Guest essay by Eric Worrall
Governor Jerry Brown and Michael Bloomberg both appeared on NBC to attack President Trump’s views on Climate Change.
Bloomberg slams Trump on climate change, which Brown likens to Nazism
Michael Bloomberg slammed Donald Trump’s inaction on climate change on Sunday and said any candidate for president in 2020 – he himself might be one – must have a plan to deal with the problem.
At the same time, retiring California governor Jerry Brown likened the fight against climate change to the fight against Nazism during the second world war, saying: “We have an enemy … perhaps very much devastating in a similar way.”
Both men appeared on NBC’s Meet the Press. The billionaire former New York mayor said: “It would be a lot more helpful if we had a climate champion rather than a climate denier in the White House.
“You know, I’ve always thought Trump has a right to his opinions. But he doesn’t have a right to his own facts.”
A vocal critic of the coal industry, Bloomberg, whose fortune is estimated at $40bn and who spent $100m on his last mayoral race, has said he plans to make climate change a leading issue in the 2020 race, whether or not he runs.
“Any candidate for federal office better darn well have a plan to deal with the problem that the Trump science advisers say could, basically, end this world,” he said. “I can tell you one thing, I don’t know whether I’m going to run or not, but I will be out there demanding that anybody that’s running has a plan.”
…
Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/dec/30/michael-bloomberg-slams-trump-climate-change
The NBC page for that episode of Meet the Press is available here.
2 Maine governors who used their office to get into the wind business have records disappear from that time period.
https://www.pressherald.com/2018/12/30/huge-number-of-maine-public-records-have-likely-been-destroyed/
https://www.themainewire.com/2012/03/developing-king-wind-project-cited-congressional-investigation/
http://www.windtaskforce.org/m/blogpost?id=4401701%3ABlogPost%3A78101
Baldacci..
http://www.maineenvironews.com/Home/tabid/97/mid/628/newsid628/46421/dnnprintmode/true/Default.aspx?SkinSrc=%5BG%5DSkins%2F_default%2FNo+Skin&ContainerSrc=%5BG%5DContainers%2F_default%2FNo+Container
listening to jerry brown is kind of like being in an insane asylum ward and listening to the most deranged person housed there.
He’s just cranky that he never was president, although he tried like heck.
With governors like these, who needs enemies?
Bloomberg was Mayor of NYC for 3 terms. Pretty much unraveled Guliani’s good work over time. DeBlasio is finally putting the nail in the coffin while Cuomo tap dance on it along with the rest of the state. Millions of New Yorkers state wide are leaving as soon as they can.
Re “Trump advisers”:
Princeton’s William Happer is an accomplished physicist and inventor of the “sodium guide star” method for greatly improving resolution of ground-based telescopes, and skeptic of CAGW/CACC; see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Happer . The article attacks him by resorting to “majority of expert opinion”, but of course Copernicus, Galileo, and Einstein went against the consensus of the day and were right. Happer is perhaps the most qualified of Trump’s present science advisers.
MIT’s Richard Lindzen is another critic of the high literature value for Climate Sensitivity; see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Lindzen . The article says that Lindzen has admitted “some stupid mistakes”, as if this invalidates everything else he has written and said. Real scientists, being human, make mistakes all the time at the frontiers of knowledge, but admit them (like Lindzen), learn from them, and move on with better understanding. Admitting mistakes is something the true believers of the cult of CAGW/CACC find difficult to do.
For example, for decades the “best value” for climate sensitivity has been quoted as 3 degrees +/- 1.5 degrees, although the low end value of 1.5 degrees was deemed “highly improbable”. The 3 degrees was composed of 1 degree on doubling CO2 (from spectroscopic calculations) plus 2 degrees due to water vapor positive feedback.
In the last 2 years, that 3 degrees has been quietly replaced by 1.5 degrees, thanks to diligent work by Judith Curry and others, although this should have been easily calculated from the 0.8 degree +/- 0.1 degree warming from 1850 to 2018 as CO2 increased from 285 ppmv to 410 ppmv. This implies that water vapor feedback is at most 50%, not 200%, a whopping difference which casts doubt on the rest of the calculations.
