Budget and personnel cuts reflect environmental progress and essential regulatory reforms
Guest opinion by Paul Driessen
The Trump White House wants significant reductions at the Environmental Protection Agency: two dozen or more programs, including a dozen dealing with President Obama’s climate initiatives; a 20% downsizing in EPA’s 15,000-person workforce; and a one-fourth reduction in its $8.1 billion budget.
The plan requires congressional approval, and thus is hardly a “done deal.” Not surprisingly, it is generating howls of outrage. Former U.S. EPA Administrator Gina McCarthy says the proposal would be “crippling,” and “devastating for the agency’s ability to protect public health.”
One employee resigned because the cuts would prevent him from serving “environmental justice” and “vulnerable communities.” A congressman claimed EPA is “already operating at 1989 staffing levels,” and the reductions could mean “cutting the meat and muscle with the fat.”
A deep breath and objective assessment are in order.
1) Since EPA was created in December 1970, America’s environmental progress has been amazing. Our cars now emit less than 2% of the pollutants that came out of tailpipes 47 years ago. Coal-fired power plant particulate, mercury, nitrogen oxide and sulfur dioxide emissions are 10-20 % of their 1970 levels. The white plumes above factory and power plant “smoke stacks” are 90% steam (water vapor) and plant-fertilizing carbon dioxide (which Obama EPA officials disingenuously called “carbon pollution”).
Our lakes, rivers, streams and coastal areas are infinitely cleaner and far safer to drink from or swim in. The notorious lead contamination in Flint, Michigan water occurred under Gina McCarthy’s watch, because her agency didn’t do its job. It was her EPA officials who also triggered the infamous Gold King Mine blowout that contaminated hundreds of miles of river water with arsenic and other toxic metals.
So much for “protecting public health,” ensuring “environmental justice,” and safeguarding our most “vulnerable communities.” It’s as if we’ve come full circle, and now need to be protected from EPA. In truth, that goes all the way back to the agency’s first administrator, William Ruckelshaus, who ignored his own scientists, banned DDT, and sentenced tens of millions of Africans and Asians to death from malaria.
2) EPA became bloated, incompetent and derelict in its fundamental duties largely because it became ideological, politicized and determined to control what it was never intended to regulate. Through mission creep, sue-and-settle lawsuits, and an eight-year quest to help “fundamentally transform” America’s energy and economic system, it attempted to regulate every rivulet, puddle and other “Water of the US,” stuck its nose in numerous local affairs – like the road to a nickel mine in Michigan – and colluded with environmentalists to block Alaska’s Pebble Mine before a permit application had even been submitted.
Most egregious was the agency’s use of alleged “dangerous manmade climate change” to justify its “war on coal,” its “Clean Power Plan,” and its determination to slash fossil fuel use and carbon dioxide emissions by regulating nearly every factory, farm, hospital, mall, drilling project and vehicle in America.
EPA’s other chief climate crusade target was methane, which it called “an extremely powerful climate pollutant” and absurdly claimed is responsible for “a fourth of all global warming to date.” Methane is a tiny 0.00017% of Earth’s atmosphere – equivalent to $1.70 out of $1 million (and compared to 0.04% for CO2) – and U.S. energy operations account for less than a tenth of all annual natural and manmade methane emissions. To control that, EPA wanted industry to spend billions of dollars per year.
It also demanded that cars and light trucks get 54.5 mpg by 2025. To meet that standard, automakers would have to downsize and plasticize vehicles, making them less safe and causing thousands of serious injuries and deaths – a reality that EPA ignored in its cost/benefit and environmental justice analysis.
When states, industries or experts raised questions about EPA’s “CO2 endangerment” decision, its biased and dishonest “social cost of carbon” analysis, or its use of “secret science” and highly suspect computer models to justify “climate chaos” claims – the agency railed about “intimidation” and “interference” with its mandate to “protect public health and welfare.” It’s time to take those questions seriously.
3) EPA obviously has too many anti-energy, anti-development staff, programs and dollars looking for more activities to regulate and terminate, to justify their existence. As these programs are properly and necessarily cut back, EPA budgets and personnel should likewise be reduced.
4) Complying with EPA and other government regulations inflicts staggering costs that reverberate throughout our economy, as businesses and families struggle to read, comprehend and comply with them. The Competitive Enterprise Institute calculated that federal regulations alone cost $1.885 trillion per year – prior to the epic regulatory tsunami of 2016 – with the Obama era alone generating $800 billion to $890 billion in annual regulatory burdens, the American Action Forum estimated.
EPA alone is responsible for well over $353 billion of the cumulative annual federal regulatory bill, CEI’s Wayne Crews estimated, based on 2012 data from the first four years of the Obama presidency. Just as disturbing, the total federal regulatory bill is equal to all individual and corporate tax payments combined.
Even more frightening, embedded in those federal regulations are fines and jail terms for some 5,000 federal crimes and 300,000 less serious criminal offenses. An absence of intent to violate the law, even failure to know and understand millions of pages of laws and regulations, even the mistaken assumption that no agency could possibly implement such an absurd rule, is no excuse. You’re still guilty as charged.
These regulatory burdens crush innovation, job creation, economic growth, and business and family wellbeing. They kill jobs, raise the cost of energy, food, products and services, reduce living standards, harm health and shorten lives. They violate any honest concept of “environmental justice.” Poor, minority, working class and other vulnerable families are hardest hit.
5) In fact, environmental justice is little more than a meaningless, malleable, phony concoction whose primary purpose is promoting progressive programs. Whatever EPA seeks to do advances justice and protects the vulnerable. Whatever an industry does or wants is unjust. Whenever anyone criticizes an agency action, it reflects racism or callous disregard for public health.
