Left Wing Activists Demand Americans Freeze in the Dark… Because?

Guest “You can’t fix stupid” by David Middleton

Left-wing activists demand Democrats exclude nuclear and carbon capture from climate bill
by Abby Smith, Energy and Environment Reporter | | May 12, 2021

Left-wing climate activists are stepping up their opposition to policies from top Democrats promoting nuclear energy and carbon capture, signaling a tough debate as the Biden administration advances legislation to curb power sector emissions.

[…]

Jean Su, energy justice program director with the Center for Biological Diversity, said there’s a prevailing narrative that 100% renewable energy isn’t feasible because there isn’t the political will to figure out how to get there.

“Nobody knows exactly how to get there yet because nobody is trying,” Su said. “We need to actually try, and how we try is by putting on very stern deadlines as close as possible to now.”

[…]

They say policies that promote technologies such as nuclear energy and carbon capture, or allow natural gas to continue operating, harm the health of minority and poorer regions the most, as they’ll continue to breathe air polluted by power plant smokestacks or live near toxic mining sites.

“When you want to get to the heart of racism and inequalities, the tentacles in our energy system are very deep,” Su said. “And if you want to actually address that in our energy system, that means you have to start at the core of it, which is stopping these fossil fuel plants altogether.”

Washington Examiner

“Nobody knows exactly how to get there yet because nobody is trying. We need to actually try, and how we try is by putting on very stern deadlines as close as possible to now.”

Ms. Su mustn’t have watched much Star Trek…

“They’ll continue to… live near toxic mining sites…”

As opposed to living and dying *in* toxic mining sites?

Are These Tech Companies Complicit In Human Rights Abuses Of Child Cobalt Miners In Congo?

The lawsuit alleges that “the young children mining Defendants’ cobalt are not merely being forced to work full-time, extremely dangerous mining jobs at the expense their educations and futures; they are being regularly maimed and killed by tunnel collapses and other known hazards common to cobalt mining in the DRC.” Apple, Alphabet, Microsoft, Dell and Tesla are alleged to have been aiding and abetting the deaths and serious injuries of the Claimant’s children working in cobalt mines in the supply chain of the tech corporations.

Forbes

“When you want to get to the heart of racism and inequalities, the tentacles in our energy system are very deep. And if you want to actually address that in our energy system, that means you have to start at the core of it, which is stopping these fossil fuel plants altogether.”

Jean Su just earned a Billy Madison Lifetime Achievement Award with a Ron White Cluster Frack.

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ResourceGuy
May 14, 2021 2:06 pm

At least Uncle Joe has a plan post-Yucca Mtn.—oh wait.

Reply to  ResourceGuy
May 14, 2021 2:21 pm

Resident Joe’s plan is the Green New Deal and it’s wonderful promises energy security … https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AJGTOH3Ygg

bigoilbob
Reply to  John Shewchuk
May 15, 2021 5:46 am

Hate to Cliffie Clavin you, but when your vid has spello’s in its narrative, I’m outa there.

Reply to  bigoilbob
May 15, 2021 6:03 am

Thanks Cliff — much appreciated.

bigoilbob
Reply to  ResourceGuy
May 15, 2021 6:05 am

Silly to summarily exclude either nuc or CCUS. If the folks in Nevada ever accept Yucca Mountain* and all of the waste now being stored in the back 40 of virtually every nuc power facility ever licensed in the CONUS is successfully transported there and properly entombed, call me back. And any CCUS facility built and operated without tax giveaways from the rest of us should be rewarded with proceeds from an adequate carbon tax, otherwise rebated equitably, regularly, totally, (i.e. no tobacco tax honeypotting**) to all US residents.

Deal….?

  • I wouldn’t, and most Nevadans seem to agree. As a practical matter, they don’t want to gift stewardship of this facility to tens of thousands of generations of their spawn, and the feds can’t make them.

** Admittedly difficult, but the Alaska rebate seems to work well enough. TAF 1990 any more…

Walter Sobchak
Reply to  bigoilbob
May 15, 2021 11:11 am

Storing nuclear waste is a bad idea. When removed from light water moderated reactors, fuel elements retain 95% of their original energy value. They should not be stored, they should be recycled.

Last edited 5 months ago by Walter Sobchak
Robert A Davis
Reply to  Walter Sobchak
May 15, 2021 12:23 pm

Ok by me, but in the end, there will ALWAYS be waste that must be stored. Delay is fine. Deny is not….

DiogenesNJ
Reply to  Walter Sobchak
May 19, 2021 6:18 pm

You are correct; France recycles its nuclear waste and burns the plutonium in mixed-oxide fuel. The remaining nuclides are predominantly short to moderate half-life elements.

But the point everybody seems to miss in the “thousands of generations” argument is the assumption that everything else remains static. It will not. The fear underlying all of this is that radiation is a (weak) carcinogen. Given the medical and biotechnology progress just of the last century, do you really believe that we won’t understand how to prevent or treat cancer in the next 3 or 4 centuries (unless we wipe ourselves out in a war, in which case reactor waste will be the least of our problems)?

pls
Reply to  bigoilbob
May 17, 2021 2:43 am

>thousands of generations…

Facts are stubborn things. In 600 years, reactor waste is no more radioactive than the rocks that were originally mined for the uranium. In 1200 years, it’s no more radioactive than a typical granite countertop. These numbers are smaller for the residue from reprocessing used fuel.

There are buildings in Europe and the Middle East that are older than that and are still in use.

bigoilbob
Reply to  pls
May 17, 2021 5:01 am

Facts are stubborn things. In 600 years, reactor waste is no more radioactive than the rocks that were originally mined for the uranium.”

Well, no. Since there will certainly be plutonium in the mix, whatever makes it to Yucca Mountain must still must be stored and stewarded, for those “tens of thousands of generations”. But I’ll throw you a bone, and call that period hyperbolic. Merely thousands of generations.

“Given the 24,000-year half-life of plutonium, scientists aim to design containment mechanisms and choose sites that will remain safe and isolated for 100,000 years.”

https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2018/looking-trash-can-nuclear-waste-management-united-states/

Bigger pic, you continue to ignore the realities on the ground. The Nevadans don’t want it. The Native Americans don’t want it. The feds will never ram it down their collective throats. And I wouldn’t want it, with the inevitable requirement of tens of thousands of years of keeping it out of bounds, and safe from natural and unforeseen man made events, as well as it being a natural terrorist target.

