Guest essay by Eric Worrall
Works great, providing you can afford the expense, don’t hit a strong headwind, and enjoy the adventure of exploring country towns while waiting for a recharge.
Electric car put to the test in regional and rural NSW
By Ben Deacon and Rosie King
Posted 6 hours ago, updated 2 hours agoMore than 60 public electric vehicle charging stations are being built this year around regional New South Wales, Victoria and Queensland in a bid to make electric cars a more practical option in regional Australia.
But will this be enough to make electric vehicles (EVs) work in the bush?
To find out, I hit the highway for a 1,200-kilometre regional road trip in an electric car.
In the end, I made it home — just.
…
Leaving Sydney, the car told me I had a range of 410 kilometres, leaving me a margin of 70 kilometres. Tight, but doable.
But outside Sydney, I drove into the teeth of headwinds strong enough to shake the car.
Very quickly, the car started recalculating the range. It was now telling me I wouldn’t make it to Jugiong. The headwinds were drastically affecting the range of the car.
…
I was pretty sure I’d make it, but if the charging station was out of order, the car would go flat.
…
The last 40 kilometres before Yass was a white-knuckle experience.
…
What I didn’t know was how long it would take to charge the car, which was almost dead flat.
…
There’s a natural relationship between regional touring in an electric car and lunch. Instead of fast food at a highway service station, the longer charge times of electric cars lend themselves to a more relaxed schedule to poke around a small town. It is less “pit stop” and more “electric back roads”.
…
Read more: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-06/how-practical-are-electric-cars-in-regional-australia/12731896
What can I say – No sale.
I could imagine myself one day buying a hybrid, if the cost comes down. A lot of my driving is short range school runs and shopping trips, it would be kind of cool to mostly keep the car topped up from home.
But I would miss the convenience of just filling up the tank if I’m in a hurry, or if I forgot to plug in the charger. I sometimes make one day business journeys well over 500km return. Having to stop for an hour every few hundred km on a long distance trip, suffering range anxiety if the weather turns, would just drive me nuts.
The ABC “regional and rural” test looks like a pretty benign road route. You don’t have to get far off main roads in Australia to encounter some shocking driving conditions. Tip for tourists, if you plan to explore anywhere further than 50 miles from the coast in Australia, and don’t plan to stick to major motorways, your “A” road could turn out to be a bumpy dirt track. Hire a gasoline or diesel 4WD.
I guess one of those cell-phone battery extenders wouldn’t be of much use, huh?
Keep a diesel genny in the trunk
Jerry cans are easier.
Speaking of reality checks with aerodynamics, I see a lot of high fuel economy cars with cargo bags and boxes mounted on the roof racks. Do these people stop thinking about fuel economy after the purchase?
Yes!
They only bought car to feel good about the fuel economy (and maybe brag about it to their friends). Once they got it, they want to use it for the real world – which means carrying people and luggage.
Textbook example of virtue signaling.
I would like to see this
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15112705/2013-tesla-model-s-vs-1915-ford-model-t-race-of-the-centuries-feature/
happen down there
No
Depends on how often they do it. Strapping a bunch of bags and what have you for a yearly camping/vacation trip isn’t ignoring fuel efficiency. If they had to do it on a weekly basis I suspect that they’d have bought a pick-up.
Good comment. We take biking vacations. Several years ago I used a trunk mounted rack on a 2009 Chevrolet Malibu with a 4-cyl. that got 31mpg on the highway. With the two bikes on the rack it got 25 mpg – the same highway mileage as our V-6 SUV with the two bikes on the hitch mounted rack. The SUV loses only 1-2 mpg carrying the bikes as the wheels are slightly in the slipstream. As they say, your mileage may vary.
I have a 2006 Chevy Impala with 5L V6, and 341,000 miles on it. Still gets about 31 mpg on the highway. We use it primarily for routine trips we make of about 650 miles, nearly all Interstate driving. In the 9.5 to 10 hr. trip we usually make one stop for gas at about 430 miles from one starting point. Doesn’t matter much whether it is sunny and clear out, or driving at night, with either heat or A/C, and rain or snow (wipers). Our stop for gas and bathroom break is usually 15 minutes or less.
I hadn’t thought about a headwind as a confounding factor, but heat or A/C, windshield wipers, and headlights must all make a big difference in an EV, but make little difference in an ICE. Who would take one on such a trip in winter way up north? I prefer to not have to worry about it.
I had a couple of diesel Peugeot 304 staion wagons that got about 35 to 40 mpg and could do 600 miles on a tank. No drama getting diesel in the country. Drove beautifully and the aerodynamics and handling were so well engineered that you could not tell if you wer doing 35 or 95 mph. It was French, blond and only frank diesel, my kind of mistress (sorry grrls, bute guys gotta be guys. Its that Y Not? chromasome).
That said my wife had a Prius hybrid which was even leaner on the juice and which we used as the town car. A sensible compromise I thought.
PS The Peugeots and the Prius were second hand with big km on the clocks and all cost in the AUD 5k – 10k range. Why the hell would I pay AUD 50k for an electric juggernaut?
We visit family once or twice a year. It’s 1400 km to get there and of course 1400 km back. We fill it up with diesel (70 liter tank) just before the French border and again in Luxembourg. That makes it 1000 km and depending on the weather there is still for 100/200 km left. (Audi A4 2007 )
This year we will use our new car a Seat Exeo 2013 (so in reality an Audi A4) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEAT_Exeo This car should be even more fuel efficient they say)
We just have a week so the less time we lose on the road the better. Normally it takes us about 14 hours.
As long as I can’t buy an electric car that can do the same they are of no use to me.
Now imagine everyone hitting the road with an electric car during the same holiday week and we all leave more or less at the same moment. That means that after 400/600 km all refueling stations in that area would be full of cars in need of an electric charge.
Oops. Typo. 3.5L V6, not 5L. Doesn’t matter, actually. We do get different gas mileage on the two legs, about 31 on the “uphill” trip and almost 34 going “downhill”.
We buy the fuel economy car so we can drive further for the same $$.
No savings, no less CO2, see more of the world
Win win
Does depend on the car.
A small car also increases likelihood of death in an accident, severely.
I had a period where 3 people I knew personally, all died in single car accidents – that were not alcohol related – because their tiny vehicles basically pancaked.
I refuse to drive economy and compact sized cars to this day.
Every car will be pancaked between 2 trucks.
And every car in a 100mph collision.
But the lion’s share of traffic accidents occur at speeds under 50mph and don’t involve big semis. In those, your vehicle’s structural strength or lack thereof is very much a valid factor in whether or not you’re bound for the hospital or the morgue.
Drove by an accident where a Smart car tangled with a full size Chevy pickup. The scene was not pretty for that Smart car (obviously totaled), pickup looked like it had been in a minor fender bender. Size does matter in the automotive industry.
If you’re curious this happened on an on ramp to the freeway, speed limit is 55mph in that area but at a time of day where the speed limit is rarely reached. From looks of things pickup rear ended the Smart car, turned it and mashed in the driver side. At a guess either the pickup driver wasn’t paying attention to the Smart car driver, couldn’t see that speck of metal in front (huge front end on those Chevy’s) or the Smart car driver stopped hard for some reason. There was no third car present but since this was mid on ramp there could of been a car in front of the Smart car that hard stopped. Check the news out of curiosity but there was no story so assume everyone made it out OK.
