Guest essay by Eric Worrall
According to Guardian author, we need to re-awaken the spirit of social imperialism, like Bismark’s German social security programmes or Theodore Roosevelt’s “New Nationalism”, to create broad acceptance of big government green new deal style efforts to rescue Capitalism from itself.
Patriotism could be the unlikely answer to solving the climate crisis
Anatol Lieven
Sun 15 Mar 2020 06.00 AEDTLast week’s budget was a missed opportunity: we need to mobilise our attachment to country
…
This need for social solidarity links the green new deal to the patriotic origins of the welfare state. Both conservatives and socialists have agreed in attributing the welfare state to socialism; conservatives because they have come to dislike it, the left because they want to claim all credit for it.
In fact, the origins of the British welfare state lie very largely in the social imperialism movement in the years before 1914. The supporters of this movement were an extraordinarily varied bunch: H G Wells, George Bernard Shaw and Sidney and Beatrice Webb on the left; liberal imperialists such as Winston Churchill and William Beveridge; patriotic writers including Rudyard Kipling and Arthur Conan Doyle; imperial bureaucrats such as Lord Milner and John Buchan; and soldiers including Field Marshal Lord Roberts. Their thinking echoed, in key respects, Bismarck’s social security programme in Germany and the reformist “new nationalism” of Theodore Roosevelt in the US.
…
What all these figures had in common was a fear of social disintegration and revolution; a belief (right or wrong) in the British Empire as a force for progress; and a belief that social solidarity, “national efficiency”, and a degree of national self-sufficiency were essential to survive what they (correctly) saw would be the colossal social, economic and political strains of a new European war.
…
The task then is to mobilise patriotism by convincing national populations that global heating is a threat, not just to humanity and the planet but to the interests and the future survival of their own countries; and that society, as a whole, will pull together, alleviate suffering and make sacrifices as part of a common effort.
If we can’t manage this I very much doubt that liberal democracy will survive what is coming at us down the line.
Anatol Lieven is the author of Climate Change and the Nation State: The Realist Case
Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/14/the-climate-crisis-will-not-be-solved-until-we-believe-it-is-in-our-best-interests
Invoking patriotism and nationalism to unite Conservatives and Liberals into acceptance of big government socialism, to solve the climate crisis. What could possibly go wrong?
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Good grief, Eric, this posting is disturbing in many aspects. How far has the British (OK, the USA also) culture descended into chaos to even make these kinds of statements, by Lievin, in open public forum? The USA copied the Second Amendment from the British, and it offers a lot of protection against this outright proposed tyranny, and I wonder if our British homeland still remembers this? This level of dysfunctional fear of Global Warming is the responsibility of left wing kooks and their cooperative media. How can any scientist present rational data to someone this far gone? By the way, Roosevelts New Deal was, although not good, a far cry from the German descent into Nazisim. Good grief! I need a drink.
Wrong Roosevelt, Ron!
You’re right, Newminster, my bad! Theodore introduced New Nationalism in 1910 and argued for human rights over property rights. Still a long way from the Nazis.
The problem is that without property rights, there are no human rights.
The right to own property is a human right.
A “right” is a freedom of action on the part of an individual requiring that does not require permission from any other person.
All living things have rights in the sense that none of their actions require permission. The actions identified as human rights pertain to human beings.
Hmm.. Nationalism and Socialism in one package. Didn’t some country already try that? What was it? National Socialism Party… Wasn’t that Germany in the 1930’s?
Could these people be any less self-aware?
Nope. Self-awareness is not a failing of the Left, and certainly not of the Regressive Left. They think doublethink is a good thing….
It’s not a bug, it’s a feature.
Well, if they try it in England they’ll have to come up with a catchy acronym. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was INGSOC.
Double plus good!
Don’t forget Russia!
That’s what Stalin did after Barbarossa.
The way things are working out, some speculation is warranted around what would have happened if Germany were allowed to develop their atomic program and they used atomic weapons on the U.K or if Russia were allowed to take over all of Germany? Would perhaps modern U.K. and German citizens have a better appreciation of capitalism?
Instead, we have thousands of Loydos seemingly everywhere that have little or no sense whatsoever.
Here is the core falsehood of this article, THE BIG LIE:
“The task then is to mobilise patriotism by convincing national populations that global heating is a threat, not just to humanity and the planet but to the interests and the future survival of their own countries; and that society, as a whole, will pull together, alleviate suffering and make sacrifices as part of a common effort.”
