This article is in response to the personal castigation meted out by Dr.Tim Ball on myself after I wrote an earlier article on a population growth seminar that I had attended.
by Robert McCarter
Hi Tim,
I know that you have been the brunt of much of the blowback from your position on CAGW and I know that you are frustrated, especially from the lack of support of others. I even understand that you are using my once good name as an Everyman, that obsequious clod, ducking his responsibilities and making only a pathetic attempt to hide his neighbor from the Nazis knocking on the door. Perhaps it was my apologies that you found unctuous, for me they were a thin joke on being Canadian.
Please note that my article you have panned is not about my sudden and late awareness of CAGW it is about my awareness of the underlying and overzealous socialism behind it. I have of course read articles with this premise but there is such polarized feeling about socialism in the US that I added that grain of salt. It was seeing it for myself that convinced me of the political not environmental concerns that were driving the issue. I wrote the article suspecting that many others suspend belief when articles focus on leftist politics and I wanted to convey my experience to aid their own decisions about what is true. Not my intent to swing in on a low hanging bough to snatch the fruit from those who planted the tree.
You have had a lot of vitriol poured in your direction and I think that many of the readers at WUWT are grateful for the robust way you have countered. Certainly I have admired your well thought out essays. However I am not sure you should be defecating on the latter day converts, not good form for the many millions of others we have to win to this side. If you excoriate the first kid to hold up his hand, do you get many more questions. We don’t all have that fine PhD nor the tenured position in a university from which to espouse our ideas, a lot of us are just ordinary people that aren’t even listened to by our wives. Most do not have the training to make decisions from observations, most have too much trust in authority.
And I am not that latter day, I first looked at the global warming issue over 20 years ago. Once burned on global cooling, twice treading with caution. I became skeptical when I looked up the composition and overlapping absorbance of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, realizing that water vapor should overwhelm the small amount of CO2 and doubling almost nothing still resulted in almost nothing. I am not a meteorologist or a climate scientist, just a ‘pathetic’ MSc Zoologist and a long time ago at that – but I keep studying. Where I work and live there is not a large scientific community and those that are there seem to be accepting of arguments from authority.
A few years ago I was fortunate to meet Brian Peckford (that one) and he pointed me towards Matt Ridley and then in turn to WUWT and other sites pro and con. For the past three years I have read many (many) articles from global population to windmills trying to suss out the signal from the noise and there is a lot of noise. I read ‘State of Fear’ a poor read as a novel but an excellent read about climate change. I bought several copies and distributed them to friends. I have continued to inundate my friends with articles from WUWT and others. Some friends could care less, others get indignant, lost one friend last week, another holding on by a fishing line. Some accept the non catastrophic story one week then along comes a hurricane and they are back to the beginning. I have about as much influence as I have flatulence but I am still passing gas.
We don’t get many lectures on population growth or climate change in our little town. I attended and I was the only person in a 200 person sycophantic audience who stood to contradict the speaker with factual information. He weaseled away his reply and the audience didn’t seem to note the deception. There is another lecture (Climate Change and Sustainability) this coming Saturday and I plan on attending, even invited some friends. Hey, I’m trying here and if I get dumped with dung how do you think I feel about next time. Are you doing the same thing as your green adversaries and trying to shut me down?
CAGW or the next great scare will not go away until we educate more people and that will not happen if it becomes an exclusive club for the cognoscenti. You have even recognized this need for better education in earlier articles. I agreed with you and as a long time educator I have developed methods to teach students to think. I even contacted you on your website about a year ago and have yet to get a reply.
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Dear Mr. McCarter,
I read most of your very appropriate (taking as given your report of his words) reply to Mr. Ball. Well done (again). You express yourself with honest yet humble candor in an even, fair-minded, tone.
I did not read Mr. Ball’s recent article, for I no longer read any of his articles. He has done much good for the truth about human CO2, but the stench of his ego, regularly expressed in a sour, angry, sometimes-inaccurate (as with you, apparently), tone so permeates all (or nearly all) he writes that I cannot stand to read him. That he has made it known that he is a Christian makes his uncharitable remarks even more abhorrent to me. He brings shame to the name of Jesus Christ. God can take care of His own honor, no doubt, but, it makes me wince, all the same.