Darrin says ”
“pickup rear ended the Smart car”
———————
A Smart Car is analogous to a golf ball sitting on an invisible moving tee.
Sooner, or later it’s going to meet up with a “driver”.
That depends, ResourceGuy, on how frequently they do that. You are only seeing them that one time. Their normal day-to-day driving might not involve carting around cargo bags and boxes and what you are seeing is the exception to their normal driving needs, not the rule. You can’t judge how people “think about fuel economy after the purchase” based on the rare exceptional usage, you need to base it off of their much more frequent typical usage. One or two fuel inefficient drives a year (to take the family on vacation, for example) doesn’t undo 364 days of fuel efficient driving.
That said, if they were typically carting around cargo bags and boxes like that on a daily basis, then yeah, they didn’t choose wisely when they purchased their vehicle. But since people tend to have their daily usage in mind when buying, I don’t think there are many such people that would fall into that category (IE those that would normally be carting around such things on a frequent basis would typically opt for an SUV or truck instead as those would be more suited for their daily needs).
Someday we will riminess about the days when we had the freedom to choose. We are still in that dream time for now but the dark forces of policy progressives with claimed consensus for making radical change are building strength. You’ll have a choice of 200, 400, or 500 km range depending on your income…… and who you know on the Climate Justice court.
riminess?? reminisce?
In a warming world, riminess will be a thing of the past.
….and rimless
It means circling on the edge.
“On a hot day I dive straight in, but when it is cooler I tend to riminess around the pool.”
In every country with a Direct Taxation system you already are a slave. Maybe they make the prison look like gold but it is still a prison. We have been living in 1984 for a very long time and new data storing capacity will only make it worse.
I’m yet to drive an all-electric car, but I’d certainly be interested in trying one for a weekend. I like the idea of a less mechanically complicated engine and instant torque. It could make for a fun drive. Would it be my everyday car? Maybe for the commute, once driving to and from the office is back in fashion of course, as I would have access to the HOV/green traffic lanes. But regardless, I think my primary vehicle would be an ICE.
That hugely complex engine will last longer than the electric’s battery, and cost less to replace.
I hope you’re right! I recently purchased a new car with a twin-turbo V6. 🙂
Audi? Engine out for timing belts every 2-3 years…..
Kia Stinger GT AWD, so uncharted territory. 😉 I chipped in for the extended warranty.
Auto companies are going back to the more expensive timing chains as a result of belt failures. (Toyota has a special-rubber belt with a very long lifetime, it claims.)
Roger Knights says :
” Toyota has a special-rubber belt with a very long lifetime, it claims.”
————————————–
Claims are an early stage of what often becomes recalls
Current electric car batteries have lifespans longer than the car itself – figure over 17 years.
Tesla and others will have 1 million mile batteries this coming year. One Chinese battery maker claims a 1.25 million mile battery. You (or your car) won’t live long enough to wear out the battery – might swap into next car
Sure…my LED lightbulbs came with a 25 year year warranty 2-3 years ago, and now the Chinese company isn’t even in business anymore, or changed their name. Now the lightbulbs are all winking out. Not that I would still have the receipt anyway. If you think EV batteries are now going to last 17 years, with a 1 million mile battery, then you are even more deluded than we/you think. Stick to your molten salt reactors…at least that is a dream and not the propaganda of a 17 year battery with a 1.25 million mile battery.
Excellent point. Just changes a LED bulb that started winking out. It hadn’t been in the socket all that much longer than the old fashioned incandescent use to last. so much for the longer life claims.
ColMosby says :
“Tesla and others will have 1 million mile batteries this coming year. One Chinese battery maker claims a 1.25 million mile battery.”
—————————————–
“will have” is future tense. This, and China’s “claims” requires independently verifiable evidence of MTBF.
The real “proof of the pudding” is two part.
1 ) Will both warranty the batteries to those levels ?
2 ) Do both have the capital ( ha ha ! China … capital ) to fulfill those warranty’s in bulk, over the twenty odd years an average driver would do a million miles ?
In the testing of these batteries and electric motors, do they run them in >1 million miles in many different vehicles over all of the different road surface types likely to be met by the ‘average’ driver? (tar, gravel, pot-holes, dust, bull-dust – in Oz this is different to normal dust – rain, hail, and shine) plus how the vehicle is driven (Sunday driver, daily commute, hooning, multiple short/long distances, etc).
Real life is very different to the laboratory
Some people actually think that going from laboratory to real world is easy.
sure, I just walk out the door and the real world is right there.
None of the concepts I work on have made the trip with me though…
and you believe that shameless propaganda?? My ex G/F was assured her Tesla3 would do 300 KMS in winter no problem, truth is 150! and nothe batteries last 1000 cycles unless supercharged as that shortens their life so at an average of 250 KMS per charge that 250000 kms, thats 5years for me! except no EV will do what my car does, 2200 kms in 22 hours.
Uh huh, and after 6 months of use I have to charge my cellphone 3 to 4 times a day.
Geo Rubic says :
“Uh huh, and after 6 months of use I have to charge my cellphone 3 to 4 times a day.”
————————————————-
So true. I’ve had hobby uses for rechargeable batteries for 30-40 years. Every new generation of rechargeables were marked by the same “sales puffing”. Failed at claimed capacity even brand new. Then capacity degraded quickly from there. Failed at how many charges it would take before totally pooching.
No reason yet to not strongly suspect we are being “puffed at” again
So they claim. How many current electric car batteries have been in real world operation for over 17 years? **ZERO**. How many Tesla “1 million mile batteries” (or Chinese 1.25 million mile batteries) have been on the roads in real world operation for 1 million miles? **ZERO**. Claims are easy to make, get back to us when you have some real data from the real world to compare those claims to.
You (or your car) won’t live long enough to wear out the battery – might swap into next car
Don’t just claim it. show us the data of these things actually happening, because so far the numbers are: **ZERO** (mainly because these things haven’t existed long enough for the claims to be put to the test – As I said, claims are easy to make – it’s the real world data that backs up those claims that’s important.).
mmmm its a very mature technology, you dont exactly see the highways littered with broken down cars at least where I live. We should be talking about cost/functionality. Many things are complex to users but they like the functionality, smartphones would be an example.
you dont exactly see the highways littered with broken down cars at least where I live
I should hope not, broken down vehicles are removed from highways as quickly as possible so as to not be a hazard to other drivers. That doesn’t mean they don’t happen on a daily basis.
You don’t exactly see the auto repair shops empty of cars to repair (indeed most shops have plenty of cars in the queue for repair), at least where I live, which would be a better metric of car breakdowns than how many are left abandoned on the roadside.
“And the cost of charging? Absolutely nothing. Free.”
Typical propaganda from the likes of the ABC. Ultimately, somebody paid for the energy. Deducing who doesn’t take rocket science.
“But muh fuel is free”
Says the guy that just spent $100,000 on a sedan.
And depends on taxpayers to subsidize the charging station/electrical use thereof.
$100,000 on the car
$8,000 on the Powerwall battery charger
$20-30,000 on the solar panels to recharge the Powerwall
THEN… the sun is free
AFTER you have traveled sufficient miles to recover the costs at $3.00 per U.S. gallon
@ $30 per tank full, that’s about 1,300 fill ups and still the car costs as much as 4 regular cars
Which is an additional 2,200 fill ups.
