The myth (and phony math) of ‘green’ jobs

Governments are killing real jobs and conning us about ‘millions of well-paid green jobs’ 

Duggan Flanakin

“Fool me once,” Stephen King wrote, “shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times, shame on both of us.” His adage certainly applies to the myth (and fake math) of green jobs. 

During the 2020 election campaign, Joe Biden asserted that more than 3 million Americans are already “employed in the clean energy economy.” He then boasted that, “if executed strategically, our response to climate change can create more than 10 million well-paying jobs in the United States that will grow a stronger, more inclusive middle class … and not just in cities along the coasts.”

That would make Joe twice as boastful as his former boss, who promised the 2009 $787 billion stimulus package would create “over five million” green jobs. Four years later, the Brookings Institution reported that, “of the nearly 2.7 million ‘green jobs’ [the Obama-Biden Administration] identifies, most were bus drivers, sewage workers and other types of work that don’t fit the ‘green jobs of the future’” description. 

Energy analyst David Blackmon later reported that Obama’s own Department of Labor acknowledged the initial failure to launch. DOL’s September 2011 report, “Recovery Act: Slow pace placing workers into jobs jeopardizes employment goals of the Green Jobs Program,” noted that only a third of the allocated funding had been spent; a fifth of the “degrees” and “certifications” went to people with a single day of training; and half of the “graduates” had five or fewer days of training. Just 2% of program participants held their jobs for at least six months. 

The Bureau of Labor Statistics counted oil industry lobbyists as holding “green” jobs! The septic tank and portable toilet servicing industry had 33 times more “green” jobs than solar electric utilities. The BLS had to admit in a June 2012 report, “Green Technologies and Practices – August 2011,” that they could identify only 854,700 “green” jobs, including janitors and cleaners

What a sham! Shame on them for trying to con us. 

David Kreutzer pointed out in a Heritage Foundation report that steel workers had the most “green” industrial jobs. Why? Most U.S. steel is recycled scrap, and some steel gets used in making wind turbines. The next largest groups were bus drivers, waste collectors and used-merchandise store employees – followed finally by engineering and architectural services. The much hated nuclear industry accounted for over 80% of the 44,000 “green” electric utility jobs. There were five times as many “green” jobs in social advocacy (environmentalist group lobbyists) as in renewable electric power.

Ah, but that was then – and this is now, you say. Right.  

In January, the Associated Press reported on “Biden’s fuzzy math” regarding his claim of creating 1 million new auto industry jobs – even if he actually replaces the 650,000-government vehicle fleet with electric cars and installs 500,000 new EV charging stations – all at taxpayer expense. Theoretically, a huge government buying program will lower EV costs, and the myriad of charging stations will lessen fears of being stuck in a hurricane evacuation in a vehicle you cannot quickly gas up. Theoretically. 

But hold on! Every electric vehicle job will likely come at the expense of a gasoline-engine vehicle job, and every EV charging station will diminish jobs in pipeline, refining, gasoline retail, gasoline delivery, and other sectors. The AP story adds that industry analysts and the United Auto Workers union agree that EV manufacturing will likely mean fewer automotive jobs. One reason is that EVs have far fewer parts and are simpler to build, thus require fewer workers, and often just need a new $6,000 battery module. Another is that battery manufacturing is easily automated. But that is hardly the whole story. 

Back in 2019, while losing over a fifth of its U.S. market share of sales over a 3-year period, General Motors admitted it already employed more non-union auto workers in China than union workers in the USA. The harsh reality is that there are 10 times more electric vehicle battery manufacturing facilities in Asia than in all of North America. Maybe Jinping Joe Biden is talking about the number of Chinese “green” jobs. Especially child and near-slave labor in China’s mines and processing plants. 

Other fact checkers have also found Biden Administration green jobs claims are “mostly false.”

Electric vehicles are just part of the Green New Biden Deal. Surrendering our economy to the Paris climate accords and its draconian environmental restraints is another. Abandoning oil, gas and coal – and very likely nuclear energy – and all the jobs those industries create is a third. Mr. Biden is merely following Germany and other European Union countries down the primrose path to economic suicide. 

According to Deutsche Bank, climate policy regulation of Germany’s automotive sector is triggering “the biggest structural break in the industry in decades.” A bank report explains that strict carbon dioxide limits for new passenger cars in the EU for 2021 and 2030 are forcing manufacturers to prematurely switch to higher cost electric vehicles. The resultant price increases, the bank predicts, will have a very negative effect on future employment in the Germany auto industry.

