100 Percent Renewable Cities – Is the Mayor of Porkopolis Smarter than a 5th Grader?

Cincinnati, aptly the home of the Flying Pig Marathon, and formerly known as Porkopolis, has been the 100th city to fight climate change by pledging to be powered 100% by renewable energy. Chances of success are likely to be high, according to the mayor. As a former Cincy resident who knows the climate for wind and solar, I say, in a pig’s eye. BTW if you’ve never had it, and want to try something truly unique, try this Cincinnati Chili mix.  – Anthony


By Steve Goreham

Mayors in more than 100 US cities have announced plans to transition their electrical power systems to 100 percent renewable by 2050. They propose replacement of traditional coal, natural gas, and nuclear generating stations with wind, solar, and wood-fired stations. But none of these mayors has a plausible idea of how to meet their commitment.

In December, Cincinnati became the one-hundredth US city to commit to 100 percent electricity from renewable sources, with a target to achieve this goal by 2035. Cincinnati Mayor John Cranley stated, “It has become clear that cities will lead the global effort to fight climate change, and Cincinnati is on the front lines.” Cleveland Mayor Frank Jackson also pledged to reach 100 percent renewable electricity by 2050 as part of the city’s 2018 Climate Action Plan.

But these announcements appear to be a folk tale worthy of the Brothers Grimm.

In 2018, renewables provided less than 3 percent of Ohio’s electricity, which came 47 percent from coal, 35 percent from natural gas, and 15 percent from nuclear generators. Mayors Cranley and Jackson appear to have failed to consider the cost or scale of their energy change commitments.

As part of the effort, the Ohio Power Siting Board approved the Icebreaker Wind Facility last July. The Icebreaker project would initially construct six 3.5-gigawatt wind turbines in Lake Erie, ten miles off the coast of Cleveland, at an estimated cost of $126 million. The project would annually produce only about 75 gigawatt-hours of electricity, but plans call for an expansion to over 1,000 offshore wind towers.

Renewable energy is fashionable, but also expensive. The Icebreaker wind turbines cost $21 million each, or about six times the US market price for wind turbines, which is about $1 million per megawatt. The cost for expansion to 1,000 turbines would approach $20 billion. These renewable system costs will be in addition to existing power generation plants, 90 percent of which must be maintained to provide security of electricity supply when the wind doesn’t blow and the sun doesn’t shine.

In 2017, Ohio residents consumed 119,000 gigawatt-hours of electrical power. If completed, the 1,000 wind turbines of the expanded $20 billion Icebreaker project would deliver about 12,000 gigawatt-hours, or only about 10 percent of Ohio’s electricity need.

Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey and St. Paul Mayor Melvin Carter pledged their cities to 100 percent renewables by 2030. Major wind system build-outs during the last five years boosted Minnesota to the eighth-leading wind energy state in the US. Renewables now provide about 27 percent of the state’s electricity. But Minnesota residents are paying for it. Over the last nine years, Minnesota power prices increased 34 percent, compared to the US average price rise of 7 percent.

In Wisconsin, Madison Mayor Paul Soglin announced last July the city’s commitment to 100 percent renewable electricity by 2050. But Wisconsin is not exactly the sun belt. Traditional generating stations provide 92 percent of the state’s electrical power and Wisconsin is a poor location for both wind and solar.

Not to be deterred, the City of Madison announced in 2017, a contract for five “utility-scale” solar arrays that would deliver 20 megawatt-hours of electricity per year. But Wisconsin consumes 65,000 gigawatt-hours of electricity each year. More than thirty thousand such “utility-scale” solar projects would be needed to supply just one percent of Wisconsin’s electricity.

City officials in Atlanta pledged to reach 100 percent renewables by 2035, but have been honest about the fact that they don’t know how to do it. Only about 6 percent of Atlanta’s electricity comes from renewable sources, about the same amount as the state of Georgia. So, Atlanta proposes purchasing large amounts of renewable energy credits from wind and solar generators in other states, so that they can claim their green energy status.

Energy does not have color. No one can tell whether the electricity from their wall outlet is green or provided by a coal-fired plant. Purchasing renewable credits from other locations is the slight-of-hand method that allows city mayors to claim 100 percent renewable status.

