Study: Climate skeptics engage in more eco-friendly behavior than climate alarmists

By Dave Huber, The College Fix

A new study suggests those skeptical about climate change and climate alarmism behave in more climate-friendly ways than do those who are very concerned about the issue.

University of Michigan psychology graduate student Michael Hall‘s study looked at 600 Americans who “regularly reported their climate change beliefs, pro-environmental behavior, and other climate-change related measures.”

The results, published in the Journal of Environmental Psychology, divided subjects into three categories: the “Skeptical,” the “Cautiously Worried,” and the “Highly Concerned.” As you might expect, the “Skeptical” were most opposed to government climate policies; however, they were also “most likely to report engaging in individual-level pro-environmentalbehaviors” (emphasis added).

On the other hand, the “Highly Concerned,” while very supportive of government action on climate, were the least likely to behave in eco-friendly ways.

Does this surprise anyone?

Pacific Standard has more:

On seven occasions—roughly once every eight weeks—participants revealed their climate change beliefs, and their level of support for policies such as gasoline taxes and fuel economy standards.

They also noted how frequently they engaged in four environmentally friendly behaviors: recycling, using public transportation, buying “green” products, and using reusable shopping bags. …

While policy preferences of group members tracked with their beliefs, their behaviors largely did not: Skeptics reported using public transportation, buying eco-friendly products, and using reusable bags more often than those in the other two categories.

This pattern was found consistently through the year, leading the researchers to conclude that “belief in climate change does not appear to be a necessary or sufficient condition for pro-environmental behavior.”

Hall and his colleagues can only speculate about the reasons for their results. But regarding the concerned but inactive, the psychological phenomenon known as moral licensing is a likely culprit.

Read the full story here

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This looks like a rerun..

Bill5150

Good! Re-run it loud and often. I’ll re-run this: L. Di Craprio took a private aircraft across the Atlantic to receive an award for his wonderful global warming credentials…and then flew back again the next day, he was the only passenger.
Someone should add up Al Gores CO2 atrocities, and I don’t just mean when he opens his hideous lying pie hole.

commieBob

Conservatives are more likely to believe that the basis of the good society is the (voluntary) good behaviour of the individual. link
Liberals are more likely to place responsibility on the government.

Latitude

Hall and his colleagues can only speculate about the reasons for their results…
asswholes…..sounds like Hillary and her million blames…just can’t believe the facts
Their study showed that skeptics are not the stupid pigs they wanted them to be…so they have to speculate

drednicolson

Translation: “We don’t know how to spin this. We’ll get back to you on that.”

J Mac

Some things bear repeating, as it is helpful to cognition for slow learners.
Think of it as another thoughtful attribute of conservationists, sometimes referred to as ‘skeptics’.

James

I’ve long been bewildered about the fact that despite being the only climate skeptic in the family, I am the one who goes around turning off lights, fans, appliances etc that are not being used, which I do only because I am the one who pays the bills and I can’t stand waste. Now all is explained, thank you.

drednicolson

How many Greens would there be if they all had to pay their own electric bills?

Nick is right – this is what the MSM do. Keep on repeating an old story whose message they like – as if it’s new. “Wow – did that just happen again!?”

MangoChutney

It is a rerun @Nick Stokes.
The intention is to fight back against the relentless churnalism that is the BBC, The Guardian, Greenpeace, etc etc etc

JON R SALMI

“Do as I say, not as I do.” – The motto of the climate alarmist.

“Do as I say, not as I spew.” — The motto of the climate alarmist who drives instead of cycles.

Pop Piasa

All the while spewing waste items out the window of the vehicle they have a moral license to freely operate.

Steve Case

“Do as I say, not as I spew.”
Good one!

s-t

“It’s OK when we do it”