One reason is that the EU’s CO2 limits for passenger cars and subsidies for electric vehicles are “extremely inefficient [expensive] and hardly effective instruments” to achieve emission reduction in the transport sector. While government incentives and mandates may push people toward buying government-favored vehicles, radical climate and energy policies decrease investment in energy-intensive sectors such as metals and chemicals. This will further increase the cost of new German cars.

Despite the push for green energy and electric vehicles, the German Trade Union Association reports that the number of “green” jobs in the German renewables sector had fallen from 300,000 in 2011 to just 150,000 in 2018. Many of these lost jobs were due to the collapse of Germany’s solar power industry, as companies were forced out of business by Chinese manufacturers that undercut German prices – and had much easier access to raw materials. 

The track record for American renewable industry jobs vis-à-vis Chinese competition has mimicked the German experience. A primary reason is China’s near-monopoly on rare-earth metals essential for the Green revolution. Despite these realities, Biden “climate envoy” John Kerry recently said displaced American oil and gas workers can simply and easily go to work making solar panels. 

Energy economist Tilak Doshi agrees the West’s fascination with renewables-only de-carbonization, and ultimately de-industrialization, is a recipe for economic suicide. He notes that Germany’s “green” world involves behemoth wind turbines with blades made of petroleum-based, fiberglass-reinforced resins; motors built with iron and rare earths extracted, processed and smelted using fossil fuels; concrete that also requires fossil fuels; and factories run on coal and natural gas. Solar panels have the same pedigree. 

The turbines and panels are installed in forests, grasslands, farmlands and coastal areas, where they destroy scenic vistas and wildlife habitats. Turbine blades kill endangered birds and bats. 

The result of this save-the-planet zeal? Germany has a burgeoning 17% poverty rate, thanks largely to its shutdown of reliable nuclear and fossil fuel power plants and the resultant skyrocketing electricity prices for homes, factories, businesses and hospitals over the past 15 years. 

Back in the USA, California operates the world’s fifth largest economy by importing most of its crude oil from overseas (despite massive in-state reserves) and a third of its electricity from other states (also for political expediency). As a result, Californians now pay 60% more than the national average for residential, commercial and industrial electricity, while enduring frequent rolling blackouts due to pricey weather-dependent energy and pathetic forest management. People and industries are fleeing the state.

And Team Biden-Harris (Harris-Biden?) wants to turn the rest of the United States into California!

Duggan Flanakin is director of policy research at the Committee For A Constructive Tomorrow (www.CFACT.org

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Pauleta
February 22, 2021 10:09 am

Math is racist.

Sage
Reply to  Pauleta
February 22, 2021 11:07 am

I would not want to drive over a bridge designed with “non-racist math.”

DonM
Reply to  Sage
February 22, 2021 12:07 pm

http://picayune.uclick.com/comics/ch/1986/ch861126.gif

If I had a choice, this is how I would design them.
Not racist in any way at all.

Last edited 8 months ago by DonM
Joe Crawford
Reply to  DonM
February 23, 2021 8:10 am

Sometimes that procedure is used to lower the load limit :<)

DonM
Reply to  Joe Crawford
February 24, 2021 10:49 am

I’ve used the first few iterations of that procedure, and measured deflections, to make the final guess.

MarkW
Reply to  Pauleta
February 22, 2021 11:17 am

I was reading a report a few weeks ago. Some math prof in one of the “major” universities has put out a paper in which he claims that insisting that there is only one right answer to a math problem is proof of white supremacism.
Apparently demanding that students “show their work” is also proof of white supremacism.

n.n
Reply to  MarkW
February 22, 2021 11:52 am

1+1 “=” (politically congruent) 3

DonM
Reply to  MarkW
February 22, 2021 12:22 pm

y = x^2 – 4x + 4 (very simple one; if y = 0, solve for x …)

Y = cosx; (same deal, if y = 0 … how many right answers for x?

So, the premise that there is always only right answer is wrong, and if Prof HUA uses that premise to forward it’s agenda, it is incompetent as well as a liar.

Stevek
Reply to  MarkW
February 22, 2021 1:50 pm

One thing is that I have never been big fan of show your work. I think if answer is correct then that is it. The problem with show your work is sometimes professors try to impose their way of doing things on you, even though you way is mathematically correct.

Tim Gorman
Reply to  Stevek
February 22, 2021 2:44 pm

If you just show the answer then how does anyone know you didn’t just guess or copy from someone else?

George Daddis
Reply to  Stevek
February 22, 2021 3:47 pm

If you want a professional job in any of the Engineering disciplines you’d better get used to showing your work. Someone will be checking to make sure your calculations that your proposed bridge is safe.

