Or maybe not so funny. We still have that video that has been banned on Facebook, YouTube, CNN, BBC, and Twitter. It seems that big tech doesn’t like it when people think for themselves and go off the rails of the official narrative.
They’ve apparently never heard of the The Streisand Effect.
Josh sums it up:
Do watch if you have not already – the video is here.
Meanwhile…this study happened.
The second poster is perfect.
For the silenced medical evidence, 74% of 62 papers show EARLY use of hydroxychloroquine (especially with Zinc and azithromycin) show major benefit. See C19Study.com
Especially within 2 days!
Dr Zelenko had 84% lower hospitalization and 80% lower deaths per TheZelenkoProtocol.com
Dr Stella said she successfully treated 350 with no deaths. Now writing a paper. Etc.
Mr. Hagen, please note “physicians worldwide for COVID. Survey of 6,150 physicians.” is not a study of the efficacy of HCQ.
(You are banned once again, you can’t help yourself, you need to grow up and get a life!) SUNMOD
+1
Thank you, SUNMOD!
Mr. Hagen, please note: “Monkey study which reports no effect of HC Q or HC Q+AZ.” does not show efficacy in humans.
Henry Pool The Sermo Covid19 Barometer -Survey documents what 6200 physicians are actually using to treat Covid-19. e.g.
Just fyi, Henry Pool is using specious statements. Next will be loaded questions like “when did you stop beating your kids”. Then move on to simple lies followed by outright lies followed by demands for opponents to be arrested followed by BLM…
‘Tis why they’re called “progressives”.
(Henry Pool is BANNED) SUNMOD
Note the lack of zinc in that list.
It is the zinc that is the important item in the list. Intracellular zinc needs to be raised and then RNA viruses cannot replicate by hijacking the cellular RNA transcription process. This is why all so called studies deliberately omit zinc.
The medical community cannot be trusted to carry out a formal trial as they are deliberately varying the successful regimen and dosages and the best time to use the regimen. The regimen that is successful when used prophylactically through to when symptoms appear is:
> HCQ as an ionophore that also reduces inflammation;
> zinc that inhibits viral replication;
> azithromycin antibiotic that prevents opportunist infection and also has some antiviral effect.
“they are deliberately varying the successful regimen and dosages”
Those studies with the highest, absurd doses (>>1 g) are what I call conspiration to murder directly and indirectly.
After nearly 5 months of virus circulation in France, among HUMANS, the greatly overrated INSERM publishes a trial on … monkeys?
Oh My God
Now 65 publications listed at C19Study.com.
75% show effectiveness of early use of hydroxychloroquine.
See especially the 2nd graph.
Sermo.com surveyed 6200 physicians:
Largest Statistically Significant Study by 6,200 Multi-Country Physicians on COVID-19 Uncovers Treatment Patterns and Puts Pandemic in Context
Here are some links I’ve collected on the use of HCQ / hydroxychloroquine:
https://c19study.com :
a treatment which is x% effective could have saved:
10% effective could have saved 59,288 lives.
25% effective could have saved 148,473 lives.
50% effective could have saved 296,496 lives.
Graphic from the above: “Country CFR (Case Fatality Rate) by HCQ Usage”:
Another graphic: “Case Fatality Rate by Country”:
——————
Comment by icisil July 18, 2020 at 3:03 am
An interesting compilation of HCQ studies that are overwhelmingly positive
https://twitter.com/gummibear737/status/1283840177497088001
——————
Comment by By Kai Kupferschmidt Jun. 9, 2020 , 5:15 PM Science Mag (AAAS)
“There is one exception. Many researchers agree that a good case can be made for continuing to test whether hydroxychloroquine can prevent infection if given to people just in case they get exposed to the virus, for instance on the job at a hospital—a strategy called pre-exposure prophylaxis (PrEP). “You have a much better chance of preventing something with a weak drug than you have of curing a fully established infection,” says White, who runs one of the largest PrEP trials. He notes that doxycycline, an antibiotic, has long been used in malaria prophylaxis. “We would never treat anybody with it, it’s too weak. But it’s a very good prophylactic.””
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/three-big-studies-dim-hopes-hydroxychloroquine-can-treat-or-prevent-covid-19
The above is a supposedly fair, gold-standard (Minneapolis) study that found no benefit in HCQ treatment. But, if it’s 10% effective as a prophylactic, it could save tens of thousands of lives.
In the optimistic hope of setting straight some of the oh-so-typical elitist snark of our progressive board posters regarding Dr. Dr. Immanuel.
I groaned a little when I heard about her beliefs – if only because I knew what the press harpies would do with it, but I’m willing to see what she’s got.
See, I’m from Portland – that means you grow up learning to accept a wide range of wild beliefs – half the women I’ve dated since before the turn of the Millennium were at least Wiccan , if not outright witches – and I mean casting-spells-witchcraft – and some of them were pretty damn smart.
One woman was a personal director for a major international company – she told me the story of how when she and her husband broke up, she said she cast a spell to make their house sell, but forgot to take it off after it did – and she explained that you’re not supposed to do that because a spell is like a living thing that will start acting on its own – and therefore her house burned down. Her ex-husband apparently chided her – you didn’t take the spell off, did you?
Another young woman – valedictorian her class – told me “I can see where you came from a monkey, but I’M a divine creation of God’.
I would easily place either one of these women’s IQ at 145-plus, and if either of them had been doctors instead of the field in which they worked, I would say, yes, I would take their medical advice – hell, I might even let them cast a spell.
I’ll tell you this, too – once you’ve had a voodoo doll with a lock of your damn hair in it passed around town, you’ll start being a little more respectful of people’s theological beliefs.
I’d also remind you that this is a big sub-culture in the Earthy community – so perhaps, you should be a littler more careful about the witches you burn.
Snider
Is that a true comment or are you
Just trying to be funny?
All true. Including the voodoo doll.
Thanks Joel, that’s funny, even if it’s true. Of course if true, one better tread carefully breaking up w/them…..
The link does not work now. 3;16 mt 7/30/2020
3119 patients treated successfully with Hydroxychloroquine & Azithromycin
(9 times more than the 350 Dr. Stella Immanuel successfully treated)
What would really be funny, is seeing Larry Page and Sergey Brin, Mark Zukerberg and Jack Dorsey all in orange jump suits, shackled and being led in front of the TV camera on their perp walk to prison. Because this is what should be happening to these giant monopolistic tech firms that are now limiting free speech on their platforms. Because they are now effective Utilities, they are now in breach of criminal behaviour and will be charged and broken up. Good riddance to these jerks and the way the operate their companies. The proof is in the pudding.
The modern day equivalent of book burning . Big Tech is de-platforming knowledge, history & debate. The swamp is prosecuting and destroying those who question the dominant narrative
You can buy Hitler’s Mein Kampf on Amazon.
You can buy Marx’s Das Kapital on Amazon.
But you cannot listen to a group of Doctors speaking of their experiences with Corona Virus.
You are unable to be lectured by a University Professor, Peter Ridd, who questions the narrative that the Great Barrier Reef is dying.
Face the Facts!
You are too stupid and will make the wrong decision if you are aware of alternative arguments.
“You are unable to be lectured by a University Professor, Peter Ridd, who questions the narrative that the Great Barrier Reef is dying.”
That is because he has been sacked by James Cook Uni for speaking out. Worse than that; he took them to court, was awarded damages but now the verdict has been overturned 2-1 in the Federal Court. He has launched a GoFundMe appeal for money to appeal to the High Court.
If you want to support him, Search for “Peter Ridd go fund me” and get your credit card out, please.
And Ridd is the genuine article, a tradesman with a passion in his craft and possessing the patience and desire to pass that knowledge on.
Who would sack a person like Peter Ridd?
Who would sack Peter Ridd? People who don’t give a fig about science, but who are very ambitious.
This link to Junk Science at James Cook University explains a few things:
https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/doomed-planet/2020/02/the-tip-of-a-jcus-junk-science-iceberg/
Captain James Cook is probably spinning in his grave.
Who would sack Peter Ridd? The same people who led Lavoisier to the guillotine.
Not only that, at the instant you
1) appear in front of a congressional committee
2) receive a letter from a representative
…
you are NOT just a “Christian bakery like corp” making cakes for everybody and marriage cake for “normal” marriages. You are a major actor and part of the System (even if unwillingly).
Facebook now an effective Utility??
…
LMAO, no, it’s no where near being that.
That’s what the HouseJudiciary Committee on Big Tech was saying that today, and not only that, but they are engaged in Anti-Trust activities.
Even Wikipedia has a page called Social Media as a Public Utility. When it dominates, and crushes its competition, it becomes an Anti-Trust Utility. This is why changes is coming to the way big tech operates. Europe has been hitting some them of them hard over the years too, including Microsoft and Google as probably everyone recalls. There is no doubt now that the definition of Utility now exceeds the usual definition of electricity, water, sewer and gas. Cable TV and Internet are utilities, so why not social media like Facebook, Google and Twitter? They have a near monopoly and are now crushing free speech on their platforms that the majority of people access. Amazon is crushing Main Street, and also engaging in nefarious activities how they do business. So why isn’t that a utility, when they now have dominant market share?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_media_as_a_public_utility#:~:text=Social%20media%20as%20a%20public%20utility%20is%20a%20theory%20postulating,phone%20utilities%20are%20typically%20government
Anti monopoly laws are fundamentally inappropriate here. They may help, just like solving a problem with classical mechanics may appear to work, but it’s the wrong analysis, wrong viewpoint, wrong frame of reference.
