Thugs bully Munich Conference Center – Force Cancellation of Climate Skeptic Conference

Reprinted with permission from No Tricks Zone

Just like the 1030s, and again Munich. There’s no question that freedom of science and speech are under heavy attack in Germany after dozens of distinguished but dissenting scientists have seen their long planned science conference cancelled due to intimidation by leftwing extremists.

Germany caving in to leftist extremists. A skeptic climate conference gets cancelled at last minute due to coercion. Image: Antifa action in Phoenix, 2017, cropped from Carptrash – I, Einar Kvaran, License: CC BY-SA 4.0

This latest climate conference cancellation comes just after leftists coerced the University of Hamburg to disinvite political leaders from making speeches.

The same has also just occurred at the famed University of Göttingen.

The problem of suppressing open discussion has deteriorated to such an extent across Germany over the recent years that even according to leftist Spiegel 75% of journalists and writers are “very concerned” or “somewhat concerned” about the state of free speech in Germany!

Free speech in Germany is in state of crisis.

Munich NH Congress Center bullied, cancels at last minute

The latest free speech suppression and intimidation has unfolded in Munich: The 13th International Climate and Energy Conference, sponsored by the European Institute for Climate and Energy (EIKE) and CFACT, has seen its contractual agreement torn up, and was booted out of the conference facility at the last minute.

Pressured by “left-green mob”

According to EIKE spokesman, Prof. Horst-Joachim Lüdecke, “a left-green mob” pressured the hotel management of the NH Congress Center in Munich(Aschheim) “to illegally cancel the accommodation contract”. EIKE went to court and demanded revocation of the termination in an emergency motion. However, today a Bavarian court just ruled in favor of the conference center, citing “security reasons”.

EIKE is a non-profit organization like the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research (PIK). The Jena-Germany based EIKE plans every year a scientific conference on current climate and energy topics. This year it was planned to take place on November 22nd in Munich. But now its attendees will have to make new last minute plans.

More than 200 scientists and attendees had booked, many paid

More than 200 international scientists and experts had long since booked and paid for their travels, as well as their hotels. Many of them in the conference hotel NH Congress Center. Some of them were planned to come from overseas, the USA, Canada and Australia. Media representatives also asked to be accredited, this year much more than usual.

Distinguished scientists were to appear

But the problem is that the 13th International Climate and Energy Conference is one that allows alternative – NON-ALARMIST – views on climate science to be presented, for example by distinguished scientists such as astrophysicists Nir Shaviv of Israel and Prof. Henrik Svensmark of Denmark. More than a dozen were slated to speak.

Antifa intimidates NH Conference Center

However, this open scientific discussion was too much to take for the far left-green Antifa and other like-minded radical organizations. This time they really mobilized against the “climate change deniers”.

At its Facebook site the radical leftwing Antifa organization recently called on its followers to take aim at the Munich NH Congress Center for hosting the EIKE event, posting at its site the following comic image:

Antifa posting: “Strike against EIKE! Put the heat on climate deniers!”

EIKE has published scientific works and peer-reviewed publications and is involved in the promotion of scientific education. The conference was intended to continue extend this work.

The agreement to host the conference at the NH Congress Center Munich was duly signed by both parties already back in May and was followed shortly afterwards by a “substantial down payment”, according to EIKE. Everything was settled. Then came the science brownshirts.

Mob descends on NH hotel, disturbed guests, staff

The initial spark setting off the protest of the NH Congress Center Munich (Aschheim) hosting the EIKE climate conference was launched by editor Paul Gäbler of the Berliner Tagesspiegel, who publicly slandered EIKE as an “AfD-near climate denier think tank”. The AfD is Germany’s new and growing right party that has has been surging in recent polls and elections nationwide. It’s the only party in Germany that challenges alarmist climate science and acknowledges natural climate drivers.

Journalistic intimidation

In September Gäbler called the management of the NH conference hotel and asked if the positions of EIKE were known to them.” At first NH management declined to comment, but “journalist” Gäbler persisted and the NH caved in, issuing a delcaration: “Denial of man-made climate change is not compatible with the values of the NH hotel group.” and said it would review the matter.

Mob descends on the conference facility, management caves

But it remained quiet for a while. Requests by EIKE as to whether the accommodation contract was endangered remained unanswered on the part of the NH management in Berlin. But then NH management panicked after Munich Antifa and auxiliary groups from the environmental scene mobilized. On November 9th, a mob of 15-20 people appeared inside the hotel and disturbed guests and employees.

They mixed in with the guests in the lobby and distributed a flyer to employees and guests, announcing further activities in case the conference took place.

According to the hotel management of the NH Congress Center in Munich-Ost (Aschheim), they apparently “forced” them to cave in “by singing songs and distributing leaflets”.

NH Munich Conference Center gets a hate letter

At the same time, an open letter from the Munich Environmental Institute was sent to the NH Munich Conference Center management demanding they not make conference rooms available to EIKE.

The letter begins by telling the NH Munich Conference Center how influential the Institute fancies itself to be, and claims “EIKE denies man-made climate change and is trying to influence political parties and public opinion.”

The letter ends by demanding the NH Munich Conference Center management  “not provide the climate change deniers any space.”

“Please disinvite EIKE.”

Thus the NH management terminated the contract (in spite of the previously granted contract extension) due to a perceived “danger to its guests and employees.”

Big win for violent radicals, loss for free speech

The Berliner Tagesspiegel (TS) reported triumphantly at the news: “NH hotel group disinvites EIKE, climate change deniers have to find a new venue,” was the triumphant headline in the leftist Tagesspiegel.

“This is comparable to the behaviour of arsonists who first set a fire and then proudly report about it,” commented EIKE.

German court green lights coercion, suppression of speech

All attempts by the EIKE Board to avert the contract cancellation, which was demonstrably based on defamation and lies, did not alter the NH Conference Center decision. EIKE took immediate legal action against this, hiring well-known law firm Steinhöfel, but to no avail. The conference is cancelled.

German rule of law is failing

At its site, EIKE called the coercion and intimidation to force NH to shirk its contractual obligations a “particularly serious case of coercion and blackmail for the suppression of scientific facts.”

“If the rule of law still works in this country, the court should make a decision in our favour,” EIKE wrote.

No longer a constitutional state

With that, the German court has de facto ruled it can no longer protect and uphold the rights of persons to dissent and to speak freely. The court ruling sends a dangerous signal to radical leftwing organizations that it’s open season on dissenters.

EIKE writes that all hotels and conference centers throughout Germany “are already so afraid of Antifa and their thugs, as well as their green auxiliary troops, that they have no more confidence in the protection by our constitutional state. This makes them willing opportunists. A constitutional state that allows this is no longer a constitutional state.”

On the brink of leftist anarchy

The last minute, sudden cancellation by the Munich NH also results in hefty damages to a number of parties involved in the conference. “Travel expenses have now been spent in vain,” EIKE says. “Perhaps the NH-Conference Center would even come to its senses, recall the rule of law and bring charges against the Antifa (Unknown).”

Caving in to extreme leftist pressure sends the wrong signal, EIKE warns. “The reputation to have given way to the pressure of the street will perhaps deter more future visitors of the NH Conference Center than visitors who have apparently forgotten where it leads if fascists of all colours, whether left, green or brown, are not fought with all means of our constitutional state and immediately brought before the judge.”

Advertisements

210 thoughts on “Thugs bully Munich Conference Center – Force Cancellation of Climate Skeptic Conference

    • The Munich event is beyond comprehension.
      My own very well educated 63 year old sister refused to look at WUWT’s website this weekend, because “the science is settled”.
      And just last night, my perpetually good-looking bachelor buddy invited his spectacular 20-years-his -junior date for dinner to accompany my wife and I.
      I made the mistake of bringing up the topic of CAGW. After 30 seconds of civil conversation, she departed, shouting over her shoulder. “You can’t cure stupid!”
      She was right. You can’t.

      I don’t have a lot of time left at my age, but I’d like to soon see an end to this lunacy.

      • Yes, I have seen similar examples of this vehemence from CAGW disciples towards those of us who aren’t buying the full package.