Per “Rocky”, “You should’a planned ahead….”.

Vuk
May 14, 2021 2:13 pm

Europeans and just few American pilgrims lived through the late 1600s the bottom of the dark & cold LIA, with Maunder Minimum in the bargain.
Now may be it is time for the modern Americans to find out what all that was about. We Europeans will be in with you all the way.

max
Reply to  Vuk
May 14, 2021 5:13 pm

You can’t beat something with nothing.

conservative today support at least 3 planks of communist manifesto

voting population sees no real problem with fiat money, engaging in massive deficit spending, policing the entire world, providing health care, providing social security and micro-managing every business decision

Tom Abbott
Reply to  max
May 15, 2021 6:20 am

It’s lack of leadership.

May 14, 2021 2:28 pm

“Nobody knows exactly how to get there yet because nobody is trying,” Su said. “We need to actually try, and how we try is by putting on very stern deadlines as close as possible to now.”

So you have no clue how to accomplish your desired result, and the way to actually accomplish it is to want it really hard. And force everybody to want it as much as you do. Okay. I didn’t realize it was so simple.

The left always ends up eating their leaders. Biden won’t even be a morsel.

Bryan A
Reply to  Paul Stevens
May 14, 2021 2:42 pm

breathe air polluted by power plant smokestacks or live near toxic mining sites.
Hmmm…Toxic Mining Sites…like Cobalt and Cadmium and Lithium and Neodymium…news flash activists, no matter where your energy supply comes from, mining will still be necessary and will produce toxic leftovers.
Oh, and “Smokestacks” haven’t spewed “Smoke” in decades…just water vapor and CO2

eck
Reply to  Bryan A
May 14, 2021 6:54 pm

Oh Bryan, CO2 is just as toxic as smoke, don’t you know? Get with the program!

eck
Reply to  eck
May 14, 2021 6:55 pm

Hope I didn’t need a /sarc

Bryan A
Reply to  eck
May 14, 2021 8:41 pm

Not hardly

Colin
Reply to  eck
May 14, 2021 8:54 pm

We all know CO2 is toxic…..at 100%. But at today’s levels? The plants and life is thriving

Dave Andrews
Reply to  Bryan A
May 15, 2021 7:40 am

Yes she obviously has no idea about the huge increase in mining for minerals and rare earth materials that net zero will require.

mikebartnz
Reply to  Paul Stevens
May 14, 2021 2:46 pm

Google tried it and it didn’t work.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  mikebartnz
May 15, 2021 6:21 am

There’s that. 🙂

Scissor
Reply to  Paul Stevens
May 14, 2021 2:50 pm

Personally, I’d go for the magic carpet solution first as it would fulfill many of our transportation needs.

H.R.
Reply to  Scissor
May 14, 2021 4:01 pm

Nah… I don’t need a magic carpet. I was promised that I’ll soon have a flying car in my garage.

Independent
Reply to  H.R.
May 14, 2021 11:29 pm

Teleporter. Wish it. Want it. Do it.

JBW
Reply to  Scissor
May 15, 2021 2:46 am

“MayDay, MayDay, this is Magic Carpet 777, moths in the left weave, request immediate assistance.”

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  JBW
May 15, 2021 9:32 am

“Pull up!”

“No it’s alright, I got it!”

“EJECT!!”

“No I got…” splat.

dk_
Reply to  Paul Stevens
May 14, 2021 4:01 pm

If you try, really, really hard, to believe in faries, Tinkerbell is still children’s fiction.
Funny that.

Colin
Reply to  dk_
May 14, 2021 8:55 pm

But is it Politically Correct?

Reply to  Paul Stevens
May 14, 2021 4:11 pm

Su, it is easy: Lead by example. Right now. Don’t use any energy that might not be 100% renewable.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Curious George
May 15, 2021 9:34 am

Considering that the Sun will eventually die, and the wind will eventually stop blowing. There is no such thing as “renewables”.

Rich Davis
Reply to  Paul Stevens
May 14, 2021 4:30 pm

You’re absolutely right Rog, her comments were appalling. But I would stop short of calling her a cannibal.

I’m sure that’s what you meant right?

MarkW
Reply to  Paul Stevens
May 14, 2021 4:31 pm

I have always been fascinated how the left actually believes they get to decide who’s the leader of other groups.

It’s almost as if they have come to believe their own fantasies.

Rory Forbes
Reply to  MarkW
May 14, 2021 5:14 pm

The Left spends so much of their time believing in lies and fantasies, they can’t even remember where they put the truth when it’s needed.

Bruce Cobb
Reply to  Paul Stevens
May 15, 2021 5:17 am

It appears the “leader” of the Republicans is not only a total moron and pathological liar, but a traitor to both his party, and more importantly, his country. Sad.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
May 15, 2021 6:31 am

Got any evidence to back that up, Bruce?

Of course you don’t. You’re just blowing smoke.

John Endicott
Reply to  Tom Abbott
May 17, 2021 2:35 am

Who needs evidence when you’ve got full blown TDS

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Paul Stevens
May 15, 2021 6:29 am

Liz didn’t read the Republican Party very well. She incorrectly thought that most Republicans looked at things the way she does. She found out differently.

I think this is Liz’ attempt to takeover the Never Trumper movement. It’s not really a movement, it is a few disgruntled “Republicans in name only”. That’s who Liz wants to lead. She is welcome to it. A loser leading a bunch of other losers.

I predict Liz won’t get very far with her attacks on Trump, which is what this is all about. She doesn’t like him personally, so that’s what’s important to her. It doesn’t matter that Trump is a conservative’s dream as far as policy is concerned. That is not the first priority of Liz.

I hear she acquired several new political challengers to her Wyoming seat in the last few days. Trump will probably show up and give a campaign speech for her opponent. That will be fun.

Trump’s going to start holding public rallies again starting next month. That will be fun, too.