The laws were written against people trying to control market to earn as much as possible. They weren’t designed against collusion of actors trying to impose a suicidal “ideology” (or ideals-ogy? as failed presidential candidate Royal might say) on the People.
Monopolies lead to enrichment but going woke in general does not. It’s something much more nefarious.
The frame of reference must include interference in politics and free speech: monopoly not on selling gadgets, but on “moderation” of public forums.
Anti monopolies laws were not used, AFAIK, against communists.
President Trump LOST against White Knights of Free Speech (or something like that). His twitter is a public square (for US citizens). Which immediately means Twitter is too. And so is Facebook if used for political speech by elected officials.
I’m guessing that Hank is working with his own definitions again.
Not her seems like sensible advice. Dr. Immanuel has publicly stated that infertility is caused by
people have dream sex with demons and that alien DNA is being used for medical treatment. Why
would anyone think she has credibility when it comes to COVID-19?
Don’t get her going on the reasons for endometriosis and ovarian cysts either. Those demons are busy buggers
Nice! Let’s get Steve on that list of Sloppy Thinkers too! Way to go Steve! Give him a hand folks!
Your logical fallacy is:
The Genetic Fallacy: This fallacy avoids the argument by shifting focus onto something’s or someone’s origins. It’s similar to an ad hominem fallacy in that it leverages existing negative perceptions to make someone’s argument look bad, without actually presenting a case for why the argument itself lacks merit.
@Syncomputing: Can’t see anything in what Steve says that refers to her origins or genetics. Or what Izaak says. Or Carguy Pete.
Your logical fallacy is:
Just making stuff up.
Hey now, “kudos” to Adrian for TRYING to bring something of value to the table.
But you failed.
You failed at understanding the nature of the Genetic fallacy. You didn’t read the link defining it and/or you don’t understand how words mean things in different contexts.
Maybe I can help.
In this context, “Genetic” doesn’t have ANYTHING to do with an INDIVIDUAL’S origins or DNA, but rather, it’s called the “Genetic Fallacy” because:
“You judged something as either good or bad on the basis of where it comes from, or from whom it came.”
Do you see now?
Again, good show for trying, but you’re not quite there yet.
Let me know if I can help further.
We get it, Adrian, you don’t like women who are smarter, more successful and a different color than you, no need to keep harping on it, sweety.
Sys,
Wow. It is just amazing how little people actually know about argumentative fallacies. Thanks for pointing out the one being used here.
If I tell you that I believe the earth is flat and that it orbits the sun does that make the second assertion wrong because the first assertion is incorrect?
That’s the argument being used by the medical establishment and the MSM against the good doctor today. I would expect this from the education journalists receive today. But I am always amazed that medical doctors, presumably well educated, don’t have any grasp of logical arguments.
No, he is absolutely correct.
If your doctor prescribed an exorcism to remove your warts, would you follow this advice?
Alright! A weigh-in from Henry, no doubt wading still in his Pool of Propaganda!
Sadly (but not unsurprisingly), at first glance, I’m none too impressed with this effort, Henry. Regardless, I’m in a mood to waste time on addlepates, so let’s get started shall we?
I assume by this logic you mean to equate treatment by Hydroxychloroquine to exorcisms, is that right Henry?
Waiting with bated breath for your undoubtedly phrenic response.
The only way you would is if a double blind study was done 😉
“is that right Henry?” …. No.
.
I asked you “If your doctor prescribed an exorcism to remove your warts, would you follow this advice?” What is your answer?
Well good grief Henry, you really DO belong in the set of all Genetically Deficient don’t you?
What an absolutely intellectually vacuous thing to ask . . .
I mean, I don’t believe an exorcism is going to cure my warts. What I do is sandpaper them and then apply Henry Pool’s Logical Snake Oil in lieu of freezing (so far I’m extremely disappointed with the results), so what do you THINK my answer is going to be that rhetorical question?
Are you an intellectual time waster by nature or did you just start classes in November of 2016? Because if it’s the latter you’re doing VERY well I must say.
Regardless, did you ask that question to someone who believes in exorcism by chance?
Has she done anything like that?
Whatever her personal/religious beliefs may be, she practices medicine with laws, rules, and ethics established by governing bodies within the US.
You said, “I mean, I don’t believe an exorcism is going to cure my warts” which I believe means that you would not follow this recommended cure for warts. Good to see you have a touch of rationality.
.
Now tell us what Dr. Immanuel would prescribe for endometriosis?
Pain medication, hormone therapy, I don’t have a clue.
Do you?
Henry? I’ve answered you Henry? Hello?
What now?
I was just getting warmed up.
oddly enough there is evidence that many illnesses are psychosomatic
therefore a psychic ritual might help?
The sad thing is that Hank actually believes his adolescent taunt is relevant to the discussion.
Charles Nelson, endometriosis is not psychosomatic.
.
syscomputing, you are half correct regarding medications, surgery is sometimes indicted. However, note that none of the recommended treatments involve direct intervention into the patient’s sleeping.
Okay. And your point is?
People from different cultures have different ways of dealing with physical problems. For example in Western Christian cultures, people use prayer, anointing with oil, holy water, visiting sites where miraculous cures are said to occur, etc.
The reason double blind studies are done is to rule out the suggestive power of mind over matter. To assert that the mind has little to no power over one’s body is … well … _____ (fill in the blank here to discover your own belief system.)
If your doctor believed that the earth was created by a bearded man sitting on a cloud, would you take his advice?
>If your doctor prescribed an exorcism to remove your warts, would you follow this advice?
In this case, yes.
There are studies showing that painting a wart with colored water and telling the patient it will go away will work. There are studies showing that putting the wart under a large an impressive machine that shines a low level colored light on the wart and telling the patient that the wart will go away will work.
I have every expectation that performing an exorcism and telling the patient the wart will go away will work.
@Henry Pool
Actually that happens all the time in current medical practice although they don’t use the same words. It is the reason for ‘double blind’ trials. It is called the placebo effect.
There is no psychological difference between putting on a white coat and giving blue sugar pills to a patient and them recovering – than putting on regalia and doing an excorcism and them recovering. The placebo effect can be extremely powerful.
There will be some patients receiving the placebo in double blind trials that may improve just because they received medical treatment in a hospital from white coated doctors and pills to swallow.
More importantly, if someone worships the great spaghetti monster on weekends, but during the week is a talented physician with a 100% record on curing a particular disease. Why would you avoid that doctor? Should atheists only to to atheist doctors?
Why wouldn’t I try an exorcism? I’d have nothing to lose.
When my dad was dying from an incurable progressive disease, he tried everything he could find including faith healers. At least they didn’t have the serious side effects that some of the experimental drugs his doctors tried.
“If your doctor prescribed an exorcism to remove your warts, would you follow this advice?”
Depends what symptoms I had along with the warts.
“If your doctor believed that the earth was created by a bearded man sitting on a cloud, would you take his advice?”
Sure, there are a lot of doctors who have very little understanding of religion and theology.
That was a needed and well stated explanation of ‘Focuse Shifting‘, the best I’ve read to date. Whenever the undesirable narratives are brought out into the light, the cancelers employ their predictable tactics of attacking the messenger and shifting the focus to personal attacks and dehumanization. It’s all so Alinskyesque. These are the morally bankrupt walking dead.
That was a needed and well stated explanation of ‘Focuse Shifting‘, the best I’ve read to date. Whenever the undesirable narratives are brought out into the light, the cancelers employ their predictable tactics of attacking the messenger and shifting the focus to personal attacks and dehumanization. It’s all so Alinskyesque. These are the morally bankrupt walking dead.
Lordy! She be one crazy black woman … right? How racist is that?
And if she wears a RED MAGA hat … she’d get shot in the head … or does that just happen in “tolerant” Minneapolis?
Milwaukee WI
You people just can’t stay away from the ad hominems, can you? You know it’s the resort of liars and idiots don’t you? So, which one are you?
They’ve proven they can’t argue science or data, so ad hominems are all they have left.
What do you suggest someone do to prevent dreaming of sex with demons?
Actual sex with a demon, or demons, will likely cure you of your subconscious curiosity.
Regular (timely) sex will likely cure you of your subconscious need to dream of sex.
Good luck.
Mr. Pool: I suggest one open and run a medical clinic in a poor neighborhood, actually caring for the very people forgotten by leftists like you. Why don’t you try walking a few steps in her shoes… nah, ur not worth it.
Sheila told me that the lizards running the government will not permit me to practice medicine
Poor Hank, once he digs himself a hole, he just can’t help digging it deeper.
Another constant with Hank, the further behind he gets, the more illogical obfuscations he starts tossing out.
It’s almost as if he doesn’t realize we aren’t laughing with him.
Poor MarkW, has nothing, never had anything, and looks like he never will have anything in the future.
(Poor fella who has been banned many times over the years, hopefully my suggestion in how to finally stop you permanently will work, grow up Henry Pool!) SUNMOD
“What do you suggest someone do to prevent dreaming of sex with demons?”
Generally, dreaming of sex with someone is seen not so much as a desire to actually have sex with that person, but as wanting to have a quality they possess.
To see demons in your dream indicates that you may be experiencing or inflicting fear, emotional distress or physical abuse in your waking life. Demons are also symbolic of ignorance, negative habits, and of your shadow self. (dreammoods.com)
So, to prevent dreaming of sex with demons if you are having such dreams, you likely have to stop desiring to inflict distress or abuse on others or overcome a masochistic-like desire to have more pain in your life.
