Cooling The Hothouse

Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

I see that a new study has been hyped with the headline:

Earth barreling toward ‘Hothouse’ state not seen in 50 million years,epic new climate record shows

I’ll spare you a link to the miscreants in question, it’s the usual alarmism. Here’s a sample.

“Now, in a new study published today (Sept. 10) in the journal Science, researchers have analyzed the chemical elements in thousands of foram samples to build the most detailed climate record of Earth ever — and it reveals just how dire our current climate situation is.”

“Dire” … here’s their alarmist graphic, showing the temperature since dinosaurs 67 million years ago (or “67 mya” as they say, which actually means 67 million years before 1950 … go figure).

Figure 1. Lead graphic from the article.

Y’all know me, I’m a data hound. Plus I don’t like science by press release. So I got the paper, “An astronomically dated record of Earth’s climate and its predictability over the last 66 million years”. It’s paywalled in Science magazine here. To get it I used the DOI and went through SciHub, but that’s just me. Here’s the money graph from their paper. 

Figure 2. ORIGINAL CAPTION: Fig. 1. Cenozoic Global Reference benthic foraminifer carbon and oxygen Isotope Dataset (CENOGRID) from ocean drilling core sites spanning the past 66 million years. Data are mostly generated by using benthic foraminifera tests of the taxa Cibicidoides and Nuttallides extracted from carbonate-rich deepsea sediments drilled during Ocean Drilling Program (ODP) and Integrated Ocean Drilling Program (IODP) expeditions. Genus-specific corrections were applied and oxygen isotope data adjusted by +0.64‰ and +0.4‰, respectively (12), with the green dot indicating the average oxygen isotope composition of the last 10 kyr. 

Average resolution for the interval from 0 to 34 Ma is one sample every 2 ky; for the interval from 34 to 67 Ma, it is one sample every 4.4 kyr. After binning, data were resampled and smoothed by a locally weighted function over 20 kyr (blue curve) and 1 Myr (red curve) to accentuate the different rhythms and trends in Earth’s carbon cycle and temperature operating on various time scales. 

Oxygen isotope data have been converted to average temperature differences with respect to today (13). Future projections for global temperature (44) in the year 2300 are shown by plotting three representative concentration pathways (RCP) scenarios (light blue, dark blue, and red dots). Gray horizontal bars mark rough estimates of ice volume in each hemisphere. Absolute ages for epochs and stages of the Cenozoic (GTS2012) and geomagnetic field reversals (this study) are provided for reference. 

The oxygen isotope data axis is reversed to reflect warmer temperatures at times of lower d18O values. Aqu, Aquitanian; Bur, Burdigalian; Cal, Calabrian; Cha, Chattian; Cret., Cretaceous; Dan, Danian; Gel, Gelasian; Ion, Ionian; K/Pg, Cretaceous/Paleogene boundary; Lan, Langhian; Lut, Lutetian; M2, first major glacial event in the NH; Maa, Maastrichtian; Mes, Messinian; NH, Northern Hemisphere; Oi-1, the first major glacial period in the Oligocene; Pia, Piacenzian; Pleist., Pleistocene; Plio., Pliocene; Pri, Priabonian; Rup, Rupelian; Sel, Selandian; Ser, Serravallian; SH, Southern Hemisphere; Tha, Thanetian; Tor, Tortonian; Ypr, Ypresian; Zan, Zanclean.

The first thing I noticed was that their main Figure was quite different from the figure in the press release. No fan-shaped predictions of the future. Hmmm, sez I … however, the figure used in the press release is indeed in the Supplemental Information.

Next, I never believe anything without running the numbers myself. So I went and got the datasets, they’re online here. The graph above is based on dataset S34.

There’s an oddity in Figures 1 & 2 just above. The 18O dataset is shown both in its original units (left-hand y-scale) and alternate units (right-hand y-scale). These alternate units are temperature anomaly in °C. Not only that, but according to Figure 1, the relationship between original and alternate units is linear. Who knew? Is it true? I have no idea, but I’ll take their data as read and see where it leads.

What I did with their data was to digitize the 18O data in Figure 2 above, using both the original and the alternate units. That let me back-calculate their conversion formula. Then I used their formula to convert their entire 18O dataset from the original units to temperature anomaly in °C.

Now that we have 67 million years of temperature data, allow me to get side-tractored for a moment to explain my interest and objective in analyzing the CENOGRID dataset. As I’ve mentioned before, I’m a heretic, which is different from a skeptic. A skeptic mostly challenges conclusions and methods. A heretic, on the other hand, questions the underlying assumptions. Or to put it another way, a skeptic doubts parts of things. A heretic disagrees with the fundamental assumptions that the whole edifice is based on.

The assumption at the base of this whole climate edifice is that all other variables somehow magically cancel out and that at the end of the story, the temperature of the earth is determined by variations in downwelling radiation (radiation headed towards the earth’s surface). In climate science, this downwelling radiation is known by a term-of-art as “radiative forcing”. This downwelling radiation is the sum of radiation from the sun plus the thermal radiation emitted by the clouds and the atmosphere.

In simple terms, the claim is that the change in global temperature is a function of the change in global forcing. Since changes in downwelling radiation are generally most related to changes in CO2 levels, I call this the “CO2 Roolz Temperature” theory, although of course there are other greenhouse gases (GHGs). That’s the claim driving the current insane war on CO2—the hypothesis that CO2 rules temperature, and that if we can simply drive CO2 levels lower, the world will be cooler.

And that is the claim I heretically and emphatically dispute—the idea that the long-term changes in temperature are a linear function of changes in CO2 forcing. 

Further, not only is the change in temperature said to be a function of the change in forcing. It is said to be a linear change, meaning that the change in temperature is equal to the change in forcing times some constant value. 

This constant is called the “climate sensitivity”, meaning how sensitive the temperature is to a change in forcing. Climate sensitivity is generally represented by the Greek letter lambda (λ). It is a positive number with a hotly-disputed value estimated to be somewhere between one-half and eight … here’s the history of the estimates.

Figure 3. Estimates of ECS (equilibrium climate sensitivity). Colors indicate what type of underlying data they are based on. Horizontal dashed lines show the canonical range of “climate sensitivity”, which is 1.5 – 4.5°C / 2xCO2. The units (°C/2xCO2) are degrees of warming which are said to result from a doubling of atmospheric CO2.