joelobryan

moral licensing is related to virtue signaling.
Moral licensing:
past “good” behavior literally makes it acceptable for one to do that next thing, which might not be good.
This kind of rationalization is an avoidance of psychological discomfort, an avoidance of cognitive dissonance.
Virtue signaling is similar. Such as look at me, I own a Tesla. And as it’s a virtuous zero-emissions vehicle, so my 10,000 square foot mansion and private jet lifestyle are acceptable. Also I put Democratic Party stickers on my car or lawn and support climate action around the office. Licensing at work.
Both are a forms of cognitive dissonance avoidance.
So now the story:
It happens all around us everyday, casual lying, that seemingly have no consequence. Even in things not climate related. Fibs people tell to alleviate a or prevent a discomfort.
Background: A long time ago, I was cadet at the USAF Academy. For those who do not know, the US military service academies have an honor code that (then) said: “I will not lie, cheat, or steal — nor tolerate those among us who do.”
Story: So I went on a date with this really cute girl in C-Springs in my senior year there. I took her out to dinner. I was 21, she was 20. She ordered a cocktail and dinner, and pulled out a driver’s license she had gotten from her older sister to show to the waitress. She got her drink. I said nothing at the time.
Later that evening, I was taking her home in my car, we got into a conversation on honesty. She said she was always honest and never lied. I reminded her of the drivers license she used to lie about her age. She was taken aback, I could see what I now realize was cognitive dissance, she was greatly discomforted by the realization that that dishonest act/behavior was exactly not in agreement with what she thought of herself. She of course wasn’t a cadet, so it was really of no consequence to anyone. Needless to say, we never went out on another date, but I always wonder how or if that changed her perception of what is a lie and what is virtue.
I probably could have kept my mouth shut, and got to home plate with her on the next date because until that point I tell she liked me. My 21 year old hormones sure would have liked that. And she wasn’t acadet, so her lying about her age wasn’t any kind of real problem (unless she’d gone driving and had an accident, as frequently happens today for undeage drinkers).
Those kind of scenarios were constantly before military academy cadets when I was there. Those scenarios were actually part of hon training at the academy. What to most would be a seemingly innocuous lie, like using a false ID to get a drink, but doing it as a cadet at a service academy frequently got cadets kicked out for an honor violation.
Which now today is why I get so infuriated when I see retired military generals (like Obama’s DNI Clapper) lying their ass off for partisan politics. The guy should have been dismissed and his retirement check taken away. But I digress.

beng135

Thanks. +100

TonyG

Honor is a lost concept

Roy Denio
Pop Piasa

Kind of reminds me of Trump and the media.

Simon

Ha ha, that’s very good…. I never thought of Trump as a little dog.

Simon

But you’re right, he does keep barking the same old nonsense. Witch hunt this, that fake news that….

F. Leghorn

Your full name is “Simple Simon”, isn’t it?

MarkW

Like most liberals, Simple Simon is convinced that he knows everything about everything and is the standard by which all others must be judged.

“Simon May 6, 2018 at 10:46 pm
But you’re right, he does keep barking the same old nonsense. Witch hunt this, that fake news that….”

There it is, fake news and character assassination from the faker’s mouth.
N.B. Silly simon ignores twelve months utter failure to “find” any Trump wrongdoing.
1) Trump is exonerated from any “Russia” scandal.
• a) Hillary and DNC paid for the dossier
• b) DNC faked the debates and submarined competitors for the primaries.
• c) HRC and Bill Clinton worked closely with Russia while selling Russia American Uranium.
• d) HRC deleted emails improperly.
• e) HRC mishandled classified information
• f) HRC ran a “quid pro quo” process to benefit Clinton Foundation donors. Note; that foreign countries immediately ceased donations when HRC lost the election.
• g) Obama’s staff illegally unmasked Trump Administration officials, daily; then leaked the information.
• h) Comey wrote his “exoneration decision” months before HRC or her close employees were interviewed.
• i) Comey’s subordinate rewrote Comey’s HRC exoneration to eliminate HRC criminality.
• j) Comey, McCabe, Mueller, Strzok, Baker, Page, Kortan and other members of the FBI/DOJ/CIA have destroyed any credibility for American counterintelligence and criminal investigations.
• k) Democrats are conducting a “scorched Earth” obstructionist campaign.
• l) In spite of Democrat obstructionism; Trump accomplished more in one year than other Presidents did in eight; including Trump’s immediate predecessors.
• m) Mueller’s investigation is deteriorating rapidly, without any findings of substance.
• n) etc. etc. etc.
The list goes on and on. Democrat and progressives daily irrational attacks on Trump have backfired. • • 1) Trump’s approval ratings are climbing.
• 2) Employment numbers are steadily improving.
• 3) Employees take home more of their salaries.
• 4) Korea appears to be cooperating.
• 5) Iran’s influences are lessening.
• 6) Hundreds of thousands of red ink silly regulations have been abolished! Allowing businesses and citizens to be more productive.
• 7) ISIS is being destroyed. Enough so, that Europe is having issues with returning ex-terrorists.
• 8) America is no longer weighed down by fake climate change pretenses. Eventually, entrenched activists will be removed from influence.
• 9) Trump’s Administration is working to restore trade treaties back to benefiting both countries.
• 10) Trump is blocking China’s theft of intellectual property.
• 11) Trump is working on blocking China’s subsidized industries from dumping product on America; killing jobs and businesses.
• 12) etc. etc. etc.
Obama got a Nobel Peace Prize for all talk, no action. Another example of progressive hypocrisy in action!
Which brings us back to silly simon.
N.B. silly’s ad hominems, demeaning comments, baseless accusations, condescension; all false.
Are silly’s deprecation insinuations evidence of:
Religious beliefs?,
Ignorance that puts space’s vacuum to shame?,
Paid trollop?
There is also puerile adolescent social misfit, living in his Mother’s attic; as another possibility. But we hope silly isn’t in such a pathetic strait.