        Even if a person accepts the human fingerprints in climate behaviour, but just doesn’t see any way that wind & solar can meet society’s electricity needs at any time now or in the future, they will cop a full-on attack from the disciples.

        Here’s another way of considering this divisive situation –
        if the cagw disciples were so sure of the provenance of their hypothesis, they would not be at all troubled by the existence of non-believers. They would just get on with promoting what they think should be done, and their virtuous propositions would be so self-evident that all civilization would naturally follow them.
        Why do they need to proselytize?
        Could it be that deep-down they have some misgivings themselves?

      • Sorry Peter, but with the likes of Nick Stokes this will go on for a while. He has pushed all of his chips in 🙁

      • The Pope also refused to look through Galileo’s telescope because the science was settled. ‘Eppur si muove’ Galileo told him, meaning the planets still move.

      • I have had some similar experiences.
        One of my wife’s friends, over coffee, referring to the CAGW issue, “that’s just not up for discussion”. Instant shut-down.
        No-one is prepared to even consider that an explanation of the opposing view should be granted a hearing. I don’t understand that fear, but I suspect that it’s due to the emotional investment.
        We have an election looming here in the UK, and the watermelons (Green Party) pledge to eliminate fossil fuel usage by 2030, in a virtue signalling bidding war with the major parties.
        I made the mistake of mocking the idea, only to be reprimanded : “they have some ideas that need to be listened to…” so I dropped the subject in the interests of work-place peace and civility.
        At home, I’m requested not to raise the issue amongst friends, as my difference of opinion embarrasses my wife. I’m allowed to respond, but not to start that conversation.
        So we have self-censorship, social opprobrium/anxiety, and now direct intimidation.
        The disinterested pursuit of knowledge that science is supposed to be is long gone.
        Now we have fanatical ideologues, who can’t be reasoned with, mixed with ‘left wing’ (for want of a better term) anarchist permanent protester types.
        What a mess. Edmund Burke , as quoted elsewhere on this thread, was right.
        I might have to break a lifetime’s habit and join an organisation dedicated to trying to stop this madness, if I could just find the right one…..

        • sonofametman

          It has been my experience that the kind of behavior you have described is driven by fear. Fear that they won’t be able to defend their belief. Or, worse yet, fear that they will have to face the reality that their beliefs are wrong. If they had nothing to lose, they would not object to discussing the points in a detached manner. It is clear that they are frightened of the possible outcome.

          • It’s not necessary to win an argument or convince people, but planting a seed of doubt could be vital. I’ve had some success by focusing on one small thing: the existence of weather stations that show a cooling trend, right next to stations that have warming trends.

            I’ve been looking at the NOAA v4 GHCN Monthly summaries: 27,353 stations in all, but the data is pretty sparse. There are only 2879 stations that show a warming trend, and 383 that show a flat or cooling trend.

            The simple point I make is, how, if CO2 is covering the Earth like a blanket, trapping warmth , how can there be 10 percent of all the stations on Earth showing a distinct warming trend, many right next to those showing a warming trend?

            It’s a simple point, but I think it’s important: it’s only in the average that the Earth is warming. There are more warming than cooling, so all the means show warming — but how do you get a 30-year flat or negative trend right next to a warming trend? How does CO2 theory account for that?

        • You don’t have to argue. Just ask them a few questions:

          Do you know how much the global average temperature has risen over the last hundred years? (1° C)

          Do you know what the long term temperature trend is since satellites started measuring it in 1979? (0.13° C per decade, or 1.3° per century)

          Do you know how much global average temperature has increased in the last 20 years (since the big El Niño of 1998)? (0.12° C, a trend of 0.06° C per decade, half the long-term trend from 1979 to the present)

          Do you know what the global average rate of sea level rise is? (3.1 mm/yr)

          Do you know if sea level rise is accelerating? (It isn’t. In fact it has slowed slightly over the last few years.)

          Do you know which RCP scenario we’re on track for, if temperature and sea level trends stay about the same? (RCP2.6, the most benign projection, typically touted as achievable only by a massive, globally-united effort to reduce CO2 emissions so that total global emissions begin to decline in 2020)

          Do you know that the U.S. has reduced CO2 emissions more than any other country over the last decade? (Mostly thanks to technology; fracking has increased use of natural gas, consumer products are constantly becoming more energy efficient.)

          Just let them mull over the facts and try not to smirk. Adopt an avuncular, thoughtful facade, and walk away.

          • IMO Earth has warmed less than a degree C and average MSL has risen fewer than three millimeters per year over the past century.

            But close enough for government work.

            Earth cooled dramaticallt from the 1940s until 1977, despite rising CO2. Then it warmed slightly until the 1998 super El Nino, again under increasing CO2. Since then, average global temperature stayed flat, in spite of still steady or accelerating gains in our air’s beneficial plant food supply.

        • I might have to break a lifetime’s habit and join an organisation dedicated to trying to stop this madness, if I could just find the right one…..

          I feel the same way, I’ve never ‘done’ politics in my life but now I honestly think we need to fight back. Everywhere you go- even in our small village- you’re bombarded constantly with this hysteria. We’ve got lunatics taking over local magazines and meetings, telling us how to make our own non toxic cleaning products and re-wild our gardens because birds are having such a tough time(!). My nieces are taught about climate change in every lesson at school- even English. I travel to London for a nice weekend and get called a Nazi because I won’t sign something and ask to be left alone. We need to start making counter- accusations and asking awkward questions like, ‘How many millions of people will you allow to freeze/starve?’, ‘How many diseases will you allow to flourish?’, ‘How many countries will you prevent from industrializing and thus earning their way out of poverty?’, How much of the world’s wealth will you divert?’, ‘How much technology will you repress which could otherwise solve so many of the problems we face?’ All of these things can be addressed with modern technology, science and engineering but these fools want us to return to the stone age. Like you, I am pressured into keeping quiet so as not to upset everyone and cause embarrassment while these quasi-religious zealots scream from the rooftops. We need to fight back.

        • sonofametman

          My tactic is never to discuss CAGW with people. I might broach the subject casually, then I just ask them questions, more and more questions.

          A good one is ‘to ask innocently “what do you think’s better for humans, a warmer or colder planet?” They usually go off on one about deserts and failing crops etc. I then casually mention the 50,000 Excess wither deaths in the UK during the winter of 2017/2018 and something like “I wonder about that, does anyone know if summer deaths are worse in hot countries”……….”Of course they are!!!” comes the usual reply.

          Usually flicking through my phone at the time I ‘conveniently find’ the Indian deaths during the ‘unprecedented’ heatwave of 2017, (222) show it to them and say “that surely can’t be right can it?”

          Gee, just dumb old HotScot asking questions of my scientifically superior (Ahem) unqualified acquaintances.

          Then when they get the hump I look innocently around everyone else saying “I’m only asking questions”. 🙂

        • My favorite ever was listening to someone in a bar talking about CO2 pollution.. whilst sipping on a carbonated beverage.. oh, and breathing out of course

      • Ask an alarmist why they believe the same ‘elites’ who caused the world’s problems in the first place will solve them with their 17 goals of sustainable development?; and ask them if they really believe said ‘elites’ will give up their mansions, yachts, private jets, fleets of limos & summer homes by the ‘rising sea’?; and if they know the ‘elites’ top priority is depopulation?; and if they know that Big Oil is on board the fraud & that the Koch Bros are a mid-level red herring?; and ask them ‘where’s the evidence that carbon dioxide is warming the planet? And ‘where’s the evidence that it’s a consensus?’ There is NO evidence of course, only endless repetition of the claim. Ask them if they’re familiar with the ‘big lie’? And if they know that ZERO carbon = DEATH. [so ha ha ha the depop joke’s on you] And if they know that AGW is based entirely on computer models by climate [cough] scientists caught plotting to ‘hide the decline’ in temperatures and blacklist all skeptics; and if they know the climate [cough] scientists of East Anglia have made BILLIONS devising the fraud; and if they believed the media when it said Climategate was a nothingbugburger; Ask them if they’d like to see actual evidence of the Solar Minimum so they know what actual evidence looks like.

        Alarmists are like credulous children who believe smiling villains who promise them a green unicorn if they help kill the big bad carbon monster.