3,500 fill ups at 30 mpg x 10 gal is 1,050,000 miles you need to drive to break even
I hope everyone does their driving at night so they can take all day to solar charge their cars.
It won’t be “free” once the total number of EV’s breaks out of the single digits percentage wise.
Sweet all I need to do is make an inverter I can plug into these car charger and i get free mains power.
TANSTAAFL
1,200 km is an extreme test… the average UK car journey is apparently 8.4 miles and London to Edinburgh a shade over 400.
Horses -or EVs – for courses
My wife’s friend just told her husband to get rid of the tesla and get her a “real car”. She travels to upstate New York to visit kids and grandkids and got totally sick of sitting at charging stations all the time.
Griff put the UK on a map of North America and it is a piddling small place …. u don’t really understand what it means to go on a road trip. One trip home from visiting California we did almost 2100 km the last day or almost 2 1/2 trips of the UK end to end as the crow flies …. u just don’t get it griff.
I won’t even mention having boots and bonnets, driving on the wrong side and tyres or petrol.
Great Britain is about the same size as California. Not a real good comparison. While I was still working, my daily commute was either 100 miles, 96 miles or 140 miles, depending on to which office I went.
Speaking of comparisons, I once was told by a Brit in Lyme Regis just how proud she was of her 40- miles-per-gallon car, while I could only talk about my 32-mile-per-gallon car. Later, I realized she was talking Imperial gallons while I was talking US gallons. Makes a difference.
So, when talking mpg on this site, please let us know which gallons you are talking about. (I assume that everyone is talking about statute miles.)
Or drop Imperial measures altogether. The USA got its independence from England but won’t give up the stupid measuring system. Probably about time the US went Metric.
There’s nothing wrong with Imperial.
Metric is the stupid one. Only practical in the labratory. For the rest of us out in the real world, we appreciate being able to divide most units by 3 without having to truncate asymptotes. 🙂
Metric isn’t stupid, it’s actually a pretty elegant system (everyone is already familiar with base 10 from their number system). The problem is that it came too late to America, the old system is deeply ingrained here and despite a push back in the 80s, metric never really caught on here in the states.
John,
The real problem is that we count in numbers Base10 which only has natural numbers 2 and 5 as divisors.
Now if we changed to counting in Base 12 with natural numbers 2, 3, 4 and 6 as divisors then that would be truly progressive.
http://web.mnstate.edu/peil/MDEV102/U2/S12/S122.html
(Just saying).
The problem with metric vs not isn’t with our counting system (base 10 or base 12 or base any other number would be a good consistent base for a measuring system, base 10 just happens to be the one that our numbering system already uses making it a good, easy for the masses to understand candidate).
It’s that one system (metric) uses a consistent base as you move between units (10 of one unit equals 1 of the next unit consistently from unit to unit) where as the other does not (there’s no consistency from unit to unit. to go from inches feet you need 12, but to go from feet to yards you only need 3 not 12, yards to miles you need 1760 not 3 or 12).
As already stated, the reason metric failed to catch on in the US has more to do with the inertia of the old system than any particular failing of metric (it’s really rather easy to use due to being the same base as our numbering system. Using a base 12 system wouldn’t have worked any better in replacing the old system, regardless of how many more natural numbers divisors it affords and indeed likely would have failed ever worse at replacement since base 12 math doesn’t come as naturally to the average citizen as base 10 math does thanks to our numbering system being base 10) .
John,
I was just saying…
John,
It was my father, a math teacher, who pointed out to me that if humanity had six digits on each hand then we would naturally count in Base 12.
Don’t you think, or is that too progressive for you?
What could have been doesn’t really matter. More importantly it has nothing to do with what was being discussed (metric vs non-metric measuring systems).
John,
Metric is base 10.
The US went metric some years ago: 5.56, 7.62 and 9
John,
Metric is base 10.
It is? Why didn’t I know that? Oh, wait, I already pointed that out in my first post on the subject and I quote myself “Metric isn’t stupid, it’s actually a pretty elegant system (everyone is already familiar with base 10 from their number system).”
You’re just trolling now aren’t you. Bye Felicia.
She had about 20% more fuel in her gallon. So almost exactly the same mpg.
Hopefully not Nautical Miles
Very few cars can travel where Nautical Miles are generally measured
Great Britain is about 80,000 sq miles; California is 160,000 sq miles. If you were an astronomer, I wouldn’t quibble with “about the same size” but ….
Australia is not a part of UK.
UK is a tiny dot on the map it is in the 1% group of small land area countries, so what are you saying electric cars are suitable for the 1% of small land area countries. An electric car can’t go mainstream in the 99% of other nations until it has a range around 600-800Km and it needs to charge in minutes, that is exactly what it is trying to replace can do.
“…the average UK car journey is apparently 8.4 miles…”
Oh well if a car just needs to be equipped for 8.4 miles, who really needs A/C or heat? Or a radio? Or cruise control? Or basically any features at all?
“…London to Edinburgh a shade over 400…”
That exceeds the range of any current EV. So you’d have to plan to stop a recharge each way. Even if you don’t have to wait for a charging station…have fun waiting while charging.
Not in the country griff. Maybe from your bed sit to the food bank…
And here in Canada, driving to the cottage or visiting family on long weekends is often in the 500 km range.
However, the article did not mention if the a/c was on. And once again, back in Canada, we have to worry about heating the vehicle for a good part of the year.
Bob Hunter says :
“And once again, back in Canada, we have to worry about heating the vehicle for a good part of the year.”
————————————————-
And Bob we not only have to heat the cabin whilst driving, Many of us have to heat the engine block, and battery whilst parked to not experience the fate of Panzer drivers on the Russian Steppe in Winter.
I can swap out a 40 pound car battery in minutes. I’ve never heard what EV drivers will have to do in Dryden Ontario in late January at -40 degrees Fahrenheit with a windchill of -70 F and a 600 pound + battery.
Well apparently the city of Dryden in Ontario, Canada, has 9 public charging station ports (Level 2 and Level 3) within 15km. So presumably there are a few people up there with EVs. Of course they could be snowbirds who flee south for the winter.
Griff the test was in regional and rural Australia, so distance is a factor. Victoria is about 3 times the size of the UK. New South Wales (NSW) is about 3 times the size of Victoria. NSW is bigger than Texas. If you want to drive from Sydney to Melbourne (Which you can’t just yet) that is ~1100kms one way. That would be just under 3 times the range of the Tesla at ~410kms range as quoted. People like you have no real idea how big countries like the Australia and the USA are.
That’s a no deal for me if I needed to rely on range.
I rather thought that Victoria is roughly the size of England? I don’t have figures to hand though.
Australia itself is 32 times the size of the UK. Victoria is 91,749 sq miles while the UK is 94,058 sq miles, so while “roughly the same size” UK is actually just slightly bigger than Victoria.
Take a look at a map my friend. Australia is a wee bit bigger than UK. Day trips of 500-600 km are not uncommon. Personally I have done Melbourne- Bundaberg (1800 km) in under 3 days (1 driver) and 1 day with 2 drivers. Total fuel stops less than 1 hour.
Refueling time is the issue. Range is issue and it takes time. Hours and hours and hours.
I went from Santa Rosa Ca. to Seattle Wa., (734 miles or 1181 Kilometers) in 14 hours with 3 gas stops of 5-7 minutes each and 2 quick stops for food.