Pop Piasa

Simon, you simple pieman. Trump is the cat, you fool! The media makes way more noise than he cares to. He is in the catbird seat despite the barking media. You twist my inference to your own indoctrination.

Simon

ATheoK
“1) Trump is exonerated from any “Russia” scandal.”
By who? His own team. That’s a joke. Let’s just wait till Mueller let’s us all know what the has found. Till then you are just blowing hot air.
What we do know though is that he paid off a porn star to be quiet. That’s after telling everyone he didn’t.
We do know his son met with the Russians on the promise of dirt on Clinton. And then that dirt was released.
We do know he is the most unpopular president in modern history for this time.
We do know he tells everyone not to be afraid of the NRA then backs down to them.
We do know he constantly calls people childish names… a bit like you comedians have here of me.
But what we don’t know is what the Republican Mueller has found. And he will keep that quiet till the time comes to talk turkey. And I for one am pretty confident that it will be bad news for comrade Don. If he is not guilty of collusion with the Russians, it is highly likely many of his dodgy business dealings will be up there in lights. Then you can tell me what a great guy he is.

Don’t forget, the “highly concerned” were most susceptible to depression from the lack of action on “climate change”.
Depression and self guilt; they whined about and then publicized worldwide.
Nor are any of us surprised at where/what climate alarmists moral imperatives are. Their litter left everywhere they protest, highlights their actual convictions; or lack thereof.
Jon R Salmi points out above, the climate alarmist motto; “Do as I say, not as I do.”

drednicolson

“My messiness is virtuous, your cleanliness is diabolical.”

Will Nelson

I know so many climate alarmists whose favorite thing in the world is to travel far and wide.

Pop Piasa

Max, they just want to see what impact they’ve had trying to save the world from folks like themselves.

Pop Piasa

Max, I have friends who are musicians and crew members involved in touring bands and creative filming projects in the STL region. Many chide me for being such a redneck that I would think that I know better than the doomsayers they idolize. It’s sort of weird when you point out actual facts and all of the sudden you become politically uncorrect.
Life for us is kind of like “The Outer Limits” episode where the astronauts return to earth and everyone but them has been hypnotized, possessed, or something of the kind.

Well Redneck, if there is one group that can comprehend modeling the intricacies of coupled, chaotic dynamic systems, it’s musicians.

Leo Smith

Well Max, if there is one group that can comprehend modeling the intricacies of coupled, chaotic dynamic systems, it’s certainly not musicians.
Music is all about coupled organised periodic systems
It is the antithesis of chaos.
Except modern Jazz of course, where the more pointless soulless impenetrable and arcane it is, the more the ‘cool school’ of metro sexual vapid liberals applaud it.
As a musician friend of mind remarked ‘anywhere within a quarter tone is good enough for jazz’.

drednicolson

They’ll prove the hipness of their taste in music if it makes their ears bleed.

D. J. Hawkins

@Leo;
I think Max forgot hit /sarc tag.

Pop Piasa

No problem guys, Max and I are on the same page. We share a dry sense of humor.

M Courtney

There would seem to be lots of confounding parameters in this study.

Latitude

…would this be the same people that blow up pipe lines…because they harm the environment and wildlife?
and promote bird and bat choppers and cookers…because they are good for the environment

John Robertson

Once again,surveys and studies…who you gonna believe?
The experts or your lying eyes.
The “environmentalists” self identify,proclaim their concern and leave squalor where ever they gather.
The conservationist uses what they need,leave the commons better than they find them and carry on minding their own business.
Not real hard to figure out which group is full of it..
I have always noticed our “progressive comrades” are not able to complete their own tasks(manage their own lives),yet always feel free to lecture the rest of us as to how we must live our lives better.
Especially their cant on us leading more “productive lives”.
Amazing advice from such a nonproductive segment of society.

drednicolson

Well they can’t just let us Bad People get away with doing Good Things, now can they. The hapless Sheeple will think we aren’t that bad. 😉

Ryan

I mulch all my leaves & small sticks, spread some on the flower beds and garden areas and turn the rest into the ground. Over the next summer I take the new dirt and dump it in my flower beds and garden areas, fill little holes in the yard. I recycle all my plastic and paper. I am a complete skeptic and don’t believe the BS. I believe the natural slow variation but not the man-made CO2 caused warming.

I recycle, keep my thermostat as low as possible, bicycle and walk short distances instead of driving.
If I was rich I’d pump as much CO2 into the atmosphere as I could to make the planet greener and stave off global cooling.

