The Conversation: “International Momentum” and Green Jobs will Persuade Republicans to Back Biden’s Green New Deal

Joe Biden Kamala Harris
Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. By The Circus on SHOWTIME – YouTube, CC BY 3.0, link

Guest essay by Eric Worrall

Two British Political Science professors expect Republicans to resist the inevitability of our green future, at least at first, but they believe the rise of green jobs and “international momentum” will convince Republicans to back Joe Biden’s Green New Deal.

Climate change: Joe Biden could ride a wave of international momentum to break deadlock in US

November 11, 2020 3.12am AEDT

Richard Beardsworth
Professor of International Politics, University of Leeds

Olaf Corry
Professor of Global Security Challenges, University of Leeds

Joe Biden’s presidency is likely to be dominated by “the three Cs”: COVID-19, China and climate change. Each one of these behemoths could make or break him.

Despite wildfires and hurricanes, this was not the long-awaited climate election. Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris campaigned on the promise of a two trillion dollar investment over the next four years. This aims to put the US on course to a carbon-free electricity sector by 2035 and carbon neutrality – meaning, the country’s net carbon emissions would reach zero – by 2050. Their climate plan linked aggressive emissions reductions to social and environmental justice measures beyond compensation for workers and communities embedded in high-carbon industries like coal mining. It was forged in collaboration with the Bernie Sanders campaign and supporters of a Green New Deal.

The bad news is that Biden’s ability to implement such a transformative domestic agenda appears to be severely limited. Any big spending plans are likely to be stymied by the Senate which, even following run-off races in January, can at best end up a 50-50 partisan split, with Harris as the tiebreaker. Even “moderate” Republicans like Mitt Romney have pledged to “make sure that we conservatives keep on fighting to make sure we don’t have a Green New Deal [and] we don’t get rid of gas and coal and oil”.

But if Biden can link action on climate to economic regeneration, jobs, environmental justice, and a proactive foreign policy with both China and Europe, he could yet fulfil both his domestic and international agendas.

Read more:

I think where the professors have gone wrong is they genuinely seem believe the Green New Deal is an economically viable option, which after a few trillion dollars investment will become a self sustaining economic system.

In my opinion this represents a complete denial of engineering and economic reality.

If a business is not competitive when backed with a billion dollars of government cash, how is upping the investment to a trillion dollars supposed to help?

After all the subsidies and political support renewables have received over the decades, if there was any hope for the economic viability of renewables with anything resembling current technology, they would long since have outgrown the need for special government assistance.

To put it another way, that dead horse is not going to jump up and gallop under its own steam, no matter how hard politicians flog it with taxpayer’s money.

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November 10, 2020 10:43 pm

I fixed the headline mistakes . . .
” . . . political donations will Persuade some Republicans to Back Biden’s Green New Deal”

Robert W Turner
Reply to  Warren
November 11, 2020 6:44 am

Biden won’t even be president – coup attempt #3 will fail like the others.

Bill Powers
Reply to  Robert W Turner
November 11, 2020 7:46 am

Robert, assuming it doesn’t fail Biden will be drooling into his bib by inauguration day. Biden does not have any plans unless you count “Badakathcare”

“Cum on man!” is about the best he’s got before he challenges people to an arm wrestling contest. Everybody knows that in reality Biden is a hand puppet for the Socialist Machine that masquerades as the Democrat Party.

We don’t have to imagine the disparity in reporting if Trump were slipping into the early stages of Alzheimer dementia, just You Tube ABNBCBS news reports from Reagan’s last 2 years in office. They are about to premiere a Showtime Special about what a dummy he was and how Nancy was a ventriloquist with a hand up his bum.

Don’t expect to see a similar Special on Hand Puppet Joe Biden and Jill his puppet master in 30 years. The propaganda ministry is so egregiously bias they don’t even make attempts to hide their Socialist activism anymore. At least in the 80’s they took a stab at subtlety but then they Didn’t have cable news and Social media to back their dishonesty in those day

Reply to  Warren
November 11, 2020 8:36 pm

They ought to speak with Speaker Cantor and Senator Crist before they vote.

November 10, 2020 10:48 pm

The viability of Green technology follows the success to sell the sociopolitical myth of environmental waste limited to carbon emission, the em-pathetic appeal of the “fossil fuel” label and associated judgment, and the nuclear meltdown and waste storage deception.

Curious George
Reply to  n.n
November 11, 2020 7:39 am

This line of thought illustrates beautifully why we have been celebrating the Independence Day for over two hundred years.

Reply to  n.n
November 11, 2020 8:23 am

For a party whose mantra is “believe in science” they continually ignore both science and math (not to mention economics which admittedly is more subjective) in their “opinions” and policies.

Those of use who oppose the Green New Deal will not be persuaded by promises of more jobs (or International Momentum – we are already wary of globalist politics!).

– “More jobs” by definition simply means more labor for the same or less energy.

– What the heck has “social and environmental justice” got to do with an Energy policy. The disadvantaged were not put in poverty stricken areas by “big energy”; crowded low cost areas with fewer services are where the poor congregate since the beginning of time! (Another Progressive confusion of cause with effect.)

If you want to lift the poor from their poverty in the US cities and in undeveloped countries give them low cost energy and JOBS. (Of course that is exactly what DJT did for minorities and urban areas prior to the pandemic!)

I am not optimistic about the future of the US because these Progressive philosophies and actions are self reinforcing.

Reply to  George Daddis
November 11, 2020 8:30 am

Government funded jobs do not add wealth to a nation.

November 10, 2020 10:54 pm

“Each one of these behemoths could make or break him.”

IFF Biden get’s in, he will be pasturised within a few months.

Is already well and truly broken.. in the mind , at least.

The “behemoth” is the batch of marxist/socialist deep-state totalitarians sitting behind him, with blades out, waiting their move.

Reply to  fred250
November 11, 2020 1:15 am

Tell me all,
where’s the money coming from dear old Joe gave the keys to the bank to , quote, the most intelligent person I know, HUNTER

Reply to  fred250
November 11, 2020 1:48 am

IFF Biden get’s in, he will be pasturised within a few months.

