Freeze, reduce or eliminate CAFÉ fuel standards

Too many small, lightweight cars cause too many deaths and injuries to justify tighter mpg rule

Guest opinion by Paul Driessen

A 2002 National Academy of Sciences study estimated that automotive mileage standards had helped cause as many as 2,600 extra fatalities in 1993 – at a relatively lenient standard of 27.5 miles per gallon. Other studies reached similar conclusions. And yet, in 2012, the Obama Administration began ratcheting the standards upward, with the goal of hitting 54.5 mpg by 2025.

Data sources: NHTSA, Summary of Fuel Economy Performance (Public Version) Dec. 15, 2014; Fed. Reg. 75 No.88, May 7 2010; Fed. Reg. 77 No.199, October 15 2012. Miles per gallon values throughout this post are the laboratory test values used for fuel economy certification purposes. Label, or “real-world,” values are approximately 20% lower on average.

Thankfully, EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt has proposed to re-examine the 54.5-mpg standard, possibly freeze it at the 2020 level of 39 mpg, and rein in other aspects of this harmful government program. His proposal drew howls of outrage from predictable factions. My article explains why Pruitt is right – and why his latest proposal for a thorough reform of agency cost-benefit analysis rules should be applied to vehicle mileage standards, especially on the vital issue of human injuries and deaths versus minimal and purely speculative climate change and extreme weather benefits.

Saying the air traffic controller work force was “too white,” the Obama Federal Aviation Administration allegedly replaced hiring standards based on science, math and ability to handle intense pressure with rules designed to increase racial diversity. It’s hard to find a more flagrant example of bureaucrats putting people’s safety and lives so low on their list of priorities. Difficult but not impossible.

Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFÉ) standards also play with people’s lives. Enacted in the 1970s amid fears of imminent oil depletion, the rules require that cars and light trucks on average across each manufacturer’s entire smorgasbord of vehicles must get better and better mileage over a period of years.

For the first few years, improving gasoline mileage was relatively easy. But as the standards tightened, car makers had to make vehicles smaller and use less steel and more aluminum and plastic to achieve the arbitrary mileage demands. That poses a serious problem that the Trump Administration wants to fix.

Bigger, heavier vehicles are safer, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety has said for decades. Smaller, lighter vehicles are less crashworthy, less safe. Drivers and passengers in cars and light trucks are many times more likely to die in a crash – and far more likely to maimed, disfigured, disabled or paralyzed – beyond what would have occurred if the CAFÉ standards did not exist or had been relaxed.

Even with side air bags and other expensive vehicle modifications, smaller, lighter vehicles have less “armor” to protect occupants, and less space between them and any car, truck, bus, tree or other obstacle they might collide with. So they are less safe and more expensive – less affordable for poor families.

As Competitive Enterprise Institute general counsel Sam Kazman noted in a recent Wall Street Journal article, a 2002 National Academy of Sciences study estimated that CAFÉ rules had contributed to as many as 2,600 extra fatalities in 1993 – at a relatively lenient standard of 27.5 miles per gallon. Studies by the Brookings Institution, Harvard School of Public Health, National Academy of Sciences and USA Today all reached similar conclusions.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) covered all this up. Grizzly facts would not be allowed to get in the way of a well-intentioned government program.

Thankfully, the mileage standards stayed around 27.5 mpg throughout the 1990s and beyond. But then, in 2012, the Obama Administration began ratcheting the standards upward, with the goal of hitting 54.5 mpg by 2025. The Environmental Protection Agency had begun helping to manage the NHTSA mileage program in 2009, and it became the driving force for doubling the mpg requirements. It became equally complicit in hiding the death and injury tolls associated with CAFÉ.

Horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing (fracking), other new technologies, and the discovery of new oil and gas deposits mean we will not run out of oil or natural gas for another century or more. So the Obama Administration asserted that mandating far tighter mileage rules would have the co-benefit of reducing tailpipe emissions of “greenhouse gases” associated with dangerous manmade climate change.

Scary headlines, data manipulation, computer models and well-orchestrated campaigns to link nearly every extreme weather event to rising atmospheric levels of (plant-fertilizing) carbon dioxide enabled the climate scare to get as far as it has. But the climate cataclysm movement is running out of gas.

People no longer accept claims that Earth’s climate was stable until the 1970s. They remember that it was a global cooling and global warming scare, before it became a climate change and extreme weather scare. They realize global temperatures have been stable for nearly 20 years, complying with Paris treaty and other climate edicts would cost trillions of dollars, and emerging economic powerhouses like China and India are not obligated or likely to reduce their use of fossil fuels or emission of greenhouse gases.

Despite $557 million in quiet funding by rich liberal foundations to wealthy alarmist groups, people are also figuring out that the Paris treaty actually has little or nothing to do with the climate or environment. “Climate change” is now used to justify replacing the capitalist economic model with a global governance system – and redistributing the world’s resources and wealth. The treaty itself says climate action must include an emphasis on “gender equality,” “empowerment of women,” “intergenerational equity” and “climate justice.” These are the “climate dangers” that supposedly justify lethal CAFÉ rules.

Thankfully, EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt recently proposed to re-examine the 54.5-mpg-by-2025 Obama EPA-NHTSA standards – and possibly freeze them at the pending 2020 level of 39 mpg. Mr. Pruitt noted that the standards had been implemented after years of lobbying by environmental pressure groups, and that assertions of climate and weather benefits do not reflect scientific or historical reality.

There has also been talk of revoking California’s unique right to set tougher standards than are applicable to the rest of the USA, and preventing the state from applying its more stringent mileage rules beyond its borders. EPA and Transportation Department officials say they have held “productive” discussions with California air quality regulators and others – but it’s hard to say where the talks might be headed.

The proposals drew predictable howls of outrage from environmentalists and California legislators and regulators, who are sticking to their claims that tougher mpg rules will somehow avoid climate chaos. An automobile manufacturers lobbying group insists that mileage standards should increase every year.

Auto makers would understandably prefer to have a single national mileage standard, rather than two: ultra tough rules for California and a less stringent mpg requirement for the rest of America. But the injury and death tolls dictate that any standard must be held well below 54.5 mpg or even 39 or 30 mpg.

Pruitt did not mention the injury and death tolls that result from these mileage standards. He should have, and his new plan to implement comprehensive cost-benefit reforms would compel his regulators to fairly, honestly and accurately assess the social and environmental costs and benefits of proposed mileage rules.

That would stand in stark contrast to the way EPA handled its arbitrary social cost of carbon analyses. The Obama agency looked only at alleged and exaggerated worldwide costs of United States carbon dioxide emissions – while totally ignoring the immense and obvious benefits of using fossil fuels. To compound the insanity, EPA claimed it could make reliable predictions three centuries into the future!

To support its various pollution control measures, the Obama EPA raised its “value of a statistical life” presumably saved by a proposed regulation from $7.9 million in 2011 to $9.7 million in 2013. The VSL estimates how much money people are willing to spend to reduce a risk enough to save one life. There is no evidence that EPA employed VSL to estimate the human cost of doubling the 1993 27.5 mpg standard.

The agency should certainly do so now. Using a $10-million VSL, $2 million per serious injury or paralysis – and 4,000 deaths and 50,000 serious injuries per year from a 54.5 mpg standard – would mean the average fuel efficiency demanded by California and radical greens would cost the United States $50 billion a year. In return, we would get small, purely speculative climate and weather benefits from burning less gasoline in the USA, assuming that tailpipe emissions play a major role in climate change.

(Applying similar cost-benefit analyses to electric cars would raise serious questions about the generous state and federal tax rebates, free access to toll and HOV lanes, free charging stations and other subsidies for pricey vehicles that only wealthy families can afford.)

Volkswagen’s deceit about diesel emissions defrauded consumers but didn’t kill anyone. And yet VW has generated far more regulatory, judicial, legislative and media outrage than lethal mileage standards.

As Ralph Nader might say, CAFÉ standards make cars unsafe at any speed – not by faulty car design, but by government decree. It’s time to reduce, eliminate or at least freeze these killer standards (and do the same thing with the ethanol mandates and gravy train).


Paul Driessen is senior policy analyst for the Committee For A Constructive Tomorrow (www.CFACT,org) and author of articles and books on energy, climate change, carbon dioxide and economic development.

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Tom Halla
June 10, 2018 7:45 am

There is a faction that really, really wants the peons in mass transit, or walking, or bicycling, or carrying their massa’s sedan chairs. Opposition to mass ownership of motor transport is a common theme, with greens and “urban planners” wanting to keep the lower classes in their place.
So Obama et al imposing standards for CAFE that are expensive and/or impossible to meet is a feature, not a bug.

Ian Macdonald
Reply to  Tom Halla
June 10, 2018 10:25 am

Yeah, and the main consequence here is the rise of the lawless cyclist, causing hazards on the sidewalk and on the road. The kind of cyclists who protest so loudly at their own vulnerability to ‘evl car drivers’ but at the same time seem to be determined to play Russian roulette with every red light, and to invade pedestrian space wherever and whenever they see fit.

Doug Huffman
Reply to  Ian Macdonald
June 10, 2018 3:21 pm

Do you complain so of the scofflaw motorists and their death toll. Bicyclists have killed no one, they hazard only themselves and morons reacting inappropriately.