Monna Manhas
Reply to  George Daddis
February 22, 2021 5:04 pm

Agreed, George. My Dad was an engineer. He would agree too.

LdB
Reply to  Stevek
February 22, 2021 5:36 pm

Toughen up Princess in STEM subjects it’s put up or shut up and we don’t care that you don’t like it you don’t get a vote.

Joe Crawford
Reply to  Stevek
February 23, 2021 8:36 am

Had a physics Prof that flunked me on a mid-term. I had gotten all the right answers but didn’t work one of the 5 problems the way the book he had been teaching for 20 years had. I proved his book wrong in class but he still wouldn’t change my grade. Both my freshman physics Prof and the department Dean said I had worked it correctly but they couldn’t get involved. So, I gave him back the paper, told him to stuffit where the sun don’t shine and had to wait until for someone else to taught the course. Got an A that time.

Tsk Tsk
Reply to  MarkW
February 22, 2021 4:15 pm
TonyG
Reply to  MarkW
February 23, 2021 11:07 am
n.n
Reply to  Pauleta
February 22, 2021 11:55 am

Math exercises liberal license to indulge diversity [dogma] (i.e. color judgments). and inclusive as in Rainbow exclusion of black, brown, and featuring a gay, peculiar pride (i.e. self-esteem, not lions, lionesses, and their cubs) in the shredded remains of white.

Kreng
Reply to  Pauleta
March 1, 2021 10:43 am

Bet the people who think math is racist insist their paychecks are calculated the nasty ole white way.

John Ronald Brodman
February 22, 2021 10:10 am

No problem! Put 10 million people on treadmills connected to generators. They might make a few bucks a day if ther’re in good shape.

Ian W
Reply to  John Ronald Brodman
February 22, 2021 10:23 am

It will cost a little more than that with the $15/hr min wage so $120/day – so $1.2B

n.n
Reply to  Ian W
February 22, 2021 12:02 pm

$15 minimum wage is a green target and cover-up to sustain progressive prices and policies that are disjointed from market conditions, while matched with single/central/monopolistic practices that share/shift excessive pricing constructs.

n.n
Reply to  John Ronald Brodman
February 22, 2021 11:58 am

The reduction in medical care services, products, and social adventurism alone would be a remarkable reform that enables productive allocation of life and resources.

4kx3
Reply to  John Ronald Brodman
February 22, 2021 12:41 pm

On a sustained basis you might get 1 kwh per two hours of work.

Brent C
Reply to  4kx3
February 22, 2021 1:39 pm

500W/hr sustained output from a human? That’s impressive! That’s Tour de France-level fitness…

Meab
Reply to  4kx3
February 23, 2021 8:37 am

More like 1 kWh per 4 hours. The grinders (trained athletes) on America Cup yachts sustain about 300 watts.

Stuart Lynne
February 22, 2021 10:11 am

It is reasonable to observe that jobs require money. Anytime someone says new jobs will be created, it follows that money will be required to fund those jobs.

The money can come from getting rid of old jobs or charging more so that more money is available for the new jobs.

MarkW
Reply to  Stuart Lynne
February 22, 2021 11:18 am

If they charge more, customers will buy less. So even charging more results in fewer jobs.

George Daddis
Reply to  Stuart Lynne
February 22, 2021 3:54 pm

My favorite Progressive logic fail is their argument that replacing the same amount of fossil fueled energy with wind and solar will create “x’ times more jobs. They present that as a benefit. (I won’t insult this audience with an explanation of the fallacy.)

“x’ of course is a variable that is a function of both the intelligence and fervor of the activist.

Doonman
Reply to  Stuart Lynne
February 23, 2021 11:01 am

Money used to come from hard work by extracting something of value from the ground. Recently, money came from putting ink on paper and then getting everyone to agree that it sure looks like money. In the future, all money will come from digital blockchain encoded mRNA injected at birth.

February 22, 2021 10:18 am

Those millions of new ‘green’ jobs are going to China and India. Without government subsidies, Germany and Australia have been unable to compete with the “green’ manufacturing in China and India, and neither will America.
Summary: China and India not only control the supply chain of materials for solar panels, wind turbines, and EV batteries, but also have the least stringent environmental controls for the mining of those materials, and minimal labor laws for their low-cost labor supply. Developed countries that wish to go green at any cost are unable to compete with manufacturing in China and India.

Ian W
Reply to  Ronald Stein
February 22, 2021 10:32 am

Following on from that if the ‘Green Developed Countries’ with legal requirements to be ‘green’ need to replace a wind generator – they cannot create them internally, and have to go to China. The offshore wind generators have a startlingly short service life.