Based on the theory that Biden is suffering from brain deterioration, Trump tried to steamroll him in the first debate and it didn’t work very well.

I remember how lots of people accused Ronald Reagan of being senile and he didn’t get pasturised.

I wouldn’t bet a large amount of money on Biden not serving one complete term … or vice versa for that matter.

The signs are that Biden and Harris are both insanely ambitious and not ideologically possessed. I think that means they won’t bow down to the idiocy of AOC and company if they can avoid it. link

p.s. IFF … I see what you did there.

Reply to  commieBob
November 11, 2020 2:51 am

That’s IIF, not IFF

I was thinking in mathematical terminology..

Or perhaps, just a big IF 😉

Reply to  fred250
November 11, 2020 8:15 am

That’s my second brain fart in 24 hours. I think it best that I refrain from operating heavy equipment for the rest of the day. 🙂

Reply to  commieBob
November 11, 2020 4:31 am

AOC’s whining about not getting enough “something or other” (attention, most likely), and is babbling about leaving government. (Please don’t toy with us, Ms. Birdbrain.)

This sentence is worth a second read: If a business is not competitive when backed with a billion dollars of government cash, how is upping the investment to a trillion dollars supposed to help? -article

Well, see, when you don’t know nuffin’ ’bout business and how to make it pay for itself, then you go throw more money after it again and again, until there’s no money left. That’s how that works, especially if you’ve never had to work in the Real World of Business/Profit v. Loss. Unfortunately, we’re not as sedate here as those poor souls in the UK and a major power loss in mid-winter (when you need it most) will likely (and probably rightfully) be blamed on THEM, and they won’t be so popular any more.

Something like that.

Steve Reddish
Reply to  Sara
November 11, 2020 9:20 am

“political science professors” explains their ignorance.

Reply to  commieBob
November 11, 2020 9:53 pm

That article was in December 2019. Biden’s campaign has already caved to AOC.

John Endicott
Reply to  commieBob
November 12, 2020 3:37 am

Based on the theory that Biden is suffering from brain deterioration, Trump tried to steamroll him in the first debate and it didn’t work very well.

That was a big mistake on Trump’s part as his interruptions helped cover for Joe’s mental short comings. You can’t show up someone’s brain deterioration by hogging all the speaking time. Trump should have given Biden all the rope he needed to hang himself. IE let him talk, the longer he talks the more his speech degenerates in to rambling and incoherence. Without a teleprompter (and sometimes even with one) he can only handle short bursts of talking points which, by constantly interrupting, Trump saved him from having to go beyond those short bursts.

November 10, 2020 10:56 pm

“The Green New Deal” is the most comprehensive environmental policy I’ve ever seen written in crayon.

Reply to  Will Nitschke
November 10, 2020 11:05 pm

Well said.

Reply to  Will Nitschke
November 11, 2020 12:02 am

Shouldn’t it be “The Grim New Deal”?

Reply to  Phillip Bratby
November 11, 2020 1:23 am

It’s been cslled the longest suicide note ever written.

Michael S. Kelly
Reply to  RockyRoad
November 11, 2020 2:43 pm

The GND is just like socialism: it fails every time it’s tried. But that’s just because the previous attempts weren’t “genuine” GND [socialism].

Ill Tempered Klavier
Reply to  Phillip Bratby
November 11, 2020 3:54 pm

How about “Green NUT Deal?”

Reply to  Will Nitschke
November 11, 2020 5:56 am

How else can one seriously address cow fartz and lay the tracks for high speed trains to Hawaii?

November 10, 2020 11:04 pm

Methinks they overestimate the influence of “International Momentum” over domestic politics in the U.S., especially within the Republican Party.

Joel O’Bryan
November 10, 2020 11:09 pm

The Democrats’ GND should be viewed in the same way as 1930’s Mein Kampf is today. Both are a recipe for totalitarian rule by a singular leader and administered by an elitist class along with a prescription for {geno cide}of undesirables. Besides arguing for “cleansing” of undesirables, it also strongly urges Democratic rule be vested in a singular ruler to make decisions for the common good.

The GND simply seen as the path to more power for a small ruling class to cleanse the Earth of unwanted humans by via starvation induced by energy poverty.

Reply to  Joel O’Bryan
November 11, 2020 12:17 am

This is sadly a very correct comment: I live in Germany and here I have the impression to deal with people obsessed by their ideology and who cannot see the truth.
Germany has a huge automotive industry, but the Green party (die Güne) which is in the leading coalition together with the democrats (SPD) and Merkel’s Union (CDU) are destroying it. Moving for instance to electric cars many jobs will be lost.
There is a big number of spoiled youngsters living far from reality and maintained by their parents who will not have a job in 5 years. But they believe that eventually the government shall print money and distribute to them.
Souns crazy, but they really believe in a sort of green based socialism in which someone will work to produce goods for them, while they will not have to earn for living. One day they have to wake up and it will hurt.

Reply to  Luigi
November 11, 2020 3:09 am

The Universal Basic Income (UBI) is being floated here in the States–it would provide everybody with $1,000 per month for doing nothing! Like the Minimum Wage, it would have catastrophic effects.

Bill Powers
Reply to  RockyRoad
November 11, 2020 8:08 am

Considering they are fast approaching the point at which federal tax revenue will not be enough to cover the interest payment on the debt, they better enjoy their UBI while it lasts. Maybe 10 years? Economic collapse is going to kill far more people than AOC’s death by climate change in 12 years.

We are fast approaching the collapse. The 1%ers and their cultural elite clingers better start turning their gated communities into crenelated walled communities and prepare for a siege that will make BLM burning down the urban centers look like a bouncy castle grade school birthday party celebration. Nancy Pelosi better stock up on her gourmet Ice Cream.

Reply to  Bill Powers
November 11, 2020 10:03 am

We’ll just cut off fossil fuel and electricity to California and Nancy’s gourmet Ice Cream will become flavored milk that will sour.

Reply to  RockyRoad
November 12, 2020 7:48 am

At least with the minimum wage, you actually have to show up in order to get paid. The UBI is many times worse than the minimum wage.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Luigi
November 11, 2020 7:53 am

“die Güne”

Couple of minor corrections.