Either way, there are serious issues you need to sort out in your life.
I hope this information will motivate you to get the help you need.
@Syncomputing:
I perfectly understand what “Genetic Fallacy” means – but thanks for assuming that I don’t. So Zero kudos for that.
Here’s where you went wrong –
False Cause & False Attribution Fallacy
Bandwagon Fallacy
Argumentum ad Populum Fallacy
Irrelevant Conclusion Fallacy
So no, you can be of no further help.
You’re welcome.
No I didn’t assume anything. I went with the evidence. Here’s what you said:
“@Syncomputing: Can’t see anything in what Steve says that refers to her origins or genetics. Or what Izaak says. Or Carguy Pete.”
Unless you were lying, that thar English sentence above means you perfectly did NOT understand the Genetic Fallacy. I think everyone knows this. Probably best to drop that subject before you make yourself look any more like one making really obvious, embarrassing excuses for his Stupid.
Hey I’m just trying to help. I can’t help you being lenient with you. You NEED to understand where you went wrong. Sometimes that hurts, but it’s good for you. IF you listen.
YOU are welcome.
So after the above you listed a bunch of logical fallacies but didn’t cite examples of where I was guilty of them?
Odd . . . you’re not making much sense wouldn’t you agree?
I’m pretty sure I know what you mean (and that’s POTENTIALLY going to be a teachable moment for you, if you listen) but so I don’t “assume,” why don’t cite examples for all us where you think I’ve committed the logical atrocities?
Eagerly awaiting your reply.
You proved you don’t so Syn schooled your ignorant a$$.
Hello Adrian?
Here’s what you said earlier:
“Here’s where you went wrong –
False Cause & False Attribution Fallacy
Bandwagon Fallacy
Argumentum ad Populum Fallacy
Irrelevant Conclusion Fallacy”
Still waiting for you point out to me where I “went wrong” as per the above. I don’t want to be wrong Adrian. I need YOUR help to show me the way.
You there? I’m waiting.
I know right Izaak? Similarly, what’s the deal with those idiots who REALLY believe the sky is blue after hearing Dr. Immanuel say so? Right? Because Dr. Immanuel said it and thus it just COULDN’T be true?
Your logical fallacy is:
The Genetic Fallacy: This fallacy avoids the argument by shifting focus onto something’s or someone’s origins. It’s similar to an ad hominem fallacy in that it leverages existing negative perceptions to make someone’s argument look bad, without actually presenting a case for why the argument itself lacks merit.
https://tinyurl.com/bvfmw4k
Beautifully rendered textbook example of sloppy thinking there budrow!
Sycomputing,
I am not a doctor and have no medical expertise. I do know however that there are a lot of
peer review studies showing that the treatment Dr. Immanuel proposes doesn’t work and even
some that shows it increases the fatality rate of COVID-19. So I have to decide which set of
doctors I would trust and looking at their background and their beliefs on other topics is a
reasonable way to do that. Dr. Immanuel has a range of false beliefs about medical topics which makes me less likely to trust her on other topics.
Well, no Izaak, looking at beliefs on other topics is NOT a reasonable way to judge anyone’s beliefs on any other topic. The only reasonable way to believe anyone on anything is based upon the evidence they have to offer. Under your assumptions, if Dr. Immanuel claimed the sky is blue, you would necessarily have to disagree with her.
That’s just dumb, and it’s a logical fallacy, which places you in the realm of UNREASONABLE individuals if you believe in such nonsense. It makes you a sloppy thinker when you think irrationally. Part of thinking irrationally is thinking on the basis of logical fallacies.
I mean, how much MORE evidence do you need than the agreed upon consensus science of propositional logic itself?
https://tinyurl.com/bvfmw4k
You ARE a proponent of consensus based science aren’t you?
Sycomputing,
Dr. Immanuel’s beliefs about medicine are precisely what is at issue here. She has made
claims about the effectiveness of HCQ without presenting any evidence. I can do the same
but why would anybody listen to what I said unless I could present myself as a credible
doctor. There are plenty of people who have presented evidence saying that HCQ does not work and is actually harmful. Should I ignore them or listen to them? How do you suggest I decide which doctors are worth listening too?
No, they are NOT, as I’ve already sufficiently proved. You’ve subtly moved the goalposts, but I SEE you Izaak. You aren’t going to get up early enough in the morning to fool the ilks of me. Maybe after you listen and learn from the Master you’ll have that opportunity as the Student, but not until then.
So there – :-p
NOW, you’ve finally hit the nail on the head. As far as I know, you’re absolutely correct on this point. And this is all that matters. Maybe there’s hope for you after all.
Now we’ll see if she can produce reproducible evidence to back up her claims. She, along with the other doctors standing with her, need to do this. If they can’t, well that’s a problem. I neither believe nor disbelieve them until they succeed or fail in that particular task.
But this has nothing whatsoever to do with her personal spiritual beliefs or theirs.
You’ll think better if you take this method to heart and consistently use it.
re: “I do know however that there are a lot of peer review studies showing that the treatment Dr. Immanuel proposes doesn’t work”
Cop out: Assertion w/o cite (Failure to post cite.) Appeal to authority.
See C19study.com for refutation.
As usual, he completely ignores the problems that have been found with the studies that reach the proper conclusion.
He also totally ignores any study that reaches any other conclusion.
Like most alarmists, Izaak only reads studies that agree with what he is told to believe.
All the other studies were done by deniers, therefore aren’t science and must be ignored, if not burned on the spot.
Isaak Walton – You need to look a bit more carefully into the “lot of
peer review studies showing that the treatment Dr. Immanuel proposes doesn’t work and even some that shows it increases the fatality rate of COVID-19”. The evidence in favour of HCQ is for early treatment, preferably with zinc. All of the studies that claimed HCG doesn’t work were in hospital patients who were therefore already in a later stage of the virus. The Lancet study was even worse.
This comes up all the time – one example of many: “India could be taking a relook at the use of the anti-malarial drug hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) for treatment of Covid-19 after the World Health Organisation (WHO) on Saturday announced that it had discontinued HCQ clinical trials because it did not reduce mortality in hospitalized patients, based on the results of interim trials.” https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other/centre-may-review-hcq-use-for-covid/ar-BB16mAmp [my emphasis]
I am appalled at how the WHO has discouraged testing based on results of limited trials, and in some cases, eg. the Lancet study, obviously flawed trials.. How dare they risk lives by preventing something being tested? It isn’t as if testing one thing prevents another being tested. The world should be cnducting every test it can think of.
During my Doctoral pursuit I could only use peer-reviewed studies for references. What one will find is cases where Dr. Ying posits this, while Dr. Yang discovers that, which are contradictory.
I’ve taken hydroxychloroquine every time I deployed with the military to war zones; sometimes for up to a year. The largest concern with the drug was liver damage due to taking too much. A prescribed dosage is 100mg per day; though there are weekly doses of 500mg.
All drugs have side-effects and some cause deaths in certain cases. That this excludes empirical evidence of those medical professionals in the field that attest to its effectiveness in early stages is imprudent and irresponsible in the vilest manner.
“I do know however that there are a lot of
peer review studies showing that the treatment Dr. Immanuel proposes doesn’t work and even some that shows it increases the fatality rate of COVID-19.”
This is factually incorrect. The treatment Dr Immanuel uses was not use that “lot of peer review (sic) studies”. They all omitted the active ingredient zinc, which is admitted to red blood corpuscles by the HCQ acting as an ionophore. The more recent studies of the treatment she is using shows it reduces the mortality by 50% even with the recommended vitamin D3 supplement. It is about twice as effective as Remdesivir. Gilead is worried about that. Why spend $3000 for half the effect of $12?
I suggest MedCram videos starting at #46+47.
Wait just one second syscomputing! I’m not so sure about this genetic fallacy stuff. If you were right about this, then it would follow that we could not be justified in assuming that everything that Adrian, griff, Henry, Izaak, and Loydo have to say must be wrong. But hundreds of comments without a single sane one from that group, seems to have already proven that rule of thumb to be correct. Seems like “settled science” to me.
I think you got some ‘splainin to do
Would anybody listen to a commentator that post such misleading and false articles about the clean waters act on his website? I don’t think so.
Alright! Here’s Sloppy Thinker #3, Pete the Carguy!
Your logical fallacy is:
The Genetic Fallacy: This fallacy avoids the argument by shifting focus onto something’s or someone’s origins. It’s similar to an ad hominem fallacy in that it leverages existing negative perceptions to make someone’s argument look bad, without actually presenting a case for why the argument itself lacks merit.
Gratz Pete!
How many more morons are we going to have to add to this list before I get MOD-ified for b**ch-slapping Stupid?
“Would anybody listen…………….?” There is the rub.
Certainly nobody should be prevented from listening. This doctor’s opinions should not be banned – so that we cannot get to hear them.
I love people who passionately fight and speak out for what they believe.
Please demonstrate:
A) that said articles are false and misleading
B) that said articles are relevant to this discussion
@Izaak link please.
Why is all the criticism of this group focused on just her? There’s several more doctors in this group, she’s not even they organizer? I’ll tell you why, because she is the easiest to attack and so people like you pretend she’s not one of many.