Maybe these mayors have learned a way to spin climate change straw into gold. Cincinnati, Cleveland, Minneapolis, St. Paul, Atlanta, and several other cities will receive $2.5 million grants from the Bloomberg Philanthropies group of billionaire Michael Bloomberg for their efforts to “fight climate change.” Unfortunatly, these grants will only be a drop in the bucket compared to the billions in additional electricity costs that citizens will pay for renewable electricity programs.

California is the center of the 100-percent-renewables fable. More than 30 California cities have committed to 100 percent renewable electricity, including San Diego, San Francisco, and San Jose, as well as the state of California itself. The state is doing a great job of boosting electricity prices. According to the US Department of Energy, California 2017 residental electricity prices were 18.2 cents per kilowatt-hour, about 50 percent higher than any other state in the West. Look for California rates to double in the next two decades, driven by efforts to achieve high penetration of renewables.

khpsvqo3

So is your mayor smarter than a fifth grader? When it comes to energy policy, maybe not.


Originally published in The Western Journal. Republished here at the request of the author.

Steve Goreham is a speaker on the environment, business, and public policy and author of the book Outside the Green Box: Rethinking Sustainable Development.


Of course, no discussion of Cincinnati and animals flying can be complete without WKRP’s Turkey Drop, where their competing radio station had the call letters WPIG. I’ll just leave this here.

0 0 votes
Article Rating

Discover more from Watts Up With That?

Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.

135 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
February 20, 2019 12:32 pm

Energy does not have color. No one can tell whether the electricity from their wall outlet is green or provided by a coal-fired plant. Purchasing renewable credits from other locations is the slight-of-hand method that allows city mayors to claim 100 percent renewable status.

Not really true. Grid operators can “wheel” electricity from a producer to a consumer who contract with each other for a price per MWh, and contract with the grid for a price to transport it. “Wheeling” is a common practice for electric grids. It’s opposed to “dealing” which means the grid buys from a producer and sells to a consumer at a different price.

“Wheeling and dealing” are old terms dating from the age of carters moving goods around from farms to markets etc. Wheeling allowed the carter a definite price, and dealing allowed the carter a chance at a bigger profit, but with attached risk.

I may be wrong, but I suspect that electric grids and natural gas pipelines are the only forms of “transportation” where both wheeling and dealing are still common practices.

So it’s perfectly true to say that a utility can purchase “green” electricity from a generator far away. There is perhaps the possibility of abuse, depending on the integrity of the participants, but it doesn’t matter that there are different electrons coming out from those that went in. That’s just the way grids work.

troe
February 20, 2019 12:33 pm

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

“Verified account

@AOC
6h6 hours ago
More
While the right keeps screeching on calling everything “socialism” (as nations w/ univ healthcare + better work standards enjoy better health & work life than Americans),”

I thought she called herself a Democratic Socialist. So now she’s on the right. I’m going left then

old engineer
February 20, 2019 12:35 pm

While this post is mostly about Cincinnati, if you live in a U.S city, it is coming to your city too. The first you may hear about it may be an announcement in your local paper of a public hearing TONIGHT. But you can bet that the local Sierra Club has know about it for months, and probably had input to the plan as a “stakeholder.”

This is not something to mock. It is a serious plan to kill opposition to the Paris Accords by “death by a thousand little cuts.” The proponents are well organized and well funded. The city of San Antonio, Texas, just received a 2.5 million dollar “grant” from Blumberg to continue work on their plan.

Two nights ago, I attended a public hearing on the San Antonio, Texas, “Climate Action Plan”, put on by the local municipally owned utility, CPS Energy. The hearing was about CPS’s plan to be (mostly) carbon-neutral by 2040. There were 35 people who spoke, and all but about 6, were people who in some way were involved in developing the plan. If they found any fault with the plan, it was that the actions specified weren’t happening soon enough. So of course the local paper reports that “citizens were overwhelmingly in favor of the plan.”

Each person had 2 minutes to speak. I had signed up to speak. I knew that there was not time to explain why the whole plan was a bad idea. So I chose only one point of the plan to comment on. The CPS Energy plan was to be have 50% of their electricity supplied by wind and solar, with “storage” as the backup.

In my two minutes I pointed out that utility size storage does not now exist, and that the only path to CO2 emission free power generation in the next 22 years was nuclear. I doubt I made any impression at all.