Should be “der Grüne” (you missed the “r”), as a masculine noun. The plural would be “die Grünen”. Noun plurals are all feminine. THAT, is gender folks. Not male and female.

Reply to  Joel O’Bryan
November 11, 2020 3:30 am

This is nonsense: Greens push for the devolution and democratisation of power and removing it from elites.

Cleansing the earth indeed. That has no basis in reality.

Craig from Oz
Reply to  griff
November 11, 2020 3:51 am

… and then giving the power to the CORRECT ELITES.

The Left ARE the ELITES. They Know Best.

You are a goose, Griff. Marxism has never been about the workers, it is about the lazy unemployable ‘arts’ class sitting around watching the workers take home a weekly wage and the factory owners making a steady hard earned profit and wondering in jealousy why no one is paying them six figure salaries related to their pointless liberal arts degree.

They want to kick over the establishment despite the fact they are not actually an active part of it and know that deep down they can screw up other people’s lives in their little social experiments in complete safety because they don’t work or own anything.

Marxists are lazy, greedy, selfish, control freaks driven by jealousy of other people’s success.

Reply to  Craig from Oz
November 11, 2020 4:05 am

I know a few educated marxist dropkicks that resemble that remark or just watch Q&A on the ABC … you would not waste the water to put them out if they were on fire.

Reply to  LdB
November 11, 2020 5:09 am

I think you meant you would not pi$$ on their head if their hair was on fire. I know I wouldn’t!

Bryan A
Reply to  LdB
November 11, 2020 6:13 am

You might if their hair weren’t on fire though

Reply to  LdB
November 11, 2020 10:00 am

… I was just being pro-active officer….

Reply to  Craig from Oz
November 11, 2020 5:39 am

Craig from Oz, please do not insult geese by telling griff he is one of them. They have peculiar brains that can instantly memorize a path of flight south for the winter, but frequently can’t pick a safe place to build a nest and raise their little honkers in safety, thus requiring crossing a busy street in heavy traffic.

griff has frequently let us know that he is less in touch with the real world than geese. The elites are NOT elite. They just think they are.

Reply to  griff
November 11, 2020 4:08 am

well their plan certainly doesn’t…..until China is on board with this…it’s just another scam

Reply to  griff
November 11, 2020 11:28 am

“and removing it from elites.”

Yet the left are backed by those that consider themselves “elite”

The multi-billionaires like Soros et al and the owners of MSM.

Your tiny mind lives in a little fantasy world, griff, TOTALLY detached from any semblance of rational thought or basis of reality.

Reply to  griff
November 12, 2020 7:50 am

I see that griff actually does believe the nonsense he preaches.

Regardless of claims about the future, just examine the past. Every time these socialist dreams have been implemented they have ALWAYS resulted in power being hogged by the elite and mass death for the masses.

Jon Alldritt
November 10, 2020 11:11 pm

World wide it is at the bottom of the of priorities with only a small number of special kind of stupid willing to pay for things that will not change things

Reply to  Jon Alldritt
November 11, 2020 5:48 am

You mean like the actual number of Trans people historically in the population? Like that small of a number not changing things?

Marc Sanders
November 10, 2020 11:14 pm

If a “green future” were viable, no one would have to force it on people. It would evolve naturally. That’s not how the lefties roll. Freedom is antithetical to the lefty vision of their own power and wealth, and the subjugation of their subjects.

November 10, 2020 11:15 pm

These people live in a strange apocalyptic dream in which they star as the saviors of mankind, consumed with intoxicating delusions of their own grandeur. Shhh, don’t wake them. They’ll never believe how wonderful the real world is, anyway, so stop trying to convince them with facts and logic. The power trip they’re on is irresistibly beguiling…

November 10, 2020 11:16 pm

You got it right!

Climate Alarmists = Reality Deniers

November 10, 2020 11:41 pm

what will happen is that large companies, already heading in a renewable and sustainable direction, will up their investment in green technologies.

It doesn’t matter what the fossil rump of the Republican Party thinks.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Eric Worrall
November 11, 2020 12:42 am

Maybe. One of the largest food retailers in Aus has just announce to go 100% renewable. On-roof solar too! I think I will move my business to IGA.

Reply to  Patrick MJD
November 11, 2020 1:45 am

“has just announce to go 100% renewable.”


No night shopping unless there is a light breeze.

No reliable electricity for their refrigeration..

Cloudy, windless day, they have to shut the doors.

sounds like a great business strategy !…. NOT !

Reply to  fred250
November 11, 2020 3:32 am

Walmart is already 24% renewably powered. do you notice it is only open 76% of the time?

Bryan A
Reply to  fred250
November 11, 2020 6:30 am

Wal-Mart is still 76% reliable energy sourced

Bryan A
Reply to  fred250
November 11, 2020 7:42 am

In Griffs favor, other than the “burn your workplace down from the rooftop fire” aspect of Solar there isn’t much else wrong with t so long as it isn’t inter-tied to the grid and so used to recharge a personal back up battery or supply personal power during the daytime
OR both provided you have space for sufficient panels

Michael Jankowski
Reply to  fred250
November 11, 2020 9:40 am

“…Walmart is already 24% renewably powered. do you notice it is only open 76% of the time?…”

There are 24-hour Walmart locations, but yes, many are open less than 76% of the time. Far less.

Reply to  fred250
November 11, 2020 5:12 pm

”No night shopping unless there is a light breeze.”

Aaaha ha ha ha ha ha..

Reply to  Patrick MJD
November 11, 2020 1:53 am

What will power their refrigerators at night and during cloudy weather?

Reply to  Graemethecat
November 11, 2020 2:21 am

I can tell you what will fuel THEIR refrigerators at night and during cloudy weather: Fossil fuels. They won’t do without. They will fly, and drive, and do whatever they like. We will have rotten food, blackouts, electric cars with no electricity, and we won’t be able to fly.

Reply to  Graemethecat
November 11, 2020 3:25 am

solar still works when it is cloudy.