Why would I think that a geophysicist who believes the earth is 5,000 years old has credibility? Because when he says “drill here and you’ll hit oil” we drill and hit oil. That’s why. She says she cured 350 of 350 patients. Why is there not one critic like you asking if that’s true or not? I’ll tell you why, because if it is true, then she could believe in unicorns for all I care, she has a cure and that’s the only question.
David, I’m in an Internet dialogue with a guy who thinks the science related to the age of the earth and universe is all wrong. I told him that petroleum geologists don’t buy that.
Do you have a reference to some successful petroleum geologist who really thinks the earth is less than 10,000 years old, or is that hypothetical?
Ask him if he’s afraid if radiation. If he’s afraid of radiation, then he must accept the science behind radioactive decay … which is exactly the same science behind uranium/lead isotope dating of rock.
Except that radiodating requires two huge assumptions, that you know the initial state and that the rate has remained constant. Research by the RATE group has shown that modest temperature and pressure can reduce the half-life of a radioisotope by as much as 12 orders of magnitude. Which would be a wonderful way of dealing with high-level radioactivective waste after processing to remove it from the spent fuel.
I’ve seen some incredibly stupid statements before, but Kemaris here is so far off the reservation that we are going to have to retire the award in his honor.
If this absurd claim of yours had any basis in reality, then there would be no nuclear waste “problem”, All we would have to do is heat the waste up by a few degrees, and all the radiation from the sample would be gone in minutes.
Not to mention the problem of keeping any nuclear reactor from going critical as soon as it started to heat up.
http://www.creation.com
Couldn’t say if they include a petroleum geologist in their number, but they do include PhDs in geology, astrophysics, biology, just about any field of science you care to name. Note that modern geology was founded by a French atheist at the beginning of the 19th century explicitly to free science from the chains of Moses by denying a global flood.
Could you provide a link to the “Research by the RATE group has shown that modest temperature and pressure can reduce the half-life of a radioisotope by as much as 12 orders of magnitude” Kemaris? I couldn’t find it with a websearch.
Even if true, so what?
Why would you even care? The notion that the world is less than 10,000 years old is ridiculous and discredited by every single geologic theory and hypothesis today. The only way you could argue that it is 10,000 years old would be to claim that it was created exactly to look like the Earth was billions of years old, but that would be 100% belief which should not be confused with science.
Hi Ralph,
I was a professor of mine in university and that was decades ago. Not sure if he is even still alive. But yes he consulted to oil industry. Plus he taught the courses in how to date fossils etc that were millions of years old. But was religious and believed the earth was only a few thousand years old. So one day I asked him how he reconciled those two things. I’m paraphrasing, but the answer was interesting.
He picked up some fossilized sea creature from his desk and said it was x million years old and he wanted to understand what it was that god had created and how it fit into the world, so he became a geophysicist. Then he said, if he had wanted to understand WHY, 5000 years ago, god created a fossilized sea creature that was x million years old, he would have become a priest.
“Why is all the criticism of this group focused on just her? There’s several more doctors in this group, she’s not even the organizer? I’ll tell you why, because she is the easiest to attack”
You are correct.
Here’s the way it went: Reporters saw this video and did opposition research (looking for dirt) on all the participants, and found something about her that they thought they could use to discredit the whole bunch of them. It’s classic “Attack the Messenger” stuff.
The woman who organized this news conference (not the Nigerian woman being criticized) and owns the website, said that her website provider took her website down right out of the blue with no notification to her. She said she will have the website back up as soon as they get another provider.
The anti-HCQ forces found a weak spot and they seek to exploit it. Of course, that doesn’t change the fact that all these doctors are reporting very good results using HCQ. Their diversion doesn’t change that at all.
Quite so. Unmentioned (in any MSM account, and here too) is the organizer of the conference. Dr. Simone Gold – Doctor of Medicine, Juris Doctor, certified by the American Board of Emergency Medicine, worked in the US Surgeon General’s office. Not a “whack job.”
Incidentally, fired by the hospital (in the Soviet Socialist Republic of California) after doing so. She, and others who dared to blow the whistle on the scam and suffered the loss of their livelihoods as a consequence, have hired the “Covington Kids” attorney. Should be some good fireworks there…
(One must note that people willing to be martyred for speaking truth are few and far between – and those who have a deep seated belief in a “higher being” are disproportionately represented among those. )
Izaak, I bet you’re a compulsive mask debater.
https://twitter.com/M2Madness/status/1288253717326770177
Groan. After about the 15th repetition of “mask debate” I finally got it. A bit slow today I am. LOL.
The guy at the end who smirked got it.
I was, but I went blind.
How does her beliefs change the facts of her success treating patients with HCQ?
I am certain the doctor is foreign-born. In these times, you cannot criticize a person from different cultures for beliefs that we think are superstitious hookem.
And don’t get me started on you ridiculing a woman of color.
The only actual fake news seems to be that “Dr Immanuel has publicly stated that infertility is caused by
people have dream sex with demons and that alien DNA is being used for medical treatment”.
Where did she actually say that ?
With respect to HCQ some countries are less idiots (and criminal) than others :
http://m.koreabiomed.com/news/articleView.html?idxno=7428
South Korea, without any idiotic lockdown : 6 deaths / million.
Many other countries adopted the same treatment and had good results (among them, Portugal, Greece, Marocco, Algeria, Island, Turkey, Vietnam, China, Pakistan, etc.).
Compare them to the worst planetary COVID-19 desaster : The Genious Cuomo’s state of New-York : 1682 deaths / million.
Always the same fascist MSM behavior : destroy someone and suppress the message instead of trying to make any argument.
She says it in her sermons. The sermons from the Fire Power Ministries in Houston, Texas. Where she is the founder, and a pastor.
Is where she says it.
Ok great, now we have someone who’s actually heard her say it.
But as an example of critical thinking (see your exclamation of woe regarding the same below), I don’t believe you without evidence.
Prove it so I can believe you.
Go listen to her sermons. Read what she has written. Or do I have to spoon feed you? Prove it to yourself so you can’t dispute it. Otherwise, you’ll just carry on disputing the source or attribution.
Start here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJrJG9xymts
There’s plenty more. Enjoy.
No no Adrian, see, that’s NOT how it works in the grown ups world. The way it works is YOU prove your argument and I prove mine. We don’t prove EACH OTHER’S argument, that would be silly.
Don’t you think?
We’re not in the little boys intellectual sandbox anymore. This is the world’s MOST viewed website on climate change, politics, etc., thus you’re playing with pros now. Please make an effort to behave as such, or get out of where you don’t belong so you don’t waste the big boys time, okay?
Thanks!
Now, you go on and get along and look at that video, and then cite for me where exactly the lady says what YOU claim she says, or find some other evidence somewhere else for YOUR position.
Otherwise, no offense, but I don’t trust you. I say you’re just another kindergarten, boldfaced liar.
Do you dispute what Louis Farrakhan says in all his videos, or is just women of color you disparage?
Would you take advice from the Pope or other religious leader who also speak of ethereal deities with supposed control of all of nature?
They also.blame a devil for whatever they consider to be bad without any explanation for why their all-powerful ‘God’ did not prevent it.
OK, you believe that anyone who has beliefs that are different from yours is untrustworthy in everything.
How intolerant of you.
The Pope, and all Christians have explanations as to why God permits bad things to happen. Either you have never actually bothered to read what Christians have to say, or you just reject out of hand anything you choose not to believe.
there;s strange stuff out there in the real world – and while some treatments are superficially bonkers they have been proven to work.
a bit technical – but some pretty authoritative stuff on oddball therapies from a medical educator.
Corn Flakes and Spanish Flu …. who’d have thought?
I can tell you’ve never been to Nigeria 🙂
I don’t believe her, nor anyone else. So, I went and looked up to see if I deed Chloroquine was used in a study in 2005 against SARS. The verdict …. TRUE.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1232869/
So, some here seem to think that since she may have said one falsity, then you can’t believe anything she says. Does the opposite apply, that since she said at least one thing that was true, and in this case relevant to the discussion, can you now give a little credibility to the rest of what she said?
You should read the abstract before posting the link. Cell cultures are not living organisms.
..
“Chloroquine is effective in preventing the spread of SARS CoV in cell culture.”
..
I did read the Abstract. Pharmacological action in vitro is a pretty good sign of action in vivo unless there are pharmacokinetic issues, which there are not. More specifically, if it glycosylates the ACE2 receptor in vitro, it glycosylates the ACE2 in vivo. It is a chemical reaction. There could be some differences in the interaction, however, in the absence of a study addressing this interaction with SARS2 the evidence cannot be dismissed as the genetic coding of the spike protein in both is very similar. …. and due to the politicalization of the whole issue, the study is not likely to ever be done.
Gasoline put on a cell culture will destroy all of the virus in the cells…..and the cells too.
DR Deanster? You got to cut back on the multi syllable words, Henry don’t syllable too well. Keep it really simple, under 5 letters would be best, and type slowly.
Once again, when Hank finds himself behind, he goes juvenile.
Will you tell us to be more than a cell culture ?
😀
Looks like Hank is also unaware of how medical research is done.
I’ve lost track of the number of areas where Hank has taken the lead in demonstrating his ignorance.
Looks like MarkW has never heard of Thalidomide. Ever hear about phocomelia, dysmelia, amelia, and bone hypoplasticy?
As usual, Hank can’t debate the topic so he tries to change the subject.
There are enough other doctors who have the same results, so quit trolling.
How does that effect the results that she gets from using HCQ+Zn+ Azithromycin?