Now, consider that we’ve been working on this question of the value of the “climate sensitivity” for over forty years. In that time we’ve expended hundreds of thousands of person-hours, millions of dollars, and huge amounts of computer time on the question … and during that forty years, rather than either finding or even being able to narrow down the value of one dumb number … the uncertainty about the value of “climate sensitivity” has steadily increased.  

Increased! Our estimates of the “climate sensitivity” are becoming less certain rather than more certain!

During the period shown in Figure 3, entire new branches of science have sprung up, like DNA analysis and proteomics and femtosecond lasers and receptor biology, and have advanced to an unimaginable degree … and meanwhile, in climate science we’re even further from measuring the “climate sensitivity” than when we started 40 years ago. 

Climate models have gone from relatively simple and running on ordinary computers, to unimaginably complex and running on supercomputers. The computers themselves have thousands of times more speed and memory than they had forty years ago. Every year we’ve put more money and more work and more computer cycles into the question … and despite that huge investment, regarding the “climate sensitivity” we’re still increasing in uncertainty even today. 

And it’s even worse than the graph shows. The estimates from the latest “CMIP6” models are not shown in that graph, and their estimates of “climate sensitivity” are even wider in range.

To me, there is one and only one conclusion to draw from this obvious and hugely expensive failure—the underlying description of reality is wrong

That’s why I put “climate sensitivity” in quotes … I don’t think it actually exists. I think it is part of an incorrect understanding of climate.

And that is my heresy—I do not think that changes in temperature are a constant “climate sensitivity” times the changes in forcing. I think the climate operates in a very different manner.

To be sure, our inability to determine the so-called “climate sensitivity” doesn’t tell us what might control the temperature … but it clearly tells us it’s not the amount of downwelling radiation. 

And that means we need a new underlying description of how the climate works. I say the climate is not like an oven, where you turn up or down the GHG gases and the oven slavishly gets warmer and colder. Instead, I say it works as follows:

When something acts to drive the temperature of the planet either up or down, the climate system ACTIVELY RESPONDS to shift it back towards the status quo ante.

A good introduction to my idea of how the climate works is my post called Emergent Climate Phenomena. There is also an index of my posts on the subject here.

For the math folks in the crowd, the mathematical equation that the Earth is supposed to obey according to the generally accepted theory is

∆T = λ ∆F

where ∆ is “change in”, T is temperature, λ is climate sensitivity, and F is forcing.

I am unaware of any rigorous examination of evidence for this claim. I discuss its derivation here. It obviously is trivially true for say a block of steel.

But for complex systems like the climate or the human body, it may not be true at all. For example, if I walk out in the sun, the total forcing “F” changes by hundreds of W/m2, and despite that my core temperature “T” barely moves … what is my “climate sensitivity”? Near zero.

And if you don’t think that happens in the climate, here’s an example. CERES satellite data lets us calculate the relationship between downwelling radiation (∆F) and the surface temperature (∆T). And for most of the world, we find that indeed, they are strongly positively correlated—when forcing goes up, temperature goes up in a roughly linear fashion.

But in a large expanse of the equatorial oceans, we find that the exact opposite is happening. Temperature and forcing not only decouple, but they move in opposite directions—forcing is increasing as the temperature is decreasing, and vice versa.

Figure 4. Correlation of total surface absorption with total surface emission.

Perhaps someone can tell me … in the blue areas in the graph, where ∆T and ∆F are negatively correlated … just what is the climate sensitivity? Minus 1.5?

The widely held but incorrect idea that ∆T = λ ∆F may arise from the fact that as Figure 4 above shows, on land in the extratropics, ∆T is indeed highly positively correlated with ∆F (red areas in Figure 1), and that’s where most people live.

But the oceans and the tropics tell a different story. The average ocean correlation of forcing and temperature is only 0.44, half the average land correlation, and as mentioned, large areas are negatively correlated …

My friend Nic Lewis suggested that decoupling of forcing and temperature might be from a delay in the response. However, a cross-correlation analysis (not shown) of the area in blue above says that there’s no lag between downwelling surface radiation and the resulting heating.

This means that while forcing controls the temperature many places, in the blue areas the only conclusion possible is that the temperature is decoupled from the forcing … which kinda knocks a hole in the underlying equation that claims that forcing roolz temperature, no? …

So with that as prologue, let me return to the CENOGRID study. We’ve seen that it contains temperature information. The change in CO2 forcing varies as the logarithm of the CO2 concentration. So if we make a scatterplot of temperature versus the log of the CO2 forcing, we should get something resembling a straight line.

Fortunately, the CENOGRID study also contains a graph of the CO2 levels for the past 67 million years. It’s Figure S34 in the Supplemental Information.

Unfortunately, they didn’t put in a table or a link to the actual values. Grrr …

Fortunately, I’m a patient man, so I digitized their graph. That gave me the CO2 data I needed to compare with the geological temperatures shown in Figure 2. Remember, we’re expecting temperature versus the logarithm of CO2 to plot as a sloped straight line …

However, Figure 5 shows the actual situation with the CENOGRID temperature and CO2 data.

Figure 5. Scatterplot of temperature versus the log of carbon dioxide concentration. Blue dots are individual data points. Colored/Black lines are the million-year Loess average of both variables. Because of the long-term averaging, and because the data only go to 1950, the point marked “present” has lower temperatures and CO2 values than the actual 2020 situation.

Temperature vs. log CO2 should plot as a sloped straight line where both either go up or go down together? … I don’t think so. This kinda defines the concept of “non-linear”. And the claimed relationship between CO2 and temperature doesn’t seem to exist.

Consider, for example, the period of the first Warmhouse (orange) to the end of the Hothouse (red). During that time, the individual CO2 values (blue dots) went from ~ 260 to ~ 1200 ppmv, more than two doublings … but the temperature barely rose.

And the situation is worse in Coolhouse 1. Over the twenty million year period from 34 to 14 million years ago, the CO2 varied from about 290 to 800 ppmv, going up and down repeatedly within that range.

But over that twenty million years, the temperature basically didn’t vary much at all!.

In fact, that seems to be the general case. Each of the periods that they identify in their paper, from Hothouse down to Icehouse, contains times lasting millions of years when CO2 goes up and down, doubling and halving, but the temperature only varies minimally. Look at Figure 1.

