The March Against Science

Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

Well, I wrote about this crazy March For Science idea two months ago, but the story just gets better. Far and away the most insightful comment I’ve read on this goofy idea of marching was from a climate scientist I respect, Dr. Roger Pielke Jr., who said:

The smartest people on the planet want to oppose Trump & the best they can come up with is a march in support of themselves?

Hard to argue with that … but since then there have been two developments.

One was the announcement that the March For Science will be led by none other than Bill Nye the Science Guy. We’ve discussed his wondrous views about science before.

Bill Nye and Partner from DWTS

Of course, this appointment of Bill Nye led to many people pointing and laughing. With all of the distinguished scientists in the country, the idea of picking Bill Nye as the honorary poster boy for the march is hilarious.

But wait, it gets better. In the sadly common Blue-On-Blue violence of identity politics, there’s been a new protest. This protest is not because Bill Nye lacks credibility. Nor is the protest because Bill Nye lacks credentials or cranial horsepower. And the protest is not because Bill Nye lacks support in the scientific community.

Nope.

This protest is because Bill Nye lacks melanin.

Seriously. You can’t possibly make this up. If I were Bill Nye, I’d go straight to the ACLU and get them to file an anti-discrimination lawsuit. What the organizers have done is a criminal offense under the ADA, the Americans with Disabilities Act. It’s clearly against the law to discriminate against the melanin-deficient, that’s just cruel.

It gets better. The protest is not just because Bill Nye lacks melanin. He’s also guilty of being short of another even more important requirement.

Bill Nye lacks that scientific necessity, the vital XX chromosome.

So in the wonderful American non-tradition of everyone getting a Participation Trophy, the March Organizing Committee has added two more “Honorary Co-Poster Children” or some title like that as Co-Leaderpersons of the March. Of course, neither of these new Co-Coordinationizers lacks those vital scientific elements of melanin and XX chromosomes.

Now, please be clear what I’m saying. I’m not dissing the two new Co-Non-Gender-Titled-People in any sense. I’m sure that both of the women named as Honorary Co-Chairpersonages, Dr. Mona Hanna-Attisha, the Iraqi-English pediatrician who exposed the Flint lead contamination, and Dr. Lydia Villa-Komaroff, a Hispanic biologist and businesswoman, are good scientists and well-intentioned people.

I’m just pointing out that this is another in the many pieces of evidence that this is a March For Political Correctness, not a March For Science in any sense. Opportunity wasted. Get ready for impassioned speeches from all the extremely scientific co-ordinatrices.

Prepare for impassioned speeches from a bunch of extremely scientific spokesdudes and spokesmodels on how Trump hates water and air, and how spending $ Trillions with a T to cool the earth by 0.1°C in fifty years is a scientifically brilliant plan supported by 97% of all true moral noble and upstanding humanoids everywhere. Amen.

Oh, and if you disagree, think of the grandchildren, because compassion, and besides you’re just a hater and a scientific troglodyte, because 97%.

I put the over/under of someone passing out white lab coats along the march route at 100%.

March for science? … I don’t think so.

A rainy day here, more rain on the way. The forest is happy. The cat is not happy.

Me, I’m overjoyed, and I can only wish the same for you.

w.

PS—When you comment on someone’s ideas, I request that you please QUOTE THE EXACT WORDS YOU ARE REFERRING TO. That way, we can all understand what you are discussing. I can defend my words. I can’t defend your words about my words.

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297 thoughts on “The March Against Science

  1. Non sensical. Bill would be XY not lacking a Y. He would not have a pair of Xs. The women do of course.

    • Its still not fixed. 4 lines down… Coordinators should end …melanin and double X chromosomes.

      • Speak up for Bill. Doesn’t mentally handicapped count for something in this popularity contest?

      • Bill, if he really wanted to lead the march, had many options open. He could just get billy goat stubborn and sue, claiming reverse discrimination. This would have been highly appropriate, as his name is Bill. In the middle of the difficultly scale, he could snip off his package, cut the testicles off and throw them in the trash, and some new silicone breast implants, a very good total body waxing, a beautiful wig, a good waxing, and he could lead the march as an ugly white woman. On the easy end of the scale, he could just change his name to Loretta Dolezal and claim that he’s a cis/trans/xyz black woman, and no one had any right or authority to say otherwise. All the methods have a downside, of course. The reason Bill Nye wouldn’t want to take the easy, surgery free route, is because Loretta Dolezal the Science Guy doesn’t rhyme.

  2. There was a time when judging someone’s worth by the color of their skin was considered racist.
    I guess that we as a society have finally outgrown such nonsense.

    • It is still racist Mark but here in the twilight zone the shadows change the landscape. Black is the new black and white is just bad taste.

      • It would be funny if a large number of people did not insist it to be true.
        Instead, the “Only white people can be racists” meme is in fact the most racist thing I have ever heard in my entire life.

    • And of course it will be elevated, amplified and celebrated by the main stream meediots.

    • say what you will about political correctness, but the coolest troll the skeptic gang ever pulled was the unabomber billboard and we know what happened there. nothing more pc than a guy with pussy cancer.

      • Hey, man…I would appreciate a trigger warning the next time to microaggress me to such a macro extent.

  3. I’m old enough to remember when young boys were asked what they wanted to be when they grew up, their default response was (steam) Engine Drivers. Now they are more likely to say “Girls”. All thanks to the sort of lefty crap that Willis highlights above.

    • Old’un , you must a bit older then me, First I wanted to be a jet pilot and shortly after it became the “rage” I wanted to be an astronaut, my how times change! ( But a an Engine Driver is cool as hell! :) ).

    • When I used to tell all my schoolmates I wanted to be an engineer when I grew up, they all decided they wanted to drive trains for a living too.

  4. Shouldn’t the march be led by female polar bears? Or a polar bear and a black bear, for melaninic balance. No doubt CACA has negatively impacted black bears as well. Although more berry bushes one must admit is a good thing.

    • As I understand it, polar bears actually have black skin and the hair is not white but pigment free/transparent (with a hollow structure), the “white” light effect is due to a visible light scattering effect of the hollow hair. So a female polar bear hits two protected classes when applying an anthropomorphic PC viewing angle. (Or is that three protected classes when including their threatened species listing?)

      • You are correct as to polar bear skin. The white hairs conduct photons to the absorbent surface.

        Which makes your conclusion correct as well, in the bizarro world of PCism.

      • You’ve given me a great idea! Show up at the March for Science dressed as a cuddly polar bear, but then start biting and mauling people. Truth in advertising.

  5. We have no idea of what Bill Nye’s sexual preference or gender identity is, so he may very well be a representative of those various groupings.

  6. I think the real reason why many people are skeptical about CAGW is because we haven’t seen scientists marching around doing the “Hey Hey. Ho Ho” chant.

    I bet if people see a few Phds chanting “Hey Hey. Ho Ho. Climate skepticism has gotta go” the skeptical holdouts and lukewarmers will instantly turn into true believers. Nothing changes minds like chanting marchers. Bank on it.