So. I am not surprised to see you writing as you did in response to Mr. Ball (given what I have read of his writing in general). And good for you to call him out on it. That was simply the manly, appropriate, honest, thing to do. You do not owe anyone an apology. Your jokes were well within the bounds of good taste and offensive only to a dysfunctionally fragile ego.
Re: many above comments
I want to assure you that I (and no doubt many of us) can see that you have been misunderstood (and, in some cases, intentionally mischaracterized) in your main article and in this reply article. You made a powerful, accurate, point in your first article: socialism is a driving force behind AGW (along with the greed of the enviroprofiteers). You did not conflate politics with science, the AGWists did that long ago. You merely pointed out the fact.
Try not to let the careless (giving them the benefit of the doubt as to their reading comprehension ability) reading of your original article and this reply article get you down. It happens ALL the time to many of WUWT’s finest commenters. Intelligent, well-informed, fine writers are REGULARLY MISUNDERSTOOD — and arrogantly attacked based on that. Just ignore them. They look like FOOLS to those who understand. And, really, those who understand you are the only critics who matter. The rest are the crackling of thorns under the pot. IGNORE THEM.
To close, just focus on the intelligent, thoughtful, responses of those who understood what you wrote (both times).
That Mr. Ball has not responded to you here raises grave doubts as to his courage and integrity (given, he knows what articles are posted on WUWT). If, when he does respond he does not humbly apologize to you for grossly mischaracterizing you (if, indeed, your report of his words is accurate — I’m assuming this), that will confirm the presence, sadly, of a prideful blackness that swirls around inside him choking what would otherwise be a fine mind and heart.
With admiration for your courage, your intelligence, and your humility,
Janice
Thank you Janice. I seem to have a thick skin. If we are to be successful I think we are going to have to tone down the rhetoric and be more inclusive of those with less well formed knowledge about climate change. I think we should also hear some ideas about how we can act at a local level to persuade the many who do not even know there is a debate about CAGW.
You’re welcome, Mr. McCarter. Thank you for taking the time to respond. Much appreciated. Glad you have a thick skin!
I think in your reply to Dr. Ball, you show yourself to be a modern-day Erasmus.
Had to look it up missed that lecture in my renaissance course. I’ll take it as a compliment – thanks. Ah yes the old ‘via media’ approach. I seem to be falling into both gutters.
Janice – Wasn’t October 16 2017 the date of the Andrew Weaver vs Tim Ball hearing? Maybe Dr Ball has been in court all day and unable to respond yet? I look forward to seeing his reply to Robert McCarter, and I hope that he can become more accommodating in this issue. Nevertheless, I hope that Dr Ball prevails in court, as that is surely in everyone’s interest.
In the meantime, Robert McCarter gives good advice: .. be more inclusive of those with less well formed knowledge about climate change.
“Physician, heal thyself”. “Judge not, lest ye be judged”.
Janice,
Perhaps people don’t know what has and is taking place in Canada with the use of the legal system to scare people into silence.
And I hope Mr. McCarter doesn’t end being another victim of legal tactics being used against him for speaking out.
IMHO, the original essay by Tim Ball should not have been published here at all — it is in violation of basic
WUWT policy — there have been far too many personal attacks in the CliSci field — and launching one more does not improve matters. Dr. Ball may rant all his wishes against political ideas, like socialism or capitalism, but not about persons.
Ball’s attack on McCarter is classic CliSci madness — rabid attacks against someone on the same side of the climate divide because their conversion or conviction is not pure enough or sincere or certain or fanatical enough. How many times have we seen this on the CAGW side — attacking fellow “believers” over some small differences in opinion.
Kip you always seem to see over the horizon. Thank you for this comment. One has to appreciate however that Dr. Ball has a mountain of gristle on his plate but I agree the article should have been edited or pulled entirely. I hope that more commentators understand the need to keep our own debates courteous. Without that we will fragment and there are few enough as it is.
OTOH I’m not sure I like to be lumped in with ‘believers’ I prefer ‘skeptic’. Skeptic implies more a mind of my own to follow the evidence I observe. I have observed that there are a lot of commentators too quick to criticize my failings with seemingly limited credentials for themselves,.