Now, I thought that the hype was all in the press release. However, the authors themselves say:

If CO2 emissions continue unmitigated until 2100, as assumed for the RCP8.5 scenario, Earth’s climate system will be moved abruptly from the Icehouse into the Warmhouse or even Hothouse climate state. 

The climate “will be moved abruptly” … be afraid. Be very afraid …

First off, the RCP8.5 scenario is the hyper-alarmist scenario. It shouldn’t be used. But more to the point, even if these are separate stable climate states, where is the evidence that CO2 levels are driving the shift between the states? 

Because according to their own data, the shifts between the states don’t generally occur at the extreme CO2 values during that climate state. And in fact, the shift from Coolhouse 2 to Icehouse occurred at a higher CO2 level than the shift from Coolhouse 1 to the colder Coolhouse 2.

Next, suppose our CO2 were to go up to 700 ppmv … unlikely, but possible. In Figure 5, 700 ppmv of CO2 corresponds to three past temperatures— 5°, 10°, and 14° warmer than their “present” (average of last 10,000 years).

So which of their hothouses are they saying that we would end up in?

In short, I see absolutely nothing in their analysis to support their alarmist statement which is driving the media hype.

I must say, when I started out to look at this CENOGRID dataset, I did not expect to find persuasive evidence that CO2 is not the secret temperature knob controlling the temperature. But that is the clear conclusion from the CENOGRID study … nor is this a surprise in the larger sense.

I ask you … in what other complex physical flow system far from equilibrium is some typical steady-state parameter a simple function of only one of dozens of input and other variables? It makes no sense that all other variables would average out and only CO2 would make a difference to the global temperature.

TL;DR version?

The CENOGRID data says that changing atmospheric CO2 levels do not cause global temperature changes.

… or for the mathletes …

∆T ≠ λ ∆F


It’s night here on our patch of hill, six miles (10 km) from the Pacific Ocean and an hour and a half north of San Francisco. I just went outside, and it took my breath away. For the first time in a couple of weeks, I could see the stars.

The smoke here from the West Coast fires has been of various thicknesses and altitudes, but constant. One day last week it was so thick we had room lights on all day. When darkness came that night, not one of the solar path lamps had enough power to come on.

This recent week, the smoke has been up at a higher altitude. It’s been blown out over the ocean up by Oregon. From there it went out to sea and then circled back in. It has been riding on top of the “marine layer” as it’s been coming back into the coast here.

The California coast is funny. There’s a bone-cold deep-sea current that strikes the coast and upwells in a strip along the whole north coast that’s maybe 30 to 60 miles wide (50-100 km) from the shore outwards.

And there’s generally a warm moist wind that blows over the land from the warm blue north Pacific Ocean. But when the wind hits that strip of cold green water along the coast, the lowest layer of air cools way down. Being cold, it’s heavy. So when it hits the land it tends to hug the surface. And if the temperature is cool enough, the moist wind turns to fog.

This ground-level layer of cold air and fog is called the “marine layer”. It’s generally on the order of half-mile to a mile (a couple km) thick. And the Oregon smoke coming back in off the ocean is up above the marine layer here.

This has kept the worst of the smoke off of us, but the combination of smoke and fog has blocked the sun, moon, and most of all the stars for far too long.

So when I looked up tonight expecting gray, and I saw instead the Milky Way coruscating across the black velvet sky and Mars sitting on the celestial equator, I was lost in wonder at the stupendous glory of our magnificent eternity.

And I thought, “Indeed, the earth abides,” and my heart was eased.

My best regards to all, if you’re ordering the bat soup tell them to go easy on the bats, stay well,

w.

PS—As usual, I ask that when you comment, you quote the exact words that you are discussing. This avoids misunderstanding as to what and even who you are talking about.

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ResourceGuy
September 15, 2020 10:42 am

One must keep up with the Tokamak neighbors on spending after all.

Greg
Reply to  Willis Eschenbach
September 15, 2020 12:03 pm

Thanks for having patience to dig into this. You have a typo calling “Coolhouse 1” , Icehouse 1 but the point is good. There was a doubling of CO2 in that period and neglibible change in temps. In fact it’s slightly negative with the higher CO2 end being slightly cooler.

That should put a nail in the coffin of the persistent fraudulent attempts to rewrite geological history to make CO2 the control knob.

Nice work.

c1ue
September 15, 2020 10:49 am

Thanks, Willis, for continuing objective analysis of public nonsense.
I do wonder what the impact of smoke was on the solar PV and wind “alternative energy” generation so fancied by the catastrophic climate change crowd.

Curious George
September 15, 2020 10:52 am

“During the period shown in Figure 1, entire new branches of science have sprung up” – make it Figure 3.

rbabcock
September 15, 2020 10:59 am

I’m sure the author’s of this “study” never expected someone to actually take the same data and do an independent look see. My guess is we will never hear a peep from them since rarely (ever?) does anyone get called on their conclusions as long as it tows the line.

Chaswarnertoo
Reply to  rbabcock
September 15, 2020 11:29 pm

Toes!

John Tillman
September 15, 2020 10:59 am

Ma or Mya means “million years ago”. YBP signifies years before present, where “present” means 1950. But for millions of years, geologists and astronomers just go with “ago”, although the former prefer mya and the latter myr.

John Tillman
Reply to  John Tillman
September 15, 2020 11:39 am

This somewhat counter-consensus paper on Cretaceous CO2 uses “Myr”.

The Cretaceous has always posed problems for models.

CO2 and temperature decoupling at the million-year scale during the Cretaceous Greenhouse

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-08234-0

CO2 is considered the main greenhouse gas involved in the current global warming and the primary driver of temperature throughout Earth’s history. However, the soundness of this relationship across time scales and during different climate states of the Earth remains uncertain. Here we explore how CO2 and temperature are related in the framework of a Greenhouse climate state of the Earth. We reconstruct the long-term evolution of atmospheric CO2 concentration (pCO2) throughout the Cretaceous from the carbon isotope compositions of the fossil conifer Frenelopsis. We show that pCO2 was in the range of ca. 150–650 ppm during the Barremian–Santonian interval, far less than what is usually considered for the mid Cretaceous. Comparison with available temperature records suggest that although CO2 may have been a main driver of temperature and primary production at kyr or smaller scales, it was a long-term consequence of the climate-biological system, being decoupled or even showing inverse trends with temperature, at Myr scales. Our analysis indicates that the relationship between CO2 and temperature is time scale-dependent at least during Greenhouse climate states of the Earth and that primary productivity is a key factor to consider in both past and future analyses of the climate system.