The 1.5 degree estimate based on 1 degree warming without feedback still assumes that ALL of the historic warming was due to CO2 plus feedbacks. But that 1 degree estimate is based on net absorption by CO2 in a 10 km path length of a cloudless troposphere; see the simulated spectra at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiative_forcing . The effect of doubling CO2, just barely detectable, corresponds to the difference in area between the blue and green curves.
But 62% of the Earth’s surface is covered by clouds. Clouds are composed of liquid droplets or ice crystals that act like Planck black bodies with emissivity 0.98 or higher. Therefore they absorb and then re-radiate at all relevant infrared (IR) frequencies, so doubling CO2 below the cloud tops has no net effect (any increase in CO2 net absorption simply means that much less net absorption by cloud particles).
But the cloud tops are cooler than the Earth’s surface (mean temperature = 15 Celsius = 288 K), so there is less IR black body initial emission available for net absorption by CO2 and other greenhouse gases.
The path length from cloud tops to outer space is less than that from the Earth’s surface, so there are fewer CO2 molecules that can absorb IR when there are clouds.
The extra net absorption by CO2 occurs in two sidebands centered at 618 and 721 cm^-1, as shown by the two small area differences between the blue and green curves in the MODTRAN spectra. These sidebands involve absorption by molecules in the first vibrationally excited state, not the ground state. Since populations in excited states decrease exponentially as temperature decreases, there will be fewer CO2 molecules in excited states above the cloud tops relative to those in all 10 km of a cloudless troposphere.
The spectral lines for CO2 in the vibrational ground state are essentially all saturated, so doubling CO2 does not increase net absorption by these lines. However, 100% absorption by Kirchhoff’s Law is followed by 100% re-emission, so these lines are re-emitted at higher altitudes as CO2 is doubled. The MODTRAN spectrum shows no change in net absorption/emission at frequencies centered at 667 cm^-1, but this results from truncating the computer simulations at 20 km altitude (the temperature is relatively constant from 10 to 20 km). When MODTRAN is run to 70 km altitude, the net re-emission at 667 cm^-1 actually increases, as final escape of these photons occurs at altitudes between 20 and 50 km where temperature increases with altitude due to net absorption of incoming Solar visible and UV radiation by ozone. Increased emission at high altitude means that less emission is needed from the Earth’s surface for energy balance, so there would be a smaller climate sensitivity.
All these factors mean a smaller climate sensitivity before feedback, around 0.6 degrees instead of 1 degree.
A 50% positive feedback due to water vapor increase would increase this to 0.9 degrees, well below the 1.5 degree now considered a danger. And increased cloud cover as water vapor increases would provide a negative feedback likely to cancel much or most of the 50% positive feedback. So Lindzen was probably right all along about climate sensitivity being 0.6 degrees, even if some of his arguments were wrong.
A+
Most likely analysis of a chaotic system, and fits with the data we have so far. We live on a water planet, with half our land, largely uninhabitable. People live in their cities and communities, and extrapolate that experience to form their view of the larger world. That is why they are so easily fooled.
Water is the dominant molecule in this world. And the ocean – atmosphere interaction is the dominant relationship in the weather, and in the climate. And the ocean water temperature is stabilized by evaporation, which leads to cloud formation.
CO2 is vital as a required molecule in photosynthesis. Its role as a GHG is minor, and even that small effect on the climate is overwhelmed by the role that water molecules play, in all their forms: vapor, liquid, ice.
We are along for the ride, and that is disturbing thought for many on the Left. They hate freedom for the unruly masses, and want to impose their form of order on mankind, and pretend they can do the same on the planet itself. It is a self-delusional neurosis. And if they could keep it to themselves, I would have no problem with it. Most children have the same problem, but learn to accept the limits of their control over other people, and inanimate objects. It is obvious that Bloombeam and Moonbeam, never went through the realization that they cannot impose their visions of nirvana on us. We know where that leads, and it is a place where most people lose freedom, so the overseers can soothe their elephantine egos.
Control CO2 and you control the World. Sounds like a plot from “Pinky and the Brain”… Just scarier.
Only their is no “Brain” in this plot…it is “Stinky and its Brown”. And that is a correct analysis of their ideas.
Thermalization is dominant in the lower Troposhere is it not?
CO2 captures but has its energy dissipated via thermslization.