Robert ==> Didn’t mean to lump you at all — we don’t have very good vocabulary for defining the bins holding differing opinions on CliSci — I used “believers” in the CAGW-concensus-side of the controversy, as it fit better with my theme of conversion and conviction theme, where attacks are on often on people “on their own side”.
Thanks for posting here, liked your conversion story.
KH – Yes.
Mr. McCarter, I’m sure you can comprehend Dr. Ball’s bitterness considering all that he has endured and is still enduring for the sin of speaking out for truth. Give him a little leeway, he’s earned it.
Being attacked for speaking the truth is not grounds for bitterness. If one does not wish to be attacked, one can stop speaking. Choosing to go on is accepting you will be attacked and vilified.
“Being attacked for speaking the truth is not grounds for bitterness.”… Huh? Since when?
“If one does not wish to be attacked, one can stop speaking.” … Kind’a Reminds me of Martin Niemöller.
“Choosing to go on is accepting you will be attacked and vilified.”… So are you advocating acquiescence, appeasement?
1. For always.
2. Has nothing to do with what I said. It is true if you don’t speak out in defense of the truth, you should not be surprised when you are swallowed up by lies and deception. However, pointing out the emporer has no clothes is going to get one vilified. It’s a choice—silence or stand up and be attacked. I am not addressing the correctness of either action.
3. I’m advocating that only those who are secure and confident enough to be vilified daily take on the task of defeating CAGW. I am not advocating for a specific choice. I’m stating that these are the choices out there. If one speaks the truth on CAGW, attacks and vilification are to be expected. That’s called reality.
1. Bovine Scat.
2. Hmmm… Interesting
3. As long as you subscribe to a natural right of self defense, it’s all good.
1. Cute, but worthless.
3. Self-defense of what? How far? Who decides?
1. Then you deny the ‘human condition’.
3 The person being attacked and vilified.
I hope that I have not seemed bitter – because i’m not. Curious – yes, amused – yes, involved – hopefully.
“Choosing to go on is accepting you will be attacked and vilified.”
And *that* is what makes great people great.
Art I gave him lots of leeway.
We could of course agree that there are different standpoints shaped by personal/family experience. And leave it at that while we pursue the science……
Mr. McCarter,
As an engineer in a small town, I can relate. I saw the problems with CAGW since before there was such a thing as WUWT. I certainly made what impact I could; writing op eds for the local paper, supporting dissenting voices with the appropriate credentials, and the like; but lacking solid credentials in the climate sphere there was only so much I could personally do. Dr. Ball’s ire is certainly justified but unfortunately somewhat misdirected. The blame for this mess rests primarily on the Hansen ilk that abandoned science for ideology blinded advocacy with a cause so pure and noble that no deed, deceit, or crime couldn’t be justified; and secondly on all those climate scientists and meteorologists that remained silent as the flood waters of alarmism rose all around them and the dissenters like Ball, Soon, Spencer, Christie, Curry, and Michaels were being maligned, disparaged, and deplatformed. Yes, I empathize with his anger. I just wish he could see our frustration at not being in a position to be of any more usefulness to him than we were. It reminds me of the Piontman’s post that blamed religious leaders for not seeing through the alarmist BS.
http://www.drroyspencer.com/2014/10/tell-me-why-by-pointman/
Quoting the author – Robert McCarter
Mr. McCarter, me thinks that anyone who claims to have earned a Master of Science Degree in Zoology [aka: a Zoologist] ….. could hardly be considered a “pathetic person” unless the awarded Degree in question was obtained via disingenuous and/or dishonest means.
To wit:
“zoologist [noun]; an expert in or student of the behavior, physiology, classification, and distribution of animals.”
McCarter, anyone who is actually a “learned expert” in the behavior and distribution of animals ….. sure as hell also has to be learned in ….. the climate of the environment in which said animals live and survive.
So, iffen your are a phony Zoologist, …… then “Yes”, …… you are a pathetic example of a Zoologist.
Do I need to scan my diploma?
http://www.phonydiploma.com/
He’s referring to “pathetic” in the area of climatology. No matter how much he knows about the subject a climatologist can dismiss what he says by just saying he’s a zoologist, he can’t possibly understand climate the way we do …
Both the writer and his subject have this in common: they are both nice people.
