I Love Neil deGrasse Tyson, but He is Wrong on Climate

My response to Neil deGrasse Tyson about denial of science.

Guest essay by Donna Hedley

I love Neil deGrasse Tyson. He has done so much to make science interesting and understandable. He is wise and humble. His love for science is infectious. However, I think he is wrong when he talks about the denial of science, especially when it is about climate change.

I agree with him when he says we need to become scientifically literate and that is something I have endeavoured to do over the last few years. I have come to be better understanding of what science is, and how it works. I am not a scientist, but I do have a brain and believe I have come to some intelligent conclusions. Not only that, I am open minded enough to listen to alternative ideas. I want to know the truth, even if it means that someday, someone can prove the CO2 is a problem. But as of today, I am not convinced.

I started this journey because I wanted to prove to someone that Global Warming was real. Yes, there was a time that I believed in it.

After all, the scientists were saying so, and who was I to disagree? What I found out was there are many knowledgeable people who questioned the hypotheses. I also found out that in the science world, this is what is supposed to happen. People are not supposed to be put down because they had different ideas. If their ideas were unsound, science will figure it out in the end, if given the chance to do so.

I don’t claim to know or understand everything, but what I learned was enough to make me question the status quo on the subject Anthropological Catastrophic Climate Change (ACCC). I also learned that questioning is good. If you don’t ask questions, you will not learn anything thing.

Neil talks about people denying science. I would like him to explain to me, just who is denying science and what they are denying about science. From my studies, they don’t deny that the climate is changing, that it is a bit warmer then is was 100 years ago, or that mankind has had something to do with it. They just question by how much and if it is a real problem, and what percent of it is our fault. This is a question that even Bill Nye could not answer.

What about real denial, like the denial of medieval warm period, which happened approximately between 1000 to 1250 when temperatures were higher then today, and people prospered because of longer growing seasons, and Vikings lived on Greenland (which they can’t today because it just too cold)? What about the denial of the little ice age that lasted from about 1300 to 1870, when plagues and famine were rampant, and people died by the millions? Could it be that the warming we have been experiencing over the last 100 years might have been the planet still coming out of the ice age? Science is all about considering all angles of a topic, all the possibilities.

Neil talks about how someone makes a premise or hypothesis and then others look at it, and do experiments to confirm validity. Scientists are supposed to do their utmost to disprove a theory. If it can’t be disproven, then it should be considered as possibility true. But even when that happens, new evidence can materialize that could change the picture yet again. That is why science is never settled.

How can one do real world experiments when it needs to be done on the real world — that is, the entire planet. Consider how big the planet is. How will it ever to fit in a lab? And while CO2 has been proven to cause some warming, what experiment can prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that when you factor in all of the variables involved in influencing the climate, such as clouds, the sun, wind, and the ocean — to name only a few — that CO2 is the main reason for the warming? How can we be sure that we even know of all the variables that affect the climate? Can we be sure that there are no other variables involved that we are not even aware of yet? You know, the stuff that we don’t know that we don’t know. All I suggest is that there are too many variables, to many unanswered questions to say that we know enough about why the world is warming and what it really means, and therefore cannot be pinned totally on CO2 as the starting point. If it cannot be proven, then any of the additional arguments are irrelevant.

So how can we trust the the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) who’s sole purpose is to prove that CO2 is the only cause of ACCC and does not even consider looking at other possible causes? Why does the IPCC not even consider the 100s of papers – peer reviewed and published in excellent journals — which do not support ACCC? Is it because these papers might contradict their premise and purpose which is to prove that CO2 is the cause?

Since whole world experiments are somewhat impossible, scientists rely on models that give projections. But if they cannot fully understand all of the possible factors that effect climate, how can we rely on models. They give some ideas of what might happen, but they can’t really tell what will happen for sure. They are only guesses, possibilities, not guarantees. For example, over the past 30 years, many of the climate models predicted that snow would be a thing of the past by now. Well, here in Ottawa, we had snow this winter, and lots of it. It has been a long cold winter. This neither proves or disproves ACCC, but points to the fact that the models are not reliable.

There are many scientists that do not support the status quo on ACCC. They do research which presents alternative views. They get their papers reviewed and published. The problem is, their voices and views are just not heard, or, if we do hear about them, they are presented as villains and funded by big oil, which is usually not the case. They are accused of denying science. Yet, they are doing exactly what Neil says scientists should do. Why are their efforts any less relevant just because they don’t go along with the status quo?