Reply to  John Tillman
September 15, 2020 12:19 pm

So we had no-Greenhouse climate states ?
But only because CO2 and temperature didn’t correlate during some era….
Seems questionable….

Ian W
Reply to  Krishna Gans
September 17, 2020 6:28 am

It supports the Willis Heresy.

Perhaps not only is CO2 not the control knob – perhaps CO2 has no real effect on the overall atmospheric and surface temperatures of the Earth which is a complex chaotic system not, as Willis said, a simple block of iron.

The earth is 90% water or land covered with plants transpiring water. Simplistic heat vector down hits surface therefore surface warmer is untrue. In Florida in the midday Sun walk barefoot across a lawn then step onto a concrete path. The temperature difference is immediately apparent. The grass is cool the path is very hot.

Now consider downwelling infrared reaching the 75% of the surface that is oceans. The infrared is absorbed by the first water molecule it collides with and increases the energy of the water molecule which may then have the required energy to evaporate – taking the latent heat of evaporation with it – more than the downwelling infrared has added. So the surface of oceans are coooled by downwelling infrared. A volume of air containing water vapor is lighter than dry air (H2O is lighter than O2 or N2) so it will convect upward and be replaced by drier air increasing the evaporative cooling as a breeze is caused.

It is no accident that the cool areas in Willis’ map are at the ITCZ and the towering convective thunderstorms of the Hadley Cells.

I am with the heretic

If you want a simple way for the atmosphere to be warmer ‘than it should be’ then latent heat being released by water molecules on condensation and freezing would provide that for the troposphere in far larger quantities than CO2 scattering of infrared.

Alex
September 15, 2020 11:02 am

Wrong data?
CO2 at present is not 200 ppm, but rather 400 ppm and the temperature is much higher.

Bill Taylor
Reply to  Alex
September 15, 2020 11:25 am

co2 is a very minor ghg and the human portion of co2 is only about maybe 5% of that MINOR gas…….blaming humans for climate change is IDIOCY.

MarkW
Reply to  Alex
September 15, 2020 11:31 am

Much higher? Where?

Mike
Reply to  Alex
September 15, 2020 11:36 am

Figure 5. Scatterplot of temperature versus the log of carbon dioxide concentration. Blue dots are individual data points. Colored/Black lines are the million-year Loess average of both variables. Because of the long-term averaging, and because the data only go to 1950, the point marked “present” has lower temperatures and CO2 values than the actual 2020 situation.

CD in Wisconsin
Reply to  Alex
September 15, 2020 12:18 pm

Alex:

You are inferring that correlation implies causation between temperature and CO2 in your comment. Please enlighten yourself on the fallacy of doing so….

“..In statistics, the phrase “correlation does not imply causation” refers to the inability to legitimately deduce a cause-and-effect relationship between two variables solely on the basis of an observed association or correlation between them.[1][2] The idea that “correlation implies causation” is an example of a questionable-cause logical fallacy, in which two events occurring together are taken to have established a cause-and-effect relationship.>>”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

Although the explanation above refers to the correlation-causation fallacy in statistics, I believe I would be accurate in stating that the fallacy applies in science as well.

Bill Taylor
Reply to  CD in Wisconsin
September 15, 2020 1:58 pm

example = every person that gets any disease and dies drank water, does drinking water cause disease and then death?…a 100% correlation, but ZERO cause

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Bill Taylor
September 15, 2020 3:51 pm

Bill
To be fair, you should quantify the amount of water drunk and compare that with either how sick people get, or the age at which they die. Otherwise, you cannot assign a correlation coefficient or amount of variance assigned to either variable.

Craig from Oz
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
September 15, 2020 7:58 pm

Hang on, are you suggesting we need to split our death figures into ‘Died from water’ and ‘Died with water’?

I can’t see the point of that. Water is water. Every new case of water is a cause for concern and we should… no, MUST lock down the entire planet until either a water vaccine is found or until after the US elections.

Clearly.

CD in Wisconsin
Reply to  Bill Taylor
September 15, 2020 6:05 pm

Gotta quit drinking water, it’s killing me. /sarc

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  CD in Wisconsin
September 15, 2020 9:15 pm

CD
Its like that old saying, “You can’t live with it, and you can’t live without it!”

Oriel Kolnai
Reply to  CD in Wisconsin
September 16, 2020 12:16 am

Alex infers ‘co-relation implies causation’ Correct – it may not, however it may. For speculation is driven by error. Over centuries, cholera co-related with ‘foul air’ and many died. Dr John Snow realised this so-say co-relation was not the cause, and in a leap of the imagination correctly hypothesised contaminated water. But notice that he first challenged the co-relation at its root. A false hypothesis was thereby made fruitful.

Alex simply wants to know what the current situation is, with CO2 at near double levels to those of 1950. Temperature is rising at 0.14 degree each decade (according to UAH data). However in the earlier modern period (roughly between 1950 and 1980) temperature fell whilst CO2 rocketed up, leading to predictions of an ice age, hence predictive failure.

We are still a long way from understanding climate change in any other than vast (hence vague) timesets. All we really need is free debate (C19th standards) and colossal amounts of work and testing. And thereby hangs a real problem…..the treason of the clerics.

Reply to  Oriel Kolnai
September 16, 2020 10:32 am

The foul air = mal air, malaria not cholera.

Reply to  CD in Wisconsin
September 16, 2020 3:32 am

Correlation does not imply causation, but there is no causation without correlation. In short, correlation is necessary but not sufficient for causation.

Sunderlandsteve
Reply to  Alex
September 15, 2020 12:39 pm

Read the article again!
Willis points out this data is for 1950, not now.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Sunderlandsteve
September 15, 2020 9:17 pm

Sunder
What’s 70 years out of 65 million?

Reply to  Clyde Spencer
September 17, 2020 10:00 pm

Clyde,
Speaking of 65 Myrs ago, the Meteor impact barely moved the CO2 needle. No way it killed off the dinosaurs.

Reply to  Sunderlandsteve
September 15, 2020 11:54 pm

Sunderlandsteve,

Not really – Willis points out the data used for the crossplot are the 1 Ma average data – so “present” represents the period of the last 1 million years. The difference between 1950 and 2020 has little impact on a million year average.

