CFACT Challenges Joe Biden to “Spend a Month Without Fossil Fuels”

CFACT: Joe Biden Waving from the Steps of a Private Jet

Guest essay by Eric Worrall

h/t Joe Bastardi; Despite Joe Biden’s rhetoric on the need to end fossil fuel extraction, and electrify transport, he seems to personally burn an awful lot of fossil fuel in his private jet trips. Perhaps Joe Biden’s vision includes an exception for important people like himself, who will still be full allowed access to the conveniences of a fossil fuel powered civilisation.

Joe Biden challenge: Spend a month without fossil fuels

By Joe Bastardi  |October 24th, 2020|Energy|97 Comments

Joe Biden wants to get rid of fossil fuels. This is a position that is either ignorant of facts, or simply preying on the lack of knowledge people have on this matter. IT IS NOT JUST ENERGY APPARENTLY, HE HAS NO IDEA HOW MANY PRODUCTS THAT MAKE YOUR LIFE EASIER RELY ON PETROLEUM!

Its not just the idea we are getting off fossil fuels as a source of energy. Products that are directly produced with petroleum or derivatives of petroleum are not even thought of by the average person, who is being indoctrinated by all this. Either Joe Biden does not understand this, or he does and is preying on the lack of knowledge on this matter by an increasingly indoctrinated public.

So here is the challenge to Joe Biden, Win lose or draw in the upcoming election, I want you your family, and staff to spend 1 month off anything that has a link to fossil fuels.

Read more:

I’d be impressed if Joe Biden tried weening himself off his private jet trips, but I’m not holding my breath.

The idea that America could rapidly transition away from fossil fuel for a cost which is remotely affordable is absurd. With US national debt rapidly approaching 100% of GDP, there is not a lot of room to manoeuvre when it comes to big government infrastructure plans.

If new infrastructure built using borrowed money delivers actual value, such as billions of dollars spent fixing roads and bridges, improving traffic flow, then the growth of GDP resulting from the improved infrastructure might compensate for any increased national debt.

But green infrastructure does not deliver value. The trillions Biden plans to spend on replacing perfectly functional fossil fuel infrastructure would do nothing to grow the economy.

At the end of the green infrastructure build, at best the USA would have something it already has – a power generation and distribution system which services the USA’s electricity needs.

At worst, if US fossil fuel assets are decommissioned, but all the new green infrastructure fails to fulfil the energy needs of America, the USA might have to import its energy from overseas energy giants like Burisma.

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Joel O’Bryan
October 25, 2020 10:39 pm

The Biden-Harris soak the rich tax plan would scuttle any US economic recovery from the COVID19 lunacy. After that economic debacle, paying for a false GND would add insanity on top of crazy. Dems love their insanity.
So higher taxes during a recession, killing 1/4 of the economy and driving up gas prices, while making the US dependent on MiddleEast oil again… Right up the Democrats alley.

Bryan A
October 25, 2020 10:48 pm

Personally I would like to see him refuse to benefit from fossil fuels from now until November 4th.

Reply to  Bryan A
October 26, 2020 12:42 am

if he wins he’ll be in a care home the day after inauguration, if he loses he’ll be going on Nov 5. H will get to play with the jet.

Reply to  Bryan A
October 26, 2020 5:50 am

News flash: Doesn’t matter what Biden says or does. He is certifiably ignorant of an enormous amount of science that involves hydrocarbons, which was something closely examined by astrophysicist Thomas Gold. Hydrocarbons are a universal molecule, found everywhere including on and in gazillions of stars other than our sun.

Noticing that hydrocarbons, organic compounds of hydrogen and carbon, are present on and in other astronomical bodies, Gold reasoned that Earth’s oil might originate from nonliving sources instead of living ones. He argued that an unfathomable amount of hydrocarbons were locked within Earth, and that as they seeped upwards, they were converted to oil and gas. He eventually outlined his theory in a book, The Deep Hot Biosphere, making two other fantastical propositions as well:

“that below the surface of the earth is a biosphere of greater mass and volume than the biosphere the total sum of living things on our planet’s continents and in its oceans… [and] that the inhabitants of this subterranean biosphere are not plants or animals as we know them, but heat-loving bacteria that survive on a diet consisting solely of hydrocarbons that is, natural gas and petroleum.”

In short, Gold claimed that within our world lies another world! An undeniably exciting prospect, there is currently no meaningful method of exploring it. Without evidence, a deep hot biosphere remains in the realm of fiction. We can, however, examine Gold’s original claim, that oil and gas are not fossil fuels, that they are instead abiotic.

I read Gold’s proposal a very long time ago and it made sense, but no one has really followed up on it. If someone bothered to do that, did the research and the work required, then referring to petroleum and natural gas as “fossil fuels” when they aren’t becomes a non sequitur and Biden, as we all know, is shown to be the uninformed individual babbling on about nothing.

Reply to  Sara
October 26, 2020 6:22 am

Biomarkers. Biomarkers are one of the keys to understanding the origins of coal, oil and gas in “fossil fuels.”

Reply to  Sara
October 26, 2020 6:48 am

We have thousands of years of energy available if we can figure out how to extract methane hydrates from the ocean.

Reply to  mkelly
October 26, 2020 7:27 am

No problem, just like mining coal but under a diving bell….

Reply to  mkelly
October 26, 2020 10:07 am

There are huge pockets of that explosive stuff on the Atlantic coast, but many, many feet down where it’s cold enough to keep it frozen. The logistics of mining that are daunting, but if there’s a will, there’s a way.

