am

“Elderly people are relatively invisible in climate discussions compared to the youth demographic..” The other way around in this blog. The youngsters wouldn’t be able to keep up with the quick elderly wits present here.

Bryan A
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
June 6, 2021 3:55 pm

It would seem to me that…
Given that 97% of climate scientists agree (they constantly say so)
And that the majority of people believe it is so (again they constantly say so)
“They” (true believers) must number in the Billions…
All they need to do is to Stop using fossil sourced energy and Petrochemical derived products.

Like…

Products made from petrochemicals include such items as plastics, soaps and detergents, solvents, drugs, fertilizers, pesticides, explosives, synthetic fibres and rubbers, paints, epoxy resins, and flooring and insulating materials. Petrochemicals are found in products as diverse as aspirin, luggage, boats, automobiles, aircraft, polyester clothes, and recording discs and tapes.

Surely this would drive down the price of Oil and Coal to the point exploration is unprofitable.
All they must do is Give Up their hypocrisy and take the lead in personal decarbonization.
No legislation needed.
Unless of course they fear there aren’t Billions who believe as they do.

/sarc

Last edited 8 days ago by Bryan A
hiskorr
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
June 7, 2021 5:16 am

Aside from a personal disinterest in what the post-2100 earth will be like, we elders are not in any way dependent on “settled science” grants nor “cancel culture” approval for our livelihood.

Solar Mutant Ninjaneer
June 6, 2021 10:10 am

Maybe its because when we were young we were taught critical thinking?

I recall a bumper sticker in the 1970s that said “Question Authority.” Now it is “Follow the Science” – whatever that means.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Solar Mutant Ninjaneer
June 6, 2021 10:22 am

I blame the school system. They are indoctrinating the children with Leftwing insanity, not teaching them anything useful.

Bill Powers
Reply to  Tom Abbott
June 6, 2021 12:59 pm

Old folk haven’t been subjected to post 1990 public school indoctrination and college Social Justice recruitment. Bottom line old f@rts are capable of reasoning and rational thought without getting their feelings hurt and have decades more experience which fine tunes their BS detectors.

The worldwide bureaucracy has elevated this Post-Modern insanity to an art form where white is black, boys are girls and the world will end in 3,2,1…wait don’t forget to add 12 to 100 years, whichever comes last. todays public school graduates are sorely tested on this simple problem. But rest assured that if they live longer than 100 years past today that the authorities will extend the end of days accordingly.

Txjwalker1
Reply to  Bill Powers
June 6, 2021 1:26 pm

Bottom line… we can tell when something isn’t true

observa
Reply to  Bill Powers
June 7, 2021 9:06 am

Boys are girls and the gender fluidity thing? Well not quite as I passed the local private school last week at lunchtime. I’m held up by senior boys with the lollipop signs to allow some stragglers to cross the crossing from the school proper to the copious well manicured oval grounds opposite. Now bear in mind this was a private boys school since inception and amalgamated with the girls of the same religion recently.

The upshot of all this blended continuum of alphabet soup as I cast an eye on the oval? There were all the girls seated in various size circles on the lawn at one end of the oval gasbagging intently while the boys were all standing horsing around in groups or running around kicking the footy or playing soccer etc and taking up the other 3/4 of the grounds. Lefty educators have a bit more work on their hands it seems.

observa
Reply to  observa
June 7, 2021 9:16 am

I should add this was now the Senior coed HS with Years 10-12 apparently after blending.

Ed Zuiderwijk
Reply to  Solar Mutant Ninjaneer
June 6, 2021 11:06 am

‘Follow the science’ means ‘believe the green fairytales’.

n.n
Reply to  Ed Zuiderwijk
June 6, 2021 11:51 am

Yes, we cannot discount the diverse green links. However, the first-order order forcing of [catastrophic] [anthropogenic] political, social, and economic climate change is clearly secular, perhaps religious (i.e. behavioral), not limited to green[backs] (e.g. redistributive change) and control (e.g. retributive change). That said, think green, emit.

n.n
Reply to  Solar Mutant Ninjaneer
June 6, 2021 11:40 am

Cargo cult or intuitive science.
Indulgences for sale to the good grannies. Redistributive, per chance retributive, change for those who deny the consensus. Take a knee, beg, good girl, boy, whatever.

