EU Official: “we can’t make any progress on climate change until Brexit is resolved”

Guest essay by Eric Worrall

Brexit is distracting appointed EU officials from dictating climate policy to democratically elected nation state governments.

Brexit Is Delaying Global Action To Fight Climate Change 

Dave Keating
Oct 20, 2019, 08:24am

In June, European prime ministers meeting in Brussels were unable to agree on an EU proposal to completely decarbonize by 2050

Poland, with the backing of a few other Eastern European countries, said they could not support a plan they believe will inhibit their economic growth.

Getting Poland on board will take time. But campaigners say it’s essential for this to be done before the next annual summit of the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC), which is meeting in Santiago, Chile in early December.

Thanks to Brexit, there is no chance of that happening.

Everything is being overshadowed by Brexit,” noted one diplomat from an Eastern European country. That is the reason the climate discussion is being delayed until the next EU summit in December, he said.

It feels like we can’t make any progress on climate change until Brexit is resolved one way or the other – it’s an infuriating distraction,” grumbled another EU official.

Read more: https://www.forbes.com/sites/davekeating/2019/10/20/brexit-is-delaying-action-to-fight-climate-change/#4c31726a9153

The British Brexit parliamentary deadlock shows no sign of resolution, unless the EU finally tires of the game, rejects the British PM’s hilarious faux extension request, and ejects Britain as planned on October 31st.

Despite the delicious spectacle of global climate action held up by Brexit chaos, I hope for their sake Britain leaves on October 31st.

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Mike
October 20, 2019 10:16 pm

”It feels like we can’t make any progress on climate change”

That’s because you can’t but the good news is that you don’t need to.

Greg
Reply to  Mike
October 21, 2019 12:13 am

“It feels like we can’t make any progress on climate change until Brexit is resolved one way or the other – it’s an infuriating distraction,” grumbled another EU official.

That is because the EU have steadfastly made the whole process as difficult as possible to deter other countries in the EU from being tempted to do the same thing. There are many in France who are equally sick of dictate from Bruxelles.

If another major country broke off from EU it would the be end of the whole EU super-state project.

A common trading bloc was what everyone voted to join and probable still want to be part of. Surrendering sovereignty is another issue entirely.

David
Reply to  Greg
October 21, 2019 2:03 am

I guess Brexit won’t be happening then.

[late snip~mod]

Reply to  David
October 21, 2019 5:00 am

Bless You fellow DEPLORABLE

Robert W Turner
Reply to  David
October 21, 2019 7:55 am

I came to WUWT and a klans meeting broke out.

Bill Powers
Reply to  Robert W Turner
October 21, 2019 8:56 am

Jascha Heifetz ,a Russian born violinist was once quoted as saying

“No matter what side of an argument you are on, you always find some people on your side that you wish were on the other side.”

And ain’t it the truth.

Bryan A
Reply to  Robert W Turner
October 21, 2019 2:52 pm

EU…€xcuses, €xcuses, €xcuses… an excuse is nothing but the skin of a lie stuffed with reason

KaliforniaKook
Reply to  Robert W Turner
October 24, 2019 6:01 pm

The Klan (AKA Ku Klux Klan, KKK) was founded, funded, provided logistical and legal support by the Democrat Party after they lost the right to keep their slaves.

You’ll find few Democrats or people who want to be slave owners on this site.

peter jones
Reply to  Greg
October 21, 2019 1:50 pm

But of course the common trading block was always political bait, to draw countries in, so that the socialist dream for europe to be converted to a globalist dictatorship could be realized over several generations.
This is clear from some of the Foreign Office documents released recently under the thirty year rule.
Heath blatantly lied to the British people about the reasons for joining the EU, it was always a power structure designed to destroy the nation states of Europe and replace it with a faux democracy, run by
bureaucrats, whose strings would be pulled by powerful globalist socialists from behind a metaphorical curtain.

Trebla
Reply to  Mike
October 21, 2019 5:02 am

That’s usually what happens when a REAL problem rears it’s ugly head when you are deeply involved in wrestling with an IMAGINARY problem.

Roy
October 20, 2019 10:35 pm

That would make one wonder about the great dynamics of the UK, and if they were half of the solution (or half of the problem).

nw sage
Reply to  Roy
October 21, 2019 5:52 pm

Correct – The UK apparently has TREMENDOUS power – it can stop the EU from correcting climate change … all by itself … by simply not voting for the EU proposal for BREXIT. WOW! Who’d of thunk it.

commieBob
October 20, 2019 10:43 pm

If they invoke the sacrifices necessary to actually succeed, they will face many more demonstrations. So far we’ve seen yellow vests and Dutch farmers. Governments will fall. The EU will be torn apart.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  commieBob
October 20, 2019 11:04 pm

Here’s hoping.

H.R.
Reply to  commieBob
October 21, 2019 5:42 am

commiebob: “Governments will fall. The EU will be torn apart.”

Help me out here. I’m not seeing the downside.

commieBob
Reply to  H.R.
October 21, 2019 7:59 am

Nassim Nicholas Taleb has strong opinions on what kind of governance work at different scales. What works in a tribe will not work on a national scale, and vice versa.

There are strong arguments for some kind of pan-European organization. On the other hand, the EU as designed, seems doomed to fail. It’s trying to do the wrong things. link

yirgach
Reply to  commieBob
October 21, 2019 11:45 am

Talib is a strong voice, but he’s just pointing out that a political union cannot survive without a fiscal union. This was an obvious fact noted by many, even as the concept of the EU was being discussed.

Sam Pyeatte
Reply to  commieBob
October 21, 2019 4:23 pm

The far-left idiots running the EU could solve everything by committing mass suicide and leaving normal people alone.

Björn Eriksson
October 20, 2019 10:44 pm

I liked Brexit before, and even more now.

J Mac
October 20, 2019 11:08 pm

Carbon based life forms are determined to ‘decarbonize’….. Is it possible to be more ignorant, deluded, or stupid than that? I can’t think of anything….. Can you?

Get the hell out of the EU, Great Britain! Get your self free of their self destructive stupidity!

Linda Goodman
Reply to  J Mac
October 21, 2019 12:42 am

“Carbon based life forms are determined to ‘decarbonize’….. Is it possible to be more ignorant, deluded, or stupid than that? I can’t think of anything….. Can you?” – J Mac

Going in the Quotes folder 😊……

Reply to  J Mac
October 21, 2019 1:08 am

Great observation by J Mac: “Carbon based life forms are determined to ‘decarbonize’….. Is it possible to be more ignorant, deluded, or stupid than that?”