Doesn’t that sound a little Orwellian, the idea that people with a different point of view are presented as somehow – evil? Take for instance the story of Dr. Judith Curry. While Neil is an intelligent and established scientist in his own right, he is not an actual climate scientist, like Dr. Curry. She has impeccable credentials, including 186 published journal articles and two books. She went along with the status quo on ACCC, believing it to be real and trusting in what she was being told about it. Until she started to really look at the details which made her change her mind.

Bam, she is now an oil funded climate denier. Funny how one minute she has no connections with big oil, and the next minute she is in their pay. I wonder how that happens? How ridiculous, and scary – and easy it is to be trashed for not going with the status quo. Here is what she had to say about why she changed her mind when she spoke at a recent senate hearing.

“Prior to 2010, I felt that supporting the IPCC consensus on human-caused climate change was the responsible thing to do. That all changed for me in November 2009, following the leaked Climategate emails, that illustrated the sausage making and even bullying that went into building the consensus.I came to the growing realization that I had fallen into the trap of groupthink in supporting the IPCC consensus. I began making an independent assessment of topics in climate science that had the most relevance to policy. I concluded that the high confidence of the IPCC’s conclusions was not justified, and that there were substantial uncertainties in our understanding of how the climate system works. I realized that the premature consensus on human-caused climate change was harming scientific progress because of the questions that don’t get asked and the investigations that aren’t made. We therefore lack the kinds of information to more broadly understand climate variability and societal vulnerabilities.As a result of my analyses that challenge the IPCC consensus, I have been publicly called a serial climate disinformer, anti-science, and a denier by a prominent climate scientist. I’ve been publicly called a denier by a U.S. Senator. My motives have been questioned by a U.S. Congressman in a letter sent to the President of Georgia Tech.”

https://judithcurry.com/2017/03/29/house-science-committee-hearing/

She is a scientist with distinction and integrity. But when she looked at the evidence and decided that things were not what they seemed, she instantly became a villain. How can this behaviour be justified in the name of science?

When the models of the past 30 years don’t work, when the best they can come up with to prove CO2 causes catastrophic global warming is using terms like “likely”, when top scientist, who exemplifies distinction and integrity, is accused of being funded by big oil when they are not, when there are many scientists have peer reviewed papers that have alternative findings, you kind of have to pause and consider, maybe the “deniers” have a point.

You don’t have to agree with me – I won’t vilify you if you don’t. My purpose is not necessarily to change your mind, but to present some reasons why you might at least be willing to consider that if someone like Judith Curry could change her mind because she realized that she was not being told the whole truth, maybe you might consider it as well. And maybe, Neil deGrasse Tyson, as awesome as he is, is mistaken.

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William Everett
April 23, 2017 3:15 pm

“It may be enough to eventually effect some things (for better or worse).” But does it? Is it enough to register on the temperature measuring devices in use? What of the apparent pattern to the recorded temperature change in the form of alternating similar or equal length periods of warming and pauses in the warming. I am aware that the CO2 doesn’t go somewhere during the pauses. I was using slight sarcasm as an argument ploy.

JohnKnight
Reply to  William Everett
April 23, 2017 4:50 pm

“Is it enough to register on the temperature measuring devices in use?”
It might be, but we have no way of knowing what the exact temperature would have been at any particular place at any particular time without the extra CO2 from human emissions . . so it’s not possible to know if it is “registering” any additional heat . .
“What of the apparent pattern to the recorded temperature change in the form of alternating similar or equal length periods of warming and pauses in the warming.”
Same problem, we have no way of knowing what temps would have been, since temps are always changing anyway . . the planetary scale system is far too vast and complex to confidently attribute anything to our CO2 emissions . . it’s all about the climate models showing things at this point.
(“I was using slight sarcasm as an argument ploy.”
I thought so, but the question is useful for explaining the situation.)

William Everett
April 23, 2017 3:21 pm

Would it be of value to measure the surface temperature at air temperature measuring sites to determine if changes in surface temperature paralleled changes in air temperature?

JohnKnight
Reply to  William Everett
April 23, 2017 4:53 pm

When they say surface temperature, they mean the air near the surface . .

JohnKnight
Reply to  JohnKnight
April 23, 2017 5:02 pm

. . the actual surface is extremely tricky to measure and to account for heat rising from below and so on . . Some experimenting may have been done along the lines you suggest but I haven’t heard of it.

Chimp
Reply to  JohnKnight
April 23, 2017 5:05 pm

Except for the 71% of the earth which is ocean. In that case, “surface” means below the surface.
GASTA is unscientific GIGO.