Reply to  Sara
October 26, 2020 8:37 am

Immediately after the Earth was formed, it was molten. During that period the heavy stuff sank, and the light stuff floated. Because of this it is impossible for there to be hydrocarbons deep in the earth.
Beyond that, hydrocarbons are always found where current theories predict that they will be found, they have never been found elsewhere. If Dr. Gold’s theories were accurate, we would be finding oil and gas everywhere.

Reply to  MarkW
October 26, 2020 10:14 am

Did you try looking within the solar system? No.

Titan is awash in hydrocarbons. You didn’t bother looking for anything. Now tell me why I have to do your homework for you?

Titan’s surface is sculpted by flowing methane and ethane, which carves river channels and fills great lakes with liquid natural gas. No other world in the solar system, aside from Earth, has that kind of liquid activity on its surface.

Titan’s atmosphere is mostly nitrogen (about 95 percent) and methane (about 5 percent), with small amounts of other carbon-rich compounds. High in Titan’s atmosphere, methane and nitrogen molecules are split apart by the Sun’s ultraviolet light and by high-energy particles accelerated in Saturn’s magnetic field.

All info from

Reply to  Sara
October 26, 2020 12:11 pm

Titan’s methane is on the surface, not deep within it.
Looks like you are the one who hasn’t bothered to do any research.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Sara
October 27, 2020 5:26 pm

“Titan’s methane is on the surface, not deep within it.”

That’s an assumption. It may or may not be correct. You certainly don’t know.

Bill Rocks
Reply to  Sara
October 26, 2020 9:43 am

Total BS.
“If someone bothered to do that, did the research and the work required,”. It has been done. The Thomas Gold assertion lacks evidence and has been adequately tested. Do your homework or bring new evidence to the argument.

Reply to  Bill Rocks
October 26, 2020 11:30 am

Uh, Bill, why do you think we’re looking at other planets and other solar systems that are even vaguely like our own???? Why are we even bothering, if it’s already been tested and failed? That doesn’t make any sense.

See my comment re: Titan, Saturn’s largest moon. It is awash in methane (hydrocarbon!!) and ethane (hydrocarbon!!!), and since those have specific signals that can be picked up by an observant observer, there’s a basis for comparison in searching outside this solar system.

Reply to  Sara
October 26, 2020 12:12 pm

Egad, do you always get this hysterical whenever someone proves one of your pet theories wrong? Are you related to Zoe?

Reply to  Sara
October 27, 2020 4:30 am

A – Hysterical? Please expand your vocabulary.
B – I don’t have pet theories, Tootsie.

Reply to  Bill Rocks
October 26, 2020 11:58 am

I don’t know where you get your information about ‘it has been done’ but here’s some additional stuff for you, Bill, from “Astrobiology’.”

Earth-like planets with microbial biospheres may be identified by the presence of CH4—which has a longer atmospheric lifetime under Proxima Centauri’s incident UV—and either photosynthetically produced O2 or a hydrocarbon haze layer. Key Words: Planetary habitability and biosignatures—Planetary atmospheres—Exoplanets—Spectroscopic biosignatures—Planetary science—Proxima Centauri b. Astrobiology 18, 133–189.

CH4 is methane, a hydrocarbon, so that’s one of the things Gold was referring to.

Here’s a link to the entire article. You may find it enlightening… or not.

Reply to  Sara
October 26, 2020 12:14 pm

Nobody has ever denied that there is methane on Titan and other astronomical bodies.
What has been disproven is the wishful thinking that this methane proves that there is a lot of methane in the Earth’s core.

Reply to  Sara
October 26, 2020 12:38 pm

Okay, provide a backup for that, please.

Reply to  Sara
October 26, 2020 2:49 pm

Basic physics.
Every study ever done regarding the make up of the planets core.

Reply to  Bryan A
October 26, 2020 6:23 am

Might as well challenge him to tell the truth.

Reply to  Scissor
October 26, 2020 7:27 am

Scissor, you could post a spew alert as a kindness, you know.

Reply to  Sara
October 26, 2020 4:19 pm

I don’t know what you mean.

I meant that it would be as impossible for Biden to go a month without using fossil fuels as it would be for him to not tell a lie.

sky king
October 25, 2020 10:59 pm

News flash. National debt already exceeds GDP.

Reply to  sky king
October 26, 2020 12:50 am

National debt is a bit like average global temperature, it needs to be “adjusted” to get correct answer.

Reply to  Greg
October 26, 2020 2:39 am

The National debt is past he point where “adjustment” can hide anything. We should leave the trillion area soon for the quadrillion area. I Biden gets in we might hit the fictional bazillion plain.

“That makes the government’s net worth an unbelievable NEGATIVE $21.5 TRILLION.
And that’s a lot worse than the government’s negative net worth of -20.3 trillion in 2017, -19.3 trillion in 2016, -18.2 trillion in 2015, -17.7 trillion in 2014…
Notice the pattern?
If you add their own estimate of Social Security’s unfunded liability, Uncle Sam’s total net worth is NEGATIVE $75 TRILLION… which is almost precisely the size of the entire global economy.”
-theburningplatform April 4, 2019

Reply to  James
October 26, 2020 8:43 am

If they succeed in nationalizing health care, you can expect that the rate at which the debt accumulates to increase by a factor of 5 to 10.

Richard (the cynical one)
October 26, 2020 12:01 am

Hey there, Americans: you only have Dumb and Dumber to choose between. Where is Ross Perot when he is needed?

Reply to  Richard (the cynical one)
October 26, 2020 1:01 am

Absolutely correct;
Nether candidate is fit to lead a donkey never mind the USA ! If out of 320 million these are ‘the best’ you can come up with…then God help America !

Dodgy Geezer
Reply to  saveenergy
October 26, 2020 2:19 am

Almost certainly the people who are running the US (and the UK, and Europe) are already in position and will remain so.