Nick Mearing-Smith
Reply to  J Mac
October 21, 2019 1:29 am

Unfortunately, in the UK, all major parties are the most enthusiastic participants in the AGW scam. As an active Conservative Party member, it is a matter of great shame to me that Boris Johnson, Teresa May, David Cameron are all as bad as each other on this issue. I have discussed it with my local Conservative MP, but got nowhere.

Right-Handed Shark
Reply to  Nick Mearing-Smith
October 21, 2019 9:48 am

Try harder.

n.n
Reply to  J Mac
October 21, 2019 5:56 am

Yeah, it’s a cookbook. There is already a policy of sequestration, and or [clinical] cannibalism, under selective-child policy in liberal societies at a rate of nearly one million annually in America alone. Fortunately, or unfortunately, the Earth gives up her secrets at irregular but recurring intervals. Let this be, once again, and again, and again, a moral turning point for those who rebel for extinction.

Photios
Reply to  J Mac
October 21, 2019 6:26 am

They don’t just want decarbonisation,
they want complete decarbonisation;
aka: suicide.

David Dibbell
Reply to  J Mac
October 21, 2019 10:50 am

“Get your self free” – Now in my head I hear Paul Simon singing “50 Ways …” Thanks for that.

J Mac
Reply to  David Dibbell
October 21, 2019 11:59 am

Exactly! It’s intentional, as I have used this phrase before:
“Slip out the back, Union Jack! And get yourself Free!”

October 20, 2019 11:11 pm

That’s because Climate Change isn’t about Climate.
And Brexit isn’t about EU Climate policy.

Both are about Globalist Socialism and control.

n.n
Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
October 21, 2019 12:00 am

Despite the “democracy” label, they can’t help but reveal their hand. They want minority regimes wielding capital and control.

Alan the Brit
Reply to  n.n
October 21, 2019 1:50 pm

Joel is bang on the money there! As I have said before, I am always suspicious of countries who refer that refer to themselves as the “Peoples’ Democratic Republic of………!”, etc. The last thing they are is for the people, or democratic!

R.S. Brown
October 20, 2019 11:22 pm

I’m not sure any place in Chile will be safe for international meetings this December:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-50119649

Ron Long
Reply to  R.S. Brown
October 21, 2019 3:09 am

Your comment is right on the money, R.S. Brown. I live in Argentina and regularly visit Chile and I am horrified how violent the reaction to a 2 cents rise in bus fare was, so violent, including burning up buses, the bus terminal, and several supermarkets, that it is obvious this was not about the bus fare, it was the people who lost the election trying to reverse the situation (sound familiar?). I’m not sure anywhere is safe anymore.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Ron Long
October 21, 2019 5:13 am

that makes it IDEAL I reckon
let em go thinking its another nice warm sunny holiday with pay n perks
and meet reality of what their sort of social schemes lead to up close n personal

Carl Friis-Hansen
Reply to  ozspeaksup
October 21, 2019 5:40 am

I would like to hope for that. However, I assume they will make a dedicated nice holiday area closed to the general public of Chile (and skeptics). I am also assuming the will have a lot of giant diesel generators installed at that time, to ensure there is no interruption for the party animals.

Phoenix44
Reply to  R.S. Brown
October 21, 2019 4:46 am

Love the way desribing looters as criminals is somehow controversial. The BBC eh.

MarkW
Reply to  Phoenix44
October 21, 2019 9:20 am

The BBC hasn’t decided whether they agree with the goals of the looters. Deciding whether they are criminal or not depends on that decision.

Rod Evans
October 20, 2019 11:23 pm

If the protracted UK Leaving the EU process was the key reason the climate change movement are struggling to make progress, then I would applaud the ridiculous leave delay and feel grateful it has achieved one positive.
The UK decided to Leave the bureaucracy of the EU in June 2016. The process should last a maximum 2 years to complete. Sadly, we are now approaching the fourth year since we took the democratic decision to leave the EU and all of its institutions. The decision to leave is being blocked, by vested political interests.
If the decision taken by the people to leave, is overturned by a socialist parliamentary majority, who oppose the will of the people in the UK, the farmers protests in Holland as impressive as they are, will be as nothing, compared to what will happen in the UK

Derg
Reply to  Rod Evans
October 21, 2019 12:53 am

The Germans do not want Brexit; they like having British subjects.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Derg
October 21, 2019 1:05 am

They also like to maintain ties to their Royal Family living in London.

Geoffrey Williams
October 20, 2019 11:51 pm

Ive always suspected what the Brexit opposition was all about . .
My greenie friends here in Aus are all anti Brexit . .

Greg
Reply to  Geoffrey Williams
October 21, 2019 3:23 am

Why would an Aussie even have a position on Brexit?

I have an interest in Aussie politics in so far as where they go on climate because that is part of a global movement that affects ME. Whether they want to keep their ties to the monarchy is their business, I can’t be for or against it.

Rich Davis
Reply to  Greg
October 21, 2019 3:54 am

Is that a disingenuous question, or seriously ignorant of the cultural ties between our mother country and Australia, Canada, New Zealand, and the United States?

Hope I’m wrong, but I expect that little troll Bercow will do his worst again today.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  Rich Davis
October 21, 2019 4:58 am

I don’t think you would find many Americans who think of England as our mother country. There were a couple little kerfuffles back a few hundred years ago and we have definitely taken the parent role in the relationship. England would have had great difficulties in the 1914-1919 time frame without the US and would have ceased to exist in the 1940s. Any interest in the Royal Family is generated by readers of People Magazine, not the Wall Street Journal.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Trying to Play Nice
October 21, 2019 6:03 am

You would be wrong. The “British” royal family is German/Greek. It’s why in WW1 they changed their name from Battenberg to Windsor.

The “English” are a northern Germanic tribe called the “Angles” and “mingled” with another northern Germanic tribe called the “Saxons”.

Rich Davis
Reply to  Trying to Play Nice
October 21, 2019 7:36 am

Not talking about the royals here at all. I’m talking about the Magna Carta and the rest of our cultural heritage. They can keep old jug ears! No mere political act can sever cultural ties.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Rich Davis
October 21, 2019 5:34 am

Many Australian still want that “blankey” connection to The Crown. NZ binned that in 2000-ish. IMO I don’t think it matters these days.

Pete
Reply to  Patrick MJD
October 24, 2019 9:40 pm

New Zealand is owned and accountable to the The Crown. And The Crown wants it to be a Registered Corporate. So go figure. Check it out, anytime you like.