        • Along the same lines, rather than a technical discussion of warming rates, sea level rise etc, point out that Obama clearly does not believe in Climate Change. If he did, why would he spend $15 million on a house at sea level that will soon be engulfed by rising sea levels?

    • From the photos, it appears that the Brownshirts have chosen black and red shirts as the color scheme for the Fourth Reich.

      • soon they’ll be adding a geometrical figure and an ancient religious icon in the cultures of Eurasia that is used as a symbol of divinity and spirituality in Indian religions.

      • Black and red is associated with Antifa and other anarcho-communist groups. You can google the flag colour combinations to see the interpretations. Red over black is different to black over red, for example. Just like genders on Facebook, there’s lots of weird and wonderful combinations now. Mostly they are the idiots.

    • When we’ve finally gotten serious about the global warming scam, when the impacts are really hitting us and we’re in a full worldwide scramble to minimize the damage, and we have war crimes trials for these basterds—some sort of climate Nuremberg—we’re going to look back and say:

      We should have stopped them at Munich.

      • Yes Brad, there are some succinct lessons from the characters like Clemenza in The Godfather.
        But stopping them at Munich would be “just business” after all.

      • Brad Keyes November 19, 2019 at 1:57 pm

        Well at least they winged Herman G.
        by the way have you ever been to the “beer Hall”? All I got was one of the super-sized glass mugs.

        michael

      • My prediction is for full-scale civil insurrection once the extremists have their hands on the levers of power. Nothing will infuriate the population more than to be deprived of their cars, central heating, electricity and so forth.

      • Brad Keyes

        The Jewish Chronicle in the UK published an article a few weeks back stating that 85% of normally loyal socialist Jews would not be voting for Jeremy Corbyn in the General Election because they genuinely feared for their safety.

        A significant percentage of them stated they would flee the country if he’s elected Prime Minister.

        Judging by that communities uncanny ability to sense persecution, I think everyone in the UK should be very concerned about the self proclaimed Marxist and overtly IRA and Hamas supporting Jeremy Corbyn ever achieving power here.

    • Rule of Law has apparently ceased in Germany, and is at risk elsewhere as well. Violent thugs roam at will. Public cowardice and deceit has not served Germany well – now or in the past.

      Consider the reprehensible events on New Year’s Eve ~four years ago in Cologne and other German cities. German police failed to control the situation and the German government and media suppressed the stories for days afterwards – disgraceful cowardice by all involved.

      It is long past time to get tough with all manner of thugs in all countries. Otherwise, why employ the police at all? Are the police just here to harass law-abiding citizens for minor infractions, or what?

      What are the police actually doing to put these thugs in jail? Do your job or get out of the way!

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_New_Year%27s_Eve_sexual_assaults_in_Germany

      During the 2015/2016 New Year’s Eve celebrations, there were mass sexual assaults, 24 alleged rapes and numerous thefts in Germany, mainly in Cologne city center. There were similar incidents at the public celebrations in Hamburg, Dortmund, Düsseldorf, Stuttgart, Bielefeld and Frankfurt. For all of Germany, police estimated in a document leaked in 2016 that 1,200 women were sexually assaulted and that at least 2,000 men were involved, often acting in groups.

      • I have great faith in my fellow law-abiding citizens to do the right thing.

        Doesn’t Germany have some notable football clubs? FC Bayern Munich and all?

        My suggestion is:
        Organize the young fans of these football clubs to keep the peace in German cities. The police are obviously are not up to the task.

        The good people of Canning Town showed admirable restraint in dealing with the XR thugs, especially considering one of the XR cowards kicked one of the locals in the face.

        My new fav video – go Canning Town!
        https://youtu.be/9P1UXYS6Bmg

        • I was in Berlin a little over 3 weeks ago.

          No sign of violence, intimidation or crime on its clean and orderly streets, even late in the night: the groups of young people in the public squares like Alexanderplatz were notably non threatening and the atmosphere was quite unlike a Saturday night in any UK city.

          • What’s really sad is that griff actually believes his little anecdote, even if true, actually refutes the claims being made.

          • I know Berlin, having been there many times. This is about my first visit, in July 1989.
            Berlin, especially East Berlin, is much improved since then.

            https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/01/09/hewlett-packard-report-includes-planned-penal-colonies-for-climate-skeptics/#comment-2254514

            In July of 1989 I entered East Berlin and East Germany through Checkpoint Charlie. The dreaded communist Honecker regime was still in power then; it was just four months before the Wall fell.

            I wrote the following long ago and I didn’t keep track of dates then – probably about 2010.

            THIS FEARFUL, REPRESSIVE SCENARIO IS WHAT THE LEFTISTS WANT FOR AMERICA.
            ____________________________

            I had the privilege and misfortune of travelling into East Germany in July of 1989, just before the fall of the Berlin Wall.

            We were on a business mission to West Germany, and somehow our bosses had committed us at the last minute to a brief detour into the East.

            One of our group refused to go, saying it was a despicable totalitarian sh!thole, so we agreed to meet him in Cologne.

            We flew to Tegel airport in West Berlin, and were escorted by a Stasi driver though West Berlin. It was Friday night, and West Berlin looked exciting, electric..

            We travelled though the Berlin Wall at Checkpoint Charlie, and the world changed. I had been sitting in the front seat beside the driver snapping photos, but when I tried to take one of the East German checkpoint, I felt resistance as I tried to lift my camera. The Stasi driver’s hand was on my camera holding it down, even as he looked the other way, talking through his window to the East German border guard.

            We took a sharp left and then a sharp right onto the main street, called Unter den Linden. The majestic Brandenburg Gate was visible just behind us. As we passed the Reichstag, I lifted my camera to snap a picture. The driver stopped quickly to assist my photo, and it was suddenly obvious that there were no other vehicles on the street, and no pedestrians either.

            We stayed at the Metropol Hotel that first night, and went for a walk after dinner. I had asked my dinner hosts if I could go for a jog in the morning, and was cautioned that “We do not jog in East Berlin” I then asked if I could go for a long walk, and was assured, with a telling look, “You can walk anywhere in East Berlin – you will be perfectly safe, not like your London and New York”.

            We soon found out what he meant – every block had eight small kiosks staffed with police, two on each side of the street. At any time we were within easy view of perhaps ten such police posts. Again, we were the only people on the street. The police talked quietly with each other on their telephones, and seemed to know that we were no cause for alarm. Their primary job to prevent any attempts by East Germans to defect to the Western embassies located on Unter den Linden.

            In our brief stay, we visited a mine to view some equipment, had interminable meetings in a very hot room, learned that the local cola beverage was called Prik Cola, and found that our business colleagues in East Germany were pretty human, much like ourselves.

            I also had sufficient liberty to get away from our group, and was able to observe that East German infrastructure was crumbling, the roads, buildings, sewage systems, cars, trains, heavy equipment, electrics, electronics, etc. etc. etc. were fifty years out-of-date and falling apart. Environmental degradation by industry was severe and disgusting.

            More significantly, the East German people were a fearful lot – frightened to death of me, lest someone think they were communicating with me and report them to the dreaded Stasi. Those condemned to the Stasi, and there were many, would lose their jobs and could wind up in prison – their lives would be ruined.

            My friend was right – East Germany was a vicious totalitarian state, and worse. We all decided that we had seen enough, and agreed to leave a day early.

            We took a taxi to the Wall, and negotiated our way through Checkpoint Charlie again, this time without the assistance of our Stasi driver, and spent the extra day walking around West Berlin.

            We saw a memorial to those who had been killed trying to escape through the Wall. The last death took place a few months earlier in February 1989, when Chris Gueffroy died trying to escape into West Berlin. Gueffroy was hit in the chest by ten shots and died in the border strip. He was 20 years old.

            Several months later the Wall fell, and I stayed up all night watching the celebrations on CNN.

            Now that was a good day!

            Epilogue:

            I recall our Canadian NDP leaders extolling the virtues of East Germany to the Canadian public, and their stories being dutifully reported by the Canadian press – how East Germany was the “Economic Engine of the Soviet Union”, “The Workers’ Paradise”, and all that other BS. I shall never forgive the Canadian left for these self-serving lies, and I will never believe a word they say.