Ian W
Reply to  Doug Huffman
June 10, 2018 3:39 pm

2 Pedestrians a week are killed by cyclists in UK and the statistics show a doubling since last year. Perhaps you should check your claim against reality.

dwgh
Reply to  Ian W
June 10, 2018 4:14 pm

The figures I have seen for the UK:-

2 cyclists a week (2016) killed in road accidents https://www.rospa.com/road-safety/advice/pedal-cyclists/facts-figures/

3 pedestrian deaths a year involving cyclists (2007-2016) https://www.cyclinguk.org/campaigning/views-and-briefings/pedestrians

edited for clarity

Reply to  Ian W
June 10, 2018 5:41 pm

A medical man was killed in Melbourne a few years ago, knocked over by a cyclist.
I was nearly knocked over by a cyclist flying the wrong way down a one-way street in Cirencester in England as I went to cross the road, having checked the road was clear in the expected direction of traffic. The traffic rules apply to cyclists but a fair proportion of them like to think they don’t.
I and my grandchildren and dog have been nearly taken out by maniacally speeding cyclists on multi-use minor roads, those cyclists were travelling far faster than any cars I’ve seen on them. All we had for our shouts of warning was a lot of very rude abuse.

Charles Higley
Reply to  Doug Huffman
June 10, 2018 5:44 pm

In addition, motorists avoiding collisions with bicyclists cause collisions with other vehicles. It’s the bicyclist that caused any related deaths.

MarkW
Reply to  Doug Huffman
June 10, 2018 6:47 pm

Scofflaw motorists are pursued by the police and usually arrested.
Do you have anything relevant to add?

Paul Penrose
Reply to  MarkW
June 11, 2018 3:16 pm

And motorists are required to carry liability insurance. AFAIK, bicyclists in the US are not (although this may vary by state and city). So who is being more responsible?

John M. Ware
Reply to  Ian Macdonald
June 10, 2018 4:32 pm

I concede that few cyclists have actually killed anyone by hitting people with bicycles. That is not the issue. The issue is that cyclists and their brethren (mostly on environmental grounds) have legislated and implemented countless bike lanes in what were built as car roads, thus decreasing car lanes in both number and width and causing worse traffic. In Richmond (VA) alone, dozens or more of bike lanes have reduced 4-lane roads (2 each way) to 3 lanes or even two, just for the once-a-week cyclist who might want to ride in lonely splendor in a lane built for cars. I don’t know how many car crashes are caused, or how many traffic snarls are made worse, by this legislation; but my guess is (assuming the facts are not suppressed) that the toll will mount. Again, the bikists are not completely to blame; they merely “benefit” from someone else’s environmental agenda.

MarkG
Reply to  John M. Ware
June 10, 2018 9:57 pm

“I concede that few cyclists have actually killed anyone by hitting people with bicycles.”

Before I left the UK in the early 2000s, an acquaintance looked at the statistics and showed the pedestrian death rate per passenger-mile was roughly the same for cars and bikes. I suspect it’s got worse since.

Reply to  Tom Halla
June 10, 2018 11:19 am

There is a faction to whom the end of institutionalized slavery is seen as the greatest travesty ever to befall humankind. A correction must be forced upon the rest of us, like it or not.

gnomish
Reply to  ThomasJK
June 10, 2018 4:19 pm

how curious that it seems so perfectly unobjectionable to have a government coercing behaviors. laws that are purely to punish behavior and taxes purely to punish behavior are in no way consistent with protection and defense of rights. wuwt? did everybody lose track?

i have a 3 point plan to restore common sense to society:
1 – remove all speed limits
2 – abolish drinking age
3 – issue a fully loaded 9mm with 15 shot clip to every person over the age of 6

2 weeks, i tell you, and we will have nothing but reasonable folks walking the streets minding their business and respecting your rights.

if stupid is protected, it will survive and multiply.

sycomputing
Reply to  gnomish
June 10, 2018 5:50 pm

While God’s sorting out the plethora of Stupid, how will you prevent them from 1) running over; 2) falling into; 3) shooting; me and mine in the meantime?

🙂

gnomish
Reply to  sycomputing
June 10, 2018 9:39 pm

Why don’t you have your owner do it? I’m not your slave.

Felix
Reply to  gnomish
June 10, 2018 6:03 pm

Magazine, please. Not clip. You can fill your magazine from a clip of ammo, but a mag isn’t a clip.

While your modest proposal might have some merit, US law defines the minimum militia age as 17. While citizens younger than that are entitled to own firearms, IMO it’s better if they don’t have militia, ie military, weapons. Semiauto pistols are IMO militia weapons.

The 1939 Miller case was decided based on what counts as a militia weapon (although the Justices’ ignorance of war led them wrongly to rule that sawed off shotguns aren’t militia weapons, which they manifestly are, but the principle is valid).

Perhaps offtopic, but topical since we’ve just observed the centennial of the Battle of Belleau Wood. Not the plethora of Marines armed with shotguns. Also M1911 semiauto .45 cal handguns.

gnomish
Reply to  Felix
June 10, 2018 9:50 pm

felix, precious-
you have no way of knowing it, but i have a permanent lifetime exemption from following your rules.
if you are an enthusiast, look my vid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBnj4FVhBuU
alpha male be making them, not punksplaining vocabulary.

Felix
Reply to  gnomish
June 10, 2018 10:04 pm

Did you 3D print the upper as well, to include the breech block, bolt, barrel and springs?

My US Army comrades in Vietnam, the Gulf, Iraq and Afghanistan mock pretentious noobs like you who don’t know the difference between a clip and a magazine.

It is possible to 3D print a complete firearm, such as an M1911 pistol, but it requires an industrial machine, worth on the order of $100K.

The plastic parts can be made on a $2000 home 3D printer.

If you don’t like the US code definition of militia, in place since 1792, please go ahead and organize to change the law so that six year-olds are constitutionally required to own semiautomatic weapons.

Current US law says 17. With which I’m OK. I registered for the draft at age 18 and fought in Vietnam at age 19. The first semiauto rifle I ever fired was in the Army. Before that, I was all lever and bolt action.

As a now superannuated member of the unorganized militia. I’m armed with semi- and full-auto weapons, plus explosive devices. But when I was 16, as noted, all I had were single shot, lever and bolt action fire arms. And revolvers.

gnomish
Reply to  Felix
June 10, 2018 11:38 pm

oh, i know the difference- it’s simply my delight to trigger pretentious fossils.
and now you imagine you’ll tell me something about 3d printing.

can you just mock yourself and save me the time and effort? there’s a good man.

MarkW
Reply to  gnomish
June 10, 2018 6:50 pm

It really is fascinating how some people defend every new regulation with the whine that those who oppose them want anarchy.
In their petite minds, there are only two options, full government control of everything, or no government at all.

jimB
Reply to  gnomish
June 12, 2018 7:29 am

Gn: I presume you were trying to make a point. What is it?

Edwin
Reply to  Tom Halla
June 10, 2018 4:25 pm

I was in Shanghai in the mid-1980s. The primary modes of transportation were walking, bikes, small buses and party official limousines. Leaving the city was by coal fired locomotives. Only the center two lanes of major roads could be used for motorized vehicles. Now if you see video’s of Shanghai the obvious mode of transportation in the city are cars and it is high speed trains leaving. Gee, I wonder how they went from 1930s technology to 21st Century in such a short period of time.

Steve Reddish
Reply to  Edwin
June 10, 2018 4:56 pm

The Chinese did not have to re-invent cars and modern trains, they had to find a way to afford them. They did this by moving away from a centralized economy toward a free market economy.

SR

Edwin
Reply to  Steve Reddish
June 12, 2018 7:05 am

Talking with a Chinese friend, who has been in the USA for a while now, I said something similar about China moving towards a free market economy. My friend almost fell out of her chair laughing. She said it is nothing of the sort. At best it can be described as restricted crony capitalism. Even today no one does anything without strict government oversight.

MarkG
Reply to  Tom Halla
June 10, 2018 9:54 pm

“There is a faction that really, really wants the peons in mass transit, or walking, or bicycling, or carrying their massa’s sedan chairs.”

Yes, they’re called Communists.

Hint: centralization of transport in the hands of the state is part of the Communist Manifesto.

Jim Masterson
Reply to  MarkG
June 10, 2018 11:51 pm

>>
Hint: centralization of transport in the hands of the state is part of the Communist Manifesto.
<<

Along with graduated income taxes and a centralized bank–we have both.

Jim

joe
Reply to  Tom Halla
June 16, 2018 9:59 pm

Our massas could’ve used all the concern about the environment to achieve huge conservation of vehicle fuel, increased safety, and greatly reduced vehicle cost by reducing highway speed limits – but instead squandered all their political capital on crony enrichment schemes. The crony enrichment schemes are easier politically because the costs are hidden, whereas speed limit reduction would annoy everyone directly – and make the greenies and cronies bear at least some of the inconvenience, while ending their profiteering.

Power needed to overcome wind resistance increases with the cube of velocity. 45 mph cubed = 91k, 70 cubed = 343k. At 45 mph the horsepower required is pretty small – a good cyclist with a recumbent bike could do that, add a hub motor and most of us could keep up. Limiting speed would make high speed, heavy highway cars even more ridiculous, so many people would end up driving things with the power/weight ratio more like an old VW, citroen 2cv or model T – but with modern engine controls. This would save a lot of fuel around town.

Demanding big cars for safety is a zero sum game, reduced speed limit capabilities (programmed into each car) would directly decrease the risk of collision and the consequences.

Cars are absurd and wasteful. If they were limited in power, perhaps they’d be less of a fetish object, and more like a tool.

Dr. Bob
June 10, 2018 7:48 am

Having been in the alternative fuels and vehicle emissions area for over 20 years, I can say with surety that all vehicles meet the same tailpipe emissions standards regardless of fuel economy standards so there will be no impact on atmospheric pollutants regardless of the FE standard set. We are now producing nearly or slightly over 15 million bbl/day of crude oil and natural gas condensates (raw gasoline, essentially) daily while we consume just around 17 MM bbl/day so we are essentially energy secure as we get over 3.5 MM bbl/day from Canada alone.
New cars now are cleaner than ambient air in places like LA, so there is no need to reduce tailpipe emissions any further and changing FE standards does not change regulated emissions anyway.
I fully agree that FE standards have saved energy, but at the cost of vehicle safety and durability. All components in the vehicle have been lightened to reduce weight including brake components which leads to faster wear and warped rotors. Suspension systems wear out sooner and need expensive work and sheet metal is not thinner making minor hits more expensive to repair.
I say let the consumer chose what vehicle attributes that person wants. And the overwhelming choice right not is a full size truck over a tiny car.