(Just check out how much solar Walmart have)

Craig from Oz
Reply to  Graemethecat
November 11, 2020 3:56 am

Griff, you are objectively an idiot if you believe that.

Ben Vorlich
Reply to  Graemethecat
November 11, 2020 6:22 am

Griff, Sunday to Tuesday in the UK for most of the time the French, Dutch interconnectors were supply more electricity than wind and solar combined. Some of the time gas was over 50% and combined wit nuclear over 70%. (still over 50% today). Today wind and solar are at 31.44% and 1.39% respectively. Looks like a cloudy breezy day in the UK today (I’m locked down in France so you’ll have to confirm that for me)

You can download data from here and make a donation:

Bryan A
Reply to  Graemethecat
November 11, 2020 6:33 am

Wal-Mart has so much rooftop solar energy that they can’t contain it without their roofs being scorched

Reply to  Graemethecat
November 11, 2020 8:36 am

Marc November 11, 2020 at 2:21 am
“I can tell you what will fuel THEIR refrigerators at night and during cloudy weather: Fossil fuels. They won’t do without. ”

Nancy Pelosi’s consumption for her two $23,000.00 (each) refrigerators, necessary to keep her chocolate ice cream frozen, will bring down the windmill grid all by itself.

Reply to  Graemethecat
November 11, 2020 11:11 am

“solar still works when it is cloudy.”


Perhaps you didn’t realise that they are still hooked up to the grid.

You truly are a no-brain dolt, griff. !

Reply to  Graemethecat
November 12, 2020 7:56 am

Solar does work when it’s cloudy, however they amount of power being generated plummets dramatically.

griff, are you really as stupid as your posts make you seem?

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Patrick MJD
November 11, 2020 2:26 am

Trust me I know it sounds stupid because it is.

Reply to  Patrick MJD
November 11, 2020 3:48 am

I did five years ago and prices are equal or lower than the two largest retailers.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Patrick MJD
November 11, 2020 7:55 am

“Maybe. One of the largest food retailers in Aus has just announce to go 100% renewable. On-roof solar too! I think I will move my business to IGA.”

They can announce it all they want. But can they prove it?

Reply to  Patrick MJD
November 11, 2020 8:51 am

A nearby cold storage warehouse has a wind turbine about 2 m. diameter, 15 m. long gang of hot water solar tubes for employee hand-washing water…big sign in front that says they are 100% renewable….in the back, about 700 HP of refrigeration equipment….a couple of hundred diesel trucks come and go every day….The windmill doesn’t produce enough electricity to charge their forklifts. This is the kind of “green virtue” that pleases politicians. Of course the local utility has special high rates you can pay if you want “renewables-based” kilowatts, allowing the cold storage warehouse to validate their claim….but really…..

Reply to  griff
November 11, 2020 1:38 am

With no industry and only intermittent, unreliable energy…

.. who is going to make all the wind turbines and solar panels.

The Chinese ? ! 😉

Reply to  fred250
November 11, 2020 3:26 am

Thanks to lack of vision and investment by the USA. you could have got in on the ground floor – but fossil fuel interests shut that down

Reply to  griff
November 11, 2020 3:53 am

So the UK is so clever they got in on the ground floor

Hmmmm lets look at the UK manufacturing data …. ooops down 40% since 1951

Oh well surely since they got in on the ground floor for the renewable market they must have really killed the pig on that …. oooops

Yeah I am sure every country is really envious of the UK …. some FAILS are EPIC.

Bryan A
Reply to  LdB
November 11, 2020 7:45 am

Problem is the building is 100,000 sq.ft. And the solar panel requirement is 300,000 sq.ft.
The ground floor is 3 times larger than it should be

Reply to  griff
November 11, 2020 5:15 am

Really? Have you heard of Solyndra? That was over 1/2 a billion US treasure funds there.

US can’t compete with slave labor. But griff believes slave labor is a good thing.

Reply to  Drake
November 11, 2020 6:06 am

Yes, Solyndra is the blueprint. It is about giving the appearance of doing something positive while government funds are siphoned off to make political donations and payments. In the end, it’s a fraudulent waste and collapses. There are dozens of companies that used billions and accomplished the same. For a very short while, money is spent on development and jobs, but it’s temporary, unsustainable and based on lies.

The following list was from 2012. I believe that Kior, Range Fuels and Rentech should be added to the list with many others.

Reply to  griff
November 11, 2020 11:16 am


You still haven’t figured out that these “renewable”s have to be made and renewed USING FOSSIL FUELS.

You are slipping faster and faster into the very depths of idiocy , griff.

Reply to  griff
November 11, 2020 1:37 pm

griff you have absolutely no idea of the extent of damage that renewables create right through from cradle to grave do you. Ten times the resources, death, and degradation of people, the environment and the economy.

And you think this is a good thing?

Reply to  griff
November 12, 2020 7:58 am

Once again, the progressives are convinced that they only reason the world doesn’t agree with them is because evil people are interfering. This is the primary reason why there are always purges whenever socialists finally gain total power.

Reply to  griff
November 11, 2020 1:42 am

With no fossil fuels, there will be no way to transport and install solar and wind anyway !

Or to even make the huge trucks required for such transportation.

And without coal, there will be no steel to put in the reinforcement.

and without fracking, as well, there is no way to make all the cement and plastics and aluminium needed for their environmentally destructive installation.

Reply to  fred250
November 11, 2020 6:08 am

Yes and carbon (highly purified coal) is used to reduce silica to silicon for PV.

Bryan A
Reply to  griff
November 11, 2020 6:22 am

And how exactly are Wind and Solar “sustainable”???
Both require far more mining that Coal.
Both kill or maim more children in the mining process than coal.
Both require far more open space and infrastructure expenditures than reliable energy sources
Both produce, on average, less than 30% nameplate capacity requiring >3 times as much generation capacity than reliable energy sources
Both are Low Density Energy Sources requiring 30-50 Times the arable land space that reliable sources do

Reply to  Bryan A
November 11, 2020 8:32 am

Bryan, you forgot this: the windmills and solar panels have a lifespan of 20 years. The massive mining/transport/manufacturing industrial complex, since they would cover about 1/4 of the surface area of the earth and require constant demolition, recycle, reship, and reassemble, gives new meaning to the word “renewable.”