Reply to  Tom Abbott
May 15, 2021 10:26 am

She’s a Deep State neocon like her dad, wanting endless wars to fund the defense industrial complex.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
May 16, 2021 4:31 am

My big problem with Liz Cheney is her actions are helping the radical Democrats to destroy the nation because both the Democrats and Cheney are distorting the truth about Trump and are leading this nation down the Road to Ruin, as a result. They are all on the same delusional, dangerous TDS channel.

Any help a Republican gives to the radical Democrats at this time is an attack on the personal freedoms of everyone, because the radical Democrats want to take all those freedoms away.

Pauleta
May 14, 2021 2:33 pm

“deadlines as close as possible to now.”

Do it now, start Su, be the sacrificial lamb, set the tone, walk the walk, spearhead, but please do not forget to try harder everyday

Bryan A
Reply to  Pauleta
May 14, 2021 2:46 pm

Absolutely time for Mr. Su to sever her connection to Grid Sourced energy and create ALL she needs from personal Wind and Solar.
AND to stop using all of the other 6000+ products derived from PetroChemicals

Last edited 5 months ago by Bryan A
Gary Pearse
Reply to  Bryan A
May 14, 2021 3:22 pm

“Create all the energy she needs just from personal Wind…

Well, that’s at least lower in carbon than coal.

Rud Istvan
Reply to  Gary Pearse
May 14, 2021 3:44 pm

Beans

Rud Istvan
May 14, 2021 2:35 pm

The Center for Biological Diversity (based in San Fran) has a long and ‘distinguished’ history of being WRONG on everything. They sued to force the US to declare the north American Pika endangered because of climate change. They lost, abjectly. Wrote that one up in essay No Bodies in ebook Blowing Smoke.
They are also big on ocean acidification, and bought the Netarts Bay Whiskey Creek ouster Hatchery academic misconduct by PMEL hook, line, and sinker. Wrote that goof up in essay Shell Games.
Not content to always get biology wrong, now they get the grid wrong. Renewables are intermittent and lack grid inertia. No matter how hard the Center hopes, wishes, and tries, their renewables ‘dream’ is physically impossible.
The Center is another reason California is a climate crash test dummy.

B Clarke
Reply to  Rud Istvan
May 14, 2021 3:03 pm

I’ve a not so sneaky suspicion the string pullers know this,Biden is having his strings pulled,boris too, but they also know, hoping the masses don’t, but some do, the cold is coming which they know too, the conclusion I think ,well you know.

Reply to  Rud Istvan
May 14, 2021 4:15 pm

At least 50% of The Center for Biological Diversity directors should be non-human species. Or are they already?

BobM
Reply to  Curious George
May 15, 2021 7:01 pm

They are but don’t know it because they are not self-aware.

another ian
Reply to  Rud Istvan
May 15, 2021 2:55 am

The term “Spasmodic energy” came up in a comment at Jo Nova and links to this site

http://www.spasmodicenergy.com/Pages/Capacity.aspx

Reply to  Rud Istvan
May 15, 2021 10:30 am

Crashing the West’s national electric grids is a feature, not a bug, in the watermelon’s plans. Never has been about climate or science.

Hoyt Clagwell
May 14, 2021 2:36 pm

Never has a liberal proposed to help the poor by helping them to stop being poor. The solution is always to make them more comfortable in their poverty.

Robert A. Taylor
Reply to  Hoyt Clagwell
May 14, 2021 3:42 pm

Thanks. I’ll use that, if you don’t mind.

Drake
Reply to  Hoyt Clagwell
May 14, 2021 4:50 pm

They ALWAYS have a way of making liberals richer by creating a bureaucracy to employ themselves as 50% overhead for the monies sent through the rent seeking process.

Ever notice how almost all “non-profits” pay their employees bigley and very little of the funds reach the actual “needy”? Also notice that the US has never required “non-profit tax exempt organizations to advertise in their fundraising literature the actual % of funds going to the claimed purpose, re. the Clinton Crime Foundation as an example.

Richard (the cynical one)
Reply to  Hoyt Clagwell
May 14, 2021 7:35 pm

And the most effective way to make them more comfortable, or rather, less uncomfortable, Hoyt, is to extend the benefits of poverty to as many as possible. It’s called ‘being inclusive’.

PCman999
Reply to  Hoyt Clagwell
May 15, 2021 1:12 am

“Never has a liberal proposed to help the poor by helping them to stop being poor. The solution is always …” to create even more poor people to join them in solidarity and consolation!

Pat Frank
May 14, 2021 2:39 pm

Clearly, Mr. Su has a very powerful empirical argument. He should demonstrate it for the edification of all.

Mr. Su, ‘needs to actually try, and how he tries is by putting on very stern deadlines [on his lifestyle] as close as possible to now.’

Mr. Su must have a very clear idea about how much energy per person the deep science of energy justice prescribes.

Let Mr. Su put a stern deadline on himself as close as possible to now, to live according to his energy justice prescriptions. Demonstrate for us all the living beneficence of your utopia, Mr. Su.

There’s no over or under on that bet. Only a constant never.

Mr. Su is living proof of the hazards of a society so prosperous and strong that mindless such people pay no price for espousing idiocy.

Last edited 5 months ago by Pat Frank
Bryan A
Reply to  Pat Frank
May 14, 2021 2:51 pm

Mr Su needs to realize that even the Great minds at GOOGLE tried and failed to prove concept. The best you will accomplish is to Outsource your Carbon Energy Generation

Jim Gorman
Reply to  Bryan A
May 14, 2021 3:02 pm

Hell Yeah! Let’s outsource all production to Canada. They won’t need the Keystone pipeline or one to the coast. They can line the border with oil fired generators and send all the electricity south to the US.

That way the politicians can stand on each side of the border, point at the other side, and say, “If it wasn’t for them we could have less CO2” and never have to do anything real.

Reply to  Pat Frank
May 14, 2021 4:19 pm

Mr. Su is a She. Jean Su, Energy Justice Program Director, Staff Attorney, oversees and develops the Energy Justice Program’s campaigns, dedicated to hastening the clean, democratic energy future so urgently needed to protect wildlife, communities and the climate.

Rud Istvan
Reply to  Curious George
May 14, 2021 4:28 pm

That observation was old school ‘wrong’. (Sarc).
In San fran, there are MANY more gender identifying ‘pronouns‘ thN just two. Maybe ‘she’ is a he identifying as ‘she’ to win collegiate women’s sports medals. Or just some sort of it…dunno.