You’d rent Maxine Waters?

noaaprogrammer

The 4 years I lived in Boulder, Colorado, whenever we’d empty a tin can of food, I would take the paper off the can; use the can-opener again to remove the unopened end; put the two ends of the can inside the can; and finally flatten the can by stomping on it or using a sledge hammer. Whenever the garbage can was filled, it was taken to a metal recycling place. (The garbage can was so heavy, it took two guys to lift it.)
Paper labels were soaked off of glass jars; their metal lids were thrown into the garbage can holding the metal cans; and the jars were thrown into another garbage can and broken by plunging the sledge hammer up and down a few times until the pieces were small enough to interleave so as to take up less space. This heavy can of broken glass was then taken to a glass recycling place.
Whew! I finally gave up this extreme approach to recycling glass and metal, but I still have a large compost pile where we put all of our compostable food and soft paper, which makes very rich, dark soil for our garden. (…and I’ve always been politically conservative…)

Sandy In Limousin

I don’t have that extreme approach, but flattening cardboard boxes, plastic bottles and aluminium cans and anything else crushable makes trips to the recycling point less frequent and thereby saves me the cost of the fuel in making the diversion when out on other business.

Hocus Locus

I’ve lived in the financial doghouse for 10 years now, old enough to be edged out of an IT career yet too young to collect any money I’ve paid into the system. Paper labels are removed from tin cans so I can have a ‘surprise meal’ every day, though it sometimes turns up beets. Cranberry sauce is particularly troublesome, being the thing people overstock for the holidays and donate for your pantry because they know that bit of rust won’t last ’till next Christmas. There is also a great deal of correspondence from an expensive divorce which is soaked until the tears dry in the sun, a thin crust of salt can be scraped off for seasoning. Monthly bills and junk mail are sprinkled with chicken broth and smacked with a sledgehammer to make dumplings. Old PCs donated by friends are stripped of motherboards and power supplies to leave a sad forest of empty metal cases that I dispose of wastefully because I cannot bear violence against them. The boards and parts get packed carefully into bins that become heavier with every eviction and passing year, and some day I’ll be able to open my retirement business of downgrading modern computers so they run slower and longer support Windows 10. Technological composting is more challenging because moisture brings corrosion and nature’s process works against you.

Sara

The local recycling center pays $1.00 per pound for aluminum cans. I have two cats. The cat food cans and lids are aluminum. If I toss those, I’m throwing away money.
Also, since there is a recycling center that recycles paper, I bag up the newspapers separately before I put them in to the trash. Plastics? Flatten the milk jugs to take up less room in the trash. That stuff can all be recycled by the trash people. And I keep glass jars for storing things like dry beans and rice.
What was the issue again?

MarkW

I wouldn’t be surprised to find that you used more electricity cutting off the bottom of the can, than recycling the can saved.

Jeff Alberts

Whenever I take my crushed aluminum cans to the recycle place, the very large dumpster for cans is FULL of uncrushed cans. It literally seems like I’m the only one who crushes. I really don’t get it. These people must either go to the dump every few days, or they have containers full of cans all over the house. I only have to take my cans every couple of months.

Burks A Smith

In my town, Saint Petersburg FL, we have municipal recycling. Trash and yard waste goes into to the black bin to the dump, and recyclables (glass,metal,and paper) go into the blue bin to the recycling facility. Soaking off labels is a waste of time and money, as the metal and glass ends up in a furnace anyway.

Menicholas

Ditto here in Fort Myers…the county gives everyone two large plastic containers, the one for trash is120 gallons and the one for recyclables is 80 gallons.
But my recycling one has four or five times more weight in it every single week.
Almost everything is recyclable.
Used motors, copper and brass, stainless steel items…these get saved until i have several tons and metal is at a good price…copper price is most important, then call around to negotiate the best price and take it to a scrap yard.
Aluminum cans are not worth the trouble…31 cans per pound and worth 50 cents. Hardly pay for the gas and hassle of storing them.
Steel is $130 per ton, if you have at least five tons you can get that price, otherwise not. Maybe 10 cents a pound, $10 a hundred weight.
You need a large amount and you can get top dollar, but even then you need to negotiate, by first letting them know you know the actual price they can get.
They have to make money, so don’t expect wholesale scrap prices…90% at best. They do a volume business, and have to pay people to weigh and pay and bundle and load.
https://www.scrapmonster.com/north-american-scrap-prices

TRM

Sort of like Jim Steele vs Al Gore. We all know who has had the most positive impact on the environment and the name doesn’t rhyme with bore 🙂

nn

Conservation of principles.

J Mac

+ 5 Self Respect Grins!

That’s quietly funny.

J Mac

Whoo Boy – this will have Kristi in a snit, headed for yet another a self righteous huff!