Show me an EV that can do the same thing in the same amount of time without driving at 100mph to allow for extra charging time
1,200 k isn’t unusual in Aus, particularly for a weekend road trip or family visit. 600 K in most cases won’t even take you into a different state. I do a 78 k round trip to work each day and have done numerous 2600 k weekend trips to visit family. 8.4 k? sell your the car and use push bike.
Exactly, I live in Brisbane (QLD) and when we visit our Daughter in Canberra (ACT) it is a roughly 1,300km trip which we do in our 4WD and as it has a large diesel tank we comfortably manage without refuelling so we do the trip in a single day if the weather is fine or we can break it half way for a more comfortable trip.
BTW: QLD is Australia second largest state at 667,000 Square Miles that is bigger than either CA or TX for those folks trying to understand why EVs are really not suitable here.
1200km is an extreme test…
Seriously, Griff? Stick to your little village then because you are comically missing the point.
The discussion here is can EV survive outside the little village environment where you are driving 20km a day. This is the question being asked because we are constantly being told that EV is the future and are suitable for all users.
You counter that because 1200km is extreme and most car journeys in the UK are the length of a long walk, therefore EV cars are great and trying to drive 1200km is pointless.
No, Griff. The ability to drive 1200km was the ENTIRE POINT OF THE QUESTION.
Seriously Griff. Of all the counters you could have made – eg “Once more charging stations are built…” – you went with this one.
If I had empathy I would worry about you.
Really if 8.4 miles is the average distance the UK should be the bicycle capital of the world why are they driving at all.
the average UK car journey is apparently 8.4 miles
That may be true in the dense Urban areas. Not so much the rural ones. Certainly not in the rural areas of bigger countries like the US, Canada, And Australia. Not everyone lives in urban areas and more importantly not everyone wants to live in urban areas. The whole point of the test is how does the EV stack up in those more wide open rural areas where long distance trips are more common. The answer (to no ones surprise): EVs don’t perform well in those environments.
EVs remind me of Linux O/S, or dating a high maintenance woman. Too much hassle. I want a computer to serve me with little thought or effort on my part, not a relationship with a computer that always needs attention.
Bad comparison, IMO. Linux is freedom from spying, freedom from corporate bull, and freedom to do things the way you want. It can sometimes require more maintenance, yes, but that’s the price of freedom. And to be frank, my linux machine requires no more attention than the windows machine I keep around for gaming and testing.
By analogy, if linux is an EV, then windows or OSX is a larger, heavier, superficially fancier EV that constantly monitors your position on the road and reports back to Elon Musk every moment you’re driving.
But I don’t think it’s really a fair comparison either way.
I’ll reconsider this stance in the event that the government bans the sale of alternative OSes, and mandates everyone can only use a particular version of Linux from some arbitrary future date.
As long as you are willing to accept the bloated Windows software, are adept enough to starve the system as much as possible of your private information, and pay rent for their cloud, and software … enjoy.
I’m not a tech guy at all, but I am transitioning to Linux, learning piece by piece. I’m using it now. I’m building a new mid level computer this month, and it will be Linux only. My goal is to be Windows free by New Years. There are Linux distributions that have a Windows look and feel to help with that transition if you decide to change your mind.
And if there’s a Windows app you can’t live without, just about every distro includes WINE.
point on the bloatware and privacy concerns.
but you lose a point on ” pay rent for their cloud, and software”. I neither use nor “pay rent” for their cloud or other software. The OS came with the system and I haven’t had to pay anything beyond whatever part of the purchase price of my PC it represented for it.
John Endicott:
“I neither use nor “pay rent” for their cloud or other software”.
—————————————-
From what I understand John, MS Word is included with Windows 10, but to access what we would call the MS Office 365 Suite free you have to be online at Outlook.com, requiring a working internet connection while you work. Your data’s privacy is as safe, and secure as MS decides day by day. A copy of Office 365 that will stand alone without their cloud services is a subscription only product.
Also MS OneDrive, which backs up data in the background to the MS cloud, has a free level of cloud storage that appears to 5 GB, and space beyond that is by paid annual subscription plans which can be linked to Office 365 subscription. Hence the term “rent”. It is difficult for novice users to understand how to disable OneDrive, much less why they really might want to. You might not have hit the “OneDrive needs more space” notification … yet.
I haven’t hit it, and never will, because I don’t use it *at all*. I don’t have to disable it because it’s never been enabled (I chose not to link to any MS accounts when I set up my widows 10 machine, One drive only works with a linked MS account. No MS Account means no active one drive which is fine with me). I also don’t use MS Word/MS Office 360. As I said, I don’t pay them a dime. You might be butt hurt over them getting you to pay rent, but trust me not everyone does so.
John Endicott says :
You might be butt hurt over them getting you to pay rent, but trust me not everyone does so.
_______________________________________________
Not hurt, never have never will “rent” software.
You’ve taken this personally.
It was meant as a heads up to those who through MS marketing think it’s their only choice.
I’m on ubuntu linux here. Might put the irish linux on my new build.
You’ve taken this personally.
project much? I don’t take posts on the web personally, but you clearly do. I merely pointed out that not everyone “rents” only for you to keep doubling down on Microsoft renting and saying I haven’t hit the “OneDrive needs more space” notification yet. Clearly you’ve got an axe to grind here, which suggests you’ve been burned by Microsoft in the past. I’m sorry for whatever Microsoft did to you, but that still doesn’t change the fact that when someone says they haven’t rented microsoft’s products, they don’t need you to tell them that they simply haven’t hit microsoft’s notifications yet. Hint: even if someone does hit microsoft’s notifications doesn’t mean they’re gonna start renting microsoft’s products. Trust me, nothing microsoft does will get me to part with my money to rent their products. Not gonna happen.
It is exactly the other way. Linux like ICE car sometimes needs little more maintenance, but rewards you with longer service, and greater possibilities.
You can have my 6.2 V8 when you kill me and steal the keys- otherwise, do one. These things are totally soulless and whilst this may not matter to some it sure as hell does to me. The idea that the few thousand miles I do in it is somehow killing the planet is ludicrous – especially when you take into account just what goes into making these electric toys. I don’t have a problem with other people driving them- I have a BIG problem with other people thinking what I do is any of their damn business…
I have a 2016 Subaru Crosstrek – many others get similar mileage.
That said, I can pull into a station and fill a near empty tank, and be back on the road in 7 minutes.** That refill will take me another 400 miles (about 650 km) – – no range anxiety for that distance.
I also can get heated or cooled air, and play the radio while charging a cell phone.
Also, I bought this car as “used” with 11,000 miles on it. Price?
Much less than the EVs then, but some are coming down in price now.
**
How does one “poke around a small town” if your car is hooked up; and if it is small enough to walk around, how many times does one need to do that? Rain? Snow? Other weather. [Better to sleep or read a book.]
Out in the country 250 km from the nearest big city. Flat prairie with frequent high winds and no charging station. And then there’s -40C when a car heater is not a luxury, it’s a life or death requirement. And what about the extra energy costs plowing through ice and snow and wind drifts over the highway? I’ll be keeping my pick up truck with four wheel drive, thank you.