What if China says no?
– or charges 1000% tariff?
– or demands the ‘president’ comes and asks personally and publicly says ‘please’?

fred250
Reply to  Ian W
February 22, 2021 12:18 pm

There is no such thing as a “Green™” wind turbine.

The manufacture of them is FAR MORE POLLUTING than building and using a coal fired power station.

Spetzer86
February 22, 2021 10:38 am

Anytime someone talks about all the green energy jobs that will be added, you’ve got to understand these jobs will provide something we already have – electricity. If more people are being paid to provide the same service, costs must go up. If you’re paying more for something that is less reliable, you’re getting screwed. Together, it just means everyone pays more for less.

DonM
Reply to  Spetzer86
February 22, 2021 12:29 pm

break a window, create a demand, and a job.

break lots of windows and create lots of jobs.

(that’s probably what the good antifa folks are doing in Portland … just trying to create lots of well paying jobs)

George Daddis
Reply to  Spetzer86
February 22, 2021 3:57 pm

Sorry, I posted without reading your contribution.
The remarkable thing is how many Americans accept that truth as a benefit of the GND.

Sage
February 22, 2021 10:42 am

The Keystone Pipeline Cancellation EO, signed on 20 Jan 21, caused an immediate loss of 1000 jobs, with another 10K losses occurring in the ensuing weeks. Look at the table below. The average pipeline worker compensation is (was) 62,609/yr. The EO banning oil endeavors on federal lands, signed on 27 Jan 21, will cause oil and gas sector job losses. Those oil field workers earned an average salary of $63,65/yr. Laid off pipe line and oil field workers can now take jobs as solar installers at an average salary of $42,341/yr. The top yearly pay for pipeline and oil field workers is (was) $131K and $101K. A solar installer has a top yearly pay of $55K.

Then again, if you are lucky enough to have a solar panel factory built in your home town, there will be jobs building solar panels. Has anyone seen high tech assembly line work that paid more than around 1.5 times minimum wage? I’m not talking about the quality assurance, testing, or re-work positions that are around 5% of the factory floor. Ninety to ninety five percent of those jobs building solar panels, consist of: place sub assembly A in slot B, connect the red wire to terminal C, connect the blue wire … . Wash. Rinse. Repeat. These jobs building solar panels have a national average salary of $34,546/yr., with a top pay of $46,000/yr. Those small number of technical positions fare better; with an average yearly salary of $42,626, and a ceiling of $69,000. 

It’s good to see that anyone losing a job due the Climate Change Mitigation policies can pursue alternatives in addition to, “Learn to code,” or “Clearing land mines.”

— Pipeline Worker —
National Average
$62,609 /yr. = $30.10/hr.

25th Percentile – $27,000/yr.
75th Percentile – $87,500/yr.
90th Percentile – $131,000/yr.
https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Pipeline-Worker-Salary

— 0il Field Worker —
National Average
$63,654 /yr. = $30.60/hr.

25th Percentile – $ 38,500/yr.
75th Percentile – $84,500/yr.
90th Percentile – $101,000/yr.
https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/oilfield-Salary

— Solar Installer —
National Average
$42,341/yr. = 20.36/hr.

25th Percentile – $33,500/yr.
75th Percentile – $46,000/yr.
90th Percentile – $55,000/yr.
https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Solar-Installer-Salary

— Solar Panel Assembly —
National Average
$34,546/yr. = $16.61/hr.

25th Percentile – $27,000/yr.
75th Percentile – $39,750/yr.
90th Percentile – $46,000/yr.
https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/solar-panel-assembly-Salary

— Solar Panel Technical Assembly —
National Average
$42,626/yr. = $20.49/hr.

25th Percentile – $28,500/yr.
75th Percentile – $55,500/yr.
90th Percentile – $69,000/yr.
https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/solar-panel-technical-assembly-Salary

MarkW
Reply to  Sage
February 22, 2021 11:22 am

Bernie Sanders is going to fix that. He’s going to reset the minimum wage to $15/hr. No doubt he will set it higher if poverty fails to decrease.

I’ve seen estimates that a $15/hr minimum wage is going to cause the loss of 1.4 million jobs. Personally, I have no doubt that this is just the short term number, the long term number is going to be at least 10 times that number.

It takes time to design, build and install all the robots that are going to be replacing these workers.

starzmom
Reply to  MarkW
February 22, 2021 2:18 pm

Building all those robots will happen in China as well, so there won’t be any jobs created in the robot business either..

Doonman
Reply to  MarkW
February 23, 2021 11:07 am

The real minimum wage is zero.

