In response to this ridiculous letter in the Guardian saying “we won’t share a debate platform with skeptics” Marc Morano writes:
Climate activists and scientists supporting the alleged “consensus” on man-made global warming have a long history of suppressing debate and intimidation scientists into silence. As a new round of calls go out to shut down scientific debate,
See: Global Warming Alarmists — Media Pressure to end Debate – & SILENCE DISSENT: 60 climate ‘campaigners’ sign letter demanding media keep skeptics out of the news – Say they will not appear in media with skeptics
Editor’s Note: The following is an excerpt from author Marc Morano’s new 2018 best-selling book, The Politically Incorrect Guide to Climate Change.
Losing and Ducking Debates
In 2007, a high-profile climate debate between prominent scientists ended with global warming skeptics being voted the clear winner by a tough New York City audience. The debate was sponsored by the Oxford-style debating group Intelligence Squared and featured a three-on-three debating format. Before the start of the nearly two-hour
debate, the audience polled 57.3% to 29.9% in favor of the proposition that global warming was a “crisis.”
But following the debate, the numbers had completely flipped to 46.2% to 42.2% in favor of the skeptical point of view, argued by MIT scientist Richard Lindzen, University of London professor emeritus Philip Stott, and the physician-turned novelist-and-filmmaker Michael Crichton. After the stunning victory, NASA’s Gavin Schmidt, one of the scientists on the losing side promoting belief in a climate “crisis,” excused the defeat by noting that his debate team was “pretty dull” and at “a sharp disadvantage” against the skeptical scientists. Scientific American agreed, saying the warmists “seemed
underarmed for the debate and, not surprising, it swung against them.” NASA’s Schmidt appeared so demoralized that he realized that debating skeptical scientists was not something he would ever want to do again. “So are such debates worthwhile? On balance, I’d probably answer no (regardless of the outcome),” Schmidt wrote.
In 2013, Schmidt was true to his word, refusing to even appear alongside skeptical climatologist Roy Spencer on John Stossel’s Fox TV program. Schmidt literally walked off the set when Spencer came on to talk.
…
Hollywood producer James Cameron, responsible for such mega hits as Titanic and Avatar, has also been a huge climate activist. Cameron once challenged skeptics to a public debate using the rhetoric of an Old West gunslinger: “I want to call those deniers out into the street at high noon and shoot it out with those boneheads.”
In 2010, Cameron’s representatives reached out to me to assemble a skeptical debate team to face off against the producer at a public event. We agreed to the terms; Ann McElhinney and the late Andrew Breitbart were going to be joining me on the skeptical side of the debate.
I was flying to Aspen, Colorado, for the great global warming Wild West showdown when Cameron got cold feet and canceled the debate. At the very last moment, Cameron pulled the plug on a debate he himself had initiated and organized. When my connecting flight landed in Denver, I was informed that the debate was off. The official reason given by Cameron’s spokesman was that “Morano is not at Cameron’s level to debate, and that’s why it didn’t happen.
Cameron should be debating someone who is similar to his stature in our society.” But the real reason had nothing to with “stature in society” and more to do with fear of losing a climate debate. Cameron backed out of the debate at the last minute after environmentalists “came out of the woodwork” to warn him not to engage in a debate with skeptics because it was not in his best interest.
I responded to Cameron’s last-minute debate ducking with this statement: “Cameron let his friends in the environmental community spook him out of this debate. When he was warned that he was probably going to lose and lose badly, he ran like a scared mouse.” Cameron had gone from Wild West gunslinger to chicken of the sea. But Cameron’s real failing is not his debate cowardice; it is his indifference to the needs of the developing world.
No Wonder Cameron Ducked Debates
In 2010, Cameron and actress Sigourney Weaver flew to Brazil to protest a dam that would be one of the world’s largest hydroelectric projects. Even then Brazilian President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, of the leftist Workers’ party, objected to Cameron’s attempts to keep energy out of the developing world and “argued that the dam will provide clean energy and is needed to meet current and future energy needs.”47 Cameron opposed a dam—now under construction—that will bring vital electricity to Brazilians. Cameron flew to the developing world to campaign against improving the lifestyles
of its poor citizens.