I think we’ve all been in the situation where we pass a gas station knowing that there will be a more convenient one within range, only to drive up on it and seeing an out of order sign. Imagine dealing with that anxiety on every single trip. Then consider if EVs actually do gain market share, not only will you be waiting to charge your car about 10X as long as filling up a fuel tank, but you will be pulling up on recharge stations where all the charging stations are currently in use. Then consider complete reliance on the evermore at-risk power grid (as more renewables infringe on reliable power), blackouts, brownouts, storms knocking out power, and being stuck in a traffic jam in cold weather (that could be a death sentence). Umm, no thanks, I’ll stick with what works for now and not concern myself with climagheddon fantasy.
But I’m with you on hybrids, especially diesel-electric, if the prices came down and one were actually available (diesel) in NA.
How much do prices need to come down? Hybrids are pretty cheap.
Prius MSRP starts $24-25k. Prius mileage over 150,000 miles (current hybrid battery warranty) will save me $4-5k over a comparable ICE and $6-7k over a small ICE SUV. If you do a full cost-benefit analysis over time, it is likely a wash or close to it (depends so much on gas prices). The Prius Prime (plug-in version with extended electric range) is $28-29k. It can run on all-electric for like 40-50 miles after a charge and up to like 60 mph. People buy them and use them like full EVs around town and then a hybrid on trips.
Corolla base MSRP is right at $20k. Hybrid is $23.5k.
Rav4 based MSRP is $26k. Hybrid is $28.5k. I think the Hybrid only comes in 4WD and is only $1k more than the base with 4WD.
The PHEV is the real logical winner in the attempt to electrify transportation. A bit more expensive depending where you live for the rebates. Toyota can’t fill the Rav4 Prime PHEV demand because the Chinese have curtailed their access to the rare earths they need since their trade war, and most of these Toyota PHEV’s are built in Japan. And then the exports after domestic sales go to the markets like California or in Canada, it is Quebec, because they made a law that to have a dealership in Quebec, you had to offer so many of each hybrid model, thereby making most other jurisdictions unable to even order a Toyota PHEV. I have a downpayment on a Rav4 Prime, but now they telling me it may 2 years. All this may be a marketing ploy by Toyota too…who knows. They make much more profit on their gasoline only models and are mainly trying to maintain their market share of all models in commie jurisdictions like California.
Indeed. Here in the states, try finding (for example) a Honda Clarity PHEV at a dealership outside of Select states like California. You can’t unless you special order it. The typical middle-class customer buys off the lot, they don’t special order cars, unless it’s to get a car they test drove on the lot upgraded with optional extras.
I honestly haven’t shopped for a vehicle in 7-8 years, but some of them don’t look bad. I’d prefer something with at least a V6 though. I just wish those damn Swedes would import the V60 hybrid.
I just bought a CRV AWD hybrid with most of the extra bells and whistles for $30000. It has been getting 40-41mpg around town and mid 30’s on the open road. It is also one of the most comfortable cars I’ve driven. Honda made this year’s CRV bigger than the Pilot was a few years ago.
Huh….. What do you do with the Prius when you have to haul the wife, two kids, and a mother-in-law plus all their luggage on a 600 mile trip to visit a different child? You can do that with a small ICE SUV. What do you do when you have to haul a load of several hundred pounds of miscellaneous and sundry to the landfill? You can do that with a small ICE SUV and a small trailer. What’s the towing capacity of a Prius?
First off, you are comparing a sedan to a SUV. regardless of ICE or EV, you are already comparing apples to oranges. While I don’t disagree with the point you are trying to make, I just ask you to try making it by comparing apples to apples (Sedan to Sedan or SUV to SUV).
“you will be pulling up on recharge stations where all the charging stations are currently in use.”
And if it’s half-full, you’ll have to share your “pump” with someone else, resulting in a halving of the charging rate (if it’s a Tesla “pump”).
Sometime last year the vlogger “CGP Grey” took a Tesla across Nevada’s “loneliest road.” Using Tesla’s adapters he was able to charge at RV parks, as he was very off the beaten path and no Tesla charging stations were available.
Charging like took 14-ish hours, so he was literally only able to travel a single charge worth of distance per day. He even said it was less than ideal, but he was happy to do it as a “proof that it could be done” kind of thing.
I have driven that route many times. It’s about 7 hours from Reno to the Utah border. Can’t imagine taking several days… Needless to say I don’t drive an electric.
Reno to Las Vegas 7 hrs in my ’92 Honda Civic, 50 mpg, speed limits observed, no need to stop for gas. Tesla Model S Long Range 7 hrs 55 minutes with a long recharge in Tonopah, assuming no A/C running.
Boise to Reno, the Tesla takes 1 hr 35 min longer, requiring a much longer route to find charge stations.
several days across Nevada, that sounds like the days of Wagon Train where you had to stop every day to water the horses or oxen – and let them graze too.
Just because something “can” be done, is not evidence that it should be done.
If there was any real rationalization or critical thought, it would be pure BEV’s that were outlawed and not the ICE. Such is the price of having puritans making the laws. I would have thought that Elon Musk, of all people, would have figured out that having even a micro ICE to supply cabin heat and A/C, and charging equivalent to a Level 2 charger (~4-5 kW) for those times that you will be completely stuck. Could reduce that battery weight a hair and put in an compact micro dedicated ICE. This represents a giant catastrophe waiting to happen in future years when 10%-15% of the pure EV cars are blocking the highways in a forest fire evacuation. They will be pushed off the road into the ditch so people can escape with their lives.
Neither should be outlawed, as long as the vehicles are road ready (Self driving cars, for example, are not road ready). Let the market decide what it wants (that means no subsidies stacking the decks). If people want an EV let them buy an EV. EVs are certainly well suited for urban driving. If people want an ICE let them buy an ICE. ICE are well suited for just about all your driving needs urban to rural. If people want Hybrids let them buy hybrids. If people want alternate fuel vehicles let them buy alternate fuel vehicles. Government shouldn’t be deciding what people are allowed to buy (again as long as what people are buying are road ready).
I heard they once filled large balloons with hydrogen.
In 2014 Car and Driver wrote about a “race” between a Tesla Model S and a Ford Model T. See here.
Spoiler alert: The Tesla won, but just barely.
The day they force me to drive an electric vehicle is the day I put my gas generator on the roof and charge as I drive around. I am, of course, assuming the batteries will charge as I’m operating the vehicle.
“I am, of course, assuming the batteries will charge as I’m operating the vehicle.”
That’s what hybrids do.
So it makes sense to run an engine to charge batteries to run another engine to turn the wheels?
That sounds like a perfect model for modern efficiency.
I don’t own one but I’m told they are a lot cheaper to run than conventional ICE’s.
More fuel efficient, yes. Cheaper to run is yet to be determined. The additional cost of purchase and maintenance over the vehicle life has to be offset against the fuel saving before it becomes cheaper to run, and we don’t know what the life is going to be yet.
I’ve read that taxi drivers like hybrids like the Prius because of its overall low cost of operation.
As much as it may surprise you, Murph, it (Hybrids) actually can be more efficient than an ICE only model and gives you greater flexibility than an EV only model – it’s a best of both worlds situation. Obviously, how efficient it works out to be depends a lot on how you use it.
The most awesome way to think of petrol-versus-electricity is in the rate of charge, expressed in either miles-per-hour, or kilometers per hour.