  7. Slightly O/T. Colin Kaepernick the former San Francisco 49rs’ QB drew a lot of media attention when he refused to stand for the National Anthem last season. He also pledged $100K a month for ten months back to the community.

    I checked his foundation website to see how the money was being spent, was surprised to see $17.5K went to 350.org to be used for “People’s Climate Mobilization March. Transportation, food, overnight accommodations, and other hard costs”

    http://kaepernick7.com/ck7-january-2017-donations/

      • No, he opted out of a $17 million dollar contract with the 49er’s, though the team also had the option to release him.

        In a way, he has clawed back — his agent has said he won’t be protesting the anthem this year. Of course, because he landed with a team, people are claiming his being black balled, even though RG III and Cutler haven’t been signed any team either.

  8. The new series of Dr Who starts in a week or so.
    The new assistant is not merely a woman (done, repeatedly) or black (done, more than once) or even homosexual (done, J Harkness).
    The new assistant hits the trifecta; black lesbian.
    Of course the soap opera is irrelevant. The science and people matters in science fiction, as in society.
    But it raises an interesting question.
    Where do we go from here?
    Or will there be a reaction?

    • You don’t suppose there is a possibility that Doctor Who’s following companion will be a robot – think Star Wars or Hitchhiker’s Guide – or, fantastically, a person of substantially-enhanced life-experience (‘old’) – or do you?
      The fastest growing section of the population, I understand, is the over 100s.
      Should be scope for selecting an over-80 . . . .
      Needs to be able to climb stairs to evade daleks [unless the flying daleks have purged the others!].

      Auto – defiantly under-70 for a good few years yet!

  9. I’m trying to think of something wittier than “LOL” but it hasn’t popped into my mind.

      • Depends if you like your ‘road apples’ the physical ones or philosophical ones. They both stink but the former are easier to clean up after.

  10. Easily correctable. In the name of DIVERSITY, there should not be one leader, there should be one Steering Committee. That way you can adjust the proportion of chromosomes and of melanin to any value divined by the DNC. And the march will be much more life-like.

  11. Bill Nye channels Jerry Lewis as the Nutty Professor far more than he does Don Herbert (Mr. Wizard)! He even looks like the Lewis Character.

    • I wish my grandkids had a Mr. Wizard like the last one. Fools like Bill Nye are a hazzard to navgation. Something I just thought of that’s not too far OT. I went to Berkeley CA high school 1959 to 1963. They were transitioning from the “old” chemistry to the “new” chemistry wherein you memorized Bohr orbits, etc . I was in the last “old” chemistry class. Also in the class were the kids of three professors at UC Berkeley. Including a very nice young lady whose father was the head of the Chemistry department at UC Berkeley and had a real Nobel prize in Chemistry. Those parents cold have their kids in either the old or the new. They chose old. Maybe they understood just how damaking the new educational fads would prove to be.

  12. If they are going to scream about not have a person of color and a woman leading their march, then someone should point they are missing the all important LGBTQ scientist contingent. Maybe they are worried people would confuse their march with a PRIDE march.

    • Bruce, there’s nothing I enjoy more than the kind of clever banter and genteel informed repartee that is so well exemplified by your penetrating and insightful comment, viz “You’re a fcukwit.”

      I mean, the amount of thought and effort that you put into your words clearly shines through and reveals your true worth to all.

      Best regards,

      w.

      • Thanks, Michael, but you’re cherry picking. For Bruce that was his only comment, that one line.

        On the other hand, I had said:

        I think you are a jerkwagon to toss around such bogus accusations about my honesty without a scrap of evidence to back them up.

        When someone does that, I do my best to hit back twice as hard. I won’t have some random scumball falsely accuse me of deliberate misunderstanding something. Perhaps you let people falsely accuse you without replying, Kip, I don’t know.

        But I don’t, and I don’t respond peacefully to such underhanded accusations.

        Don’t like it?

        Don’t care …

        I care no more now than I did then.

        w.

      • People that live in glass houses……..besides, how do you know that what Bruce posted isn’t the truth?

      • Michael darby April 6, 2017 at 4:53 pm

        People that live in glass houses……..besides, how do you know that what Bruce posted isn’t the truth?

        Please quote where I said that Bruce was not telling the truth … in fact, the truth content of his statement cannot be determined for two reasons. First, he hasn’t said who he is talking to. Second. he has not defined what a “fcukwit” might be when it is at home. So, no way to tell.

        Bruce’s crime was not being untruthful. It was the far more significant offense of being boring …

        w.

      • I was giving my daughter a ride home from having visited her boyfriend. On the way she was texting. Suddenly my phone buzzed and on it was a text message from her phone: “My dad is an asshat”. I had no idea (still don’t, sounds like something from Harry Potter).

        She explained that it really came from someone else that had borrowed her phone earlier and only now arrived on my phone. Besides being an asshat, maybe I’m stupid. But as a network engineer, maybe not THAT stupid. She meant to send the text to someone else :-)

      • Bruce’s comment was that of an immature internet twit, but Michael darby reveals the mind of a shriveled internet troll. Neither added one wit to the conversation. One showed himself to be dim, while the other showed he has little class.

      • Aw, come on, Willis, maybe Bruce just didn’t learn to spell at school. They will correct this next year when he goes into second grade.

      • Owen in GA: “Neither added one wit to the conversation.” But together they added one wit — which makes each of them …

    • Hi Griff! You’re going to need to extend your commentary a bit or you’ll miss this week’s target! Has the rate increaed any this year or is it still 5 cents a word?

  13. One of my testicles just jumped straight out of my trousers and onto my mousepad. It looked me square in the eye and screeched ‘from now on , I identify as a xxx chromo’

    I was dumbfounded. speechless. We have been good friends for most of my life. ‘balls’ , was the best I could muster.

    ‘Not any more’, it said.

    So that’s it for me. Bill Nye is right and I now believe in CAGW. And other talking bollocks.

    • EternalOptimist April 6, 2017 at 4:02 pm

      You have been good friends? Just goes to show ya, you can’t rust anyone anymore…Give your xxx chromo a participation trophy and send it toa safe space.

    • We could use the money from all the CAGW funding that falls into a black hole here on Earth to study one in Space.

  14. Now if we can figure out a way to get them to carry placards with Mao, Stalin, Lysenko, and Che.

    These folks are similtaneously clownish and dangerous. Usually the worst sort.

    • At the Copenhagen confab, Chavez and Mugabe too over-spoke their time-limits and drew standing ovations for their anti-West screeds. Videos of those applauses should be used in the next climate-contrarian film, because they indicate where many warmists’ hearts are at.

      • Chavez. Now that is a mouthful. Seems like only yesterday and $100 a barrel oil that he was the latest fetish leader of the Progressive movement. Genius of the Danube and all that. Now his beloved people suffer hunger in the dark while struggling to shake the disease he left behind. I felt sorry for the poor tumor that he infected.

        No quarter ask none given.