“GLOBAL HEATING” IS NOT A THREAT. Global cooling is.
“GLOBAL HEATING” OMG that sounds so much worse than global warming ! OK, I now realise how serious it is and we much act NOW! Where can I send you all my money?
The Guardian are a laughing stock. They have gone from being one of the most respected investigative journalism organisations in the UK to being a vulgar sensational taboid.
Their front page yesterday ( as for the last few weeks ) was CORONA VIRUS + CORONA VIRUS + CORONA VIRUS + CORONA VIRUS + CORONA VIRUS +
international news : CORONA VIRUS + CORONA VIRUS + CORONA VIRUS + CORONA VIRUS + CORONA VIRUS +
sports sections was : CORONA VIRUS + CORONA VIRUS + CORONA VIRUS + CORONA VIRUS + CORONA VIRUS +
opinion articles : CORONA VIRUS + CORONA VIRUS + CORONA VIRUS + CORONA VIRUS + CORONA VIRUS +
They got so breathless they even forgot the obligatory “climate du jour” article. Apparently unable to link CO2 to CORONA VIRUS !
The lie, Allan, is that they actually mean what they say. Doesn’t “alleviate suffering and make sacrifices as part of a common effort.” sound just splendid? Only a grinch can argue with that.
But the saying is not the doing.
When the ilk of Anatol Lieven get into power, they alleviate the suffering of the few by imposing suffering on the many. And sacrificing for the common effort means forcing people into lives of torture in slave labor gulags.
Anatol Lieven counsels enslavement to the state. Slavery for thee, control by me is Anatol Lieven’s message. Let no one be deceived.
Correct Pat – I called it in 2012.
Patrick Moore called it in 1994.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/03/05/abc-sees-positive-climate-change-lessons-from-coronavirus/#comment-2931982
I called it in 2012 – see my post below.
The global warming/climate change scam was never about the climate.
It was apparent years ago that the global warming alarmists were knowingly deceiving us – no rational person could be that stupid for that long – and they must have a covert agenda.
That covert agenda is now clear – it is totalitarian control of society and personal profit based on the climate scam.
The global warming alarmists’ once-covert agenda is now fully exposed and the evidence is everywhere – the USA Democrats are shouting it from the rooftops.
Anyone who still questions the warmists’ treasonous agenda now is corrupted, delusional or both.
Regards,Allan
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/06/24/weekly-climate-and-energy-news-roundup-53/#comment-855037
Instead of arguing about the science of global warming, we should just listen to what these enviro radicals are actually SAYING and DOING.
Maybe they know their global warming science is bogus, but it suits their purpose to use global warming hysteria as a smokescreen to mask their true intentions.
The radical warmists have done everything in their power to starve the world of fossil fuel energy that is required for continued global prosperity.
They have squandered a trillion dollars of scarce global resources on catastrophic humanmade global warming (CAGW) nonsense.
Investing these squandered resources in clean drinking water and sanitation alone would have saved the ~50 million kids who died from drinking contaminated water in the past 25+ years of CAGW hysteria.
Intelligent use of these scarce global resources could have easily saved as many people as were killed in the atrocities of Hitler, Stalin, or Mao.
50 million people died in Hitler’s WW2. Josef Stalin killed another 50 million of his own people in internal purges. Leftist hero Mao gets the prize, killing as many as 80 million Chinese during his Great Leap Backward.
The radical environmental movement has done equally well, rivaling Mao for fatalities caused by the banning of DDT and the misallocation of scarce global resources on the fraud of catastrophic humanmade global warming.
Since many of these enviro radicals are latter-day Malthusians, Club of Rome types, etc., it is reasonable to assume that THIS WAS THEIR INTENTION.
Is this too radical a proposal? Well, NO it is not: In addition to what the radical enviros DO, let’s EXAMINE what they SAY (h/t to Wayne):
http://green-agenda.com/
”My three goals would be to reduce human population to about 100 million worldwide, destroy the industrial infrastructure and see wilderness, with its full complement of species, returning throughout the world.”
David Foreman,
co-founder of Earth First!
”A total population of 250-300 million people, a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal.”
Ted Turner,
Founder of CNN and major UN donor
The prospect of cheap fusion energy is the worst thing that could happen to the planet.”
Jeremy Rifkin,
Greenhouse Crisis Foundation
”Giving society cheap, abundant energy would be the equivalent of giving an idiot child a machine gun.”