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  Solar Mutant Ninjaneer
June 6, 2021 1:28 pm

Of course Socrates also said “question authority” and look where that got him!

philincalifornia
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
June 6, 2021 3:43 pm

If I got a bumper sticker that said “Don’t question authority” and drove around the Berkeley campus, I don’t think they would get it.

Tom
Reply to  Solar Mutant Ninjaneer
June 6, 2021 5:27 pm

Climate alarmist just do not understand history — it appears too complicated and stressful for them to read a history book: Without a willingness to learn they are unemployable and a liability to the nation.

Our schoolteacher often said “You can only educate a willing mind — you can never teach a fool”.

Richard (the cynical one)
June 6, 2021 10:15 am

At the ripe young age of 70, I find increasing resistance to being mobilized. Funny thing, that, having an increasingly sensitive BS meter, and far less patience for stupidity, opportunities abound to unleash scathing torrents on arrogant ‘higher purpose’ would be manipulators. ‘Mobilized’, indeed!

Hasbeen
Reply to  Richard (the cynical one)
June 7, 2021 4:15 am

The global warming crowd had better be a bit careful trying mobilise older people. Most don’t like bullsh1t, having seen too much in their long years. They can be slow to anger, but once roused it is likely to be greater & more sustained than that of kids.

Bruce Cobb
June 6, 2021 10:15 am

“Okay, Boomer”.

Doug Huffman
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
June 6, 2021 12:11 pm

Otay, Zoomer.

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  Doug Huffman
June 6, 2021 1:30 pm

I think Bruce forgot the sarcasm sign.

iflyjetzzz
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
June 6, 2021 5:10 pm

LOL! Nice sarcasm.

My response (choose any you like)
OK mental illness; I mean millennial.
That’s impressive coming from the generation that eats Tide Pods and can’t do taxes.
I’m booming in the bank; how about you?
I thought you were supposed to be the tolerant generation.
The jerk store called. They’re all out of you.

I stole those responses from here:
15 of the Best Comebacks when Someone Says “Ok Boomer” – Tosaylib

Tom
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
June 6, 2021 5:29 pm

Ok DOOMER

Tom Abbott
June 6, 2021 10:17 am

From the article: “Stephen Schneider hilariously backflipped a few years after the documentary, and started pushing global warming theories with as much sincerity as he previously pushed the global cooling scare.”

He was just following the temperature trend. Before long, he may be getting back onboard that Global Cooling train.

n.n
Reply to  Tom Abbott
June 6, 2021 11:59 am

Maybe green and trapped in a circulation model with inadequate design and insufficient leverage. Maybe Green with “benefits” (e.g. secular lucre including
green[backs]).

Alfred Garrett
Reply to  Tom Abbott
June 6, 2021 12:54 pm

Schneider died in 2010.

philincalifornia
Reply to  Alfred Garrett
June 6, 2021 3:30 pm

That was a bullet that missed us, but Ehrlich’s still going strong, and still teaching fantasy extinction sh!te.

If only the use of baseball bats was legal. Problem solved.

John Adams
Reply to  philincalifornia
June 6, 2021 5:11 pm

Tenure.

Capitalist-Dad
June 6, 2021 10:19 am

All this tells me is older people are more likely to see through the global cooling (oops, I mean) global warming (oops, make that) climate change scam. When “the science” changes the name every time reality departs from its computer modeling, and when “the science” uses propaganda and intimidation tactics against detractors, it’s definitely time not to blindly follow “the science.”

gringojay
Reply to  Capitalist-Dad
June 6, 2021 11:31 am

What’s that you say – you don’t believe in science ? Why every good citizen must – except apparently that thing about x and y chromosomes.

7CA63D12-5169-48EA-BE08-6F34F0D9CB04.jpeg
Last edited 8 days ago by gringojay
Tom Abbott
Reply to  gringojay
June 6, 2021 11:41 am

It seems that Twitter censored the leader of Nigeria for something he said, and the Nigerian leader turned around and banned Twiitter from the whole country.

Now, Twitter came out yesterday and said freedom of speech was a human right!, complaining that Nigeria should not have cut them off.