I have a REALLY simple solution to this issue. Instead of putting all your effort into debating whether she (and her claims) have any credibility, why not
1 go get the hospital records of the patients she has treated for covid19 and look at the actual results
2 too difficult? go visit the hospital and talk to the patients she is currently treating – the several a day she claims – and watch how they progress
3 still too difficult? Why not put an add in a local paper expressing an interest in talking to past patients the doctor treated for covid19 (you know some of 350 grateful people she claims to have treated) and ask them to get in touch for a chat – provide a contact number.
But then again, why let facts (and no I have no idea what the facts would indicate) get in the way of a fun episode of character assassination (sarc/). Then again how much would it cost to check and what would the payoff be if she was right. Just maybe even a remote chance she was right might outweigh the cost of checking. Remember nurse Elizabeth Kenny.
“REALLY simple solution”
Because of privacy concerns (and lack of newspaper readers reading ads), none of what you suggest is possible in the USA.
Otherwise, great ideas.
Mr. Hammer: What you say is what a curious person would do. Proof that our press is not curious.
As I asked just yesterday,
If you get a vaccine with antibodies of an other persons blood, is there alien DNA in the vaccine ?
😀
What is your understanding of alien ?
Stranger, outlander ? 😀
Izaak Walton
I think the important thing is that there were about a dozen other Doctors with her saying much the same thing about treatment for Covid 19.
But of course it’s usual for leftists like yo to dive ind immediately go for the smear without applying even a modicum of thought to what else was going on, who else was there, and what else they were saying.
How about you comment on the other Doctors who were there instead of regurgitating what you read on the Daily Beast rag.
“I think the important thing is that there were about a dozen other Doctors with her saying much the same thing about treatment for Covid 19.”
That is the most important thing. The Left wants to divert attention by focusing on the Nigerian woman’s private life and pretending all the other doctors didn’t exist.
HotScot,
If there were a dozen other doctors why was the poster which started this thread about Dr.
Immanuel? I am commenting about Dr. Immanuel because the poster was asking why we
shouldn’t listen to her.
So you did not listen to the entire event,
She was one speaker of many!
I did it is informative and worth the time.
Seems to me that when so much effort is put into demonizing the messenger, including what can only be described as total censorship by the media (both social and main stream), it has nothing to do with the validity of the message, but rather that the message goes against the “official” narrative. Someone –more likely many someones –can see a lot of dollars disappearing if such an inexpensive treatment goes main stream.
Izzac–take a real close look at all those studies you mention–not a single one of them followed the protocol of early treatment with HCQ, Plus Zinc, and in most cases an antibiotic. The studies you refer to were set up to fail. The very worst was the VA study that gave terminal cases massive overdoses, and then reported how deadly the HCQ was.
HotScot
To me the most important thing is the collusion of government, big tech, and big media to stop even the discussion of anything but a vaccine being the answer.
That along with state governments dictating what physicians trying to treat patients can use HCL for without having clear research to back such a ban.
Izaak Walton.
Dr Immanuel did not publicly state that infertility is caused by demons and that alien DNA is being used for medical treatment.
Please provide a link to your source. I am sure it does not exist.
My point is real doctors who care about their patient and life would never lie to push a malaria drug that has been used for 20 years. HCQ is not a new drug.
The Jewish doctor is bullet proof form political attack because is an orthodox Jew working in his own community. That why he had the courage to speak up. In some states, governors have threatened doctors with loss of their license to practice medicine if they speech up.
There is a 2005 paper published by the US Institute of science that states HCQ is an effective treatment for the coronal viruses which covid-19 is. The 2005 paper which noted HCQ is effective against coronal viruses that gave the Jewish doctor the idea of treating his patients with a HCQ cocktail.
This is a link to the interview of the Jewish doctor who used Zinc sulfate plus Hydroxychloroquine plus azithromycin to treat 700 covid patients, who were sick and showing symptoms, with only one death.
This Jewish doctor is how Trump found out about the HCQ cocktail.
https://techstartups.com/2020/04/03/updates-from-dr-vladimir-zelenko-now-treated-700-coronavirus-patients-with-99-9-success-rate-using-hydroxychloroquine-zinc-sulfate-and-z-pak-1-outpatient-died-after-not-following-protocol-exclusi/
“infertility is caused by people have dream sex with demons and that alien DNA is being used for medical treatment”
Well Isacc Newton practiced alchemy and occult studies so his works on gravity, optics and mathematics should be discarded??
She is being laughed at by people who will solemnly assure you that a man can become a woman and vice versa. There is much that is ‘irrational’ on both sides.
Cool comment bro.
Do you have anything on whether her claim that she has not lost a single Wuhan Virus patient, even though she has treated hundreds and many had serious underlying conditions? Or do you plan on sticking with snickering from the back bleachers?
Vaccines don’t often contain alien DNA?
Will reopenFL be mad if I steal this image?
“The study found about 20% of patients treated with a combination of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin died and 22% who were treated with azithromycin alone compared with the 26% of patients who died after not being treated with either medication. “
This is NOT a resounding success for HCQ treatment…the difference between 26 or 20 of 100 patients not recovering, in an ICU environment, is so minor that “more study“ is a valid recommendation.
And it points to Dr. Stella’s claim of no deaths in her 350 patients as being probable wishful thinking, unless maybe they were all youths and children, her background being a successful pediatrician.
Her medical qualifications go far beyond pediatrics.
You are correct Mr. Shewchuk. She has a wealth of experience with demon sex and lizard DNA.
Woot! Subject# 5 has entered the set of Sloppy Thinkers!
Gratz to you Henry! You, along with Izaak, Pete, Adrian and Steve, are all proving your absolute BRILLIANCE in rational thought with your one common means of sloppy thinking.
Aren’t you all just cute in your Stupid?
Your logical fallacy is:
The Genetic Fallacy (Adrian had a conceptual issue with this term earlier Henry, so for your edification I’ll clarify below. You know, in case you’re having a similar failure as he?): This fallacy avoids the argument by shifting focus onto something’s or someone’s origins. It’s similar to an ad hominem fallacy in that it leverages existing negative perceptions to make someone’s argument look bad, without actually presenting a case for why the argument itself lacks merit.
Clarification (for Henry and Adrian): In this context, “Genetic” doesn’t have ANYTHING to do with an INDIVIDUAL’S origins or DNA, but rather, it’s called the “Genetic Fallacy” because:
“You judged something as either good or bad on the basis of where it comes from, or from whom it came.”
https://tinyurl.com/bvfmw4k
Syscomputing do you know what posting the same thing over and over expecting different results is? Immanuel is an qualified doctor, experienced with treating people who have suffered from daemon sex.
Are you asking on my behalf or yours Henry? It would seem we’re both guilty.
If the latter, could you elaborate on what you mean by “expecting different results”? E.g., are you assuming I’m expecting different results from the (at present) 5 of you who belong to the Sloppy Thinking Club?
I mean, it COULD be devastating to expect a sloppy thinker to . . . well, NOT be a sloppy thinker. So thanks, but you don’t have to worry. I wouldn’t think of expecting a grain of intellect from the ilks of thee. 🙂
Anxiously awaiting your reply . . .
‘do you know what posting the same thing over and over expecting different results is?’
Gee, Henry, how many times on this thread alone, have you posted the same sarcastic crack?
@ sycomputing: Before you continue, have you actually watched her sermons yet?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNqB1DmMWaM
I have. It was highly enlightening and I recommend it to all.
Or this one – Battle Axe Deliverance! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYwjA8ZDyCE
325 likes! Still available! Not taken down or deleted! Hallelujah indeed.
Now, having watched all that, tell us more about this Genetic Fallacy you’re on about – the one where we judge something as good or bad on the basis of it’s origin…
Matthew 12:37, Proverbs 12:15, James 1:26, Matthew 15:35-37
“Genetic fallacy”? Is that your problem, got a Dr Richard Levine complex you simply can’t get over? Don’t sweat it, you can pretend to be whatever you want here in America, we are not required to accept your fantasy. We will laugh at you and point so everyone knows what a ‘tard you are.
Great! Then it’s JUST like I said before! You have evidence for your claim that Dr. Immanuel has publicly stated what Petit_Barde asked anyone to confirm:
“Dr Immanuel has publicly stated that infertility is caused by people have dream sex with demons and that alien DNA is being used for medical treatment”.
To this, you said:
“She says it in her sermons.”
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/07/29/hump-day-hilarity-banned-by-big-tech/#comment-3043371
It’s VERY simple. I don’t believe anyone’s claims without evidence. You’ve stated she said it in her sermons, which means you’ve heard her say it in her sermons and YOU can point us all to where she said it.
So do it? Pretty simple right?
One thing “western world” centrics (e.g. Adrian Mann?) don’t (would not) comprehend –
Nigerian Christians are crazy…right up until you look at the type of crazy that they’re combating in Nigeria. Then they’re sane harbingers of rationality. Concepts of battle in spiritual places make a lot of sense in a context where witch doctors are still known to kill albino babies in order to sell the parts which are magic when eaten. *
I don’t know to whom she was directly “preaching”, Adrian Mann, but the ‘preaching’ style and content makes more sense given the above (her target is not YOU, the western world, but certain parts, sects IN Africa, or here in the US, where ‘old beliefs and practices’ still exist.)
.
.
* h/t Julie Pascal of IP
Hey I just say forget them and let them take their $2,500 per dose remdisivir if they catch Sars2 – the drug that has been pushed on patients for Hep-C and Ebola but did nothing to cure them.
