What happened in the meeting? Nobody knows for sure – but in the wake of a one hour meeting between Al Gore and Donald Trump, Gore has promised an “unprecedented” surge in climate activism, to protect a renewable energy revolution which he also claims will “happen anyway”.
Al Gore: climate change threat leaves ‘no time to despair’ over Trump victory
Former vice-president expects backlash from environmentalists against Trump and hopes Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton will join fight.
The urgent threat of climate change means there is “no time to despair” over the election of Donald Trump, according to former vice-president Al Gore, who hopes that Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton will join an escalated climate campaign against the president-elect.
Gore told the Guardian he remained hopeful Trump would reverse some of his positions on climate change but predicted an unprecedented backlash from environmentalists over the next four years.
…
Trump, who has called climate change a hoax, has pledged to withdraw the US from the Paris climate accord, dismantle the Clean Power Plan, slash renewable energy funding and somehow prop up the ailing US coal industry.
His advisers have also advocated cutting climate research at Nasa and completely exiting the international climate effort.
Gore said such threats mean there will “likely be a huge upsurge in climate activism. I’m encouraged that there are groups that are digging in to work even harder. Those groups working in the courts are even more important now; those organizing on campuses are even more important now.
“My message would be that despair is just another form of denial. There is no time to despair. We don’t have time to lick our wounds, to hope for a different election outcome.
“We have to win this struggle and we will win it; the only question is how fast we win. But more damaged is baked into the climate system every day, so it’s a race against time.”
On Monday, Gore spent around an hour meeting with Trump and his daughter Ivanka, who reportedly plans to speak out on climate change despite her father’s skepticism of the issue.
“I had a lengthy and very productive session with the president-elect,” Gore said, after emerging from the meeting at Trump Tower in New York City.
“It was a sincere search for areas of common ground. I had a meeting beforehand with Ivanka Trump. The bulk of the time was with the president-elect, Donald Trump. I found it an extremely interesting conversation, and to be continued, and I’m just going to leave it at that.”
…
“Regardless of what he does, a sustainable energy revolution is under way.”
…
My guess is Trump wants to find a way to defuse climate opposition, but I don’t think there is any room to manoeuvre. Any serious concessions to the climate movement would be treated by many of Trump’s supporters as a sell-out. The entrenched positions are simply too polarized.
You don’t “drain the swamp” by hiring swamp critters.
The assertions of the “inevitability” of the renewable energy revolution juxtaposed with promises of “unprecedented” climate action are noteworthy. If the green revolution is so “inevitable”, why the need for a hysterical activist response should the Trump administration cut federal support?
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If Trump removes federal support, including tax provisions, supporting “renewable energy”, such as required purchase agreements as well as outright subsides, much of the “industry” will collapse. Doing away with the Obama “Clean Power Plan” and the rest of the green atrocities instituted since 2008 would have quite an effect as well.
Appointing Ebell and the rest of the group at EPA would seem inconsistent with giving Al Gore anything more than polite conversation (I hope !).
Tom, you are correct.
Trump will sign a funding bill from congress that guts the green gravy train. Congress controls the purse.
Simply put, its going to be a green blood bath…There will be a lot of under employed ex greenies causing havoc protesting since they will have nothing else to do..
If you have to cut the budget to slow the rise of the deficit, then cutting climate research is a good place to start and nothing interesting, alarming, or dangerous is going on. There have to be millions dead in the streets by now, based on earlier predictions.
Donald Kasper “There have to be millions dead in the streets by now, based on earlier predictions.”