For instance, my local California safety-inspired limited flow gasoline pump squirts out 6 gallons per minute. Given my car gets about 25 MPG on the highway (or better!), that translates to 6 × 60 × 25 = 9,000 miles per hour. Gasoline recharge rate.
My wife’s Tesla Model 30, at an ordinary 60 kW re-charge station gets about 3.3 miles per kilowatt hour. So, 3.3 × 60 = 200 miles per hour.
Cool! Gasoline is about 45× faster in recharge rate. See? This conversion is ideal for people to consider.
Likewise, when our M–30 is plugged into the garage 240 volt, 40 amp service (taking only 30 amps, so 7.2 kW), the recharge rate is about 24 miles per hour. Overnight, who cares! Sleep is a great thing, and if the car is recharging whilst I slumber, all the better!
Still … 24 miles per hour.
Off a special plug-and-charger thing.
Diesel and gasoline are SO potent by comparison. 9,000 miles per hour.
No electric charging yet compares, even remotely.
⋅-⋅-⋅ Just saying, ⋅-⋅-⋅
⋅-=≡ GoatGuy ✓ ≡=-⋅
In my area the local electric company shuts down power stations during the middle of the night to service them. Not great for electric car recharging.
Couple of quotes from the linked article.
“An hour later, I wandered back to the charging station to find the battery 90 per cent charged”
“I could have plugged the car into a conventional power point using a special adaptor, but I had learned even an overnight charge from a regular power point would not put enough electricity in the car to fully charge it.”
I don’t know about these particular batteries, but with most battery technology, best practice is to charge them fully whenever you plug them in. And usually that means a deep charge, meaning leave them plugged in after the charger says they’re done, for a few hours (assuming the charger still trickles after “completion”)
“…best practice is to charge them fully whenever you plug them in…” Not with LiON batteries. It reduces battery life because more heat is generated as it approaches fully charged. It also takes more time for the final charge than leading up to it. The recommendation is to charge them to say 75% to extend battery life and reduce charge time. Which means your 200 mile car practically really has 150 mile daily range.
Yes, pure bait and switch
“your new vehicle can go X KM on a single battery charge but don’t fully charge please
all a game
They do have smart chargers that reduce the amps being charged when reaching full voltage, which reduces the heat going into the battery. And takes more time. Otherwise, how is that 17 year 1.25 million mile battery warranty going to work? Or how is Tesla going to operate their 375 kW fast charger without damaging it from that kind of heat.
People won’t get up in the middle of the night to unplug their charger to keep the battery at 75%. This isn’t true of course, but if it were, even less a case for EV tech. Even Apple now says it doesn’t hurt to keep your iPhone plugged in and charge to 100%. If anything, the manufacturer would halt charging at 75% and call it 100% if fully charging a battery damaged it.
The same applies at the lower end of the charge, so don’t fully discharge the battery, start charging at ~10% up to ~80%. Not exactly ideal. At least the Tesla has an active battery cooling system, unlike the Nissan Leaf where Nissan will charge you AU$35,000 for replacement.
As Earthling2 said, smart chargers (which are very common in smaller applications, like wheelchair batteries), will reduce the amps being pushed in for the last 20% of the charge. So the heat issue shouldn’t be. An issue, that is.
Some of you guys are behind the times. The reason it usually takes so long to recharge an EV battery is because AC current is used. If you have a DC charging station, your EV can be recharged in as little as 10 minutes.
Check out the following site:
https://www.tritium.com.au/products/pk-350kw-high-powered-charging-system/
“In just 10 minutes:
The Veefil-PK high power charging system operating at 350 kW can add 350 kilometres (217 miles) of range to an electric vehicle .
The Veefil-PK high power charging system operating at 175 kW can add 175 kilometres (109 miles) of range to an electric vehicle.”
First it matters not whether it is AC or DC, it is the power available. I notice on your link the unit requires two 480 V 3 phase connections. Call your electric company and see what that will cost you.
Plu,s take advantage of the free charging now. As soon as gas pumps begin to disappear, get out your credit card. And, plan on paying dearly for the opportunity to charge while on the road.
How hot does the battery get if you fully charge it in just 10 minutes?
And how much of the electricity was wasted? The loss is proportional to the charging current squared. With superfast charging typically at least 50% is lost as heat. Don’t do it unless your car has a good (liquid) battery cooling system.
“The Veefil-PK high power charging system operating at 350 kW”
Which will almost certainly require a new power line and a new transformer with cost running into 6 figures. The existing networks do not have that kind of spare capacity.
The real fun comes when you try to dissipate that 350 kW so that your battery doesn’t start glowing in the dark.
A former Tesla aficionado (who then went the way of the Corvette) would have spun this differently.
He and his wife had to stop to charge on a trip and found a charging station at a Kohl’s. His wife shopped while the car charged. They found the store manager and told him the whole reason they spent hundreds of $$$ there was because of the charging station.
He and his son took a trip up and down the East Coast. They planned out all of the charging station stops. Made me think of a scene from National Lampoon’s “Vacation,” but it sounded like it was the most exciting part of the trip to them.
Even though they spent hundreds of $$$’s at the store, they still may not have compensated the store for the electricity used to charge up.
That depends, is the store receiving any kind of subsidies or tax breaks for having a charging station?
The real point of all-electric is that it only works in an urban setting. The people pushing electric vehicles know that it will not work with current population patterns. The goal is to concentrate all population into urban zones, ultimately having us living in efficiency apartments within walking distance of work, school and shopping. (This would necessitate relocating every time we change job locations, rather than commuting. That means no home ownership that would tie us to mortgages.) Urban planners and socialists have been dreaming of this for over a hundred years.
“This would necessitate relocating every time we change job locations”
You assume you will be able to choose your work. In the new green Marxist state, you will be assigned a job, and a place to live.
Right – Handed Shark says :
“You assume you will be able to choose your work. In the new green Marxist state, you will be assigned a job, and a place to live.”
—————————————
Then your neighbor will turn you in to State Security to get your nice apartment.
And your hot water will work only at certain times, and the heat may get turned off for patriotic reasons who’ll just be told to accept as the price for “fighting climate change.” Your building’s internet will be censored and unapproved content will be blocked. Meanwhile Bloomberg and all the multimillionaires and billionaires have their mansion, chalets, yachts, jets. Enjoy the Green suck.
Central Planning ala, Soviet Union, Cuba, North Korea, etc. Bread lines, bartered black market, broken dreams.
Broken lives for peasants like me then.
Perhaps one of my offspring will get a post as a concubine for one of the fabulously wealthy elite – a right-on reporter, or a paid thug [sorry security person], or even an informer.
What a future to look forward to!
Auto
[Mods – Yes!
It is /sarc ]
LOL: my mother and sisters are avid ABC fans and held this belief in global warming and alternative energy sources for many years. They’re only now starting to doubt it. Alas! I can’t gloat. If I mention anything about the ridiculousness of wind and solar and batteries and the asinine global warming rubbish, the response is: “But we had to do something.” Sheesh.
EVs are excellent urban vehicles when easily accessible overnight charging is available that supports the daily driving range. From an ergonomic perspective they are preferable to ICE cars in most aspects. More quiet, roomy, smooth, and quicker acceleration. Until range anxiety, charging time, and costs are reduced they will remain a niche vehicle.
?? Roomy? Can you haul a grandfather clock in your EV? I can in my ICE SUV!