  15. From the March for (Junk)Science website:
    “We are building a broad, nonpartisan, and diverse coalition of organizations and individuals who stand up for science……”

    Nonpartisan? Nonpartisan? Um….yea. Right. And I’m Smokey The Bear…..

    • Good catch CD. Going through the adjectives:
      Broad? Nope
      Nonpartisan? Nope
      Diverse? Nope
      Stand up for science? Nope

      That’s four falsehoods from the “we” in one sentence. No wonder they fight with each other.

  16. I think that the organizers should have scheduled the march for April 1st! They are all a joke and fools to boot!

    • Immediate flash-back to the ‘Ship of Fools’ caught in the Antarctic ice that wasn’t there (they believed), and had to be rescued.
      2013-14 I am reminded.
      Already over three years ago.

      Auto

  17. I’m still trying to get my head around the significance of the poster associating Bill Nye with the Disney logo. I can’t imagine ANYTHING more opposite than Disney and any kind of science. Disney is and has always been a feelings and emotions enterprise – and they are VERY good at it! Science is the search for truth without regard for emotions. It doesn’t matter whether or not you feel good about the Law of Gravity, it simply IS!

  18. This personal attack is totally unnecessary, be it Bill Nye or anyone else, it does sceptics no favours. This bile is one of the reasons I turned from an AGW believer into a sceptic. I can get this kind of personal attack tripe from any alarmist site I care to visit. I really didn’t expect it from contributors to WUWT.

    We promote the science, yet now we smell a little success, after many years in the wilderness, the best we can do is mount a full frontal personal assault on a member of the alarmist brigade? It makes us no better than them.

    Does this mean our professionals will now seek retribution at every opportunity and humiliate and degrade anyone who adopts the position of a warmist or alarmist. Once again, we stoop to their level.

    I object to this futile, paranoid, revengeful and childish attack on Bill Nye, or anyone with a belief in AGW. They may not be right in their beliefs, but we may not be right in ours.

    Stop it. It is disgusting and demeaning and we object to it, for very good reason, when it is levelled at us.

    Willis, I am shocked, and ashamed of you.

    Anthony, I am appalled you allowed this on your site.

    • Dear HotScot: I suggest you do a little research into the “position of a warmist or alarmist” that this “any person” has “adopted”, and the WAY he has promoted it as Science God. THEN you can fly your virtue signals without promoting giggles.

    • This qualifies as bile?????

      It’s pretty mild compared to what Bill the nonsense guy has sent our way.

      • Other than a couple of mild digs towards Nye for the notion that he could possibly represent science, most of the digs are at those who care more about a person’s color and gender than they do about a person’s character or qualifications. Such people have earned everything that is thrown at them.

    • HotScot April 6, 2017 at 5:19 pm

      This personal attack is totally unnecessary, be it Bill Nye or anyone else, it does sceptics no favours. This bile is one of the reasons I turned from an AGW believer into a sceptic. I can get this kind of personal attack tripe from any alarmist site I care to visit. I really didn’t expect it from contributors to WUWT.

      I’m sorry, Scotty, but having re-read the post I’m not seeing what has you so upset.

      Which is why I ask people to QUOTE THE EXACT WORDS YOU OBJECT TO … but noooo, the Hot Scot is far above such plebeian nonsense as that.

      We promote the science, yet now we smell a little success, after many years in the wilderness, the best we can do is mount a full frontal personal assault on a member of the alarmist brigade? It makes us no better than them.

      “We”? What is this “we”? I’m a well-known climate blogger and I sign my name to my work. You are a random anonymous internet popup who could disavow his words tomorrow. There is no “we”.

      Does this mean our professionals will now seek retribution at every opportunity and humiliate and degrade anyone who adopts the position of a warmist or alarmist. Once again, we stoop to their level.

      “Our professionals”? Which “professionals” would those be? I was unaware “we” owned any professionals … but then I don’t know who “we” is.

      I object to this futile, paranoid, revengeful and childish attack on Bill Nye, or anyone with a belief in AGW. They may not be right in their beliefs, but we may not be right in ours.

      And I object to your righteous pig-headed insistence that everyone should be just like you. Some of us poke fun at the opposition. You see that as some kind of crime. Sorry, but you should learn to laugh.

      Stop it.

      Stop WHAT, exactly? Stop everything that the HotScot thinks is wrong? Stop being a meanie to Bill Nye, a man who has made his living demeaning and distorting science? Check out what your pal Bill said about climate “deniers” sometime. Here’s a sample of what you are defending and the rest of us are laughing at:

      “To the deniers out there, or to the extreme skeptics. I want you to think about what is called cognitive dissonance,” Nye said. “Do you remember cognitive dissonance? The liberal arts education thing. This is a psychological theory that you can run tests and show that it is true.”

      “I submit to you, climate deniers. What you’re doing is instead of accepting that climate is changing, you are denying the evidence.”

      That’s your boy, Scotty, and if you don’t laugh at that you’ve lost your sense of humor. Goes around, comes around.

      It is disgusting and demeaning and we object to it, for very good reason, when it is levelled at us.

      Say what? Leveled at “us”? “We” object to it? Dude, you’ve spent too much time watching the Queen on TV. She gets to say “We object to it”. You don’t.

      Willis, I am shocked, and ashamed of you.

      Yes, and you’re not all that switched on about comma usage either, but I digress. While I’m glad I’ve not lost the ability to shock people, I could not possibly care less if you are ashamed. I don’t take moral advice from people without the albondigas to sign their own words. If you are ashamed, well, that’s your business, but I’ve done nothing to be ashamed of.

      w.

      • Willis,

        feeling a tad defensive are we? A detailed rebuttal of a “random anonymous internet popup”?

        Using the authority of your position to discredit another? Virtue signalling?

        Because Bill Nye is a nasty little piece of works, it doesn’t mean you have to be.

      • HotScot April 9, 2017 at 1:49 am

        Willis,

        feeling a tad defensive are we?

        Nope. Just wanted to see if you actually had anything under your bluster. Not.

        A detailed rebuttal of a “random anonymous internet popup”?

        When a man tells me he is “shocked and ashamed” by my actions, I defend them. What do you do?

        Using the authority of your position to discredit another?

        I have exactly the same “authority” here as you do, that is to say, none. Our words are all we have.

        Virtue signalling?

        Not for me, thanks. I haven’t had breakfast and it upsets my stomach.

        Because Bill Nye is a nasty little piece of works, it doesn’t mean you have to be.

        That’s a good thing, and it’s why I’m not any kind of “piece of works [sic]” at all.

        w.

    • HotScot wrote some things: “we stoop to their level.”

      That we do. Or I do. I have no idea who I mean by “we” and even less knowledge of you you mean by “we”.

      One of the weaknesses of the right was failing to grasp the Power of the Left, which, as Saul Alinsky kindly explains, resides principally with ridicule. One of the weaknesses of the Left is not recognizing that ridicule does not affect libertarians in particular. So both sides tend to be ineffective on the other AND that is also a reason why it is not a continuum from left to right. The left in particular enforces “left-ness” upon its subscribers.