Those of us who are skeptics of CAGW are not going to be able to stop this tidal wave. We can only be aware that it is coming and make plans for how to ride out the coming economic disruption .

troe
February 20, 2019 12:55 pm

Former Vice President Al Gore said Democratic Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam can fulfill his “racial reconciliation” pledge by opposing the Atlantic Coast pipeline, which he called a “racist rip-off.”

Pope Gore was speaking to a primarily black audience. No shame at all.

Caligula Jones
Reply to  troe
February 21, 2019 9:27 am

Didn’t the church stop selling indulgences centuries ago?

Oh, sorry, this is the New Church of Climate Alarmism.

In that case, Pope St. Gore should offer Saudi Arabia and Iran, etc., complete absolution from their horrid crimes against humanity if they just give up selling oil.

yarpos
February 20, 2019 1:10 pm

These initiatives are always successful because they only exists on spreadsheets that ignore reality.

In Australia the ACT (similar deal to Washington DC) claims to be 100% renewable shortly. It is a territory totally embedded in the economically largest, most energy consuming, primarily coal powered State in the country. It beggars belief that the words come out of their mouths , even if they are politicians. All they have achieved is the usual higher costs.

Chris Hanley
Reply to  yarpos
February 20, 2019 2:36 pm

I’ll believe that when they cut themselves off from the national grid.

February 20, 2019 1:23 pm

We really do have great chili.

Andrew

SMC
Reply to  Bad Andrew
February 20, 2019 4:48 pm

Ugh… Skyline? Goldstar?… really?

Reply to  SMC
February 21, 2019 5:31 am

Yes. And a few other independents! YUM!

Andrew

shrnfr
February 20, 2019 1:25 pm

Hey, they made it work in Bartertown, and they have the pigs…

February 20, 2019 1:26 pm

Pigs are flying again in Porkopolis. With less than 3 percent of Ohio’s electricity coming from ‘renewables’, 47 percent from coal, 35 percent from natural gas, and 15 percent from nuclear generators, the pigs may be landing quite soon.

Mike H
Reply to  Nicholas William Tesdorf
February 20, 2019 1:38 pm

Along with the chickens coming home to roost.

Barbara
Reply to  Mike H
February 20, 2019 4:07 pm

I think that’s turkeys. 😉

Chris Hanley
February 20, 2019 1:32 pm

It’s a puzzle why mayors of cities like Cincinnati would be so afraid of a 2C – 3C rise in their annual average temperature in 80 years — even assuming the IPCC unlikely predictions were to eventuate — to the extent of ruining the economy and exposing their population to deadly winter weather extremes.
Of course the population would gradually move elsewhere maybe Texas.
An annual average temperature map of the US is difficult to find:
http://www.virginiaplaces.org/climate/graphics/meandailytemp.gif
An isotherm map from 1823 appears about the same for the US:
http://libweb5.princeton.edu/visual_materials/maps/websites/thematic-maps/quantitative/meteorology/woodbridge-map-1823.jpg

February 20, 2019 1:34 pm

Regarding the burning of wood, well yes one can say that it is a renewable, with a interval of so many years. CO2 absorbed, burn, CO2 is released.

So its neutral, but so what. We the brighter ones know that CO2 is a good gas, essential for all life, but try telling that to the Greens.

Still if the object of the exercise is to get the major elected, then it seems to work,.

MJE

Louis Hooffstetter
Reply to  Michael
February 20, 2019 1:59 pm

Wood is an OK fuel source but not the best:

BTUs Produced per Ton:
Ethanol: 11.8 million (Net) Ethanol produces 18.3 million BTUs/ton, but requires 6.5 million BTUs / ton to make. Note: in 2017, 43% of US corn production was used to make ethanol
Wood: 17 to 19 million (depending on species of wood)
Coal: 20 to 29 million (depending on grade)
Crude Oil: 36 to 39 million
Propane (LPG) 42.6 million
Natural Gas (LNG): 44.6 million

Keith Sketchley
Reply to  Louis Hooffstetter
February 20, 2019 2:13 pm

For me, wood is the best fuel source because…
.
1) I can’t grow corn on my property ( no ethanol )
2) There is no coal to mine on my property
3) There is no crude oil on my property
4) Ditto for propane and natural gas.
.
I can harvest all the fuel I need for heat with dead wood on the forest floor. It’s going to rot if I don’t utilize it, and by cleaning up the forest floor of dead wood, I reduce the risk of wild fires destroying my neighbors homes.