Bryan A
Reply to  Rud Istvan
May 14, 2021 8:45 pm

Personally I’m still awaiting the first TransRacial person to come forward and declare themselves along with the remainder of the alphabet LGBTQRST

pHil R
Reply to  Bryan A
May 15, 2021 7:39 am

Already happened. Think Rachel Dolezol (may be spelled wrong, but way to uninterested to look it up) among many others.

Walter Sobchak
Reply to  Rud Istvan
May 15, 2021 11:14 am

Admit it, she thinks like a teen age girl.

Pat Frank
Reply to  Curious George
May 14, 2021 5:37 pm

You’re right, Ms. Su.

Reply to  Pat Frank
May 15, 2021 10:32 am

Probably a Chinese intelligence service sleeper agent.

Bryan A
Reply to  Curious George
May 14, 2021 8:46 pm

So SU me

Frank from NoVA
Reply to  Pat Frank
May 14, 2021 5:02 pm

By Ms. Su’s “logic”, we can all fly if we flap our arms fast enough – we just haven’t tried hard enough to this point to succeed. There are some countries in the developing world where one can test this hypothesis when the locals push you off a tall building. Lucky for her, she lives here, where has moved seamlessly through some of our best schools and a series of green gigs, no doubt mostly paid for by the largess of long dead industrialists.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  David Middleton
May 15, 2021 9:44 am

You never can tell these days. Might be a hir, an ey, or a fae. Who knows.

n.n
May 14, 2021 2:52 pm

Relieve the “burden”? Think of Gaia!

Chris Hanley
May 14, 2021 2:57 pm

“… Nobody knows exactly how to get there yet because nobody is trying” Su said. “We I need to actually try …”.

H.R.
Reply to  Chris Hanley
May 14, 2021 4:53 pm

Yep, Chris. If nobody is trying, then that means Su isn’t trying. How can anybody in good conscience ask others to do what they won’t do?
.
.
Oh wait……………. good conscience…. I think I may have found the problem.

Rick C
Reply to  Chris Hanley
May 14, 2021 5:45 pm

“No body has found unicorns because no one is looking hard enough.” “Absence of proof of unicorns is not proof of absence of unicorns.”
“We don’t need to have reliable energy sources to have reliable energy.”

10 points if you can spot the logical flaws in the above.

Last edited 5 months ago by Rick C
H.R.
Reply to  Rick C
May 15, 2021 7:23 pm

Every rule has an exception except this rule.

TonyL
May 14, 2021 2:58 pm

“The Stupid, It Burns”
That is your clue, you need to understand it.

“You can’t fix stupid”
Have you tried napalm? The clue was given above.

Rud Istvan has written recently that he believed as many of us did, that a sound refutation of some of the errors in AGW theory and practice would help to unravel this mess. As we all found out, the AGW cabal is immune to logic and reason. AGW “Science” is now totally in the political and ideological realms. What to do?

Mockery.
Mock them, humiliate them, laugh at them. It is the one thing they have no defense against and they can not stand it.

Pat Frank
Reply to  TonyL
May 14, 2021 3:30 pm

I agree, Tony. Ridicule is the appropriate way forward.

Here’s a custom T-shirt idea along those lines. The spiked ends are XO symbols.

Climate Nutters.jpg
Bob
May 14, 2021 3:11 pm

Everyone who talks like Su should immediately and forever be taken off the grid.

dk_
Reply to  Bob
May 14, 2021 5:43 pm

Bob, Just FYI, It seems as if Jean Su is also known as Jean Lindsay-Fu, Jean White, Jean E Lindsaysu, Jean E Lindsay, Jean E Lindsay-Su, SuJean Lindsay, L Jean, Jean Lindsay Fu, J E Lindsay, and lists “she” and “her” as her acceptable pronouns. The Center for Biological Diversity says that it is a 501(c)(3) charitable corporation in DC. The center has much text and pictures on their web site about programs dealing with the environment. Jean is supposedly a staff attorney, and has several job titles at the center.
Jean may also be the same person who once worked as an attorney at Hotai motors, a Chinese builder of automobiles for Chinese sales under Japanese auto brand names.
I can’t tell if the center, or anyone at it, is registered as a foreign lobbyist.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  dk_
May 15, 2021 7:58 am

“Bob, Just FYI, It seems as if Jean Su is also known as Jean Lindsay-Fu, Jean White, Jean E Lindsaysu, Jean E Lindsay, Jean E Lindsay-Su, SuJean Lindsay, L Jean, Jean Lindsay Fu, J E Lindsay, and lists “she” and “her” as her acceptable pronouns.”

Holly Molly!

That sounds like a credit card theif, or a spy.

Why would someone need so many aliases? And go to the trouble of listing them? Or maybe you are just a good detective? 🙂

dk_
Reply to  Tom Abbott
May 15, 2021 9:51 am

“Detective?” Not at all. Just results from a non-gooble search algorithm. Off hand, maybe one of those alternates is true, only based on the form of the name, and on how many Asian cultures list surname first. But the pronoun thing and most of the rest come from the center website. I dumped most social media long ago, but if I was still in, say, LinkedIn, I could easily have found more and more reliable information.

I have found out that 501(c)(3) can’t make campaign contributions or engage in some kinds of lobbying, but with a broad charter there are probably few restrictions on the center’s lobbying activities.

My purpose was to point out that often what are branded as leftists or liberals are demonstrably, obviously, agents speaking and acting for a foreign commercial interest and an economic rival. It isn’t Q, conspiracy theory, or paranoia if it is self-announced and in plain sight. Try this trick: just do one open source search on three random spokesperson-writer-“journalists” this week, then see if your attitude changes on whatever they’ve written.

Last edited 5 months ago by dk_
Derg
May 14, 2021 3:13 pm

Why in the world would we want to capture carbon ?

TonyL
Reply to  Derg
May 14, 2021 3:21 pm

I have certainly have heard of neutron capture. Perhaps it is the same.
I wonder what would happen if you were to bombard Uranium or Plutonium with carbon nuclei?
Perhaps Mr. Su would find he had solved his own energy problem.