Greg
Reply to  Dr. Bob
June 10, 2018 9:19 am

metal is not thinner?

From the context, I think you meant “is a lot thinner. ”

But this is not about consumer choice it is about doing what we are told by our moralistic, moral superiors. After all they ARE trying to save the planet. How egotistical can you be to want personal safety?

Paul Johnson
Reply to  Greg
June 10, 2018 11:20 am

Occam’s Razor would favor a single keystroke or auto-correct error – “now thinner”, just as “the overwhelming choice right not is a full size truck” that follows would also be “right now”.

Bryan A
Reply to  Paul Johnson
June 10, 2018 12:03 pm

I used to work as a truck driver delivering auto body parts. Back in the 80’s, it was difficult to get body panels and support parts that weren’t bent or dented in some fashion straight out of the factory. I used to jibe that they were being made from aluminum foil instead of steel

MarkW
Reply to  Dr. Bob
June 10, 2018 12:43 pm

That more fuel efficient vehicles reduce energy usage is not a proven.
When driving gets cheaper, people tend to drive more. This offsets most if not all of the savings.

Johan
Reply to  MarkW
June 10, 2018 3:29 pm

We can fix that dilemma by simultaneously raising gasoline taxes. Problem solved!

gnomish
Reply to  MarkW
June 10, 2018 4:05 pm

of course it does. and mobility is one of the 4 laws of freedom.
but on this bigger.is.better ‘escalation of mass’ survival strategy with automobiles- it didn’t actually work out in the long run for the dinosaurs.
the only reason for massive autos is protection from what? massive autos.
personally, i’d suggest agility and bigger airbags to lower the weight of vehicles back to the hundreds instead of thousands of pounds.
my mobility scooter- i can pick it up with one hand- but it will smoke all the old fux in walmart in their 3000$ jazzies that weigh (literally) 1/4 ton.

Felix
Reply to  gnomish
June 10, 2018 4:13 pm

The large dinosaurs didn’t die out because they got too big.

Being huge was an advantage for sauropods, although they needed to hatch a lot of little babies to make sure a few would survive to become enormous, hence essentially immune to predation until old, sick or wounded.

Some think that theropod allosaurs “flesh grazed” on sauropods, making lightening attacks to rip off chunks of meat, which the giant plant-eaters then regrew.

sycomputing
Reply to  Felix
June 10, 2018 5:23 pm

“Some think that theropod allosaurs “flesh grazed” on sauropods, making lightening attacks to rip off chunks of meat, which the giant plant-eaters then regrew.”

???????

So this was somehow prior to the possibility of bleeding to death, or the possibility of biological infections from unhealed wounds, or likely feeding frenzies (evidence crocodiles and alligators today) by other reptiles and/or other attacking theropod allosaurs and what-not or…????

gnomish
Reply to  sycomputing
June 11, 2018 8:20 pm

flesh grazing is a hypothesis supported by examination of the structure of the skull and jaws and the dentition.
e.g., the komodo has weak jaws – the structural design is optimized for pulling away, i.e., ripping out a hunk.
consider the piranha. a mouthful of scalpels is not for chewing.
consider also autotomy of the tail common to many lizards.
and if the prey bleeds out- fine- then it’s carrion for carryout.

sycomputing
Reply to  gnomish
June 12, 2018 5:25 am

“– the structural design is optimized for pulling away, i.e., ripping out a hunk.”

But it doesn’t logically follow from this that the animal being attacked is left alive to heal. It could just mean that it gets eaten in chunks after it’s dead.

Moreover, if Wiki is to be believed, Komodos may possess venom glands or other oral secretions designed to prevent the prey from healing from their bite(s) at all.

“consider the piranha. a mouthful of scalpels is not for chewing.”

Right, it’s for the complete destruction of the flesh it’s attacking, hence, neither is it for leaving prey alive for later “grazing”. As far as I know, they don’t leave much to be healed?

“consider also autotomy of the tail common to many lizards.
and if the prey bleeds out- fine- then it’s carrion for carryout.”

Thanks, that’s my point. It seems much more rational to conclude the animal will bleed out than remain alive when another, 1/4 of it’s size begins to feed upon it to survive. I’d have to believe that the attacking animal isn’t very hungry, i.e., it’s only going to take a few chunks out of the prey then move on, when in the first place, the kill is difficult. I’d have to believe that the predators would take turns rather than attack all at once, or not at all. Why would they make “lightening” attacks, back and forth, when they could eat easier by just swarming the prey, killing it where it stood and eating in “peace”? Do we see the reverse anywhere in nature?

gnomish
Reply to  sycomputing
June 12, 2018 8:03 am

yes
it’s called ‘progressive taxation’

Felix
Reply to  sycomputing
June 11, 2018 8:54 pm

The hypothesis doesn’t rule out death for the attacked giant herbivores. That must have happened, which is all the better for predators which can then become scavengers, and, as top predators, able to keep the carcass to themselves.

But many enormous sauropods could recover from such attacks just as humans can from wounds which destroy our flesh.

sycomputing
Reply to  Felix
June 12, 2018 5:44 am

“But many enormous sauropods could recover from such attacks just as humans can from wounds which destroy our flesh.”

I don’t doubt it, but why wouldn’t this be the exception rather than the rule, i.e., why would the predators leave the animal alone once they began their attack, other than being interrupted for some reason or other? Are there similar examples of reptilian predator habits like this in nature today?

This hypothesis seems to suggest their actions are purposeful, unless I misunderstood you:

“Some think that theropod allosaurs “flesh grazed” on sauropods, making lightening attacks to rip off chunks of meat, which the giant plant-eaters then regrew.”

MarkW
Reply to  gnomish
June 10, 2018 6:53 pm

Large cars are also safer in collisions with fixed objects, which are the majority of accidents.

gnomish
Reply to  MarkW
June 11, 2018 4:39 am

one time i was driving down i35 in the middle of winter in my vw rabbit.
suddenly, ahead of me, i saw cars sliding on some iced pavement.
one after another then went off into the ditch on left side and right- at least a dozen; maybe 20 cars. big cars.
they had so much mass they were uncontrollable.
the mass made these accidents unstoppable.
i flew on by at something over the speed limit and smiled a secret smile.

Paul Penrose
Reply to  gnomish
June 11, 2018 3:30 pm

Tires, equipment (anti-lock brakes), and driver skill likely had much more to do with your result than the weight of the vehicle. Sometimes when plowing though snow drifts, a heavier vehicle with more ground clearance is an advantage, but not always.

Paul Penrose
Reply to  gnomish
June 11, 2018 3:28 pm

There are other vehicles on the road other than cars. Work trucks that must tow heavy loads will always be large, regardless of fads or regulations. The same is true with delivery vans, semis, etc. All things considered, you are safer with a larger, heavier vehicle. That said, safety is not the only factor in a vehicle choice, but people should be free to decide for themselves.

Just Jenn
June 10, 2018 7:53 am

Interesting article and an aspect I have given much thought to. I was taught (bear with me) that increased fuel efficiency regulations would “rethink” the efficiency of the internal combustion engine. What it did do was not what it was intended to do–which was reduce the weight of cars to the increased safety risk of the populace and replace that protective weight with passive restraint systems….thereby making the cars “safer” and more fuel efficient because they weigh less.

When I was shopping for a new car with two young children, I looked for something heavy. Not energy efficient as my primary goal. I kept being steered toward a mini-van–but after seeing those things literally sheered off in roadside accidents, I kept my ground. And I’m glad I did. My car isn’t the most fuel efficient, but dang it, it’s heavy for it’s size….a plus here in snow and ice, but it does cost some money to run. And I’m not giving that up anytime soon either. I feel safe on the road, that’s worth a few more bucks at the pump each week. It is very fuel efficient for it’s size and class–so there is that, but honestly? It’s heavy…which is why I bought it.

I’m unsure so am just putting this out there. Does anyone know if the advances in internal combustion engines have actually increased? I once learned that they ran at about 20% efficiency.

TonyL
Reply to  Just Jenn
June 10, 2018 8:14 am

“Does anyone know if the advances in internal combustion engines have actually increased? I once learned that they ran at about 20% efficiency.”

The big Detroit Iron from the early 1970s were actually pretty pathetic and 20% sounds about right. Even the big V-8s of the “muscle car” era were laughable by today’s standards. One key measure *nobody* talked about was the hp per cubic inch displacement ratio. It was really low for the Detroit Iron engines.
For today’s engines, the big pluses are fuel injection and electronic ignition, both computer controlled.
The big minus is that in general, compression ratios are about as low as you can go and still have an engine that runs reliably. This means you take a hit on thermodynamic efficiency.
So all in all, it is a bit of a mixed bag. I think the all-around figure most often given for the auto fleet as a whole is ~25%. Up from 20% is fair enough, I suppose.

Reply to  TonyL
June 10, 2018 9:01 am

Yep. Turbodiesels are pushing the low 40’s percentage wise and that is maintained over a wider range of loads and power outputs

Downside is increased NOx emissions.

Robert W. Turner
Reply to  Leo Smith
June 10, 2018 3:35 pm

NOx standards need reverted back as well as they are another half-witted policy pushed through by Obama’s EPA. The limiting factor on ground ozone is now VOCs and has been since NOx standards set in the 90s.

Therefore there is no need to make the standards more stringent, as they decrease fuel efficiency and require urea injection — but I bet they didn’t even study if further regulations could possibly do more harm than good. Europe’s ground ozone level has been decreasing since the late 90s, and in that time diesel passenger vehicles have gone from 50% of the market.