MarkW
Reply to  Greg
October 21, 2019 7:25 am

I have opinions on many controversies that don’t affect me directly.
Doesn’t mean I’m going to do anything beyond running my mouth though.
Being human is to be opinionated.

MarkW
Reply to  Geoffrey Williams
October 21, 2019 7:26 am

Geoffrey, just more evidence that Green is just a cover for global socialism.

n.n
October 20, 2019 11:56 pm

Many people would characterize a pause in [political] climate adventurism as positive progress.

Matthew Sykes
October 21, 2019 12:14 am

Is it because the finances arent in place to waste on tackling CO2 or they dont have enough neurons to do two jobs at the same time?

Or of course it could be they know CAGW is a crock and are looking for any excuse not to screw up their economy any more than Brexit will.

Did you know the UK stopped paying its war debt to the US in 2006? A debt we incurred in protecting continental europeans from fascism. And you would think they might be grateful, give us red carpet treatment, give the UK any concession it wanted. But no, they treat us like fools.

And then want another £38 billion off us. They owe us billions.

They owe the US a huge amount to. The cash you guys put in, especially in the Marshal plan, trying to stabilise the mess these clowns had made of their chunk of planet earth.

Richard of NZ
Reply to  Matthew Sykes
October 21, 2019 3:31 am

The UK did not stop paying the was debt, the payments were all made and there was no more debt to pay.

The was debt owed to the UK by the US were never accounted for and thus were never repaid. You may think I an=m exaggerating but such things as the UK paying to get the US war industries up and going are an example. This meant that when the Japanese and the nasties dragged the US into the conflict they had immediately viable industries up and running.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Richard of NZ
October 21, 2019 5:31 am

“Richard of NZ October 21, 2019 at 3:31 am

The UK did not stop paying the was debt…”

I am sure you mean the WAR debt? IIRC, that was paid back in the mid 1990’s. But I get your point.

Editor
Reply to  Matthew Sykes
October 21, 2019 11:43 am

matthew

In real terms both the first and second world wars cost the UK £12 triilion each time. Only Norway paid any money towards the sacrifices made on their behalf. Germanys debt was wiped clean under the London Agreement in the 1950’s whilst the UK was repaying war debt to the US until 2006

tonyb

Richard S Courtney
Reply to  tonyb
October 22, 2019 12:55 am

Patrick MJD,

No, you are wrong and Matthew Sykes and tonyb are right.

The UK continued to pay the US for WW2 ‘Lease Lend” until 2006 when the entire debt was finally repaid.

The UK had great financial loss from that war and the US had great financial gain. The US invested some of that gain on The Marshall Plan which rebuilt the economies of Europe with the intention (which was realised) of benefiting the US from future trade. The UK did not obtain Marshall Aid.

However, and importantly, there are greater gains and losses than merely financial ones (as any bereaved person will attest) and overall, every country lost much from that war and Russia lost most.

Richard

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Richard S Courtney
October 22, 2019 2:38 am

I knew it was relatively “recent”, that’s the point. Being out by a few years isn’t a biggie!

BoyfromTottenham
October 21, 2019 12:25 am

I noticed this little gem in the post:

“Poland, with the backing of a few other Eastern European countries, said they could not support a plan they believe will inhibit their economic growth.

Getting Poland on board will take time.”

I’ll say it will. The smart and brave Poles and their Eastern European coal-reliant allies will take a lot of convincing to ‘get on board’ any plan that involves leaving their coal in the ground and being held economic hostage by the Germans to Russia for gas! They will never forget their invasion and pillage by Germany in WW2, and by Russia shortly after, and they know how to fight.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  BoyfromTottenham
October 21, 2019 1:08 am

They also knew how to break ENIGMA codes too, and fly the odd Spitfire or two.

ResourceGuy
Reply to  BoyfromTottenham
October 21, 2019 2:04 pm

Surrendering recently won economic and standard of living gains will not come easy. Especially since the Greens sound like former Soviet control freaks.

Chaswarnertoo
October 21, 2019 12:34 am

Ah! The water melon starry sphincter….

October 21, 2019 12:51 am

“we can’t make any progress on climate change until Brexit is resolved”

and once brexit is resolved we won’t make any progress on climate until climate denialism is resolved

https://tambonthongchai.com/2019/10/21/denialfunding/

Mike
Reply to  chaamjamal
October 21, 2019 1:10 am

Not about the funding it’s about the scientific truth.
And what the hell is climate denialism?

Reply to  Mike
October 21, 2019 4:24 am

hi Mike
in answer to your question,
climate denialism is what goes on here at wuwt
and in a few other places in the blogosphere
questioning the science
doubting scientists
ignoring consensus
funded by the fossil fuel industry
things like that

https://tambonthongchai.com/2019/10/21/denialfunding/
stuff like that

MarkW
Reply to  chaamjamal
October 21, 2019 7:32 am

There is no science in the global warming scam to deny.
Models are not science. Especially since the real world has for the last 30 years refused to behave as the models have decreed.

Consensus is politics, it isn’t science. I can’t count the number of times a “scientific” consensus has been over turned when the real world data proved it to be wrong.

PS: The claims that the realists are being funded is just another lie made up by the scammers to excuse the fact that their other lies aren’t being accepted by the masses. Of course the billions being received by the global warming scammers doesn’t affect anybody, according to the scammers.

Pat Frank
Reply to  chaamjamal
October 21, 2019 10:12 am

MarkW has it right. There is no science supporting AGW.

The models can’t model

The air temperature record is so riddled with systematic error as to be useless.

The whole AGW gemisch is a crock, including the proxy air temperature reconstructions that have no known connection to air temperature.

The science denial is yours chaamjamal. More like, the science bastardization, actually.

peter jones
Reply to  chaamjamal
October 21, 2019 2:17 pm

Dear Chaamjaml, science denialism is what seems to be going on in your world, to say that climate realists doubt scientists, automatically implies that you yourself doubt scientists of high caliber , its just that their scientific hypothesis (often confirmed later by independent replication) disagree with your quasi religious beliefs, scepticism is what science is all about, consensus has no role in science, in fact consensus is really a religious/philosophical/political concept in that sense.
I remind you that by far the largest donations by the fossil fuel industry(oil and gas) have always been to the green movements, and Anthropogenic Warming cultists (oil is an energy competitor to coal).
A lot of the underpinning physics of the AGW cults beliefs, has not been satisfactorily confirmed and some blatantly breaks the laws of physics.
I remind you that the IPCC is a political organisation, set up to achieve political goals, to it science is just a useful tool to achieve those goals, this is why they have upon occasion blatantly lied about the science, and done everything to suppress those scientists whose work shows Co2 is not a major problem or that other factors are more powerful factors in climate.