These elections are simplky to chose the front man who will take the blame when things go wrong, and will be replaced on a 4-5 year cycle to give the people the impression that they are able to make a difference.

The real Establishment will get on with running things as it always has…..

Bill Powers
Reply to  Dodgy Geezer
October 26, 2020 6:29 am

That is the truth of the matter Dodgy. The Deep state is our permanent Government. Politicians are hand puppets of the faceless monied elite who place into position of power in the swamp whomever they are instructed to appoint. Which is why the bureaucracy e.g FBI, CIA, IRS thumb there noses at congressional committees. It is all a big stage play.

Demoplican v Republicrat is simply scripted Kabuki Theater played out in front of the Propaganda Media cameras, with the aid of teleprompter scripts, for the unaware and unwashed masses dumbed down by our indoctrin…ahh education system

Reply to  Bill Powers
October 26, 2020 10:23 am

With regard to the Federal bureaucracy itself, you have a point. As to the difference between the GOP and the Dem national parties, I ask you to compare the performance of the 24 states governed by Democrats with the 26 GOP states in response to the pandemic and the protests. While the Venn Diagrams may overlap a bit, I detect a significant difference in assertion of government control over citizen’s behavior in response to Covid, and a refusal to suppress illegal and destructive behavior of the rioters. In both cases, I tend to favor the reaction of typical GOP governments over the Democrat ones. How about you?

Reply to  Bill Powers
October 26, 2020 10:36 am

“These elections are simplky (sp) to chose the front man who will take the blame when things go wrong, and will be replaced on a 4-5 year cycle to give the people the impression that they are able to make a difference.” And then along came Trump. A total anomaly beholden to no one but the people. He may have people whispering in his ear and giving him ideas but he only listens to himself and the people. Hopefully he will be responsible for politics getting back to its’ roots of being the voice of the masses.

Reply to  Bill Powers
October 26, 2020 12:21 pm

Many mainstream Republicans claim that they dislike Democrats, but they hate Trump.
Look at how many of them have declared that they are going to vote for Biden.

Bill Powers
Reply to  Bill Powers
October 26, 2020 12:56 pm

Hiskorr, I am referring to the Federal Swamp in Washington DC. The farther from DC and the closer to the voter that politics get the more apparent the difference becomes in the two parties and how they Govern.

The problem in this Blue State/Red State kerfuffle is really more about Big City population v Rest of State minority. For example take one of the most poorly run states in Flyover country, Illinois. If the rational folks of downstate could figure out a way to jettison Chicago to Indiana. Then Illinois electoral votes would go to Trump and Indiana would never have elected Mike Pence to Govenor of Indiana

It appears the more you stack the people on top of each other the easier it is to bribe them with other peoples money. Or is it that they are the people that constitute the “…Some of the People, all of the time…” group of under-educated idiots that Lincoln warned us about.

Big Al
Reply to  Bill Powers
October 27, 2020 11:18 am

GITMO has new Garden named, Emohwen Setatspeed Gardens. The name is easier for me to pronounce if I read it backwards.

Flight Level
Reply to  saveenergy
October 26, 2020 2:19 am

Why should we save energy ? We are supposed to have plenty, infinitely of it say the greens…

So why should I spend money on solar panels providing free infinite energy and isolation of my house to save energy at the same time?

What kind of fuel one needs to smoke to figure it out ?

Reply to  saveenergy
October 26, 2020 2:44 am

Those two are not the best we can come up with, but here is the problem why no sane person not a narcissist or sociopath will not run for president. The media will dig into your background and make you look a racist, sexist fool. It was reported “so and so” pulled a little girls pigtails in kindergarten, sexist! It was reported in second grade so and so didn’t want to sit next to a black child, racist.
Who needs that crap? So we get narcissists or sociopaths!

Chris Wright
Reply to  saveenergy
October 26, 2020 4:08 am

Trump took the US out of the Paris suicide pact. That alone would get my vote. I passionately hope Trump will win and that Biden will be made to account for his and his family’s criminal activities.
I also hope that Trump will take robust action against Twitter, Facebook and all the other left-wing entities who are actively working to destroy US democracy.

Reply to  Chris Wright
October 26, 2020 7:56 am

Good thoughts.

Reply to  Chris Wright
October 26, 2020 5:55 pm

Trump signed an executive order last week that will establish a new Schedule F for civil service workers involved with policy that will make them easier to fire. Good on him.

Reply to  Richard (the cynical one)
October 26, 2020 1:08 am
Kanye West is running for US president.

Ron Long
Reply to  Richard (the cynical one)
October 26, 2020 3:07 am

[Snip] you. Trump wrote the best selling business book of all time. Where’s your equivalent?

Krudd Gillard of the Commondebt of Australia
Reply to  Richard (the cynical one)
October 26, 2020 4:01 am

what are you on about? Trump is a once-in-a-generation great leader. Without him, there would be no hope for the whole Western Alliance.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Krudd Gillard of the Commondebt of Australia
October 26, 2020 5:59 am

I agree. Trump is one of the few figures who has a clear vision of the world. He is also a man of action and when he sees a problem, he fixes it, if given the chance.

I would say that Trump is a Godsend for the whole world. He will keep the U.S. headed down the “Straight and Narrow” and the rest of the world will come along for the ride, because it will be positive for most of them. The enemies of the United States will be the only ones unhappy.

It’s just too bad Trump can only serve four more years, but if he gets a cooperative Congress, then he can accomplish a lot. I think he will have a cooperative Congress even if the Democrats hold the House. Their second defeat in a row may cause them to look at the world more realistically, the way Trump views the world.