William Everett
April 23, 2017 8:09 pm

If the air temperature at the end of a thirty year period is no higher than it was at the beginning of the pause yet CO2 level in the atmosphere increases isn’t that a strong indication that current CO2 levels do not significantly effect the air temperature readings?

JohnKnight
Reply to  William Everett
April 23, 2017 10:17 pm

Significant of course, but inconclusive because again, we can’t know the temps would not have fallen a bit without the “help” of our CO2 contributions.
Thing is, the normal “burden of proof” involved in scientific claims rests squarely on those making the claim that our CO2 emissions will cause global catastrophe, so those who are skeptical are under no obligation to show anything conclusively (which in this case is virtually impossible) . . the alarmists are, and doubly so with the vast economic and “controlled society” implications involved in treating this as a global crisis.

William Everett
April 24, 2017 8:21 am

Perhaps its my science ignorance but the statement “significant of course’ but inconclusive, etc…..” does not make sense to me. I’m also saying its a strong indication not absolute proof.

JohnKnight
Reply to  William Everett
April 24, 2017 12:59 pm

Um, no . . just tricky discussing potential indicators . . in conjunction with detection/measurement/attribution uncertainties and unknowns.

JohnKnight
Reply to  JohnKnight
April 24, 2017 1:22 pm

(I’m used to alarmist arguments that involve talking points like “Warmest decade since records began”, or “Lowest arctic ice levels ever recorded”, and the like, which essentially treat the planetary system as a simple, steady state affair, such that those things are treated as if “indicators” of global warming.)

JohnKnight
Reply to  JohnKnight
April 24, 2017 1:50 pm

PS ~ I prolly ought to have said “anthropocentric global warming” or something, in this crazy linguistic Gordian’s knot realm, wherein heaps of “climate scientist’s” failed “predictions” are shrugged off, because the “climate models” the “climate scientists” base the predictions on produce “projections” . . It’s not a lack of scientific anything, just the nature of trying to discuss anything in the wacky world of . . climastrological triple-talk ; )

rickjohn57
April 24, 2017 9:02 pm

I’m good with acting on, “‘likely”, considering the consequences of inaction.
The downside verses upside calculations make it a sensible decision to aggressively ween ourselves from consuming fossil fuels ahead of actually exausting them. It would make sense even if there was only “a chance” of catastrophic global climate change, however it is “likely”, especially if we do nothing.
Again, it is not the temperature itself but the rapid PACE of change which throws humans and other life on the planet into the chaotic struggle to adapt and survive.

JohnKnight
Reply to  rickjohn57
April 25, 2017 2:37 pm

“I’m good with acting on, “‘likely”, considering the consequences of inaction.”
When the one’s demanding (and those who will oversee) this “weening”, and who prophecy those consequences you consider, claim the science is settled?? What would one expect to see if this was at heart a con, to seize power over the “free world”?
I’d expect just what I’ve seen, rickjohn . . Hurry, hurry, hurry, we must act now . . to spare the most vulnerable . . say the people holding the umpteenth lavish international “conference” to solidify the terms of their own enthronement as our saviors . .
When the rate of warming has been damn near zero for two decades? ???

Dave Fair
Reply to  JohnKnight
April 25, 2017 3:01 pm

And damn near “not a hell-of-a-lot” over a couple hundred years.

Reid Smith
Reply to  JohnKnight
April 26, 2017 11:56 am

i agree with you, John. When the warmists propose a net zero cost increase plan to get rid of hydrocarbon fuels and replace them with wind, thermal, hydro, solar, unobtainium, NOT TO MENTION nuclear, then let us hear their proposal. This is not about global warming, it is about controlling the economies of the first world.

rickjohn57
Reply to  JohnKnight
April 27, 2017 8:10 am

this is what you would “see if this was at heart a con, to seize power over the “free world”?”
The thing that rings false about most conspiracy theories is the degree of competence it attributes to a huge nepharious organized entity to be able to orchestrate a huge, broad scoped, coordinated, secret campaign to accomplish some goal that benefits the organization.
There is no such “secret conspiracy” competence in any large organizational entity, You certainly cannot ascribe such a grand competence to any part or the whole of our government (or any nation’s government).
BTW, I would like to know the source of information for the claim of, decades of zero warming ?