            A few years later, I was back in Berlin on another business trip. Although I no longer jogged, I walked to the Brandenburg Gate. Then, I broke into a slow jog, and ambled my way through the Brandenburg Gate and down Unter den Linden.

            You see, now, we do jog in East Berlin.
            ________________________________________

          • Alexanderplatz offers nothing to young people and isn’t Berlin, it’s only one place completey new rebuild in a million people city in a “new” part of Berlin and doesn’t represent Berlin at all.
            If you want to see an atmosphere like in an UK city you have been at the wrongest place ever 😀

          • For the record, I know many Muslims, largely through my years in the international energy industry. I had a company in Egypt, and have spent much time in Tunisia. I also met Libyans during the hot war there, when many of them fled to Tunis with their families to escape the fighting. I also ran a large project in a Muslim part of the Former Soviet Union. I have also visited SE Asia where Muslims form a large minority. I have Islamic friends in Canada and the USA.

            Most Muslims just want to be left alone, to live and let live and to raise their families in peace and freedom – much like the rest of us.

            To characterize all Muslims as similar to their thuggish and terrorist elements is like characterizing all Christians as similar to violent and terrorist elements such as the KKK. Neither characterization is accurate or fair.

            The failure of (especially leftist) governments to clamp down on extremist elements within their societies is typical of the intellectual and ethical failures of such governments – and these governments and their societies reap violence and extremism, because they failed in their most essential duty – to maintain Rule of Law.

            These weak, feeble-minded governments like Germany, France and the UK tend to reward extreme behaviour – it is not surprising that they get more of the same.

          • A most interesting account Allan…

            There is now a DDR museum, which fascinatingly recreates East German life (and oppression) and points out clearly that communist economics were always doomed to failure.

          • @griff

            There is now a DDR museum, which fascinatingly recreates East German life (and oppression) and points out clearly that communist economics were always doomed to failure.

            But you know, history is always writen by the winner 😀

      • That the 2015/16 rape fest was not covered in the media is unsurprising because it was perpetrated by Muslims. Even you failed to mention it, probably out of fear.

        • Eugene Lynx – is that even your real name? Fear is not my problem. If it was, I would not have cited the events in Cologne.

          The cowardice and deceit of elected officials and the police is of great concern – there is no longer Rule of Law in Germany, London, etc. The thugs are in control.

          The following Mazeppa sour gas story illustrates how I dealt with allegedly violent foreign gangsters operating in Calgary.

          I also successfully managed two armed hostage crises in the Former Soviet Union, where my people were held at gunpoint. In those two cases, I did not call in the authorities, but dealt with it myself.

          I’ve done business on six continents, sometimes in difficult, dangerous circumstances. It’s been interesting, certainly not boring, and I’m still here.

          Too many people are afraid of everything. Everybody dies. Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.
          _______________________

          THE MAZEPPA SOUR GAS STORY

          I received an award in 2018 from the Society of Petroleum Engineers (SPE) for averting a potential major sour gas disaster in SE Calgary.

          The new foreign owners of the Mazeppa project were producing 40% H2S critical sour gas within one mile of populous SE Calgary suburbs and had ceased the required monthly injection of anti-corrosion chemicals into the pipelines seven months earlier, which was extremely dangerous.

          Fortunately, I was familiar with the project from decades ago (I was GM of Engineering for a company that formerly owned this project and about 20 others), and someone called me with this vital information. The remarkable coincidence is my confidential informant did not know of my history with this project – he just wanted to talk to someone about his concerns.

          The staff at the project were afraid to report the dangerous situation because they feared physical retaliation from the foreign owners, who they believed were violent thugs.

          H2S is heavier than air and hugs the ground, and less than 0.1% is instantly fatal. I investigated, reported the matter, followed-up and it was made safe. I later learned that some of the critical sour gas pipelines had already experienced minor perforations and leaks.

          A safety study done in 2005 estimate the kill radius at 15km, so potential loss of life in a major discharge of H2S in 2016 could have totaled up to 300,000 people, wiping out the SE quadrant of Calgary.

          The reprimand by the Alberta Energy Regulator against the foreign owners is the most severe in Alberta history.

          – Allan MacRae
          _____________________________________

          SELECTED REFERENCES TO THE MAZEPPA SOUR GAS THREAT
          The reporters got a few minor facts wrong – but no matter.

          A. AER SUSPENDS MAZEPPA PLANT OPERATIONS AMID CONCERNS
          High River Times, August 27, 2016
          Previously at http://www.highrivertimes.com/2016/08/25/aer-suspends-mazeppa-plant-operations-amid-concerns

          B. WATCHDOG TAKES UNPRECEDENTED STEP OF FORCING OIL AND GAS PRODUCER INTO RECEIVERSHIP
          Calgary Herald, March 21, 2017
          http://calgaryherald.com/business/energy/watchdog-takes-unprecedented-step-of-forcing-oil-and-gas-producer-into-receivership

          C. LEXIN RESOURCES AND THE DARK SIDE OF ALBERTA’S DOWNTURN
          CBC, April 24, 2017
          http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/lexin-resources-what-went-wrong-1.4038838

          D. IN REVERSAL, LEXIN ADMITS TO BREAKING ENVIRONMENTAL, INDUSTRY RULES
          Calgary Herald. July 10, 2017
          http://calgaryherald.com/business/energy/lexin-agrees-it-breached-environmental-industry-rules

          E. ERCB DECISION 2005-060 RE COMPTON PETROLEUM CORP. APPLICATION TO DRILL SIX CRITICAL SOUR GAS WELLS – SE Calgary area 22 June 2001
          http://elc.ab.ca/Content_Files/Files/NewsBriefs/EUBgiveconditionalgreenlight-Vol20-3.pdf
          _________________________________

        • and the same is ongoing in Sweden
          and again its likely to end up in the person simply mentioning that its muslims doing it was enough to have a grandmother arrested and jailed for hate speeech
          for telling the exact truthful facts.

          we are having similar crap happening in Aus
          gangs of sudanese and other recently emigrated/illegal( but got by the immig due to bleedingheart lawyers working against the good of thenation).. majority are Muslims but media and anyone else isnt supposed to mention race or religion.
          the only race or religions that CAN be pilloried or made fun of are caucasians and the christians.

      • In the US all the Antifa garbage has happened in liberal cities. If they ever come to the heartland, many of them will never return home. That’s the beauty of the 2nd Amendment. You folks who aren’t from the US should read the Bill of Rights in the US Constitution. It is a nice list of government behaviors which are disallowed. The states would not ratify the Constitution until these Amendments were included because they had just been through the oppression of King George and wanted to ensure that the citizens of the US would be a free citizenry.

  1. Domestic Terrorism
    do·mes·tic ter·ror·ism: noun – the committing of terrorist acts in the perpetrator’s own country against their fellow citizens.

    Organized mobs trespassing while making threats against innocent citizens, intimidating threats that change policies and behavior, is definitely terrorism.

    • So get smarter. Instead of meetings and conferences, Skype or use other online networks to pool and discuss information. If CAGW really WAS a “thing,” we’d all be having to learn to do this anyway. Skip the miserable airplanes, crappy food, bedbugs in the hotels, and use strong encryption to do your thing instead of being a highly publicized, obvious target standing on the ridgeline.

    • “definitely terrorism”

      As tempting as it is to dismiss Gator’s language as hyperbole, we should read this paragraph twice…

      EIKE writes that all hotels and conference centers throughout Germany “are already so afraid of Antifa and their thugs, as well as their green auxiliary troops, that they have no more confidence in the protection by our constitutional state. This makes them willing opportunists. A constitutional state that allows this is no longer a constitutional state.”

      …in light of the strategic logic which all terrorism has in common: to make people lose faith in the power of their own government to protect them.

  2. When people make threats like this your have to threaten their lives back.

    Bullies are always cowards.

    When I heard about ER hunger strikes I said ‘Let them starve’. Why? Emotional blackmail. They have no case, they are just raving left wing nutcases craving attention.

    They will soon stop when they know they will be left to die from their own free will….

    If there is any violence threatened by these left wingers, give them social violence back. Tie them up with ropes, tie them to trees and leave them out exposed for a few winter nights. They will soon learn what cold feels like….