Trump is a “rough and tumble” New Yorker. He once had his limosine pull over to the curb so he could jump out and break up a fight he saw taking place, much to his wife’s dismay.

When Trump gets attacked, and it doesn’t matter who is doing the attacking, he hits back at them twice as hard, and it doesn’t make him look pretty to a lot of people, and he gets attacked on an hourly basis so he has a lot of opportunities to not look pretty, but that doesn’t make him stupid, and it doesn’t make him Hitler.

If the press would treat Trump the way they treat Biden, everything would be happiness and light.

But if you hit Trump, Trump is going to hit you back, and some people like me, like that in him, especially considering who he is hitting back at. They deserve every Trump attack they instigate.

Someone says is Trump the best we can get. Well, I say, name the person that would be better.

Reply to  Krudd Gillard of the Commondebt of Australia
October 26, 2020 5:19 pm

Trump should easily win.
But you have choice other than Biden or Trump.
And Kanye West is much better choice than Biden.
And maybe Dem party will pick him for 2024-
if you think Dem party is not just racist, and lefty hell hole.
Reps normally have issue the their choice having executive experience
whereas Dems obviously don’t regard it as important issue.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  gbaikie
October 27, 2020 5:58 pm

I don’t know if he’ll win. The left is advertising EVERYWHERE for people to get out and vote. Apps I use are in on the act too, apps that have nothing to do with politics. They’re not telling you HOW to vote, just to vote. They’re hoping emotionally charged young people will go out and vote for Biden.

It could backfire on them, but I’m not terribly confident.

John Garrett
Reply to  Richard (the cynical one)
October 26, 2020 6:07 am

Ross Perot was the whole reason the U.S. ended up with the Clinton crime family instead of the re-electing George H. W. Bush.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  Richard (the cynical one)
October 26, 2020 6:16 am

Hey non-Americans. Our Dumb and Dumber seem to be smarter than your Dumber and Dumberer. We are pulling out of the Paris bullcrap and have built up our energy industry. Can’t say as much for the EU, UK, Australia or New Zealand.

Reply to  Richard (the cynical one)
October 26, 2020 8:44 am

Ross Perot would struggle to reach dumb or dumber.

Reply to  MarkW
October 26, 2020 12:17 pm

This is the guy who dropped out of the race because he thought the Bush team was going to disrupt his daughter’s wedding.

Rod Evans
October 26, 2020 12:20 am

I am always intrigued by the “ban fossil fuels” and thus ban plastic, demanded constantly by the Greens.
Their go to energy sources of wind and solar, would cease turning or be unable to transmit the energy generated without plastic insulation around the cables, and without the lubricants needed to smooth the mechanisms of the turbine head.
How exactly do the Greens intend to insulate electrical cable, if fossil fuels are banned?
Further to that question.
How will the Greens carry fresh water into peoples homes reliably, without the plastic pipes and conduits, that have transformed the efficient supply of clean safe drinking water to all communities in the past fifty years?
We might also ask what would happen in our hospitals and care facilities generally, if plastic was banned from everyday use? Catheters, drip lines, syringes protective garments, gloves, masks, monitors, all would become unavailable without fossil fuels.
Joe Biden needs to be careful what he wishes for, because he is of an age, where the items just listed may be important in his daily routine, sooner than he might think…..

Ian Johnson
Reply to  Rod Evans
October 26, 2020 1:41 am

Also plastic wind turbine blades.

Reply to  Rod Evans
October 26, 2020 6:02 am

Pointing out the obvious, Rod Evans? They (the greenbeaners) think that electricity comes out of the wall socket. They really do. They have no understanding of infrastructure and likely never will. They do need their own planet to live on. I hear there’s a viable system at Proxima Centauri. Just don’t know how many giant drooling ants live there.

I have run into people (greenbeaners) who want to go live on another planet and leave Earth’s pollution behind. When asked won’t they be polluting the other planet themselves, they get quite upset, and drop their Large Drink Cups on the sidewalk.

Reply to  Sara
October 26, 2020 11:12 pm

Mars could be quite a toxic environment and/or could be hard to make it more polluted.
Could be, and we can find out more by exploration of Mars
“Martian soil is toxic, due to relatively high concentrations of perchlorate compounds containing chlorine. Elemental chlorine was first discovered during localised investigations by Mars rover Sojourner, and has been confirmed by Spirit, Opportunity and Curiosity. The Mars Odyssey orbiter has also detected perchlorates across the surface of the planet.

The NASA Phoenix lander first detected chlorine-based compounds such as calcium perchlorate. The levels detected in the Martian soil are around 0.5%, which is a level considered toxic to humans. These compounds are also toxic to plants. ”

But also could mine the perchlorates and make Mars soil less toxic.
So if living Mars one could be involved making Mars less toxic.

Reply to  Rod Evans
October 26, 2020 6:28 am

Also, at least the way it is made now, carbon is used to reduce SiO2 to make silicon for solar panels and the energy used to drive this reaction is mainly fossil fuel derived.

Carl Friis-Hansen
October 26, 2020 12:31 am

Not sure if the Amish still live with very little fossil fuel. There appears to be some transition in more recent centuries within the communities. Despite that, I suppose the Amish lifestyle mostly satisfies the Green agenda.

Joe Biden, what about a one month holiday living as and with the Amish?
Even if the Amish are not totally fossil fuel free, they may teach you about an earthbound life and essential values.

Reply to  Carl Friis-Hansen
October 26, 2020 1:30 am

Cue – Amish Paradise

Reply to  Carl Friis-Hansen
October 26, 2020 3:15 am

They have oil lamps or electric ones on their buggies??

(they do have lights?)

Reply to  griff
October 26, 2020 4:45 am

They burn wood OIL OR COAL for heating.