On the outer Barcoo
Reply to  Keith Sketchley
February 20, 2019 5:23 pm

And your neighbors will just have to ‘suck up’ the nasties in wood-smoke … great plan.

Thomas Englert
Reply to  Louis Hooffstetter
February 20, 2019 7:49 pm

Louis,
Propane has 2516 btu/ cf, Nat Gas only 1030 btu/ cf.

When I buy LPG, it’s by volume (gallons), not weight.

Bruce of Newcastle
February 20, 2019 1:50 pm

Maybe they should run their town on 100% renewable methane and rename the place Bartertown.
Tina Turner can be Mayor.

February 20, 2019 1:51 pm

Solar and wind power are relatively low cost. If a city can lock in for all the production from a wind or solar generator that has priority access to a large market that accepts energy whenever it is available, the cost is quite low. This arrangements avoids the real cost of delivering energy on demand, which is the domain of dispatchable generators.

In Australia, South Australia has an abundance of wind generators. The wholesale price often swings negative to force wind generators to reduce output and occasionally reaches for the stars when wind is low and demand is high. The price is capped at an astronomical $14,500/MWh.

In Queensland the intermittency problem is different. The state has 30% of households with rooftop solar and it is drenched in sunshine. In the cooler months, when air-conditioning demand is low, the lunchtime wholesale price now goes negative. The grid scale wind farms are forced to cut back because they do not want to export money as well as energy.

SA has managed 50% market share from intermittents but it only achieves that because it has high capacity connections to other states that act like enormous batteries of infinite capacity. Queensland only has about 10% market share but the intermittency is already creating huge swings in wholesale price.

So the first city that locks in a long term contract to take power from an intermittent ambient generator can do well providing the rest of the network is treated as a big battery. As more cities get into the act it becomes increasing expensive to absorb the intermittency. Ultimately it works out lower cost for everyone to go off grid because intermittents offer little benefit of scale and minor benefit of geographic diversity, which is offset by the high cost of transmission from dispersed sources working at low capacity factors.

The blog has a mistake regarding the City of Maddison the proposed solar generators will produce about 20 gigawatthours not 20 megawatt hours.

William
Reply to  RickWill
February 20, 2019 2:28 pm

No, wind and solar are NOT relatively low cost. Here in the eastern US, coal, combined cycle natural gas and nuclear produce power for 1.6 to 3.6 cents/kw-hr… 24/7. The maintenance ALONE for off-shore wind runs 5 cents/kw-hr, backup power another 3 cents/kw-hr to maintain low efficiency gas turbines. Given the opportunity cost of up front capital, neither wind nor solar will ever make a dime.

Reply to  William
February 20, 2019 3:26 pm

Recent auction prices for wind and solar average USD50/MWh:
http://euanmearns.com/a-review-of-recent-solar-wind-auction-prices/
As you can see, in well-selected locations auction prices are as low as USD17/MWh.

Keep in mind this is for new capacity. Your figures for coal and nuclear are based on generators where financing costs are no longer significant. The cost would be more like USD80/MWh for new capacity for coal and nuclear but both forms of generation face increasing difficulty in getting approvals.

If a city can get an auction price of USD20/MWh to USD35/MWh for all its power it is going to get a good deal providing it can let the network deal with the intermittency. All the other network users pay the cost of intermittency unless the network already has large hydro buffers that can ramp up and down easily at no cost.

Determining the cost of intermittency is challenging. Most politicians are seduced by the low auction prices for wind and solar and have no idea how a grid operates. The vast majority have no clue about on-demand systems. In Australia, those stuck with grid power are gradually being introduced to “load management” whereby the grid operator will cut off ground of consumers where there is not enough generation to meet demand.

Reply to  RickWill
February 20, 2019 7:15 pm

now work out what they are selling carbon credits for, as well as elecricity.

Bruce Cobb
February 20, 2019 1:56 pm

Burning wood to produce electricity is just dumb. It is uneconomical, since you have to go further and further afield to bring in your fuel. The trucking costs are what kill it. And the environmental consequences are severe. You have to use everything, so we’re talking clear-cutting. There are better uses for trees.

Melvyn Dackombe
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
February 21, 2019 5:33 am

How about the use of biomas by the Drax power plant in England.

The material comes from trees in the USA and shipped to England.

Drax power station sits on coal reserves !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Michael Keal
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
February 21, 2019 11:59 am

The whole renewables argument rests on CO2. We’re all gonna fry drown etc. in x + 10 years were x=today’s date unless we stop emitting CO2.