HCQ+ZnSO4+Azithromycin immediately for early treatment followed by steroids if LRT symptoms develop, that’s basically the cure for the newest cold virus until herd immunity is reached. Chicken Little can stop running for the cave now.
Turner, HCQ+ZnSO4+Azithromycin does not cure COVID-19
“Syscomputing do you know what posting the same thing over and over expecting different results is?”
Irony is lost on you isn’t it Hank.
‘She has a wealth of experience with demon sex and lizard DNA.’
My guess is your mother does too. That explains you.
LOL
Look at the Henry Ford Health Systems study. Much better results from hydroxychloroquine.
Nope….that WAS from the Henry Ford study, first line of their results table.
This is the study:
https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30534-8/fulltext
Again, although they got better results, they did not include Zinc in the mix. Maybe they serve fortified food at the hospital containing added zinc.
Yep, HCQ is not a treatment for end of life care….we get it.
And yet the American medical “establishment” keeps pushing it as such.
And how much zinc was used? Is this the fake study pulled by the lancet or another désigned to fail?
Not only must zinc be included in the treatment, but the patient needs to jump up and down on their left foot 10 times, then spin 360 degrees counterclockwise for the HCQ to have any effect.
Ahhh, ain’t you a cute lie spewing leftard!?!?! So precious.
HCQ+ZnSO4+Azithromycin has been tested in a double blind randomized trial. It doesn’t work.
DMacKenzie July 29, 2020 at 12:35 pm
re: “And it points to Dr. Stella’s claim of ..
AT THIS rate NO DOCTOR’S prescription is worth a damn. NONE of them. Better check with the CDC and or the NIH before ANY prescription is written, eh DMacKenzie? Well, F that, DMacKenzie.
You got that from my description of her as a successful pediatrician. Alprazolam might help with that. But you need a prescription.
The fact that you deliberately omit the name, date, and source of the study says a lot about you.
Line 7 of the lead story is the study I am referring to. Your comment shows you didn’t read it…..
They used 14 times the recommended dosage of HCQ, a toxic level. It causes toxicity at this level. This study was either a display of total ignorance, or was a deliberate attempt to produce a negative outcome. Quite likely to produce the much vaunted serious side effects.
DMacKenzie: Several months ago Watts Up With That reported that hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin were not sufficient on their own and that zinc was an essential ingredient. This has been confirmed by a number of informal sources. The study from which you quoted is but one of the many which have confirmed how not to use hydroxychloroquine to treat Covid-19. But we already know that.
You are misreading the study. And the raw results are confusing.
Those treated with HCQ only had half the death rate 13% as compared to those who received no treatment 26%.
The part you quoted is the percentage of those treated who died.
It appears there was cherry picking by a panel of doctors to determine which patient got the treatment.
I noticed it took 24 hours for them to treat the very sick patients with the HCQ cocktails. The treatment only lasted 6 days.
The virus starts in the throat and takes a week to get to lungs and spends a week in the lungs. These people were not treated early. HCQ stops the virus from replicating. It cannot help patients when the virus has replicated and has attacked the lung. It is too late.
That explains why 26% of the untreated patients died. These were very sick patients who for some strange reason could not get early treatment with HCQ.
Only 4% of the general covid patients die from covid and the death rate drops in the summer as the US population is less Vitamin D deficient in the summer.
It looks as if this study, in a Democratic controlled state, was designed to fail and HCQ still managed to show very good results.
The study conclusions are (I am quoting the conclusions not paraphrasing).
Hydroxychloroquine provided a 66% hazard ratio reduction, and hydroxychloroquine+azithromycin 71% compared to neither treatment (p<0.001).
Conclusions and Relevance: In this multi-hospital assessment, when controlling for COVID-19 risk factors, treatment with hydroxychloroquine alone and in combination with azithromycin was associated with reduction in COVID-19 associated mortality.
162 1202 13.5% HCQ Only
33 147 22.4% AZ Only
157 783 20.1% HCQ & AZ
108 409 26.4% None
460 2541 18.1% Total fatalities.
But again… no zinc.
They must have been surprised by the results though if they designed it to fail… again.
The zinc is the actual chemical that stop replication of the virus. All these doctors not adding zinc are incompetent as they obviously don’t know the mechanism of action of HCQ and basically wasting people’s lives by doing pretend-science without full knowledge of what they do. It is not only incompetence but criminal by ignorance.
If you listened to the event the firs thing you would learn is that there are two different cases early treatment and treatment very late after people are very sick
They only made claims related to early treatment while the case you state was when there was already considerable damage which there are no claims for magic results for the medicine.
Furthermore the totally false claims about the side effects for a medication extensively used for over 65 years reveals and agenda that any honest individual would doubt the accuracy of all the claims made by dishonest detractors with an agenda to get elected.
When the patient is in ICU, it is NOT the time for antivirals – much, much too late. Whether that is cheap HCQ or expensive Remdesivir, or one of the in-between pharmaceuticals. Especially when combined with massive overdoses, the protocol is downright dangerous.
Referencing such unethical, voodoo “studies” is the pinnacle of “spreading misinformation.” Not that I want those doing so to be suppressed – only ridiculed.
Your “study” is a bogus one, but of course you knew that, didn’t you? It’s SOP for you anti-HCQ people to cherry-pick “studies” designed to fail. HCQ works both prophylactically, and in the beginning stages of the disease, and should include zinc. In the ICU, it is too late for it to do much good.
The way some of these anti-HCQ studies went, you could “prove” that pulling people out of the water does NOT save them from drowning…
After 20 minutes, 100% of the people pulled out of the water died.
That was from the Henry Ford Study….which is pro HCQ…..I quote:
“Overall crude mortality rates were 18.1% in the entire cohort, 13.5% in the hydroxychloroquine alone group, 20.1% among those receiving hydroxychloroquine plus azithromycin, 22.4% among the azithromycin alone group, and 26.4% for neither drug,” the team wrote in a report published in the International Journal of Infectious Diseases.
Immanuel is 100% correct: ” lizard-like “reptilian” aliens are involved in the United States government.”
..
She works in Texas: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2016/05/donald-trump-shape-shifting-lizard.html
Henry did she do any of your double blind studies that you crave so desperately?
https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638
No zinc?
Henry now you are really getting dishonest
‘Getting?’
Show us the randomized double blind HCQ + zpak + zinc study please. Hurry please, another 1000 people have died today.
And they all took HCQ with zinc…got it Henry
Henry Pool
This stupid Canada study gave people HCQ for four days and their conclusion, is the research team learned nothing about how to use HCQ as a prophylactic. Which is absolutely correct. Nothing learned in that study.
HCQ cannot work as a prophylactic if the dosage was too high and the time to short for the drug to do what it is doing to stop covid.
We know from the next study that the HCQ triple cocktail is very effective in stopping covid, reduces death by a factor of five and reduces hospitalization by 80%.
The secret to saving the patient is to treat the patient with the HCQ triple cocktail early before the virus has spread to their lungs and it is too late. The studies that allege the study in question,…
… proved the triple cocktail does not work gave HCQ to almost dead people where the virus had spread to their lungs and damaged their lungs. That is not medical ‘research’. I do not know what to call that.
The results of this early use HCQ triple cocktail covid study is:
The HCQ triple cocktail (Low dosage HCQ, Azithromycin and Zinc) when given to at risk patients early reduced their risk of hospitalization by 80%.
Early HCQ triple cocktail treatment resulted in 5 times less all cause deaths.
Five times less deaths would have saved 100,000 US lives.
ttps://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202007.0025/v1
COVID-19 Outpatients – Early Risk-Stratified Treatment with Zinc Plus Low Dose Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin: A Retrospective Case Series Study
I bet you like to mask debate with Izaak
While bigger minds ponder bigger issues, you have this to bring forth. How old are you?
Dr. Emmanuel is a warrior.
Whereas Henry pool is kind of a lizard-like reptilian.
Ad hominem much there Joel?
Uh oh, is that a criticism Henry? Look at you. Your hypocrisy is showing again.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/07/29/hump-day-hilarity-banned-by-big-tech/#comment-3043427
Can you cover that mess up? I mean really. No one wants to see your Stupid . . . ew.
Hank whining about ad hominems. Now that thar is funny.
That is not a “ad hominem” Mr. Syscomputing. I cited fact, as she has espoused her knowledge about the subject matter.
Tell us Mr. MarkW, did Immanuel not make any allusions about dream demons affecting health?
You mean because you answered Mr. Shewchuk’s claim of:
“Her medical qualifications go far beyond pediatrics.”
with:
“You are correct Mr. Shewchuk. She has a wealth of experience with demon sex and lizard DNA.”
Now it’s not merely your hypocrisy that’s showing, but your lying as well.
Blech, Henry “Cess” Pool . . . you’re becoming something of a bad taste in the rational man’s mouth. Can you get on with your argument here:
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/07/29/hump-day-hilarity-banned-by-big-tech/#comment-3043556
I’m getting sleepy and wouldn’t want to miss b**tch-slapping you about the intellectual head and shoulders a little more before I hit the sack. Pretty soon I suspect I’m going to get MOD-ified for being a jerk, and who could blame them?
Anyway, Adrian went off to play with a boat full of kitty’s or something, I’m not exactly sure . . . so you’re it.
Get on with it. The side of your face isn’t yet red enough.
You insult the person rather than dealing with the subject matter.
That’s the very definition of ad hominem Hank.