All produce CO2.

Reply to  Carl Friis-Hansen
October 26, 2020 6:31 am

I’ve seen them use plastic spreaders (horse drawn), tanks and troughs in the field and plastic bags for their breads and bakery items that they sell.

October 26, 2020 12:52 am

But he doesn’t want to get rid of fossil fuels overnight… he wants to do it over more than a decade of serious investment in the alternatives.

Climate believer
Reply to  griff
October 26, 2020 1:18 am


Rod Evans
Reply to  griff
October 26, 2020 1:21 am

What alternatives to oil based plastic insulation has he come up with griff? If he intends to do his ban within the ten year time frame you suggest. What industrial process has he in mind, for replacing the insulation chemistry/industry that has developed over the past 100 years?
Come on give a clue….

Reply to  Rod Evans
October 26, 2020 1:57 am

Griffy aint got a clue .
He is but a useful idiot as he cannot think for himself .

Reply to  Gwan
October 26, 2020 3:16 am

I’m just looking at science – the science of observed physical results primarily, then at actual investment in functional renewable technologies. And the science and the level of investment backs my point of view, not yours…

Reply to  griff
October 26, 2020 4:00 am

You have NEVER looked at any science.

You assiduously avoid doing so. !

Science shows that so-called “renewables” (wind and solar) are disruptive, unreliable, highly polluting at all stages of manufacturing and removal.

Economically they are only a sound investment as long as they are back by huge government funding and mandates.

Carl Friis-Hansen
Reply to  griff
October 26, 2020 4:02 am

Griff, if you base this on CO2 politics, then have a listen to someone who is better educated than both You and I:

Reply to  griff
October 26, 2020 8:50 am

Once again the griff collective is either lying, or lying to itself.
There is no science that proclaims that all of the recent warming is due to CO2.
There is no science that proclaims that the current warming is anything unusual.

I love how griff claims that because government spends a lot of money on something, this proves that this something is economically viable.

Reply to  griff
October 26, 2020 1:30 pm

Griff if you’re looking at ‘science’ when it comes to grid scale solar & wind power generation, storage & dispatch, you’re looking at the wrong discipline.

You need to look to ENGINEERING.

Reply to  Rod Evans
October 26, 2020 3:13 am

I’m not aware that plastic insulation or any of the other plastic consumer products are primary generators of CO2.

Plastic insulation, even plastic bottles, synthetic clothing will continue to be produced.

this is a ban on fossil fuel burning, not fossil fuel products

Reply to  griff
October 26, 2020 4:04 am

OMG, you dolt.

Plastics are made from fossil fuels !!

You only use some fractions of the fossil fuels to make plastics.

Are you just going to throw the rest away. !

Reply to  fred250
October 26, 2020 7:11 am

Yes, the green idiots are so very ignorant of the way the things work.

There are few processes as efficient and fully sustainable as oil refining. Hardly anything goes to waste.

Bryan A
Reply to  fred250
October 26, 2020 10:14 am

And, ignoring/eliminating the primary energy source that Oil presents while only concentrating on its secondary uses will dramatically increase the price of each and every product produced using fossil fuels and their derivatives as the primary use is eliminated to cover the cost of locating and extracting.
Your rubber tires will cost thousand$ rather than hundred$ and plastics will be priced like gold.
The cost of mining Coal will be borne by the cost of Steel and Solar Panels rather than ameliorated by electricity production

Reply to  griff
October 26, 2020 1:32 am

Glad to see that even you understand the UTTER STUPIDITY of the idea, griff.

What alternatives……

The alternative they preach POLLUTE far more in their manufacture, usage and de-commissioning.

They absolutely require FOSSIL FUELS to build them anyway.

It cannot be done without the massive use of FOSSIL FUELS, probably more than they will actually save.

And for what ????

Absolutely ZERO scientific reason what-so-evah !

Even your mantra-numbed little mind must start to see the facts and REALITY at some stage. !

Reply to  fred250
October 26, 2020 3:19 am

Transition to net zero is far from easy, but it is surely doable… as more renewables are installed, so the next generation of renewables gets produced with less fossil fuel. The curve of investment gets ever steeper…

And there is plenty of evidence that the climate is changing due to a new, additional climate driver, human produced CO2.

Reply to  griff
October 26, 2020 4:12 am


It is a waste of time money and resources.

It will accomplish absolutely NOTHING.

You have NEVER produced any scientific evidence that atmospheric CO2 causes any warming whatsoever …

.. and you are INCAPABLE of doing so.

You have NOTHING to back up your brain-hosed mantra claims….

You are a scientific abyss.

Wake up out of your mind-numbed fantasy world !

Come on.. put your empty “science” , to the test..

1… Do you have any empirical scientific evidence for warming by atmospheric CO2?
NO, You don’t

2… In what ways has the global climate changed in the last 50 years , that can be SCIENTIFICALLY proven to be of human causation?
There is NONE

We are all WAITING !!

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  griff
October 26, 2020 6:04 am

Idiocy. Who supplies you with this nonsense for regurgitation?

Reply to  griff
October 26, 2020 8:52 am

As always, the griff collective assumes that any change in the climate must have been caused by CO2. As all good warmunists know, prior to man, the climate never changed.

Reply to  MarkW
October 26, 2020 10:39 am

No need to even discuss the CO2 issue. Griff mentions “as more renewables are installed”.
How many articles here mention the very limited % of energy from renewables, and the very limited % of new installed renewables, and the impossibility of adding NEW % of renewables when the old stuff begins to become inefficient or inoperable and cannot be replaced as quickly as it is taken offline while attempting to add NEW capacity.

And that is just for CURRENT electrical demand, ignoring the added demand from electric transportation vehicles.