Didn’t read the Ball article cited, but many previous. For the most part Dr. Ball does not respond in threads to comments about him or his articles, and I think that is his chief sin. Most people would be grateful for an opportunity to “converse” with him.
I appreciate the fact that WUWT readers and writers post articles, both scientific and rhetorical (animal and mineral…), and it’s especially satisfying to see those with the chops to reply to critics and commenters. It’s pretty clear that Dr. Ball has the knowledge and background to deal with all commenters as well as detractors, and one may suppose, based on the length of his posts, he has the time as well. I’ve often wished, both for the sake of WUWT readers, as well as his own reputation, Dr. Ball would make this effort. In particular, I think the conversation might tend to focus his writing.
A “Modern Major General” is a great modeler of information, but until he stops spewing and shows that he can listen as well, he merely comes across as the modern major diletante.
Anything Dr. Ball might post on any internet website might be used against him?
Maybe he can’t respond?
I’m glad to see this post. I too was underwhelmed by your previous posting in which a mea culpa seemed to be offered as sort of a get out of jail free card. This latest post is much more direct and makes more sense.
Two things…it seems you treat socialism as just another option among many which all have more or less equal standing, this may not be true but it’s my take on your words. It is a *cancer* among civilizations, one which merely shifts it’s form and metasticizes again when challenged and falsified…always at the cost of lives and freedoms. This carbon mania is it’s latest stalking horse…
Second, all it takes to know the warming scare is pseudo science is to ignore the PhD’s and media and look *specifically* and *without exception* at the practices and ‘evidence’ being presented, and compare it to where such practices are used in any other hard science. They are not used nor accepted *anywhere*. Models are used as tools, not *evidence*. Code is openly accessible, as is all data…and *adjustments* to it open and documented. Overall theories have comprehensive single works for top to bottom analysis…Principia, General and Special Relativity, etc. Warmism has *none*…just an aggregation of models you aren’t even allowed to examine the code for, and a lot of hand waving claims…very loudly made. The rest of the ‘evidence’ is correlation = causation claims 100% of the time. Neither a coral reef or a warming Timbuktu is evidence of *human* causation. It’s a continual three plates in the air juggling game. I don’t *need* to be a PhD to see the problems here…all I need to have is an understanding of proper method and observe that it is NOT being followed, it has been replaced by media pressure and lots of noise.
That is not science.
There are many anonymous early doubter of the alarm or recent converts who at their level have done and still do their small part into fighting the beast.
As poet Louis Aragon wrote in 1956
“Tout le monde n’est pas Cezanne/ Not everyone is a Cezanne
Nous nous contenterons de peu/ we’ll have to live with our smaller selves
On rit et on pleure comme on peut/ we laugh and cry as we can
Dans cet univers de tisane”/in this lukewarm universe”
Anyone who has been fighting front line against a bureaucracy can sympathize with Tim Ball’s column and even applaud it in context. Anyone who has been a little cog in the fight, early or late, can sympathize with Robert McCarter and empathize with his awakening and his reaction to the scolding he received.
Besides, we all know the bitterness of the academic world during normal times, so imagine in extraordinary times… Simply put: Ferrel can sleep sound in his grave thanks to so many egos.
But this is still beside the point.
In my humble opinion, the worse is yet to come, for all of us; and if anything, the early victory claims after Climategate should serve as a reminder that the Hydra is yet to be fully defeated.
And for that, we’ll need all our strength.
Might we all agree, the exchange between Dr Ball and Mr McCarter aside, that Dr Ball should be wished the very best of British as he deals with the SLAPP today – I believe it is today he faces the Beaks, and I sincerely hope he gives them a bloody nose of the first order.
Dr Ball is facing today the most excoriating of personal events,an examination of motivation, knowledge wisdom and intellect bared to all in a court room under cross examination.
He deserves our thoughts and prayers to survive unscathed.
A lot is at stake, his integrity, his children’s rights to know truth and to be free to discern it, science and the scientific method itself.
Speaking as one with a minimal qualification akin to Robert McCarter, compared to atmospheric physicists,
in the biological sciences, I was at first attracted to the concept that a greenhouse gas would warm the planet.