Only the effects of government regulations, and the actions of government regulators, appear to be exempt from recrimination, intimidation and penalties imposed in the name of environmental justice.
6) Fully 98% of all counties in the United States voted for Donald Trump and his vision for a less regulated, more prosperous nation, with fewer diktats from a Washington, DC that exempts itself from rules it inflicts on others. They did not vote for rolling back real environmental progress – and know full well that President Trump and EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt are doing no such thing.
They also know there is ample room – and abundant need – for the proposed EPA reductions. That’s why a CNN/ORC poll after Mr. Trump’s February 28 speech found that 70% of Americans who watched felt more optimistic about the nation’s future, and his policies and priorities were what the country needs now.
7) If President Trump’s program, budget and personnel proposals for EPA are approved, many highly paid agency employees will lose their jobs. That’s always painful, as thousands of coal miners, power plant operators and other employees in communities impacted by heavy-handed EPA regulations can attest – and as the powerful new documentary film “Collateral Damage” demonstrates.
However, downsizing is often essential to the survival of a company – or a country. As President Obama was fond of saying, elections have consequences. Let’s hope Congress and the Trump Administration move forward on EPA restructuring, stand firmly in the face of the predictable forces of professional outrage, and do a good job explaining why these changes are absolutely essential.
Paul Driessen is senior policy analyst for the Committee For A Constructive Tomorrow (www.CFACT.org), and author of Eco-Imperialism: Green power – Black death and other books on the environment.
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Nice rant. Not that I disagree with it, but a rant.
I think there is lots of valuable info there. The “Social Justice” impact through regulations and the penalties that could be leveled through rules that no-one even realizes have been put into place is an eye opener.
Today’s Sunday Mail, a newspaper in Queensland, has an article about the death of flying schools – they now have 1200 pages of legislation to operate eg teaching people to fly an aircraft. Most are closing up under the load of paperwork required, without any commensurate improvement in operation safety etc.
During the last government shutdown, over 93% of EPA employees were deemed to be nonessential.
If they’re only cutting 20%, it’s a good start but there is plenty more fat to trim.
Good news. That’s just the kind of politicised infiltration which has corrupted the EPA away from its core function of ensuring clean water and clean air. ( ie we are NOT talking about “dirty CO2” here ).
If they were more applied to their real job instead of promoting pseudo-science as a mask for a political agenda, then we may not have had events like Flint water poisoning.
This political activist probably realised he/she/it would be the first out of the door anyway and that it would be an advantage to be the first ex-EPA employee looking for a new job that being the last one.
Old Woman of the North,
what has changed?
What is you didn’t see / didn’t wanna see /
Best regards
I think it was EricPeters that I was reading that some VW exec is facing 100+ year prison penalty for the emission cheat. There is absolutely no victim here excepting said exec. You can get a lesser sentence committing murder. I would probably last about 30 seconds as a federal judge. Get your ass (mule) out of my court and the horse it rode in on.
If there ever was a need for a rant, it’s now. RANT ON!!!
We have
“climate change”, aka “global warming”
“biodiversity”
“sustainability”
“environmental justice” and
“social justice”.
None of these can be defined in any intelligent way regarding their application. They are all targets that are constantly moving, as they fit whatever goal the progressives have that day.
But, things they all have in common is the contention that
1) we have to give up our rights and freedoms to comply, regulations rather than law,
2) we have to reduce our stand of living to comply, getting ahead becomes a selfish goal,
3) we have to believe unquestioningly what the “scientists/authorities” claim, who are we to question them,
4) we have to allow our wealth to be stolen and given to others, keeping your own money is greed, and
5) we are expected to believe that the poor will be helped by this redistribution, when, in fact, it just serves to keep them poor and helpless.
“Justice” is apparently served when school systems drop the A–F grading system and go to Pass/Fail. It is evil and not fair for grade transcripts to allow schools and colleges to judge students, deciding that one is better than another. Anyone who applies to college should be accepted, right? Admissions Offices are simply not practicing “social justice.”
The UK has free college and “students” spend all four to six years vacationing, demanding that courses be entertaining rather than challenging. They did have to limit the number of years that one could stretch their college career out to. One university, the University of Manchester, is not free and a tuition is required. It is telling that their graduates are the most employable graduates in all the UK. Having skin in the game in terms of a real investment by oneself, relatives, or lending institution makes a big difference in how well students focus in class.
Right On Higley, the EPA has been catering to the same crowd as Greenpeace for a while now. They push the micromanagement of landowners’ rights as a necessity of survival.
Shake that big old tree and see what rotten fruit falls out. Mix it in with the dog shit and rakings and uneaten leftovers and let it all decompose over a year or so. After a while, having been steamed and digested in it’s own juices, mix it in with the soil of the garden and it will produce beautiful, healthy produce again.
Weird, Tom–“rant”, by definition, means to talk loudly and in a way that shows anger. It can also mean to talk nonsense.
I don’t see where Paul’s post was loud or nonsense–indeed, it was accurate and made 100% sense.
Now, if you can point out where there’s any “nonsense”, please do so.
Otherwise, I’d have to call your comment a rant.
Alright then, “jeremiad” instead of rant.
90% BS, 10% accurate. I suspect anyone cutting and pasting could do better.
To get into this discussion again, “rant” was not quite what I meant. It was over the top, pep-rally in style, and preaching to the choir. I try to overcome my tendency to ramble on, and overdid it in this case, and I was much to brief to be clear. I mostly agree with the sentiments of the post, but think the tone was a bit off.
I think this a splendid and long overdue description of what leftists have done to EPA. It also points out the level of support or eliminating deliberately false and harmful regulations. It also shines light on the horrible punishments EPA can impose outside the legal system, i.e. without due process.
Thank you Paul Driessen for a great job.