Again with apples to oranges comparisons. You fail to make valid points when you do that. You are assuming their EV is a sedan and comparing it to your SUV. tsk tsk. An EV SUV (yes they exist) can haul a grandfather clock same as any other SUV. In future, try to keep to like for like comparisons (IE SUVs to SUVs, or Sedans to Sedans).
“…I could imagine myself one day buying a hybrid, if the cost comes down. A lot of my driving is short range school runs and shopping trips, it would be kind of cool to mostly keep the car topped up from home…”
Presume you’re talking about a plug-in hybrid? A standard hybrid would be using gas for those trips. Hybrid battery gets charged by the ICE, coasting, and breaking, not from home.
And this is a vehicle with better range. Imagine trying to do this in an EV with half the range?
Drafting. On big trucks or other cars. Will extend fuel mileage regardless of fuel source. The big BUT in this is that drafting is illegal, unsafe, and maybe even unethical. I think drafting off big trucks is safer (but not in city driving) because those big trucks can’t make quick sudden stops. And doesn’t drafting also help the draftee’s fuel mileage by shearing the wind turbulence behind them? This is where future 5G or 6G autonomous vehicles can really have a big advantage – safe drafting. With the vehicles constantly “talking” to each other, drafting will necessarily become viable and desired. If draftee’s tires signal a potential failure (same for engine and all mechanical systems), instantly break off the draft on that vehicle, move to another. Almost everybody gets 5% – 30%, or better fuel mileage while drafting.
Volvo has already tried that. Their conclusion was that the “autonomous” vehicles aren’t up to it, at least not with current technology. Not even with convoys of identical trucks.
During the 70’s fuel crisis, on long trips I drafted behind large trucks with my 1968 VW Beetle. Pissed off the truckers to the extent they would take radical evasive maneuvers! Not a good practice under any circumstances. Of course, I’m a lot older now and my reflexes are not as good.
Future autonomous vehicle drafting off other vehicles would be one of the safer functions of vehicle autonomy. The lead vehicle would be communicating to trailing vehicles at a rate of over 100 times per second what it, the lead vehicle, has in its path. Vehicles behind the lead vehicle would know the very same things that the lead vehicle knows -it would be as though every drafting vehicle is the lead vehicle. Since all vehicles in the drafting line are going EXACTLY the same speed, an anomalous collision between two or more of the drafting vehicles would be minor. Tire blowouts and other tire failures would be the most probable initiator of trouble. Excessive heat is the main cause of tire failure; all autonomous vehicles will have pressure gauges, heat sensors, and perhaps even rotational imbalance sensors. In fact there will be all kinds of sensors on future wireless 5G and 6G autonomous vehicles. Onboard computer systems and 5G/6G networks can convey vehicle mechanical failures to surrounding vehicles in less than 1/10th of a second, and thus appropriate actions can be taken by all area vehicles before a human driver could possibly know there was a potential issue. 5G networks are amazingly fast. But from what I’ve read of the potential of 6G is that it makes 5G look like dial-up. I’ve read that 6G may be able to download 143 full HD movies in one second. If future 5G/6G autonomous vehicle software is standardized, all vehicles in a given area will agree to ANY actions before ANY vehicle takes an evasive action, and all in less than the time it takes any respective passenger to blink. Volvo may have already tried something, but technology does not sit still. Blink, and you may have missed an entire disruptive Hi-Tech revolution. Volvo will be active in this arena, else they will go belly up. 🙂
Here’s a man with lots of faith in digital technology and very little understanding of human nature. What happens when the communications are hacked or interfered with?
1st weapon used in any future war will be emp based, crippling the economy and communications.
Murph, I agree with your concerns. I’m only telling what is possible.
“What happens when the communications are hacked or interfered with?” I don’t know, but I’m sure it could be ugly.
There are unmanned, autonomous tractor/trailer trucks in the Phoenix, AZ area in trials on actual highways; no one onboard. This tech is coming whether we like it. It is supposed to hit trucks before cars. If you extrapolate the technical possibilities, and the huge fuel savings drafting trains of trucks would bring (we’re talking $Billions in annual savings), it’s not hard to see it happening.
Yes, a very large Carrington Level CME or EMP could definitely royally screw us, but it will screw all modern cars, not just autonomous. People that have early 60s and earlier vehicles may still be in business. HAM operators that have spare radios and generators cached in protective boxes will be in big demand.
Did you know there’s a good chance the last commercial aircraft on which you flew was probably mostly being flown by hi-tech and not a pilot.
The fact is, if it can effectively be modeled, it can be computerized, and made autonomous. This does not work, however, with Climate Modeling, because the Climate cannot be modeled – it is way too complex, and there are too many unknowns; Climate cannot now be effectively modeled, and that is why all Computer Climate models are useless except for experimentation and hypothesizing. Computer Climate Models can never be correct. But computerized autonomous vehicles are definitely possible; a few people will probably die in early years/stages, but it is coming. I think a few people died when many new technologies are introduced – think the first gas-powered automobiles, people died, but cars won out over the horse and buggy.
For different reasons, I believe manned missions to Mars will result in the deaths of the astronauts. But even after a few failed manned missions to Mars, if people are still determined to send more people to their deaths, and if there still remains public schools that are not named after dead Martian Astronauts, they’ll eventually get people there that will live for a while.
I’m studying Bible book Genesis – God gave mankind dominion over Earth, but He retained sovereignty over the heavenly bodies, celestial bodies, space – the last frontier. Mankind is not meant to traverse space – it is full of death waiting for mankind. Oh we can probably do some space traversing, but look what happened when we ate of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil; death entered in…
In 90s Saab presented an electric car. It was used to lead a non-stop 1300 km running event in Finland “Suomi juoksee” (“Finland Runs”). Every now and then the car drove to some alley and met a truck containing charged spare batteries. It took only a couple of minutes to switch a charged battery using a fork lift. So, the support team included a truck, a fork lift, and charged spare batteries. Anyway, the arrangement provided almost a non stop electric driving. 😀
Ever wonder why I returned my top notch electric cordless leaf blower and keep using the 20+ y.o. second hand purchased gasoline one ?
… and the lawn mowers, and snowblowers people abandon on their bulleva .. booliva, boulivar … in their ditch because they wouldn’t start ?
Guys who know, and understandably this might be the difficult to understand point for green strawman argument spreading trolls, work to fix them and get rewarded for their work by selling affordable overhauled appliances.
All of this virtue signally. No one talks about the amount of rare earth required to make a 1000 lb battery or that 80% of it is controlled by China or that children as young a 4 are being used to extract the rare earth. Britain used to be a source as was the U.S. but the chemicals required to extract the lithium was too much for the environmentally concerned. The demands of the Green New Deal would likely destroy Inner Mongolia and much of Africa. Who cares?
Driving around the interior areas of NSW with an electric vehicle would be a suicide mission. At best you would wind up being towed back to civilization after your car ran out of charge somewhere on the Western Plains.
“At best you would wind up being towed back to civilization”
Except that Teslas (and other BEVs?) can’t safely be towed, but must be loaded onto a flatbed truck. (Which will make clearing a traffic jam fall of dead BEVs much more difficult.)
Whilst the private sector financed petrol (gas) stations, many of EV recharging stations are funded on the public purse. Similarly highways are funded through fuel taxes which EVs avoid. Petroleum fuel cars are taxed at the time of purchase whilst EVs have reduced tax and/or subsidies. Hardly a level playing field.