You’re right. Infrared (IR) photons absorbed by CO2 molecules in the v=1 vibrationally first excited state produce v=2 higher excited state molecules. If they simply re-emit IR photons, there is no net absorption. However, inelastic collisions of those v=2 CO2 molecules with air (N2, O2, Ar) molecules quench those v=2 molecules to v=1 or v=0 ground state molecules. So the absorbed IR energy ends up as slightly increased translational and rotational energies of all departing molecules, including CO2. But 400 ppmv CO2 means that other air molecules outnumber CO2 by a ratio of 1,000,000:400 = 2500:1 . Since linear molecules N2, O2 and CO2 all have the same heat capacity at constant pressure of Cp = 7k/2 per molecule, where k is Boltzmann’s constant [see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_capacity ], 2500 times more heat is stored in non-emitting molecules than in CO2. This is what is involved in “thermalizing” the absorbed IR energy.
Must say that I am sceptical of any warming at all caused by CO2. Click on my name to read my final report.
If anyone here wants to prove [to me] that the net effect of more CO2 is that of warming rather than cooling, you have to come with a balance sheet showing me exactly how much energy is trapped on earth (thermalized???) versus how much energy is deflected off from earth by same amount CO2.
For proof that CO2 is (also) cooling the atmosphere by re-radiating sunshine, see here:
http://www.iop.org/EJ/article/0004-637X/644/1/551/64090.web.pdf?request-id=76e1a830-4451-4c80-aa58-4728c1d646ec
They measured the re-radiation from CO2 as it bounced back to earth from the moon. So the direction of this radition was sun-earth-moon -earth. Follow the green line in fig. 6, bottom. Note that it already starts at 1.2 um, then one peak at 1.4 um, then various peaks at 1.6 um and 3 big peaks at 2 um. It all comes back in fig. 6 top.
This paper here shows that there is absorption of CO2 at between 0.21 and 0.19 um (close to 202 nm):
http://www.nat.vu.nl/en/sec/atom/Publications/pdf/DUV-CO2.pdf
There are other papers that I can look for again that will show that there are also absorptions of CO2 at between 0.18 and 0.135 um and between 0.125 and 0.12 um.
We already know from the normal IR spectra that CO2 has very big absorption between 4 and 5 um.
So, to sum it up, we know that CO2 has absorption in the 14-15 um range causing some warming (by re-radiating earthshine) but as shown and proved above it also has a number of absorptions in the 0-5 um range causing cooling (by re-radiating sunshine). In fact this back radiation of CO2 in the UV region is currently how we identify and quantify it on other planets. This cooling happens at all levels where the sunshine hits on the carbon dioxide same as the earthshine. The way from the bottom to the top is the same as from top to the bottom. So, my question is: exactly how much cooling and how much warming is caused by the CO2? How was the experiment done to determine this and where are the test results?
they only discussed climate change?
what about that wall that Trump keeps on calling for?
I am not really into wall building. I think we should rather concentrate on building bridges between people, not walls.
http://breadonthewater.co.za/2018/11/24/looking-for-merciful-samaritans/
I am also not in favor of supplying weapons to Saudi Arabia as I think that one day they might surprise us and form alliances with Russia and China. There is strong biblical evidence that the [last] anti-Christ might be a fervent Islamic [and they do not tolerate Jesus Christ, at all]
U.S. and all other nations’ immigration laws are the bridges. Illegal immigration destroys the bridges.
I can only quote H. L. Mencken, also quoted by Dr. Jay Lehr in a wonderful exposure of AGW. “The whole point of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed and hence clamorous to be led to safety by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary”. Tell me when one of these predictions has come true.
I’m old enough to remember Time magazine predicting a coming ice age. When it didn’t happen they simply switched the narrative. Check Paul Erlick’s Population Bomb.
Michael Bloomberg slammed Donald Trump’s inaction on climate change on Sunday and said any candidate for president in 2020 – he himself might be one – must have a plan to deal with the problem.
There isn’t a problem.
And any “plan” would spell election doom.
Get your AGW climate scare skeptic badges ready and plan on wearing them at all times in public so the climate guards can clearly identify your movements and associations. All “good climate scare believers” should avoid contact with those wearing the badges.