Hope you have time to address similar issues in other agencies.
Ah, who is TOMHALLA ?
Tom Halla,
“Tom Halla on March 11, 2017 at 4:57 pm
Nice rant.
Not that I disagree with it, but a rant.”
__________________________________________
What’s on Your mind.
Tom, you are obviously naive on what a rant is. Check out the activist advocacy groups some time.
For example, check out almost anything Joe Romm says.
I would classify those as hissy fit spew sessions and nothing to do with what would be considered “a rant”. They don’t state facts, they don’t make you think, they don’t make you laugh (well sometimes just due to the total pathetic level they sink to).
Not a single one of them are rants in a Carlin’esque way.
Pauk D is a professional BS artist. He writes for a living and fortunately for him regulations do not apply.
“An absence of intent to violate the law, …., is no excuse.”
The easiest part of producing something is following regulations. However, when regulations become political the purpose is to put people out of work.
For example, Obama’s was on coal. Those regulations will not stand up to court challenges.
“…when regulations become political the purpose is to put people out of work.”
Don’t forget Thatcher’s (nuclear) war on coal, that was a classic example, meant to crush the miners union.
“Don’t forget Thatcher’s (nuclear) war on coal, that was a classic example, meant to crush the miners union.”
Actually, it was Crazy Arthur Scargill’s attempt to crush Thatcher’s Conservative Government. He commenced in the Spring after a mild winter when coal stocks at power stations were at an all time high and after Jim Callaghan aided and abetted by Comrade Viscount (call me “Tony”) Sir Anthony Wedgwood Benn Bart. had already closed two thirds of uneconomical British coal mines and put two thirds of British miners out of work, mostly with little or no compensation. During that strike, members of the the Miners’ Union – aided and abetted by at least one Labour Party official – was responsible for a number of atrocities including dropping paving stones off motorway bridges, causing at least one fatality.
For obvious reasons he lost very spectacularly, and as a result of the Miners’ union preventing essential maintenance of the remaining efficient, productive pits, they were irreversibly damaged and the miners they had employed lost their jobs.
That is the true story, the version promulgated by the Left Wing is radically different.
The best way to handle this EPA behemoth,is close it down.Every state,has their own “Version”of the EPA,quite capable of looking after their own patch.Wasn’t it one of Nixons EO’s?Just give all the”Leftards”the DCM (don’t come Monday)just like “THEY”did to everyone else.
Time for a “frame off restoration” of a 47 year-old relic.
Rants are great. Especially when they show facts and make you think about things. I would bet serious money that Paul Driessen was influenced by George Carlin (The all time king of rants that make you think).
So does the grifter just not work week-ends at all?
Definite reduction in the comedy factor.
If the grifter did not exist Anthony would have to invent him just to drive traffic.
(Not that Anthony would ever stoop to such tricks).
Trump’s proposed budget was declared DOA by leading Republican members the day it was released. It has approximately zero chance of being enacted. Only the Congress can enact a budget, and only Congress can enact the actual agency appropriations bills, which though initiated in the GOP-controlled House must still gain 60 votes for approval in the Senate.
Trump has laid down a marker, and I do expect that the GOP leadership in the Senate will at least attempt to cut the appropriations for EPA, but it is impossible to gain 60 votes … most likely not even 51 votes is attainable for major appropriations cut to EPA because few Republicans are running to destroy the EPA, or could survive re-election if they did, because the public overwhelmingly supports environmental protection over economic growth.
Gallup has been polling this question for over three decades. The most recent polling in 2016 shows 56% of the public supports environmental protection over economic growth vs. 37% who say otherwise.
In Gallup’s 2016 poll, respondents were asked: Do you think the US Government is spending too little, too much, or about the right amount on environmental protection?
The response was 12% said too much, 57% said too little, 29% said about right, and only 2% had no opinion.
Trump is playing to his base, but if the GOP leadership in Congress were to follow his lead, they know they will legislate themselves out of a job come next year’s mid-term elections. Precisely what the GOP did the last time they were in control with a GOP President … and precisely what the Democrats did the last time they controlled Congress and had a Dem President.
What did the polling say about the last round of elections?
Paul
Thanks for giving me a great overview of what the EPA has accomplished, what they should keep their noses out of, and how they have failed.
Mac
World Resources Institute, Washington, D.C.
WRI Board includes:
William D. Ruckelshaus
James Gustave Speth
Christiana Figueres
Plus others.
http://www.wri.org/about/board
Speaking of keeping their noses out of…
I didn’t see mentioned in the article (maybe I missed it) the growth over time of US State-level environmental agencies that duplicate many EPA functions involving local environmental issues. So, that’s another reason why cutting the EPA significantly will be good for all of us without the environment getting raped by the evil big bad corporations. Here’s a link:
https://www.epa.gov/home/health-and-environmental-agencies-us-states-and-territories
Yup, extremely bloated state environmental agencies.
The WV DEP currently lists 1,648 supervisory positions, and given the fact they are all “politically” appointed (hired) positions then there is probably an average of ten (10) subservient employees for every supervisor. To wit:
WEST VIRGINIA DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION
EMPLOYEE DIRECTORY AND EMPLOYEE SCHEDULES
http://www.dep.wv.gov/documents/employeeaddress.pdf
Thanks, Boulder. I have an example of just this thing:
An industrial site that takes water from a river was forced to add a treatment plant to remove manganese from one of its discharges back to the river. This was because the national EPA forced the local state environmental department to put it in the discharge permit. The impact of manganese? It can stain porcelain (no health impact). Where is the nearest public water intake? Seventeen miles downriver. Where does the manganese comes from? The river. The permit requirement is much lower than what is in the river.