Of course, that is the Green plan for generating jobs: playing with windmills.

Reply to  Bryan A
November 11, 2020 8:38 am

… and the windmills and s.panels have to be replaced every 20 years. That’s why they are called “renewable.”

Michael Jankowski
Reply to  griff
November 11, 2020 9:34 am

So what you’re saying griff is that the Green New Deal or any other government action is unnecessary because corporations are already taking us there.

John Endicott
Reply to  Michael Jankowski
November 12, 2020 3:40 am

Exactly, if corporations are already taking us there then why the need and push for government actions and endless subsidies? If corporations are already taking us there then a “new green deal” is not necessary, and indeed is simply a waste of government resources in order for politicians to virtue signal. Government should simply get out of the way and let the corporations do what griff claims they’re already doing of their own free will.

November 10, 2020 11:50 pm

Green jobs seem to be the modern equivalent of a form of command economy. They involve the forced replacement by the state of efficient jobs and energy production with less efficient and more expensive equivalents. None of the green costs include the very real cost of fossil fuel backup, which inherently makes the renewables less efficient, especially in the cost of capital employed.

The change is not being brought about by state ownership of the means of production (as it was in the Soviet Union). Instead its being brought about by the state becoming the only (and coercive) customer of private enterprises. This seems rather similar to the economic model of the well known National Socialists in Germany.

Sadly here in the UK we are going the same way. Not just in climate insanity, also in what is starting to look like coercive behaviour by the government in the context of covid vaccines. Same relationship between government and big enterprises.

I have said it before, but I’ll say it again here.

The biggest threat to Western Democracies is not man-made climate change. Its the belief in man-made climate change.

Reply to  ThinkingScientist
November 11, 2020 1:18 am

You are right, it is actually fascism, the short def. of which is: “Ostensible private enterprise and property, but under command and control of government.” As opposed to “government ownership of means of production.” However, the distinction is minor compared to that of ‘individual vs state.’

Sixty years ago, Ayn Rand illuminated the understanding that fascism and communism (and their weaker approaches) were not polar opposites, but rather share the same fundamental: collectivism.

In her essay “The Fascist New Frontier,” Rand detailed the 1920 political platform of the German Nazi Party, including demands for “an end to the power of the financial interests,” “profit sharing in big business,” “a broad extension of care for the aged,” the “improvement of public health” by government, “an all‐​around enlargement of our entire system of public education,” remarking that the source of command and control to grant these things by government “can only proceed from within on the foundation of “The Common Good Before the Individual Good.”

November 10, 2020 11:51 pm

Solyndra left such a nasty taste in the mouth of many USA politicians that I suspect many don’t fancy biting into the so called green new deal potage.

Flight Level
November 10, 2020 11:57 pm

Guys, seriously, you’re not letting a visibly mentally disabled captain who would fail any criminal screening and a nepotistic crew with documented radical extremist convictions fly your nation ?

I don’t want to interfere with your way of life, however, if you go down then we, across the pond, go down too.

Reply to  Flight Level
November 11, 2020 3:27 am

I can think of a couple of recent US Presidents who fit that description…

Reply to  griff
November 11, 2020 3:55 am

I thought he was talking about the one intending to be the next president.

Bryan A
Reply to  LdB
November 11, 2020 6:39 am

Griff must be talking about (We don’t need congress to sign an international treaty) Obama and (I did not have sex with that woman) Clinton
Definitely a couple of wasteful Presidents

Flight Level
Reply to  griff
November 11, 2020 4:50 am

please quote names while interweb is still accessible by the unprivileged masses.

Reply to  griff
November 11, 2020 9:46 am

The worst one was LBJ(Lyndon Baines Johnson) and his “Great Society” flim-flam. Paraphrasing a quote “we get this through and we’ll have the N…… voting Democrat for 60 years(or something)”

He came close , his programs started in 1964, so he only chalked up 55 years or so before an independent Republican attracted a significant increase in Blacks-notably men- voted for him. Donald Trump boosted more Blacks out of poverty in two years than LBJ chained his first year.

Reply to  griff
November 11, 2020 2:42 pm

griff you had a lot of people respond to your comment on renewables being a positive thing. You talk them up but we’re still waiting for you to educate us on how they are better than, say, gas or nuclear.

Justify the dirty side of renewables griff.

November 11, 2020 12:01 am

It will work for sure: USA have just support the green deal with national debt and let it pay to the following generations, as most European countries do. Eventually we live just one time, so who cares for the future (I hope irony is not too hidden here)

Ken Irwin
November 11, 2020 12:05 am

“Reality Deniers” – Nice one ! I’ll file that for future use – thanks.

November 11, 2020 12:32 am

Now that is funny right there … in the real world the republicans will block every single thing Biden puts up and they will feel vindicated in doing so 🙂

Reply to  LdB
November 11, 2020 12:55 am

The first President Harris will do is put the USA back into the Paris Climate scam with an executive order.

Reply to  Klem
November 11, 2020 3:57 am

Which is as meaningless as when the big “O” had USA in the agreement.

Reply to  LdB
November 11, 2020 5:25 am

With a conservative majority on the SCOTUS the Republicans can take any Presidential “agreement” to court and, if not submitted to the Senate for ratification, have it declared invalid.

The Iran deal and Paris accord were both done without the votes necessary for a treaty and were constitutionally invalid.

They have been unable to do so in the past due to years of liberal control of the courts.

That is why the Dems so hate the TRUMP! appointees.

John Endicott
Reply to  Drake
November 12, 2020 3:25 am

Unfortunately, the SCOTUS is only a conservative majority on paper. Roberts swings to the left all to frequently. And Kavanaugh hasn’t been entirely reliable either. Still it’s more conservative then it’s been in ages, Thanks to Trump, so that’s at least some glimmer of hope there.