  3. Why do this in Germany? Why not at a university in Texas (other than the one in the People’s Republik of Austin).

        • griff

          Don’t see many Manchester stadium events happening in the US, nor London Bridge, Charlie Hebdo etc.

          • Terrorism is a sad fact of life in the world, yes… but the US has domestic murder by gun on a scale not seen in Europe.

            and if UK terrorists had access to automatic weapons like they would have in the US?

        • If you’ll check, everyone of these attacks happens in a place where guns are not permitted.

          PS: griff’s belief that nobody is violent in the UK and Germany is so darn cute.

    • The way things are going, they may have to do the conference at Hillsdale College or Grove City College. I know of few other American colleges or universities that have avoided this infection of dangerous ideology.

    • May I recommend The Best Little Climate Science Whorehouse in Texas. I believe that would be Lubbock, TX. (“Hey Hoe, hey hoe, it’s off to work we go.”)

    • Because EIKE is a German institute, and they don’t want all the attendees to pay for an two airfares. Getting your millionaire friend to take them on his luxury yact across the Atlantic is not an option you see.

  4. So, the book burning will start soon then?
    Remind me should they smash all the greenhouses before or after the book burning?

    George Orwell said, “In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”

    • “So, the book burning will start soon then?”

      I suspect some warmists already badger libraries into not buuying or holding climate-skeptic books. A survey of libraries’ holdings on the topic would be easy to do online and would no doubt find a great disparity in the warmist direction. HINT!

    • Pretty sure the Munich “beer-hall” putsch was in the 1920’s.

      If you’re going to make a historical reference, you should at least get the history right.

      • nobody mentioned the “beer-hall” putsch. Munich was the Nazi headquarters during 1934’s Night of the long knives (a purge that took place in Nazi Germany from June 30 to July 2, 1934). Hitler even gave a speech (during that 1934 purge) from the Munich headquarters where he told the crowd that “undisciplined and disobedient characters and asocial or diseased elements” would be annihilated. Hess, present among the assembled, even volunteered to shoot the “traitors”. Perhaps, instead of making assumptions, you should take your own advice and “get the history right”

        • Yes, they did. It was referred to several times, in fact, at the beginning of the comments.

          The reference to the Nazi’s attempt to seize power illegally in the 1920’s is consistent with the theme of an article about militant lefties trying to impose their will on the rest of society.

          The article’s theme is not really consistent with Hitler killing off his rivals after he had already gained power legally (sort of) in the 1930’s.

          However, if the radical left ever does gain power (god help us if they do), I’d be willing to bet the members of Antifa will get the same treatment as the SA – annihilation.

          • I meant in the article in which 1030 (a typo for 1930) was made. Nowhere in that article is the beer hall mentioned. Not once. Just assumption on your and a few other commenters part.

  5. Obviously it comes back to the Politicians and legal system. If the law allows this to happen, then change the law.

    This is of course the usual class between so called “”Freedoms”” and the rights of people to do what is considered to be reasonable.

    You cannot please both sides of a issue as to who has the final “”Right””

    It is of course ironical that this has happened in Munich.

    MJE VK5ELL

    • Violence has always been the first response of the left any time someone dares to disagree with them.
      This goes double if that disagreement threatens their supply of free stuff.

      • Very true

        Mind you artificially increasing fossil fuel prices will generally get the majority out on violence regardless of the reason. Have a look at Iran at the moment they increased the petrol price by 50% and President Hassan Rouhani said the government was acting in the public interest, and that the money raised would be distributed to the country’s neediest citizens 🙂

        Obviously President Hassan Rouhani has been reading eco warrior material and it sounded like a winner idea and besides Iran is a Totalitarian regime … what could possibly go wrong.

  6. I suggest that is time to abandon attempting to host any serious science in Germany. It is a real shame, but they are unable to tolerate it.

    • No. it is time to abandon the EU and support those countries that defy the EU/UN attempt of a “one world gooberment” !

  7. Remember the scene in “Dr. Zhvago” where the soldiers beat their officer to death and Alec Guinness’s character mutters, “So it begins”

    It’s beginning – has been for some time actually.

  8. Beer Hall Putsch was in 1923.

    The eponymous Benedictine monastery might have been established as early as AD 1030, but probably later. As noted, the settlement at the toll bridge on the Isar wasn’t mentioned until the next century.

  9. Just move the conference to Hungary. Im sure the hotels and the government there will behave more responsibly. And maybe Wictor Urban could be persuaded to attend.

    • No, have it in the Czech Republic. They strongly support ownership of weapons, pistols, long guns, etc.
      Hoplophobic will remain at a safe distance, and the threat of physical force drastically reduced. Per Robert Heinlein, “An armed society is a polite society. “

    • Funny, but the eastern European countries seem much less radical-leftist. Maybe because they still remember being under the boot-heel of the Soviet-marxists.

  10. Germany is failing economically and with that comes the collapse of the Globalist EU!

    Couldn’t happen to a more deserving bunch of clowns!

  11. The Nazi, Malthusian & racist Darwinian roots of the antihumanist “environmentalist” movement: Merchants Of Despair, a 2013 book by PhD nuclear engineer Robert Zubrin.
    A must read.
    JD.

  12. A note for the Green Brownshirts:

    The ability to predict is the best objective means of measuring scientific and technical competence.

    Note that every one of the scary global warming/climate change predictions by the IPCC and its minions has failed to materialize – they have a 100% failure rate.

    If the IPCC ran your auto repair shop, your car would never leave the garage. If the IPCC was your electrician, your lights would never turn on. If the IPCC was your plumber, your house would be full of water.

    But you are willing to trust these proven incompetents with global energy policy, the very thing that keeps you and your family from freezing and starving to death? OK, it’s your funeral.

    LIST OF 107 FAILED PREDICTIONS OF GLOBAL WARMING/CLIMATE DISASTERS – THAT DID NOT HAPPEN!
    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/04/02/the-big-list-of-failed-climate-predictions/

    MORE FAILED GLOBAL WARMING/CLIMATE/GREEN ENERGY PREDICTIONS
    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/10/30/some-failed-climate-predictions/

    CLIMATE ‘EXPERTS’ ARE 0-41 WITH THEIR DOOMSDAY PREDICTIONS OF GLOBAL WARMING, CLIMATE AND ENERGY
    https://www.breitbart.com/environment/2019/09/20/nolte-climate-experts-are-0-41-with-their-doomsday-predictions/

    • Allan, you poor fellow, they have their fingers stuck in their ears, and – to quote that song from ‘Cabaret’ – the future belongs to them. And look what happened to them after a few years.

    • Compare and contrast with the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights, 1948.

      ___________________________________________
      “Universal Declaration of Human Rights

      Preamble

      Whereas recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world, Whereas disregard and contempt for human rights have resulted in barbarous acts which have outraged the conscience of mankind, and the advent of a world in which human beings shall enjoy freedom of speech and belief and freedom from fear and want has been proclaimed as the highest aspiration of the common people, Whereas it is essential, if man is not to be compelled to have recourse, as a last resort, to rebellion against tyranny and oppression, that human rights should be protected by the rule of law, Whereas it is essential to promote the development of friendly relations between nations, Whereas the peoples of the United Nations have in the Charter reaffirmed their faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person and in the equal rights of men and women and have determined to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom, Whereas Member States have pledged themselves to achieve, in cooperation with the United Nations, the promotion of universal respect for and observance of human rights and fundamental freedoms, Whereas a common understanding of these rights and freedoms is of the greatest importance for the full realization of this pledge,

      Now, therefore, The General Assembly, Proclaims this Universal Declaration of Human Rights as a common standard of achievement for all peoples and all nations, to the end that every individual and every organ of society, keeping this Declaration constantly in mind, shall strive by teaching and education to promote respect for these rights and freedoms and by progressive measures, national and international, to secure their universal and effective recognition and observance, both among the peoples of Member States themselves and among the peoples of territories under their jurisdiction**. … ”

      https://www.ohchr.org/EN/UDHR/Documents/UDHR_Translations/eng.pdf
      ________________________________________________________________________________

      ** Except in cases where the officially adopted infallible UN Global Climate-Religion is being bought into disrepute via a dangerous exercise of peaceful acts of free-speech or the enervating use of actual facts or due to the menace of freedom to associate with one’s peers and the unreasonable exercise of a claimed right of freedom from intimidation, violence or the unjust use of courts to arbitrarily and with cowardice to impede otherwise lawful discussion that may offend our propaganda narratives.