SteveW
Reply to  chaamjamal
October 22, 2019 2:34 am

Do you class the climate as a climate denialist for steadfastly refusing to demonstrate any form of accelerated warming and/or catastrophe?

Kone Wone
Reply to  chaamjamal
October 22, 2019 9:49 pm

Science should always be questioned; scientists doubted; consensus ignored. It is you who are in that River in Egypt.

Schitzree
Reply to  chaamjamal
October 21, 2019 4:12 am

Remember children, if a single person doesn’t believe in the absolute power of your God, then he can’t grant any of your wishes. So burn the heretics. And anyone who questions the high preists too. If they truly believed then they wouldn’t ask questions.

And if after there are no more heretics God still doesn’t grant our wishes, then that means someone must be a WITCH. Let’s find them all and burn them too.

~¿~

n.n
Reply to  Schitzree
October 21, 2019 5:49 am

Mortal gods, certainly, are a jealous and secular lot, with capital and control ambitions.

MarkW
Reply to  chaamjamal
October 21, 2019 7:33 am

Once again the scammers actually believe that if they repeat the same lie enough times, they will eventually convince themselves.

Bruce Cobb
October 21, 2019 1:46 am

Sounds like there’s trouble in Climateland, and they need something to blame it on.

Susan
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
October 21, 2019 6:20 am

Should Brexit ever be resolved they will have to find another excuse, maybe that’s why it’s dragging on.

Ed Zuiderwijk
October 21, 2019 1:52 am

How terribly inconvenient.

Coeur de Lion
October 21, 2019 1:58 am

Don’t forget Rear Admiral Josip Bartosik DSC Royal Navy and other naval contributions

George Lawson
October 21, 2019 2:04 am

I’m not sure who Dave Keating is, but he is deluded if he feels that Brexit is responsible for holding up EU and global climate change policy. Is he saying that all business of the EU has stopped because of Brexit, if not, why just Brexit? He really means that Brexit is a convenient excuse for EU member states not to have to implement ridiculous decarbonisation policies. Incidentally, I’m sure Boris Johnson is privately a sceptic, but he rightly is not showing his hand until he is elected with a huge majority. Then, we hope he will use the
subsequent five year term to turn the clock back on this ridiculous global warming hysteria.

bonbon
October 21, 2019 2:30 am

Britain just triggered Operation Yellowhammer, which has nothing to do with protecting that little yellow bird, rather with a hammer for anything that looks like Yellow Vests.
Sure, it doesn’t even rhyme with France’s Gilets Jaunes.

I take Russian spokeswoman Zakharova’s comment as most concise :Brexit delays are an imperial effort to weaken both the British people and the EU position.

And to hear Verhofstadt only last month saying an EU empire, yes he said empire, is needed against the Russian empire, Chinese Empire, and US empire! No kidding!

Looks like the jolly old British empire is having none of that. Good old feudal Primus inter Pares, what?

Editor
Reply to  bonbon
October 21, 2019 11:46 am

bonbon

yes and we were called vassals and a colony

tonyb.

kramer
October 21, 2019 2:31 am

It’s been interesting to see how the post Brexit drama has unfolded. Bottom line is, the people voted to get out of the EU and the EU and many leftists are trying to keep them in. They even want a re-vote, something I find astounding.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  kramer
October 21, 2019 5:18 am

doesnt the scenario sound JUST like killary and her minions against Trump
they lost and will not accept it
now whos in denial???
roflmao
sooner boris gets em out the better

J Mac
Reply to  ozspeaksup
October 21, 2019 9:45 am

Indeed, it does!

jim hogg
Reply to  kramer
October 21, 2019 9:10 am

The EU referendum took place almost three and a half years ago. The likes of Johnson (currently PM) and Farage suggested that a withdrawal deal would be easy to arrange, lied about the benefits of leaving, and vast amounts of illegal funds were used to support and drive the Leave campaign (investigations still ongoing), which should in a reasonable world have rendered the result null and void. As it was the winning margin was less than 2% and just under 37.5% of the total electorate voted to leave.

The majority of voters over 65 voted to leave and the majority of voters under 25 voted to remain in the EU. Approximately a million of those from the older age group who voted to leave are estimated to have died since. More than 2 million new young voters have joined the electorate since and the great majority of those are apparently in favour of staying in the EU. The current level of support for staying in the EU amongst the populace is apparently now higher than the leave majority was back in June 2019. People have learned a great deal in the intervening time and surely referendums have a best by date too, just as General Elections have.

In 64 Harold Wilson won with a small majority and went back to the people in 66 and was re-elected with a sizable majority. He did the same thing in 74, after just 8 months in power. There are several instances of the results of General Elections in the UK lasting for only a short time with the will of the people changing as circumstances and electoral make up changes. There is no rule in the UK constitution (yes, it’s not codified but it does exist) to the effect Referendum results must be applied regardless of the passage of time. Such a rule would be utterly ridiculous obviously. When circs have changed substantially – more people have a clearer idea of what Brexit is about now than did in June 2016 – and when the make up the electorate has changed, and when the majority was so small in a matter of such importance, then a further referendum makes a great deal of sense – if democracy is to matter at all. Further, such a change has such far reaching long term consequences that the votes of the young are particularly important. In Scotland,prior to the 2014 referendum, the voting age was reduced to 16. But 16-18 year olds were not able to vote in 2016.

The media campaign (in a country where the right wing media is utterly dominant and and engages in ideologically driven misrepresentation on a daily basis) was significantly influential in producing the result. Boris Johnson, a proven liar, spent several years in his early journalistic career with The Telegraph, based in Brussels, peddling myths about the EU which were then picked up and given front page treatment in the mass market tabloids as if they were facts and helped lay the foundations for ignorant public hositility to the EU. The EU is primarily about trade and the UK gains enormously from its membership in terms of trade. Jacob Rees Mogg, one of the extremist members of one of the right wing bodies driving the anti EU sentiment, the ERG, has admitted that it may take up to 50 years for the UK to recover econmically from withdrawal. Most of those in the House of Commons who are fighting the exit – on the current terms – are concerned about the damage to our trading position – ie the empact on jobs and GDP and all of the knock on consequences, and those who are against leaving are not all on the left. And those who want to leave are not all on the left. The leader of the left wing opposition is a leave supporter.

Some possibly relevant information. The EU is currently working on trying to close loopholes that allow the wealthiest to hide their money offshore to avoid paying their fair share of tax. Many in the pro leave groups stand to lose if the UK stays in the EU as a result. There’s also evidence of the strangest thing: members of these groups moving their profit making concerns to EU countries in expectation of the UK leaving, while campaigning for leave!