Reply to  TonyL
June 10, 2018 9:48 am

Compression ratios are low because the octane rating of the fuel is low. The only way to change that would be for the government to mandate a higher rating! I was in a meeting between fuel suppliers, automakers and the DoE, the automakers said that in order to make the higher efficiency engines they would need a guarantee of higher octane fuel and the fuel suppliers said they would do that if the government mandated it.

Reply to  Phil.
June 10, 2018 10:01 am

Compression ratios are low to reduce NOx

Reply to  Cube
June 10, 2018 11:06 am

No, compression ratio’s are low because the higher octane you want in your fuel, the higher the price to make the fuel…

Reply to  Cube
June 10, 2018 2:54 pm

No it’s due to low octane gas (more revenue per barrel of crude). NOx dealt with by catalyst.

J Mac
Reply to  TonyL
June 10, 2018 11:05 am

TonyL.
Compression ratios for modern naturally aspirated gasoline powered internal combustion engines are actually quite high! Consider the ubiquitous Gen V 4.3l V6 made by General Motors since 2014. It has a compression ratio of 11.0/1 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_90%C2%B0_V6_engine#Generation_V ). The 2014 and up GM Gen V V8s are similar ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LS_based_GM_small-block_engine#Generation_V_(2013%E2%80%93present) ).

Ford is no different, for modern internal combustion engines run on ‘pump gas’, with compression ratios right around 11.0/1. Here’s a graph that illustrate efficiency improvements over the last 8 years: https://www.forconstructionpros.com/trucks/trucks-accessories/pickup-trucks-vans/press-release/20865367/ford-motor-company-new-33l-v6-engine-powers-2018-ford-f150-pickup#&gid=1&pid=3

TonyL
Reply to  J Mac
June 10, 2018 2:34 pm

Yes, both truck engines.
My impression is that passenger car engines are still stuck in the mud due to more stringent regulations. I saw some engine data from ~mid 2000s car models and they were down at ~8.8/1. Regulations have not changed, so I took it that CRs did not either. (The toyotas and Hondas from then are still on the road)
In the bizarre world of EPA regulations, the smallest fuel sipping engines in the smallest economy cars are the most heavily regulated.

J Mac
Reply to  TonyL
June 10, 2018 9:47 pm

The higher compression ratios are typical for naturally aspirated gas powered IC car engines as well, with some above 11/1 . The only modern gas IC engines that I know of with lower compression ratios are turbo charged and these typically have compression rations of 9.5/1 – 10/1 that become considerably higher under ‘boost’ pressures.
The technology has moved forward a great deal in the last 5 – 10 years…

Look for your self.
Here’s a GM resource: http://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gm-engines/

Ian W
Reply to  J Mac
June 10, 2018 5:05 pm

Vauxhall insignia 2.0L ( equivalent to Chevrolet
Malibu) compression ratio is 16:1. Running on 97 octane unleaded ethanol free EU grade fuel.

Dr. Strangelove
Reply to  TonyL
June 11, 2018 5:18 am

2017 Ford Fiesta: 2.26 hp/cu.in.
1969 Dodge Charger: 1.00 hp/cu.in.
To me, Fiesta is more laughable

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Dr. Strangelove
Reply to  TonyL
June 11, 2018 11:00 pm

Best in power per displacement
Ford Escort RS
Cosworth YBT engine
1993 cc (122 cu.in.)
1,000 hp
8.22 hp/cu.in.

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Roger Knights
Reply to  Just Jenn
June 10, 2018 8:44 am

“Does anyone know if the advances in internal combustion engines have actually increased?”

Diesels of the last ten years or so are considerably more efficient and last longer than earlier gas engines for autos. Once Bosch’s modifications are adopted diesel’s won’t emit polluting NOx and particulates. In a year, gas engines that are 30% more efficient will be in production from GM & Mazda (google SkyActiv-X).

Greg
Reply to  Roger Knights
June 10, 2018 9:28 am

In Europe most manufacturers now have to add a special additive “Adblue” to reduce NOX emissions. Fiat / Iveco “multijet” injection seems to have an edge in that they manage to comply without the additive. AFAICR the feul is injected in upto 5 squirts during compression, instead of all in one hit. This requires fancy timing patterns and much greater complexity and injection pressures but seems well developed and reliable.

paqyfelyc
Reply to  Greg
June 10, 2018 12:37 pm

“Adblue” is fancy word for urea, and is used not in the engine, but in the catalytic converter used to get rid of NOx. This add to cost, complexity etc.

Greg
Reply to  Roger Knights
June 10, 2018 9:29 am

Roger, what’s the Bosch thing about ?

Roger Knights
Reply to  Greg
June 10, 2018 12:23 pm

Here’s something I’ve posted on this site before, but probably not all have seen it:

At http://bit.ly/2I1MRC1 26 April 2018 (short version):

From the Bosch paper presented at the Vienna Motor Symposium this year (in April).

Bosch says it has solved diesel NOx problem; as low as 13 mg NOx/km even under RDE; refining existing technologies

Bosch says that its engineers have refined existing diesel technologies to reduce emissions of nitrogen oxides (NOx) so significantly that they already comply with future limits. Even in RDE (real driving emissions) testing, emissions from vehicles equipped with the newly premiered Bosch diesel technology are not only significantly below current limits but also those scheduled to come into force from 2020 (Euro 6d).

Because the solution leverages existing technology, there is no need for additional components, which would drive up costs.
…………..
A dynamic driving style demands an equally dynamic recirculation of exhaust gases. This can be achieved with the use of a RDE-optimized turbocharger that reacts more quickly than conventional turbochargers. … This means drivers can drive off at speed without a spike in emissions.

To ensure optimum NOx conversion, the exhaust gases must be hotter than 200 degrees Celsius. In urban driving, vehicles frequently fail to reach this temperature. Bosch has therefore opted for a sophisticated thermal management system for the diesel engine.

At a press event in Stuttgart Bosch had dozens of journalists, from both Germany and abroad, drive test vehicles equipped with mobile measuring equipment in heavy city traffic, under especially challenging conditions.

AI can further boost performance.

This will mark another step toward a major landmark: the development of a combustion engine that—with the exception of CO2—has virtually no impact on the ambient air.

Denner also called for a renewed focus on CO2 emissions. Denner said that consumption tests should no longer be conducted in the lab but rather under real driving conditions.

Moreover, he added, any assessment of CO2 emissions should extend significantly further than the fuel tank or the battery—a full well-to-wheels lifecycle approach.

Reply to  Just Jenn
June 10, 2018 9:49 am

Just Jennifer – “increased fuel efficiency regulations would “rethink” the efficiency of the internal combustion engine” – the thermal efficiency of engines may not have increased but the electronic engine management systems in use today are a great boon to fuel economy and engine longevity. I can from personal experience directly compare two cars designed to the same parameters: the 1965 Lotus Elan and the 2006 Lotus Elise. Both two seat small displacement high performance sports cars- essentially designed to solve the same problem. The Elan weighs 1600 pounds, develops 105 horsepower, and gets 28 MPG on the highway. If you crash it you’re not likely to survive. The Elise weighs 2000 pounds, gets 190 horsepower, and gets 43 mpg on the highway. The crash structures incorporated into the structure of the car make high speed crashes and roll overs eminently survivable.

The Elan runs two Webber carbeurators and washes the cylinder walls with gasoline. Rebuild intervals are 60 K miles. The electronic file injection on the Elise not only makes the car more fuel efficient, I also don’t expect to rebuild this engine until well over 100 K miles even though it revs 2000 rpm higher than the Elan. I hated CAFE when it was introduced- it killed the British sports car as we knew it- but the effects have been positive.

As far as 2600 more deaths per year we might want to look beyond simplistic explanations.

June 10, 2018 8:03 am

The CAFE regulations also fail to work, primarily since bureaucrats think they know better than consumers, who actually pay for the cars. And this is not only logic, there is research supporting the failure of CAFE regulations to achieve the intended results, ie. lowering emissions from autos. In a nutshell:

“When governments set efficiency regulations such as the US Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards for vehicles, they are often what is called “attribute-based”, meaning that the rules take other characteristics into consideration when determining compliance. The Cafe standards, for example, vary according to the “footprint” of the vehicle: the area enclosed by its wheels. In Japan, fuel economy standards are weight-based. Like all regulations, fuel economy standards create incentives to game the system, and where attributes are important, that can mean finding ways to exploit the variations in requirements. There have long been suspicions that the footprint-based Cafe standards would encourage manufacturers to make larger cars for the US market, but a paper this week from Koichiro Ito of the University of Chicago and James Sallee of the University of California Berkeley provided the strongest evidence yet that those fears are likely to be justified.”

More detailed discussion and links at https://rclutz.wordpress.com/2018/05/20/regulatory-backfire/
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TonyL
Reply to  Ron Clutz
June 10, 2018 8:26 am

Good points. In the Obama administration, “attribute-based” was getting explicitly defined to include “diversity”. This was scheduled to expand into Affirmative Action quotas, “inclusion” and the whole constellation of “Social Justice” causes.
So CAFE was to be mutated into another tool to advance the radical ideology of that administration. The whole automotive industry was going to get beaten with that club.
Raising the CAFE standards to levels which could not possibly be met otherwise was key to getting the power to wield that club.

June 10, 2018 8:30 am

If decreasing fuel usage is the goal, there are simpler answers. Reducing and enforcing speed limits, taxing gasoline a little higher, more emphasis on public transportation and walking friendly neighborhoods, driver training in high mileage techniques And the list goes on.
Conservation of resources can make sense but it must be demonstrated that there is a need.
Climate change is an exceedingly poor demonstration of need. There is little evidence that fossil fuel burning actually has a significant effect on our climate. There is virtually no evidence that the climate is actually warming to a significant degree. There is no evidence that warming has had or will have detrimental effects.
On the other hand, more fuel-efficient vehicles are less costly to own which puts ownership within the reach of more people. A possible win-win situation.