      “but we may not be right in ours.”

      Yet you seem to express considerable rightness in your opinion, a worthy opinion to be sure but effective only upon those for whom it is effective.

      To FAIL to ridicule and humiliate the left is seen as a weakness by the left on the assumption that you would if you could and dared to do so. They taunt each other frequently; entire television shows exist to taunt and ridicule their own kind. Oh, they ridicule libertarians and the right wing, but how many of that kind watch Saturday Night Live? They are sending signals of (1) acceptable beahvior and (2) establishing hierarchy and (3) de-stressing the pack by designating the “omega” for everyone to ridicule.

      Obama did this a few years ago at the White House correspondents dinner, designated Donald Trump for ridicule. How did that turn out?

      Consider any kind of pecking order or hierarchy. How is it established? The “pecking order” is so named because this establishment is physical. As you go up the evolutionary ladder, words and behaviors start to take the place of physical hierarchy establishment, but if words don’t work, it’s back to physical.

      The solution therefore seems to be to “ridicule with style” and W.E. handles that part well. Ridicule sends a signal to the left, and style sends a signal to the right.

    • HotScot: Welcome to the reality of “science”. Neither side is capable of being nice. Learn to love it or learn to love being pummeled by both sides for your idealism and rational thoughts.

      • Sheri,

        I have suffered an awful lot worse than this in the past because of my desire to remain impartial. Thanks though.

  19. Is it just me, or is this sentence incomplete: “Prepare for impassioned speeches from all the extremely scientific co-“?
    CO’s.
    Co-ed dorm captains.
    Co-d pink conspirators.
    Co-Agenda 21ers.
    Co- what did you mean (I tried to quote the exact words that you wrote)?
    – JPP

  20. Julius Sumner Miller – a real science guy. Never missed an episode of “Why Is It So?”. A nice example:

    On XX vs XY, I once saw this cute cartoon captioned “The Goddess Creates Men”. The drawing showed the goddess up in heaven sorting a tray of XX pairs for the next batch of women. She picks up one and accidentally breaks off the lower right leg of the X, thereby making an XY pair. “Oops”.

    • Which is essentially the case.

      In mammals with the XY system, males are effectively genetically defective women. We are missing alleles to match up with most of the big X chromosome. Hence, much higher rate of sex-linked genetic disorders in men.

      And it’s why male pattern baldness is inherited from your mother’s dad.

      • Or evolution has made males to demonstrate greater diversity so that the species can adapt more quickly. Evolution has been at work for 4 billion years I tend not to think it uses poor tools.

      • Gloateus suggests “males are effectively genetically defective women.”

        Well that’s one way of looking at it (I don’t look at it that way).

        “We are missing alleles”

        I seem not to be missing alleles. Perhaps I misplaced one in my desk drawer and just don’t remember having done so.

    • Thanks so much for the video of Julius Sumner Miller. How the world needs people like him now, although I used to be terrified of his interrogations about science of children my own age. It is interesting that he was better known in Australia than his native California.

  21. “97% of all true moral noble and upstanding humanoids ”

    You forgot to include all the Nobel humanoids, who once had something to do with the IPCC … or something or other.

  22. Per Willis’ link, march for/against science will be held on Earth Day, 22 April. I had heard that the date was picked by environmental activists because it was Lenin’s birthday. There is much on the Internet. I found this post interesting:
    https://cei.org/blog/earth-day-lenins-birthday-coincidence
    Quote:
    So on the 45th anniversary of the first Earth Day, we sadly see the continuing belief in command-and-control economic systems. Government ownership of the land, water, and natural resources continues to grow with each passing year. The mass of governmental regulatory agencies, bureaucrats, and the sheer staggering number of new environmental regulations passed every year take us further away from any solution.

    • A year or two ago I heard, on NPR, an interview of the daughter of a legendary adman who had just died. He had handled the publicity for the first Earth Day. She said that he suggested April 22 based on his own birthday, or that of one of his relatives or friends. She sounded convincing to me; she didn’t seem aware of the Lenin’s-birthday claim.

  23. OT:

    Well, it looks like Trump has laid down a marker for the dictators of the world. The U.S. just struck targets in Syria with cruise missiles.

    I bet ole Kim Jung Un of North Korea is paying attention. Russia and China, too. And all the totalitarians of the world. What do you think.

    I’m thinking all of them are going to be taking Trump a little more seriously now.

    • If, as reported, the attack involved 50 cruise missiles, Trump is still way behind Clinton’s attempt to distract from Monica Lewinsky. That involved 63-88 Tomahawks:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Infinite_Reach#Background

      Still, it’s a more than token gesture.

      Missiles have the advantage of not needing to warn the Russians ahead of time. Of course that didn’t stop Clinton from warning Pakistan, so that they could warn bin Laden to evacuate his training camps.

      • Don’t they have a “use by” date?
        Resupply is likely already factored into the stock price.

      • Wouldn’t the solid rocket motor and the explosive be the only parts with use by dates?
        The electronics and structure should have a pretty long life expectancy.

    • President Trump authorized a coordinated cruise missile attack on the Syrian airbase that supported the aircraft that launched the WMD gas attack on Syrian civilians. Then he had dinner with the Chinese President at Mar-a-Lago.

      Tonight Syria, Russia, China, Iran, ISIS, and North Korea are all frantically re-evaluating their intelligence estimates of the new President of the United States of America. And well they should….

      “Message received? How copy? Over…”

      • We extend the open hand of friendship to all people of goodwill. Others will be dealt with appropriately. Whatever the cost to us in lives and treasure you are mistaken in believing that we will not act forcefully when required. That weak fellow is gone. The new one has an itchy finger, a huge gun, and trouble sleeping. Enjoy.

  24. I think I saw all of the Science Fiction Theaters in the 1950s:
    Science Fiction Theater 26 Target Hurricane:

    I used to relay these TV episodes to my friend via phone in high school who had no TV…
    He is now a Dr of physics and computer science who believes in CAGW…

  25. The “best and brightest” are protesting the “color of his skin”. The outcome of resurrecting institutional racism, sexism, etc. and normalizing prejudice, unlike the incompletely, and, in fact, insufficiently characterized, and unwieldy Earth system, was not only forecast, but was wholly predictable.

  26. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/ancient-arctic-ice-core-damaged-melting-university-alberta-1.4058756

    A coveted collection of ancient ice cores recently acquired by the University of Alberta has been partially destroyed in an “unprecedented” double malfunction of a $4-million freezer.

    Nearly 13 per cent of the samples in the Canadian Ice Core Archive melted when temperatures inside a storage freezer soared to 40 C after the refrigeration chillers shut down, university maintenance officials said Thursday.

    After the chillers shut down, the system monitoring the freezer temperatures failed due to “a database corruption,” the U of A said in a news release.

    U of Alberta? They’ll blame it on the Russians… with the blessing of Freeland.