But Cameron seems to be guided by his own form of utopian philosophy. “We are going to have to live with less,” the fabulously wealthy producer told the Los Angeles Times in 2010. Cameron, whose net worth was estimated
at around $900 million in 2014,49 warned that we face “a dying world if we don’t make some fundamental changes about how we view ourselves and how we view wealth.” He warned against the “consumer society where you buy something and then throw it away when you get the next new thing, filling up huge landfills with plastic and electronics.”
Cameron also wants Americans to change their ways. “Honestly, the truth is, we have to revisit almost every part of our lives and our existence over the next few years. Energy consumption, I think, being the biggest one.
Energy and global warming are interlinked issues obviously,” the producer explained.
But revisiting “almost every part of our lives” did not seem to impact Cameron’s personal life. He owned not one but two adjacent eight-thousand square-foot mansions in Malibu—and a submarine.
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“The official reason given by Cameron’s spokesman was that “Morano is not at Cameron’s level to debate, and that’s why it didn’t happen.”
What they really were afraid of was that someone who is “not at Cameron’s level” who take him to the wood shed and beat him like a redheaded step child.
That’s why you should never challenge somebody who superficially appears physically weaker than you — they might be a Judo expert, and when they kick your ass, you will have been ass whooped by a weakling, … which is not an impressive thing for your resume’.
That happened to me in HS. I bullied the wrong nerd, who quite literally flipped me upside down and assumed a horse stance over my prone body … I walked away, humiliated. It was a massively important “object-lesson” in my young life.
Yay nerd.
Similar story told to me by a workmate years ago involving high school bully vs true high school nerd.
As usual bullies join up to make SURE they can intimidate. In this case the nerd was threatened and pushed around in the hall at school.
He brushed himself off, reached deep down into his pocket protector and retrieved one of those old pens with 4 colours of ball point inside. You know, the old kind where you select the red colour, say, by sliding down a red tab that clicks in place and the selected colour ballpoint emerges.
He looks at the bullies, especially the leader, glances back at the pen and says “Green I think”. He selects green then dives onto the bully stabbing him anywhere he could as hard as he could with the green pen.
Bully backed off to verbal threats. They moved on to some other victim after that.
Cameron doesn’t like ballpoints either I guess.
Small quibble – never challenge someone who appears weaker… BUT doesn’t seem afraid. If you seem to have a physical advantage and they’re still willing to engage, that means they know something you don’t.
There’s a universal rule – people won’t challenge you unless they’ve sized you up and have decided they can handle you… whether they’re right or wrong.
Unless of course he’s bluffing.
you have to fold or play your hand to figure that out.
Do you feel lucky? Well, do you punk?
Cameron knew who he was scheduled to debate well before the debate.
In fact his team approved of the line up.
As always with the climate alarmist team, even their excuses don’t hold up to critical examination.
“Cameron knew who he was scheduled to debate well before the debate.
In fact his team approved of the line up.
As always with the climate alarmist team, even their excuses don’t hold up to critical examination.”
Do you mean ‘As always with the climate alarmist team, even their excuses don’t hold up to superficial examination.’
The excuse was true. Morano definitely was not at Cameron’s pitifully low level of knowledge about the subject.
Better not to open your mouth and be thought a fool than to confirm the fact.
A computer once beat me at chess but it was no match at kickboxing
…hit any key to continue…
LMFAO
Most people would have a spend a lot more time in the air and a lot more money buying things to live as ‘green’ as Cameron. Like many green celebrities then never see how their own life style make it hard for others to take them seriously when lecturing others .
I guess that is what happens all around you spend their time telling you how ‘wonderful’ you are.
It really is hypocritical for Cameron to be lecturing others that they have to learn to live with less.
How can he recognize the hypocrisy when he lives in a select subculture that drank it as mother’s milk?
I challenge Cameron as Jesus Christ challenged the “Rich Young Ruler” … to SELL everything and to follow him. The text says that the “Rich Young Ruler” walked-away with his head hung low. If Cameron is going to proselytize the citizens of the world with his Warmist Religion … then let him lead by example. And nooooooo … BUYing carbon credit indulgences doesn’t count … that just solidifies his fraudulent status as a Warmist Pharisee.
No mention of the areas of land Cameron has bought here in New Zealand, and his fuel-guzzling flights here from the USA!