Now to add insult to injury, the state is revising the standard and removing manganese from its list for future permits. Impact on the site? They still have to comply because of the “no backsliding” rule, which means you can’t stop treatment once it is begun. So a new industry can move right next door and not have comply with that standard.
Please send duct tape.
Oeman- another example in Louisiana. Regs on toxic waste site restoration demands the soil to have a lower concentration of lead than levels found naturally in the state’s soil, so they had to import dirt from another area to meet the regs. Just absurd.
Yes, it is important to recognise the progress made since the 60s and 70s , no one wants or has the intention of backtracking on those achievements. A core EPA is needed to ensure we keep up with those achievements. That should probably be provided by state EPAs.
Sadly, as often happens, what starts out good goes bad. Greenpeace is another fine example.
Now the EPA has become subversive political movement within government which is seriously over-reaching its authority. The only effective solution at this point is probably to dissolve the federal EPA altogether.
+100
Samuel C Cogar: count 823 entries in that West Virginia EPA address book!!!
823!!
+10
Rather like labor unions. Once their original goals have been accomplished and codified into law, they expand their scope to justify their continued existence, along with their paychecks.
It only over-reaches a small amount….
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/14/armed-epa-agents-in-alaska-shed-light-on-70-fed-agencies-with-armed-divisions.html
and
http://www.naturalnews.com/054340_EPA_swat_teams_government_thugs_food_freedom.html
steverichards1984 – March 12, 2017 at 6:47 am
Steve Richards, …… I simply counted the names on the 1st page …… and then multiplied by the “# of pages” ……. except for the last page, which I counted the name thereon and added to my sum total.
Steve, maybe you need to manually re-count those names because a multiplication error of 50% (1,648 – 823 = 825) seems highly unlikely to me.
Excellent article. Many thanks.
likewise
I agree – excellent!
I get ditching the carbon and social justice garbage.
I don’t get the dramatic cuts to seemingly legitimate programs such as initiatives restoring the Great Lakes, Chesapeake Bay, etc.
I’ll bet if you look into it…there are probably dozens of other government agencies already doing them
He’s cutting out some duplicity
I think you mean “duplication”. “Duplicity” means dishonesty. Fortunately, Pruitt is cutting that out at the EPA as well.
,,play on words
You almost got it
. . . probably dozens of other agencies already doing the same thing . . .
Maybe hundreds, even.
***
If a bureaucrat — talking about one ensconced in the bowls of Washington here — does a good job, mediocre job, poor job, or just sits at his/her desk all day and does nothing, to whom would it matter?
Not the public.
Bureaucrats live in a nether world and have no concept of what it’s like to work in a job where a supervisor down the hall can step into your office anytime and say “_____, can I see you for a minute?”
Nor do they depend upon their product or service for their profit.
So . . . who would who would stay up all night with a sick cow that the government owned?
Answer: Nobody
In the real world of course, it would be the cow’s owner.
All about two systems of thinking here.
What the bureaucrat depends on is the government’s pay check.
Remember when the federal agencies began buying millions of rounds of ammunition and rifles with silencers? Why would government agencies and bureaucrats need those?
Multiplicity of duplicity ?
I think the word we’re looking for is “redundancy”.
How many Federal employees does it take to change a light bulb?
One to hold the bulb, and a dozen to turn the ladder.
Wrusssr: at the risk of offending others with different opinions of the Second Amendment, after extensive reading of the history of the time, in my opinion it resulted from this: there were voluntary militias formed of freemen who owned their own weapons for hunting and protection. They were well-regulated, in the old definition of the word, their guns were well-maintained, worked properly and accurately (like a “well-regulated” clock), the men knew how to use them, and they had fresh ammo. Then there were militias formed by those who lived in cities where arms were only allowed to be kept by the city government in armories. When removed from the armories, those weapons were broken, rusted, and badly maintained. The ammo was old, damp, and moldy. The people were not trained in their use or proper maintenance. All this is well documented, along with disparagement of such militias. Thus, the Second Amendment reads exactly as you would expect it to address this specific problem – don’t trust the government to maintain anything.
The fewer responsibilities we devolve to government, the safer we will be.
In my 20+ years in environmental engineering…haven’t seen it. Army Corps has some responsibilities with the Great Lakes, but it has an almost entirely different focus. Otherwise it’s EPA-funded and managed programs with the work performed by universities and consultants. The Chesapeake Bay Program has been around for over 30 yrs, and the EPA is the only federal entity involved. Puget Sound, Gulf of Mexico, etc, are similar in my experience.
You can “bet” all you want, but assuming or hoping that it is the case is not exactly appropriate.
Climate change/resiliency has been squeezed into those programs and tainted them, but it’s a tiny amount.
“The Chesapeake Bay Program is a unique regional partnership that has led and directed the restoration of the Chesapeake Bay since 1983. The Chesapeake Bay Program partners include the states of Maryland, Pennsylvania, Delaware, New York, West Virginia and Virginia; the District of Columbia; the Chesapeake Bay Commission, a tri-state legislative body; the Environmental Protection Agency, representing the federal government; and participating citizen advisory groups”
http://www.chesapeakebay.net/about
The so-called “Chesapeake Bay Program” extorts money from Maryland citizens ($60 a yr & certainly soon to increase) who have septic systems anywhere in the drainage to the Bay, even tho there isn’t the slightest evidence that such systems affect the Bay.
When a job is done, scaling back is standard procedure.
How would MarkW know about SOP involving a job? Unless his job is commenting on WUWT, I detect no evidence of experience with anything.
Mark,
That is standard business practice, but not for government agencies. What they do is redefine the “job” so that not only do they not have to scale back, they must expand. The founding fathers warned us of this tendency. Why don’t we (as a society) ever listen?