TonyL
Reply to  rockyredneck
June 10, 2018 8:50 am

“If decreasing fuel usage is the goal, there are simpler answers”
All true enough. Maybe there are well and truly good reasons to have that as a goal.
But is that any justification for government involvement?
If there really is a compelling reason to reduce fuel usage, perhaps the free market and the choices people make will sort it out.
If the choices people make do not lead in some ideal direction, maybe there are practical reasons for that.
On the other hand, if you advocate for govt. regulations, what you are really advocating for is the govt. using the full force and coercive power of the police state to compel people to so something they do not want to do.
And for that, in a free society, you better have a damn good reason.
I do not think CAFE or the ethanol mandate meets that standard.

Reply to  TonyL
June 10, 2018 9:22 am

TonyL, I am thinking along the same lines. Used to be “liberal” when that meant liberty, but now seem to be more libertarian. You will likely be interested in the writing of law professor Bruce Pardy, who asserts you can either have a coercive society or a market society, in which the only rule is to prevent coercion in free transactions.
See https://rclutz.wordpress.com/2018/05/19/on-coercive-climatism-writings-of-bruce-pardy/

TonyL
Reply to  Ron Clutz
June 10, 2018 3:40 pm

An interesting take on things.
I do not think it is quite the Classical Liberalism of the US Founding Fathers. (Adams, Jefferson, Madison, Franklin, etc.) But I am sure I hear echos from the past.

Reply to  TonyL
June 10, 2018 11:42 am

“Government” has little interest in any real improvement to the lot of those who are trying to live real lives in the real world outside the bounds of the parasitoidic little foreign country that is called The District of Columbia. There may be only one remaining solution to improving conditions in “The Swamp” — R. I. P., Uncle Sam.

jdgalt
Reply to  rockyredneck
June 10, 2018 11:20 am

Reducing speed limits was tried for years. It didn’t work because the people refused to obey, as well they should refuse.

It’s none of government’s business if an individual “wastes” a resource he has paid for. Especially when he made a well-thought-out tradeoff to get something he wants more, like the way many people chose to drive heavier cars for better crash protection. It’s unacceptable for government to try to take that choice away from anybody.

If it were shown objectively that fuel production imposes costs on other people, then it would be appropriate for government to impose a Pigouvian tax, raising the price of fuel, and let each driver decide for himself whether to find ways to use less or just pay the tax. But such costs have not been shown, and environmentalist attempts to “prove” one always result in ridiculous assignments of blame — such as blaming drivers for the cost of Middle East wars, which (even if assumed to be for oil) were only necessary because environmentalists themselves preventing us finding and exploiting the oil in our own country and its coastal waters.

The people who lobbied for, wrote, enacted, and enforced these CAFE standards need to be held responsible — in every way including legal and financial — for the deaths they have caused and are continuing to cause.

Toto
Reply to  rockyredneck
June 10, 2018 11:50 am

“If decreasing fuel usage is the goal, there are simpler answers.”
One of the goals. The cynical view would be that they had another goal too, decreasing the number of cars. What if we set a scientific-looking goal nobody could meet? And when the manufacturers cheat, we blast them into bankruptcy?

MarkW
Reply to  rockyredneck
June 10, 2018 12:48 pm

Making a car cost twice as much and less reliable to boot, in order to save 10% in fuel usage.
Not a bargain in anyone’s book.

Roger Knights
June 10, 2018 8:35 am

A slogan to counteract advocates for more stringent CAFE standards is, “Brought to you by the folks who gave you the 55 MPH speed limit.”

rovingbroker
June 10, 2018 8:41 am

Paul Driessen wrote, “A 2002 National Academy of Sciences study estimated that automotive mileage standards had helped cause as many as 2,600 extra fatalities in 1993 … ”

That’s out of 40,150 deaths. (see Wikipedia link below).

Is there a link to the NAS study? WUWT readers are skeptical of “data” that comes from models (likely in this case) and double skeptical of claims not accompanied by a link to the source.

From 1993 to 2016, automobile fatalities per 100 million vehicle miles traveled has fallen from 1.75 to 1.18.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year

commieBob
Reply to  rovingbroker
June 10, 2018 9:15 am

I fully agree.

When the alarmists calculate the number of deaths due to pollution, we mock them.

On the other hand … when my wife got into her one serious accident I was extremely glad that she was driving a truck, not the family econobox.

MarkW
Reply to  commieBob
June 10, 2018 12:52 pm

It’s trivial to show that the deaths due to pollution metric is almost entirely made up, and the part that isn’t made up is based on bad science, such as the linear no threshold garbage.
On the other hand it’s easy to show that lighter cars provide less protection in a crash, and from there calculate the number of extra deaths lighter cars have caused.

Reply to  MarkW
June 10, 2018 2:39 pm

MarkW,

Protection for who? Yes the heavy car driver, but how much more deaths do heavier cars have caused by killing other car drivers, motorcyclists, cyclists and pedestrians, plus accidents of cars driving into homes, etc.?

Reply to  Ferdinand Engelbeen
June 10, 2018 4:41 pm

You seem to imply that driving would be safer if everyone drove lighter cars. Semis, trees, and concrete pillars are not going to get lighter. It would be good if all cars were close to equal weight, but at the heavier end, not lighter.

I strongly suspect that the weight of the auto does not significantly impact the number of motorcyclists, cyclists, and pedestrian deaths; they are no match for any weight car. Finally, the most frequent casualties in driving into homes are the drivers and occupants in the auto. A heavier car would offer better protection.

Reply to  Jtom
June 11, 2018 11:09 am

Jtom,

The point I try to make is that heavier cars are not safer if they hit a similar car or a truck or an adult tree or a bridge or… But a heavier car has a higher impact on smaller cars and other road users. My 560 kg 2CV was so light in “steel” plate that if I should hit a pedestrian or cyclist, it would do more damage to my car than to them. The point is that for a heavier car to have the same crumple zone, that zone must be stronger too to withstand the heavier weight…

Further, the insurance companies do use tarrifs which are higher with more power under the hood (which is the case for most heavier cars), I suppose that is because that is directly related to the damage done to other road users…

MarkW
Reply to  Ferdinand Engelbeen
June 10, 2018 6:57 pm

The facts are freely available should you ever bother yourself to look.
How often to cars drive into homes? Are the drivers in your country really that bad?
As to motorcyclists, cyclists, pedestrians, etc, even a 100 pound car would kill any of them. So your whines regarding big cars are meaningless.

Reply to  MarkW
June 11, 2018 11:14 am

MarkW,

Se my previous remark about damage to others and heavier cars… And as said somewhere else, I have sampled all fatal accidents in my country published over a year. The number of people killed by car crashes were about in ratio with one of the three main items: horsepower, speed and weight…

commieBob
Reply to  MarkW
June 10, 2018 5:39 pm

Weight isn’t absolutely necessary for safety. Consider egg drop contests. The challenge is to build a container in which an egg can be dropped from a dizzying height without breaking. Normally, grade four students are capable of producing a viable design.

MarkW
Reply to  commieBob
June 10, 2018 7:00 pm

The bigger the car, the bigger the crumple zone and the less damage to the occupants.
Egg drop tests are an invalid comparison for a number of reasons. First off it’s a drop, so the mass makes a big difference in how fast the egg carrier is going on impact. For your analogy to work, all egg carriers would have to be put on a sled so that they could all be accelerated to the same velocity for impact.

Secondly, would a carrier with two inches of foam work better than a carrier with one inch? If so, bigger is better.

Reply to  MarkW
June 11, 2018 11:20 am

MarkW,

Two errors: first the speed of falling of the carrier not only is a matter of mass, but also of streamline. If the lighter has a better streamline, it may fall faster.

Second, a bigger care is not the same as a heavier car. A heavier car needs a stronger construct to have the same crumple zone at impact with a solid subject and therefore is more dangerous to other road users.

Reply to  rovingbroker
June 10, 2018 9:39 am

I think this is the study.
https://www.nap.edu/catalog/10172/effectiveness-and-impact-of-corporate-average-fuel-economy-cafe-standards?onpi_newsdoc073001=
I have not read it. Even if valid, the technologies have changed sufficiently since 2002 that i don’t automatically accept the notion it applies today. Paul Driessen’s opinion does provoke thought, but it doesn’t give me (a newspaper volunteer columnist) sufficient evidence to be certain the relationship between CAFE and highway deaths.

rovingbroker
Reply to  Steve Piet
June 10, 2018 10:56 am

Thank you, that appears to be the source.

In appendix A, “A Dissent on Safety Issues: Fuel Economy and Highway Safety” the dissenters conclude in part …

The relationships between vehicle weight and safety are complex and not measurable with any reasonable degree of certainty at present. The relationship of fuel economy to safety is even more tenuous. But this does not mean there is no reason for concern. Significant fuel economy improvements will require major changes in vehicle design. Safety is always an issue whenever vehicles must be redesigned.

In addition, the distribution of vehicle weights is an important safety issue. Safety benefits should be possible if the weight distribution of light-duty vehicles could be made more uniform, and economic gains might result from even partly correcting the negative externality that encourages individuals to transfer safety risks to others by buying ever larger and heavier vehicles.

Finally, it appears that in certain kinds of accidents, reducing weight will increase safety risk, while in others it may reduce it. Reducing the weights of light-duty vehicles will neither benefit nor harm all highway users; there will be winners and losers. All of these factors argue for caution in formulating policies, vigilance in testing vehicles and monitoring safety trends, and continued efforts to increase understanding of highway safety issues.

It’s complicated.