Tim Gorman
Reply to  Sage
February 22, 2021 12:31 pm

Where in the US do we actually have anyone *manufacturing* solar panels as opposed to assembling solar panels manufactured in China. I can only find one and most of its 5000 employees are overseas, not in the US.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Tim Gorman
February 23, 2021 7:33 am

They showed an American company making solar panels in the U.S. on tv this morning. It looked like a small company, although the owner said they were expanding. He also said they were dependent on China to supply them.

I also saw one report claiming that the Chicoms were threatening the rare earth supply line to the U.S.

Don’t worry, we have “the Big Guy” in charge here in the U.S. He will fix all these problems. He’s familiar with doing business with the Chicoms.

Tim Gorman
Reply to  Tom Abbott
February 23, 2021 9:34 am

“Making” or “assembling”? Making solar panels isn’t something you can do in a small warehouse with a few people. Assembling is.

If they were dependent on China then they weren’t making the actual panels. They were assembling panels from China into assemblies that can be mounted.

Assembly workers are a dime a dozen and worth about the same.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Tim Gorman
February 24, 2021 7:06 am

I agree with your take on the subject. They are assembling.

Right-Handed Shark
February 22, 2021 10:50 am

I’ve said this before.. someone needs to keep those millions of PV panels clean. Pollen in the spring and summer, frost and snow in the winter, dust and bird poop at all times of year. It all reduces the “efficiency” of the panels, those suckers need to be cleaned 3 or 4 times a day. There’s your “green jobs”.

MarkW
Reply to  Right-Handed Shark
February 22, 2021 11:23 am

How much will solar power cost when you have to pay all those bird poop scrapers $15/hr?

hiskorr
Reply to  MarkW
February 22, 2021 6:48 pm

Don’t worry about bird poop. The windmills will have killed all the birds.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  MarkW
February 23, 2021 7:58 am

I have questions about the minimum wage. Here’s the rule:

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/minimum-wage/faq

“To whom does the minimum wage apply?
The minimum wage law (the FLSA) applies to employees of enterprises that have annual gross volume of sales or business done of at least $500,000. It also applies to employees of smaller firms if the employees are engaged in interstate commerce or in the production of goods for commerce, such as employees who work in transportation or communications or who regularly use the mails or telephones for interstate communications.

Other persons, such as guards, janitors, and maintenance employees who perform duties which are closely related and directly essential to such interstate activities are also covered by the FLSA. It also applies to employees of federal, state or local government agencies, hospitals and schools, and it generally applies to domestic workers.
The FLSA contains a number of exemptions from the minimum wage that may apply to some workers.”

The way I read this, restaurants with annual gross volume of sales or business done of less than $500,000 are exempt from the minimum wage. Is that correct? There doesn’t seem to be any interstate commerce involved with restaurant operation.

The link also says small farms are exempt from the minimum wage rule.

Some of the other exemptions are humorous.

Tim Gorman
Reply to  Tom Abbott
February 23, 2021 9:41 am

All businesses today are engaged in interstate commerce. Including restaurants unless they grow *all* their food locally. Even then they could be classified as being in interstate commerce. Go read Wickard v. Filburn. According to the Supreme Court if you grow wheat on your farm solely for you own use you are still impacting interstate commerce and are subject to federal regulation. (if you didn’t grow the wheat you would have to buy it and wheat is an interstate commodity).

Even a diner with three employees could potentially be considered as being in interstate commerce if an over-the-road trucker stops there to eat!

MarkW
Reply to  Tim Gorman
February 23, 2021 9:50 am

I’ve heard legal scholars refer to the commerce clause as the clause that ate the constitution.
Based on the expansive interpretations of that clause, there are no limits to federal powers. Regardless of what the rest of the constitution may say.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  MarkW
February 24, 2021 7:08 am

So it seems.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Tim Gorman
February 24, 2021 7:08 am

So there’s no getting around it for the poor, very small businesses.

Everything is interstate commerce. That way the Feds can stick their noses in everything.

MarkW
Reply to  Tom Abbott
February 23, 2021 9:49 am

According to the courts, if a single customer of that restaurant is engaged in interstate travel, then the restaurant is engaged in interstate commerce.
Back in the 30’s there was a case where the courts ruled that a farmer that was growing corn to feed his own cattle, was engaged in interstate commerce.
According to the logic of the courts, if the farmer hadn’t grown his own corn, he would have had to purchase that corn. Some of the corn he would have purchased might have crossed state lines. So the farmer, growing his own corn had impacted potential interstate commerce. Thus the farmer was obligated to follow all federal regulations.

Face it, breathing is an act of interstate commerce these days.