That’s called reptiloid, what you are citing and linking fake news, as usual.
😀
All censorship should be banned. This will result in two f*** words in each paragraph, but we should be used to that by now. The sheer volume of nonsense will require the publishers to cull their archives daily and the rest of us to be selective in our sources. And, it will put the “Masters of the Universe” back in their proper place.
What needs to be banned is selective editing. A public figure speaks on a subject the entirety of what they say should be broadcast/published/played. Failure to do so should be met with massive, career ending fines and jail time. All this shyte would come to a screeching halt.
If Big Tech allows informed doctors to speak about solutions, our economy would open up again and begin to pick up where it left off. How is that fair to Joe Biden? Since he can’t rub a noun and verb together, his chances of being the president for a few months before he hands it off to the VP, would be nil.
And who steps up to be the new VP? it wouldn’t be Pelosi by any chance ( or constitutional requirement) would it?
New President immediately appoints new VP.
New VP appointment is subject to confirmation by both houses of Congress (see 25th Amendment).
..
This happened when Agnew resigned and Nixon nominated Ford to replace him.
Someone of equal incompetence as Biden and the new president, I would presume. There’s a large pool to choose from but the decision could fall to their ability to virtue signal because that’s extremely important among deciding circles.
Ah yes the personal attacks. When you can’t dispute the facts, attack the person. It is the tactic of a very WEAK position.
First:
On c19study.com they list 65 studies (39 peer reviewed). All the “negative” ones have something in common: “Late stage”, “Late treatment” etc. Why are they waiting until late in the treatment cycle to administer it? That is known NOT to work.
Second:
President of El Salvador Nayib Bukele has announced that he is taking hydroxychloroquine as a preventative measure against the coronavirus. Bukele told reporters on Tuesday that “most world leaders” are doing the same and has questioned why world leaders are being advised to use it while the public is not.
Third:
The CDC is over counting covid-19 deaths by 90%
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news/if-covid-fatalities-were-90-2-lower-how-would-you-feel-about-schools-reopening/
Fear not… apparently Jesus will destroy Facebooks’ servers if her videos are not restored. Just checking… nope, they’re still working. Anyway, Jesus wont be a thing when this anti-religiousness vaccine gets out. That or the alien DNA… or something. But, yeah, she’s totally credible. Fully qualified in pediatrics, angels and demons, witches, sex in the dream world, alien DNA… seriously people, what’s happened to you? Whatever happened to critical thinking?
Ad hominem – the resort of liars and idiots. And you believe you are engaging in “critical thinking”? LOL!
Speaking of Jesus, shouldn’t you tear the beam out of your own eye before pointing out the beam in someone else’s eye?
In case you’re already lost (I forgive you), that means, “Don’t you contradict yourself?”
But hey, look at this way Adrian, at least your consistent in the Stupid we’ve seen so far from Izaak, Steve and Pete. Now we can add YOU to the Sloppy Thinkers list – give yourself a hand buddy!
Your logical fallacy is:
The Genetic Fallacy: This fallacy avoids the argument by shifting focus onto something’s or someone’s origins. It’s similar to an ad hominem fallacy in that it leverages existing negative perceptions to make someone’s argument look bad, without actually presenting a case for why the argument itself lacks merit.
https://tinyurl.com/bvfmw4k
By the way, how long have the 4 of you been attending IA?
Did you watch a sermon yet? Stop wasting your time here and go and watch one, so you don’t have to trot out your copy/paste Genetic Fallacy thing again. We got it. You Googled “Logical Fallacy” and copied the one you liked best. Well done. Anyway, you’re now boring and not worth bothering with. I’m off to play “Sailor Cats” instead. Good evening.
Ok this is the trifecta of redirection Adrian. 3 times I’ve asked you for evidence for your claims and 3 times you’ve played the Stupid with your nonsense.
Your logical fallacy is:
Burden of Proof: You said that the burden of proof lies not with the person making the claim, but with someone else to disprove.
“The burden of proof lies with someone who is making a claim, and is not upon anyone else to disprove. The inability, or disinclination, to disprove a claim does not render that claim valid, nor give it any credence whatsoever. However it is important to note that we can never be certain of anything, and so we must assign value to any claim based on the available evidence, and to dismiss something on the basis that it hasn’t been proven beyond all doubt is also fallacious reasoning.”
https://tinyurl.com/lpyb9po
Now look at you. And in front of the entire field of viewers on the world’s most viewed website on climate change, etc. I gave you every opportunity to do what YOU SAID you could do, and you refused to do it.
I think you’re a liar. I don’t believe you have the goods on Dr Immanuel.
Going forward, I’m gonna treat you like what you are.
Awww, did you really take yourself and your toys away to play Sea Kitties?
Wait! Come back! I’m sorry!
I didn’t mean to toss you to and fro about the intellectual room like a Garbage Pail rag doll! Well I did but I was mean and I shouldn’t have done it.
It was just too much fun and I couldn’t stop.
Honest, I have a problem . . . pity me.
Hillary Clinton said that, while in the WH, she conversed with Eleanor Roosevelt – who had been dead for 40 years. Yet, she was considered by 0 to be the most qualified person to ever run for president.
Whatever happened to critical thinking? You won’t find it here.
Pool posts: “Whatever happened to critical thinking? You won’t find it here.”
You may now vacate the premises then.
When will WordPress get a BLOCK feature that can be applied to individual posters?
_Jim careful you don’t have a dream tonight of sex with a deamon. If you do, contact Dr. Immanuel.
Henry Pool showing his ‘western world’ centric view. You’re an idiot, given the bigger picture in the world. That I think we can bank on.
Hank’s a leftist, he already knows that he’s the smartest person in any room. He’s proven it to himself time and time against.
_Jim, people in the “Eastern” world have dreams, just like people in the “Western” world do. What is your point?
…
PS, could you refrain from calling me names (idiot)?….it makes you look bad. (Ditto for you MarkW)
Jim already explained that to you Hank.
Hank, will you for once actually deal with the question at hand rather than flinging insults and ad hominems?
I take it that you are referring to YOUR post.
No kidding when you obscure the debate.
As long as you are posting we won’t find it from you.
‘Critical thinking’ – from someone who’s every opinion is already predetermined.
Henry Pool do you have something to say that is supported by facts? Critical thought is observation and logic based. It is not name calling. You will recognize it when you see it.
What is your theory why a Black Woman from Nigeria who has moved to the US and is now running a Houston clinic that see 10 to 15 covid patients a day.
Houston has one of the worst problems with obesity and diabetes in the US. And Houston has a large ‘black’ population. It is a fact that twice as many US blacks are dying from covid than the US general population.
Why the Lady Doctor would lie about the HCQ cocktails effectiveness, to treat high risk covid patients?
This courageous doctor is risking her career because she knows many of her diabetic, asthmatic, overweight, covid sick patients would have died if they were not treated with the HCQ cocktail.
In the Michigan study they lost 18% of their diabetic, asthmatic, overweight covid sick patients.
The Michigan study found the HCQ cocktail reduced the death rate by 50%. This is a link to the published study.
Odd that Fauci has not read Michigan study linked to below.
Fauci is quoted today in the BCC and he said there is no proof that the HCQ cocktail is a highly effective treatment for covid, if given early in the virus’s progression.
The virus attacks the throat first and then moves on to the lungs. The HCQ cocktail it appears stops the virus from replicating.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7330574/pdf/main.pdf
.”Hydroxychloroquine provided a 66% hazard ratio reduction,
and hydroxychloroquine + azithromycin provided a 71% hazard ratio reduction compared to neither treatment (p<0.001)."
Let me explain what a Hazard Ratio Reduction Factor is… That term was explained in preliminary paper.
HCQ plus azithromycin reduced the covid death rate by 50% and it reduce long term serious damage to patients organs.
William Astley, in medicine, no drug, no treatment/therapy is 100%. “Curing” 350 out of 350 patients suffering from a sometimes fatal virus infection is suspect.
Once again, Hank projects onto others his own short comings.
There is NO critical thinking with any of your TROLLING Henry Pool and your other rascal mates
In my opinion you have added absolutely nothing to this debate about treatment for Covid 19.
IF I was running this site you would have been banned but this site believes in Free Speech .
The Facts of the matter is that Hydroxychloroquine HCQ in the correct amount with zinc and an antibiotic administered at an early stage of the disease will prevent DEATHS.
For some unknown reason trials were run with the a predetermined out come of proving that HCQ does not work .
This Doctor claims that she has not lost a patient .
This claim can be verified or not by those in charge and it will be in due course .
If I had family member die from Covid 19 that were denied this treatment and it is proven to work as claimed ,I would think that there would be a very good case against these health officials that have blocked the use of this drug.
HCQ has been used for many ailments and still is and suddenly politically motivated doctors state that HCQ is has dangerous side effects ( which are quite mild ) unless large doses are given.
Quinine has been used for almost 400 year and has saved probably millions of lives and HCQ is derived from Quinine.
If the risks of taking HCQ were at all dangerous it would have been banned long ago .
The risks are very low using HCQ and most people that I know would take a small risk rather than rely on unproven treatment and DIE.
Graham
“Critical thinking” would require that just the presented facts / observations about the efficacy or otherwise of the HCQ treatments be examined.
Who presents the facts / observations has nothing to do with the assessment.
Adrian
You criticize her religion. That’s boring. The interesting questions should be:
Is she really a doctor?
Has she really cured 350 out of 350 patients?