Things are not quite as simple as they seem. And this little comment barely scratches the surface of the complexity of Brexit. As for the EU bureaucracy, it’s less than a tenth of the size of the UK’s, and about a seventieth of the size of the US’s Federal beaurocracy. Workers rights and quality standards will be at risk if/when we leave – which is fine for those whose only concern is making as much money as they can and not so good for those at the bottom end. In large part the pro Brexit movement benefitted from the profoundly damaging effects of the preceding 6 years of austerity which helped crearte a substantial body of very disaffected people whose concerns were focussed on leaving the EU as a solution to their problems by dishonest rich and powerful people who had no interest in those who’d suffered as a result of austerity policies. Surveys have shown that the less well educated tended to vote leave (as pressured and persuaded by the tabloid press) and the better educated tended to vote to stay in. Leaving the EU is an act of self harm, but it suits that disrupter to our east, Vladimir Putin, who wants to see the EU broken up because it poses a threat to his plans for increasing dominance to the east of and throughout Europe. Donald Trump is also in favour of our leaving, because anything that makes the EU weaker is a good thing in his eyes too – notwithstanding his affection for Vlad and his aims. And yes, the Good Friday Agreement matters. The EU has fought hard to try to ensure that Brexit doesn’t indirectly provoke violence on the Irish border, whereas the extreme right in the UK couldn’t care less.

I’m still a sceptic by the way. Global warming seems to be happening. The temperature stats suggest it is. But there’s no way of distinguishing – yet, that I’m aware of – between natural variation and any impact rising CO2 levels may have. I’m still waiting for hard evidence either way.

There will be typos. Apologies in advance.

jim hogg
Reply to  jim hogg
October 21, 2019 10:34 am

Oops . . . . got my left and right mixed up. Second last sentence, fourth paragraph should have said: “And those who want to leave are not all on the RIGHT.” Apologies. .

Editor
Reply to  jim hogg
October 21, 2019 12:05 pm

Jim

Presumably you are being satirical?

“vast amounts of illegal funds were used to support and drive the Leave campaign (investigations still ongoing), which should in a reasonable world have rendered the result null and void. As it was the winning margin was less than 2% and just under 37.5% of the total electorate voted to leave. ”

All the investigations came to nothing. there are none outstanding, other than the ones about remain funding (including Soros) that the Electoral commission are reluctant to investigate.

52% out of an overall 72% of the electorate voted to leave. Unfortunately you seem unaware that babies and children don’t vote and those that can’t be bothered to vote can’t influence the result. Those that didn’t vote but could have done must be assumed to support whatever result the majority of their peers decided on.

Typical turn out for an EU election is 46%, so by your criteria there has been no popular mandate for ANY Euro Mp’s or the Euro Parliament in its entire history, so no legislation they have passed is legal. Or is that somehow different?

tonyb

Reply to  jim hogg
October 21, 2019 4:56 pm

Thank you, Jim, for providing an accurate precis of the Brexit omnishambles. In my experience, those who support or campaign for Brexit are naïve and mislead, wilfully ignorant, cretinously stupid or have interests they wish to protect at any cost.
The roots of Brexit can be traced back to David Cameron, who, in the 2010 General Election achieved the worst possible result for the Tories – defeating Labour, but needing a coalition with the Liberal Democrats to form a government. The Conservative Party see themselves as the only rightful rulers of the UK, and must, therefore, be in power – at any cost. No lie is too big, no policy promise too outrageous to be beyond consideration – they rule by Divine Right and those odious little oiks, the great unwashed masses, must be made to give them enough votes to do so. And so, at the next General election, something was needed to garner enough votes to give them an outright majority and remove the prospect of having to share power with anyone, and so the idea of a referendum on EU membership was used, as it would guarantee enough votes to give them an outright majority. Once safely in power, Cameron waited until the last possible moment to actually allow the Referendum to take place, which as we now know, delivered the unthinkable – a majority in favour of leaving the EU. Cameron bailed out (to spend more time with his money – sorry, family) leaving the poison chalice of delivering Brexit to the hapless and incompetent Theresa May. We know the rest.
You can thank Putin and his troll farms in large part for that result. Many take the wholly erroneous view that Putin must be in favour of this or that and puts his resources behind that – no! This is wrong! Understand the long view of our friend, the ex-KGB Colonel – it doesn’t matter who or what gets supported, be it Brexit or Trump or whatever, so long as the status quo is upset, the populace confused, demoralised and set against each other, all trust and certainty removed, truth becomes lies and vice versa, all with the intent of weakening those who might stand in his way. Honestly, do we need to spell this out? Have things become that bad? Anyway – thanks Jim – we’re on the same page.

Editor
Reply to  Adrian Mann
October 22, 2019 1:03 am

Adrian

Ah! You are obviously one of those who believes the only correct opinion is the one they hold and anyone holding a different view must therefore be a cretin.

In pursuing this belief you have put together a travesty of the truth

“Once safely in power, Cameron waited until the last possible moment to actually allow the Referendum to take place, which as we now know, delivered the unthinkable – a majority in favour of leaving the EU.”

Cameron campaigned for a referendum during the April/May 2015 election campaign. (he was in a coalition govt at that time and had no mandate from his partners to seek a referendum during the coalition)

He unexpectedly won an overall majority in 2015 -the first for 25 years -on the back of the promise.

On being elected in 2015 it was the first thing he did with a series of bills in parliament that Mp’s overwhelmingly endorsed. The referendum was to take place in June 2016. His term of office was to end in May 2020.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum

So it was not the ‘last possible moment’ but the ‘first possible moment.’

The elite and those who believe their fellow voters are cretins, badly misjudged the mood of the people. If it had been a General election the results would have been 400 seats for leave and 250 for remain, so in effect it was a landslide.

Please do not distort facts in order to smear everyone you disagree with. We have had a 45 year long test drive of the defective EU test model. Surely that is long enough for us to know the nature of the beast?

tonyb

bonbon
Reply to  jim hogg
October 22, 2019 5:17 am

“The majority of voters over 65 voted to leave and the majority of voters under 25 voted to remain in the EU. Approximately a million of those from the older age group who voted to leave are estimated to have died since.”
Interesting how the Remoaners count the dead. If you look at Liverpool Life Pathway. the is indeed an effort to dispatch the old and sick underway.

Now where have we seen that before? How about Action T4? The Berlin Health Ministry, address Tiergarten 4, compiled a list of those lives not worth living and kept it secret until WWII broke out, in case of uproar. The first victims of WWII were German citizens.