Only after being dragged along to Al Gore’s first movie by my significant other, did I start reading.
It took the sequential failures of the climate predictions, particularly the test of the null hypotheses via the pause, natural vs anthropogenic, to clinch my position.
It took the pause length to make up my mind finally.
The hot spot failure was just icing on the cake.
Plimer’s book was a walk through geology, an area unknown to me.The paleo argument rings true.
Zoologists and vets learn in statistics about null hypotheses and the singular importance of accurate record taking, precise measurement and clear declarations about the purpose of experiment BEFORE the experiment is done, to keep themselves honest.
So it takes our type of scientists a long time to work things out.
For me, working out that CO2 absorption of IR was swamped by water vapour did not automatically mean that the planet may not warm up, particularly if more water vapour was in the atmosphere, the ultimate heat trapping gas.
When I came in from the cold, no one noticed.
So I was not rejected.
Dr Ball has ‘fought the good fight’.
He has earned my respect.
Even if it were slow coming.
“Only after being dragged along to Al Gore’s first movie by my significant other, did I start reading.”
I took significant mother… a self-proclaimed alarmist, God love her, who, appropriately, snored through the whole thing.
I take your point about Tim Ball. Whatever this “trial” amounts to, he deserves our wishes that it be over speedily.
Amen to that.
Robert McCarter’s reply to Dr. Ball’s criticism rings hollow. It sounds dis-ingenuous. He has a long list of excuses for being late to understand the issue, and a short list of what he has done to “educate” his friends and colleagues, which makes me skeptical of his true motives. Sounds more like he sees an opportunity to jump off a sinking ship and save himself, hence his reference to the band playing on the sinking Titanic, was trying to “lighten the mood”. No, thats not what they were doing. Too many commenting here are to quick to criticize a long-time, effective and battle-weary Dr. Ball for his assessment of Robert McCarter, and too quick to embrace McCarter.
I agree but, lewispbuckingham October 16, 2017 at 1:23 pm also has a point.
Holly perhaps you did not understand – I have been skeptical of the global warming scare for 20+ years and those are not excuses they are information about how one ‘pathetic’, to use Dr.Bell’s descriptor, person in a community with <1% climate skeptics tries to influence others. I have not jumped from a ship I was never on – this is your invention. Please read more carefully and try some action yourself before you criticize.
Wow, that’s one brainwashed community! I doubt a cult of Scientologists or Moonies has that much consensus.
What Dr. Ball said about the wolves jumping ship and putting on their sheep’s clothing back on, I’m sure it is and will happen as Ma’ Gaia refuses to cooperate with the CAGW hypothesis and the economic reality of politics and policies based on it begin to hit the “everyman”‘s wallet.
But many are genuinely waking up.
Just as Anthony, Dr.Curry and many others opened their eyes when it was less convenient to do so. (I would include Dr. Ball but I don’t know if he ever accepted what the likes of Hansen said.
I thought it … unfortunate (for lack of a better word) … that he put Robert McCarter as an example of the “wolves” rather than the “waking up”.
Robert McCarter’s reply was very understanding of what Dr Ball has been through.
I give Dr Ball a pass.
Sound’s like Robert McCarter has also? Or is at least willing too?
Good post Robert and I agree that we should not be, “defecating on the latter day converts.”
However, I also empathise and sympathise with Tim. He has been to hell and (hopefully) back. He is a prime example of the “Serengeti Strategy” promulgated by, and practiced by, Michael Mann. I hope that he wins the case.
IMO we should welcome former supporters of the AGW hypothesis – they could be our best weapon in proving that the science is not settled and moving to a more rational consideration of climate change.
“IMO we should welcome former supporters of the AGW hypothesis… ”
I agree but, beware the poison pill.
Surely it’s better late than never.
Not to some people, it seems.
“What he doesn’t know is that the three Strategic Lawsuits against Public Participation (SLAPP) I received were not only to silence me but also to have a much wider chilling effect against anyone else who dared to speak out. It was very effective because of the silence of so many who didn’t want to know.” ~Tim Ball
I am so sorry Dr. Ball is going through this.
I also think that we had a very close call in which the treaties in Beijing and Paris nearly shut down the agriculture and transportation and manufacturing of the USA. Think of that, a treaty dictating and destroying our nation. People who do not see that as a problem are now the problem. And the shifting of arguments (replacing CO2 with NO2 in multi-billion dollar settlements) has already begun.