If both are true, that’s great news!
And if it’s true, and your trying to cover it up with b*llsh*t, then I wonder, what are your goals? Where’s the money? I do not trust you.
re: “But, yeah, she’s totally credible. Fully qualified in pediatrics, angels and demons, witches, sex in the dream world, alien DNA”
THERE YOU GO AGAIN, projecting your ‘western world’ values on a culture (from Africa that she has to work with) that is about as far removed from ANYTHING you’ve seen or experienced in your life to date.
Adrian Mann – a man of the ‘western world’ only. (NO world travel, experience with other cultures, beliefs et al?)
What is the END GOAL of all of that?
They can’t all be doing it for a small evil corp like Gilead.
The same reason they do anything: To try and take over the world.
the second they banned it….it went viral
..and now millions will see it that wouldn’t have
Let’s see if they take this source down too:
(SHOCKER) Dr. Stella Immanuel Talk Say Hydroxychloroquine Na Cure For Covid19 | Pidgin News
Jul 29, 2020, by Plus TV Africa, 69.2K subscribers
It is scary how censored YouTube is today. Yesterday I watched the video but today it is pulled and only hit jobs on her and Trump are up. And all the comments are all negative so clearly any that disagree with the woke censors are deleted.
I fear Trump has left it too late to tackle woke bias in Google et al.
The American people are not going to die…. For stinking politics. It is not going to happen.
The Masters of the Medical Universe, and their Master accomplices in Internet control/the fake media…. Are all going to be charged with criminal negligence resulting in death.
This is a quote from the six hospital 2541 Michigan hospital study. (See below for link)
Hydroxychloroquine provided a 66% hazard ratio reduction, and hydroxychloroquine + azithromycin 71% compared to neither treatment (p < 0.001).
50% reduction in death for the HCQ cocktail treated patients and 71% reduction in permanent life changing damage.
This is the biggest news story of the century.
The Masters of Medical Universe … Did not know it is a medical fact that the HCQ cocktail when given to the patient very earlier in the virus’s progression through the human body ….. Is almost a cure for covid.
I would assume everyone assumed Trump has just repeating a silly old man's tale.
They did not know Trump got the cure for covid from a Jewish doctor.
The Jewish doctor found that the HCQ cocktail cured his covid sick patients who were high risk patients.
18% of the high risk patients die if they are not treated. See Michigan study. 257 people of the 2541 patients died. The HCQ cocktail reduced the death rate by more than 50%.
The Jewish doctors results were much better. He because he did not wait 48 hours before treating the very sick covid patients. He had zero deaths and no serious damage to the patients he treated with the cocktail.
The Malaria drug that is used for the cure has been used for 20 years and its side effects are completely known.
And the same Malaria drug is in a 2005 paper published by the US Institute of Health, recommended HCG to treat coronal viruses. The covid virus is a coronal virus and is 78% identical to other coronal viruses.
The Jewish doctor has excited when he ‘discovered’ the HCQ cocktail was a cure for covid. He did not understand why the Medical System completely ignored his discovery.
The Jewish Doctor has gone on to treat 700 covid sick patient with the HCQ cocktail and had only one death.
Now think about the ‘ethics’ of the Michigan six hospital study.
18% of the Michigan randomized HCQ cocktail test 2541, or 457 very sick covid sick patients died.
Half of the 2541 covid sick who suffered permanent damage and/or death from covid….
Did not get the lifesaving HCQ cocktail.
Those that did get the HCQ cocktail, were forced to wait 48 hours….
… I would assume the masters thought the delay in giving the very sick covid patient’s treatment with the HCQ cocktail would result in the test failing….
The result of the Michigan study is that there was a 50% less death rate in those treated with the HCQ cocktail compared to those who got hope.
And in addition, there was a 70% less sever life changing damage due to covid in those patients who received the HCQ cocktail as compared to those who got hope.
https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30534-8/fulltext
Treatment with Hydroxychloroquine, Azithromycin, and Combination in Patients Hospitalized with COVID-19
Results
Of 2,541 patients, with a median total hospitalization time of 6 days (IQR: 4-10 days), median age was 64 years (IQR:53-76 years), 51% male, 56% African American, with median time to follow-up of 28.5 days (IQR:3-53). Overall in-hospital mortality was 18.1% (95% CI:16.6%-19.7%);
This is a link to the interview of the Jewish doctor who used Zinc sulfate plus Hydroxychloroquine plus azithromycin to treat 700 covid patients, who were sick and showing symptoms, with only one death.
https://techstartups.com/2020/04/03/updates-from-dr-vladimir-zelenko-now-treated-700-coronavirus-patients-with-99-9-success-rate-using-hydroxychloroquine-zinc-sulfate-and-z-pak-1-outpatient-died-after-not-following-protocol-exclusi/
But the video of Dr Zalenko has been deleted for violating YouTube terms of setvice. What are they? Is it up anywhere else?
Try banned .video Brighteon .com
They used 14 times the recommended dosage of HCQ, a toxic level. It causes toxicity at this level. This study was either a display of total ignorance, or was a deliberate attempt to produce a negative outcome. Quite likely to produce the much vaunted serious side effects.
How long are we going to take this post truth world disrespect?
You don’t mention ZINC which seems to be a critical part of the protocol.
I would hypothesise that if HCQ + Az > 71%, then Zn might just account for the claimed 100%.
IF it is then 100%, that’s a pretty remarkable result for any drug treatment.
This simply doesn’t add up. Does a doctor need to give himself Covid & then cure himself in order to prove/disprove its efficacity? Or a double-blind study of 10,000 doctors?
Would they all then be cancelled?
Whilst double-blind trials are morally reprehensible, a cover-up of this magnitude if revealed would be for a court in The Hague, NL.
Kinda like the 100% positive test rates in Florida. Or everyone that dies, dies OF it.
And those results were achieved without Zinc.
One interview with Dr Zelenko is here.
Madonna (remember her?) is ‘getting in on the act’ too –
“Madonna supports doctor touting hydroxychloroquine cure. Twitter scolds her, too.”
July 29, 2020
https://www.bizpacreview.com/2020/07/29/madonna-supports-doctor-touting-hydroxychloroquine-cure-twitter-scolds-her-too-953146
Anybody have a link to that leaked video where the Google top execs are lamenting the fact that Orange Man got elected?
Madonna scolded by Twitter. That didn’t happen when she threatened to blow up the White House.
Madonna did not threaten to blow up the White House on Twitter.
Yep, she did that at a podium in front of about 25,000 people. Good catch, buddy!! THEN she posted it to twatter, so all you twats could slobber over it.
Wrong 2hotel9, she did not post that on Twitter.
Here’s an excerpt from _Jim’s link:
“According to a now-expired website for the group, which was founded by Dr. Simone Gold, physicians staged a “White Coat Summit” in Washington, D.C., Monday and Tuesday to “create the opportunity for frontline doctors to talk directly to the American people.”
“If Americans continue to let so-called experts and media personalities make their decisions, the great American experiment of a Constitutional Republic with Representative Democracy, will cease,” the website stated.”
I think it is a good idea to have frontline doctors talking to the American people. Dr. Gold ought to hold one of these press conferences once a week, to give doctors a chance to give us their opinions. Dr. Gold said she would have a new website up and running soon.
All official government restrictions on using HCQ should be removed. If a doctor wants to prescribe it, the doctor should be able to do so without fear that pharmacists and state officials will refuse the perscription.
Trump should come out and pardon HCQ. 🙂
From 1989 Centennial (11th edition) Merck Index– Hydroxychloroquine, bunch of numbers and letters for the formula……Use in combination with cyclophohsphamide and azathioprine, q.q.v. in the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis……..Series of articles on clinical use…….THERAP CAT: Antimalarial; antirheumatic, lupus erythematosus suppressant.
Last millennium, must be out of date.
The fastest study when a pandemic starts are field studies.
Anecdotes from one doctor are not worth much but from 1,000 doctors is a field study.
Lots of people in the world were taking regular small HCQ dosess to prevent makaria.
Did covid infect them as much as non HCQ people?
Lupus patients took HCQ too.
How did they do in avoiding covid?
This should have nothing to do with politics.
Double blind is time consuming and expensive for an old genericc drug.
Double blind would NOT replicate small doses taken over a number of years by healthy people to prevent malaria — something that might reduce covid infections too.
A field study of many doctors in the high malaria rate nations could provide valuable data about HCQ that a double blind study would miss.
Yes, this should have nothing to do with politics. But to Socialist true believers, everything is about Socialism. Everything. We should not be surprised that institutions are creating deceptive “studies.”
HCQ is not effective in all countries – malaria has become resistant
For many years the treatment of malaria in Africa has relied on chloroquine, sulfadoxine combined with pyrimethamine, and quinine, with the latter being used mainly to treat severe cases. Quinine remains efficacious, but chloroquine and sulfadoxine-pyrimethamine are failing, and this is leading to an increase in mortality from malaria especially in East Africa.1,2
Although resistance to chloroquine was first detected on the east coast of Africa in 1977, the drug has provided effective treatment for malaria for much of Africa for over 20 years.3,4 Unfortunately this is unlikely to be the case for sulfadoxine-pyrimethamine, the combination adopted by several African countries as the first line treatment for malaria when chloroquine has failed. Systematic surveillance for resistance to malaria drugs and the results of trials of new drugs or drug combinations that could be used to replace chloroquine or sulfadoxine-pyrimethamine are showing a worryingly high level of r