Reply to  rovingbroker
June 10, 2018 10:06 am

The leading causes of automotive fatalities are risky behavior: speeding, drunken driving and failure to wear a seatbelt each account for about 10,000 fatalities a year. Over 10,000 fatalities per year are motorcyclists and pedestrians which clearly don’t have anything to do with CAFE standards, a third of fatalities occur outside the vehicle. Not sure what relevance 25 year old data has to today’s situation.

jdgalt
Reply to  Phil.
June 10, 2018 11:35 am

US government (NHTSA) studies on the causes of collision deaths are unreliable, because they mandate that the local police agencies that report the data do so in a biased way. For instance, an accident gets reported as “alcohol related” if anyone involved — even a pedestrian — had a measurable blood alcohol content. Similarly for drug-related, speed-related, and seat-belt-related injuries. All of these risks are behaviors NHTSA wants discouraged, so it defines them in ways that exaggerate their numbers.

But NHTSA doesn’t want to discourage driving small cars, so if their statistics even report those events as a category (which I doubt) they will undercount them.

Kristi Silber
Reply to  Phil.
June 10, 2018 3:59 pm

Heavier vehicles have a longer breaking time/distance, so the CAFE standards could affect pedestrian, motorcycle and bicycle fatalities.

MarkW
Reply to  Kristi Silber
June 10, 2018 7:01 pm

Heavier vehicles have greater traction and bigger tires, so they have shorter breaking distances.

A C Osborn
Reply to  MarkW
June 11, 2018 9:28 am

Would you care to provide some actual real life results for that?
Even cars of the same size & weight can have stopping distances up to 10 yards different at 70Mph and 2 yards at 30Mph.
Sports cars tend to have the shortest braking distances.

Reply to  MarkW
June 11, 2018 11:38 am

MarkW,

Please provide us with some references for that. In real life, the test of small cars showed that the lightest of them had the shortest breaking distance. And what do you think is the breaking distance of a 40 tons truck at the same speed: the biggest tires possible and the largest breaking distance…

Whatever the tyres: the maximum theoretical speed reduction is 1 G or 9,81 m/s^2. If you try to go over that, your car is going over. Only with brake rockets or an anchor (as for landing on an aircraft carrier), you can reduce your speed faster than 1 G. Then the real reduction depends of a lot of things: on dry road 0.8-0.9 G for most cars, 30% less if the weels block during breaking, in between with a good non-skid system, 35% less on wet road, 90% less on ice,…

Felix
Reply to  MarkW
June 11, 2018 12:01 pm

Trucks do have better brakes, but also often carry heavy loads, with a lot of inertia, so it generally takes them longer to slow down. Tractor trailer rigs are prone to jackknife.

https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/ourroads/long-stopping-distances

Greg F
Reply to  Kristi Silber
June 10, 2018 9:22 pm

Heavier vehicles don’t slide off a snow covered road as easily as a lighter one. I can’t tell you how many times I have been behind a sub compact car fishtailing on slippery roads while my car was having no issues at all with traction.

Reply to  Greg F
June 11, 2018 11:49 am

Greg,

Depends of the car: I have done things in snow and on ice with my 560 kg 2CV that were only possible with a 4 wheel drive at that time. Reason: front wheel traction. I still remember driving down from a bridge under snow and having to brake for two ford mustangs (once popular here) which ended backwards down the slope: too much weight in the back and back wheel traction…

When the roads are icy here, public transport buses don’t go out anymore as too many ended in the roadsides, because they have their motor in the back and back wheel driving…

rovingbroker
Reply to  Greg F
June 11, 2018 3:14 pm

Greg F wrote, “I can’t tell you how many times I have been behind a sub compact car fishtailing on slippery roads … ”

I’ll counter your “I can’t tell you” with my own. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen tractor trailers sitting jackknifed next to the highway while my car was having no issues at all with traction.

CWinNY
Reply to  Phil.
June 11, 2018 4:53 am

Be careful when citing speeding as a proximate cause of an accident. If you drive through a green light at 35 mph in a 30 mph zone, and are T-boned by someone running a red light, and you admit to driving at 35, speeding will be cited as contributing to the accident.

June 10, 2018 8:49 am

It’s “grisly”.

David Onkels
June 10, 2018 8:49 am

Grrr…

Greg
June 10, 2018 8:57 am

There was joke at one time: yes sir, this vehicle has a crumple zone ( the bad news is you’re sitting in it ).

This is no longer a joke.

I recently helped a friend in Europe to chose a new panel van. Even the most expensive marques like Iveco and Mercedes-Benz now have bodywork as thin as a coke can. You move it a couple of mm with the end of your finger. Same reason : lighter vehicle , more mpg. All vans now need lining with plywood as soon as you buy them to prevent them having outward dents everywhere as soon as you start to work with them.

Of course that more than negates the weight gain they got by using lighter sheet metal but they comply with ridiculous emission requirements as they come off the line.

Tantor
Reply to  Greg
June 10, 2018 4:32 pm

The body work is thin because they moved the steel to the structure, crumple zones, bumpers, and door beams. Modern cars are quite heavy compared to earlier cars.

Manufacturers have made great strides in engine and driveline efficiency, but they use that up by adding weight to meet safety requirements. It’s a never ending cycle.

u.k.(us)
Reply to  Tantor
June 10, 2018 6:11 pm

Curb weight of my “grocery getter” 2002 Tahoe: 4900 pounds.
Weight of 2002 Malibu : 3100 pounds
Weight of 2002 Toyota Camry: 3400 pounds
Weight of 2002 Camaro: 3600 pounds
Weight of 2002 Corvette: 3200 pounds
===========
2017 Tahoe: 5500 pounds
2017 Malibu: 3300 pounds
2017 Camry: 3300 pounds
2017 Camaro: 33-4100 pounds
2017 Vette: 3600 pounds
2017 Prius: 3000 pounds
——————
In the end, if it comes down to it, I’ll take the mass.
Best to avoid it though.

June 10, 2018 8:59 am

With respect I’d rather be in a lightweight carbon fiber car powered buy a 2 litre turbodiesel with a rollcage weighing 500kg and capable of 80 mpg than a 2 tonne yank tank made out of steel..

The targets are not incompatible. Just US car manufacturers are unwilling to innovate.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Leo Smith
June 10, 2018 9:16 am

I prefer my 3 ton yank tank. Well. 6600 lbs to be exact.

DonK3113
Reply to  Leo Smith
June 10, 2018 9:45 am

Mr Smith: You should be able to buy the vehicle of your choice, just as I should be able to buy the vehicle of my choice. The problem arrises when Big Government (in my own interest, of course) tries to restrict my choices. Do you consider your own intellect so superior that you reserve for yourself the right to make my choices?

John P Schneider
Reply to  DonK3113
June 10, 2018 12:56 pm

He doesn’t necessarily consider his intellect superior. He has determined that his needs and your should be identical. He doesn’t need children – neither do you. He commutes 1.5 miles – you should buy you home within 1.5 miles of your work.
See? Just assume that your situation is properly determined, and everyone else should adjust to your situation.
As for me, I love my 6.1L, top speed >170mph, 5-seater SRT tank! WooHOO!

Doug Huffman
Reply to  John P Schneider
June 10, 2018 3:26 pm

Mine is diesel powered xDrive 6000# and cruises happily all day at 100+ mpg; it does kill the mileage

Kristi Silber
Reply to  DonK3113
June 10, 2018 4:52 pm

The market cannot act on choices that are not there. With greater innovation, car manufacturers could build safer, more economical cars. There is little incentive for fundamental innovation in the way cars are designed to weather impacts – it’s not a glamorous selling point. Surely there must be new, lightweight materials that are better than steel? But people have the “safe” choice in the form of heavier vehicles, so if that is their main concern, the supply is there. What’s not taken into account by buyers (or some researchers) is the greater likelihood of a heavy, large vehicle injuring or killing someone else more vulnerable. Traffic deaths are a function not just of what one is driving, but what might hit you. If I can only afford a compact, I am more vulnerable the more SUVs are on the road. People’s choices affect not only their own safety, but that of others.

The market doesn’t care about safety, mpg, or GHGs. The market is a structure, not a sentient being, and certainly not a democracy. The market is a good and necessary thing, but it can’t be counted on to solve problems or innovate – that requires foresight and investment in ideas for which there is not yet a market. The market is best at selling what’s available already.

Think of the international market for fundamental innovations in efficiency!

At any rate, the CAFE standards have not restricted your ability to buy big, heavy vehicles so far.

Felix
Reply to  Kristi Silber
June 10, 2018 5:03 pm

US traffic deaths peaked at 54,589 in 1972 and hit (!) a low of 32,479 in 2011. This despite population growth from ~210 to 312 million. The highest fatality rate per 100,000 was in 1937, almost three times higher than the lowest, in 2014.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year

An aging population. seat belts, air bags, better vehicles, the speed limit and, for a while, less driving due to the shock of higher prices lowered the death rate from the early ’70s.

Felix
Reply to  Felix
June 10, 2018 5:03 pm

Can’t delete this comment, no longer needed after editing the previous.

MarkW
Reply to  Felix
June 10, 2018 7:05 pm

Yet according to our leftist friends, the market would gladly kill a few more customers if it meant no profit, and no company ever did anything good unless they were forced to by government which is all knowing and all caring.

Felix
Reply to  MarkW
June 10, 2018 7:17 pm

What the Left can’t tolerate is letting people make their own decisions. The market will tell carmakers what products to supply.

Some people will care about mileage, perhaps for their commuting car, when the only passenger is him or herself and maybe a car pooling buddy. But when transporting the precious cargo of children, then bigger is better and mileage hardly matters.

Government mucking around just distorts the market. The collective decisions of 320 million citizen consumers will arrive at the right decision and mix of vehicles. Vox populi vox dei. Political freedom is the flip side of the coin of economic freedom.