Paul Ehrlich,
Professor of Population Studies,
Author: “Population Bomb”, “Ecoscience”
”The big threat to the planet is people: there are too many, doing too well economically and burning too much oil.”
Sir James Lovelock,
BBC Interview
”We need to get some broad based support, to capture the public’s imagination… So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements and make little mention of any doubts… Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest.”
Stephen Schneider,
Stanford Professor of Climatology,
Lead author of many IPCC reports
”Unless we announce disasters no one will listen.”
Sir John Houghton,
First chairman of the IPCC
”It doesn’t matter what is true, it only matters what people believe is true.”
Paul Watson,
Co-founder of Greenpeace
”Childbearing should be a punishable crime against society, unless the parents hold a government license. All potential parents should be required to use contraceptive chemicals, the government issuing antidotes to citizens chosen for childbearing.”
David Brower,
First Executive Director of the Sierra Club
”We’ve got to ride this global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing in terms of economic and environmental policy.”
Timothy Wirth,
President of the UN Foundation
”No matter if the science of global warming is all phony… climate change provides the greatest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world.”
Christine Stewart,
former Canadian Minister of the Environment
”The only way to get our society to truly change is to frighten people with the possibility of a catastrophe.”
Emeritus Professor Daniel Botkin
”Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn’t it our responsibility to bring that about?”
Maurice Strong,
Founder of the UN Environmental Program
”A massive campaign must be launched to de-develop the United States. De-Development means bringing our economic system into line with the realities of ecology and the world resource situation.”
Paul Ehrlich,
Professor of Population Studies,
Author: “Population Bomb”, “Ecoscience”
”If I were reincarnated I would wish to return to earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels.”
Prince Phillip, Duke of Edinburgh,
husband of Queen Elizabeth II,
Patron of the Patron of the World Wildlife Foundation
”The only hope for the world is to make sure there is not another United States. We can’t let other countries have the same number of cars, the amount of industrialization we have in the US. We have to stop these third World countries right where they are.”
Michael Oppenheimer
Environmental Defense Fund
”Global Sustainability requires the deliberate quest of poverty, reduced resource consumption and set levels of mortality control.”
Professor Maurice King
”Current lifestyles and consumption patterns of the affluent middle class – involving high meat intake, use of fossil fuels, appliances, air-conditioning, and suburban housing – are not sustainable.”
Maurice Strong,
Rio Earth Summit
”Complex technology of any sort is an assault on the human dignity. It would be little short of disastrous for us to discover a source of clean, cheap, abundant energy, because of what we might do with it.”
Amory Lovins,
Rocky Mountain Institute
”I suspect that eradicating small pox was wrong. it played an important part in balancing ecosystems.”
John Davis,
Editor of Earth First! Journal
**********************************
These people are insane. Paul Ehrlich particularly so:
A few days after we landed on the moon 50 years ago, Stanford professor Paul Ehrlich forecast that we would disappear in a cloud of blue steam within 20 years. Ehrich is John Holdren’s close associate, and Holdren was Obama’s science advisor.”
https://realclimatescience.com/fifty-years-of-failed-apocalyptic-forecasts/
You are correct Matthew – insane or extremely deceitful – don’t rule out the latter.
Note that every scary prediction the warmists have made, more than 50 of them, has failed to happen, but that does not stop them – they just fabricate 50 more falsehoods.
The warmists actually have a covert agenda and they KNOW they are lying to us. Nobody could be this stupid for this long.
The worst of them are indeed deceitful, using the do-gooders to further their own totalitarian visions of utopia; namely, a world with only a few humans left, most of whom are slaves of the elite, kept in ignorance.
“ this posting is disturbing in many aspects. ”
Shur nuff, …… and I find this the most disturbing, to wit:
“HA”, Anatol Lieven is a day late and a dollar short.
The governments have already convinced their national populations that the Coronavirus is a pandemic threat to humanity and the planet, which has scared the bejesus (sh–) out of them, thus causing a panic buying of toilet paper.
Those “scared silly” people are demanding that their government (Politicians) save them, SAVE THEM, SAVE THEM, …….. and are willing to do anything they are told.
Seriously. No matter how you dress the pig it remains a pig. Socialism simply doesn’t work. Full stop. Whenever it’s failures become manifest and thus impossible to ignore free markets are always the reform solution. Google China economy.