Oh, the irony!

PaulH
Reply to  Tom Abbott
June 6, 2021 1:52 pm

Nigeria is a private country. If Twitter doesn’t like Nigeria’s rules, they can create their own Nigeria.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  Tom Abbott
June 6, 2021 3:51 pm

I’m sure the Twits at Twitter don’t even realize how stupid they look.

n.n
Reply to  Capitalist-Dad
June 6, 2021 12:05 pm

Yes, that’s clear evidence that you may be in a cargo cult, a cult with secular “benefits”, occupation, and threat of cancellation.

Dave Fair
Reply to  Capitalist-Dad
June 6, 2021 2:45 pm

Look, guys. At 72 I know a lot of stupid old folks. If you have ever spent any time around old U.S. Veterans, you know what I mean (I volunteered at the local VA hospital). Spend a little time around an old folk’s (females) home and old vets and you will appreciate what I am trying to get across … cognitive decline is real among the surviving females and the old vets are mostly deranged and full of B.S.

BTW, I still have an IQ above 150. It comes from reading alot and knowing the definition of alot of words. But I can’t remember what my wife said 5 minutes ago. Selective intelligence?

June 6, 2021 10:20 am

Frequent mistake: The character in Star Trek is Mister Spock, the famous paediatrician is Dr. Spock.

Editor
Reply to  Hans Erren
June 6, 2021 11:06 am

What? They’re not the same guy ?!?

No wonder my kids turned out like they did .
. . .

saveenergy
Reply to  Kip Hansen
June 6, 2021 5:50 pm

With big ears !

Bryan A
Reply to  saveenergy
June 6, 2021 8:32 pm

you got the point

Gregory Woods
June 6, 2021 10:20 am

I am 73 years old, and have enough wisdom not to taste the BS that Alarmists (Warmunists?) are passing around….

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Gregory Woods
June 6, 2021 11:45 am

I’ve been listening to these unsubstantiated human-caused climate change claims since the 1970’s. None of their predictions, whether on the Global Cooling side, or the Global Warming side, have come to pass, so I am even more inclined to scoff at their claims now than when I was younger, since I have long experience with their failed claims.

Shoki Kaneda
June 6, 2021 10:27 am

People who accumulate wealth generally do so because they make good choices. Supporting fraudulent propaganda is not a good choice.

Doug Huffman
Reply to  Shoki Kaneda
June 6, 2021 12:13 pm

Age correlates well with wealth and intelligence.

Mr.
Reply to  Shoki Kaneda
June 6, 2021 5:24 pm

Well, we made bad choices too.
But we’ve had enough years to make a few more good choices to offset the bad choices.
And how do we know what good or bad choices look like?
EXPERIENCE.

WR2
Reply to  Shoki Kaneda
June 6, 2021 10:01 pm

Plenty of wealthy crony capitalists are making money off of climate change. Unfortunately it’s a less than zero sum game.

Rud Istvan
June 6, 2021 10:29 am

More woolly UK academic ‘thinking’. US older folks were taught critical thinking. We also have more time to study ‘ESG’ issues and learn the facts, rather than follow the crowd’s ‘popular delusions’. If we have more wealth, it is because we earned it—and don’t want it frittered away on ‘ESG’

Robert Cherba
June 6, 2021 10:33 am

Old folks like me (84+++) have also lived through several numerous predictions of doom and “Chicken Liken the sky is falling” moments foreseen by prominent “scientists” and politicians (e.g. Algore) every few years. We’re going to starve to death; drown (sea level rise or floods); freeze; die from the heat; or all die from heat-caused diseases, tornadoes, and hurricanes. Then there have been the “fringe” scientists predicting CO2 will cause more volcanic eruptions and earthquakes, and kill all the ocean life. (Just like it did in the Cambrian period, I suppose.)

Back in the day when I was gainfully employed, one of my responsibilities was generating five-year budget forecasts for the nuclear power department. After a year or two of doing this, I purchased a crystal ball for my desk so visitors could see how I developed my forecasts. The climate emergency (or whatever it’s called this week) scientists and politicians like AOC have just as much forecast credibility as I did with my budget crystal ball.