Boy? BOY??
You need a lesson on toxic masculinity.

Felix

All the fetus murders are committed by women, aided and abetted by medical professionals.

J Mac

Max,
They will just have to learn to embrace my ‘frequency slice’ of the full spectrum that is ‘diversity’.
“I think. Therefor I am… skeptical.”

Felix

The US has about 16,000 homicides per year vs. some 900,000 abortions of fetuses. It’s not even close, even if limiting it to viable fetuses.

Think of how upside down they are, how poisoned their worldview:
They claim it’s a woman’s right to choose yet in the same breath call the unborn human a parasite. So which is it? Is it a parasite feeding off a host which would make it not her body, or is it a human living within it’s mother? How dare they use such a weak argument that it is her body. Nonsense. That is just another satanic excuse to murder (oh by the way I’m not religious; you don’t need religion to have morals)
These satanic beings are all about rights and opportunity, yet they strip the rights of a creature that has had no chance, no opportunity while protecting those who had opportunity but wasted it with murder, rape, and theft. The real kicker is how they expect us to pay for their twisted, satanic world view.
Just to be clear. They are satanic. Mark Passio discussed this worldview in depth of any one is confused on the specifics of my use of the word, and I think he’s nailed it’s true meaning
I still have difficulty reconciling my watermelon tendencies in my 20’s. To think I was so unlearned and ignorant to believe I had it all figured out. It’s sick.

Pop Piasa

Kutztown has an “n” missing in it from my observation here.

Leo Smith

If all the people who oppose abortion and birth control were legally required to adopt and foster all the children they would save from presumed oblivion, the problem would go away I think.
Socialist and/or religious moral outrage is never about taking personal responsibility for one’s actions, is it?

F. Leghorn

Ask my adopted son what he thinks.

Rich Lambert

Adoption is an expensive, time and emotion consuming endeavor that thousands of couples do each year. If they are fortunate, they find and are allowed to adopt. Yes, I oppose abortion.

MarkW

Interesting how the person demanding that other people take responsibility for his mistakes whines about other people not taking responsibility.

drednicolson

Abortions are never about that either. Almost always it’s an escape from the responsibility.

I would argue that most religious outrage is directly due to people not taking personal responsibility for their actions. (and I use the term outrage generously because it typically isn’t outrage)
Abortion? It’s all about people not wanting to take responsibility for their own actions, or rather, wanting an easy out to absolve themselves of said responsibility of raising a child.

Pop Piasa

Leo, 35 years ago, my wife was told she would never conceive due to post-surgical scar tissue binding her fallopian tubes from sweeping her ovaries at ovulation. We naturally decided to get on the Children’s Home and Aid Society adoption list here in Illinois. We were the next folks to be placed with a baby when my wife became pregnant, and after calling our ‘counselor’ with news that we had conceived was informed that we would now be placed at the bottom of the list, pending the re-submission of several thousand dollars in application fees we had already paid. needless to say, we ended up raising only one child.
Hope things like that work better in your locale than mine.
Cheers

John Endicott

Leo, since “taking personal responsibility” seems to be your excuse du jour for defending the murder of innocent human beings, where is your demands for “taking personal responsibility” on the part of the ones making the babies that you would so happily see dead?

observa

Even biz has learned when you’re in trouble grab for climate change to tug at the heart strings, which is usually code for more taxpayer largesse-
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/spanish-company-building-sydneys-disastrous-light-rail-is-slammed-for-liam-hemsworth-led-celebrity-ads-for-investing-in-the-planet/ar-AAwQ3bL
Privatise the gains but if that’s going pear shaped see if climate change can help socialise your losses.

Pop Piasa

There’s a bumper sticker deluxe-
PRIVATISE GAINS
SOCIALIZE LOSS
BE PROGRESSIVE

J.H.

Pfft. I’m a AGW hypothesis skeptic and I don’t “recycle”.
I refuse to do unpaid recycling work for my local council. Mostly its a scam, or at best, an inefficient sham.
I am a champion of disposable plastic shopping bags and get my store assistant to double bag anything heavy or glass, I use them as bin liners and in a multitude of other uses, I expect the cost of plastic bags to be imputed within the packaging costs of their grocery business. Plastic bags Rock!
I wouldn’t use Public bus transport if you paid me. I refuse to walk if I can drive and I quite often like driving around for absolutely no purpose at all other than the act of driving and sightseeing. Cars are freedom machines.
…. and if anything has “Eco” printed on it in any shape or form, I won’t buy it.
I don’t do ecofascism at all. I won’t excuse it, comply with it or fund it. Stuff them…. No really. Stuff them.