Rud Istvan
Reply to  TonyL
May 14, 2021 4:42 pm

Tony, ‘slow neutron’ large capture radius is key to the Widom/Larsen explanation of LENR, falsely named cold fusion. Alas, the energy input to produce ‘heavy electrons’ then captured by protons to produce ‘slow neutrons’ (W/L theory is just reverse beta decay) is experimently about 2, and never reached 4. Per ITER, at least 7 is a technical minimum for practical fusion energy production. Explained in the Recognition chapter of The Arts of Truth, and in essay Going Nuclear in Blowing Smoke. Been there, done that.

DonK31
Reply to  Derg
May 14, 2021 5:11 pm

Agree Derg. Even if Carbon Dioxide could be captured and stored, even if if extra Carbon Dioxide contributes to some of the warming, even if there is some real warming, why would we want it to stop?

Why would we want to go back to a time when the greatest fear was starvation from crop failures during years without summers? Why would we want to empty cities because backbreaking labor by 98% of the population was needed to harvest what could be grown? Why would we want to fear freezing in the dark?

I, for one, prefer civilization to starvation, anarchy, and 40 year life spans.

MarkW
Reply to  Derg
May 14, 2021 9:09 pm

We’ll capture us some carbon, then put it to work feeding plants.

Last edited 5 months ago by MarkW
Old Cocky
Reply to  Derg
May 14, 2021 9:39 pm

Bored with Pokemons?

Abolition Man
Reply to  Derg
May 15, 2021 3:57 pm

Good question, Derg!
Aren’t free-range carbon supposed to happier and healthier?

AGW is Not Science
Reply to  Derg
May 15, 2021 6:39 pm

Especially when there are plants that do it quite well, and provide food, firewood, and other such benefits. Win-win!

JoHo
May 14, 2021 3:19 pm

I wonder how they propose to produce all the steel required for their Green New Deal? Wind or Solar power? Oh, hang on, they both require tons of steel! Chicken or egg?

Rud Istvan
Reply to  JoHo
May 14, 2021 3:25 pm

There you go, applying logic rather than feelings. GND Buzz killer. Waaa!

DonM
Reply to  JoHo
May 14, 2021 4:39 pm

You missed the Su’s point.

First you need to accept & agree that you will TRY to produce the steel that is needed to produce the steel that you can’t knowingly produce.

Second you need to set and accept STERN deadlines for your action (STERN being defined as punitive/monetary payments that will be directed towards the groups that are acting to facilitate our green transition). If you fail in achieving your goal(s), one of which is producing steel that will allow you to produce said steel before you can actually produce the steel, then you will be required to pay the agreed to price.

Third, keep trying until you have given all of your stuff & money to Su’s groups.

No need to wonder how it is intended to work.

Last edited 5 months ago by DonM
Chris Hanley
Reply to  DonM
May 14, 2021 4:46 pm

… then you will be required to pay the agreed to price …

And if you refuse to pay ultimately the people with 9uns arrive on your doorstep.
And if you refuse to accompany them they draw them.

Bryan A
Reply to  DonM
May 14, 2021 8:55 pm

You have to make steel and silicon for solar PV cells BUT you must do it without Coal Mining

Abolition Man
Reply to  JoHo
May 14, 2021 9:16 pm

JoHo,
How can you be SO silly!?
The answer is obvious; dragons!
Just a few dragons can smelt all the steel we need. Tell them to stop hanging about with the unicorns and get to work

Rud Istvan
May 14, 2021 3:19 pm

Actually, Mr Taguchi, you somewhat mischaracterize TX. Its seat of government is Austin. Its main University (UT) is in Austin. I have been to Austin many times on business over the past two decades. Austin is deep blue. Austin chose to put all the wind turbines on the TX ERCOT grid. Austin chose not to have a capacity market, only a spot market. And Austin TX stupidity does burn.

dk_
Reply to  Rud Istvan
May 14, 2021 4:07 pm

Rud, everything you said there is true, but it doesn’t matter. Roger is a bot. It didn’t read the article. Just wrote some words that appeared in the article into a few of its pre-formatted pre-programmed phrases, and posted to this site. Usually, it follows its remarks with its own contradictions.

dk_
Reply to  dk_
May 14, 2021 5:26 pm

Never feed the bots.

MarkW
Reply to  dk_
May 14, 2021 9:04 pm

A bot can be programmed to deny that it is a bot.
Roger, you aren’t half as smart as you think you are.

dk_
Reply to  MarkW
May 14, 2021 9:30 pm

Think?

Newton: [Speaking about the robots] It doesn’t get sad, it doesn’t get happy,
Ben and Newton: [In unison] It just runs programs!

https://www.moviequotedb.com/movies/short-circuit/quote_21173.html

LdB
Reply to  MarkW
May 14, 2021 10:07 pm

He proved that with his why waterways freeze from top effort.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  MarkW
May 15, 2021 4:56 am

If my memory serves right, based on previous posts, ze isn’t even25 % as smart as ze thinks ze is.

whiten
Reply to  dk_
May 15, 2021 2:06 am

*elaborating…elaborating…elaborating….*

Abolition Man
Reply to  Rud Istvan
May 14, 2021 4:13 pm

Rud,
Trying to help little Roger out of his delusional state is a waste of time and keystrokes! He’s trying to prove that his mother was wrong when she told him that stupid, rude and lazy is a bad life strategy!
He’s also seems intent on outdoing William Beebe as far as what depths he’s willing to sink to for his Communist lords and masters. He reminds me of many criminals who spend most of their life trying rob and steal their way to wealth and fortune, when a job and a little perseverance could have gotten them there much freer, faster and happier! Maybe that mental prison he lives in is satisfying somehow!

Rud Istvan
Reply to  Abolition Man
May 14, 2021 4:51 pm

True. But its Friday night after dinner and two good (small) bourbons. Why not have a little ridicule fun per my new climate combat view.

Abolition Man
Reply to  Rud Istvan
May 14, 2021 8:39 pm

Rud,
I agree wholeheartedly; both about the whiskey, and about ridiculing the ridiculous!
If you have a few more bourbons it could get close to a fair fight! Oh, wait, it’s Roger!
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

MarkW
Reply to  Rud Istvan
May 14, 2021 9:02 pm

Austin doesn’t run Texas, but they have a lot of influence over how the grid is run in the area around Austin.