Dave Fair
Reply to  Robert Cherba
June 6, 2021 2:51 pm

Been there, done that.

Jim Whelan
Reply to  Robert Cherba
June 6, 2021 4:14 pm

Seen on a T-shirt: “We do precision guess work based on unreliable data provided by those with questionable knowledge.”

I do like the choice of the word “precision” since precision means getting the same result and doesn’t mean accurate or close to the actual value.

Last edited 8 days ago by Jim Whelan
Andy Espersen
June 6, 2021 10:44 am

Certainly : Age (I am 86) gives the experience and perspective to realise that the “climate crisis narrative is a pile of bull pucky” . It also brings an accepting, philosophical attitude to life, death and danger which simply makes it impossible to ever panic about “cities flooding”, or “terrible droughts” (or for that matter dying from an ordinary, flu-like illness).

Dave Fair
Reply to  Andy Espersen
June 6, 2021 2:54 pm

I, too, as I approach the end of my life (go for 100!) realize that most of man’s obsessions are transitory.

Editor
June 6, 2021 11:02 am

Older people will not climb on the Climate Emergency Bandwagon — they have seen far too many wagons pass by only to be abandon down the block when a “new, improved, more exciting” wagon comes along.

We older folks (at least those of us still in possession of our memories) are not so easily fooled.

Dave Fair
Reply to  Kip Hansen
June 6, 2021 2:54 pm

An important caveat.

June 6, 2021 11:18 am

Older people are often wiser and more likely to be able to think for themselves, especially those who have had a career in engineering and/or science. Just to be clear, engineering is applied science. while pure science doesn’t necessarily include the need to understand how to apply it.

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  co2isnotevil
June 6, 2021 1:39 pm

“Just to be clear, engineering is applied science.” That reminds me that an architect friend told me that often in the ancient world- when an arch was being constructed and it was time to install the lintel at the top/middle- the architect who designed it was required to stand under it- if it was poorly designed, he’d be the first to know. I suspect engineers are also under pressure to get it right, whatever they’re working on – unlike “scientists” like Mickey Mann. He won’t suffer any consequences when his prophecies are proven wrong by thermometers – by then he’ll be enjoying his lucrative pension.

Last edited 8 days ago by Joseph Zorzin
Willem69
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
June 7, 2021 4:43 am

Science is not useful until you can apply it to something!

hiskorr
Reply to  Willem69
June 7, 2021 5:38 am

Maybe not useful, but often interesting– which is why I enjoy the frequent WUWT articles on astrophysics.

Reply to  co2isnotevil
June 6, 2021 11:05 pm

engineering is not applied science, science is explanations for engineering. We were
rubbing sticks together to make fire long before a scholar dreamed up a plausible explanation for why it worked

Reply to  Leo Smith
June 8, 2021 7:30 am

Leo,

The science and math describing whatever it is you’re engineering must always come first. Without this understanding, you waste time engineering garbage like perpetual motion machines called climate models. The science related to rubbing two stick together was the observation that friction causes heat and that was plausible enough.

Why are climate models perpetual motion machines you ask? It’s simple. For climate models to produce enough warming, they need to create energy out of thin air in order to replace the increased emissions from the exaggerated surface temperature increase. The requirement that all Joules from increased surface emissions recirculate indefinitely between the atmosphere and surface is the very definition of perpetual motion since the only identifiable origin of the work (Joules) required to recirculate all of this extra energy is the assumed power supply in the feedback model that doesn’t actually exist.

mike macray
Reply to  co2isnotevil
June 7, 2021 9:37 am

I am searching for a successful society governed by a council of youngers, ever, anywhere.
Any suggestions?
cheers
Mike

n.n
June 6, 2021 11:33 am

This is an outreach for redistributive change to viable (i.e. living) grannies, survivors of the progressive planned parent/hood pandemic fiasco (e.g. delayed/denied treatments, equitable and inclusive integration of active cases, social contagion).

Alba
June 6, 2021 11:41 am

I’m 73. My generation were able to go through education without being submitted to climate alarmism propaganda. On the other hand one of my grandsons is getting that right now. Incidentally I was a teacher and taught critical thinking. I don’t know I’d be allowed to now. Not on certain issues, anyway.

dodgy geezer
June 6, 2021 12:01 pm

I’m old. I want to be warm.