Exactly. And remember this bit of IPCC advice:
“We have to offer up scary scenarios… each of us has to decide the right balance between being effective and being honest.” -Stephen Schneider, lead IPCC author, 1988
So that’s just what the fearing mongering Prophets of Doom set out to do, to present their bs “scary scenarios” as:
“Entire nations could be wiped off the face of the Earth by rising sea levels if the global warming trend is not reversed by the year 2000.” -Noel Brown, ex UNEP Director, 1989
“A billion people could die from global warming by 2020.” -John Holdren, Obama’s current Science Czar, 1986
“[Inaction will cause]… by the turn of the century [2000], an ecological catastrophe which will witness devastation as complete, as irreversible as any nuclear holocaust.” -Mustafa Tolba, 1982, former Executive Director of the United Nations Environment Program
“In twenty years (2008) the West Side Highway [and thus much of Manhattan] will be under water.” -James Hansen, 1988, NASA
But what’s actually happened is … nothing. Nada. Zilch. It’s all just the same as it was. The Chicken Littles have been Crying Wolf for decades. Their bs … ain’t . going . to . happen!
I see an upsurge in part time day laborers with useless college degrees. They will need A LOT of supervision since they have no form of work ethic and you won’t be able to leave them alone shoveling gravel or clearing brush. And you damned well won’t be able to give them any form of power tools!
I just hope you are right but that all remains to be seen; I just hope this leopard does not “change his spots”.
Look, Al, Baby,
First off, what have You done personally to reduce your size Goregolplex carbon footprint?
Do you still live in an energy intensive carbon spewing Mansion?
Do you still trot around the world in a carbon spewing Private Jet?
Secondly, if you are so certain that renewables (ala solar and wind) are the way forward, then the technology shouldn’t require subsidizing by government money. No one is stopping anyone from placing solar on their rooftops or on their private land, the government simply will not be footing the bill.
There is nothing that President Elect Trump can do to make these installations illegal thereby eliminating them, they will always be an option. There will only be a change in how they are invested in.
A green bloodbath. Not another assault on Vulcans. After their home world was destroyed by the Romulan Nero, they can’t take much more.
Me thinks that Trump probably told Gore to “clean-up his act” or he will “seek” the Judicial Dogs on him come Jan 2017.
I think Trump only met with Gore to keep him away from his daughter.
Keep you friends close,,,keep your enemies closer.
Most renewables are built because of state level mandates. Nothing the Federal government can do about them.
The subsidies for renewables just reduce the cost of complying with the mandates. Removing them would just makes states that want renewables have to actually pay their full cost.
A large number of the state requirements and mandatory purchase agreements are in place to meet federal clean air standards, or really, to suck up to federal regulators. Removing the federal requirement would tend to remove many of the state rules.
Tom,
Now your are contemplating the tactics. To dismantle the state requirements, you hit upon the tangle of self energizing federal requirements.
It appears to me that you are capable of laying out the key steps to identify the key JENGA blocks to remove such to efficiently drop the whole mess.
Tom, I have read a great deal of your posts/thoughts. You should conspire to lay out an action plan and communicate it. Maybe each state needs a template? Time for you to write a plan, send it to the right people. I would not publish it here. Why inform your enemies?
Seriously.
“vboring December 6, 2016 at 6:18 am
Most renewables are built because
of state level mandates.somebody’s friend or family member got a chance to get their hands on a lot of taxpayer money.There, fixed it.
Except where commercial companies buy/install them for commercial/cost reasons.
See google’s statement today that it will move to 100% renewable electricity – and its reasons why (climate change is not top reason)
Removing them (federal subsidies) would just makes states that want renewables have to actually pay their full cost.
===============================
There is nothing quite so effective in changing policy as hitting a politician in the pocketbook.
Griffie, of course commercial/cost reasons, includes all of the state and federal subsidies and mandates.
Griff,
Do you have a link to that particular Google article?
The last thing I read regaring Google and Renewables was that they tried to prove them as a viable replacement but couldn’t make the technology function in the manner necessary to produce 100% of their needs and still be cost competative with conventional energy sources.
I looked into Solar for my house and discovered that with sufficient battery back-up and all the necessary infrasturcture (It can’t be mounted on my roof), the installation would run over $80,000 and panels would begin to degrade and require replacement before the initial expence was recovered in energy bill elimination.
Griff: So you are saying Google will be completely off-grid, no line to grid.