Can’t sell the red one paint it green and try again and again and again. The price of liberty is unending vigilance.
As long as the supply of other people’s money doesn’t run out, socialism appears to work to those who are on the receiving end of all the stuff stolen by government. It takes decades for OPM to run out. Long enough for those on the receiving end to convince themselves that the good times will never end and that the only problem is that the rich still have too much stuff.
PS: This is why the government has to destroy the notion of property rights. It makes it easier for them to seize whatever they want in order to keep buying votes from the myrmidons.
Eco-fascism. At least they finally admit people like Bismark, the Prussian who supporters, friends, and colleagues voted the Nazis into power when the Prussian Conservative Party closed down and transferred its votes to Hitler are their heroes.
Dear oh god
Yes, what unfolded in the new 20th C following the wonderful social changes in Germany was horrible. The Guardo threw in Roosevelt number one for ‘inclusivity’ only. The US didn’t change. They had to rescue Europe’s @ur momisugly$$€$ twice in the first half of the century after the wonderful social experiments. At least the author proudly accepts what socialism has done though he makes no mention of two world wars.
This new wave of love Europe has for moldy old socialism is already bearing similar fruit.
One of my favorite sites is quote investigator (QI). With regard to your comment QI provides us with a twofer.
and
Patriotism is important. On the other hand, people who invoke patriotism to bolster their cause are often schysters of the first magnitude.
Actually, these days the last refuge of scoundrels is the race card.
It’s also the first refuge.
From the era of The White Man’s Burden
Incorporating the innate racism of the left. The po’ black man needs special, extra help…..
This, in the Grauniad, is code for “we know hoi polloi is at least informed enough to know that UK action on CO2 emission reduction is utterly pointless in the face of the massive emissions in the East and Africa. So let’s at least try to leverage their Little Englander mindset. Come on – let’s stick it to Johnny Foreigner by making flights and heating our homes unaffordable. We can beat him in our race back to the pre-industrial age”
Anatol Lieven wrote, “The task then is to mobilise patriotism by convincing national populations that global heating is a threat….”
Global heating? Oy!
Regards,
Bob
Bob they have argued that it’s climate change, not global warming and then they define climate change as … global warming. The ‘target’ is preventing 1.5C of warming! The Guardian editor has banned use of global warming so … ‘heating’!
As man-made climate change does not exist Anatol’s book ‘The Realist Case’ can’t be very realistic.
And Prof. Lieven subtitled his book “The Realist Case”? More like “The Nut Case”.
Unite to save the world while holding your nose and lose freedom is a shuck N jive way of deception.
When was anyone thinking of global warming or climate change when those famous politicians and writers were alive?
Who cares what their philosophy of life was enough to change our way of life. It is the founders of this country and the founding documents that count for a good life, not socialism and all its vices.
A democratic president said the constitution is too limiting. The founders viewed it as limiting government and limiting the abuse of government on the people.
I constantly go back and re-read Terence Corcoran’s words in the NATIONAL POST (Canada) from many years ago, regarding the Kyoto Protocol that began this idiocy. They are still true.
‘Politicians in general, live in another world. We have calls for action that might not work, to achieve ends that cannot be achieved, to meet a threat that might not exist.’
And I can add…. ‘concerning a subject they know absolutely nothing about’.
At least they’re not even trying to pretend this isn’t about socialism anymore.
Nationalism and Socialism, make it simple :
The Guardian is pushing NAZI propaganda.
Nothing else.
Also nothing new
Things are getting pretty messy with contemporary politics. One of the things that concerns me is that we should give a damn about our people, but socialism just hasn’t worked in history. It doesn’t really suit human nature – you work hard, you deserve the reward for it. But it feels like our society should have more social rewards for people who do good for their community. In Ancient Greece, the rich would often pay for renovations, theatre performances, parks, etc for the entire community, but it was viewed as an honour! Why can’t we get back to that?
If someone in the UK stepped up and fixed the major homeless issue we’re facing, that person would have my respect for life, and I’d feel far more inclined to actually trust them in local elections or to help them out if they needed a favour. If their job is something demanding, that required a lot of training and dedication, I would naturally expect them to be paid more than me because they worked for it!
“New Nationalism” is Required to Drive Solidarity and Acceptance of Climate Action”
Yes sir, of course but this kind of nationalism is not new.