If you weren’t trying so hard to impress yourself, maybe you would stop making such a fool of yourself.

MarkW
Reply to  Rud Istvan
May 14, 2021 9:03 pm

Saying that Austin is deep blue does not mean or even imply that Texas as a whole is blue.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Rud Istvan
May 15, 2021 7:18 am

Austin is definitely Blue. Any city near a big university is going to be leaning Blue, especially nowadays, whether they are in a Red State or a Blue State. I got to hear Willy Nelson play at a small night club in Austin many moons ago. I lived outside Austin for a while way back when.

Oklahoma is about as conservative as it gets, yet in Norman, Oklahoma, right next to Oklahoma University, the town council started a “defund the police” movement connected to people from the University. I think this is the only place this got any traction in Oklahoma.

The conservative people of Norman soon corrected this stupidiy by recalling the council members who were trying to defund the police and replacing them with sane people.

So even in conservative Oklahoma, we have our share of loony leftists.

A local editor of a newspaper described Governor Stitt’s signing of a law banning Critical Race Theory from being taught in Oklahoma schools, as an attempt to lie about history. He thinks if Oklahoma schools don’t teach racism to its student that means the schools are lying about history. The editor is a real leftist, racist idiot.

Stitt didn’t say you couldn’t teach history, he just says you can’t teach white kids to hate themselves and feel guilty for something they had nothing to do with, and you can’t teach minority kids that they are victims of white people and should therefore hate their white classmates. It sounds reasonable to me. Why would anyone advocate teaching racist hated to children?

Children are not born being racists. They have to be taught that. I agree with Governor Stitt, Oklahoma children should not be taught hatred and racism in our schools.

John Dilks
May 14, 2021 3:30 pm

Their energy controllers are all liberal and many are not Texans

MarkW
Reply to  John Dilks
May 14, 2021 9:06 pm

You forget to factor in how the federal regulations distorted the energy market, making things that can’t work not only profitable, but mandatory.

Then again, skipping over any fact that doesn’t support your latest delusions does seem to be your style.

dk_
Reply to  MarkW
May 15, 2021 9:35 am

To be deluded requires a human. Not a factor with a bot. Just brings up more arbitrarily generated fake argument with no reference to facts.
On the other hand, reverse of the Turing test implies that one might not be able to tell a damaged, contentious, or malevolent human from a bot. But since there’s no difference in how one should respond, better to assume a bot.

kwinterkorn
May 14, 2021 3:35 pm

Texas made a mistake. Its back-up carbon-based electricity generation was dependent on ongoing electricity sources that proved vulnerable. A once in a century weather event exposed their error. Knowing Texans, though not being one myself, I’m confident they will fix this problem.

dk_
May 14, 2021 4:11 pm

“Jean Su, energy justice program director with the Center for Biological Diversity”

Isn’t this obviously a work of fiction? Does anyone need to read further?
This is an outrage piece, all feelings, null data. It is supposed to fire up the base and outrage the opponents, nothing more.

Sample anything written, audio, or video about Greta Thunberg — same old deal. If you are not thinking, they are winning.

gringojay
Reply to  dk_
May 14, 2021 5:12 pm

Outrage launch codes do get hacked though.

059E11F9-63BB-46E3-BDD5-86F5DAE12F58.jpeg
TonyL
Reply to  gringojay
May 14, 2021 5:59 pm

gringojay wins the thread!

MarkW
May 14, 2021 4:29 pm

Spending trillions of dollars on the nonsense is labeled, “not trying”.
How much would we have to spend before the activists are satisfied that we are “trying”.

Abolition Man
Reply to  MarkW
May 14, 2021 9:03 pm

Mark,
They won’t be happy until EVERYONE except them are dirt poor, living in a shack or a tent!
It seems the homeless enclaves in all the libtard cities are a model for them to build around! Do homeless, white veterans still enjoy their inequitable privilege? We should ask LeBron!

CD in Wisconsin
May 14, 2021 4:31 pm

“Nobody knows exactly how to get there yet because nobody is trying,” Su said. “We need to actually try, and how we try is by putting on very stern deadlines as close as possible to now.”

**************

I keep wondering how many solar panels would be required to power the entire United States. I found this article from last March. The author, who states that he is a solar engineer, says that we would need about 7.86 billion of them….

https://ecotality.com/how-many-solar-panels-to-power-the-us/

“About 7.86 billion solar panels would be needed to power the U.S. on solar energy. This is derived from the fact that every year the U. S. consumes around 4000 billion kWh of electricity. This means an astounding consumption of 12,000 kWh per year per capita.”

Not surprisingly, he believes the climate alarmist narrative and states at the end of his article that we need to start switching to solar on a huge scale. So how long would it take to manufacture 7.86 billion solar panels? I suspect it would take a very long time, especially if current world production is only in the millions per year. And it would take a heck of a lot of coking coal and sand to do it.

I don’t know if this guy has is calculations right. If he is anywhere near correct, the whole idea of a solar powered U.S. seems insanely irrational to me, especially if those billions of panels need to be replaced every 20-25 years. Anyone out there interested in investing in a solar panel recycling facility?

I am absolutely amazed by how well all of this is being suppressed and ignored.

Derg
Reply to  CD in Wisconsin
May 14, 2021 4:49 pm

What would we do at night?

CD in Wisconsin
Reply to  Derg
May 14, 2021 4:53 pm

You are correct Derg, I forgot about the batteries.

jtom
Reply to  Derg
May 14, 2021 5:20 pm

Some of the power generated would necessarily be stored in a r-e-a-l-l-y big battery. One that would cover entire states, like Illinois, Michigan, and Ohio. We just have to try hard enough to make it happen…

Bryan A
Reply to  jtom
May 14, 2021 8:57 pm

How about Battery Park on Manhattan?

Bryan A
Reply to  Derg
May 14, 2021 8:56 pm

Sleep???

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  Derg
May 15, 2021 5:09 am

We could use candles to light everything. They burn with no CO2 because they were around before the beginning of the industrial revolution.

Rud Istvan
Reply to  CD in Wisconsin
May 14, 2021 4:56 pm

Well, I dunno if his calculation is ‘right’, but almost for sure is wrong. Because even if it includes nighttime, there is no grid scale storage solution. A small intermittency problem. So an another imaginary number solution.