Reply to  rickjohn57
April 27, 2017 9:24 am

People are opportunists, they take their chances. Some circumstances have come together: secularization, the canonization of nature making environmental organisations the new clergy, the over estimation of computer output…..media eager to bring alarming news, scientists seeking status…..

rickjohn57
Reply to  David
May 1, 2017 12:34 pm

People and corporations are opportunists. We make decisions that benefit the self over the degradation of the environment that is shared by all. Our impact on this earth is too great to ignore. We can no longer consider these places endless voids where we can dump our waste — “out back in the woods”, the big lake, the river, the ocean, the atmosphere, and now even near earth orbit. All these are still places we lay waste.
Science is measuring the environmental effects of our waste and correlating those effects directly to our collective health and indirectly to the ecosystems that support us today and have supported humanity’s emergence on this earth. The FDA, EPA, et al, are an extension of that science, dedicated to constraining our individual and corporate tendency toward “taking chances” and choosing profit over staying clean.
Many people like the ideal of leaving a place better than the way you found it. This attitude helps mitigate the effect of those who are less thoughtful resulting in a sustainable environment. A “place” that is just as good for those who use or enjoy it in the future.. It is good social behavior to consider those that will follow us, especially in an ever more crowded world. But when it comes to the individual, survival or greed for profit usually overrides this altruism. Even when aware of doing harm to a shared resource, it seems a small sacrifice for the present need. But it is NOT the individual alone who is diminished. When it comes to corporations, the urge for profit is even greater and the morality of being “green” is even less of a driving force and the waste is industrial strength toxic.
Scientists seek status by doing good science. Doing good science that disproves a widely held/supported theory would gain the MOST status and notoriety. Doing science that jumps on the bandwagon is not a path toward standing out.

Reply to  rickjohn57
May 1, 2017 12:46 pm

We have legal systems to protect our environment. To live means to exploit the earth, there is no other choice. But this should be done in a way nature can be restored afterward. Rich countries protect their nature, poor countries don’t. I agree: progress means less impact on nature and less dependence on land and nature. Consider the enormous progress we made, more people than ever better environment than ever. I walk a lot in Europe’s state parks. Very nice.

Reid Smith
Reply to  David
May 1, 2017 2:05 pm

“To live means to exploit the earth, there is no other choice. But this should be done in a way nature can be restored afterward.” The alarmists would have us go back to a primitive lifestyle. Not going to happen. As to a restorable afterward: In thermo, this is called a “reversible process.” They don’t happen — can you get a melted ice cube to refreeze itself? Not unless you put it back in a freezer. The key may be to minimize the irreversible impacts on the environment. And mitigate them through technology.

Reply to  Reid Smith
May 1, 2017 2:17 pm

Look at the (lithium…) mines or tar sands. After exploiting them soil is returned, trees grow again. OK : for a decade or so it is a mess. But again: there is no choice. Earthquakes change the landscape many times more. A disagree with a culture of guilt.

RickJohn57
Reply to  David
May 3, 2017 9:18 pm

Cleaning up the environment has been a constant, on-going struggle. The EPA is at the forefront of that struggle, enforcing our environmental laws with regulations and enforcement. Since it is not explicit in our Constitution the EPA depends on laws enacted by the U.S. Congress to protect the environment. The EPA is very busy discovering environmental pollution affecting our health. The EPA is also busy enforcing remediations by corporations and individuals for discovered pollution events.
Still I wouldn’t say, “better environment than ever”. I get your point but there are too many ponds with signs all around warning fishermen not to eat the fish(for example). We have pushed relatively clean environments pretty far back away from populated areas. There are still too many warnings like eating too many weekly meals of deep ocean fish.
In some places the environment is better than ever, since time when the places were first populated. I don’t know if this is the case overall. Our personal experience is not a good barometer. We need good science to determine which human behaviors are ultimately sustainable. I know we are still doing many unsustainable things to our environment and we need to be trending toward sustainable as we continue to increase our impact on this earth.

Reply to  RickJohn57
May 4, 2017 1:20 am

I agree. Environmental organisations have done good work and gained overal respect. However they have left the path of science and became activists somewhere in the eighties. It is very sad to see that they misuse their public trust by raising panic which is their business model. (Greenpeace) When I walk out of the Amsterdam central station (I live 50km north) I notice big letters on a building “Jesus loves you”
The green church denotes people as “cancer of the earth” and welcomes plagues to “save the planet” .

Reply to  JohnKnight
May 2, 2017 12:32 am

English is not my native language. Open cast mining is better?

Aeronomer
May 2, 2017 6:42 am

Tyson is a self-important turd. I can’t stand him.

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