BTW, Obiden mentioned eliminating oil fuels in 5 years.

Reply to  MarkW
October 26, 2020 3:19 pm

And yet somehow, the bones of hippopotamus are found in the river Thames.

Reply to  griff
October 26, 2020 2:31 am

And most of the clothes he wares Griff. Unless they are wool, cotton or or animal skin and hides are made from fossil fuels. His TV is also made from plastic as is his laptop and phone. The list goes on and on, kitchen utensils, kettles, the containers for his medication which at his age he must be taking.

Getting rid of fossil fuels. Humbug.

Reply to  RexAlan
October 26, 2020 2:53 am

Anything metal is also made using fossil fuels.

There is very little in modern life that doesn’t use fossil fuels at some stage in its manufacture or delivery.

Reply to  RexAlan
October 26, 2020 3:14 am

Gettting rid of electricity generation by fossil fuels and their use in transport and heating…

Reply to  griff
October 26, 2020 4:18 am

You are living a hallucinogenic fueled FANTASY, griff.

It is a pointless waste of time, money and resources

…. that will achieve absolutely NOTHING to solve an imaginary NON-PROBLEM.

Reply to  griff
October 26, 2020 8:54 am

… is impossible if you want to keep a modern industrial society.

Carl Friis-Hansen
Reply to  griff
October 26, 2020 2:50 am

It is rubbery!

When you invest in the grid, the power plants and the whole infrastructure, you do that conservatively with tested and mature technology with an expected lifespan of around 50 years.
Secondly there is neither sound technical nor client economic reason to not let a competitive free marked decide how electricity is produced. Plant food aught not to have anything to do with it.

Don’t starve the plants
Support plants with CO2

Reply to  griff
October 26, 2020 3:00 am

Can never get rid of fossil fuels for electricity generation unless nuclear is adopted, which the DIMS hate as well. As renewables approach 100% of generation capacity (meaning ZERO fossil fuel back-up) as the DIMS want, the battery storage requirements approach 100% less any baseload such as nuclear or even hydro. In the US an optimistic level is 50%. We currently use 4,000,000 GWh per year. But if all transport and heating goes electrical then that doubles. So we will need 4,000,000 Gwh of battery back-up to provide 50% for when the sun don’t shine and the wind don’t blow. Musk’s gigafactor produces 35Gwh of batteries per year at a cost of $5billion. To provide the backup to go fully weather dependent renewable will take 114,000 years using that single plant, so increase to 100 plants, it will take 1142 years or 1000 plants it will take 11.4 years. So doable for an investment of 5T or so. Problem is there isn’t enough lithium, copper, nickel and other metals to support such a large battery output. And the batteries are not renewable. And this is just to all for the back-up storage for power generation. What about the same materials and plants needed for the EV industry itself. And what about Europe and Asia as they plan to go the same mad route? Biden and the rest are all pandering to their base.

Reply to  griff
October 26, 2020 3:10 am

“…. he doesn’t want to get rid of fossil fuels ”
Hi Griffo
He just wants to get rid of someone called George !

Reply to  Vuk
October 26, 2020 8:56 am

So griff, was Biden lying when he stated during the debate that he wants to transition away from the fossil fuel industry?

Or are you lying. Again.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  griff
October 26, 2020 6:18 am

Because he’ll be gone by then and won’t have to live with the consequences.

Reply to  griff
October 26, 2020 6:34 am

He literally said that the U.S. must get to net zero carbon emissions by 2025. Of course, he also said 200 million people had died of CV19 in the U.S. and he wants a $15 million/hour minimum wage, among other numerous gaffes.

The guy can’t do numbers.

Reply to  griff
October 26, 2020 8:47 am

We’ve already had decades of serious investment in alternatives, and we still can’t find one that works.

Coeur de Lion l
October 26, 2020 1:37 am

What is his line on sub-Saharan Africa’s lack of electricity? Does he agree that large numbers of coal fired power stations should be built? If not what? But black lives don’t matter, of course.

Reply to  Coeur de Lion l
October 26, 2020 9:09 am

To them, black lives only matter when they support Democrat politicians.

October 26, 2020 1:53 am

There are many ways to make plastic, or even avgas, without fossil fuels. They are in their infancy, as, at the momenet, it is cheaper to make them from oil/coal. The whole point of a transition, is to move away from fossil fuels, but not overnight.

You may have heard of Unilever- they’re going fossil fuel free by 2030

Anything that is made from fossil fuels, can be made other ways, as you just need to start with sustainably sourced carbon (e.g from plants).

Rod Evans
Reply to  Tony
October 26, 2020 3:00 am

Ah yes Tony, bioplastics. I had not forgotten that option, but as they represent 0.2% of the plastics market their scale up of 500 fold increase needed to meet current and growing market demand looks impossible from where I am sitting.
It is also worth noting, the increase in plastic demand every year, is multiple times greater than the whole bioplastic industry. With that being the situation, bioplastics could never grow fast enough to meet world demand.
Never say never though. We could always rob the whales of their plankton to feed the bio plastics industries needed in the future….

Reply to  Rod Evans
October 26, 2020 6:44 am

Someone could drive around for a month with diesel made from Michael Moore.

Ben Vorlich
Reply to  Tony
October 26, 2020 3:50 am

“Anything that is made from fossil fuels, can be made other ways, as you just need to start with sustainably sourced carbon (e.g from plants).”

Just how much land is required to replace all fossil fuels for non-energy uses? How nuch land is required to replace fossil fuel energy? Is taking land which has not been used for intensive agriculture an environmentally friendly thing to do when carbon from plants and animals has been stored for us already?