Deplorable and damning Remoaner self-indictment.

pigs_in_space
Reply to  kramer
October 21, 2019 11:41 am

Re-votes are popular in the EU elite.
Once they managed to do that trick to the Irish all they needed was to pay some old French cretin Giscard to cobble together masses of gobbledeegook, rebrand it to something vaguely Portuguese sounding, and they always get their way.
I am almost sure there will be a “2nd referendum” for exactly the same reasons.

Editor
Reply to  pigs_in_space
October 21, 2019 12:11 pm

pigs in space

The EU resolutely ploughs on in order to fulfil the ideals of the ‘project’ and do not care how they secure their goals.

As Juncker said on the French referendum over the EU constitution “If it’s a Yes, we will say ‘on we go’, and if it’s a No we will say ‘we continue’,”

On British calls for a referendum over Lisbon Treaty “Of course there will be transfers of sovereignty. But would I be intelligent to draw the attention of public opinion to this fact?,”

“We decree something then float it and wait some time to see what happens . If no clamour occurs and no big fuss follows because most people do not grasp what had been decided we continue step by step until the point of no return is reached”

Millions have been thrown on the unemployment scrapheap through their policies, the Euro is unsustainable in its current form.

The time has been and gone for the UK in the EU and the EU itself. It is an artificial construct which becomes ever more unwieldy as more countries join and many of those within it resent the political animal it has become, welded together by a currency that can never work without causing huge imbalances between North and South

tonyb

Alan the Brit
Reply to  kramer
October 21, 2019 1:47 pm

It peeves me deeply that the ignorance, wilful or just arrogance, of the journos & politicians who keep referring to Britian as “leaving Europe”, NOT that Britian is “Leaving the EU”!, they are two distinctly differnet entities! The EU contains 28 (hopefully soon to be just 27) countries & is simply or even sinisterly a political construct, yet geographically, there are 42 countries in “Europe”! This ignorance is largely deliberate to cast Brexiteers as racists & or predjudiced against Johnny Foreigner! (Which we ain’t!)

ghalfrunt
October 21, 2019 3:39 am

When Brexit was voted for by a very small majority, those voting only knew what was supposed to be the truth which was unsupported by facts. Many of course simply voted for leave because they wanted to limit immigration (now many non uk citizens have left the uk is lacking doctors nurses carers and at the low end of pay fruit and vegetable pickers on farms. )

Now we know that industry will leave (just in time manufacture will find customs a cost) fruit and veg will cost more, research funding will be reduced, farm subsidies will have to be paid by uk not eu, supply of drugs will be compromised, travel to eu countries will cost (driving permits, health insurance, etc.), sharing security info will be reduced, etc, etc.

So now is the time for an informed referendum .

this is what democracy is about – people having a choice with valid information.

Rich Davis
Reply to  ghalfrunt
October 21, 2019 4:06 am

and don’t forget that Dutch flowers will wilt in queue! Oh the humanity! Sovereignty is not worth the dear price, is it, half runt?

Rod Evans
Reply to  ghalfrunt
October 21, 2019 4:50 am

The over played line “the voters didn’t know what they were voting for” is nonsense.
The people who voted Leave knew exactly what they were voting for. They were voting for independence and the return of UK sovereignty. The last three plus years of confusion regarding trade terms and such are side issues, molehills made into mountains by the Europhiles desperate to stop the UK leaving the totalitarian EU. The will of the people as expressed in that referendum was the largest vote and the largest majority ever seen in a British political question. It gave a clear unambiguous instruction to politicians, nothing has changed the peoples’ opinion. A majority of 1.3 million said leave, and leave we will.

George Lawson
Reply to  Rod Evans
October 21, 2019 10:40 am

Well said Rod. What I don’t understand from people like Jim Hogg, is why they consider the votes of people aged 25 and under are more important than the votes of those aged over 25. Do they think the immature youngsters have more common sense than their elder brethren who might have two or three times a lifetimes experience on which to consider which way to vote? What are we older members of society voting for if it is not for the long term good of the country we love and for the ultimate good of those who are following in our footsteps? And why do they always say that Brexit is for the benefit of the rich when many of the rich have come out strongly against leaving the EU? Were 52 per cent of the voters all rich? Jim Hogg is obviously one of the left wing members of society who have no faith in our ability as a nation to stand on our own two feet, and will always spout any untruth to support that view.

MarkW
Reply to  George Lawson
October 21, 2019 12:16 pm

The youth have been raised to believe that the bigger government gets, the more free stuff they get.

Editor
Reply to  Rod Evans
October 21, 2019 11:50 am

Rod

If after a 45 year ‘test drive’ of the EU model we still don’t know whether we like it or not, then we may as well all give up. Of course we knew EXACTLY what we were voting for but the elite didn’t expect the answer they got

tonyb

pigs_in_space
Reply to  tonyb
October 21, 2019 12:28 pm

If you study the history of British referenda, you will find they have a marvellous repetitive pattern of confirming what the goverment wanted as a result all along.

This ruse appears to have worked like a magic spell for decades, which is why Moron Cameron wanted to put the EU “to be or not be” argument to bed for once and forever.

He assumed it would follow the same logic as the previous EU referendum in the 70s, the Welsh & Scottish independence referendum of the 70s, and some others which resembled Margaret’s struggle with the miners (as sort of referendum “them against us” reinforced by the COAL is causing climate change meme supported by that cretin Houghton at the met office…)
The recent Scottish independence vote as where the elite admittedly began to struggle as the vote was close, but failed to heed the warning, the public were wising up fast….

The crap magicians failed most spectacularly in 2016 because by this time Joe public had enough of being taken for c..nts by the Westminster gravy after being lied to by Gordon Brown, who sold all the Gold, Teflon Tony who destroyed the British nuclear power industry, then invented a war, staggered to get his service men protected from being blown to bits by middle eastern Jihadies who were also getting wise to the bal-bla…

Fact is, in the age of the internet you can fool some people some of the time, but trying to fool them all the time is gonna come back and bite you big time…

Those arrogant multi millionaire parasites, crappers like Verhofstedt, all needed a lesson in democracy, something the Poles are doing on the cheap by keeping burning coal and refusing to exchange their zloties for Euros.

The most important political change in British history took place under Cromwell according to Cristopher Hill.

Brexit by comparison is a little sideshow, everyone will have forgotten all about by 2021 as they struggle to bail the remains of the EU out of the next recession….”up sh..t creek without a paddle” this time.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  ghalfrunt
October 21, 2019 5:20 am

wtf
all those idiotic claims
so did uk have no meds services or food priorly?
nope.
if it reverted to as was than thatd be good
and of a shitload of walkin benefits and housing bludgers left..wouldnt that be rather good?