Dave Fair
Reply to  dodgy geezer
June 6, 2021 2:56 pm

Pragmatism trumps ideology.

Elle Webber
June 6, 2021 12:07 pm

Oh give me a break! I didn’t believe the Climate Catastrophe Religion back 20 years ago (when I was middle-aged) either. When my daughter came home from school with science graphs that “proved” torrid warming, I had a look and said “They erased the Medieval Warm Period. If so-called experts have to lie to scare you, they don’t have a case. Life lesson.” I’ve yet to see actual evidence backing up climate doom, but I’ve seen plenty to back the theory that totalitarianism, abject poverty, and depopulation is the actual goal here.

Dave Fair
Reply to  Eric Worrall
June 6, 2021 3:04 pm

Thanks, Eric, but I don’t watch old (much less new) propaganda.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  Eric Worrall
June 6, 2021 3:58 pm

Leonard Nimoy was sort of the Bill Nye of the Boomer era without the bow tie and propaganda.

Dave Fair
Reply to  Elle Webber
June 6, 2021 3:03 pm

My youngest daughter is much smarter than I (IQ > 150) and she saw through the propaganda as early as grade school. You can’t imagine the times my wife and I were compelled to come into the administrative offices to ultimately learn “yeah, that teacher is pretty stupid.” When a 12 year old knows more about celestial dynamics than the science teacher, the U.S. is in deep dodo.

ResourceGuy
June 6, 2021 12:18 pm

I would suggest pushing the liberal, progressive parties everywhere to advocate for surcharges on pensions, social security, and health insurance so we can all watch during elections. Don’t forget the burial taxes and impact fees. Go for it scumbags.

ResourceGuy
June 6, 2021 12:19 pm

You’ll like the purple Kool aid also.

ResourceGuy
June 6, 2021 12:22 pm

Preach the sermon on overpopulation to them first. That way they’ll know who they’re dealing with.

H.R.
June 6, 2021 12:27 pm

(above) “5. Older people can be wealthy”

Aha! There’s the motivation; $$$$$$$$$$. It’s always been about the money. They didn’t even bother trying to hide it.
.
.
Can’t get any money out of the kids living in their parent’s basement. Fact is, you have to pay them to go protest, or at least hold out the possibility that they might get laid.

Dave Fair
Reply to  H.R.
June 6, 2021 3:06 pm

That kept me going in my teens.

June 6, 2021 1:28 pm

Mobilise white old man ???
Worth to reflect about 😀

a happy little debunker
June 6, 2021 1:33 pm

I’m so old – I remember the ‘population bomb’.
Now we have an existential societal crisis over failing global birth rates…

saveenergy
Reply to  a happy little debunker
June 6, 2021 6:00 pm

I helped make the ‘population bomb
Happy to assist in reversing the falling global birth rates (& without any blue pills), but I don’t do back seat of cars any more !!!

H.R.
Reply to  saveenergy
June 6, 2021 6:27 pm

Thank you for your service! 😜

Geoff Sherrington
Reply to  saveenergy
June 7, 2021 3:39 am

She and I were alone in the car at the drive-in theatre. We were getting on so well that I suggested, “Time to get into the back seat now?” Crestfallen look said “But Geoff, I want to stay in the front seat with you.”

steveH
Reply to  saveenergy
June 8, 2021 9:41 am

Back seats these days are a lot more cramped than they used to be.

pochas94
June 6, 2021 1:37 pm

You missed one. Oldsters have grown children and grandchildren, whom they dearly want to succeed. They dislike watching them engaged in foolish and fruitless programs promoted by others in their own (old) age group. They want them to have health and a reasonable amount of wealth, and be free of oppression by those who would seek to control their every thought, word, and deed.

mikebartnz
June 6, 2021 1:37 pm

I remember in a 1970 physics class being told that at that time they weren’t sure if the earth would be warming or cooling as they weren’t sure if the earth was moving closer or farther away from the sun.

Wade
June 6, 2021 1:38 pm

With age comes wisdom. The older people have been around and they aren’t stupid and naive like the brainwashed youth. They won’t be swayed by lies and half-truths.