      – Pope António Guterres, Secretary General, United Nations and Defender Of The Infallible IPCC Faith.

  13. Things turn uglier each passing day. No one realizes how close to civil unrest Germany really is as saving accounts deplete and family budgets tighten by the hour. All for nothing.

    • and this is how the Nazi Party got into power, when the alternatives failed .
      Germany is looking more and more like the weimar republic every day

  14. Perhaps the same tactics should be employed at the COP in Spain. Dress just like the ANTIFA Thugs and shut down that conference.

    • The difference is that if you aren’t of the left, the police will shut you down. It’s only left wing threats of violence that is tolerated.

    • No COP must go ahead, I have been waiting for the humor of the reaction when the final Article6 reaches the end of the road. At the last COP the Human Rights junk all got gutted and Article6 was facing the same fate. However a few handout desperados kicked the can down the road to try and save it and the promise of that big money payday.

      World Health Organization will be trying to to bring human rights back in thru a back door mechanism with a rather large medical attribution statistics presentation plea. That will get smashed early on by China directly or via proxy nations because it threatens soverignity. However good humor to watch that all play out.

      Article 6 is going to end up with is countries “encouraged” to assist nations affected by climate change (no formal determination of those nations). It’s likely climate assistance funds provided to those nations will be allowed in some carbon credit trade (good faith used in those claims). Sounds good for nations affected by climate change doesn’t it, developed nations will send money to help and get credits for doing so 🙂

      In that framework however the part where low emission nations can sell credits to high emitters gets very murky because nothing is audited. Lots of countries including China will not allow auditing except by there own agencies. So I suspect the move to get around it will be to have some auditing only on the seller countries by some UN agency.

      Okay so here is the play when that happens

      Each developed country will stop “foreign aide” as so named currently. They will re-label those funds
      climate assistance and claim the credits. So countries will continue to support the developing nations they have always supported for there own political reasons and now get free decrease in there emissions.

      The comedy further continues because lots of low emission countries will think they can sell carbon credits. They will run themselves further into debt to try to meet auditing only to find the credits are worthless.

      It’s classic UN comedy gold.

  15. ‘When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.’ – E Burke

  16. There are some camps in Germany available for conversion back to active status. Most of them started with detention of non-Jewish German citizens who did not sign the Party document.

    • Don’t say the C-word. Akif Pirincci got himself lynched with just that allusion: That lefties would be glad to reopen certain facilities. They quoted him out of context and show-trialled him in the media. The best contemporary German-writing novellist, ironically a born Turk, saw his prize-winning books thrown out of all public libraries, his contracts ended, his career over. Wikipedia now calls him a neonazi.

  17. Germany needs to take action against all of those who break the law. In the future such meetings should be held over the Internet to avoid problems like this, so that more can attend, and to conserve on the use of fossil fuels.

  18. The end of neutral logical law and order in addition to the end of logical discussion/science/honest estimates/real engineering and so on, is the end of end.

    There is a difference in protecting free speech, say the speech of a bunch of right wing guys, yelling stuff as compared to protecting scientific/logical discussions:

    … which in this case, would have been real scientists coming to discuss peer reviewed data, real world data, and so on that, using power point slides and so forth, that disproves CAGW.

    Comment:
    Science is not a fight. All of the science concerning AGW/CAGW is incorrect. There are a dozen independent observations and analysis results that support the assertion, that human CO2 emission is responsible for less than 5% of the recent rise in atmospheric CO2.

  19. And on November 9th, too.

    What else happened on November 9th in Germany?

    – 1848: End of the March Revolution
    – 1918: Declaration of a German Republic after WWI.
    – 1923: Hitler’s putsch in Munich
    – 1938: Reichskristallnacht, a planned attack disguised as grassroots, against Jews in all of Germany. Was used as an excuse to abolish the Weimar Republic and install the Third Reich.
    – 1967: Start of the 68-movement
    – 1989: Fall of the Berlin Wall.

    I don’t usually follow the MSM news, but on November 9th and 10th I look at the headlines. The cancelled conference didn’t appear, and no wonder.

  20. I always thought this would end with a green flag with a white circle in the middle and a national socialist crooked cross in the circle…

  21. Updated.

    They’ve found an alternate location, but are keeping it secret.

    I imagine ANTIFA will follow someone and make a ruckus. This will be interesting and sad.

    Mourning Free Speech.

    • They could come to the USA. Texas is good, as is Wisconsin, and the gangbangers in Chicago would view the crowds as an opportunity to rob everyone in sight.

  22. Imagine if the Na3is and Hit1er youth became an international movement.
    That’s the future that’s becoming the present.
    Ecofascism will lead to a (probably nuclear) war.

  23. This is quite worrying but as usual contains the seeds of its own failure. I take enormous heart from the billions who know nothing of all this crap and who are consuming fossil fuels ad lib, becoming part of the huge worldwide rising middle class and who may, if they are lucky, allow Germans to polish their boots.

  24. Alinsky rule number one- Power is not what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have . Bluff. The 20 or so was probably the entire contingent of Brownshirts.
    The organisers were bluffed. One of the other Alinsky rules- the threat is worse than the thing itself. This amplified the threat.
    Gutless wimps caving in emboldens these Brownshirts.
    Perhaps all businesses should be given a summary of the Alinsky rules for radicals so they can be prepared.

  25. So this is Merkel’s legacy? I hope she’s proud of herself. Good grief, when you can’t even open your mouth without being verbally stoned by someone whose viewpoint is different from yours and who won’t listen to an opposing view, what do you do?

    Gee whiz, folks, if these people really are this rabidly opposed to any opposing or different viewpoint, what does that say about them? And if you point out that removing all carbon from the atmosphere (which is physically impossible right now) WILL (NOT would) raise atmospheric oxygen levels to a poisonous 35% level, which will kill off everything except insects and plants, do you really think they’d listen, EVEN THOUGH IT HAS BEEN LIKE THAT BEFORE AND SHOWS UP IN THE PALEONTOGICAL AND GEOLOGICAL RECORDS?

    It is difficult to change the viewpoint of someone whose mind is made up, and other than making fun of them when the “deadline for whatever” comes and goes and nothing happens, you are kind of banging your head on the wall.

    Best thing to do is keep track of what does NOT happen and rub their noses in those failed predictions. They are entitled to their notions, just as you are to yours, and trying to argue and change their minds, which are made up, is ridiculous.

    And these fanatics? The reality is that they are simply looking for excuses to be destructive and cause trouble, which was really what was behind Hitler’s ability to attract disgruntled German youths. They were looking for an excuse to make trouble and got the go ahead from him. Merkel is a powerless, damp rag with no place to go and she will never EVER change her idiotic path to self-destruction, any more than Hitler did.

    A few years ago, NATO decided to have a conference in Chicago. The CPD were on the alert. A protest was planned and the cops were out in force, and believe me when I say they had no qualms about shooting anyone making trouble then, and would/will do the same now, even though the gangbangers are running loose everywhere. (Glad I don’t live there any more!) In fact, a small group of troublemakers planning to set off a homemade bomb in the Loop were tracked down and busted before they could anything really, really bad.

    There are plenty of places in the USA where this conference can be held without this kind of disruption and with the protection of real law enforcement, instead of a bunch of wienies hiding behind desks. And, yeah, the REAL cops are available to keep order while it’s going on.

    It’s a shame that the German people are still the wienies that they were in the first half of the 20th century. Just a shame.

    • Merkel is a shameful opportunist who has done and will do absolutely anything to hold on to power. I was initially ambivalent about the Brexit vote, but now I can’t wait to be free of this utter shambles. I know the UK will still tow the green line, but at least we’ll only have to pay for it once…..