MarkW
Reply to  ghalfrunt
October 21, 2019 7:35 am

That’s the socialist way.
Keep voting until we can finally steal the election.

Reply to  ghalfrunt
October 21, 2019 10:49 am

Runt, the UK is a net contributer to the EU budget. This means we give the EU lots, they return SOME of it to the UK as farm subsidies etc.

IE we pay for all the EU funds returned to us.

Editor
Reply to  ghalfrunt
October 21, 2019 11:55 am

ghalfrunt

We have been in the EU for 45 years. How long a test drive of a defective model do we need? Of course we knew all the issues inside out which is why such a large number voted to leave. If it had been a parliamentary election there were 400 seats voting leave and only 250 voting stay so it was a landslide. Why are you trying to rewrite history?

tonyb

Patrick MJD
October 21, 2019 5:28 am

I see no-one mentions the start of the rot by Heath in 1973. No vote, no mandate, no nothing. He just did it, effective Jan 1st 1974!

Peter Charles
October 21, 2019 5:32 am

That is utter rot on several levels, Brexit does not feature in any meaningful way. The first is that Theresa May in her last gasps as Prime Minister committed the UK to exactly that, carbon neutral by 2050. The second is that there are still some leaders with a working brain in places like Poland and the Visegards who recognise the commitment for the stupidity it is as well as the vicious effect of such a policy on both economic and social matters.

Carbon neutral is the epitome of having your cake and eating it. The UK has for instance already agreed to phase out fossil fuel engines and even oil and gas for use in home heating and cooking. To achieve this requires doubling electricity generation at a minimum and likely three times, a ridiculous requirement way beyond current abilities. Few people understand that carbon neutral means returning to how we lived in the 1950s, cars relegated to rural areas and the middle classes and above, hardly any air travel which means goodbye package holidays, cramped and shared accommodation and much, much more, or actually less in this case.

son of mulder
October 21, 2019 6:24 am

If the EU really believe there is a Climate Emergency then they should veto an extension to the Brexit deadline and the UK can leave the EU on World Trade terms and the EU can get on with “saving the planet”.

ResourceGuy
Reply to  son of mulder
October 21, 2019 8:49 am

Only on Wednesdays

MarkW
October 21, 2019 7:17 am

So, they are saying that despite the fact that they want to control every aspect of everyone’s lives, that they themselves can’t walk and chew gum at the same time.

ResourceGuy
October 21, 2019 7:30 am

Get a clue, Brussels has a target on your back. But I guess you knew that with the country-wide referendum that continues to be resisted

whiten
October 21, 2019 2:10 pm

“UN Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC)”
———–

Definitely correction needed there;

UNFCCC) = UN Fascistic Congress on Climate Change. (Fascistic, Fascist open to choice)

There corrected.

cheers

ATheoK
October 21, 2019 4:33 pm

“Brexit is distracting appointed EU officials from dictating climate policy to democratically elected nation state governments.”

How does that work, exactly?
European Union government isn’t big enough?
Or does it mean that workers are too busy chatting each other up while saying nasty things about England?

Perhaps it means that no other country is buying the falsehoods EU is feeding them about currency, greater good and how the unelected bureaucracy cares one iota about what member states think?

This isn’t about EU refusing to allow England to govern it’s own affairs. This about every other less dominant country wanting out of the bad deal and horrendous government EU dictates to their vassal countries.

Olen
October 21, 2019 5:57 pm

Britain is now with Brexit doing what the 13 colonies did to them, obtaining independence.

pigs_in_space
October 21, 2019 10:00 pm

3 nasties.
People have short memories, the shape of things to come…

1/ Europe’s new framework for resolving banks includes a ‘bail-in’ mechanism that aims to ensure that banks’ shareholders and creditors pay their share of costs, and which was first used to resolve the 2013 banking crisis in Cyprus (All other deposits exceeding €100.000 remained in the ‘bad’ Laiki Bank).
Ie. the big banks get paid, the small shareholder gets robbed.

Which came from this wonderful idea. Remember how the Irish had to vote twice?

2/ The post-2008 Irish banking crisis was the situation whereby, due to the Great Recession, a number of Irish financial institutions faced almost imminent collapse due to insolvency. In response, the Irish government instigated a €64 billion bank bailout..impoverished Ireland, and led to massive debt deflation..
Ie. the big banks get paid, the state/taxpayer gets robbed.

Which was practice for:-

3/ Greece
To avoid default, the EU loaned Greece enough to continue making payments.

Since the debt crisis began in 2010, the various European authorities and private investors have loaned Greece nearly 320 billion euros.
It was the biggest financial rescue of a bankrupt country in history.
As of January 2019, Greece has only repaid 41.6 billion euros. It has scheduled debt payments beyond 2060.
In return for the loan, the EU required Greece to adopt austerity measures (which sparked massive debt deflation), -impoverished & mortgaged the future of the entire population for the next 40 years..

3a/ As part of the same policy following the Baltic overheating and the collapse of their housing price crisis, Lithuania & Latvia were forced down a similar debt deflation route post 2009, with the result a good sized part of the productive young population moved elsewhere…leaving unproductive retired people to live on a diminishing wealth post soviet crock economy, with price inflation to match.

The Eurocrappers also forced Lithuania to close their only (successful) nuclear power plant, forcing electricity prices through the roof, while forcing them to import energy from nearby Belarus, and are pursuing Estonia to stop using Oil shale, while forcing them to install unreliable wind farms.

And there are those on here that suggest the UK should remain part of all this?
A failed and miserable band of Eurocrats, with their proven failed low growth or plain dumb austerity, population-impoverishing strategies & their carbon zero crap to euthanase the old.

We should continue to reward them for failure?

Patrick MJD
Reply to  pigs_in_space
October 21, 2019 10:26 pm

Very good post. Australia is heading down the path of “bail-in” measures when the big crash happens. That means anyone with savings, such as superannuation, will lose it all to the banks. There is also talk of implementing MMT. The “T” stands for theory!! When the crash comes, it will make 1929 and 2008 look like a walks in the park.

bonbon
Reply to  pigs_in_space
October 22, 2019 5:40 am

Very good points.
But, as I remarked above, Britain has its very own homegrown Liverpool Life Pathway. Now BoJo did mention the NHS, but that is not enough. It looks like Obama’s behaviorists Orszag and “Easy kill” Emanuel based Obamacare on the NHS.