Let the states do what they will with regard to renewables. Great if it isn’t a federal matter. If California wants to burden its citizens with a fossil-fuel free future, fine. People have a vote, and they also have feet to vote with. Maybe they won’t find the equable (=warm) climate on the west coast is sufficient to keep them there any more.
One can hope Tom.
The point to make here is that “climate change” and its motives and operations go far beyond Green activism and fantasy. The remains of globalist expansion socialism rooted from the Soviet and beyond are compounded and invested in the phrase and what it represents.
As with “fake news”, “climate” is a massive echo chamber to control debate, academic/educational conformity along strict PC to achieve the desired political result. It goes far beyond rent seekers, hipsters and grifters. Aside from the hack MSM itself it has been a primary tool of agenda setting for the armchair western socialist culture.
Defunding is a positive but the entire background ideology of climate, settled science and fake news should be targeted for what it is since the support Trump received was directly related to the rejection of globalist totalitarian inclinations that are so well represented in all of these terms and the people who promote them. If he does half a job and allows teachers (as one example) to control the ground game of leftist/green indoctrination then the long game will be lost. I a
“If he does half a job and allows teachers (as one example) to control the ground game of leftist/green indoctrination then the long game will be lost.”
This is one of my major beefs. In the UK this unevidenced climate woo is taught as fact. It is literally rammed down the throats of our children as is a lot of other politically correct leftist garbage. Our children are being ritually abused and no one is doing anything about it. I think some kind of legal challenge is going to be required to stop political propaganda forming a major part of the school curriculum.
Cephus, you flag up a very important point.
The educational establishment in the UK is 95%+ liberal and green, and I suspect it is so in many western nations. Of course, teachers have always indoctrinated their pupils, whether it was with deep-rooted and sometimes militaristic nationalism a century ago, or religious conformity before that (and some places, e.g. Ireland, more recently as well). What has changed in the UK is the rapid and complete takeover by the left of teacher training in the 1960s and 1970s. The result was utterly devastating, and more than one generation of kids was lost to prejudice and PC – and indeed core learning was downgraded, with hundreds of thousands leaving school without ability to read or write properly.. We are still suffering the massive consequences of those terrible years today, for the brighter kids that went through it are now in charge. Unlike nationalism or religion, the new memes handed down work their way into every corner of every life, whether it be the near-universal acceptance by the kids of the climate change agenda, or the absurd obsession with ‘recycling’ as a good in itself.
It is going to take some changing. Neither Trump or Brexit is sufficient and since, in both cases, the downside may come before the upside, the revolution may easily be reversed. Keep working!
” It is literally rammed down the throats of our children”
Literally? Really?
Avail yourselves to this administration as a resource.
WUWT is no longer a dissenting voice, railing against a sick system, It is a resource of brilliant people and capable thinkers who can do something different now. I suggest offline activities wherein you smart people assemble intellectually to service a new administrative arm for the Trump administration. He is going to need ideological help from smart people. This site is a resource of such people.
It is fun to revel in the joy of the destabilized green tower of sh1t, but governance is serious and we need to help.
Where is the Trump admin going to get a reliable work force of 100s of people to get things done in the next 4 years?
Right here.
WUWT is more than Anthony’s blog, it is an effective resource to a friendly government. Let’s help Anthony do construct actions that will be durable and fundamentally toxic to the anti-human socialist operatives.
Trump has said he would remove all energy subsidies. Without a definition of subsidy, that could apply to oil/gas extraction tax breaks etc. 200k are people employed fitting solar panels and in the same demographic as coal workers. (source:BLS). I can’t see them being laid off by the next POTUS.
Trump clearly has a short attention span, and no problem switching position so the real question is who has his ear most frequently. I would guess that in a contest of courtiers, Ivanka will win. I also imagine that there will be many dismissals as the line between reality and reality show blurs.
Letting an operation write off production expenses in only a “subsidy” to a True Believer green referring to the evil fossil fuel industry.
Are you talking about the depletion allowance all resource-extracting companies (which includes mining as well as petroleum and gas producers) have been utilizing like, forever?