TonyG
Reply to  CD in Wisconsin
May 15, 2021 8:47 am

How much space would 7.86 billion solar panels take up?

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  TonyG
May 15, 2021 9:57 am

Don’t the dark panel surfaces also absorb and re-radiate heat? Wouldn’t that make the planet warmer?

markl
May 14, 2021 4:48 pm

Many, many are trying because the winner of that race will either be an instant billionaire, hold claim to the most important invention in centuries, or control the world. Ask those chasing cold fusion why they continue.

Bryan A
Reply to  David Middleton
May 14, 2021 8:52 pm

Just look at that nearly constant nuclear and how quickly Gas ramped up to backfill for the Unreliables lack of production

Bryan A
Reply to  Bryan A
May 15, 2021 7:18 am

Everything froze sooo……..

dk_
Reply to  Bryan A
May 15, 2021 9:39 am

The bot’f fake argument wants humans to assume that gas goes directly from the wellhead to power plants attached to the grid. At least three in a false assumptions in just this sub-thread. A human might mess up, and accidentally submit an acknowledged fact in such a chain, but to really confuse things requires software.

dk_
Reply to  David Middleton
May 15, 2021 9:41 am

Bots don’t need to eat. If they did, lead would be good for them. Nothing factual comes from that source, automated or humanoid. Any response at all feeds the bot.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  David Middleton
May 15, 2021 7:47 am

“Hey Middleton, upper state New York’s wind turbine farms are not impacted by weather. It’s because they are not cheap like Texans, and have the forethought to install de-icing systems.”

What does New York do when the wind doesn’t blow?

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Tom Abbott
May 15, 2021 10:41 am

Except when it freezes.

Reply to  Tom Abbott
May 15, 2021 3:20 pm

Roger.
No. They just import more expensive Quebec Hydro power via the a dedicated HVDC interconnect. HydroQuebec just opens more dam sluice gates to more generators and sends more abundant water downstream as they send more power to New England. The high cost of the electricity is that there are significant losses in the AC-DC-AC conversions (that New York pays for) but the isolation protects Quebec’s own grid 60 Hz and voltage stability.

Texas does not have that interconnect option from a rapidly dispatchable power. ERCOT was speficially designed to isolate most Texans from the Feds bureaucrats by avoiding interstate connects.

Last edited 5 months ago by joelobryan
Tom Abbott
Reply to  Tom Abbott
May 16, 2021 4:41 am

I see where the Oklahoma legislature has started an inquiy into the causes of the power failures in Oklahoma during the big cold snap that happened in February.

We will get a better picture of what role Oklahoma’s windmills played in the rolling blackouts experienced in Oklahoma and elsewhere in the Southwest Power Pool.

At the time, Oklahoma had about 250 windmills in operation but when the cold weather hit, that number was reduced to 22 operating windmills.

So was it the cold, or the lack of wind that caused Oklahoma’s and the Southwest Power Pool’s windmill problems?

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  David Middleton
May 15, 2021 9:50 am

Again, we’re constantly told the Earth is on fire, why would anyone make plans for a deep freeze?

Sara
May 14, 2021 7:46 pm

If Those People agree to give up all modern conveniences like their electronic toys and communications junk, and live the life my grandmothers’ families lived (or even earlier), I am perfectly willing to listen to these clowns. I could far more easily cook food in a Rumford fireplace with a side oven than any of them could ever even think about producing in their inept, and not real bright (but bizzare) lives. I can manage quite well, and they can empty the night jars (for when you needed to relieve yourself at night), clean up the ashes from the kitchen open fireplace (for cooking and baking) and put them in the bin with dirt and veg peelings (for the garden), and above all else, learn how to prepare the icehouse for storing ice cut from the local pond over the winter.

If they can do all that without hurting their pinkies, I will be surprised (only surprised, nothing else) but I still won’t pay much attention to anything they have to say.

Just do us all a favor and take their electronic gadgets away from them for a couple of weeks. See just how addicted they are to that crap.

Abolition Man
Reply to  Sara
May 14, 2021 9:11 pm

Sara,
Why are you such a meeeanie! How can they possibly continue saving the world from destruction without their phones and devices!
Without a 24/7 connection to the Internet they wouldn’t know what to say or think!

Sara
Reply to  Abolition Man
May 15, 2021 5:14 am

So they are addicts, right??? (GIgglesnortttt!!) i am sorely tempted (sometimes) to return to a land line and leave the other stuff in a shoebox where it belongs. Really, I do find that I make very few phone calls and do mostly text messaging. And the phone camera? Cannot beat my Nikon equipment. Simply can’t.
Having to carry that obnoxious thing around, when I used to just pocket my little flip phone does make me wish for them there Good Old Days. So if that makes me a meanie, I will claim that “title” with pride and giggle while I’m at it.
Thank you!!!

Abolition Man
Reply to  Sara
May 15, 2021 4:06 pm

Your very welcome!
Thank you for allowing me the euphoria of eliciting the highly prized gigglesnort!
I will mark this day on the calendar, and then reminisce about the sound of oldtime rotary phones for a while!

H. D. Hoese
May 14, 2021 7:47 pm

I just talked to two UT students who, without any questioning or leading, said how upset they were with the bureaucracy over covid. They still, as of last week, have shut the public entirely and students and faculty mostly out of libraries for over a year. Based on what I know so far it is all based on bad (none?) medical advice in a university run by an incompetent interim president. It would help most universities to severely trim their administrative staff, from the top down. Athletics seems mostly open.

Also I read somewhere that one root cause of the grid problem was ERCOTs failure to consider a long enough database to base their backup plan. Did not cover a realistic severe winter period, last one in 1989, had two that year, still not going away statistically. Of course the windmills died, cause only known for centuries. It is beyond stupid.

MarkW
May 14, 2021 9:00 pm

It really does amaze me how hard your average liberal works to avoid any contact with reality.
Roger, perhaps you aren’t from this planet and aren’t aware of the concept of federalism.
Because of that, the federal government has a lot of say in how states are run.
It was the EPA and other federal regulators that forced Texas to install so many wind turbines and solar panels.
During an unusually extreme cold snap, both wind and solar failed almost completely.
Gas almost managed to keep up, but because federal regulations forced the change in how the pumps that kept pressure in the pipelines up, they weren’t able to keep up with demand.