MarkW
Reply to  Kristi Silber
June 10, 2018 7:03 pm

Kristi what is the color of the sky in your world, because in this world car makers are constantly marketing how safe their cars are.
When gas prices go up, car makers market gas mileage. When gas prices go down, they market power.

Like most leftists, Kristi can’t fathom that everyone else isn’t as ignorant and naive as she is.

CapitalistRoader
Reply to  Leo Smith
June 10, 2018 10:43 am

“With respect I’d rather be in a lightweight carbon fiber car powered buy a 2 litre turbodiesel with a rollcage weighing 500kg and capable of 80 mpg than a 2 tonne yank tank made out of steel..”

Your preferred vehicle probably costs at least three times as much as two-ton American car. But more power to you if you can afford it. Most of us can’t.

MarkW
Reply to  CapitalistRoader
June 10, 2018 12:55 pm

Have you seen the statistics on how hard it is to repair carbon fiber after even a minor fender bender?

Felix
Reply to  MarkW
June 10, 2018 3:33 pm

I know from painful experience. A bill for eight grand after hitting a deer in my car rather than my Detroit Iron pickup, whose bumper wouldn’t even have been bent.

dmacleo
Reply to  Leo Smith
June 10, 2018 11:56 am

my full frame 2010 marquis is built to withstand 70mph rear end.
with full frame vehicle there is little that CAN’t be repaired. much of unibody types cannot be repaired with certain damages.

MarkW
Reply to  Leo Smith
June 10, 2018 12:54 pm

It doesn’t matter to you that your car will cost over $100K and be impossible to repair after even a minor fender bender.
It’s all because those evil car companies just don’t care about your opinion.

Trevor
June 10, 2018 9:08 am

Guest opinion by Paul Driessen : “My article explains why Pruitt is right”
“The Paris Treaty HAS NOTHING do with the climate or environment. “Climate change” is now used to justify replacing the capitalist economic model with a global governance system – and redistributing the world’s resources and wealth. The treaty itself says climate action must include an emphasis on “gender equality,” “empowerment of women,” “intergenerational equity” and “climate justice.” These are the “climate dangers” that supposedly justify lethal CAFÉ rules.”
What a GHASTLY PROPOSAL ! And Australia SIGNED UP TO THIS TREATY !!!
THOSE “CRITTERS THAT NEED TO BE REMOVED FROM THE SWAMP” have got EVERYWHERE !
VICTIM-HOOD IS THE NEW STATUS SYMBOL ! Not long ago people strove for the FINER THINGS in life
including ACHIEVEMENT. Now they get Nobel Prizes JUST for being elected !
Australia has IT’S OWN VERSION OF “THOSE CRITTERS” and OUR SWAMP is
based in CANBERRA ! UTOPIA on STEROIDS ! Spouting propaganda !
THEY INFEST ACADEMIA AND POLLUTE OUR CHILDREN’S MINDS with this “Greens”
Marxist , Feminist , Racist , Sexist , Genderist , Catastrophist BLEND of nonsense that results
in People like Obama and Clinton and LAWS like the CAFE Standards !
Thanks Mr Driessen ! With people like you becoming more vocal it is to
be hoped that MANY MORE PEOPLE will express their desire to RETURN TO REASON
and COMMON SENSE and DECENCY and FREE SPEECH !
“Thankfully, EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt recently proposed to re-examine the 54.5-mpg-by-2025 Obama EPA-NHTSA standards – and possibly freeze them at the pending 2020 level of 39 mpg. Mr. Pruitt noted that the standards had been implemented after years of lobbying by environmental pressure groups, and that assertions of climate and weather benefits do not reflect scientific or historical reality.”
THERE IS STILL AN AWFUL LOT OF WORK TO BE DONE BEFORE THIS FULLY MATERIALISES !

Tom in Florida
Reply to  Trevor
June 10, 2018 9:37 am

Shout, shout, let it all out
These are the things I can do without

June 10, 2018 9:13 am

A major problem with crash tests is that they only involve the car in question hitting a stationary obstacle. The energy in such a collision is obviously smaller for lighter vehicle, hence they tend to do well in such tests, but they don’t reflect at all what would happen if struck by a moving truck.

jdgalt
Reply to  climanrecon
June 10, 2018 11:38 am

They’re forcing big rigs to be built lighter too. Be afraid.

Kalifornia Kook
Reply to  jdgalt
June 10, 2018 1:01 pm

“They’re forcing big rigs to be built lighter too.” True, but that just raises their payload. Same limitation on the scales. 72,000 lbs standard (US), 80-100,000 with more expensive licensing.

Reply to  climanrecon
June 10, 2018 12:38 pm

Doesn’t make any difference for a small or heavy passenger car if you have a frontal collission with a 40 tons truck: in both cases you loose… Neither any difference if you reduce the weight of all cars on the road: all what counts is speed at the moment of impact and crumple zone.

Reply to  Ferdinand Engelbeen
June 10, 2018 2:37 pm

A smaller car equals a smaller target.

MarkW
Reply to  rockyredneck
June 10, 2018 7:06 pm

Doesn’t matter, since you can’t fit a car of any size into the same lane as a semi, both the big car and the little car are going to get hit.

MarkW
Reply to  climanrecon
June 10, 2018 12:57 pm

A lighter car stops more quickly, which increases the G forces on the passenger.
It doesn’t matter if a lighter car reduces the stress on the cars frame, what matters is the stress being put on the bodies of the passengers, and they still weigh the same.

Reply to  MarkW
June 10, 2018 2:31 pm

MarkW,

If you have a collission with a 40 tons truck, it doesn’t matter if you drive a 0.5 tons car or a 5 tons SUV, neither if the crumple zone of your car is 1 meter or 2 meter. In both cases the 40 tons truck makes one crumple zone over the full length of your car…

MarkW
Reply to  Ferdinand Engelbeen
June 10, 2018 7:08 pm

Ferd, what is it with you and ridiculous analogies.
Is it really your position that since a big car and a little car would both be creamed by a semi, it doesn’t matter that the government mandates small cars?
What about the other 99.9% or vehicle accidents?
The largest single category of vehicle accidents is a single car hitting a fixed object, and in that case, bigger will save your life.

Reply to  MarkW
June 11, 2018 12:11 pm

MarkW,

There are some differences between Europe and the US in that population density in general is higher and as result also traffic density and driving distances are smaller. The main road I do frequent use is one of the main north-south connections in Europe. Result: on weekdays over 50% in length/volume/weight is 40-tons trucks. On the ring road around Antwerp 3 of four lanes are often occupied by trucks. Truck-truck accidents and truck-car accidents are about daily and more. In the latter case, the car is the weakest part, no matter how big it was before the crash…

About hitting a solid subject: speed is the main point. Even if your car’s crumple zone is 3 times my car, if I need a full stop from 110 km/h (maximum speed of the car) and you start from 130 km/h (speed limit in France and Holland), when my car is fully stopped, your car still has a speed of 70 km/h. Hitting a solid object with 70 km/h is not very healthy to say the least…

And again; bigger is not the same as heavier: you can make big carbon fibre cars which weight a lot less and have an enormous crumple zone and very low gas consumption if they are extremely streamlined. The discussion is about heavier vs. lighter, not smaller vs. bigger…

Reply to  MarkW
June 12, 2018 8:03 am

MarkW,

From the US statistics:

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/large-trucks/fatalityfacts/large-trucks/2016

55% of all occupant fatalities in big trucks is from rollover.
47% of occupant fatalities in SUV’s is from rollover.
42% of occupant fatalities in pick-up’s is from rollover.
22% of occupant fatalities in passenger cars is from rollover.

In the case of rollover, the front crash zone is of no help, wearing a seat belt is what saves your life.

Total fatal crashes of SUV + pick-up’s: 9,471 (2016)
Total fatal crashes of passenger cars: 13,930

Tom in Florida
June 10, 2018 9:13 am

“the rules require that cars and light trucks on average across each manufacturer’s entire smorgasbord of vehicles must get better and better mileage over a period of years.”

So now you know the real reason for having at least one EV line in your smorgasbord of vehicles.

MarkW
Reply to  Tom in Florida
June 10, 2018 12:58 pm

And why auto companies are willing to sell them at a loss.

Reply to  Tom in Florida
June 12, 2018 8:21 am

I guess EVs get infinite mileage on a gallon of gas, since they don’t use any. That certainly helps the fleet-average.

June 10, 2018 9:13 am

Paul, your one paragraph about the Obama Administration changing/lowering the FAA Air Traffic Controller standards to promote “diversity” is something that chilled me profoundly when I first heard it on the Tucker program As a FAA certified Air Traffic Controller-Control Tower Operator I saw some of the targeted new hires in action in both FAA class and actually controlling. I once handled peak hour traffic at the worlds busiest airport, at one point talking to 44 aircraft, and shudder to think what consequences the air travel public may face due to this Obama program. The issue needs to be addressed immediately.

Latitude
Reply to  Ron Long
June 10, 2018 10:05 am

The libs/progressives aren’t smart enough to realize what they are really saying…….
something very racist bigoted and discriminating

jdgalt
Reply to  Latitude
June 10, 2018 11:41 am

They know perfectly well. They just don’t want us to catch them at it.

MarkW
Reply to  Latitude
June 10, 2018 1:07 pm

I’ve debated with liberals who actually believe that there is no such thing as “best qualified”.
For each position every candidate is either qualified or not qualified. So once you determine
the population of qualified candidates, it doesn’t matter how you pick the ones to hire. So requiring this picking to be done based on race cannot reduce the over all quality of those being hired.

Of course, when I was a teenager, hiring based on race was something the NAACP widely condemned.

Reply to  MarkW
June 10, 2018 5:01 pm

In the private sector, we strove to only hire over-qualified employees, who could eventually be promoted up the line to run the company (or least be promoted to their level of incompetence – the Peter principle). The entry level position was just to introduce them to how we ran the company. Many hirees today will never see a promotion, and more than a few will claim it’s because of racial discrimination.