Paul C
Reply to  Right-Handed Shark
February 22, 2021 4:54 pm

But we have birdmills to eliminate the bird poop problem. Kills two birds with one blade, anyway. We don’t want birds competing for human food. Some of those birds can eat their own weight in insects. The birdmills can even generate some electricity if it isn’t too cold.

fretslider
February 22, 2021 10:56 am

The UK is outsourcing manufacturing to China Keeps the emissions down you see

The so-called green jobs will be fitting insulation and cladding etc

Last edited 8 months ago by fretslider
February 22, 2021 11:06 am

Because of the cold, more than 23 electro bus couldn’t drive in Berlin, at least.
Heating was the biggest problem, because the heating uses the same battery. Otherwhere, heatings use diesel, but as the target is zero emission, that’s not a solution.

And concernig the (green) jobs as driver on E-bus, it’s only a half day job, because of the limited distances these bus are able to drive.

The costs for the bus was about 2 billion €

Last edited 8 months ago by Krishna Gans
Tom Abbott
Reply to  Krishna Gans
February 23, 2021 8:04 am

Insanity based on unsubstantiated claims about the Earth’s climate and CO2.

Peta of Newark
February 22, 2021 11:14 am

A perfect realisation of the Broken Window Fallacy.

HOW can they not realise that?
Maybe they do and are not ‘letting on

February 22, 2021 11:35 am

Cleaning solar panels is a very highly skilled and endless job.

February 22, 2021 11:41 am

It’s not easy being green – Kermit said it…so just pretend to be green….build one windmill and one solar panel and say we are trying…trying to do more but stick to natural gas and coal and try to quickly develop MSRs…yeah that’s the way. Did you know that overnight an MSR could give you almost free water desalinization and/or hydrogen production?…or make some cheap steel?

Last edited 8 months ago by Anti_griff
Joseph Zorzin
February 22, 2021 11:48 am

An 18 acre solar “farm” near my ‘hood in 2012 in north central Mass. – built by 40 licensed electricians- took about 6-7 weeks- then they were gone. Jobs where you move around a lot- and often have gaps between jobs aren’t great jobs. Now I notice many of those panels, built in China, are being replaced after only 8-9 years.

n.n
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
February 22, 2021 12:10 pm

Greenback farms displacing farms and [grazing] fields, too.

john
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
February 22, 2021 1:14 pm

I know a lot of great electricians in Ma who avoid solar work. Low pay and bs.. I’m a retired lineman (Transmission) and now work as a lowly electrician. I wont touch solar or wind.. Pembroke area….

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  john
February 23, 2021 3:29 am

I watched the entire project, daily. Seemed boring to install 14,000 panels. I made a rank amateur video of the entire job (back in 2012): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYYVZKgusU4&t=78s

I was surprised that they’d have electicians installing panels. Perhaps it was due to some state law- or to meet requirements for union work? I wouldn’t be surprised in this- the most politically correct state in America, yes- even more than CA.

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
February 23, 2021 7:02 am

Electrical codes require module wiring to be done by licensed electricians. Mounting them into racks or frames does not require a license.

Tim Gorman
Reply to  Carlo, Monte
February 23, 2021 9:31 am

Be “done” by licensed electricians or just “supervised” by licensed electricians?

Kit P
February 22, 2021 11:53 am

When the nuclear plant I worked in California closed, about a 1000 jobs went away. I started retraining myself for one of the ‘green jobs’. I did work on Yucca Mountain but that was mostly based on nuclear experience.

What I learned when Clinton was POTUS was that the ‘green jobs’ were all scams.

As luck would have it, when Obama became POTUS I had a good job as a design engineer in ‘new reactors’. The first thing Obama did was violate environmental regulations by stipping work on the spent fuel repository.

That is not just my opinion. The courts told Obama that he must follow environmental laws just like any CEO.

There is a simple reason ‘green jobs’ can not be created. The work is already done. The air and water is already clean. It is just a case of not going backwards with polluting scams like wind and solar.

Rud Istvan
February 22, 2021 12:00 pm

The way I look at it, talk is cheap but actions are dear.

ERCOT was a wakeup call and a blow to GND; why the left is spinning so hard that it wasn’t wind when that is provably what started the failure cascade.

Now we have GM (everywhere) and Ford (Europe) going electric. News. There is not enough cobalt and lithium carbonate in the world for that to ever be physically possible, let alone the cost and range issues of EV’s. GM brags that its new cathode chemistry reduces cobalt 75%, substituting mainly nickel. Even IF true (dunno) if they ramp EV 75% from its present very small base they have’t solved anything concerning cobalt.