It wasn’t the Texans who were stupid, it was your beloved federal bureaucrats who created that problem.

dk_
Reply to  MarkW
May 14, 2021 9:36 pm

Mark. It just runs programs. Anything that looks like a successful off topic argument is a RogBot win. It’s algorithms are adjusted accordingly. Don’t feed the Bot. Anything written back to the bot should look superficially like complete agreement or be quoted from Lewis Carrol, Jack Kerouac, or lyrics from the Doors. Making sense is a waste of your time. Better, don’t respond at all.

PCman999
May 15, 2021 1:04 am

I guess she thinks a carbon tax will help the poor. Rich people don’t even notice, especially those posers who bought a subsidized electric luxury car or who paid to get solar panels on the roof of their huge houses and get paid for every kWh by the higher rates that the poor struggle with, like in Germany where so many have been cut-off from the grid because they can’t afford to subsidize the green crap.

pochas94
May 15, 2021 5:46 am

Some of us have a deep need to look down on the rest of us, to see us suffer abject poverty while they rise to the top.

Tom Abbott
May 15, 2021 6:17 am

From the article: ““When you want to get to the heart of racism and inequalities, the tentacles in our energy system are very deep,” Su said.”

People of Color buy and use gasoline, too. They are not refused a purchase based on the color of their skin. There are equal rights at the gas station.

These lunatics on the Left see racism everywhere and want us to see it, too. No. I’m a resident of Realville and I don’t see what you see. What I see are a bunch of leftist lunatics seeing racism everywhere because it fits in with their delusional vision of the world.

It must be extremely stressful to be a True Believer Leftist. Their vision of the world they live in is a horrible vision. We know that because they describe their delusional world to us all the time, like this author does here.

Fortunately, this delusional,scary world is only in *their* minds. The rest of us are calm, cool and collected in comparison.

Abolition Man
Reply to  Tom Abbott
May 15, 2021 4:16 pm

Tom,
The simplest explanation for why they see racism everywhere is projection! They know racism is bad, so they deny that they have any. Only the Others can be the horrible, evil creatures we despise!
The saddest part is that America was getting really close to being a post racial society, but two terms of Obummer and the nonstop attempts to paint Trump as a racist have pushed us back to the 1950s or 60s in race relations!

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Abolition Man
May 16, 2021 4:46 am

“The saddest part is that America was getting really close to being a post racial society, but two terms of Obummer and the nonstop attempts to paint Trump as a racist have pushed us back to the 1950s or 60s in race relations!”

I agree with that. The radical Democrats are bound and determined to separate all of us into little groups so they can pit each group against the other.

One difference now: Black conservatives are starting to speak out and condemn the racist Democrats. The Leftwing Media ridicules them when the do, but more and more of them are speaking up. They are not deterred or discouraged and we should not be either.

Tom Abbott
May 15, 2021 7:04 am

“You are correct Mr. Middleton, you can’t fix (Texas) stupid.”

That will depend on whether Texas adds additional windmills to their grid without adeqate backup.

That would be REAL stupid.

Walter Sobchak
May 15, 2021 9:54 am

“Nobody knows exactly how to get there yet because nobody is trying. We need to actually try, and how we try is by putting on very stern deadlines as close as possible to now.”
And if we really try, we will have the best yearbook ever!

Gunga Din
May 15, 2021 9:59 am

“Nobody knows exactly how to get there yet because nobody is trying,” Su said. “We need to actually try, and how we try is by putting on very stern deadlines as close as possible to now.”

I thought AOC knew how to get there?
Or maybe she just needs a stern deadline? (Maybe 12 years?)
Or maybe she just got distracted by something shiny and needs a stern word from Su?
“Enough’s enough, AOC! Put down that garbage disposal manual and TRY HARDER!!”

May 15, 2021 10:23 am

So gone woke retarded has the Left become that if CBD didn’t have a moron like Jean Su writing such idiocy, then they’d have to hire one. Which is how she probably got her job and title Energy Justice Program Director. Anything these days with the word “justice” added you just know from the start it is smelly crapola with a heavy dose of Marxism.

Beta Blocker
May 15, 2021 10:26 am

If we take President Biden’s target of a 50% reduction in America’s carbon emissions by 2030 as an intermediate goal towards a carbon free energy future, we do in fact know how to get there.

It is impossible to build enough wind, solar, and nuclear by 2030 to reach the 50% GHG reduction goal. So it must be done through a combination of strictly enforced energy conservation measures dictated by the central government, plus a universal carbon pricing mechanism of some kind which greatly increases the cost of all forms of energy for all energy consumers.

Reaching the intermediate goal of 50% by 2030 requires that Americans consume roughly half as much energy in 2030 as we do today in 2021.

Doubling or even tripling the price of energy, and directly constraining the supply of energy through a carbon fuel rationing scheme of some kind, can in theory allow us to reach Biden’s target — assuming the American public is willing to accept the consequences of these highly coercive energy conservation measures.

Moreover, it is within the existing power of the Executive Branch to unilaterally raise the price of fossil fuel energy through a system of carbon pollution fines which is the functional equivalent of a legislated tax on carbon, and to impose a program of carbon fuel rationing through the formal declaration of a carbon pollution emergency.

Biden will spend trillions of dollars building a green energy infrastructure as his advertised means of reaching a 50% reduction by 2030. But will he take all those actions needed to guarantee that 50% reduction? So far, he has shown no sign he is willing to do what actually must be done to reach his stated goal.

Last edited 5 months ago by Beta Blocker
griff
Reply to  Beta Blocker
May 16, 2021 9:16 am

The UK already achieved a 51% reduction on 1990 CO2 levels, simply by shutting down coal power plants and more wind power. Nobody in the UK noticed any effect on standard of living, lifestyle etc

Joel Snider
May 15, 2021 12:51 pm

Left Wing Activists Demand Americans Freeze in the Dark… Because?
Well, the real answer is self-righteous hatred.

tommyboy
May 16, 2021 1:45 pm

Jean Su, energy justice program director
With this title you know this person is going to be a pain in the a**

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