The only thing ‘green’ about most of them is their money.
Not unlike Tolkien’s malevolent Willow in The Lord of the Rings:
Ever have someone say, ‘I won’t dignify that with an answer’?
That’s one of those shadow-puppets – a picture created by what people try to hide.
Sometimes. Other times, it merely acknowledges the futility of answering the remark, for many different reasons. Engaging someone who can only try to shout you down may not be worth the effort.
True enough, however this isn’t one of those situations. The futility in this instance may be in trying to substantiate a faulty argument by not exposing it to criticism.
Sheri – I think in most cases that’s the intended implication of the statement… while camouflaging the real intent, which is to dodge.
While I realize the obvious implicit possibility of your post, I have never heard the phrase actually used that way.
“Ever have someone say, ‘I won’t dignify that with an answer’?”
best retort is –
“Don’t say won’t when you mean can’t.”
There was also a debate promoted by the Union of Confused pseudo-Scientists many years ago that they lost badly. I think 70% were skeptical after the debate which had the majority believing the consensus position priorly.
To my knowledge, the alarmists have never won a debate.
Kinda hard to win a debate that you don’t show up for.
It’s a pattern seen again and again, not only in regard to climate alarmism. Leftist ideas can only thrive with censorship and other forms of information control. They’re like a house of cards and don’t resist even a slight puff of common sense in a debate.
If you are not prepared to debate and defend your ideas and theories with those who may disagree with you then you cannot in all honesty call yourself a scientist.
It is that simple.
So they lie a lot. It works when you own the schools, media and government.
Controlling the message.
Institutionalized lies … are still lies. And lies are dangerous things. Far more dangerous than Co2
I always say if I cannot defend the ideas I hold, then why do I hold them.
I’d add that a scientist (or any other person with personal integrity), while perhaps felling a bit of disappointment, would welcome learning something he didn’t know before.
Trump should order US government bureaucrats Gavin and Kevin to debate Ivar Giaever and Will Happer. Or Richard Lindzen and Freeman Dyson. Or Willie Soon and Judith Curry. Or Roy Spencer and John Christie.
Or six of The Team vs six prominent skeptics of one stripe or another, although Trump can’t order academics such as Mann, Overpeck, et al to participate, rather than government employees like aliens Gavin and Kevin. He could threaten to cut them off from federal grants, however.
He probably can’t cut off the grants—that is under someone else’s powers, be it Congress, a committee, etc. One supposes he could have the skeptics show up and speak to the empty chairs where the “scientists” would be. However, given the infantile tendancy of the left and the easily terrified weak ones, they would probably just do a turnabout and do the same thing with skeptics, pretending no one showed up. It’s hard to know what to do with a screaming, tantruming two-year old when mommy and daddy (MSM) are portraying everything anyone does other than provide crayons and puppies as evil. Mostly, it seems, it’s a lose-lose-lose situation and best avoided. That way, there is nothing to push against on the side of the warmists—they just jabber on with their own rapidly failing scare tactics and further devolve.
Are you suggesting that an “automatic grant renewal” can’t become “lost” in the bureaucracy “awaiting further “information” if the bureaucrats wanted it? See the IRS!!
Trump could most certainly order US government “scientists” to show up. I don’t know if he could force them actually to debate. They might just say at each turn that they won’t deign to bandy words with enemies of science and the people. But that alone would be instructive.
Many grants are indeed under his purview, as head of the administration. For others, he might need Congress to go along. But he can also pick which scientists to serve on the bodies handing out grants.
It’s a credible threat.
My favorite girlfriend in HS was named Sheri … dang, I loved her. do you mind if I imagine you are her? Because my Sheri-amour became a raging leftist.
Tom Petty described her perfectly …
Baby, time meant nothing, anything seemed real
Yeah, you could kiss like fire and you made me feel
Like every word you said was meant to be …
Sure, feel free to imagine. The one thing I am not is a raging leftist!
Sweet! And from what I can tell, bright and well educated (contradicting the leftist meme of the typical conservative).
Did your infatuation with the fair Sheri have anything to do with the altercation with the nerd who upended you?
Ha. No … it was a row in the basketball gym. And BTW … this was a large nerd … not a little bony waif. I wasn’t picking on someone smaller than me.