  26. In Germany in the late 1920s and into 1933, street protests were conducted by paid mobs.
    From the International Socialists and National Socialists, both authoritarian.
    So far, there seems to be only one paid mob– the “antifa”. But it is authoritarian.
    Europe shows that on every great experiment in authoritarian government, the governing classes eventually granted themselves the privilege of state murder.
    Fourth Century Rome.
    In the Sixteenth Century, authoritarian bureaucrats corrupted the Church into a venal and murderous police state.
    And the current authoritarian experiment began around 1900—and continues.
    However, it is inspiring popular uprisings by ordinary folk, unguided by intellectuals.

  27. Go to the LMU, Ludwig-Maximilian Uni, München, and visit the White Rose Memorial at the entrance. This group, and the Scholl family, was executed for handing out leaflets criticizing the government 1943.
    https://www.weisse-rose-stiftung.de/white-rose-memorial-exhibition/
    Every student there passed that memorial every day.

    Antifa are in fact anti-deutscher. They showed their true face in Dresden not long ago, calling for Bomber Harris to do it again, with Union Jacks, in English. Bomber Harris was the genocidal Dresden fire-bomber after the war was militarily over.

    Interesting that antifa turns up in climate thuggery. Time to follow the money trail….

    • The bombing of Dresden was a woeful decision as the city was not a strategic military target, had no military industry or collateral.

      • Patrick MJD
        Taylor writes that an official 1942 guide to the city described it as “one of the foremost industrial locations of the Reich” and in 1944 the German Army High Command’s Weapons Office listed 127 medium-to-large factories and workshops that were supplying the army with materiel.

        Colonel Harold E. Cook, a US POW held in the Friedrichstadt marshaling yard the night before the attacks, later said that “I saw with my own eyes that Dresden was an armed camp: thousands of German troops, tanks and artillery and miles of freight cars loaded with supplies supporting and transporting German logistics towards the east to meet the Russians”

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II

          • Yes, the city was firebombed (AKA carpet bombing or saturation bombing). Nobody was disputing that fact. What they were disputing was your contention (without attribution) that “the city … had no military industry or collateral”. Instead of addressing Clyde’s point you dismissed it with “but Wikipedia” and instead attacked a position nobody was proposing (IE whether or not Dresden was firebombed)

            If you don’t like the wiki article, then try going directly to the sources that wiki cites:

            For what Taylor said, that comes from his book Dresen: Tuesday, 13 February 1945
            https://archive.org/details/unset0000unse_b8e7

            What cook said comes from Connald Miller’s book Masters of the Air – America’s Bomber Boys Who Fought the Air War Against Nazi Germany.
            https://www.amazon.com/Masters-Air-Americas-Against-Germany/dp/0743235452

    • As the Guardian published Churchill’s classified diaries not long ago, one can see he did not want to negotiate with German Generals (very likely von Staufenberg around the time of the failed plot) but rather the total destruction of the German state. And look at Churchills Operation Unthinkable – to arm the defeated Wehrmacht to attack the Soviet, again, without missing a step. That is what anti-deutscher means.
      Saner heads organized the Marshall Plan.

      Insane heads like Mr. George Kent, Maj. Vindman (Am-Ukrainian) are right now calling for a war with Russia, using an already totally destroyed Ukraine as sparkplug, even Pelosi is doing a Churchill cameo.
      As Zelensky’s backer Kolomoisky said in the NYT, war with Russia to the last Ukrainian.
      This from an oligarch who did everything with Obama, Biden to start , realized what it actually means.

  28. Well the good news is Germany is loosing it’s advantage and descending into hell due to its crazy green rules so this just speeds up the end of the EU.

    All working out well.

  29. Science has a proud history in Germany of conforming to prevailing political opinion.

    At one time some German academics went along with the search for Atlantis, and its supposed place as the cradle of Aryan man. That makes even the lunacy of CC look relatively believable .

    Looking on the bright side, there’s no reason to believe that German science will fail to accept AGW as having been fallacious from the start, just as soon as things turn cool, or if the political landscape should change 🙂

  30. Gang Green.
    Hard at work.
    I am appalled by the connivance of the police and state with these thugs.
    If you wear a mask and utter threats against other people, kindest action the state should perform is strip off the mask and investigate the funding of this street theatre..
    The failure of public authorities worldwide indicates they really are working together.
    Remember the Green Peace assault on a Russian Oil platform?
    Have they ever dared return to Russia?

    Time is rapidly approaching when public tolerance for masked thugs and their police enablers will snap.

  31. Hopefully the hotel can be sued to recover all the travel and booking expenses that have been lost due to it’s cowardice.

  32. Merkel is clearly a traitor. Eventually, traitors are exposed and captured as the regime falters to meet their fate at the hands of the very angry mob that know they have been betrayed by their self-professed “leaders” that turned out to be traitors. The henchmen of the traitors will share their leader’s fate.

    Law and order is not in a good state at this stage, so normal societal protections are not in place- traitors beware.

    Thus, traitors and their Brownshirt henchmen typically come to a very, very sticky end.

    The warmists and their PC brigade may be winning at the moment, but the tide will turn eventually as the People wake up. It is our duty to expedite that awakening.

    • This is about obtaining science outcomes, I don’t want any part of armed revolutions or to provide some poor sod a “sticky end”.

      • I didn’t read High Treason’s post as suggestion that you or anyone else here should. It seems to me it was more a pointing out a historical reality. Such totalitarian movements never end well. IE when the regime falters, it’s leaders end up meeting their fate (sticky end) at the hands of the very mob they whipped up to gain/hold onto power.

        The only part of the post that could be seen as urging your to take part is the last sentence “It is our duty to expedite that awakening” but we expedite that awakening by shining the light of truth upon the deceptions and lies, not by any “armed revolutions or providing some poor sod a sticky end”

  33. OT: Governments (other than just in Australia) are increasingly not defending the presumed ‘right’ to free-speech. Courts and authorities deny the presumed right to dissent or discuss facts and alternate views, or to freely associate minus intimidation and threats. Spineless sovereign democratic constitutional nation-state blames the law abiding victims.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/11/19/thugs-bully-munich-conference-center-force-cancellation-skeptic-climate-conference/

  34. Skeptics seem to think that a few years of cooling will put an end to warmism.

    Warmists are not cognisant to the pure fact’s, it is a belief system that guides them. It is a cause, a calling. The Pope is onboard, as are most other religious heads.

    Alarmiism regarding warming is still growing, it’s not stalling. It’s easy, one doesn’t have to understand it, just become part of the movement.

  35. Hitler is alive and well, and living in Germany. This is exactly how the NSDAP shut down the opposition parties.

    • Joe Biden, Victoria Nuland, Obama, Christopher Steele shoveled $5 billion to re-animate the only nazi government in Europe, Kiev. Newly elected Zelensky needs immediate support From Trump, as journalist John Solomon writes.

        • That assumes there ever was a working brain to rot. with crackhead conspiracists, that isn’t necessarily a valid assumption.

      • Here is the good Victoria Nuland, Obama’s “special” assistant in her own words 2013 at 7:42 into the speech :
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2fYcHLouXY#t=504
        I won’t post her comments on EU resistance to her choice of boy, Yats.
        The BBC published the transcript of a famous telephone call :
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2fYcHLouXY#t=504
        which gives a rounded out picture, puts some meat on the bones so to speak.

        Ye don’t thing purchasing a nazi government is cheap, now do ye?

        It’s a wonder they have not censored it.

        Anyway with Kolomoisky noticing it’s to be war with Russia to the last Ukrainian, published in ther NYT (of all rags!) the game is up.

  36. Shame on Germany! Apparently the WWII left no long lasting lessons on how to react to radical politically motivated intimidation and violence.

  37. They don’t want anyone to debate it or talk about it because they will be proven wrong and this will destroy their plan.
    The point being missed here is that the warmists are not interested in the climate, the temperature, sea level rise, or storms or any other of those events, what the real aim is and this has been going on for nearly 40 years, is to impose a One World socialist government, climate change is only a means to that end.

  38. 0720 and listening to the BBC Radio 4 Today programme and not expecting any coverage of this horror story.

  39. German court green lights coercion, suppression of speech

    German court should file “moralish insolvenz”/”moral insolvency”. If the court cannot defend the constitution due to fear of public protest, or whatever, then they are morally in default, inviting conditions similar to the conditions in the former DDR.
    Germany has, as far as I know, a law forbidding extreme right radicals, fair enough. However, it is immoral to put EIKE in such a category, which is what I suppose Paul Gäbler was trying to do with a question like: “…if the positions of EIKE were known to them.”