But at the same time, I hope much conversation ensues and Robert McCarter continues to do all he can in his sphere to pull back Canada from legislative destruction. All hands on deck.
First, I thought, a decent reply to the post by Dr Ball. It does resolve from where Robert McCarter was looking.
Second, re Socialism and AGW. I don’t see Socialism as the driver for AGW and I don’t think the people behind it see AGW as anything more than yet another tool in removing rights and responsibilities from the People and focussing them back into a central oligarchy.
And they want it to be world wide.
From the diaspora of Islam into once civilised countries to the demand to hand control over climate to liars and cheats, there seems to me to be a drive to destroy the West.
I think the more controlled countries are seen as easier to assert control over at a future date, or perhaps their tight stranglehold over the People is already in the hands of the ‘elite’? But from the propaganda and campaign to enforce public education in the west to the subsuming of Unions into just another political entity, the direction of freedom seems now to be way back at the crossroads we passed back when The Fed was created and the Americans became ‘owned’ by the central banks.
What we’re seeing is NOT Socialism, that’s just a new dress the ‘owners’ are wearing to achieve their goals. The Georgia Guidestones show us what the plans are and the ever-more-restrictive Acts and Laws removing our freedom and rights are the game plan.
Socialism does work, albeit maybe not in anything that looks like modern USA. Socialism takes a People who see that they contribute to a society that contributes back to them. I think Americans have become too programmed into the ME FIRST culture by movies and rhetoric about freedom.
Think how many disaster movies out of the States have everything devolve into a dog-eat-dog battle for survival – and yet that is NOT how we got started on the path to civilisation. Caral in South America is testament to that – they did NOT form their civilisation out of fear but out of cooperation and trade.
So when Americans look at Socialism they do not see Denmark or Norway, they see Nazi Germany and other fascist states.
And yet the Church of AGW is bringing exactly the same sort of controls to the world as those fascists tried. We are not allowed to speak our minds about climate and political correctness is preventing us from commenting more generally about what is being done to us.
We have thousands or even millions of our people living rough on the streets but the main concern is whether we call someone by the correct invented gender pronoun. We have bills being passed to prevent us protesting what is done to our land and our health but the ones being publicly displayed are about letting people with penises into the Ladies toilets.
AGW is NOT socialism, or at least not actual socialism. It is just another way for the super rich, the 0.01% of the world, to funnel our cash and resources into their hands and to reduce the population to manageable levels.
Energy poverty will reduce our numbers, particularly with the Sun going quiet and the desperate need for food and heating that is coming. Zharkova with the ‘heartbeat of the Sun’ is not the only warning voice out there that solar cycle 25 & SC26 are going to be almost non-existent and while it’s only correlation so far, the last time we saw anything similar, hundreds of thousands died of cold and starvation.
And we have MILLIONS now living where they had thousands!
/rant 😀
CAGW is not a driver of Socialism. The science has been corrupted and is being used as tool by Socialists. It’s not being used to focus people on a central oligarchy but on forming a new aristocracy. It’s being used as a tool for globalization. It is being used as a tool to destroy western civilization as it currently exists.
Socialism doesn’t work. Never has, never will. Laissez Faire Capitalism doesn’t work either, for different reasons, although it’s worlds better than Socialism. Thinking that Americans are programmed my movies and entertainment to adhere to an individualistic culture is absurd. Entertainment is a reflection, grossly distorted, of the society that creates it. The feedback is miniscule, at best.
I think when Americans look at Socialism, they see the USSR and the PRC. I think Americans don’t realize the socialist aspects of Nazi Germany or Italy. Although, they’re beginning to learn due to the antics of Anti-Fa and similar groups. The practical differences between Fascism and Communism are just about nil for the individual. The primary difference is on the national scale. Fascists are nationalist, Communists are globalist.
Robert McCarter, glad to have you on-board.
“Perhaps it was my apologies that you found unctuous, for me they were a thin joke on being Canadian.”