  27. A lot of O2 is going to wasted on April 22 and a lot of CO2 is going to be added to the atmosphere. But heck it is cherry time in DC so just maybe they’ll have a decent crop. Oh right those trees, just like the politicians don’t produce anything except for “flowery” looks..

    • Don Perry @ 9:09

      Yes, I quite agree. It detracts from the issue, is childish and boring. Also gives us useless stuff to have to sort through. Most importantly it lowers the tone of WUWT to the level of the rest of the pack which is a great shame after Anthony has spent so much time making it great (again?).

      • HotScot asked “It seems I’m not alone in holding this opinion.”

        So it would seem. 7 billion humans on Earth; someone has the same opinion!

      • @Michael 2

        Gosh, you’re so clever. Unfortunately there isn’t 7 billion humans subscribing to this blog, or did you miss that bit?

      • HotScot wrote: “Gosh, you’re so clever.”

        True enough. As it happens I am a clever Scot. If there’s truth to the stereotype of Scottish engineer, well, I would be an affirming example.

        “Unfortunately there isn’t 7 billion humans subscribing to this blog”

        Nearly certain to be true, but I have not asserted that it is so. The selection pool is 7 billion persons. From this selection pool we draw two sets. One set is persons who think as you think, and the other set is those who read this blog. It is somewhat likely that persons who think like you will also behave like you, meaning that a disproportionate number out of that 7 billion people pool is probably here with you; or put another way, the chance or probability of encountering such a person is at least slightly better than 1/[7e9].

        “or did you miss that bit?”

        Somewhere on Earth is someone that thinks like you, he or she may be reading this blog AND I missed the part where previous to your observation someone has pointed out that not all 7 billion people read this blog.

      • @Michael 2

        Your statement was specific, with no qualification: “7 billion humans on Earth; someone has the same opinion!”.

        “It is somewhat likely that persons who think like you will also behave like you”.

        And your evidence for this sweeping statement is?

        “meaning that a disproportionate number out of that 7 billion people pool is probably here with you”.

        Shouldn’t that be ‘proportionate’ number? A disproportionate number would suggest one significantly higher, or lower, than a number proportionate to the pool, the sets, the number of subscribers to this blog, the number of people with access to a suitable computing device, and those of that subset with internet access. Amongst other variables like, most of the worlds population don’t give a monkeys about GW, man made or otherwise, at least those with a computing device and internet access who could be bothered to vote on an online, United Nations poll.

        In other words, you made a smart ar*ed comment and now your wriggling.

        Haud yer wheesht.

      • HotScot wrote: “Michael 2: Your statement was specific, with no qualification: 7 billion humans on Earth; someone has the same opinion!”

        Well, okay, I exaggerated. It is remotely possible that your exact opinion is not found even among 7 billion humans. In my experience people and their thinking tends to cluster around specific “attractors” which I believe are evolutionary in nature and thus not amenable to change or even inspection.

        Several such attractors exist and are somewhat rival. One is a need for security in a herd or hive and its political manifestation is socialism in varying forms. It is rival with an explorer instinct to find new pasture. A third attractor is a need to protect the herd. This kind isn’t interested in being a herd or hive member, but obtains some benefit in the vicinity of the herd and protects the herd from predators. It is those predators that are a fourth kind of attractor.

        In the movie, “American Sniper”, we explore three kinds: Sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs. A fourth kind, the loner, isn’t relevant to war, neither making it or preventing it and thus outside the scope of the movie.

        “And your evidence for this sweeping statement is?”/i>

        I do not offer evidence. I declare my beliefs. You declare yours. Nothing here is evidence; it is all words.

        “In other words, you made a smart ar*ed comment and now your wriggling.”

        Yes. It creates opportunity to lay out ideas for further exploration. In the hive and herd thing, I seem to lean toward protective of the herd but also exploration, find new forage for the herd; but I don’t like being *in* the herd or told what to do by those who appoint themselves shepherds.

      • @Michael 2

        Once again I refer to your original statement, “7 billion humans on Earth; someone has the same opinion!”

        It is uncompromising, and again unqualified by any expression that it is your belief. Indeed it appears a rash, ill considered, statement of fact.

        “In my experience” is nothing more than anecdotal evidence.

        Reference to a Hollywood dramatisation of real events to justify anything is ludicrous. Much like citing Braveheart as a representation of Scottish culture and factual events.

        So, from a simple, silly statement you made, you have bragged about your intellect, maintain your experience is suitable evidence to support a fantastical departure into the subject of herds and hives, cite Hollywood as a source of philosophical inspiration, dismiss a sweeping statement as a declaration of your beliefs and, finally, when you admit (barely) you are wriggling, you justify it by contending you are merely exploring ideas.

        Wow, flights of fancy or what?

      • HotScot writes “Once again I refer to your original statement, ‘7 billion humans on Earth; someone has the same opinion!’ It is uncompromising, and again unqualified by any expression that it is your belief. Indeed it appears a rash, ill considered, statement of fact.”

        Good heavens, you seem obsessed! I suppose the only thing to do is find that other person that shares your opinion. Alastair Brickell April 6, 2017 at 10:22 pm “Yes, I quite agree. It detracts from the issue, is childish and boring.”

        “‘In my experience’ is nothing more than anecdotal evidence.”

        Yes.

        “Reference to a Hollywood dramatisation of real events to justify anything is ludicrous. Much like citing Braveheart as a representation of Scottish culture and factual events.”

        You mistake that I need to justify anything as if you were some kind of judge.

        What is important is shared experience to advance a conversation. Chris Kyle’s father chose the metaphor of sheep, wolves and sheepdogs to explain the circumstances under which entering a school playground fight on behalf of someone else would be justified by him. Justification is not a property of a thing, it is the result of a mental process by someone that presumes himself to be a judge (that be you for you, and me for me).

        “So, from a simple, silly statement you made, you have bragged about your intellect”

        Bragging was apparently a fine art in Scandinavia (Beowulf comes to mind).

        “maintain your experience is suitable evidence to support a fantastical departure into the subject of herds and hives”

        I admire your quick grasp of the obvious. Carl Jung, Sigmund Freud, so far as I know each used his own experiences to develop his understanding of psychology just as I do likewise for my own understanding.

        “cite Hollywood as a source of philosophical inspiration”

        I have many sources of inspiration and even more sources of expressions.

        “dismiss a sweeping statement as a declaration of your beliefs”

        That happens occasionally.

        “and, finally, when you admit you are wriggling, you justify it by contending you are merely exploring ideas.”

        I justify nothing. Occasionally I will explain my behavior. My style of argumentation is intended to be at least slightly unpredictable to get people “off script” and onto a meaningful discussion. It can take quite a long time to exhaust these scripts.

      • HotScot orders: “Michael 2, Keep digging.”

        Once again you assume to tell others what to do; it’s probably in your DNA. But today is your lucky day, it is indeed my nature to keep digging until I have uncovered truth or decide there’s no truth to be had.

    • Do you need a ‘safe place’? In the part of the world that accepts the right to free speech proscribed by the 1st Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, the open, uncensored discussion of concepts and ideas may not always appeal to your delicate sensibilities… or your desires for selective censorship.