Will they be yellow or green star badges we will have to wear.
Should be the words: “Puck off to Global Warming ” surmounting an image of a broken hockey stick in a copse of bristlecone pines mounted on a single Yamal tree in a mud flat. A subtitle would simply say: “For Mann”
(Where is Josh when you need him?)
Are you sure it shouldn’t be an arm band? or perhaps tattooed on the arm?
Environmentalists are willing to demonstrably kill tens of millions to eliminate DDT. And they want to accuse climate skeptics of mass murder. Other than that, accusing global warming of mass murder is like accusing hospitals of being a leading cause of death based on where people die.
They also fully endorse the holocaust of the unborn.
41 million babies murdered in 2018 world wide.
Feminists kill more people per year than cancer or war.
Death by Abortion is the worlds biggest single killer.
Even if Jerry’s theories about runaway warming are true, and even if all of his windmills, solar panels and electric vehicles work as well as his projections, it will take 100 years to lower global temperatures by anything more than a few hundredths of one degree.
Therefore, it’s perfectly clear that Jerry’s position is all about money and power, and has nothing to do with real science.
What a disgusting person !
On the “old continent” we have enough artifacts. Omaha Beach, Auschwitz-Birkenau, Oradour-sur-Glane, the Berlin wall, then further north, Stalingrad (St. Petersburg now) the goulags of Magadan and many more.
More than enough memorials to illustrate the consequences of dictatorships of all kind and the unavoidable subsequent struggles for freedom.
Even more so when, and I invite each and everyone to research on the topic, environmentalism was (is ?) one of the fundamental dogmas of fascism.
The term “ecology” was invented in Germany in the nineteenth Century by the militant zoologist Ernst Haeckel.
What many people do not know about Haeckel, however, is his connection to national socialism.
In an equally abject book, Hitler writes “Man must not fall into the error of thinking that he was ever meant to become lord and master of Nature.”
Further from the same source: “Today war is nothing but a struggle for the riches of nature.”
So Mr. Brown, here we have more than enough reasons to disreguard your honor each and every way.
‘Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny’. Thats a shame about Haeckel’s politics, his drawings are superb.
I was just reading about this.
Apparently, his fake drawings are still, to this day, appearing in biology texts.
Time to look at the Isles of the old continent, even if M. Strong’s Club of the Isles may be Canadian. Dr. Schellnhuber, the de-carbonizer supreme, awarded a CBE by QEII in 2004, who in 2009, at a British-German Climate Conference, asserted,
“In a cynical way, it’s a triumph for science, because at last we have stabilized something—namely the estimates for the carrying capacity of the planet, namely below 1 billion people. What a triumph.”
This character is the author of the Vaticans Papal encyclical Laudato Si.
Ps. : CBE Honorary Commander of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire (CBE).
Dr. Schellnhuber, Joseph Martin “Joschka” Fischer, Merkel, and c.o., are destined to become schoolbook stigmates of modern German shame. Just as many other sharing a common dogmatic core are now.
I’ve been to Oradur sur Glane (a martyr village). I wept.
The marching orders must have been issued 12/30/2018.
NBC News host says no air time for climate ‘deniers’
NBC has jumped the shark, fascism beginning as we watch:
“When you can’t win an argument, then sometimes it’s not worth having that argument.”
If NBC allows this to stand and doesn’t fire Chuck Todd we are on the brink.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/dec/30/chuck-todd-climate-deniers-banned-meet-press/
https://www.sponsorfeedback.com/advertisers?view=show&show_id=113
America’s Natural Gas, Audi, BP, Boeing, Chevrolet, Chevron, Dow Chemical, Exxon Mobile, Infiniti, Kosh, Lexus, Nissan, US Post Office are advertising on a network that would be happy if they disappeared. Dell Computers, Fidelity Investment, HP, IBM, Liberty Mutual, McDonald’s, Northern Trust, I don’t need and those that I support won’t either.
I wonder who died and made Chuck Todd the totalitarian.
I got five tweets to sponsors before twitter cut me off, can’t post now.
NBC has jumped the shark, fascism beginning as we watch:
“When you can’t win an argument, then sometimes it’s not worth having that argument.”