Oh now we get it (:
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/870/172/1b3.jpg
http://canada.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/1303/when-canadians-get-ugly-weather-protest-canada-demotivational-posters-1364067786.png
I thought Robert’s original article was clear enough with respect to his sceptical views on AGW and I was quite surprised at Dr Ball’s response. The original article was about realising that science and the AGW theory is just a tool being used for political ends and that this is why it’s difficult to win AGW arguments based on scientific evidence. I have just re-read the original article and I think it’s clear many readers got the wrong end of the stick.
Thanks Ryal – I thought it was clear but seems one has to be very careful when poking a stick at Marxism. I suspect that once the M word appears reason disappears.
Weak reply, try again…
Weaker reply … I tried again.
Robert McCarter,
I think ya done good . . and it’s not the first time I’ve felt too many who hang around here lack strategic sense at times. You offer a plausible circumstance many might find themselves in now, as the possibility of actual fraud grows almost mundane to conceive of, it seems to me . . Best to make it seem as “forgivable” as one can at this point, to make the sort of transition you present here, I say . . This fight ain’t over, and until it is, I for one welcome your participation, sir ; )
Thank you John
I have a tremendous respect for Tim ball for his defence of reason, and the quality of his work, and a huge disgust at his litigious detractors. May he be successful in Court. I do however fail to see the grounds for criticism of Robert McCarter. I am only too keen myself to air my views on AGW earning at worst the hatred or at best the humoring of the madman, the rolling eyes of boredom from my immediate family and friends 2 siblings will no longer talk to me . The general hostility surprised and disappointed me. However I have not, despite a 20 year skepticism based on my scientific career as a physics graduate employed as an exploration geophysicist really done much in an organised way to fight fore the cause. If Bob is guilty, so also am I. Maybe we should organise collectively a propaganda front to counter the other mob
Robert McCarter, thank you for your posts and welcome to the skeptic community. Unfortunately, and sadly, Tim Ball has become part of the problem.
Mark Silbert October 17,2017 at 5:29am
And , just how, pray tell, is Dr. Ball “part of the problem” after taking the brunt of abuse for all of you? For 4 decades. You do not even understand what “the problem” is, never mind Dr. Ball’s roll in all of this ( a ringside seat of the three ring climate science circus, by the way ).
McCarter’s just mad because Dr. Ball busted him.
Dr. McCarter,
You admit you knew the science was bogus for twenty years.
Watched as Gavin Schmidt walked away from a debate with Dr. Roy Spencer.
Watched as Al Gore released two movies and you were silent.
Watched as Obama proclaimed this is the most important issue facing the world today.
You don’t even understand the damage you let happen on your watch, do you?
Wow. Just wow.
I hope you can appreciate what it might be like for Dr.Ball on that witness stand.
Think on that for a moment.
.
David – Wow – just wow I didn’t even know I had the watch! I hope you have those orders in writing.
Have you actually read any of the articles? It would appear not. Few have a front row seat in this circus. Note that I am not ‘mad’ because [your father] ‘busted me’ I was only relating my own observation from my back row seat in a small Canadian town (pop <10000). I was not and am not trying to steal anyone's thunder. It was [your dad] misconstruing who I am and what I am that I am sorry to say has undermined his reputation and shaken my long term respect for him. I have no reputation to lose and have no need to gain more. How can you possibly presume that I could be well enough informed or involved or aware. Twenty years ago the internet was just getting booted, for the next 20 years CBC, BBC and major newspapers have been lying by omission, search engines suppress searches on 'denier' websites. Your misunderstanding of the involvement of the general public leaves me (fill in word here).
Go back and read the articles – carefully and realize that I am no PhD rocket scientist. When egos become greater than causes then we are indeed lost.
David, I’ve just been praying for your Dad. I don’t know if he was the first that Mann sued but he’s certainly been under legal fire the longest that I know of without bowing.
He deserves support and respect.
If your Dad spoke out of turn regarding Robert McCarter, considering what faced him the day or days before yet another court appearance, he deserves a pass.
He’s human.
If your Dad did not speak out of turn regarding Robert McCarter … time will tell.
PS I hope they do a few movies about Harold Shea … as long as it’s not Disney. 😎
“I have about as much influence as I have flatulence but I am still passing gas.”
You have an excellent writing style! Entertain and inform with passion.
Thank you Michael too.