Which only reinforces the lesson. Which here endeth.
Good on you for fessing up to your career as a misguided bully.
The bully in my class proved 4F and spent the rest of his life in abject shame. I OTOH was a “war hero”, ie a combat vet who somehow managed to survive. The true heroes of course were my comrades who didn’t come home and enjoy 70 more years of family and fun.
Don’t worry, I’m not a creepster, stalker.
I don’t mind funding climate research but don’t feed me BS. I’m not a mushroom. Remember this: We do have the Data Quality Act which will, at most point, have teeth. let the sun shine on research.
The debate is long over, and hands-down, both in reality and by default, skeptics/climate realists won. But that didn’t matter to the Climate Liars; they had the MSM mouthpiece, world governments, NGO’s, and probably 1,000 times the amount of money to spend, along with a climate industry chugging along, using money stolen from taxpayers and ratepayers.
The True Believers have already convinced almost all the legacy media already, so they just don’t think it’s worth the chance of publicly losing.
They don’t like having their actual intelligence being put on display for all to see. They want to control the message.
James Cameron, you are an elitist pig. Thomas Frank warned us about entitled, out of touch, little s***s like you. The coup de grace is that you and your ilk are responsible for the election of Donald Trump.
You should consider President Trump a mild rebuke. Things can get a whole lot worse. If that happens, James Cameron, it will be your fault.
Read Thomas Sowell’s “Vision of the Anointed”.
+1000
MarkW: Should have known you are a “Sowell man”. Good pick.
A few of his quotes:
“It is hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no price for being wrong.”
“Facts are not liberals’ strong suit. Rhetoric is.”
“The problem isn’t that Johnny can’t read. The problem isn’t even that Johnny can’t think. The problem is that Johnny doesn’t know what thinking is; he confuses it with feeling.”
“Immigration laws are the only laws that are discussed in terms of how to help people who break them.”
Many more quotes here.
https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/thomas_sowell
“I responded to Cameron’s last-minute debate ducking with this statement: “Cameron let his friends in the environmental community spook him out of this debate.”
You should have used my line, “He ducks like a quack.” (Which I said of Al Gore here.) Then you should have followed up with, “It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry.” (—Tom Paine) But your “chicken of the sea” phrase was pretty good.
I will do my part to make your phase part of the national lexicon. It rings with a lot of clarity.
I vaguely recall that Christopher Monckton once debated DeSmog Blog’s Graham Readfern in Australia, and sent him off the stage crying.
Does memory serve me correctly?
I dunno, but it sounds about right.
No.
Yes there was a debate between them:
Monckton on Readfearn: A journalist with a grudge is a mere propagandist
“A journalist with a grudge is a mere propagandist. Graham Readfearn, described as “a journalist”, heavily lost a public debate on the climate against me some years ago and has borne a steaming grudge ever since. Readfearn is no seeker after truth. He is an unthinking propagandist for the New Religion of ThermageddonTM.”
http://joannenova.com.au/2013/09/monckton-on-readfearn-a-journalist-with-a-grudge-is-a-mere-propagandist/
Relying on Lord Monckton for your facts? Shaky, but even he says nothing about anyone leaving the stage crying.
In fact what Lord M doesn’t tell you is that it was actually a panel discussion at the Brisbane Institute. There were four on the panel – Lord M, Ian Plimer, Graham R and Barry Brook. I see no evidence that anyone was reduced to tears. Verdict on who “won” is of course entirely partisan.
My goodness what gave YOU the idea that I was talking about crying stuff, all I did was to show there was a debate set up.
You like to fog things up…..
Read the comment to which I was replying.
Relying on Nick Stokes for facts is for ignorant fools. Steve McIntyre properly outed him years ago for his willingness to lie and libel: “Sliming by Stokes” https://climateaudit.org/2014/10/01/sliming-by-stokes/
Thanks Sunsettommy.
I knew these two had locked horns somewhere along the line, and that Monckton had devastated young Readfearn.
To wit:
“Grazza, me boy, you need to raise your game if you want to play in the big leagues with the grown-ups. Science is not done by hurling off-the-point, out-of-context insults of the sort you specialize in. It is done by meticulous observation, by meticulous measurement of what is observed, and by the meticulous application of established theory to the results, so as to inch the theory meticulously forward.”