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  Ben Vorlich
October 26, 2020 4:33 am

In tiny Massachusetts- in the past years, about 8,000 acres of forest has been utterly destroyed by converting that land to solar “farms”. Yet, on most days, solar only accounts for about 3% of the state’s electricity production. But this state intends to go “net free” by 2050- including of course transportation and heat. I keep asking state politicians how can this happen? How much of the state will be converted to solar “farms”? They don’t answer. Recently, my emails to state politicians has been blocked. When I bitched about this- I talked to the chief of staff of a key state senator- who told me that the politicians don’t have to get my emails with such questions. The IT people running the servers for the state legislature said such email is spam. Massachusetts is clearly the most fanatic of all states- beyond CA. Reading/watching any media in this state- you’ll never see any skepticism of the “climate catastrophe”- most people in this state are not even aware that it exists- yet, the state intellectuals want to think it’s the most sophisticated place in the world.

Carl Friis-Hansen
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
October 26, 2020 5:33 am

“The IT people running the servers for the state legislature said such email is spam.”

It is apparently getting worse than we thought.

Ten years ago I wrote similarly to the Danish energy minister.
At least back then she wrote a typical Griff-answer™️ back to me.

Peter W
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
October 26, 2020 7:06 am

Back in 1981/82 Reagan was predicting the collapse of Russia. At the same time, multiple Massachusetts institutions Ph.D’s, including Paul Samuelson, author of the most widely used textbook on economics, were claiming that the Soviets were making great progress and were going to overtake the U.S. economically.

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  Peter W
October 26, 2020 8:54 am

Now we can see why Obama wanted his new mansion on Cape Cod. He’s a short distance from Boston, the capital of the People’s Republic of Massachusetts. Hey, we do have famous universities and great hospitals- but most industry left the state. All towns have countless empty/rotting factory buildings. I’ve photographed many but I’d like to do a large photo study of all the dead factories in this state.

Dudley Horscroft
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
October 26, 2020 8:49 am

Try by-passing the IT server by sending your mail as snail mail. Should at least get to the office, and someone may read it.

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  Dudley Horscroft
October 26, 2020 8:57 am

Apparently, it’s always the staff who read any snail mail. And they don’t show most of it to the politician. That’s how I managed to connect to the chief of staff to a state Senator- they guy who told me I better shape up and stop sending such emails. What they really don’t like is that I’d send to many at once- and to environmentalists and others. They didn’t like the exposure and my tough questions which they can’t answer.

Jerry Palmer
Reply to  Tony
October 26, 2020 6:04 am

Every day we are bombarded with stories about how modern farming methods to grow food are “damaging the environment”.. but growing biofuels and bioplastics is OK?

Hypocrisy, or stupidity?

Reply to  Tony
October 26, 2020 6:26 am

Wow I’m very impressed by the plans of Unilever….NOT. Most housewives know perfectly how to clean and or wash with a mix of these:

Sounds like greenwashing to me. Marketing BS.

Reply to  Tony
October 26, 2020 6:42 am

It’s a scam that ignores basic inputs, conservation of mass and energy. There is no such thing as “carbon free” sugar for example, but that doesn’t stop scam artists from making the claim.

Barry Sheridan
October 26, 2020 2:01 am

Let us be candid, those who advocate for these policies have little concept of how the world works, this includes Mr. Biden. If they are stupid enough, and this is possible, to attempt to do what they say they will do then the ordinary people of the world will re-acquaint themselves with real poverty. That will at least wake them up from the fantasies that most claim to cherish.

Moderately Cross of East Anglia
October 26, 2020 2:05 am

Is a baked planet anything liked baked Alaska? I’m only surprised some bake shop chain hasn’t jumped on this and started selling baked planet buns – or Biden buns – crispy and nice on the outside but full of bs on the inside. Not buying any of it….

Flight Level
October 26, 2020 2:40 am

Baked planet ? When ?

Last time I checked, there were plenty of good reasons to keep the anti-ice systems in serviceable condition.

Pease keep me updated.

October 26, 2020 3:49 am

News today:

Japan’s prime minister, Yoshihide Suga, has said the country will become carbon neutral by 2050, heralding a bolder approach to tackling the climate emergency by the world’s third-biggest economy.

“Responding to climate change is no longer a constraint on economic growth,” Suga said on Monday in his first policy address to parliament since taking office.

“We need to change our thinking to the view that taking assertive measures against climate change will lead to changes in industrial structure and the economy that will bring about growth.”

To applause from MPs, he added: “I declare we will aim to realise a decarbonised society.”

Reply to  griff
October 26, 2020 4:31 am

LOL.. Virtue seeking is such a childish thing for world leaders to do

Closing old out-dated coal fired power, replacing now with new coal and gas, which will still be operating well past 2050.

In total, Japan has 140 coal-fired power plants, providing nearly one-third of the nation’s total electricity generation. Coal is the second-biggest power-generation method behind LNG-fired plants, which provide 38 percent of the nation’s needs.

You REALLY think the Japanese people want wind turbines over their beautiful country side.

You are truly a gullible little child, griff.

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  griff
October 26, 2020 4:35 am

Saying it is one thing- doing it is something else. Only a fool would believe what any politician says is actually going to happen.

Reply to  griff
October 26, 2020 4:41 am

And of course, these idiotic pledges by virtue-seeking politicians will come quickly to an end as the planet starts to cool and the AGW religion is proven the FARCE/HOAX/SCAM that it is.

Climate believer
Reply to  griff
October 26, 2020 5:00 am

….says a politician whose economy just shrank 27.8%…… betcha he’s clutching at straws.

I’m sure “The Climate™” will be rescued by the removal of the 3.5% share of global CO² Japan produces.