Reply to  Alex
September 15, 2020 11:51 pm

Alex – read the data description and Willis’ title of his graph. The data is originally sampled at 2 kyr (0 – 34 Ma) and 4.4 kyr (34 – 67 Ma). Data are then resampled and smoothed. Willis is showing the 1 Ma smoothed data in his crossplot, hence the point marked “present” shows the average over 1 million years before 1950. Willis clearly states this in his title.

This is also a good lesson in why you ABSOLUTELY CANNOT SPLICE ON CURRENT DAY OR SCENARIOS PROJECTING 100 YEARS IN THE FUTURE AND COMPARE to such low resolution data, as the original authors have done. Even at 2000 yr resolution, showing a point for say RCP8.5 80 years in the future has a MUCH higher variance than even the 2 kyr sampling. The original authors should know this and should not plot those points for comparisons – its pure propaganda. If the original authors don’t know this then they are incompetent.

See Marcott 2013 for exactly the same nonsense of plotting points at different resolution to make the projections look alarming in a historical context.

Reply to  ThinkingScientist
September 16, 2020 12:28 am

I posted an example of the effect of smoothing further down, but to show how a future “RCP” projection would plot I’ll repeat simple example here at 2000 yr resolution.

Lets suppose for 2000 years the CO2 has been 285 ppm and that the temperature anomaly was 0 degC
Lets imagine we have a scenario of 100 yrs of increasing CO2 to 570 ppm at the end of the period, with a T anomaly at the end of 100 yrs of +4 degC.

Over the next 100 yrs the average CO2 is (285+570)/2 = 427.5 ppm
Over the next 100 yrs the average T is (0+4)/2 = +2 degC

Now lets convert the 2000 yr average point of 285 ppm/ 0 T to a same resolution point 100 years in the future:

1900/2000 * 285 ppm + 100/2000 * 427.5 ppm = 292.125 ppm
1900/2000 * 0 T + 100/2000 * 2 T = 0.1 degC

So at the same resolution, a point 100 yrs in the future which is +4 deg C and doubled CO2 from 285 ppm would only plot 0.1 degC anomaly higher and at 292 ppm (2%).

that’s why the original authors representation of RCP pathways is complete bollocks and designed to intentionally mislead.

Sam the First
Reply to  ThinkingScientist
September 16, 2020 1:13 pm

Can you write a refutation to send to Science magazine? Maybe you have enough clout that it would get published.

Phil
September 15, 2020 11:07 am

Thanks for explaining that I am a heretic. For a long time I have thought our atmosphere is a multivariate system. I have just never been able to express it as eloquently as you have now done.

rah
September 15, 2020 11:07 am

How many decades now have they been telling us we’re all gonna roast? At 02:00 this morning this trucker woke up in a rest area on I-96 west of Grand Rapids and a little east of Spring Lake, MI under his heavy blanket. When I got out of the truck to use the facilities and do my pre-trip inspection I wished I had put on a long sleeve shirt. It was 50 deg. F and I wasn’t from from lake Michigan. Doggone leftists are always promising stuff that I never get! I want my “global warming” sometime before I die!

Carl Friis-Hansen
Reply to  rah
September 15, 2020 12:45 pm

Rah, Grand Rapids MI is relatively close to the Canadian border.
As someone said the other day: “Climate Change stops at the Canadian border.”
So you were just experiencing a tiny spill over of Climate Stop in Canada.

rah
Reply to  Carl Friis-Hansen
September 15, 2020 1:12 pm

Actually Grand Rapids is not even half way up between the Indiana state line and the top of the Michigan mitten. But it is about the same latitude as London, ON. Done plenty of loads into Ontario and a few into Quebec but the furthest north I have been driving a big truck is Owens Sound. When in the Army I spent a couple days and nights up at Goose Bay. Been a few other places in Canada also.

Yooper
Reply to  rah
September 15, 2020 2:16 pm

I just made the 420 mile trip N-S from Sault Ste. Marie, MI on the Canadian border to Fort Wayne, IN and all I can say is: what a nice white sky. So, I got to wondering, if what I saw was smoke from the burning left coast the smoke plume is on a scale of a major eruption. We’re just entering Autumn, could this make this coming winter a wee bit colder?

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  rah
September 15, 2020 3:55 pm

rah
Goose Bay is a delightful place. We stopped briefly to re-fuel the aircraft before heading to Thule air base. It was early July and it was overcast. I didn’t go outside, but it looked cold and wet.

rah
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
September 15, 2020 4:25 pm

Whole bunch of Injun country right outside the gate. Real wilderness. One doesn’t even have to leave the base to see that. The Ops center is underground and outside engine block heater hookups hang down over each parking space.
In my picture collection I have a photo taken out the window of a C-130 in flight that shows a feathered prop and then down below an iceberg. Lost an engine in transit back to Ft. Devens, MA from Copenhagen and landed at Goose Bay.

Ian W
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
September 17, 2020 6:37 am

Flew out of Goose Bay (minus 37C) to Deer Lake.
On descent into Deer Lake, pilot reported the weather as “scattered snow showers light winds and a pleasantly warm minus 10C.”

Reply to  Carl Friis-Hansen
September 15, 2020 2:52 pm

No, its intelligence that stops at the canadian border.
Sadly.
Some of us try but its so hard..

“so much stupid, so little time to mock it all”.

Yooper
Reply to  Pat from Kerbob
September 15, 2020 4:16 pm

Hmmm…. going North or South from the border?…. 😉

Justin asking, eh?

September 15, 2020 11:08 am

You are a hero in my eyes for doing all this work and it is great work.
Unfortunately, you are Cassandra. Nothing you or anyone else can say will change their minds or propaganda. It will take a lot of snow on the ground in August to make a dent. Even then, they will claim it was caused by CO2

Thomas Gasloli
September 15, 2020 11:10 am

I guess what it comes down to is: how much data does there have to be to show CO2 has nothing to do with it before the PhDs will admit it, and I include in that the so-called lukewarmers like Curry & Christy . I’m not requiring them to point to another cause, just admit this one is wrong.

CO2 causes climate change is a zombie hypothesis. There is no life in this scientifically unsupported hypothesis, and yet it is still around. It is truly mind boggling.