Leo Smith
November 11, 2020 12:38 am

Please guys, the Dimmoclots no more believe in Green than anyone else, but the people who drip feed dollars into their pockets make a lot of money out of it, and spend it on making Green an Issue. So people simply jump on the bandwagon to take advantage of the virtue it signals and the cash on offer.

The physical world responds to Natural Law, but people respond to what they can be induced to believe. In the post truth world, if you disregard the physical world, the statement that ‘whatever people believe is the truth’ is essentially true enough to guide all political thought.

It is not just Green, the whole marketing power of globalist business is all set to simply hammer home a moralistic world-view that people can believe in, and sell product power and control on the back of it. That this is a deeply idiotic stance to take, in the limit, simply does not occur to people with degrees in politics economics or Law.

The Left is no longer anti-capitalist at heart, it is owned by the people they warned you about. Every piece of news is carefully constructed, and fed to us, and its effect monitored with opinion polls and market surveys. They are not interested in what is, but in what we think, is.

Marxist groups like BLM are carefully nurtured and used to create racial tensions. Not get rid of it. Same with gender issues. Admit it. You used to really quite like women, and black people and be totally tolerant of homosexuals till they rubbed your noses in whatever -ism was handy to create tensions within society.
Why? Because they have no real justification for existing and certainly not for wielding the power that they do. And a united population might just topple them. They can now heave a sigh of relief, because Trump truly was an enemy. The massive propaganda worked, enough people were convinced to vote, possibly more than once, to remove him, because make no mistake, no one voted FOR Biden. They voted against Trump.
And as long as this propaganda war is being won, as many Republicans will ride it to preserve their jobs.

In my youth, the last vestiges of an earlier establishment ruled Britain. They were rich, privileged men, who maintained the fiction that they were the right people to run things, and were moral. Of course they were not, they were corrupt as heck, but there was in there, a distant class memory of the great civil wars in England and Scotland, which arose because kings and Lord Protectors had overstepped the mark. Noblesse oblige was more than just a quaint mediaeval notion that no one believed in. No class is irreplaceable, and they were in time replaced. By a new class that ignored history, and embraced whatever notion would gain them political control irrespective of damage done to nations. And had nothing but contempt for the common people. Cold war tools of disinformation and propaganda were adapted to destabilise their own nations in order to bring political control, and big business funded this and rode along merely demanding that a few laws here and there were passed to ensure that they didn’t have to work too hard to make obscene profits.

100 years later, here we are, teetering on the edge of the collapse of civilisation not because of ClimateChange™, but because those who run it have forgotten two historical facts, Nature always throws a curved ball, and while people are stupid, they are not that stupid. Neither are they entirely powerless.

I urge people here to stop and think. So long as you mess around challenging the science you are in effect playing their game. They have hooked you into a faux debate about climate change, whilst they are busy doing other stuff.

Look at the broader picture. Become like the Soviets who, on hearing any news at all from the state broadcasters, learnt to immediately ask themselves “Now, why do they want me to believe that?”

What is going on here, with this story, is simply that. They don’t even pretend to be particularly moral about it. “This scam will create jobs and here’s a brown envelope stuffed with greenbacks, to buy your vote”.

Of course they are corrupt to the core. I mean who else can be trusted to always do exactly as Big Money tells them?

Reply to  Leo Smith
November 11, 2020 3:24 am

The Democrats aren’t a party of the left – they are centre right… BLM while activist, isn’t Marxist.

Democrats are more right wing than the UK conservative Party/current UK govt.

Reply to  griff
November 11, 2020 4:02 am

The democrats have a wide spectrum, take Warren, Sanders and Occasional Cortex you would struggle to be more left wing than them.

Bryan A
Reply to  griff
November 11, 2020 6:44 am

U.S. Democrats are the epitome of Leftist ideology
Sit on the Left side of the Senate
Dominate the Left Coast of the U.S.

Reply to  Bryan A
November 11, 2020 8:45 am

and are still way, way right of any socialist or social Democratic party in Europe. and even some right wing ones.

Reply to  griff
November 11, 2020 10:20 am

And the most productive country in the world is …?

And the place that most people want to immigrate to is …?

Griff, you shit in your own bed and then suggest/demand that others do the same; “we’re happy with the filth … you will be too … just try it for a little while … it’s not only good for you, it’s good for everyone.”

Reply to  griff
November 11, 2020 8:15 am

Left is right and up is down. Right, griff?

Reply to  griff
November 11, 2020 8:51 am

The leadership of BLM have stated publicly that they are trained Marxists. Period; end of discussion.
(I guess the “raised fist” BLM symbol on their flag is just an amazing coincidence.)

From what I understand the UK “Conservative Party” has completely left the tracks. Hardly a relative standard for the US Democrats. Try comparing the policies of today’s “Progressive” Democrats with those of John Kennedy’s Democrats.

Reply to  griff
November 11, 2020 11:24 am

“The Democrats aren’t a party of the left”


To griff, even the Democrats seem centre-right.

Democrats are marxists/socialist totalitarians.

Only the dumbest, most far left moron in existence would call then anywhere near the centre.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  griff
November 12, 2020 9:53 am

“BLM while activist, isn’t Marxist.”

Wrong. They’ve said they’re Marxist, proudly. You really should pay attention.

November 11, 2020 12:40 am

HaHaHaHa, stop it your killin me!

November 11, 2020 12:45 am

“Green New Deal” is not about climate change or environmental activism.

It is about the deep shift into Modern Monetary Theory, and authoritarian collectivist political philosophy with which to implement it. In other words, the enslavement of the citizens of the United States.

The government will provide:
all people of the United States with—
(i) high-quality health care;
(ii) affordable, safe, and adequate housing;
(iii) economic security; and
(iv) clean water, clean air, healthy and affordable food, and access to nature.

Sounds like “The American Dream,” right?
NO. The American Dream was the promise of freedom, individual rights and rule of law so citizens could pursue those things for themselves.

And don’t forget the killer line, AOC’s masterpiece of letting the mask slip: “economic security to all those who are unable or unwilling to work”

November 11, 2020 1:20 am

The only viable solution to our energy needs in the future is clean nuclear. We must muster the political will to use it!