Retired,
Comparing the total information content of all your comments here with Mark’s, I would have to conclude that he is far more knowledgeable on just about every subject than you. And by a significant margin.
I think MarkW had a job at Sandia Laboratories at one time. Something to do with the climate, if I recall correctly.
Poor old Kit, my personal troll is really sucking hind tit when it comes to intelligence.
It really is sad the way you decide that anyone who threatens your families source of income must be stupid. Or at least they must be shut down.
Why don’t you go back to playing with the grand kids, at least that way, you can spend your with people who don’t mind when you embarrass yourself.
Crying about cuts…
…and not one whimper when they grew this monster
That’s the way government works….bigger and bigger and bigger
Just like socialism and communism
Latitude:
It seems that your post is intended to distract the discussion from its subject of EPA budget reductions.
Your post says
You could have stopped writing after you had written these observations,
“Crying about cuts… …and not one whimper when they grew this monster”
but you did not.
You added two irrelevant and unsubstantiated assertions as a ‘red herring’.
Assuming your first assertion is true when you say,
That’s the way government works….bigger and bigger and bigger”
then your other assertion is not true when you write,
“Just like socialism and communism”.
This is because your first assertion is true of all forms of government or it is not true.
Therefore, “the way government works” cannot be “LIKE” socialism and communism because they ARE forms of government. In fact, for the same reason, it cannot be “like” capitalism, or fascism, or any other form of government which you could have chosen to mention.
And if you want to say “socialism and communism” are philosophies and not forms of government then they are what they are so they can change but they cannot get “bigger and bigger and bigger”.
Simply, your post consists of two unsubstantiated assertions and only one of them can be true.
However, your post does provide a useful example that can be cited of a perfect ‘red herring’ intended to deflect a discussion from its subject.
Richard
Gosh, Richard. Thank you for saving us from Latitude…or something.
Your post reads like you got lost on your way to lecturing a third grade class on being pedantic.
Latitude’s statement that EPA got bigger and bigger is accurate;
Latitude’s statement that socialism gets bigger and bigger (ref Venezuela) is valid;
I dom’t see what you’re getting so defensive about.
If you need a “safe zone” WUWT comments section is the wrong place to be.
It seems like Richard has captured a ‘rant’ quite effectively.
yep….a little bit of a rant
…with a lot of truth in it
Slowly growing a government agency…and giving them more and more power….like the EPA
..is exactly how governments go from being “for the people” to “for the government”
You could call it socialist or communist….call it anything you want
The end result is the same
Under normal speech, it is normal to give additional examples of the topic you are discussing.
As such, it’s not a red herring.
It may or may not be true, and you have admitted that it is true.
MarkW:
I objected to a ‘red herring’ and gave a clear and factually accurate explanation of how and why it is a ‘red herring’.
You have jumped in with another ‘red herring’ that – as is your usual practice – is a falsehood.
Clearly, you really cannot control yourself when you have any opportunity to provide a falsehood .
Richard
richardscourtney
Your commentary is generally on-topic and worth reading (whether or not I agree with it). Your comments in this thread fail that test.
I object to your ad hominems and mean spirit. It would be much appreciated if you behaved like an adult when communicating to other adults. WUWT commenters frequently disagree with each other (sometimes strongly) without appearing to throw a temper tantrum.
Richard: I get it. A red herring is anything you don’t want to talk about.
“Clearly, you really cannot control yourself …”
Mmmm.
Latitude is one of the most concise WUWT commenters. His posts usually had less than five lines, more often one or two. You, on the other hand, write endless posts nobody have the patience to read. I read the first paragraph and I skip the rest, like in this case.
Do not bother to reply.
urederra:
I am replying to your specious post for the benefit of others.
If you thought my posts to be of no consequence then you would not have bothered to write your post I am replying.
Lucidity and accuracy matter. Incompleteness pretending to be conciseness also matters but for the opposite reason.
Funny how you read my second and third paragraphs, isn’t it?
Richard
Richard,please tell us why the EPA needs to be armed with weapons fitted with silencers?Enquiring minds would like to know.
richardscourtney
You have som serious homework to do before accusing others of misbehaving.
I doubt very many of us reading your stuff see it as “for the benefit of others” – it reads like an ego-rant.
Javert Chip:
You say
I would appreciate your saying which contributors to this thread you think to be human adults and not bots.
For example, please provide some evidence that MarkW is not programed to distract almost every WUWT thread by spouting irrelevant nonsense.
Richard
Latitude – March 11, 2017 at 5:37 pm
“YUP”, the total number of US federal government employees increases quite a bit every two (2) years …… and increases quite a lot every four (4) years …… simply because all of the newly-elected and re-elected politicians have to “make good” on their promises to “find a job for” the person or persons that their family, friends, political supporters and/or political donors demanded for supporting their “winning” candidacy.
Hey Sam…
People in this country take too much for granted..because we are the only country coming from a position of “for the people”…
The countries we are told to emulate are coming from a position of Kings, rulers, etc.
Socialism/communism etc “for the government” was a step up for them…
…it is a major step down for us
The US was blessed in the past with government which didn’t grow and keep on growing. That changed in 1932, if not before.
The federal government had expanded before, under the tyrant Lincoln during the Civil War, but both Republican and Democrat (Cleveland) administrations kept it limited thereafter. Liberal Republican Teddy Roosevelt enlarged it some, then Democrat Wilson was even more, by creating the Fed and passing amendments allowing income tax and direct election of senators. But Harding, Coolidge, and, at first Hoover, reined the rampaging monster in. After the Crash and onset of the Depression, however, Hoover adopted activist policies. Then FDR opened the socialist floodgates, causing the Depression to worsen.
Latitude, …. brilliantly defined.