Ron Long
September 15, 2020 11:19 am

Interesting data presentation, Willis. A geologist named Peter Wylie wrote a book titled: The Dynamic Earth, which was an introduction, for many geologists, to the complex Plate Tectonics history and current activity of the earth. It looks like your data plot Fig. 5 shows trends that persist for some millions of years then the trends enter into another control mechanism. When we look at long stretches of earth history we need to include an analysis of where the plates (continents, if you want) were with respect to each other and at what latitude they were. The changing positions of these plates forces changing patterns of ocean currents. If there was an Ice Age and no continents were in generally polar locations you couldn’t stack up ice on them and the floating sea ice would not change sea level, for instance. When will there be sufficiently accurate data to analyze the chaotic climate history of the earth and correlate it with an ever-changing mix of control mechanisms?
I’m presuming the negative forcing effect for equatorial oceans is due to the build-up of cumulonimbas clouds/thunderstorms, which are efficient movers of thermal energy to upper atmospheric levels. Willis, you have seen more than your share of these clouds building almost every day, what do you think?

mikewaite
Reply to  Ron Long
September 15, 2020 11:42 am

In support of your comment, Ron, the global picture (Fig 4 above) shows lower correlation figures on land, similar to those of the ocean, in areas where the remaining rain forests are located : the amazon and tributaries , Congo and the tip of SE Asia.

Gary Wescom
Reply to  Ron Long
September 15, 2020 1:05 pm

Continental Drift may be an important factor. Just a casual look showed the Hot House to Warm House switch happened about the time the Africa/Eurasia gap closed. Warm house to Cool 1 switch was about when the Africa/Antarctica gap opened. The Cool 1 to Cool 2 switch occurred about when Australia/Asia gap was closing. Of course, all these dates are a bit vague as the continental motion is so slow. Transitions in ocean current tracks that might cause significant climate changes would be slow also but could easily in the million or two year range.

Paul of Alexandria
Reply to  Ron Long
September 15, 2020 3:13 pm

I’d ask: what happened between 34 and 47 mya? Sure looks like a system state (attractor?) change to me.

Gary Wescom
Reply to  Willis Eschenbach
September 15, 2020 8:21 pm

Perhaps those attractors are thermohaline circulation patterns allowed by specific crustal plate configurations. As crustal plates shift, eventually configurations occur forcing shifting thermohaline current paths. Different upwelling/downwelling areas develop. Areas and amounts of equatorial-polar energy transfer shift. Earth’s temperature could easily be shifted with each major ocean current path shift affecting heat transport.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Ron Long
September 15, 2020 4:04 pm

Ron
I have felt for some time that ECS is not a constant representing the slope of the relationship between CO2 and temperature, but is, instead, a variable that changes with temperature, CO2, and other things. In fact, if the actual causal relationship is reversed from what the alarmists assume, then the relative proportion of land versus ocean may be an important influence. That is, plate tectonics changes the surface area of ocean water from which degassing can supply CO2 to the atmosphere. I agree with Willis that the data do not support the physical model that is the current paradigm.

John Andrews
Reply to  Ron Long
September 16, 2020 7:44 am

It seems to me that the time periods involved of millions of years means that the earth’s position in the galaxy is changing enough that the cosmic ray flux would be an important factor in the cloudiness and therefore, the albedo and temperature of the earth. No one seems to consider this. I think it may be important.

John
September 15, 2020 11:22 am

Thanks for your analysis and comments. It might be helpful to add in data through 2020 on your graph to see the “alarming” trend vs millions of years in the past.

Reply to  John
September 16, 2020 12:10 am

NO! That’s the deceptive trick the original authors were trying to pull by plotting the RCP points. Wrong resolution – no comparison possible.

By way of example, lets eyeball the plot and estimate that the average CO2 for the last million years is 210 ppm and the mean temp anomaly is -4.

Now lets add in an average temperature rise of 2 deg over 100 yrs (ie anomaly of -2) and a CO2 average of 450 ppm over that 100 yrs. How does that affect the point marked present?

Weighted averaging would approximately give us:

999900/1e6 * 210ppm + 100/1e6 * 450ppm = 210.024 ppm
999900/1e6 * -4 T + 100/1e06 * -2T = -3.9998 T

So the next 1 Ma average point, including some huge projected temp rise into the next 100 yrs by RCP whatever, when plotted at the same resolution, would be indistinguishable from the point marked “present”.

Resolution changes variance (variance goes down as the averaging becomes larger). That’s why whenever points like RCP8.5 are plotted on paleo data its bollocks intended to make a propaganda point and imply the future is outside natural variability. There are ways to correct variance for change of scale (known as “support” in geostatistics) – I should probably write something up on it and show some examples. The difficulty is the methods rely on stationary processes, but it would be worth showing a stationary example to demonstrate how bogus the practice of plotting modern values and projections on very averaged paleo data is.

Latitude
September 15, 2020 11:27 am

I’m a firm believer that the set temp for this planet is a whole lot colder….

…and the further you get away from that…the harder it is to pull it off

John Tillman
September 15, 2020 11:28 am

Estimates of CO2 levels before the PETM vary greatly. At Castle Rock, CO, the range estimate is 352 to 1110 ppm, with a median of 616 ppm. Willis’ Figure 5 shows it moving from 400 ppm to below 300 ppm, then up to 600 ppm in the earliest Eocene. Other proxy studies have suggested 1500 to 2500 during the PETM itself, although this has been doubted.

Temperature and atmospheric CO2 concentration estimates through the PETM using triple oxygen isotope analysis of mammalian bioapatite

https://www.pnas.org/content/113/28/7739

The science is unsettled and so sullied by climate profiteers’ wishful publishing that the “data” aren’t fit for any purpose.

John Tillman
Reply to  John Tillman
September 15, 2020 1:17 pm

Some Cretaceous CO2 estimates, based upon somata, checked against other proxies:

https://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/52154475/Mid-Cretaceous_pCO2_based_on_stomata_of_20170314-20809-141yu0n.pdf

(A) low of ~560–960 ppm in the early Barremian (129 Ma) and a high of ~620–1200 ppm in the Albian (101.5-113 Ma).

But then the world warmed up, and estimates of CO2 reach 1000 ppm or higher during the Cretaceous Thermal Maximum (CTM), which began at the Cenomanian-Turonian transition ~94 Ma, and peaked about 90 Ma. CO2 then used to be thought higher, but, perhaps in order better to jibe with models, guesses have been falling.

The CTM included an ocean anoxic event, in which ichthyosaurs appear to have gone extinct, opening up niches for the rapid evolution of mosasaurs.