Richard S Courtney
October 22, 2019 12:31 am

Eric Worrall,

Among your misunderstandings in your above article, you comment on what you say is, “the delicious spectacle of global climate action held up by Brexit chaos”, and several comments beneath your article accept that assumption.

I write to suggest you are mistaking an excuse as being a cause.

Each EU Member has a right to veto any such “climate action”, several EU Members would oppose any “climate action”, and Brexit has no affect on EU deliberations about “climate action”.

Richard

bonbon
Reply to  Richard S Courtney
October 22, 2019 5:33 am

Not quite true. Ursula van der Leyen mentions, as does Blair (echo each other), removing the veto option, calling it something vague.
This is the aim of the European Defense Union, which apparently Brexit does not touch at all.
Just imagine, Brexit goes through, and British forces are called to intervene in Africa by a Brussels chain of command?
That makes CO2 look like a joke.

Richard S Courtney
Reply to  bonbon
October 22, 2019 9:06 am

bonbon,

Your disinformation cannot be permitted to stand.

All 28 EU Member states (27 after Brexit) must agree for any change to EU rule or law to be enacted.
What some people may want does not alter the reality.

Richard

Richard Jones
October 22, 2019 8:18 am

Using a flag intended to represent the brexiters vision of an “EUSSR” flag is insulting and shows disrespect to the millions of people who suffered in the gulags of the USSR. My grandfather was forced to build a runway with his bare hands in Murmansk because he had served in the Polish Army. he was lucky to survive, millions did not. The EU may have its faults, but it does not have show trials, political exile, gulags or executions. Comparing the EU with the USSR is abhorrent.

pigs_in_space
October 23, 2019 12:11 am

Errr R-J.
You clearly don’t live in modern Russia.
I do.
It’s an authoritarian quasi crony capitalist mafia construct relying on central planning and monopolising every single media to crush dissent.
It evolved out of the SAME KGB guys that ran East Germany for decades.
Control freaks all of them.

The BBC is very little different these to show just ONE.
There is no dissenting opinion possible, while state sanctioned media gets the green light..
They are also a band of control freaks, run by lawyers.

FFS extinction reb get police protection, while those that disagree get taken to court for defending people’s rights to go about their legit business.

Your Grand-dad would have been sent to work just after the 2nd world war (in this part of the world the German POW often had to build houses for the new sovietisation of the Baltic states).

If memory serves me right your grand-dad would have been sent to forced labour during the STALIN period, which came to an end at the end of the 50s.
This has not been repeated despite the Arms race and Brezhnev stagnation that followed.
That was the mark of the USSR, while subsidising industries that were bound to fail.
The similarities with the EU could not be more striking.

If I remember right, all those who had sympathies with 30s Germany, during the war years were interned in the UK. Right or wrong it’s not so democratic.

March forward 70+ years, and I recall the ones suffering in homeless Germany, are native Germans, not Syrian refugees who are immediately housed and given work to do.
What is the difference shivering to death under a railway bridge in Germany or building a runway in Murmansk? They all DIE.

The EU then allows this obvious disconnect to exist and sponsors 1000s working for poverty pay in Germany at 1 euro per hour.

Please don’t tell me it’s not so!
The USSR Stalin period was then followed by the “thaw” of the Kruschev years, who was kicked out because the Soviet grain harvest repeatedly failed.

This was due to fooling with nature, as well as diverting rivers and other stupid human experiments which only the EU is now capable of rivalling. (The same arrogance is on abundant display, claiming that humans change the climate, and alternative mega-unreliable systems must be put in their place).

Follow the EU dialogue and your own harvests will fail, because they can’t even get the weather right for 2019, never mind forecast if it snows this winter or not!
(It’s unseasonally cold right now in Scandinavia, and the late spring frosts were said CAN NEVER HAPPEN, cos climate change means it’s hotter init!)

The EU is subsidising farming through the CAP for decades.
It generates vast waste.
That alone is a threat to sustainability, but they daren’t admit it.

It also subsidises all kinds of energy schemes and crony capitalism of all shapes ESPECIALLY banking.
It provides central planning of the same disastrous mono industry scale as the USSR did, and it also generates unemployment as well as sanctions against states and even people they don’t like (Anyone see the elected governments of Italy and Hungary being publically vilified?).

The EU also creates zombie banks and forces whole generations into mass unemployment.
(as has just happened-the lost youth decade).

If you don’t get the parallels with the USSR as being clear and obvious, including the socialism inherent in taxing rich states into the ground (hey how about Germany again!) while giving gigantic sums of money to failed ones that have nothing, processed by the banking cronies, you ain’t understood the first principles of communism.
The EUSSR is a construct, as a quasi religious cult, very much like the Politburo was in the USSR, and their vassal states of the 80s.

Wilco
October 23, 2019 7:07 am

Hi all,

Just some thoughts from the Netherlands on this.

It’s all a big scam, those proposed actions on climate change.

The good thing is the Britts have nothing to do with it, neither are we as a world population.
Thanks for that.

The worse thing is that those proposed action on climat change and CO2 reduction are not voluntary in the European Union. They are manadatory and will be become much severe when the new head of the EU commision Ursula von der Leyen presents her new green deal for Europe. Let’s hope it goes the same way as in the US.

So the Britts are good to leave the EU and go about their own business.
And the EU bureaucrats got a new excuse for the delay in executing their policy.

The whole thing has nothing to do with climate, emissions or fossli fuels. It’s all about making money.

Amber
October 23, 2019 3:21 pm

Brexit isn’t holding up the climate change agenda the way some kooks say ?
No afraid not .
The truth is Trump has cut off the money supply and given other leaders some courage .
The fraud has been revealed and the globalist objectives unwinding .

What people see is under a globalist agenda your vote isn’t worth shit .
The UK is very compromised already or this would have been done .

The new “progressive ” agenda is vote as we tell you or you are the enemy .

Up till now the bully’s have gotten away with it but they are now going to be taking incoming .

Przemysław Abramowski
October 28, 2019 4:57 pm

One comment from Poland the culprit…
Poland has its power system based on coal, 80%. We obviously can’t decarbonize just like that. To make matters worse, Poland has relatively poor renewable energy resources – mostly cloudy winters, less wind even than in Germany, zero tides and big waves in the Baltic (waves are notoriously choppy but that doesn’t make them easily converted to electrical power), not much precipitation and thus poor prospects for hydropower. However, we are rich in coal, some huge deposits have never been mined. Poland could pursue nuclear, but then you have all this outcry that this is suicide etc. Germany wants to get rid of their nuclear power – how are they going to react if we build a few plants over the border? I have no idea how the EU wants to square all that.

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