Steve Case

…. and if anything has “Eco” printed on it in any shape or form, I won’t buy it.
First chuckle of the day (-:
But you know, years ago I wouldn’t buy it if it wasn’t marked “Made in USA” but that can’t really be don’t any more, and avoiding the eco B.S. is getting harder and harder to do.
Organic foods is another one. I think the producers have figured out a way to charge higher prices for the 2nd quality stuff they have always sorted out of their top grades.

drednicolson

Like the blemished apples that would previously have gone straight to the grinder for applesauce.

Allencic

I drove past a sign the other day with huge letters advertising “ORGANIC COFFEE”. I wonder if I can find a shop that sells “INORGANIC COFFEE?”

MarkW

I can top that, I saw an box of sugar that was prominently marked, gluten free.

I can top that. I saw a commercial for carbon-free sugar. It tastes a bit like oxygen and hydrogen.

“…. and if anything has “Eco” printed on it in any shape or form, I won’t buy it.”
Concur. All the ‘eco’ stuff I’ve ever had the mispleasure of using has been ineffective and over priced. Same goes for ‘organic’ which is no guarantee of quality.

Pop Piasa

Best way to buy fresh food is straight from the producers. Here in “farmland USA” that is still possible if you have the right connections. It does, however, get harder to do as your suppliers sell out to corporate interests.
I see the local and regional agricultural networks attriting, as inheritors of land sell for liquidity and, as the private tracts are assimilated into corporate holdings, the farm community loses its economic edge.

John Hardy

I drive an electric vehicle and we have solar on the roof of the house, but I am a total AGW sceptic. I am angered by a moral code that puts loving the earth ahead of loving your (global) neighbour. At an ethical level I see our responsibility as not being wasteful with our grandchildren’s lubricants and aviation fuel by running cars on petrol (gas); and I would rather not generate power by fission of U235 because transforming inert substances into dangerous ones seems to me to be risky given our human propensity to take cheap and risky short cuts

Dodgy Geezer

….At an ethical level I see our responsibility as not being wasteful with our grandchildren’s lubricants and aviation fuel by running cars on petrol..
This is such a common mistake that I am getting tired of correcting people about it. What makes you think that our grandchildren will use lubricants and aviation fuel?
You are committing the fallacy of assuming that there will be no progress in the future and that our grandchildren will be condemned to use 100-year-old technology for ever. Why would you think this? Would you have campaigned for Victorians to stop using smelling salts on the grounds that their grandchildren (us) would have nothing to revive up from an attack of the vapours when spirit of hartshorn was all used up?.

John Hardy

Dodgy Geezer – you may be right (if a trifle patronising) but aircraft have used petroleum based fuel for the last 115 years and there is no other power source in sight capable of getting a fully loaded 400 seater aircraft from London to Los Angeles

MarkW

I’m confident that in the 4 or 5 centuries that it will take us to run out of oil, we will be able to find something else.

Menicholas

“Would you have campaigned for Victorians to stop using smelling salts on the grounds that their grandchildren (us) would have nothing to revive up from an attack of the vapours when spirit of hartshorn was all used up?.”
Heavens to Betsy!
Such language!
Where is my fainting couch?!
*looks over shoulder before fainting to make sure*

MarkW

Fossil fuels are currently the most economical source of hydrocarbons, but not the only one.

Peta of Newark

A re-run of a re-run of a re-run.. like British TV and why my TV got recycled nearly 16 years ago.
Even The Grauniad was concerned – 7 years ago
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/blog/2011/feb/22/rebound-effect-climate-change
Otherwise, a manifestation of Jevon’s Paradox.
It’s been known about for a very long time.
So why is it news to Hall et al?
(That was a serious question actually)

Dodgy Geezer

PLEASE!!!!! …..; Can we have real science at WUWT?
…however, they were also “most likely TO REPORT engaging in individual-level pro-environmental behaviours” (emphasis added)…
If I were a Climate Change Believer, I would be interpreting this as ” Not only do D*n**rs refuse to believe in settled science, but they also lie about their behaviour…”

Michael 2

“Can we have real science at WUWT?”
As soon as you provide it. That goes for anyone, I suppose, that happens to have a bit of science to share.

Sara

Empirical observation has led me to believe that it is a high probability that we’re going into a cold period. It may be brief or may be long, but it will make the ski bums happy, won’t it?
At the same time, if I could figure out the probability of any CAGWer realizing that the proposed prolonged cold period WILL mean the end of summer clothes (they hate that, you know), the happier I’d be. I’ll wait while the snow flies to see a few CAGWers clonking their way into the restaurant on the highway (not McD’s), moaning and complaining about ‘why hasn’t winter ended?’ and ‘I believed you when you said it was endless warming! Why isn’t it warming up?’.
I will enjoy it. The chicken soup at that restaurant is superb. It would heal a broken arm, that’s how good it is.
We must be patient. Don’t you want an opportunity to point and giggle? I do.