MarkW
September 15, 2020 11:32 am

In figure 3, there seem to be half a dozen papers coming out every year, up til about 2018, then no more papers.
Did they just give up trying to figure out what the ECS is?

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Willis Eschenbach
September 15, 2020 2:53 pm

Willis
You said, “… we’re even further from measuring the “climate sensitivity” than when we started 40 years ago.” I predict that there will be consensus on the correct ECS when the first commercial, thermonuclear fusion reactor comes online. 🙂

Larry in Texas
September 15, 2020 11:33 am

Willis, again I have to thank you for the continuing education you give me (the mere layman) on the subject of climate. I have always wondered (along with others, I know) why only one variable – one that currently comprises around 0.468% of the total composition of Earth’s atmosphere, especially – controls the temperatures (I say that deliberately plural, because we are all familiar with weather and climate regional variations) of the Earth. You once again expose the charlatans for who they are.

Scissor
Reply to  Larry in Texas
September 15, 2020 5:06 pm

Are you talking about CO2? It’s about 415 ppm, which is ~0.04%.

Bill_W_1984
September 15, 2020 11:33 am

Willis,

For this: “And the situation is worse in Icehouse 1. “, I think you mean Coolhouse1

menace
September 15, 2020 11:34 am

If we get back to “Coolhouse” level, perhaps we can end or abate the Quaternary glaciations (i.e. Ice Ages)

Sounds like a good thing to me

Eric Eikenberry
September 15, 2020 11:40 am

One day they’ll come to realize that it’s not the makeup of the atoms in the atmosphere but rather the currents which circulate the atmosphere from ocean to continent and back which controls global temps. But hey, what do I know. This is why the system is self-regulating always back to semi-equilibrium. The rise of the Isthmus of Panama is (reported by geologists) what set up the “cool house” and “ice house” climate as it wrecked the equatorial current in the oceans and created a new “gulf stream” paradigm. When the flow patterns change, the global temperature changes. When the sun’s output changes, the flow patterns change. Period.

Meanwhile, I shall continue to enjoy CO2 in my Coca-Cola with a wry smile.

John Tillman
Reply to  Eric Eikenberry
September 15, 2020 12:52 pm

A Cool House, with Antarctic ice sheet, occurred during the Oligocene and Miocene Epochs after deep ocean channels opened between Antarctic and South America and Australia. Cooling reversed slightly during the mid-Miocene as the Scotia Plate’s movement briefly (in geotime) shoaled the Drake Passage.

Then we entered an Ice House, with NH ice sheets, when the Isthmus of Panama was created. A shallow Inter-American Seaway briefly reopened around 1.8 Ma, which used to be the start of the Pleistocene before the Gelasian Age, c. 2.6 to 1.8 Ma, was correctly added to it.

Reply to  Eric Eikenberry
September 17, 2020 3:18 pm

John
Thanks for your illuminating geology-palaeontology comments.

Bruce Cobb
September 15, 2020 12:01 pm

Meanwhile, climate “science” appears to be barreling towards the Nuthouse state.

Rich Davis
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
September 15, 2020 5:47 pm

+1000

Joe Campbell
September 15, 2020 12:13 pm

Willis: Your figure 5 is extraordinary! Notice that the “yellow” and “red” data form a nearly flat presentation (temperature anomaly almost constant over a wide variation in CO2 concentration), terminated by the “gold” denoted data, with it’s strange shape. Then the “Coolhouse 1” data set presents, again, almost a constant temperature anomaly over a large range of CO2 values, again terminated with a strange, but kinda-familiar, shape. Finally, there is not enough “Icehouse” data to suggest “three nails it”, but the other earlier data sets certainly suggest that temperature anomaly is decoupled from CO2 concentration. Rather, it looks as if “Mother Earth” runs along for millions of years only to be disturbed by “something”, hammers around until stability is again reached, which again lasts for millions of more years, only to be shocked again. The system seems to be searching again for a new stability point…

Stevek
September 15, 2020 12:18 pm

Always trust real observations over the models

Adrian Mann
Reply to  Stevek
September 15, 2020 1:21 pm

If the models, or theories, or guesses disagree with observation, then they are wrong.

https://youtu.be/EYPapE-3FRw

sycomputing
Reply to  Adrian Mann
September 15, 2020 4:13 pm

Hey now thanks to Adrian for adding to Stevek’s comment by elucidating his theory via restating it practically word for word!

Nice work Adrian!

rickk
September 15, 2020 12:30 pm

I thought (aka read across many of the climate change websites) that temperature rise nearly always preceded CO2 rise – going back multi-millions of years…or were those special graphs.

Further were these authors ‘hoisted on their own petard’ when their data was interrogated with your granularity?

Reply to  rickk
September 15, 2020 1:32 pm

rickk – Should be hoist with their own petard, from Shakespeare’s Hamlet, which means blown up by their own bomb.

I am constantly amazed how slow WE and other so-called climate experts are to ‘get’ that 1) An atmosphere can’t heat the surface with its own heat by any means, but only cool it 2) atmospheric CO2’s absorption/emission wavelength of 15 microns has a Planck radiation temperature of -80C, which means it can only absorb or emit the same cold radiation as dry ice, hence it can’t melt an ice cube and can’t even interfere with Earth’s surface temperature range of -50C to +50C. Entire realms of geology, paleontology, etc. have to be towed out to sea and sunk and their science refounded sans the fake physics CO2 back radiation warming hoax.

Real climate science must be built on the bedrock of Nature’s iron clad Second Law of Thermodynamics and Planck’s Radiation Law.

http://www.historyscoper.com/thebiglieaboutco2.html

Reply to  TL Winslow
September 15, 2020 2:40 pm

TL Winslow for Leader!

This comment re the atmosphere heating the surface or itself should be engraved at the top of this blog every day. There is so much confusion and mis-information on here about radiative physics, but you have hit the nail squarely on the head.

Reply to  Michael Moon
September 16, 2020 8:43 am

WE,

“So the claim that the atmosphere cannot leave the surface warmer than without it, simply because the atmosphere is colder than the surface”

Aren’t we leaving out two factors? 1. the human body is a heat generator and the earth is not, and 2. heat loss from a non-generating body is a function of time.

A blanket laid on a rock may slow the heat loss but it won’t keep it from eventually reaching the same temperature as the surrounding environment over time. The amount of time allowed for cooling will therefore determine the final temperature of the rock.