Joao Martins
June 6, 2021 1:44 pm

Don’t f..k up with old people, your parasitic scoundrels!

Climate believer
June 6, 2021 1:50 pm

These a-holes spend all their time denigrating and blaming old people for everything, climate, Trump, Brexit, war you name it, and Oh! now you want some money?

Go phuck yourselves!

philincalifornia
Reply to  Climate believer
June 6, 2021 3:53 pm

Now that’s just wrong ……..

Except that it’s right. Go fcuk yourselves. Send your 52-week Paid Time Of request to AOC, c/o thetalkingchipmunk.com

PaulH
June 6, 2021 2:04 pm

I remember a time in 1970 when I was in grade 7 or 8 when the teachers herded all of us kids into the school gym to watch a movie that proclaimed: within 15 years the air would be too polluted to breathe and the water would be too polluted to drink. So, yeah, we oldsters have seen this “movie” before and we know how it ends. 

John
Reply to  PaulH
June 6, 2021 2:29 pm

I was about to say, we’ve heard it for 50 years and none of their dire predictions have come true yet. It’s become clear to us that they mean to dismantle Western Civilization by beating it with their hammers and sickles without considering that changes like that mean no more Internet, no more cellphones, and no more Frappuccinos.

H.R.
Reply to  John
June 6, 2021 6:33 pm

If I can still have my avocado toast, I’ll come through it all just fine.

(Oh….. OK………. 😜)

Walter Sobchak
June 6, 2021 2:27 pm

“Dr. Fauci’s public backflips”

Well, that, and having paid the Chinese to invent the virus.

iflyjetzzz
Reply to  Walter Sobchak
June 6, 2021 5:38 pm

Shhhh. Don’t ever suggest that gain of function research is far more dangerous to the future of mankind than the earth’s ever changing temperatures.

Scientists. Some of them are the dumbest people in the room. And definitely the most dangerous.

Geoff Sherrington
Reply to  iflyjetzzz
June 7, 2021 3:42 am

ifly,
Do please make that specific to climate research.Good science was used to let you fly safely. Geoff S

Coeur de Lion
June 6, 2021 2:40 pm

I’m 86 and have lived here on and off for 50 years and damme if the vegetation has gotten lusher into that time and it ain’t just a wet spring.

George Daddis
June 6, 2021 2:44 pm

scientific authority” – a helpful rephrase for me in discussions with family or friends on the left..

I get frustrated when I hear someone say “I believe in science” or as Fauci said this week “...they are attacking science“.
I will try to make the point that what they are really saying is “I believe in scientific authority” or “they are attacking scientific authority (in this instance meaning attacking me, Dr. Fauci)”.

Making “authority” the subject may be more meaningful or fruitful.

(Attempting to argue that “science” in that context is a meaningless abstraction usually does not connect with a Progressive.)

Joel O’Bryan
June 6, 2021 2:55 pm

The climate scam is of course socialism’s Trojan Horse poison pill for Western Democracies.
Socialism basically destroys every traditional institution it touches. Most long lasting institutions, like family, church, community, are bottom-up organized. Bottom-up organization makes them anti-fragile, to use Nassim Nicholas Taleb’s descriptor from his book by the same name. Socialism, like all forms of authoritarian state directed political systems, is a top-down directed political system of State directed economic activity over individual. They are poison to bottom up organized social structures.
As such socialism has infected and destroyed the professional science academies, in the US a process started by VP Al Gore in 1993, and continued by Obama’s anti-science Science Advisor John Holdren 2009-2016. Now Dementia Joe’s handlers have put Gavin Schmidt in charge of continuing the climate corruption of science. It will take a concerted, grass roots uprising among you get, disaffected scientists to perform an exorcism on the socialist science-body snatchers. The older scientists now are the Mannian corrupted generation rotten to the roots.

ResourceGuy
June 6, 2021 3:11 pm

Does this include getting coerced climate statements from people on their deathbed? I would not put it past them.

Waza
June 6, 2021 3:15 pm

Trust.
Our level of trust in people changes as we get older.
Everyone one is different as they are shaped with different experiences, but in general, as a child our default is to trust someone and as an adult our default is to mistrust someone.