Ouch!
“No” is not really an adequate response Nick; please tell us what really happened.
It wasn’t a debate.
It was a debacle, for the so called journalist.
As I said elsewhere; Someone who is confident that they can win won’t hesitate when given a chance to prove it.
gavin is utterly clueless
Somebody recently wrote:
“Gavin doesn’t know Schmidt!” 🙂
“I would rather have questions that can’t be answered than answers that can’t be questioned.”
Richard Feynman
That’s the response to use to Mosher’s claim that we must either come up with a better theory of global warming or accept CO2 alarmism and act on it.
Ignore the ‘truth’ and repeat a lie or a mis-truth often enough and you get – what?
You get enough people to accept your message, that want or need to have their version of what is happening in the world, reinforced.
Now, wherehave we all heard this concept before? Not just here at WUWT, but a little earlier in history.
MY truth was reinforced here, at this site, but those not wanting or willing to read the material presented here, WILL swallow the stories they consume.
The ‘Left’ know this all too well….so…how the heck do we convince them of the error of their information?
Not by argument in a debate it would seem, even when they lose.
Not by media releases – when it is allowed to occur.
Not by listening or watching the news – its ALWAYS one way information there.
NOT by electing new leaders – they largely sing from the same song book.
But, doing none of the above would cement the CAGW persons views – that there are no dissenting voices.
Seems to be a dichotomy without end.
Lucky I’m bloody minded…for I surely won’t be holding my tongue when engaged in this debate.
Cameron’s submarine must be the same color as the stripe down his back.
I was only partly right.
Rather than Beatles’ shocking yellow, Cameron’s submersible is high-vis lime green, ie greenish-yellowish.
It seems to me that we have two choices. We can move forward with modern life, try to expand our modern lifestyle to underdeveloped nations to benefit the masses, and adapt to climate change if and when it occurs. Or we can force the world back into the dark ages without fossil fuels and kill off more of humanity than climate change could ever hope to kill off. It is clear to me that when it comes to climate change, the cure is worse than the disease.
After years of end-of-the-world fear mongering, there has been no evidence that a little warming is detrimental, let alone catastrophic. If anything, the warming that has occurred since the Little Ice Age has been vastly beneficial to life on earth. The ones who say otherwise are like Cameron, DiCaprio, and Gore who don’t need to be concerned about skyrocketing fuel costs and care little about anyone but themselves. They would love to kill off most of the world’s population and turn the planet into their own private nature reserve. Their useful-idiot followers have no idea what will happen to them if the idols they worship get their way.
If you are dying of cancer, you may want to try drastic measures to find a cure. But if you are healthy, it makes no sense to ingest an unproven cure for a disease you don’t yet have and may never get. What these hypochondriacs of climate change want us to do is simply irrational and suicidal. So let’s not panic. Let us continue to take life one day at a time and deal with problems as they arise. I am confident the outcome will be far better than putting Al Gore in charge of our future.
It would be an interesting question to ask a warmist, that given the warming trend that started in the late 1600’s, at what point did the warming trend shift from being a benefit to being a bad thing? Or is it at some temperature level in the future that something which has been good becomes something bad?
And remember all the poor people who are vulnerable to global warming. They’ll need air conditioning to live a warmer climate, or many more of them will die. That’s bad. Lets make energy a lot less expensive for them. Wait, did I say less expensive? I meant more expensive. A lot more.
And what of the “snowbirds” who fly south for warmer winters and or retire to the hot desert or Gulf climate? How many degrees F. INCREASE are they subjecting themselves to? I suspect something much greater than the supposed increase due to AGW. So why aren’t these migratory humans DYING from the increase in their environmental temperatures. Oh well … nevermind … I expect there’s a computer model that would explain it all to me.
Exceedingly well said! Bravo!
I’ve observed this, myself, here in North Carolina, at all three local universities: the climate activists default strategy for “winning” the climate debate is to suppress dissent.
In 2014, when very distinguished Princeton atmospheric physicist Will Happer was scheduled to teach a Physics Colloquium at his alma mater, UNC, left-wing activists in the Physics Department appealed to the Department Chairman, in an unsuccessful effort to get the event cancelled, because Prof. Happer is outspokenly skeptical of climate alarmism.