A little bit of all this GND stuff is doable. But not a lot. It will take a few more major train wrecks as penetration continues to increase for the general public to wake up. California is already a mess with its train to nowhere, its unrealistic future GND laws, and its population exodus except for illegal aliens. UK is very likely to have a Texas event one of these winters and a lot more people will die. Germany has already crippled its economy via Energiewende (its version of GND).

GND and climate change would make nice additions to that old gem ‘Madness of Crowds’. And they will end no different than South Seas Company and Dutch tulip bulb mania centuries ago.

Gerald Machnee
Reply to  Rud Istvan
February 22, 2021 12:41 pm

My son suggested that the main reason for those companies going electric is that it will be easier to say you are zero carbon. Ford and GM know that going “green” will not save the planet and they also know that the planet is not in danger from warming. It is all about money. The easiest way to make it. They will worry about blackouts later. Once the car is out of the sales lot it is the owner’s problem if there is no power.

commieBob
February 22, 2021 12:09 pm

We don’t have to speculate or use computer models or anything like that. We have experience to guide us. For instance, in Spain green programs destroyed 2.2 jobs in the regular economy for every green job created. link

markl
February 22, 2021 12:11 pm

Control the media and you control the narrative. You’ll never find out when the narrative doesn’t match reality ….. unless you’re one of those unemployed by the narrative and that number is growing by the day and impossible to hide.

john
February 22, 2021 1:02 pm

Here is the truth…

8BDE71C4-3A04-4D58-89B6-5CDFC83E0E68.jpeg
john
February 22, 2021 1:04 pm

Liberty is leaving

37FEB7AE-B920-49DB-BFE7-139F4143B347.jpeg
B Clarke
February 22, 2021 1:17 pm

” down the primrose path to economic suicide ”

We are already a long way down the path to economic suicide ,arguably there is already no path back,destroy the power generation system, you imprison and make subservient whole populations, food production ( in the UK at least) is already going down the same mindless route.
” the great reset” this is were I believe we as western nations are going to end up, vast amounts of individual populations being rationed with power and food, we already see migrants subservient to state aid, = guaranteed votes, smart meters being increasingly pushed on populations to control power distribution because green energy will fail to deliver the power we now take for granted.

Oldseadog
February 22, 2021 1:36 pm

Surely the sceptic tank and portable toilet servicing industry must be brown jobs, not green ones.

Sorry, couldn’t resist.

I’ll get my own coat.

john
February 22, 2021 2:26 pm

US power line tensions grow over green energy surge

https://www.ft.com/content/1742140f-5dd6-4808-8ad7-526404482058

Last edited 8 months ago by john
john
February 22, 2021 3:12 pm

February 17, 2021
DC Circ. Told New England Fuel Storage Plan Keeps Lights On
A regional transmission organization that oversees the power grid across six New England states urged the D.C. Circuit to uphold its plan to pay power plants to store fuel to ensure grid reliability, arguing the program would prevent blackouts in the region during its coldest days.

February 10, 2021
FERC Defends Plant Payments In New England At DC Circ.
The Federal Energy Regulatory Commission told the D.C. Circuit on Tuesday that New England could face electricity shortages on cold winter days in the near future, necessitating the approval of a regional grid operator’s plan to pay power plants to store fuel and thus increase much-needed grid reliability.

December 14, 2020
FERC Can’t Justify $300M Plant Payments, DC Circ. Told
Massachusetts and New Hampshire officials say electricity consumers will overpay up to $300 million because the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission unlawfully approved a regional grid operator plan to pay power plants to store fuel in the name of grid reliability.

Source: Law360 (subscription only)

Last edited 8 months ago by john
Tom Abbott
Reply to  john
February 23, 2021 8:27 am

“A regional transmission organization that oversees the power grid across six New England states urged the D.C. Circuit to uphold its plan to pay power plants to store fuel to ensure grid reliability, arguing the program would prevent blackouts in the region during its coldest days.”

Doing this would be one way Texas could secure its electricity grid.

The State could pay for oil and its storage on natural gas powerplant sites, so the oil could be used to fuel the powerplant if its normal natural gas supplies were interrupted, such as was the case with Texas.

Texas could probably get by with a week’s worth of storage at each site.

Paul Johnson
February 22, 2021 3:45 pm

Note that John Kerry and his ilk always refer to jobs in Green Energy as “fastest growing”, not as highest demand. This means the the number of jobs are rapidly increasing from a very small number to a small number.

john
February 22, 2021 4:43 pm

Safe Nuclear Reactors? It’s Time to Separate Fact From Fiction
Let’s clear the air on nuclear power.

https://interestingengineering.com/safe-nuclear-reactors-fact-from-fiction

beng135
Reply to  john
February 23, 2021 9:03 am

Troll much?