      • A “safe place” is merely the place that intolerant people wish to go when they can’t destroy, or at least silence those that they disagree with. It is in fact an expression of close minded intolerance.

    • DP,

      Even Willis’ cat is not happy. Safe space is relative to one’s perception of need. The cat is inside and out of the rain but it is not happy. Probably would be less happy outside.

      Would you have read through soo many posts if you had the opportunity to scroll through an equal of blank pages? Would that make you a ‘happy cat’? You may not really like a safe space after all you put yourself through.

  28. A. Philip Randolph and Bayard Rustin began planning the [ Great March on Washington ] in December 1961.[ … ] They received help from Amalgamated Clothing Workers unionist Stanley Aronowitz, who

    gathered support from radical organizers who could be trusted not to report their plans to the Kennedy administration.
    ____________________________

    What good is a March with “announcement that the March for Science, [ will be scheduled for April 22, ] “

  29. Bill Nye “The Science Guy” is a yet another TV moron… He is neither a scientist nor a philosopher and his attempts to do science and philosophy fail miserably. He’s just an entertainer and a very poor one at that.
    Bill Nye is ‘The Socialist Guy’.

  30. “It gets better. The protest is not just because Bill Nye lacks melanin. He’s also guilty of being short of another even more important requirement.

    Bill Nye lacks that scientific necessity, the vital XX chromosome.” ~W E

    It is helpful to realize that gender equality now has absolutely nothing to do with individual freedom and equality in the law. It is now a numbers game. The entire goal of feminism is attaining the correct percentages of women in all fields.

    ref below

    • “Thus, feminists measure gender equality, in the words of a popular women’s studies textbook, by “the degree to which men and woman have similar kinds or degrees of power, status, autonomy, and authority.”[22]

      Practically speaking, this standard has led most contemporary feminists to gauge equality in terms of outcome uniformity rather than equal legal opportunity. If women are not half of all college athletes, half of all engineers, half of all surgeons, half of all CEOs, and half of all political leaders, for example, the assumption is that women do not have the opportunity or freedom to pursue these goals equally.”
      ~Christian Villegas

      http://www.heritage.org/political-process/report/the-modern-feminist-rejection-constitutional-government

      It occurs to me that everyone already knows this. (: Thanks for waiting while I catch up.

    • Rubbish. About 70% of teachers are female, I see little effort to make it 50%.

      About 90% of nurses are female, I have seen little effort to fire almost half of them and replace them with men.

      About 90% of workers in the retail sector are female, no one complains about it, I see little effort to fire half of them and replace them with men.

      There are 25 people employed at my wife’s place of work, all are female. I never hear them making plans to dump half of their staff and replace them with men.

      • Klem,
        All they need to do is get the excess to ignore certain observable facts and “identify” as the other gender.
        (Not sure how to handle those who “identify” as non-gender. Maybe shoot for 33.333…% of each?)

      • Klem says, “Rubbish. About 70% of teachers are female, I see little effort to make it 50%.”

        I do not see the 50% standard of female participation in a field as a maximum limit, only a minimum. The reason this is wrong is because it is a capricious and arbitrary means of qualification, and it requires large government to fulfill this arbitrary quota.

        Not only that, experience shows that it will result in forcing all women into the work place. Very advantageous for government in expanding tax base, in expanding government systems of patronage in who gets hired, and the end of the home maker in society.

        Remember, the Baby Boomers hated June Cleaver. Mo and four wives, yes — That is all very multi culti. But they hated June Cleaver and wanted to erase her existence. No one has ever seen her since. So the toxic form of feminism is in combination with the Cannabis Generation’s pet philosophies — it is not just a form of government action to expand its own power.

        Klem says, “There are 25 people employed at my wife’s place of work, all are female. I never hear them making plans to dump half of their staff and replace them with men.”

        And the female participation in the prison population is only 7%. Something must be done. I believe that is an argument put forward by the ACLU.

      • Not only that, experience shows that it will result in forcing all women into the work place. Very advantageous for government in expanding tax base, in expanding government systems of patronage in who gets hired, and the end of the home maker in society.

        I saw a story a couple of weeks ago about a feminist saying it should be illegal for a woman to be a stay at mom.
        http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/03/24/should-it-be-illegal-to-be-stay-at-home-mom-why-feminists-are-so-frustrated.html

  31. Don Perry April 6, 2017 at 9:09 pm

    Have the mods gone on vacation? I found this thread filled with disgusting name-calling that ought have been tossed.

    Since you’ve failed to quote whatever it is that has your knickers in a twist, I fear your objection is merely virtue signaling.

    My suggestion would be that if you find someone’s words objectionable, don’t issue some vague hand-waving statement about how somebody somewhere said something “disgusting”. That goes nowhere.

    Instead, answer the person directly and quote what you object to. You may find that others agree with you … or you may find you are in the minority.

    But at least we’ll know what you’re upset about …

    Regards,

    w.

  32. You are all being disgracefully non-PC and will be put down on the list for re-education. I’ll have to crawl across the floor to find a pen to write down your names – when I stop laughing!

  33. Great title to the article. “The March Against Science.” Exactly what they are about.

  34. Must be frustrating Bill. After all your efforts for years this is how you are repaid.

    Oh well Bill. Your case proves beyond doubt the inherently uncompromising nature of the cAWG crowd.

    Look at the bright side, the cAWG crowd excludes a very diverse, dare I say heterogeneous, group of people. a.k.a. The majority. Despite of everything, you’ll fit right in.

  35. “So in the wonderful American non-tradition of everyone getting a Participation Trophy,..” thats not just an American non tradition I’ll have you know. We all non do that.

  36. I’m sorry, but this outfit is clearly transphobic.

    There are real women out there with x y chromosomes. Ask any loony 3rd wave feminist

  37. I love it. Someone should head line “Bill Nye gets kicked to the back of the climate change bus.”

  38. “Prepare for impassioned speeches from a bunch of extremely scientific spokesdudes and spokesmodels on how Trump hates water and air, and how spending $ Trillions with a T to cool the earth by 0.1°C in fifty years is a scientifically brilliant plan supported by 97% of all true moral noble and upstanding humanoids everywhere. Amen.

    Oh, and if you disagree, think of the grandchildren, because compassion, and besides you’re just a hater and a scientific troglodyte, because 97%.

    I put the over/under of someone passing out white lab coats along the march route at 100%.

    March for science? … I don’t think so.

    A rainy day here, more rain on the way. The forest is happy. The cat is not happy.

    Me, I’m overjoyed, and I can only wish the same for you.”

    This is genuinely funny, I laughed a lot!

  39. I failed to notice any mention of the inclusion of Native Americans , the people who “ran” North America
    very successfully for more than 10 000 years , coping with considerable changes in climate during that time – amazingly without the help of Europeans.
    The latter of course were preoccupied during that time in inventing novel ways of killing each other.