June 6, 2021 3:57 pm

This explains part of the problem
https://youtu.be/qkXZ3_ZmKzw

iflyjetzzz
June 6, 2021 5:02 pm

This is plagiarism! I have written the exact same comments more than a few times on various websites, including posting the Youtube In Search Of clip.

In my youth, I completely bought into a coming ice age. And I remember just how freaking cold the 60s and 70s were. Over the years, I’ve observed the raw data (before it was butchered by multiple ‘adjustments’ done by bureaucrats who altered the data to fit global warming hypothesis) and determined that the earth warms and cools in multi decade cycles. It has been that way for a very, very long time. Unfortunately, those bureaucrats have successfully ‘smoothed out’ the earth’s cooling cycle that happened from the 1940s to the 1980s.
And there is the big lie that there was no scientific agreement about a coming ice age. They’ve rewritten history by sweeping those forecasts under the rug along with corrupting the raw data to fit their global warming thesis.

While I do not look forward to the natural variation of global cooling to take hold (we are in the best days of my life in terms of the earth’s weather), I do look forward to the feeling of schadenfreude I will experience when the warmunists run out of reasons why the earth has gone into a multidecade cooling cycle.

iflyjetzzz
Reply to  Eric Worrall
June 7, 2021 8:53 am

Well, it is pretty obvious that we’re dealing with natural variations in weather and that man’s impact on weather is de minimis.

Sorry, that original post was meant to be humorous; a fail on my part.

Last edited 7 days ago by iflyjetzzz
Kelly Logan
June 6, 2021 5:25 pm

Some say age is only a number. Others associate age with wisdom.

Nailed in 1

Tom
June 6, 2021 5:25 pm

Alarmist don’t like historical facts or historical records

Gerald Hanner
June 6, 2021 5:30 pm

I have zero confidence in the predictions of severe climate change.

Jean
June 6, 2021 7:26 pm

I like to flatter myself that I am the eldest oyster in the Walrus and the Carpenter: “”0 Oysters, come and walk with us!”
The Walrus did beseech. ….
The eldest Oyster winked his eye,
And shook his heavy head—
Meaning to say he did not choose
To leave the oyster-bed. ” etc

Barry Sheridan
June 7, 2021 12:03 am

We who are older do not engage in what we realise is a movement driven by fear mongering mumbo jumbo. We who are older recognise how the young are burdened by the propaganda that fills their lives. We who are older will resist the lies and deceits and hope our example will inspire those who are younger to think for themselves.

Vincent Causey
June 7, 2021 12:12 am

No, this is wrong. Leonard Nimoy played Mr Spock, not Dr Spock. (Dr Spock was actually a real person).

Matthew Sykes
June 7, 2021 12:30 am

Because we are old and free of the traps of teenage cults we can not only recognise BS when it is fed us, but we can recognise a cult too, and Climate Changism has the hallmark of one.

Sara
June 7, 2021 4:34 am

Fat good? Fat bad? The native residents of Tierra del Fuego were so acclimated to what we mere mortals would consider foul, bad, cold weather that they sometimes slept outside buck nekkid. I was surprised when I read that. They were, in fact, carrying a layer of body fat that the rest of us do not have, which allowed them to survive quite well in an extremely harsh environment, a feature of their physiology that none of the rest of us have, except maybe Eskimos and other northern inhabitants like the reindeer herders of Yakutia. I was very surprised about this inherited trait that they had, but it made sense. Unfortunately, the last native Fuegian, a woman, died some time ago.

If it really goes blistering cold, most of us will be doomed unless we can find a way to acclimate ourselves to it. I have two good pairs of waterproof, insulated winter boots, plus plenty of thermal clothing, so I think I’m good to go, even if my ski jacket makes me look like a pink snowperson.

Tony Sullivan
June 7, 2021 4:42 am

I’ll be 61 later this year and have 3 kids, and 2 grandkids (so far) and none of us spend any time worrying about the changing climate. The focus has always been, and will continue to be adaptation – on whatever curveballs are thrown our way. Obviously life is full of them.

Glass is always half full with me and my clan.