If we apply this to the earth then it will be the heat loss between sunset and sunrise that will determine morning temperatures. If the time interval is too short then minimum morning temperatures will go up over time. This brings up another two questions. Are minimum temps going up and, does this affect maximum daytime temps?

My guess based on my study of heating/cooling degree-days around the globe that minimum temps are going up but maximum temps are either stagnant or going down.

Comments?

Reply to  Tim Gorman
September 16, 2020 6:47 pm

WE,

The earth is not warmed by the sun at night. The part of the earth opposite the sun is just like the rock I used. It is not, by itself, a heat generator.

If human life could be turned off and on it would be similar. At night when the body is turned off it would generate no heat. It would cool toward the temperature of the environment.

So I’ll ask again, what will the morning temperature be for the earth?

Since every location on earth has a temperature profile with a minimum temp and a maximum temp it means the radiation is higher at the maximum temp than at the minimum temp. If you determine the “average” radiation based on the “average” temperature then your radiation value is wrong, it is over-weighted toward the maximum temp of the profile.

In other words the integral of (c)(T^^4) during night hours is less than (c)(T^^4) over daytime hours. If you are going to realistically do the physics in a model then it would seem that this needs to be recognized. Just taking “averages” hides a lot of needed detail.

Reply to  Tim Gorman
September 17, 2020 8:40 am

“If we first average gridcell radiation”

And where did this data come from? Is it also an average? Or is it just a snapshot in time?

Ron
Reply to  Willis Eschenbach
September 15, 2020 6:52 pm

The blanket analogy is very wrong since it is not radiation it is convection that is inhibited by a blanket.

So far nobody could explain to me how a radiative process (absorption/emission) can be slowed down at all since it happens at speed of light. It has to work through heat capacity/latency which is not included in the common radiative theory of CO2 mediated greenhouse effect.

Loydo
Reply to  Ron
September 15, 2020 8:02 pm

No, its a perfectly good analagy Ron, because everything radiates heat, even cold blankets, but especially ones that are warm because they are close to something even warmer like skin. End result is skin doesn’t lose as much heat – no heat is magically formed – just less lost. Imagine throwing off the blanket and viewing an IR image of it – there’d be a body print of heat on it. Come to think of it how do you think IR imaging works if its not detecing radiation?

Reply to  Ron
September 15, 2020 9:08 pm

Not to mention that a blanket being a solid can’t rise and cool off as it warms. To my mind, it’s a crap analogy even though there may be similarities.

Ron
Reply to  Ron
September 16, 2020 7:16 am

@Loydo
“because everything radiates heat”

Yes, but it does so at speed of light. What a blanket does it inhibits the convection of warmer air from you and changes the heat gradient in your closer proximity. That is why it takes time until you get warm after you put on a jacket or cover with a blanket. You have to warm the air between the blanket and yourself first to reach a new equilibrium of heat exchange.

That is not at all true for the atmosphere. The atmosphere stores heat but all of the atmosphere and not just CO2. It is minuscule in that regard because of its ppm. Convection is not inhibited.

The heat capacity of air is also a function of pressure:

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/air-specific-heat-capacity-d_705.html

“Come to think of it how do you think IR imaging works if its not detecing radiation?”

Radiation is only a minor part of heat transfer from one object to another as long as you are not in a vacuum. You can detect it but that doesn’t mean it’s significant.

Ron
Reply to  Ron
September 16, 2020 7:18 am

So if anything is like a blanket then it is the atmosphere for the surface but not CO2 for the atmosphere.

Reply to  Ron
September 16, 2020 9:48 am

I’m not sure the term “slows heat loss” is correct. If your body is at a certain temperature, it radiates energy at a specific rate. Putting a blanket over you will not change that unless it changes your temperature. Another factor is conduction. The air surrounding your body will be heated by conduction. The air will then heat the blanket, again through conduction. This will continue until the temperatures of the blanket and yourself stabilize. Air heated by a cold blanket will not heat your body, so conducted heat only flows one way.

The problem with a cold object “heating” a hot one by radiation is somewhat different. If a unit of radiated energy is received by the hot body and it raises the hot bodies temperature even further and it will begin to radiate energy at the new temperature as T**4. I don’t know the exact time it takes to re-radiate the absorbed energy from the cold body, but I suspect it will look like a reflection. In all my thermo classes we never had to set up two gradients, one going from hot to cold and another going from cold to hot. It was always hot to cold.

Here is an article about using an infrared temperature meter and warning about wind aided convection. If radiation was the only effect happening here, there would be no possible way for air currents to affect the reading. Using wind on the device being measured shows that conduction of heat can certainly be an issue.

Reply to  Willis Eschenbach
September 16, 2020 4:45 pm

Slowing heat loss is not warming. “Warming” is not the same thing as “insulating.” Warming means that energy is gained by the object being warmed. If this object merely is cooling slower, it is not being warmed.

Is this what all the fuss is about? Wow…

Ron
Reply to  Michael Moon
September 16, 2020 8:04 pm

The problem there is that if you look only at radiation you cannot significantly slowdown anything cause it happens at speed of light. That’s not sufficient at all to have an impact even if the radiation travels more than one time back and forth.

steveta_uk
Reply to  TL Winslow
September 16, 2020 2:09 am

“An atmosphere can’t heat the surface with its own heat by any means, but only cool it”

Right now, in the UK, temperatures are many degrees higher than normal for mid September. This is entirely due to southerly winds. They are considerably warmer than the normal westerlies. They are quite clearly making the surface warmer than it would otherwise be.

Are you one of those “weather deniers”?

Wolf at the door
September 15, 2020 1:00 pm

The problem is that the ” mantra ” of the warmists-” CO2 is a greenhouse gas .Add more and more of it to the atmosphere and it’s obvious that the planet will heat up “- is easy to follow ,especially for the non – scientific public and the ever hungry for sensationalism MSM.Add to this the fact that the understanding of the rebuttal requires a certain amount of scientific know-how and it’s relatively easy for the charlatans(can’t call them scientists) to shout “Fire”- and be believed.I don’t think it’s fair to damn Judith Curry and John Christy with faint
praise- they call it as they see it ,Christy especially is very sceptical. Worse even than Mann,Schmidt and Wanted are those who know the truth and remain silent.

Wolf at the door
September 15, 2020 1:50 pm

Sorry typo Mann,Schmidt and Santer

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