This the job the EPA should be doing
https://www.google.com.ph/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiqov2-6s_SAhUEJJQKHZpXCE0QFggYMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2013%2F04%2F14%2Fsunday-review%2Fthink-those-chemicals-have-been-tested.html&usg=AFQjCNE-Eq1LJzgn9Kv9mGYfb7G_9XrRYg&sig2=cpkMnhSAS8V3JAAaPFZTHg
Opening statement from your article:
This opening statement is flat out wrong.
The rest of the article is an anti-chemical screed, full of nonsense.
This stuff is old, very, very old.
A Blast From The Past:
This stuff is so old. It recalls my days as an undergraduate Chem. major, many decades ago. The education majors (of all people) would shriek at us, calling us Corporate Polluters, Poisoning Babies, Murdering Children! To the Education majors, the Chem majors were Corporate Baby Killers. The Biology and Physics majors were also held in great contempt, but their greatest hatred and fear was held for the Chem. majors.
We used to wonder what on Earth is going on in the Education Dept. We were amused that students, of at least (presumably) nominal intelligence would fall for such anti-science nonsense. We were not amused with the realization that these students could vote. We were even less amused with the idea that most of them would end up reproducing.
The New York Times is still at it.
*sigh*
“The monkeys write.”
TonyL,
It’s been known, unfortunately, for a long time that the dumbest people, the ones who barely managed to get into college, become education majors. And you (general you, not you personally) wonder what’s wrong with society today?
Even in my day, the saying was: “Those who can, do; those who can’t, teach.” Education was seen by many as a non-discipline no longer even searching for a subject. Methods courses taught by college profs who had never (since their own grade school days) set foot in an elementary or high-school classroom; curriculum-and-instruction courses taught for the sake of the theories (“enriched need arousal,” etc.); college graduates who could spout polysyllabic theoretical talk about “education” but whose grasp of the subject they were purportedly qualified to teach was insecure at best–all of these made the schools of education more or less a laughing-stock as long ago as the 1950s. I was in music. Some of the music ed majors were real musicians, gifted, talented, and dedicated to teaching children music; but many more were not, and there was no way to weed them out. As long as they passed their methods and theoretical courses, they were destined for the public schools. The wonder is that their students received any real education at all. During my years of college teaching (1964 to 2007) I witnessed a slow decline in the preparedness of the college freshmen I taught, and an increase in the amount of remedial work they required in order to reach even a minimum proficiency. There are plenty of ways to account for that decline, but deficiencies in the subject-matter areas of their learning was surely a major contributor. (I deeply honor those truly-qualified teachers who stuck it out for their whole careers in teaching increasingly unruly children; such teachers showed dedication that the general public will never truly know about.)
TonyL, it is the FDA that regulates consumer products.
We also have the Consumer Products Safety Commission, looking out for us all:
https://www.cpsc.gov/
Stuartlarge,
Please do not insult professional chemists who introduce chemical products in response to the needs expressed by normal people. Chemophobia is rampant, it is full of hate. The EPA is a harm to science when it singles out man-made chemicals for punishment, because the EPA should know that Nature has given us many more, much more toxic chemicals than chemists have created (warfare efforts excepted). Try anthrax, try eating the skins of unripe potatos, try a variety of mushrooms, try the elements arsenic, cadmium, mercury, thallium and their various natural compounds.
The Toxic Substances Control Act was a child of a 1960s scare, a man made scare like global warming, that forecast an epidemic of cancers caused by man-made chemicals. The chemicals were real, the cancers were not. It was a large, mainly governmental scam. But the Acts and Regs stayed on the books, as bureaucrats work to ensure, to hinder yet more future progress. The plan by President Trump to revoke two old regs for each new one proposed is beautifully simple. We can but hope it is done properly.
But please, work actively to combat the chemophobia that is now trendy, though false, and seemingly taught in schools in the form that synthetic chemicals are evil. Please consider that your professional chemist is just another ordinary citizen with no prior determination to harm society by evil deeds. I majored in Chemistry, many friends likewise and we certainly have no intent to use our skills to harm others. As might be expected, we work to help society and have pride in our successes.
As an aside, ask yourself if people within the EPA who imagine and write and administer regulations are really able to be classed as ’employed’. When the EPA increases these numbers, is it really reducing national unemployment? Is it a benefit to the economy? I think not. Compare the output to a genuine worker such as a farm person driving a harvester gathering crop for the tangible benefit if many others. I feel that reduction in EPA employee numbers will inevitably lead to greater national productivity, quite a benefit.
Geoff
Geoff
Thank you Geoff!
I am so sick of this chemophobia I could scream and I’m not a chemist, I’m a biologist.
Anytime someone claims “all natural, plant based” is so MUCH healthier because its plants and not those dirty man made chemicals I remind them that cyanide is also all natural plant based.
They normally stop talking after that.
I’m allergic to all things natural. Raw fruits and veggies? Can’t eat most of them. Fancy plant extracts in the shampoo? Can’t use it. When people try to tell me that natural is better, I tell them, “unless you’re allergic to it.”
My personal motto is “pure chemicals, all the way.” And no, it’s not a joke.
Momma M,
My sympathies, it must be terrible.
Here in Oz we see many more new school children each year with allergies, especially to nuts. It is serious and I think as yet unexplained. Nature can make it hard to define ‘natural’.
Geoff
Too many well-intentioned parents not letting their little ones play in the dirt, while slathering them with anti-bacterial this and SPF30 that. (The last one may not contribute to allergies, but it does contribute to Vitamin D deficiency.)
Dirty doesn’t automatically mean bad. Baby mammoths (and probably baby elephants today) would eat their mothers’ dung to propagate the symbiotic bacteria needed to digest their food as adults.