John F Hultquist
February 22, 2021 5:30 pm

For any business to survive, such as farming or making autos, jobs are a cost – not a benefit.
Only in the public sector are jobs a benefit.
The folks doing farming and such use old math. Politicians use new green math.

Biden’s 10 million well-paying jobs are a _______.
{Fill in the blank.}

MarkW
Reply to  John F Hultquist
February 23, 2021 9:59 am

Progressives seem to feel that the only reason for companies to exist is to provide jobs.

Christopher Chantrill
February 22, 2021 6:01 pm

Problem is that whenever the ruling class gets the bit in its teeth it is almost impossible to stop it. Until the ruin and the failure is enough to create a stampede of rage among the populace.

Terry Harnden
February 22, 2021 10:20 pm

Are making spare parts I use to keep my 4 20 and 50 year vehicles maintained green jobs

Terry Harnden
February 22, 2021 10:43 pm

Since 2008 China has graduated a total of the global number in 2008. They may now have 12 times the number of engineers than the rest of the world.

DMacKenzie
February 23, 2021 7:49 am

”Redesignation” is how it will be done. Legislate electric vehicles, then claim the auto industry as “green” workers. Add them to those in the golf business and lawn maintenance. Give a few CO2 credits and declare farmers and ranchers to be in the “green” business. Declare banks and financial institutions green if they pay a wind power premium on their electricity bills. After a bit declare the fast food business as green if they serve salads. Voila !… you have half the GDP declared as green economy participants and much success to tell your gullible voter base about….

February 23, 2021 8:34 am

The conflict is not Left vs Right. It’s between top down (planning and command) and bottom up (liberty).

MarkW
Reply to  D, Anderson
February 23, 2021 10:00 am

Top down vs bottom up, is pretty much the definition of left and right.

M Theory
February 23, 2021 9:17 am

What’s going on today? 🙂 Is it international false attribution day? What are the chances that one Stephen King came up with – surely rather belated in the the 20th century according to anyone’s senses – the adage “fool me once, fool me twice…”? Sub-zero? It seems there was no reflex to check this for 5 seconds using Google before publishing…

tygrus
February 23, 2021 7:03 pm

Rubbery figures. There are direct jobs & indirect jobs. Local jobs if made/done in same country vs foreign jobs if made/done overseas.
Looking at just the direct jobs & costs you see that:
1) If renewable energy generation costs less than there is less money for jobs ie. either lower pay or fewer jobs (worker $ per year).
2) To have a situation of job creation then renewable energy generation must be dearer.

Would you prefer: (A) 30 temp workers for 1 year then 4 permanent for 25 years;
or (B) 5 permanent workers for 26 years?

Situation (A) requires constant building of green energy generation to make “job creation” look good.

If green energy generation requires subsidies before building then the free market sees them as more costly (less profitable) or more risk than the status quo (vs fossil fuel or nuclear). If green energy is cheaper, then government & users shouldn’t be paying more for its use.

What do you call subsidies for fossil fuel? Is it adding an incentive vs removing an unfair disincentive? If fuel has taxes as a way to help pay for roads then primary industry subsidies to refund those taxes (fuel used on farm or during mining) makes it fairer but NOT unfairer for green energy.

Further complication is considering indirect jobs associated with cheaper energy supplied to other industries. Manufacturing requires energy & the cheaper the energy the cheaper the product. Cheaper the product, the more you sell. The more you sell, the more workers you can employ. If energy is more expensive, less indirect workers are employed. If energy is more expensive then it is paying more to workers/owners. But if energy is cheaper than more of it is used and you can eventually have more people employed directly & indirectly.

Further complication is if the product/service is made local or overseas. What’s the point of paying for more jobs if those jobs are overseas and ultimately less benefit to the country paying the bills. You export wealth to import goods & services. You can build wealth if you export more than you import.

The devil is in the detail. As discussed elsewhere, the real cost of unreliable power is who is going to pay to make it more reliable: for the backup power generators to sit idle; additional power lines & interconnects used with less utilisation; storage and spinning inertia with constant losses while waiting; demand management; disconnecting wind turbines & solar PV during generation excess (less profit for them).

Last edited 8 months ago by tygrus
George
February 23, 2021 7:16 pm

I think it might be time to play my “white privilege card.” Anyway I can opt-out of this rubbish?

Hubert
February 24, 2021 8:52 am

I could say the same about fossils jobs which of course depend on existing fossils to extract and which are not permanent ! oil is not supposed to be available from next century …
Your logic is also limited by the understanding of this subject !

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