  40. I picked up the Failed Predictions list while trawling through this lot and thought that this should be converted into a sound bite such as : “97% of scientific predictions are failures.”. Regularly popping this sound bite into all the sceptical output might do a bit of good.
    The problem here is finding the 3% which have proved correct.
    No need to worry. about statistical rectitude. Let the warmists worry about that.

  41. Everyone looks to Hong Kong, mouthing mealy weasel words, and nervously watch over their shoulders for something like that starting at the garden fence.
    Ukraine’s Poroshenko was even invited to Berlin, they were sure Hilary would win, but now the entire coup is traceable to outright nazi coup. Someone in Berlin is for sure very nervous.
    The last thing Germany need is a street confrontation. Just imagine the field day CNN would have.

    Are we seing the beginning of a color revolution in Germany, now that Ukraine and Maidan have blimped out?

    • The very first law voted after the Kiev coup (note that I attribute no moral jugement to the forceful destruction of the previous system, as it’s the replacement of a legal system by another, both of which are fine in their own reference frame) was one to “delete” for all purpose all Russian only speaking population, destroying the status quo of Russian as a semi official minority language, forbidding the Russian language journals, making it illegal to speak Russian in almost all non private settings.

      That extreme xenophobic and fascistic attack on a minority was completely hidden in Western media, and all the talking heads, the well known influencers and analysts in foundations for strategic analysis and associations for European federalism and for peace and all the common bunch of know it all, they all hid it; and merely mentioning in on Tweeter to one of them earns you an instablock.

      They have to hide it because it goes against everything they pretend to stand for. They let Ukraine decide to dismiss local languages while they try to impose an official status of the regions and their local languages in countries that have not been multilingual for centuries.

      I wonder if any scientist has ever measured by an objective metric the level of bias in the Soviet Union journals, as distribution of statements from unbiased and most informative to the completely opposed to reality; that would allow for a comparison subject by subject with the Western press.

  42. Max Planck overturned all physics in 1901, Einstein again in 1905, to name just two. Riemann and Gauss overturned all geometry, Cantor revolutionized number theory and Gödel demolished Russells logic.
    De Cusa of Bernkastel overturned theology and invented science itself, Kepler is the first physicist, and Leibniz with his dynamics opened the door to the industrial revolution.
    And after all Ben Franklin chose Leibniz’ Pursuit of Happines over Britain’s Locke’s “Property”, to the utter horror of the soon to be defeated British Empire.

    That is what the antifa anti-deutscher are vowing to bury.

    • The phrase was Jefferson’s, not Franklin’s, although the latter and other committee members suggested a few changes to Jefferson’s first draft of the Declaration.

      Scholars differ over whether “pursuit of happiness” were Jefferson’s own gloss on Locke, or if he were influenced by Burlamaqui or Leibniz. In any case, his conception of the term differed from the Calvinist Swiss and Lutheran German philosophers’.

      • It’s Leibniz, a direct quote, Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. The Leibniz archive is a real treasure. Ben Franklin was a great student of this revolutionary thinker. Pursuit of Happiness is not possible as a slave. As Lincoln later said the country cannot be half slave and half free.
        Jefferson’s conception did indeed differ, being pro-slavery.

        Lock who wrote a Carolina “constitution” with Life, Liberty and Property, is thoroughly dismantled by Leibniz, a real joy to read. Later the Confederacy adopted Lock’s rejected thesis. Small wonder they had an embassy in London.

  43. First, it’s idiotic to have a climate skeptic meeting in Europe. It’s as insane as the NRA conventions in gun-control cities. You are clearly supporting the enemy. If these fools didn’t see cancellation, loss of money and so forth coming, they are not nearly as smart as they think they are. Pure stupidity from the start.

    Second, it’s Europe. That which is not expressly allowed is forbidden. I know it is/was different here—if not forbidden, it’s allowed. But, IT’S EUROPE.

    Third, do none of the skeptic fools read what going on in Europe? Obviously, not. Violence and anarchy are the name of the game. Think the 1940s or the Dark Ages and wipe that stupid elightenment period out of your head. There was never much enlightment and since the candles put out CO2, there were all extinquished. THINK for once in your skeptic lives.

  44. This is a bizarre discussion. Half of all postings are knee-jerk nazi and ww2 jokes, interspersed with Merkel rants. And then the occasional gun-nut and a helping of EU- and Europe-bashing mingled in. This is so depressing and also very American (yes I can say that if all of you are on about Europe). None of these remarks address the actual events. This is a crowd of wannabe lefties who want to shutdown a discussion they deem politically incorrect. It’s bad, it is also totalitarian, but neither Merkel nor the EU are to blame (and I despise Merkel make no mistake, but she’s not responsible here), and they are not nazis either. People like those pseudo-lefties have been around for several decades, and if you want a comparison look at the politically correct crowd in American universities. They shut down events they don’t like in a very similar manner.

    • You are not up to date – this is antifa turning out as climate “activists” .
      This is new. Watch Hong Kong for a little smell of what these people can do. Sure the antifa are roiling US campuses, and look at two US Senators in antifa black in Hong Kong goading them on.
      Thing have moved into high gear, complacency is not advised.

      Not everyone here is Ami, and can actually find Yurp on the map.

    • Yes.

      I think a few more Americans need to get out of America and take a long look at some places in Europe.

      • @griff: Here are not only Americans, and you can take as given, what Germans tells you.

        @anorak2

        but neither Merkel nor the EU are to blame (and I despise Merkel make no mistake, but she’s not responsible here)

        In so far they are to blame as they are responsible for a certain political climate in Germany.

  45. Mr. Spencer – I think you left out the fear of being alienated from their friends. Believers cast out non-believers from their congregations. Have since Biblical times – and probably before.

  46. The “1030’s” typo makes sense to me. I think the harassment of climate skeptics is more similar to the persecution of witches and heretics in the middle ages than it is to the violence of fascists in the early 20th century. the humans-cause-climate-change belief is a pseudo-religion that gives meaning to people’s lives — they don’t like it questioned.

    • the 1030s are a few centuries too early for the witch hunts. 1430s would be more accurate if witch-hunting is what you want to use for comparison (in 1431, for example, Joanne of Arc was executed, after being accused of witchcraft among other charges)

  47. “German rule of law is failing

    At its site, EIKE called the coercion and intimidation to force NH to shirk its contractual obligations a “particularly serious case of coercion and blackmail for the suppression of scientific facts.”

    “If the rule of law still works in this country, the court should make a decision in our favour,” EIKE wrote”
    ____________________________________

    That’s common low, same in the US: The owner of a public accessible space claims inviolability of property.

    https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-huawei&sxsrf=ACYBGNR1CInkhdznn2e29PDPgBUPHSQSAg%3A1574870189175&ei=rZzeXeapCtCXmwWtuJqgDA&q=caribbean+singer+male+banana&oq=caribbean+singer+male+bana&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=Singer+Harry+Belafonte+was+denied+entry+to+disco+in+Linz&oq=Singer+Harry+Belafonte+was+denied+entry+to+disco+in+Linz&aqs=chrome.

  48. “German rule of law is failing

    At its site, EIKE called the coercion and intimidation to force NH to shirk its contractual obligations a “particularly serious case of coercion and blackmail for the suppression of scientific facts.”

    “If the rule of law still works in this country, the court should make a decision in our favour,” EIKE wrote”
    ____________________________________

    That’s common law, same in the US: The owner of a public accessible space claims inviolability of property.

    https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-huawei&sxsrf=ACYBGNR1CInkhdznn2e29PDPgBUPHSQSAg%3A1574870189175&ei=rZzeXeapCtCXmwWtuJqgDA&q=caribbean+singer+male+banana&oq=caribbean+singer+male+bana&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=Singer+Harry+Belafonte+was+denied+entry+to+disco+in+Linz&oq=Singer+Harry+Belafonte+was+denied+entry+to+disco+in+Linz&aqs=chrome.

  49. New experience: next meeting make sure the local’s staff & security are undisputibly on YOUR side!

Comments are closed.