Actually, Geoff, it sounds worse than it is. I manage my allergies fairly well. Moving to a semi-desert climate 13 years ago took care of my hay fever, even if it means I need to use gallons of lotion on my dry skin. Tradeoffs. And cortisone cream/ointment is a Godsend. I am soooo thankful for that!
By the way – you misread my name. It’s Monna.
Wonderfully put Geoff. I owe my life to chemists and scientists who found ways to prevent infections and treat infections. Many people do – although they won’t admit it. While there will always be those who try to cut corners and dump untreated effluent into the lakes and rivers, onto the land, or into the air, most people today are more than willing to maintain a cleaner mode of manufacture, and don’t want to see rivers catching fire or lakes being unusable and unfishable. Some regulations and laws are needed to keep those who would take advantage in check, but the regs, as they stand now, are well beyond maintaining a fairly clean environment and, in a lot of cases, insist on standards far higher than exist in nature to begin with. I won’t start on the “all natural all the time” set of beliefs, just agree with you that much of what is deadly and incurable/untreatable is pure nature, purely natural.
Yes, rattlesnake venom is natural, so are mosquito and tick bites, bedbugs too as well many other things we have worked hard to overcome. Can you imagine what any major city smelled like during horse and buggy days?
Mary E – March 12, 2017 at 12:13 pm
“HA”, on a similar note ……. I always tell people that I am extremely grateful to Adolph Hitler and the Nazi Party for their dastardly deeds during WWII because I would surely not be alive today if not for penicillin …… that I am sure has saved my life at least 3 or 4 times during the past 70 years.
Before penicillin, …… your life expectancy was highly dependent upon sulfur or sulfa drugs and mercury compounds.
Better Living Through Chemistry:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=better+living+through+chemistry+old+advertisements&&view=detail&mid=2DC89241681A710214A32DC89241681A710214A3&FORM=VRDGAR
The 98% figure is dubious. I think it was closer to 97%. link
That 97% is becoming ubiquitous 🙂
Uh, Snopes seemingly turned every stone, but never did proclaim what percentage of counties Trump actually won. I once reckoned around 85% but don’t feel like running it down again. 98% is far too generous , that much I’m sure of.
According to Associated Press: Clinton won 487 counties nationwide, compared with 2,626 for President-elect Donald Trump. That’s 84.4% by county.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/fb5a5f7da21d460bbffb6985cb01cb2c/trending-story-clinton-won-just-57-counties-untrue
Boulder Skeptic
That’s closer to 97% than a 97%scientific consensus on CAGW
“That’s 84.4% by county” I checked and agree with this figure. Still, Trump lost the popular vote since the lowest populated 2000 counties have about as many people as the most populated 100 counties. (Numbers not exact, terms and conditions apply)
Silly Democratic Party talking point. The election was contested on the basis of electoral votes, and the Democrats oppose any effort to clean up the voter rolls. Some of those three million may even be alive, and citizens, and voting in only one state.
“Silly Democratic Party talking point. The election was contested on the basis of electoral votes…” Do you mean electoral college votes? That is true, but to call the number raised here (number of counties won) a democratic talking point is wrong.
I always like what Paul writes. Very much to the point, well informed and beautifully written. Let’s hope our politicians listen.
has the site http://climatescience.org/ closed down ? Thats gavin Schdmit Mann
You have the wrong URL.
http://www.realclimate.org/
I have a friend who is an electrical contractor. He kept a paint recycling barrel at the office for the company and any employees who wanted to use it. The EPA recently decided that training would be required to pour paint into the barrel. Twenty bucks to train, time lost, paper work to be filled out and so on. Not to mention the six figure a year EPA person who created the reg. My friend told them to pick up the barrel. Now they’ll just mix old paint with cat litter and throw it in the dumpster. Imagine the thousands of times this gets repeated across the country. Trump could probably cut the EPA by half with no bad consequences.
Good example.
Dividing the $8.1 billion annual budget by the 15,000 headcount gives $540,000 per employee. That’s over half a million dollars per bureaucrat. I managed a technology center of similar people in industry (we even sometimes challenged the EPA on technical grounds), at a fraction of that amount.
From working in a government department and many lrage private organizations, my estimate is that government departments are about 10% efficient, and large private organizations about 40%. That makes the private sector 4 times as effective.
Yea, Tom, but you probably don’t throw money away on third parties (e.g.: Energy dept to Solyndra). You have shareholders, so you probably actually have to do something useful.
If EPA wanted, it could have stopped the Flint water disaster; they didn’t want to, or at least not bad enough.
Never let a crisis go to waste and it’s corollary make as many crisis as you can.
Climate “Science” on Trial; Snowflakes are Staffing the EPA
https://co2islife.wordpress.com/2017/03/11/climate-science-on-trial-snowflakes-are-staffing-the-epa/
Climate “Science” on Trial; The Whole is Greater Than the Sum of Its Pieces
https://co2islife.wordpress.com/2017/03/11/climate-science-on-trial-the-whole-is-greater-than-the-sum-of-its-pieces/
“Snowflakes are Staffing the EPA”
How long does it take snowflakes to settle and form into blocks of immovable ice in the EPA?
Well, they at least had 8 years. I wonder if the ice is deep enough to take a core sample and measure the CO2. We can measure the date that way.
GWB was a warmist too. Before that,, 8 years of Slick Willie.
So 24 years of “snowflake” accumulation at the EPA.
EPA: not so much a juggernaut
more like a glacier.
Lets see what actually happens. Fanatasy just does not not deliver in my real world.
Trump won 84.3% 2623/3112.
I’ve seen oil companies reduce their budget and technical staff 25% more times than I care to think about. In spite of the devastating reductions, they still delivered the products, and put an end to “peak oil” hysteria.