On this basis surely it does not matter whether we burn trees that lived millions of years ago or only recently? C02 is C02 and its all sinful right?

Oh, and why is it that CO2 that comes out of China or a coal fired power station built by them apparently doesn’t count? Has this CO2 been sanctified by the someone from the Church of Global Warming, err, sorry forgot ‘the pause’, I mean Climate Change?

Walter Sobchak
February 20, 2019 1:59 pm

Cincinnati is 190 mi from Lake Erie. So the wind mills in the lake are of limited relevance. It also has more than 180 cloudy days per year, so don’t hold your breath about solar. Fortunately for them, there are lots of really big coal plants along the Ohio River.

Evan Jones
Editor
February 20, 2019 2:00 pm

Don’t you hear the choir now?
Listen to the animals sing.
Can’t you hear the slaughterhouse bells?
In the land of the pig, the butcher is king!
In the land of the pig, the butcher is king!

Pablo
February 20, 2019 2:12 pm

not sure about that map,,,,I live in Florida where I pay about 9.5 cents per kWh. I recently purchased a summer home in massachusetts. I’m paying over 25 cents per kWh there.

H.R.
Reply to  Pablo
February 20, 2019 5:55 pm

Statewide averages, Pablo. That’s the only way to come up with a single number for each state.

Philo
February 20, 2019 2:23 pm

I live in PA. One of the few clever, honest things the governments did some 20 years ago was institute an open power market. You choose your power supplier. If you want “green” you can get it for a price. If you want to save money there are plenty of suppliers with deals as low as 6 cents/kWh. The local power company usually is a bit higher, around 8-9 cents. The power amounts to about half the bill because the local power company gets a distribution fee and a few small gimmies, so the cost of electricity hovers around 8-10cents/kWh.

Even though the EIA says the average cost is 14+ cents/kWh, anybody can cut that nearly in half by shopping around. Their numbers don’t change the fact that regardless of price there is no way to supply 100% electrical power without somebody backing it up with fossil fuels.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Philo
February 21, 2019 5:30 am

“If you want “green” you can get it for a price.

All they really get is fleeced of their money.

Ladislav Toman
February 20, 2019 2:31 pm

Hi guys, can you please take more care when using the terms “power” and “energy”. Gigawatt-hours measure energy, not power as you stated in your article. On the other hand, power is measured in gigawatts (or watts). These terms can not be used interchangeably. Cheers

Davis
February 20, 2019 2:46 pm

Buy electricity from Manitoba. Renewable hydroelectric.

David Baird
February 20, 2019 3:01 pm

Hi Anthony,

From the Sioux City Journal March 10, 2010
“The Iowa Senate voted Tuesday to allow MidAmerican Energy Co. to boost electric consumer rates by $15 million to study the feasibility of building a nuclear plant in Iowa to generate electrical power.
House File 2399, which passed on a 37-13 vote, provides for an annual electrical bill rate rider for three years of $4 per residential customer, $15 per commercial customer and $1,100 for industrial customers to finance a three-year study to be reviewed annually by the Iowa Utilities Board.

However Mid American Energy is going full retard, and the Iowa skyline will naer be the same”.
https://midamericanenergy.com/our-renewable-energy-vision.aspx

From the map, Iowa’s rates now are in the 12-13 cents per KWH. It’s obvious Mid American is taking full advantage of Federal Funds to plaster Iowa with Eco-Crucifixes and when the gravy train stops, I think we now the result. Having gone through a couple brutally cold weeks this winter, I would feel much safer knowing Iowa had on line, a Nuke, Coal, Gas or Oil plants. I feel for those in cities going full retard. Maybe it’s time to leave, I don’t care to freeze in the cold if the wind isn’t blowing

I thought I would also share this Hot Dog sauce recipe.

https://www.geniuskitchen.com/recipe/famous-butler-hot-dog-shoppe-chili-sauce-19832

Flight Level
February 20, 2019 3:03 pm

Who cares of GWh, efficiency, availability ? A minority who knows what they mean.

Companies will produce installations, others will set them up, subcontractors will do this and that, all of course with income in mind.

Decision makers would obviously be proposed collateral revenues. And that’s all about it.