Michael Nagy
June 7, 2021 5:52 am

You can’t get much older than me, 75. I will say this and I believe it to be true, my high school education in the 60’s was just as good as the average college education is today. My nephew who just graduated from college knows nothing about geography, history, english, literature and even simple math escapes him without a calculator. He has no practical experience with auto mechanics, carpentry, plumbing or electricity. I know all of those things and more. I’ve had time to sift through the ideas that don’t work and stay with those that do.
I will admit that at this age I have lots of time to read and learn about how the world is going today and I don’t like it. People hating others because they don’t support the same guy for President? Check. People fearing for their lives from some pathetic disease? Check. People putting a guy in the White House who has dementia and has caused my life to be harder? Check. Web sites shutting down ideas they don’t like? Check. All the science-fiction novels I read as a kid are coming true, at least the ones that predicted fascistic states. And the US isn’t as bad as Canada where if you leave the country you must then quarantine for two weeks upon return.
And since I read the articles on Watts Up With That every day it is going to be very hard to convince me the world is burning up. I also remember the 70’s when they told us we must sprinkle coal dust on the north and south poles to melt the ice faster due to the coming ice age. But at least back then nobody believed them. Today they do. Actually I don’t know many people who think about this much, way to many other things more pressing.
That’s my thought for the day. I want to follow the science but when it has shown to be just another bunch of money-grubbing hucksters it is very hard.

TonyG
June 7, 2021 8:07 am

So why are old people so disengaged?

You pretty well summed it up. We’ve seen enough to know there’s really nothing new going on, and the screaming hysterics about “worst storm season ever” and the like is just that: hysterics.

Olen
June 7, 2021 9:40 am

An education while giving more to work with does not necessarily guarantee good judgement. And age does not guarantee good judgement if they have learned nothing along the way.

Older people, at least some, have invested a lot into retirement and do not want to see that destroyed since there is little opportunity to recover.

Endless promises and predictions mean little when it does not happen or is damaging contributes to a conservative view in older people. That can happen to younger people it their interests are at risk.

CD in Wisconsin
June 7, 2021 10:06 am

‘Whatever it is, age is a factor in climate progress, and 2021’s renewed climate momentum must mobilise the oft-overlooked elderly demographic.”

*******

In the linked website below, there is a rather lengthy list of characteristics to look for when determining whether a given organization or group can be classified as a cult.

http://cultresearch.org/help/characteristics-associated-with-cults

One of the characteristics in the list that seems to apply to the subject of this WUWT posting is the following….

‘The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.”

*******

Whether mobilizing new members is a “preoccupation” in the climatic alarmist movement is probably debatable, but it is probably safe to say that it is at least a concern or issue among the believers. Let’s say that it applies on a modest scale or level.

In my lifetime, I’ve seen three cults come and go: Jonestown, the Branch Davidians of Waco and Heaven’s Gate in the San Diego area. All three end in the deaths of the entire cult (save for those who left before the end). Watching everything that happens in life as you live your life is one of the ways in which wisdom comes with age. You learn from the ignorance of others.

I have also learned from my own stupid mistakes over time (yes, I readily admit to it).

Edward Katz
June 7, 2021 2:14 pm

Older people aren’t particularly engaged with any of the climate hysteria theories because they’ve heard variations of this brand of BS for typically a half-century or longer, and they know that subscribing to them will inevitability lead to higher taxes and more restrictions. Then they’ll find that in the end they’ve made no difference, so they’re happy to let the naive and over-idealistic younger population embrace the hogwash.

Charles G Gill
June 8, 2021 12:11 am

As an older person who has modelled complex systems, I’m calling total BS on the climate change movement.

Johann Wundersamer
June 8, 2021 3:59 pm

Eric, it’s maybe clever from the guardian to concentrate on seniors; After all, many of the young generations are already registered by the police for identification purposes and no longer welcomed outside the terminals and frolicking onto the streets. Kinda Xtinctioned.

__________________

Compare Kamala Harris https://www.google.com/search?q=Kamela+Harris+unaccompanied+minors&oq=Kamela+Harris+unaccompanied+minors+&aqs=chrome.

Last edited 6 days ago by Johann Wundersamer
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