Exactly. This is what leftists cannot grasp. When money is tight, you don’t hire more staff to balance the budget, you sack some!
+1. I’ve lost a couple of jobs because of change and the economy (and don’t work in the oil industry). Those bureaucrats have a mindset that they are owed jobs for life.
If that were true, no-one would ever borrow to invest . Like most things related to economics, your point is a simplistic approach which rarely reflects reality.
I love it when socialists pretend to understand the economy.
Gareth
I can’t begin to understand your comment. Are you responding to Jer0me or Krudd?.
I’ve known peak oil was going to happen sometime in the future, but I stayed in the industry because it seemed to be very far off. In the late 1980’s I realized exploration for oil was starting to yield poor results, so I suggested to management they should cut oil exploration budgets (I felt a 50% cut was warranted) and shift to natural gas even if marketing would be delayed one or two decades. By the late 1990’s I felt we should strive to lock in as much heavy oil as possible, because developing conventional oil was getting a lot tougher. By the late 2000’s it was easy to see conventional oil had peaked, and that heavy oil required high prices. So I began to recommend capture of whatever molecules we could lease, even if we didn’t know exactly how they would be produced.
Today, in 2017, it’s clear to me the oil industry is at the end of the road. Peak oil is definitely approaching, and there aren’t any new and wonderful technologies I can see which will allow the industry to increase crude oil and condensate production as forecasted by international agencies, the IPCC, etc. I’m not sure exactly when peak oil will happen, but it’s increasingly clear it will probably be soon, definitely before 2040.
The truth is that even to increase crude oil and condensate production by 10%, to slightly less than 90 mmbopd, we would need to hire hundreds of thousands of new employees, return thousands of rigs back to work, use huge amounts of steel and other resources, and get paid over $100 per barrel, and then much more as time goes by. We could drill several tens of thousands of horizontal wells in the USA, and the same amount elsewhere, and yet we simply won’t be able to avoid peak oil. The price we demand will be so high the market won’t stand it. Poor countries will simply reduce demand and their economies will go to hell. And we will see efficiency and alternative technologies take over the market. This is pretty much set in stone, it’s the way nature and market forces work.
For 30 years, peak oil has been just around the corner.
There is no way oil will be sustained above $100 a barrel until the coal runs out. Coal to liquid technology is profitable at half of that and it is a lot easier to get hold of coal. Queensland could become an exporter of oil products instead of coal well below $100/bbl.
Sasol is building two plants in China and there is a rumour the Chinese are building a direct conversion plant in inner Mongolia. New tech.
CTL technology produces sulphur-free products, if you want. There is no need to treat ‘natural oil’ as the only way to make hydrocarbon products.
Crispin, the most recent Exxon estimate for coal to pil via Fischer Tropsch catalysis is about $180/bbl.
Fernando
With all due respect, sounds like you were wrong in the 1980’s, you’re wrong now and you’re probably wrong about “peak oil” before 2040. At least you’re consistent.
You & Paul Ehrlich have a lot in common. Maybe you guys should do lunch.
On the money Paul. This is the he time for clear thinking and sure follow through. Unlike the Bush era when we could have done better Trump seems inclined to deliver in a big way. I’ll do my little bit to help him.
Any EPA budget that is higher than the Mayberry R.F.D. sherrif’s department budget needs to be dramatically cut.
The EPA is what the Declaration of Independence was talking about when it wrote:
“He has erected a Multitude of new Offices, and sent hither Swarms of Officers to harrass our People, and eat out their Substance.”
We are tigerly taxed and bearly represented by those lyin’.
=================
The EPA just dictated rules for the states to implement and who did all the real work anyway.
Eliminate the EPA
Eliminate 99% of the EPA.
97%, surely?
“EPA alone is responsible for well over $353 billion of the cumulative annual federal regulatory bill”
This is confusingly worded. Is it cumulative or annual? Is cumulative a typo? Cumulative in some sense other than time? Annual in some sense other than for one year? The context suggests one of the first two, but stop making me think.
An easy way to fire the “right” 20%:
Make everyone take Environmental Re-education courses which debunk common Green lies and paranoia.
Those who refuse, disrupt, or fail the exam can be dismissed, which improves moral for the rest also.
If there is any justification for clipping the EPA ridiculous waste it is “Climate Justice.”
Directly from the EPA.gov website
I challenge anyone/everyone to go to the link and try to figure out WTF is climate justice..
$2Billion in cuts is just not enough when so much is waste.
Absolutely bloody SPOT ON.
Let the waling begin. Drain that swamp.
Well, at least they aren’t doing “muslim outreach”…ARE THEY?
…now that we know Muslim is a race….it’s racist
Envionmental justice is the idea that putting jobs in poor communities is bad for poor people.
joelobryan – “I challenge anyone/everyone to go to the link and try to figure out WTF is climate justice..”
Ok. Climate Justice: unelected & unaccountable EPA bureaucrats make up rules/regulations and piss away mucho taxpayer money. All this is done in a manner that in no way improves the quality of Flint, MI drinking water.
How’s that?
+10
Would’ve been more, but You forgot the Climate Justice delivered to the Animas River compliments of the EPA.
http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/knau/files/201602/gold-king-mine-spill.jpg
A long overdue downsizing, a desperately needed refocusing of the EPA. Thank you, Mr. Trump and Mr. Pruitt.
Now, for Congress. We need legislation striking CO2 from the clean air act. We also need a withdrawal from the UNFCCC. Please act, and act soon.
A long overdue downsizing, a desperately needed refocusing of the EPA. Thank you, Mr. Trump and Mr. Pruitt.
Now, for Congress. We need legislation striking CO2 from the clean air act. We also need a withdrawal from the UNFCCC. Please act, and act soon.