M Montgomery
February 20, 2019 3:27 pm

I happened to turn to the CSPAN coverage of the annual meeting of mayors last month. The biggest topic was their plans for 100% renewables and zero-carbon by 2050. There were a lot of grandiose generalities about “following the science” and “the technology tells us…”, but of course no details to share with everyone else for their mutual benefit, as you might otherwise expect. Also a lot of patting each other on the back for their brave commitments.

But even worse than that was the utter lack of curiosity or planning for any downside along the way. No mention of the troubles other countries are running in to and how we might avoid those mistakes. No notion of learning from others mistakes. Which shouldn’t surprise us. This is what passes for so-called ‘leadership’ in this climate-crazed world.

Is this just “stupid is as stupid does”? Or is it telling us that it’s not really about saving the planet?

H.R.
Reply to  M Montgomery
February 20, 2019 6:02 pm

No projects, no chance for a kickback or a rake. And it doesn’t matter whether or not a project is successful.

It’s that simple.

John F. Hultquist
February 20, 2019 3:55 pm

Cincy is famous for its chili houses — try the 5-way if you get to one.
That, of course, will negate the City’s CO2-free effort.
I can fix that for you. Send me a dollar and I’ll plant a tree.

Dk
Reply to  John F. Hultquist
February 20, 2019 8:16 pm

If there is a kroger or harris teeter close to where you live some have canned or frozen skyline chili. Not as good as from the restaurant. But when you need a fix in raleigh Nc it works. And no …. renewables won’t cover those 98 f days with 98% humidity coming off the river on a non windy week. I don’t miss those summer days.

Barbara
February 20, 2019 4:09 pm

ROFLMAO! Gawd, I loved that show. “As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly!” 😀

Reply to  Barbara
February 20, 2019 4:20 pm

Among the funniest minutes on TV.
(The red letters on the Central Trust building are now blue and say PNC.)

Dk
Reply to  Barbara
February 20, 2019 8:31 pm

The best ever episode of any sitcom. It is great to have it on DVD. A true classic to watch at thanksgiving or any time you really need to laugh

February 20, 2019 4:16 pm

Sorry to hear that Cincinnati has gone “green”. I grew up just across the river. (Went to HS at St X.). I have family that lives there.
(We had someone running for councilman come to my HS classroom. He was against building Riverfront Stadium. He wanted the money to be spent on public housing instead. His name was Jerry Springer.)
Maybe they could achieve their goal if they scrap all the solar and wind sh… and figure out a way to harness the results of putting “Cincinnati Chile” on a “White Castles”?
(“White Castles” were the original “sliders”.)

John F. Hultquist
Reply to  Gunga Din
February 20, 2019 4:28 pm

White Castles = small square burgers, with holes filled with onions.
N for $1, depending on the year. (There was a cheap chicken place, I liked better.)

Reply to  John F. Hultquist
February 20, 2019 4:54 pm

😎 MINCED onions AND a pickle. When I was a kid they were $0.16 a burger when they were over $0.25 everywhere else . I really did usually eat 10 at one sitting. (Might explain a few of my health issues today.8-)
Cincinnati Chile and White Castles each had a unique taste that you either loved or hated.
(Or maybe didn’t mind re-tasting later?8-)

PS The last time I ate Skyline, you could get a 5 way and substitute a baked potato for the spaghetti.
It was good.

H.R.
Reply to  Gunga Din
February 20, 2019 6:12 pm

You’re just a pup, Gunga Din. White Castles were 7¢ when I was a kid.

Those things set off a 3-alarm gallbladder attack followed by terminal indigestion now that I don’t have the cast iron stomach of my youth. But they aren’t kidding when they advertise, “The Taste People Crave.” Every once in a while, ya just gotta have a Rat Burger, hold the tail.

Dk
Reply to  H.R.
February 20, 2019 8:22 pm

A real extreme end of a late night out in clifton was camp Washington chili then the drive thru at the white castle near by.

Reply to  H.R.
February 21, 2019 2:04 pm

My favorite nick name was “Rectum Rockets”. But they are good!
(My only problem with them now that I’m older is that the taste tends to “repeat” at intervals.8-)

PS I could drive when the price was $0.16. When I was a kid they were bought for me. Never paid attention to the price.
PPS In some areas where they don’t have a White Castle you can find them in the frozen food section.

drednicolson
Reply to  H.R.
February 24, 2019 1:28 pm

The grease-to-meat ratio in those things beggars belief.

Verified by MonsterInsights