Gerard,
Some States took part of my taxes and yours to subsidise rooftop solar electricity. This resulted in a bad reduction of frequency properties, threats of more blackouts, higher prices, distorted market fundamentals — almost all for virtue signalling.
Subsidies for charging stations face similar bads. Why oh why is self flagellation so trendy just now?
Imagine the backup at Kimba (SA) waiting for a free EV charger. The line would stretch back to Iron Knob. No thanks.
PS there is no petrol at Iron Knob either despite road information to the contrary. A few anxious moments.
I tend to avoid Kimba.
Not because of Kimba itself, but I have family around there.
I get on with a lot of my family by physically spending time with them as little as possible. 🙂
But yes, for those not playing in Australia, Kimba isn’t even real outback, it is rural. Yes you get some towns that have all the basics us city types take for granted, but you discover the ‘next town’ on the map where you planned to stop is actually just some wheat silos.
Managing fuel with a real vehicle can be tricky enough, but at least economy figures for ICE don’t jump all over the place while you are still driving.
Also, for the record, I drive a 2L turbo diesel. 5.0L/100 and 1000km per tank plus more torque than a chat room. Great car.
Good luck crossing the Nullarbor with that mate.
We crossed the Nullarbor in a Statesman with a non-supercharged 5 litre (308 cu in) V8. Present car is another Statesman with a 3.8 litre (232 cu in) supercharged V6.
Lovely engine, makes some variable noise with throttle change. as opposed to the V8 that competes with it, but does not have much change in exhaust note.
It is all academic. This car can easily get to 180 kph (112 mph) but very few places now let you exceed 100 kph without risk of infringement. I don’t give a stuff what the fuel economy is. I have anly a few years of life left and that is earmarked for fun at all costs. Also, there is plenty of stupidity in buying an electric vehicle for outback driving in Australia. High odds of being stranded and putting emergency services to useless work.
I thought the article was funny and note from Sydney to Yass is one of the better main roads in Australia. If you cannot do that on an electric car then you have no hope once you get off the highway. Only “our ABC” – funded by all taxpayers whether they ever have anything to do with it or not – would write such a story but for once at least, this story realised it was impractical for a real country living person as opposed to a blow in from the city.
CO2 is not a reason for EVs. Many Tesla and EV people are like cultists….GM made an EV-1 that was for lease and many did not want to return the car when GM ended the program…and it used lead acid batteries. Highways are paid for thru gasoline taxes….currently EVs get a free ride. I do not see military vehicles powered by batteries….Police maybe better consider buying many extra EVs because when one is near discharge, an emergency would require a backup car rather than waiting for a recharge. The economics for EVs are not too attractive….so why buy one? Waiting on that new improved super battery? What if it costs twice as much?
TANSTAAFL
though I hear the moon is a harsh mistress.
Well played, well played.
Our very own Eco-Fascist director of Conservation in New Zealand found out for himself just how incapable these vehicles are
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12341219
In Victoria, Australia we have been locked up for the best part of 7 months now. The last 4 with a maximum travel limit of 5km.
Up to a month ago I had been using my diesel fuelled car to do the weekly shopping trip – basically the only reason I am permitted to leave home. Last time I used the car it came up with a pollution control system alarm. What it means is that the particle filter in the exhaust is getting clogged up. The usual way to fix that problem is to take the car out on the highway and cruise at speed for about 20 minutes. As it happens I do not have a racing track within 5km of my home so the car is in the garage with hood up and battery on charge.
On the plus side I am still above half a tank of fuel for the second tank fill in 2020. I expect the second tank will get me to the end of the year assuming we are permitted to go more than 5km in the near future.
My son bought a Toyota CHR hybrid this year. He is an essential worker and the car has had plenty of use this year. Tank holds 43 litres of fuel and he is getting up toward 1000km per tank. Apart from the claustrophobic nature of the back seat it is a nice car. Hybrids make a lot more sense than BEVs.
If they do insist on banning ICE cars there is always this solution.
As far as I can tell, no country in the world has the electricity infrastructure available to run all electric vehicles.
This infrastructure would cost several times as much as each vehicle added, so who pays? The Greenies say “wind or solar electricity is cheap, and electric vehicles wonderful”. In the UK there are not many people interested in wind or solar any more as they are now charged to connect to the grid, and therefore pay some of the infrastructure cost. They are still not paying for the gas backup for use at night or when there is no wind. Electricity prices are soaring to around 18p ($0.25) a kWh, and will get higher still if the Government carries on building offshore wind. They are NOT building the gas backup, so blackouts are expected! The whole lot is a pyramid selling scheme to wreck the country.
Its quite misleading to say the ‘fuel cost was zero’ because thats a false free good, there will be a cost to recharge these things and thats likely to cost more and more over time, possibly making petrol look cheap, who really knows.. ? Its also wrong to suggest there are zero emissions and environmental benefits which is also misleading. Nothing is zero emissions, its relocated emissions, perhaps reduced emissions but not zero. These cars also consume much more resources during their manufacture and disposal than a regular gas or diesel car, estimates put the ‘carbon debt’ of an EV at around 90,000kms before breaking even… some EVs never do enough kms to break even compared to petrol… some day they will be much better with development, but right now they are a long way from clean as claimed..
Not only is Sydney to Canberra a “pretty benign road route”, they did it in a season when they could get away without using either heating or air conditioning. If they did it in the middle of summer, they would be looking at multiple recharging stops.
From the article: “The last 40 kilometres before Yass was a white-knuckle experience.”
LOL!
I wonder how much time electric car owners spend stressing out over their next electrical charge. No thanks, I’ll stick with fossil fuels.
I didn’t miss the bit about- ‘The NRMA plans to install enough charging stations to drive as far as western New South Wales just using their network of chargers.’ ICE car owner members will be pleased their annual membership fee rises are being allocated to subsidising well to do EV owner members in this way. The climate changers are everywhere with their snouts in the trough or emanating feelgood with other people’s hard earned.
If I happened to live in a place like Jugiong, in the forthcoming EV future, I’d invest in a truck with a hefty generator on the back and various EV recharging interfaces. In the forthcoming EV future, there are going to be lots of run-out-of-electricity breakdowns along the Hume Highway.
As for tackling the “Gunbarrel” highway or the Tanami track in an EV – the mind boggles!
JC
You might find that there are some mitigation strategies that will impact your business plan.
Well the experts in the field certainly don’t think batteries will cut it for trucks-
https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/the-new-petrol-vs-diesel-why-hyundai-says-hydrogen-fuel-cell-trucks-81018
The whole buisiness about electric vehicles is in response to unproven assertions that CO2 is harmful and its entry to the atmosphere has to be reduced no matter how high a cost this entails. While that unscientific myth persists, you will have do-gooders interfering with you driving enjoymemt.
Here in Melbourne, local councils are linked to the United Nations through various programmes. The UN with IPCC is the main pusher of the myth, so Councils are doing costly, harmful things to the city because they are mostly responsible for roads. One of the more annoying ones is the subtraction of motor car traffic lanes and their replacement with bicycle lanes. Popular add-on extras are a drop in legal speed limit to 30 kph, installation of speed cameras and speed humps. This topic is fertile ground for insignificant little Hitler people to grab their 15 minutes of fame and annoy the hell out of ordinary citizens.