November 11, 2020 1:31 am

Yes, that’s funny. International momentum is negative. Energy cost is exploding upward in the countries bought into the grim new religion even though gas and oil are cheap. The Paris goals are not being met. China moved their carbon goals out decades. Practical long term storage of electricity has still not been discovered. Real scientists have discovered that CO2 emissions from fossil fuels cannot be detected within the ongoing much larger trend of net global CO2 concentration, which means human emissions are neglible whether you believe more CO2 is good or bad. Global ice mass is increasing again recently, but humans play no part in that. Sentient people have learned that climate models are not working, unvalidatable, and the climate agenda is a global fraud. And, millions of people realize the only thing dangerous about human caused global warming is the people promoting it.

Bruce Cobb
November 11, 2020 2:13 am

So they really think Republicans will be that easily bamboozled? Not even in their dreams.

Reply to  Bruce Cobb
November 11, 2020 10:15 am

They might.

There might end up being a giant New Green Bubble that all the 97% will feel a need to jump on board.

Nobody remembers or talks about the old dutch guy that kept shaking his head about the whole thing … “you idiots with the tulips … when you die broke I’ll be able to pay the mortician a half-penny to bury you with a whole boquet stuffed in your arses.”

Once a bubble starts it is hard to stop … until it stops. Here’s hoping it doesn’t really start.

John Endicott
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
November 12, 2020 3:13 am

bamboozled? no. The only thing that will get the Republicans onboard with the Green New Deal is their own lack of spines and their tendency to offer up “lite” versions of anything the Dems propose.

November 11, 2020 2:56 am

Another nutty professor who never worked in the private industry teaches everyone else about how to create jobs.

November 11, 2020 3:02 am

This whole push for the Green New Deal is part of the Reset being used by the Central Bankers to bring the US aboard because their fiat currency system has failed world-wide.

Currently much of Europe is utilizing negative interest rates and so the central bankers are freaking out about that; they can’t sustain it much longer and the real possibility of collapse depends on whether or not Trump is re-elected because Trump opposes the Reset and wants to destroy the Central Banker’s Federal Reserve. The vast fraud in the election along with corporate media everywhere (including Fox!) pushing Biden as the president-elect is an active coup happening right before our eyes!

So don’t be fooled! The Reset would NOT be in our best interests and neither would the Green New Deal. If Biden somehow weasels into the presidency, he will undo everything Trump has accomplished plus impose astronomical levels of new taxes. Gone will be regulatory relief; gone will be fracking and our energy-independent country! Gone will be a vibrant economy and the increase in manufacturing jobs!

The Reset does away with our constitution and our free-market system. The Paris Climate Accord will be back along with the TPP and the Iran Nuclear Deal.

Trump has to win this voter fraud battle in the courts or all is reversed and lost!

November 11, 2020 3:20 am

Leftists REALLY are clueless on how economies grow, prosper and implode…

It’s IMPOSSIBLE to create REAL jobs and a strong economy by implementing unneeded and insane CAGW energy and regulations policies which will: increase energy prices, increase debt, increase taxes, increase private sector regulation compliance costs, make products and services uncompetitive in the global market, increase interest rates, reduce capital reserves, decrease economic efficiency, misallocate land, labor, capital and natural resources, destroy and unemploy entire sectors of the economy, make prices for ALL goods and services more expensive, destroy the real estate, stock market, automotive and oil & gas industries, lower living standards, increase inflation, etc.,,,

Leftists need to read Bastiat’s Parable of the Broken Window to understand why their stupid “economic stimulus” programs and Socialism never have or ever will work.

Craig from Oz
November 11, 2020 4:02 am

So when do all these amazing Green Jobs(tm) finally kick in?

We have been told about the pending outbreak of Green Jobs(tm) for at least a decade now. Where are they? What is delaying them?

Oh that’s right, the Fossil Fuel Industry have been selfishly suppressing them, instead of say, Oh I don’t know, embracing them and controlling both the green and fossil industries.

Remember it is called Big Oil for a reason. Not Medium Oil, or Tiny Oil. BIG Oil.

And it got big by being successful and supplying a market, NOT because they happen to like oil.

If there was a free market for Green that honestly was worth the billions everyone is claiming then Big Oil would be making billions from Green by now.

Reply to  Craig from Oz
November 11, 2020 4:51 pm

Craig we are in the unfortunate situation of living smack bang in the middle of the Central West Renewable Energy Zone in NSW. We bought and built on a small acreage near an historic town two and a half years ago. There are coal mines not too far from here, one around 20 kilometres away. We chose to live here, these historic towns exist because of mining, some of them go back to the Gold Rush era of the 1800’s, we like the people and the community spirit.

Large scale renewables are being forced on us, thousands of hectares of agricultural land are being bulldozed, flora and fauna, countless native animals displaced and destroyed. The state politician Matt Kean, leading this madness calls himself a moderate. What a joke, two of the people on the ‘think tank’ he created are Greens! One of them is actually the leader of the Greens Party.

This politician is making regular blanket statements about all the jobs that will be created through renewable energy. According to his percentages, more then 60% of these ‘excellent’ jobs will be for construction workers.

Our local solar works, Beryl Solar, is 87mw covering 310 hectares. That project required around 150 construction workers, over around 4 months, they were backpackers, bussed in and out of town each day. Camps are built to house these workers, our towns rely on tourism so large numbers of budget accommodation are harder to come by. On completion, after around eight or nine months to build, Beryl has one full time employee, a security guard. Outside contractors cut the grass from time to time.

The nearby Wellington solar project is one of the largest in Australia at this time. This project has 560 construction workers, most are backpackers, most are in camp accommodation. They recently had 13 issues raised in regard to electricals, some of them serious. The backpackers had no clue of potential dangers.

Most of the renewables infrastructure in Australia arrives on our shores complete. The jobs associated with mining, processing and manufacture are done predominantly overseas, most cost effective.

What jobs Matt Kean? The backpackers working on your disastrous renewables projects should be spread across NSW helping our farmers pick fruit and vegetables. They are having to destroy fruit and vegetable crops which are rotting because they can’t get the workers for harvest. We are sick of lies being spouted to the media and to the general public.