      • A valid point and the answer, addressed mainly to Inca wheellessness , may be here :

        https://www.quora.com/Why-were-the-indigenous-peoples-of-the-Americas-not-able-to-invent-the-wheel

        -“The fact is that most civilizations in the Old World didn’t invent the wheel either–instead, they borrowed it from some other culture. The wheel appears to have been first used in Sumer in the Middle East around 3500 BC, whence it spread across Europe, Asia, and North Africa. It didn’t arrive in Britain until 500 BC. This orderly diffusion pattern makes it conceivable that all the wheels in use today are directly descended from the invention of a single gifted individual–an individual, however, who was such a dope that he failed to sign his name on the patent application, thus assuring his (or her) eternal anonymity. We might therefore attribute Inca wheellessness to the absence of a pre-Columbian Thomas Edison.
        But there are other factors involved. The principle of rotary motion, is pretty obvious, and was well known throughout the New World as well as the Old. The Incas, for instance, are thought to have used wooden rollers to haul the giant stones they used to build their cities. Unfortunately, the New World suffered from a conspicuous scarcity of draft animals. The only beast of burden known in the Americas was the llama, a delicate critter restricted to certain parts of the Andes, which was used solely as a pack animal. Without draft animals you cannot do extensive hauling with sledges, and without sledges it will never occur to you that the wheel would be a handy thing to have.”-

        And they did not even have llamas in North America .

      • Mesoamerican Indians did know of wheels, but they put them on toys, rather than carts. However, the lack of draft animal argument is not IMO convincing, since they used humans as beasts of burden, and a man-hauled cart can carry more weight than his back or head.

        Plains Indians used dogs to pull a travois made of wooden poles.

        The potter’s wheel however was apparently unknown in the New World.

        A more telling consideration is the lack of metallurgy in the Pre-Columbian New World. Maybe bronze also was invented by only one genius in the Near East, but it’s possible that the discovery also occurred independently elsewhere in the Old World.

        Both Aztecs and Incas were just starting to make bronze prestige artifacts when Europeans arrived, c. AD 1500. That’s some 4800 years after the Old World.

        The Mayans had systems of writing and symbolic arithmetic, but they were lost. The Inca had a record keeping system based upon strings, called quipu in Quechua.

      • @mikewaite

        “This orderly diffusion pattern makes it conceivable that all the wheels in use today are directly descended from the invention of a single gifted individual–an individual, however, who was such a dope that he failed to sign his name on the patent application”

        That’s assuming it wasn’t a committee, designing a camel.

    • mikewaite wrote “I failed to notice any mention of the inclusion of Native Americans”

      Most of the marchers and its leader, and me, and probably you, are native Americans.

      “the people who ran North America very successfully for more than 10 000 years”

      They had effective population controls called “war” and desertification. Where are the Pueblo indians or the Fremont?

      “The latter of course were preoccupied during that time in inventing novel ways of killing each other.”

      Whereas the Americans were satisfied with traditional ways of killing each other until they adopted the European ways of killing each other, which on close inspection turns out to be Chinese after all (gunpowder).

      • garymount April 7, 2017 at 5:37 am
        And after all those 10 000 years, not one of them invented the wheel.

        If a wheel or writing is found in North America, academics and scholars have a word for it. “Fraud.” So you see it is a self-fulfilling theory you have there.

  40. I keep wondering which of Charles Dickens’ characters Bill Nye most resembles. I like the comparison with Seth Pecksniff: “Some people likened him to a direction-post, which is always telling the way to a place, and never goes there.”

  41. I know I am going to catch a bunch of flak for this, but…..

    Nye does not “lack”. He has one that others lack. He has an X, and he has a Y. His co-marchers lack the Y. They are Y deficient (in more ways than one).

  42. It is appropriate that a faux scientist leads political activists in a march about the politics of extremists seeking to impose their extremism in the name of science. It is even more appropriate that it is Bill Nye, the leading faux scientist in America, is to be leading this march.

  43. Go the DVD section of any taxpayer funded public library, children’s section. Nye has feet, not inches of shelf space.

  44. MFS should have gotten a ‘Jerry Lewis’ stand-in and parade kids in wheelchairs like the Cerebral Palsy and March of Dimes telethons did in the ’60s and the other guy in the ’50s.

    OMG!

    Bill Nye the Gay Guy IS the ‘Jerry Lewis’ stand-in and Al Gore, Jim Hansen, John Holdren and Michael E. Mann are the kids in wheelchairs!

    Now their plan is clear to me. I can see their new slogan on the placards, “give us money”! Beautiful!

  45. “Some animals are more equal than others.”

    We are way past 1984.

    You really can’t make this stuff up. Might as well enjoy it.

  46. Only lefties could struggle like this for their rights not to have to struggle so booting them onto the dole will really see them in their element.

  47. I know Roger was lampooning them when he said: “The smartest people on the planet…” But, I have no doubt that most of them (i.e., academics) are sure they fit that category.

  48. Let the March of the Narcissists begin. Everyone line up in front, since none want to be second or third in line.

  49. I still say someone should attend the March with video camera in hand. Ask the participants their occupation and see how many are really scientists. Then give everyone a fun little Climate Quiz, asking them how fast sea levels are rising or what percentage of CO2 added to the atmosphere each year is due to human activity. I am willing to wager less than 50% will be scientists (if that) and none will answer the questions correctly.

  50. The march has been taken over by the left. There was a bit of a fuss about this last week. It’s certainly not about Science.

      • Naw, Bill, that’s the “March for Climate, Justice, and Jobs”. It’s the following week, on April 29th. The March Against Science is April 22nd.

        The March for Climate, Justice, and Jobs is being put on by the Peoples Climate Movement. Their motto is:

        WE RESIST.
        WE BUILD.
        WE RISE.

        w.

      • So this could strive for the Million Man (person) March and also invite Black Lives Matter too.

  51. If you asked this crowd of scientists “What is blackbody radiation?” they’d likely say ‘some neutron bomb that targets only African Americans.’

  52. I would suggest March of the Penguins, but that might include unpleasant low temps and smells.

  53. Willis, are you saying that Mr. Nye is an albino? If you’re not, as someone who has looked at skin sections, I have a bit of a story to tell. You see, white people don’t lack melanin relative to their darker shaded cousins. Aside from melanin type differences, you see, the skin shade is dependent on depth of penetration, not total amount of melanin in the skin.

  54. of all the ways to criticize these marches, this attempt to dismiss it outright based on nothing at all is about the weakest i’ve read. that’s too bad, because a good critique is needed, i think

  55. mikewaite April 7, 2017 at 4:35 am

    I failed to notice any mention of the inclusion of Native Americans , the people who “ran” North America very successfully for more than 10 000 years , coping with considerable changes in climate during that time – amazingly without the help of Europeans.

    You also failed to notice that there are no humans native to the Americas, so there are no Native Americans. They’d like you to believe that, but they are actually Early Asian Immigrants …

    The latter of course were preoccupied during that time in inventing novel ways of killing each other.