Pop Piasa

Don’t you need a note from the Pope to make your observations ’empirical’ by current standards?
😉

Eu Sei

In order to recycle one needs spend energy, hence defeating the original purpose: Recycling = Bullshit.

drednicolson

Aluminum recycling is about the closest to being economical. Bales of crushed soda cans can be melted down to make more soda cans at about the same energy expenditure as using fresh aluminum from the smelter.
Of course, aluminum is also one of the most common ores on Earth so supply isn’t a concern.

Menicholas

Huge corporations and world market would not exist is this was true.
Trust me…it is a multi-hundred billion dollar business.
Landfills cost money and raise everyone’s taxes when they have to make another one…and it is billions per.
Do you suppose those people are stupid?
You must be going by very old information.
Metals start out as ores inside of a solid mountain or plot of land, in low concentration. They must be dug up and separated from tailing and transported and refined and shipped again…
Most substances used in manufacturing must undergo a similar process.
Having anything in refined form, even if mixed or dirty, saves much energy and money.
https://www.scrapmonster.com/north-american-scrap-prices

Menicholas

All waste must be transported and disposed of.
Tipping fees are now very high, so every pound diverted from the landfill is money saved and less chance of taxes being raised.
Once landfilled though, methane is produced by the stuff decomposing, so the cost is somewhat offset. But constructing a bioreactor is expensive and complex.
Engineers determine whether to landfill, or burn for energy, or sell for scrap, or grind for mulch, or compost for soil, each component of the waste stream, at least in locations where people are trying to keep taxes low.
http://www.leegov.com/solidwaste/recycling

Bill Murphy

Virtue signalling is only part of the issue. In my experience, many rabid greens lack the cognitive and simple math skills to understand ANY of the issues involved. Example: I was once asked by a greenie why I paid the extra purchase price to use efficient LED and tube florescent lighting since I’m not a greenie. I replied with an explanation of MTBF vs unit replacement cost and Lumens/Watt vs $/kWh and how that saved me $hundreds, only to discover that this particular greenie had never heard of MTBF and really did not understand what a Watt is. To this day she continues to buy and use incandescent lights because they are cheaper to buy initially and she believes LED lighting is “artificial” and therefore dangerous. Sheeesh!

Sara

LEDs last longer than the incandescent bulbs, by a long shot. The cost is modest and far outweighs replacing incandescent bulbs every two years. A 40-watt equivalent LED for my bathroom is about $1.25 each, but will last at least 10 years because I don’t leave that light on all day long.
If you do the dollars and cents thing, put a price on clothing or flipflops, it might then sink into her brain that she’s wasting money that could be used on “other”.

Steve Keohane

Hi Sara, Many people don’t know that there are incandescent bulbs rated for 130V that last for many years when run at the 110-115 in our homes. I have had them last over ten years, and they are priced similarly to regular incandescent bulbs. Found out about them in the 80s, been using them ever since.

Sheri

Sara: May not work. My mother bought cheap shoes that made her feet hurt because she could afford many colors and styles. She flat out refused to buy a $50 pair of shoes that would last and fit well (let alone the $200 boots my hubby needs for construction work—would have horrified her). Some people buy for reasons other than what one sees in the math. On the other hand, my brother tried in high school to get her to buy better tennis shoes for him because the cheap ones wore out so fast, but it didn’t matter. She saw only the upfront price. At 16, my brother saw the long term. Sometimes there’s just no using logic or math…..
I like the LED bulbs because they put out so much light. I got rid of the CFLs bulbs I had that I did not like. While incandescents produce heat, sometimes I need that heat, so buy the rough stuff incandescents. You can still get them. The 130V ones Steve mentions would be great! A ten year bulb in my well would be so nice.

MarkW

Steve, running a bulb rated for 130VAC at 115VAC makes them even less efficient. They do last longer.
Back in the 70’s I saw an add for a product that you could put into the bottom of a light socket.
The product was a disc that contained a thermister that when cold had a resistance of a 2 or 3 ohms, but when it got up to operating temperature had a resistance of only a tenth of an ohm or so. The idea was that it would reduce the inrush current when the bulb first turned on, but the hot resistance was low enough that it didn’t reduce efficiency too much.