Shutting down their nuclear reactors must have got the ball rolling, can’t wait for all the ice to come back!

Carl Friis-Hansen
Reply to  griff
October 26, 2020 6:32 am

As fred250 says above, this is the usual voter garbage.

Look at the numbers instead:
At least $1.61 billion supporting fossil fuel energy $12.73 per capita
At least $46.19 million supporting clean energy $0.37 per capita

If you look at the chart a bit further down, you will see that public money “clean” energy, the green color on the bars, is non existent, at least on my screen.

Same thing as when politicians promise tailwind for cyclists. – Yes, a Danish politician once promised exactly that years ago in order to emphasize the impossibilities politicians frequently promise to get voters.

Reply to  griff
October 26, 2020 9:13 am

In griff’s world, having a politician make a claim is proof that the claim is possible.

Suga will be out of office decades before 2050 rolls around, so the failure won’t hurt him.

October 26, 2020 4:22 am

Having a politician live according to his statements is harder then having him give up teeth whitener, hair gel, tanning spray, and manicures.

Eamon Butler
October 26, 2020 5:21 am

To be Fossil fuel free, he will be naked and starving in the wilderness.

Harry Passfield
October 26, 2020 5:47 am

If your enemy (let’s call it China or Islamist State for the sake of argument) is not preparing to denude itself of the most efficient (currently) and abundant source of energy it would serve you well to stay alert. When the West is well on the way to ‘zero carbon’ (yuck!), the Chinese will be well on the way to global dominance – and the Biden family and other useful idiots well on the way to pointless riches.

Reply to  Harry Passfield
October 26, 2020 6:45 am

Exactly right, with the blessings of useful idiots that likely will be among the first to be disappeared.

Bruce Cobb
October 26, 2020 6:22 am

The GreenMind™ is one rife with misinformation on climate regarded as “science” and a “solution” to a non-problem which they laughably claim to be “cheaper”, in addition to “saving the planet”. Wrong on both counts. There are a host of hidden agendas with Greenie ideology, but of course the biggest motivators are money and power, at the expense of everyone, but most especially those who can least afford it. In addition to all their other huge faults, Greenies are guilty of both elitism as well as hypocrisy, which they pose as being concern for the planet. In religious terms, it would be as if the Devil himself (or herself) dressed as, and pretended to be Jesus. Diabolical.

October 26, 2020 6:29 am

Modern agriculture without fossil fuel is seldom discussed, except for Dr. Patrick Moore. Humans need the food produced by modern agricultural machinery power by large diesel engines. Running a combine is not the same as powering a Tesla. Combines can’t stop every four hours to recharge. Think about the length of the extension cord.

Carl Friis-Hansen
October 26, 2020 6:46 am

Why is it oil-billionaires are the ones to get off oil?

Think Maurice Strong, the Biden family, etc.
There must be a common nominator.

Al Miller
Reply to  Carl Friis-Hansen
October 26, 2020 7:13 am

Because like Jerry Brown the hypocrite from Kalifornia they want to ensure they have n oil monopoly!

Al Miller
October 26, 2020 7:12 am

If hypocrites were banned the anti fossil fuel group would consist of an empty room when they met.

October 26, 2020 7:33 am

Biden’s quote “We’re not getting rid of fossil fuels for a long time… probably 2050”. Biden has yet to comprehend the limitations of just electricity from renewables to support worldwide economies and lifestyles. Biden and the world need to comprehend that energy is more than intermittent electricity from wind and solar. The world we know today, demands thousands of products made from oil derivatives that are essential to our medical industry, electronics, communications, transportation infrastructure, electricity generation, cooling, heating, manufacturing, and agriculture—indeed, virtually every aspect of our daily lifestyles and economies.

David S
October 26, 2020 1:02 pm

Following up on the idea of challenging Biden, I sent an email to my Senators challenging them to eliminate their fossil fuel use:
Dear Senator
Joe Biden is pledging to end the use of fossil fuels. I think Congress should help by stopping the use of fossil fuels in the Capitol power plant (CPP). The CPP currently uses fossil fuels, mostly natural gas. The energy is used to produce steam for heating and chilled water for air conditioning for most of the government buildings in D.C. You should lead by example. Shut down the CPP. That will mean no heat in the Senate or the House of Representatives or the White House. You will just have to wear warm clothes. But that will be a small sacrifice to show your dedication to the cause. Also you must reduce the use of electricity by the percentage which is produced from fossil fuels. Nationwide that number is about 60%.

You must also stop flying as jets are 100% powered by fossil fuels.
You must stop traveling by cars as almost all of them are powered by fossil fuels.

Do these things and show the world how it’s done.

October 26, 2020 8:44 pm

It was never about science with these people. It was that it just so happened the the proposed solutions are the same they were advocating for decades. I mean come on man (as Biden says), the vast majority of liberals get watered down brainwashed liberal arts, gender studies, sociology, etc. degrees, if they even went to college. They neither understand nor care about the science. It’s just an excuse to tell others what to do, and to divide people into the virtuous and the enemy.

William Haas
October 28, 2020 1:50 pm

Those that believe that the use of fossil fuels is bad should stop making use of all goods and services that involve the use of fossil fuels. That includes clothing whose manufacture, transport, and or sale involves the use of fossil fuels in any way. That includes buildings that were made with materials whose manufacture, transport, and sale involved the use of fossil fuels or were constructed by workers who wore cloths, ate food, lived in buildings and traveled to the work site using vehicles that involved the use of fossil fuels. That also includes food whose production, transport, and or sale somehow involved the use of fossil fuels. No standing on surfaces that involved the use of fossil fuels, that even includes most dirt roads, lawns, or farmer’s fields or even land that was once forest but has been cleared.

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