    From my understanding, if you were captured in war by the Pawnee or the Iriquois you’d find out that the Early Asian Immigrants had plenty of novel ways to kill each other. Roasted over a slow fire was a favorite, as was staking on an anthill …

    I find your historical “noble savage” claims to be … well … less than historically accurate.

    w.

    • The Aztec Empire was unusual in being based upon cannibalism rather than permanent conquest of territory. It needed to keep its enemy states independent in order to capture their warriors for sacrifice in their temples. That’s why Cortez found so many willing allies, like the Tlaxcalans.

      South America tribes conquered by the Incas were also glad to side with the Spanish against their overlords.

      The Caribs, from whom we get both the Caribbean Sea and the word “cannibal”, were similarly eating their way up the Antilles, consuming more peaceable local island tribes, when Columbus and company arrived.

      There was more or less constant warfare among Indian confederations of the Atlantic Seaboard of the US at the time of contact, as well. In the north, Indians killed Eskimos wherever they found them. They even killed the women instead of enslaving them, but took their dogs.

      • In South and Central America you have plenty of examples of narco-cultures. Psychopathic, idolatrous, violent. But within those cultures were often older traditions which were not like that.

      • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Falls_massacre

        The memoirs of Hudson’s Bay Company “servant” Samuel Hearne are essential for anyone with an interest in the North:

        https://web.archive.org/web/20110612042514/http://www.uwo.ca/english/canadianpoetry/eng%20274e/hearne.htm

        “… a young (Eskimo) girl, seemingly about eighteen years of age, [was] killed so near me, that when the first spear was stuck into her side she fell down at my feet, and twisted round my legs, so that it was with difficulty that I could disengage myself from her dying grasps. As two Indian men pursued this unfortunate victim, I solicited very hard for her life; but the murderers made no reply till they had stuck both their spears through her body … even at this hour I cannot reflect on the transactions of that horrid day without shedding tears.”

        The Dene and Chipewyan Indians told Hearne they would do the same to him if he wanted an Eskimo wife, so there was nothing he could do to save the girl or any of the other approximately 20 Copper Inuit slaughtered.

      • Zeke,

        Non-warlike tribes didn’t last long. For every peaceful group there are more like the Amazonian Yanamamo, who pride themselves on their ferocity.

        The Sioux took advantage of the horse and firearms to move out onto the Plains from Minnesota, subduing the tribes who already lived there. Blackfoot Indians did the same in Canada and the Northern US Rockies, thanks to trade connections with the Europeans.

        The Americas were no more peaceful than Europe, Asia, Africa, the Pacific (a misnomer) or anywhere else. Dunno about Australia.

      • Just as you say, Gloateous. My children are part Blackfoot, and part Viking and they do sometimes make me nervous. (:

        The number of Native American Indian languages spoken in NA at the time of the colonists’ arrival has been estimated at 2-3000. Each tribe had particular ways of life, and there were many who had some form of agriculture or settled fishing life. On the other end of the spectrum were raiders and gamblers. Many of these were expansionist, so the smaller nations will always have trouble existing next to larger ones. Same as in Europe. Look at Estonia.

        In some cases the settlers were asked for help against the raiding, ruthless tribes. For example, the Pequot of Connecticut. Some tribes turned to the English, others turned to the French. So sometimes the gentler, conjugial, more civilized tribes were the survivors.

        ref below.

      • reference text

        “A river having overflowed its banks, two Pots were carried along in the stream, one made of Earthenware and the other of Brass. “Well, brother, since we share the same fate, let us go along together,” cried the Brazen Pot to the Earthen one. “No, no!” replied the latter in a great fright; “keep off whatever you do, for if you knock against me, or I against you, it will be all over with me–to the bottom I shall go.”

        Moral

        Equals make the best friends.

      • I’d be nervous, too. My first wife was part Blackfoot. I’m part Powhatan. But mostly European, the winners in most of the wars for the continent.

        True that the peaceful Hopi have somehow miraculously survived, but the Navajo invaders now far outnumber them.

        The Hurons adopted Christianity and were wiped out in the Beaver Wars by the Iroquois Confederacy.

        At most places, in most times, most tribes have been more or less fierce. There’s a reason why, among our closest kin, warlike common chimps are more widespread than their more peaceable cousins the bonobos. Humans, like chimps, are ferocious animals, killing and dismembering (not necessarily in that order) not just their prey species (monkeys and bush babies in the case of chimps), but intruders of their own species.

    • The whole “noble savage” thing.
      They were men with all the same vices and faults every other man …er…”person”..(gotta stay “PC”).. has.
      What they didn’t have was the technology to make their inherent evil more effective.
      I think they are considered “noble” because their level of technology, theoretically, did less harm to Ma’ Gaia.
      They did “less harm” because it took a lot of work to get what they needed to live. Before the Spanish re-introduced the horse to North America, some of these “noble savages” would drive herds of animals over cliffs, harvest what they could and leave the rest to rot.
      After the horse, they could killed what they needed. Before the horse they did the same thing. They just had to kill a lot more critters.
      What kind of idiots think that an “indigenous tribe” is better off without being exposed to civilization?
      Exposure to new diseases? OK. Valid point. We have shots for that.
      Leave them “primitive” so we can study them? The “Prime Directive” is a Star Trek fantasy.
      “What about the(ir) children!”

      PS Along with burning and ant hills, there are records of these noble innocents slicing open a belly, tying the intestines around a tree and then forcing the victim to walk around it.

  56. http://lidblog.com/heh-march-of-science-doesnt-want-bill-nye-because-hes-white/

    “While Nye is an old white man, he is not a scientist. He has a B.S. in mechanical engineering from Cornell University, and worked at Boeing in the mechanical engineering department. His entry into TV was not because of any science expertise but because he won a Steve Martin look-alike contest and began moonlight as a stand-up comic by night. Eventually he quit Boeing and became a comedy writer and performer on a sketch comedy television show in Seattle, Washington, called Almost Live! The host of the show, Ross Shafer, suggested he do some scientific demonstrations in a six-minute segment, and take on the nickname “The Science Guy”. That’s right the Science Guy persona began in a comedy sketch and now he’s joke. In other words, Nye’s qualifications as a scientist are based on the fact that he looked like Steve Martin and did comedy about science. If he looked like Rodney Dangerfield, Nye might still be working as a mechanical engineer and have some respect.”

    • Such a pity he left engineering… or is it actually a blessing? Was there a commensurate decrease in Boeing aircraft failures in the ensuing years?

  57. Willis: Permanent drought. Do you hear me? PERMANENT drought. OK, I know..the noise from the continuing rain is making it hard for you to hear me. I’ll shout it at you in a year or two, when it stops raining.

  58. HEY, there!! Bill’s not lacking in cranial capacity (there’s a whole lot of empty space up there… LOT’s of capacity!). He’s just encephalogramatically challenged!

  59. We’re getting a welcome drop of that non-existent because of AGW rain here right now. Cold weather today but gotta love that tapdancing on the old tin roof.

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