Menicholas

Steve, and LED bulb uses less than 1/10th of the electricity as a incandescent for the same amount of lumens. IOW, you save a whole lot of money on your electric bill…90% of whatever portion is going to lighting.
Cost of the bulb is tiny compared to that.
But a 130v running at 120 v is not as bright.
Bulbs burn out because tungsten evaporates at a certain well known rate, which is how they know how long a bulb will last.
Using the wrong voltage is overriding the tradeoff calculation which balances energy usage to bulb lifetime. IOW…you are wasting even more money…a lot more (see link)
“During ordinary operation, the tungsten of the filament evaporates; hotter, more-efficient filaments evaporate faster. Because of this, the lifetime of a filament lamp is a trade-off between efficiency and longevity. The trade-off is typically set to provide a lifetime of several hundred to 2,000 hours for lamps used for general illumination.”
LED bulbs last so much longer and use so much less power it is ludicrous to suggest using anything else is anything but a hard headed deliberate waste of money.
It is printed right on the package how much money you will save over the life of that one bulb.
Many times the cost of the bulb itself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescent_light_bulb

Steve Keohane

@ Mark and Mencholas, I believe, from making NMOSIII chips with W circuitry, that the failure of W is electromigration. Since I bought my bulbs 20 years ago, they may be cheaper than today’s. As far as cost of operation, it’s neglectable. I spend about $40/month on electricity, and run a well pump for running water, and an irrigation pump to water gardens.

Sheri

I’m out on this one. No public transportation out this far, no buying “green products” unless they work (I never buy for “green”, only if I find the best product has such a label) and I refuse to use reusable bags. I do recycle whatever the depot takes, though “recycling” here may involve “creative reuse” of the materials, rather than the usually thought of recycling processes.

Jeff Alberts

“I refuse to use reusable bags.”
Why is that?

ResourceGuy

How about a study of fact checkers and their characteristics?

Joel Snider

Well, if these eco-friendly skeptics are anything like me, it’s because they’re realists about what actually is good and bad for then environment, and have found themselves educated on the subject because of genuine concern – and then watching the utter corruption of what they once cared about deeply.
Progressives have a way of driving people away from issues that they would otherwise support.

Menicholas

I just had to buy a new hot water heater when I walked out into my garage and found the old one leaking.
I thought I could fix it again, but this time it was rusted right through.
Just as well, that old thing was wasting money every day.
I did plenty of research, at first thinking I would switch to a gas one. but propane is all we can get here in my area.
Not cheap like nat gas.
The math does not work. It will never be cheap, because it is a by-product of refining and some of it comes from oil production directly…but the supply cannot be ramped up to match demand, so the price fluctuates but it far more per BTU that nat gas, on average.
So it was electric.
Now…on demand under the sink one?
No wasted hot water stranded in the pipe every time you use some hot.
Need one for each place I want hot water…most efficient but too expensive really.
So, central tankless unit, or tanked?
Will I ever get the money back if I buy anything but the cheapest one?
Possibly, but maybe not.
You really have to work out the math on it, taking into account how much hot water you might need at once, the temp of your incoming supply, etc.
I am in the part of the US with the warmest groundwater…nearly 75F, all the time. Take into account several complex tradeoffs, I had to decide I did not want to have to manage simultaneous use if I wanted to do a load of laundry and a load of dishes and then get in the shower.
No way. And the one I would need to do all three at once was huge and expensive…new power supply. No big deal…I am capable of doing any sort of electrical work.
I was about to go this route when I looked into the last option…heatpump water heater with a tank.
Rheem makes a very good one…some early ones were crap. Always read all the reviews.
Got a very efficient 50 gallon one, in stock at local home center.
Very pricey…but…power factor of 3.55
Meaning it is over three and a half times more efficient that a perfectly efficient resistance electric unit. Put another way, you get three calories of heating for one calorie of energy used, since it compresses the air and extracts the heat from it.
Now, my garage here in South Florida is not climate controlled…hot as hades most of the year.
This will make a heat pump VERY efficient.
And the best part…this thing pumps out cold air while it is heating water!
Cools my garage. For free.
The hotter it is outside, the cheaper it is to heat the water.
Gets 67 gallons in the first hour…the highest of any model I looked at in the 50 gallon size.
Rated at $110 a year in power, vs about $400 for one that just heats water with electricity.
Costs more but the lifetime is several multiples of my payback time of about two years.
And it looks nice and is smart home connected and has resistance heater in it for high demand situations.
Saves me money and cools my hot garage.
I spent hours and hours researching and shopping this…far longer than the few hours it took me to go buy it, bring it home and install it myself.
Used that shark bite connector system…love that.
Have to connect a line for the water it is pulling out of the air…no problem…it waters my thirsty coconut I planted outside my garage.
Now…it is right behind a wall from my laundry room. Dryer pumps out hot air. It ought to be very easy to use the waste heat from clothes drying to feed the water heater.
The water heater is fitted with intake and output ducting connections…so you can draw air from wherever it is hot and pump it to where you want to cool and dehumidify.
And that is how a global warming skeptic does it.
Because it saves me money, every dang day!

I recycle jokes.
But as for depleted plutonium, I just dump it in the ocean, or hand it out for Halloween.
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