MarkW
Reply to  Jtom
June 10, 2018 7:08 pm

It’s the all purpose excuse these days.

jdgalt
Reply to  Ron Long
June 10, 2018 11:39 am

As long as the Keystone Gestapo (TSA) are in place I won’t be flying anywhere anyway.

John P Schneider
Reply to  jdgalt
June 10, 2018 1:20 pm

Wish I could say that. We like to see different places (Boeing’s flight museums in Seattle area, Oshkosh, Wright Patterson Museum, friends and relatives on the East Coast) and driving that far is not an option. So we fly – pre-approved. Costly, no guarantee against full-body search, by clowns that I have accidentally slipped large knives past.
I don’t know that TSA has really stopped any hijackings. I do know it took me a while to figure out why the shoe bomber, the underwear bomber, and a few others looked so misshapen when they got off the planes. Unlike pre 9-11, passengers no longer follow instructions from hijackers. They stop them – and sometimes beat the crap out of them. I would think that would be quite a deterrent. Passengers don’t have training on minimum force, or how to tell when an attacker has been neutralized, so they tend to be conservative, i.e., make sure.

Leon Brozyna
June 10, 2018 9:42 am

Forget those CAFÉ standards … no, that ain’t ever gonna happen … then, let them put the actual mileage results on the car stickers like they do now and let the consumer decide. That ought to get them bureaucrat’s panties in a real bind.

As it is right now with the CAFÉ standards, just watch the new car ads these days … all the cars look the same. And with light truck standards gearing up, soon they too will all start to look the same. Makes you start to wonder … is this concern about the environment, access to oil, or just plain raw bureaucratic power? (That’s a rhetorical question, son)

Kalifornia Kook
Reply to  Leon Brozyna
June 10, 2018 1:21 pm

very rhetorical.

June 10, 2018 9:46 am

CAFE is just another example of the EPA and any bureaucratic tendencies — they never stop when something is addressed, they continue pressing harder and harder, splitting hairs, then splitting the split hairs, and on and on ad infinitum. EPA, stop it — enough is enough.

MarkW
Reply to  beng135
June 10, 2018 1:08 pm

Which is why all federal agencies need a sunset provision.
Disband them completely and if there is still a need, start a new agency with different people.

Ian W
Reply to  MarkW
June 10, 2018 7:15 pm

No, all agency regulations should have a sunset provision, 12 months would do. Failure of the regulation to be passed by House and Senate should result in the regulation being withdrawn with a bar on re-regulation of the same area of five years.

June 10, 2018 9:58 am

The biggest problem with the gas mileage issue is that you can’t legislate the laws of physics. There is only so much potential energy in a gallon of gas, and most of it will be lost to waste heat because nobody can yet figure out cold combustion of gasoline, and probably never will. Again, that physics thing. The same government that wants better mileage also requires a 10% ethanol mix which actually reduces mileage. Many of the other government requirements for safety and pollution control add more parts to the car which adds weight and also works against mileage. Today, some cars are designed to shut the engine off every time it comes to a stop just to save a little gas. That tells us that manufacturers are really scraping the bottom of the barrel for ideas to meet government demands that are entirely based on pixie dust and ignorance. I guarantee you the people that come up with magic legislation that will move four average Americans across the country with only four gallons of gas don’t know the first thing about how a car works.

Steve from Rockwood
June 10, 2018 10:06 am

If you consider fuel mileage and vehicle weight together, how much progress have we really made?

A Toyota Prius at 3,000 lbs gets about 50 MPG. A Ford F150 at 5,000 lbs gets about 30 MPG.

5000/3000 (weight ratio) = 50/30 (mileage ratio).

Aren’t we just making vehicles lighter and marketing them as technology improvements?

|Ian Macdonald
June 10, 2018 10:08 am

We manage to get much higher mpg than typical American cars though, and without having to go to featherweight construction. Think it has to do with using smaller more efficient engines coupled with manual transmission.

That said, the cost of fuel in the UK is ridiculous. We are an oil producing nation, yet it’s more costly here than in France or Germany.

Ed Bo
Reply to  |Ian Macdonald
June 10, 2018 11:06 am

Ian:

A couple of points you need to consider in making the comparison (which a lot of people don’t):

The UK imperial gallon is 20% larger than the US gallon, so a car that gets 30 miles per US gallon gets 36 miles per imperial gallon.

Pollution restrictions are substantially tighter in the US, and meeting them has efficiency costs, probably about 10 – 12%. A lot of this is from lower compression ratios.

With the lower compression ratios, lower octane fuel can be used in the US. This means that a given amount of US fuel is less expensive (and requires less energy content in the raw feedstock than European fuel.

A C Osborn
Reply to  Ed Bo
June 11, 2018 9:53 am

Nothing to do with it, the UK motorists pay 60%-65% fuel duties & Vat.
So a UK gallon costs us $7.92, so even at a 20% reduction that would be $6.34/US gallon, remind us again how much you pay?
Since when did lower compression ratios = less polution?

MarkW
Reply to  |Ian Macdonald
June 10, 2018 1:10 pm

Smaller less powerful engines can be a safety hazard on American highways.

KT66
June 10, 2018 10:09 am

That Gov regulations on automobiles caused the great step change improvement of fuel efficiency and much cleaner emissions during the 80s is another myth the left believe. I was being taught this in a university class, when I pointed out that it was completely coincidental. The revolutionary improvement was caused by availability of new technology, specifically the engine management computer and electronic fuel injection. It would of happened anyway, with or with out the regulations. The incentive for the development of the new technology came from auto racing’s stiff competition and the desire to win. Ford was the leader of auto racing engine technology in Formula 1 and Indy Car racing with their Ford -Cosworth series of racing engines. To maintain their edge, Ford in conjunction with a Japanese firm developed this technology for racing. When applied to their production cars it forced the entire industry world wide to adopt similar new technologies. By today’s standards the computer was primitive, but it was revolutionary at the time.

MarkW
Reply to  KT66
June 10, 2018 1:11 pm

The left is convinced that nothing good happens absent government mandate.

June 10, 2018 10:12 am

“Saying the air traffic controller work force was “too white,” the Obama Federal Aviation Administration allegedly replaced hiring standards based on science, math and ability to handle intense pressure with rules designed to increase racial diversity. It’s hard to find a more flagrant example of bureaucrats putting people’s safety and lives so low on their list of priorities. Difficult but not impossible.”

Non sequitur. Only tangentially related to the subject of CAFE and auto safety.

MarkW
Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
June 10, 2018 1:12 pm

However it is relevant to the subject of stupid government rules, which is also what this article is about.

Kalifornia Kook
Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
June 10, 2018 1:28 pm

Joel, I think you missed the connection.
1) Higher CAFE means lighter vehicles.
2) Lighter vehicles may mean higher injuries/fatalities
3) Government has shown a similar disregard for safety in its FAA hiring mandates.

Regards

Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
June 10, 2018 6:19 pm

Personally, I find the description ‘too white’ is, in itself, quite offensive.

MarkW
Reply to  Annie
June 10, 2018 7:11 pm

At one point in time, the left was telling us that racism was evil.
Modern leftists now complain when government isn’t racist enough.

June 10, 2018 11:01 am

So, in sum, people who drive smaller, less sturdy motor vehicles get killed more often than people who drive larger, sturdier motor vehicles. Lowering idiot-driver protection standards (i.e. less armor) in order to increase idiot-activist satisfaction (i.e., reinforced self delusion), costs lives. But, hey, that’s okay, because it increases the rate of death, which prevents even more people from using fossil fuel at all.

It’s sort of the designed-to-fail economic strategy taken to another level.

MarkW
Reply to  Robert Kernodle
June 10, 2018 1:13 pm

I’ve said in the past, the most of the energy being saved by the CAFE standards comes from the reduction in the number of drivers on the road.

Reply to  Robert Kernodle
June 10, 2018 2:16 pm

Robert,

There is some difference in impact of two lightweight cars or two tanks driving with 70 km/h (50 mph) against each other: what counts is how much braking distance you have: that is the length of the crumple zone during the impact. For a real (military) thank that is near zero: the tank is not so much damaged, the content rather squashed…

The point is that despite much smaller cars in Europe and a lot less fuel use, there are far less fatalities in Europe per driven distance than in the US, see further down.

MarkW
Reply to  Ferdinand Engelbeen
June 10, 2018 7:15 pm

Ferd, your knowledge of auto construction is wrong, completely.
Where did you get the crazy idea that big cars have no crumple zones?
The fact is that big cars have crumple zones, in fact their crumple zones are bigger than smaller cars, which offers greater protection to the occupants. Which is why people in big cars survive at higher rates than do people in small cars.

I’ve always loved it when the simple minded decide that they are going to take a complex issue and try to reduce it to a single number. Perhaps because they haven’t been trained to handle more than one concept at a time.

If everything about American drivers and American roads were exactly identical, then merely comparing miles driven would be relevant.

Reply to  MarkW
June 11, 2018 12:24 pm

MarkW,

Have a better read of what I wrote: military tanks have near zero crumple zone. All what the driver has is the lengthening of the safety belt and/or airbag (if there is one in a tank…).
Indeed heavier cars mostly are bigger and have a larger nose and thus mostly a larger crumple zone than lighter cars, but that is not always the case. SUV’s in general have shorter noses and trucks and vans in Europe have little or no nose at all.

I haven’t seen any figures of survival rates of cars/types in the US. I know from one year sampling all fatal accidents in my own country that heavier/faster cars are more deadly for their occupants and for other road users…

Donald Horne
June 10, 2018 11:19 am

Definition… Bureaucratus inepticus – “…bureaucrats putting people’s safety and lives so low on their list of priorities.”

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