In 2012, at the tail end of the great NC sea-level legislative kerfuffle, a freshman volunteer with the Duke University Environmental Alliance, the school’s largest student environmental club, invited representatives of NC-20 (including me), which backed the legislation, to participate in a planned “panel discussion” about the new law, scheduled for Oct. 30, 2012 at 6:30pm, along with Nicholas School faculty members, who had led the opposition to it (and who had a representative testify against the bill in Committee at the NC State Legislature, testimony that was remarkably blatant in its misrepresentation of the science). The young volunteer apparently didn’t realize that the purpose of the event was to propagandize for the Correct Viewpoint, and differing opinions were not permitted, so she wasn’t supposed to have invited us. When the faculty activists learned that we would be there, they all remembered conflicting commitments, and backed out. The environmental club then cancelled the panel discussion, because, according to the email from a club officer, “as an environmental group, we cannot let one side go unrepresented.” (A few weeks later the Nicholas School had Michael Mann come down to speak on campus, for a fat fee, and everyone there forgot their aversion to one-sided events.)
In 2016, in front of a room full of people, at an event promoting climate alarmism, NCSU professor Ruben Carbonell promised me that I could present the other side in an upcoming presentation. I don’t know whether he ever intended to keep that promise. After ignoring my emails for a month, he finally replied, saying that he had “checked out… the organization that funds you” (note: no organization actually funds me, unfortunately), and “we have decided to focus our resources on other topics and programs.”
You need a Colorado state government-type statement affirming academic freedom in NC.
Free speech is actually free. Which is why it’s hard sometimes for people who are used to paying for everything to grasp it. Anyway there’s no need to debate: just wait. Earth will have the final say.
Hokey,
Agreed.
But a lot of folk can be harmed – some fatally – in the meantime.
Preventing many Africans from gaining access to reliable [and reasonably-priced] electricity; keeping power prices reasonable in the ‘West’ in winter, will keep many of the poor alive if it removed the “Heat or Eat” dilemma.
Auto
The problem is, while we wait for the Earth to have the final say, alarmists are pushing policies that produce real harm to those who are the most vulnerable (the poor and the elderly).
Let’s see what the Pareto optimal move says: no grant money, no controlled headline spin, no advocacy payoff. I think that sums up the choice– you can only make yourself worse off from a debate-has-ended, winner takes all funding, publishing, and media exposure position.
…and the truth will never get it pants on to catch up.
These global warming alarmists often don’t have a clue about the nature of scientific inquiry. The closest parallel I can think of is the judicial system, where opposing sides present their theories , accompanied by evidence supporting those theories. Either a judge or a jury decides which
side has produced the most convincing case. Science without arguments is not science.
A better analogy would be at a technology company, such as a pharmaceutical enterprise.
The scientists can generally do whatever they want in their lab. But when it comes time to commit large amounts of resources, they go before a review board and they present a business case. Management decides whether to advance a project or kill it.
This crowd believes that they shouldn’t have to present a business case, because they’re the scientists and you’re not. In fact, society has multiple competing priorities and everything is a trade-off. Spending money to prevent global warming means less spending on health care, or roads, or defense, or schools. How much risk society is willing to accept based on the cost of abatement, the expected benefits, and the availability of various options, availability of resources, is a political question, not a scientific one.
I was a financial executive at various pharmaceutical companies, and if ever a scientist took the attitude that these scientists seem to want to take, they would get zero dollars to launch trials.
“Spending money to prevent global warming means less spending on health care, or roads, or defense, or schools.”
How about not spending the money on anything?
“The official reason given by Cameron’s spokesman was that “Morano is not at Cameron’s level to debate, and that’s why it didn’t happen.”
This is what he really meant:
“The official reason given by Cameron’s spokesman was that “Morano is ABOVE Cameron’s level to debate, and that’s why it didn’t happen.”
The behavious by Schmidt and co is evocative of the legal systems in certain thugocracies. Evidence and represenation for the ‘other side’ is quite unnecessary according to their rules. Once the accusation is made all that remains is to add the detail of how vile the accused is and then pass and quickly enforce the sentence.