Chuck Todd has to go, we do not need a fascist pretending to understand science dictating what people should think.
Mikey Bloomberg and the rest of the sophists will tell the gullible groundlings that the climate crusade won’t cost them a penny.
The Pied Pipers and demagogues will wrap their plans to “SAVE THE PLANET” from this EXISTENTIAL DANGER inside a carbon tax that will effectively only be paid by those AWFUL NASTY RICH people and SCIENCE DENIERS because it will be redistributed.
The mainstream media will cheer and promote that message.
“the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results” or in shorthand “Jerry Brown”
Micheal Bloomberg…the man who waged war on soda pop. He lost the Battle Of NYC. Won in Chicago by spending 10 million then got routed on a repeal.
Unfortunately good ideas do not spring forth from human heads in an endless stream. Bloomberg had one. Jerry’s daddy Edmund never did.
Extreme statements are usually a sign of desperation or humor. Bloomberg running for president to promote climate change seems more like humor.
[snip -off topic -mod]
So expect die Totalzerstörung Dresdens, wo die Klimadenialisten sind. They say we must not debate, we must fight. How you fight? You destroy Nazis. Right? And Breitbart readers are Nazis. Anyone disagreeing with them is a Nazi.
How they manage to paint Zionists as Nazis, is frightening. How extreme language they use on their enemies, as if they’d actually willing to start a war.
Wow, great comments here, I don’t have much to add, but must say that reading the volume of sensible and thoughtful comments gives me hope for the future in the face of the endless propaganda seen in media. Great work people!
For any folks here who think we are all nuts to say there is no reason for alarm at warm temperatures, reasoned folks will stipulate that cold is bad, warm is good. We are at the blessed top of a warm period. Would you rather be sliding down the other side to a cold period? Not me. But some time in the likely still distant future, the cold will kill a great many. I am actually hoping the CO2 thing is correct enough to keep us warm in this quaternary ice age. However, there is plenty of research out there that does not give me hope.
https://www.clim-past.net/10/2135/2014/cp-10-2135-2014.pdf
“Nazi”, “Denier”, its all just intellectually lazy hate speech. If these ZPG supporters had any scientific evidence they would use it. They dream of a world modeled after the DPRK and envision themselves as members of that Kim family. Their first attempt, eugenics, failed, now they have geometrically expanded mass communication as a very powwerful weapon to use. They have also used political correctness as a weapon to conquer our education system and our press, with the help of the ‘good little soldiers’ in the ranks of those professions.
What these climate weasels and their ilk are up to does actually resemble something the NSDAP did very successfully on assuming power. There’s a terribly long word for it in German but the English translation would be “getting into gear” everything from the largest industrial concerns and labor unions to the bicyclists clubs and the butterfly collectors consortium had to reflect Nazi ideology. Robert Conquest would attribute this feature to all forms of Totalitarianism. Sounds like hyperbole but what else would you call SR 15 other than an overarching design for World Government. Social Justice through climate control.
Control begin the goal although this time we are saving the world people. What could go wrong.
When this CAGW meme started, I thought it was ridiculous to use CO2. But because it’s a by-product of industry, it is in fact the perfect vehicle for control. IF you can convince enough of the population that it needs to be controlled. Of course, once you’ve gotten control, who cares what they believe after that.
It will take a total breakdown of society in California before they embrace the Constitution and multiple party government. Just wait. Their view of government is what the immigrants crashing the border are trying to escape.
Political Climate (PC), yes.
John Kerry in legal spat with locals over beach/trail access
https://www.thelocal.fr/20181226/hikers-clash-with-john-kerrys-family-on-french-emerald-coast
I wonder if a few hundred wind turbines place off of his beach would help? Or he could wait for the sea to rise….
Elitist filth everywhere blocking access to the public!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/john-kerry-ticketed-failing-shovel-boston-residence-sidewalk/story%3fid=28605894
Jerry Brown likened the fight against climate change to the fight against Nazism during the second world war, saying: “We have an enemy … perhaps very much devastating in a similar way.”
The tens of millions of combatants killed, the millions of innocent civilians killed, and the deliberate attempt to exterminate the Jews are what most sentient people remember about our fight with Nazism.
Any attempt to equate that with political activism fighting against CAGW reveals a disordered mind.