Another favourite line of his and other proponents of renewables is that 80% of the general public support renewable energy. What utter garbage! They are promoting the idea of this so that the public are tricked into thinking it’s true. The general public know nothing about renewable energy, or how it comes about. If the general public knew the cradle to grave story of renewables they would never support it.

He also pretends that the regional communities are kept informed and up to date with projects in their areas, and that they are supportive of renewables. Garbage! This industry is so secretive that most people in these communities didn’t even realise renewables were happening until the construction started. It is causing division and heartbreak and it’s almost impossible to get a politician or the press to even respond to you let alone have a conversation. Believe me I have tried. Though I will say our local Federal MP has kept the lines of communication open.

No one can tell us what will happen to this infrastructure when it’s no longer useful either. Our region will have tens of millions of solar panels and large numbers of wind turbines to dispose of. Who will pay for this? It’s simply being dumped on us. All for infrastructure that’s not fit for purpose. All being subsidised by the taxpayer, from cradle to grave. Most of this money going to
overseas multinational conglomerates.

November 11, 2020 4:42 am

Green policies allow the elite to control and crush working class aspirations with regulation and taxes then feel really good about the damage inflicted.

Carl Friis-Hansen
November 11, 2020 4:48 am

Bright Green future with tailwind for thousands of wind turbines, Green jobs an mass in Spain, didn’t turn out quite so formidable and nearly bankrupt the country.

Why fix something which is not broken?
Germany struggling with the Energiewende?
Denmark’s wold’s highest number of wind turbines per capita (for a country) has made interesting electricity prices.
California suffering more and more stable energy production insufficiency, which was already becoming an issue by the turn of the century.

Why make changes?
All for it. We humans evolve, develop and pursue ever more quality of life.
Thus, “big spending” as The Conversation think is needed, is counter productive to quality of life. If a new development has proven viable, then some government issued loan guarantees may be needed to get going on a large scale, but preferably it should not be needed.

If just President Trump could have been a bit more aggressive getting the CO2 endangerment claim purged, a lot of this insanity may have been avoided.
Trump, you got North Carolina today – so get the rest of the stolen goods and ASAP kick this CO2 thingy out to the needy plants!

Carl Friis-Hansen
November 11, 2020 5:11 am

Some interesting viewpoints from Sky News Australia an hour ago.

Trump stands firm because ‘Democrats failed to give losers’ consent for four years’
Where also is mentioned Stockholm Syndrome and some other interesting things.

Loren C Wilson
November 11, 2020 7:57 am

Wrong on both counts. But sadly, they will continue to spend us into bankruptcy trying to convince us that less efficient technologies are actually more efficient. And they have the stupidity to accuse me of being the anti-science person. The laws of thermodynamics don’t care, they just apply.

Al Miller
November 11, 2020 8:49 am

I have long ago given up on being astounded at how out out of touch and “low iq” professors can be.

Jeff Alberts
November 11, 2020 9:47 am

Biden actually said, in his pre-acceptance speech, that we can “bring climate under control”.

I wonder if Joe can tell us when climate was EVER under control.

Bruce Cobb
November 11, 2020 10:23 am

“international momentum”
Translation: A combination of peer pressure, guilt, bandwagon envy, and fear of being “othered”.
In other words, they are counting on the Republicans sans Trump, not having the cajones.

John Endicott
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
November 12, 2020 3:16 am

Which, let’s face it, seems to be the Republicans default state.

Peter W
November 11, 2020 2:33 pm

It will be interesting to see how the rhetoric changes after we have had lots of record-breaking cold spells such as the one out west a little while ago. I have been predicting for some time that the next ice age is coming. The little ice age of the 1600’s was the coldest the earth has been in over 6,000 years; the warmth since then is merely the well-documented so-called 1,500 year cycle (which my observation says is closer to 1,000 – 1,200 years.)

Reply to  Peter W
November 11, 2020 2:40 pm

It won’t change a thing. The blame will go to CO2, and the answer will still be getting rid of fossil fuels, and government more power over the people. To Marxists, more government power is the answer to everything.

Tom Abbott
November 11, 2020 4:46 pm

From the article: “The bad news is that Biden’s ability to implement such a transformative domestic agenda appears to be severely limited. Any big spending plans are likely to be stymied by the Senate which, even following run-off races in January, can at best end up a 50-50 partisan split, with Harris as the tiebreaker. Even “moderate” Republicans like Mitt Romney have pledged to “make sure that we conservatives keep on fighting to make sure we don’t have a Green New Deal [and] we don’t get rid of gas and coal and oil”.”

Senator Joe Machin (D-Pennsylvania) said the other day that he would vote against adding Justices to the U.S. Supreme Court and against eliminating the filibuster rule in the Senate. He didn’t say anything about the Green New Deal, but I would bet he would vote against that, too.

So Traitor Joe Biden and the radical Left won’t have it all their own way, if Biden does manage to get into Office.

John Endicott
Reply to  Tom Abbott
November 12, 2020 3:15 am

Joe may manage to get into office just long enough for Nancy and Kamala to article 25 him.

November 12, 2020 5:26 am

Those that are sanguine because the Republicans will have the majority in the Senate need to look again. At best it will be 52-48 and among those 52 are Romney, Murkowski, and Collins. All the Demonazis have to do is buy off 2 of those and you have a 50-50 tie with Kamala Harris casting the deciding vote. Oh and for those of you who think Munchin meant what he said need to go back and look at his votes which rarely align with the Republicans despite earlier comments saying the same thing the past several years. Hey Joe, fool me once, shame on you, fool me again, shame on ME

November 12, 2020 7:43 am

One constant with socialists, they are always convinced that “this time, it’s going to work”.

Reply to  MarkW
November 12, 2020 10:43 am

To quote Bullwinkle: “This time for sure!!!”

Needless to say, yet another failure resulted, as it will under a Biden/Harris administration. Being able to say, “We told you so! You were warned, but you refused to listen” will be small consolation while people have to suffer through rolling blackouts and >$6/gal gasoline.

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