It has always been needed since time immemorial for driving solidarity in the acceptance of a noble cause.
https://tambonthongchai.com/2020/03/15/noaas-ark/
Funny I thought that the Liberals were bashing President Trump over their feared view of his perceived Nationalistic tendencies
Patriotism, from the Graun… 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Rally round the red and gold—hammer and sickle flag beloved by the Grauniad. All you naysayers who badmouth glorious socialism refuse to recognize that true socialism has never been tried. Capitalist imposters like Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and Pol Pot won’t trick our brilliant younger generation into abandoning the hope of humankind.
These climate changers are getting desperate for attention now Covid19 has blown them off the airwaves.
A bit hard to compete with your regurgitated tipping point bogeyman in another 10 years time when there’s a real bogeyman here and now. I suppose it makes sense for leftys to give the old National Socialism a belting again if the deplorables don’t like the look of their current commies.
One thing with a good old fashioned pandemic it could shake belief in Big Gummint to wipe asses all the time if it hasn’t already. Seems their coddled snowflakes are pooping themselves everywhere if the run on toilet paper is any guide. Don’t ass what your Gummint can doodoo for you but what you can doodoo yourself.
I await the “science” that claims the current Wuhan flu pandemic was caused by or made worse by “climate change”, You know it’s coming.
Ironically current medical experts expect it to actually diminish with the warm summer weather. 😀
It seems that the climate crusaders think that “climate action” will somehow ‘soak the rich’ and also that the crusaders themselves will never have to give up any luxuries or be at all inconvenienced, because it will come from the top down and energy will simply start being “green” in a smooth, seamless transition. Crazies.
So they want National Socialism?
Don’t know much history, I guess.
My advice to all remains the same, never click on any article from the Guardian, do not give them any click count that will boost their numbers and aid their advertising efforts.
The Guardian is the modern day Pravda of the West. Its contributors are so brainwashed they now come out with anything, no matter how crazy it might be, so long as they believe it will further their misplaced beliefs.
Never forget, the Guardian gives people as mixed up and downright barmy as George Monbiot column inches.
Don’t even go there.
So here we go again. Spending their effort trying to sell the scam instead of actually doing science to validate their claims. It’s really all they’ve got! They have tried one tactic after another to try and convince us that we’re all going to die if we don’t revert to living in mud huts and the people have not bought it and aren’t going to! The weak give it lip service but are unwilling to sacrifice and will remain so until the day comes that at least some of the multitude of disaster prophesies they’ve claimed actually come to pass. And yet the globalists/ socialists continue to try and sell their snake oil. They are so pathetic.
The farce is strong in this one….
Same old same old.
These people convince themselves that they hold some high moral virtues for the improvement of the human condition. In practice they believe in nothing, other than doing and saying whatever is necessary to gain power.
World War I gave Woodrow Wilson all the excuses he needed to crack down on individual and economic freedoms. So too did the Greate Depression for Franklin Roosevelt. America has never been as close to full-blown authoritarian rule as those times.
Authoritarians: Always looking for a reason.
Well, the usual question.
Do they think a New Nationalism (with Chinese characteristics) is required? Or is this New Nationalism confined to the West, and probably to the UK and US.
In short, is it directed at those doing 75% and rising of the emissions they are so worried about? Or is their worry confined to the emissions from those doing 25% and falling?
The Guardian keeps proclaiming it is a European and not simply British or English medium. But when you come down to it, its reads like the Board still think it is 1910 and Britain is the main economic power and driver of world events. Because never do you find any acknowledgment of the fact that Britain now is a small island off the coast of Europe, doing a few hundred thousand tons a year of CO2 emissions, in a world that’s doing 37 billion and rising.
And its a country that no-one is watching or listening to. The G needs to get a grip on the fact that Britain cannot lead the world or set an example. Its not 1910, guys. Believe me, that was 100 years ago. Please wake up!
They are more stuck in the past than the Telegraph, by far.
Sorry, the UK actually does of course 450 million tons out of the world total of 37 billion. Same point applies. Should have said a few hundred million. Reach of fingers exceeded attention span of brain…
Talking to a local in an English pub he said that he had been coming to this pub for 35 years, if he brought a guardian news paper inside it would be his last visit.
A local newsagent in Bude offered me a free copy of The Observer if I bought the Saturday Graun. I replied that I never bought either. He laughed and told me he literally couldn’t give the paper away. No one is buying the Graun these days, apart from the BBC.