You realize when you’re working with a finite resource the only way to get to the next project economically is to have some tax relief. What Trump will eliminate is the actual subsidies that have been required to bring uneconomic sources of energy (primarily wind and solar) even close to the low rates offered by base-load fossil fuel sources.
Who are you going to rob to make uneconomic energy sources look viable? The tax-payer, again? It’s a signature of the Progsoc movement to ignore economic reality and live in an energy Safe Place.
Lets hope the current political correctness toward energy sources that must rely on creative accounting and rate redistribution to even begin to compete is fully exposed and eliminated.
The simplest thing to do is innovate. Hydrocarbons can be separated from carbon sources using solvents at a lower cost per barrel than any other current method. The remaining carbon can be used to make very large batteries. Such batteries make base load from any power source possible. A carbon battery can be used to make hydrocarbons derived from carbon emissions.
All this stuff is “in the lab” now, no subsidy, tax or government involvement was necessary.
The hockey stick graph itself is clearly a hoax. It was the center piece of Gore’s movie. ‘Nuff said.
The second major mistake Al Gore made was using data of Arctic sea ice versus time. Times series are not predictive graphs as time and climate are independent variables whose relationship can change at any point in time. Al never had the ability to reflectively look at why his 2014 prediction of no summer Arctic ice failed. It failed because time and ice are independent variables such that least squares trend fits do not predict outcomes. Least square works on dependent variables. As time does not make ice, those graphs were baseless. This is what Al failed to understand, and still does not understand. PIOMASS continues that tradition, predicting negative sea ice volume in the coming years with their trend fit of Arctic ice mass vs time.
Al Gores understanding is limited to money …
sasal: compounded by his statement; “Those groups working in the courts are even more important “
Yes, but the trend in arctic sea ice extent and/or volume is still down, isn’t it?
At a record low for both now, even in this winter season.
The ‘ice free arctic’ is difficult/impossible to predict precisely, you are right, but it surely is coming, alas…
The ‘ice free arctic’ is difficult/impossible to predict precisely, you are right, but it surely is coming, alas…
Sure it’s coming, Griff. Just like the time before and the time before that.
The think that Al gore understands is power. Money is one avenue to power. Getting a lot of deluded fools pushing an idea that you support is another. Gore doesn’t see a planet for humanity, he sees a planet for people like himself being supported by the servants and serfs that he will need to maintain his life style.
Griff, there never will be an “ice-free Arctic” so you really out to stop drinking the koolaid and go find a real job.
Every time the statistics move in Griffies direction, it’s proof that he’s right.
Every time the statistics don’t move in Griffies direction, it’s just weather.
Tis certainly a good thing that those cuddlie wuddlie furry wurrie Seals can birth on land and that those Rolley Polley Bears can also birth on land and hunt on land. Arctic survival for local species has definitely proven to be adaptable to ice free conditions in the past.
Probably true enough Griff but, so is the earth’s exit from this interglacial.
We cannot predict when.
Over the next few billion years, the sun is going to continue to get brighter.
So eventually, Griffie will be right.
Let the old come in as the funding subsides…
then they can blame global cooling on Trump.
I am surprised Gore didn’t invite Podesta and Steyer along for the meeting but maybe they were just to busy
working on the recounts with the Green Party .
Well maybe next time . How long do you think it took Al Gore to fill in Steyer and Podesta .
Podesta did say it isn’t over . The familiar pattern will emerge … the soft sell followed fairly quickly with the
trash talk . Deniers and Deplorables have been used …. maybe something new and catchy .
Stay away from Krypton superman they ain’t never ever going to be you or your daughters friends .
But you already knew that .
Podesta is getting ready for the black Sabbath at Palm Springs with his fellow dark angels.
Dems are still running with the Soros-Steyer billionaire’s money to control the Democratic Party.
Anyone who believes the DNC or Dems have changed due to their 2016 election shellacking can look no further than the re-election by House Dems of 76 yr old Nancy Pelosi as their minority leader.
http://dailycaller.com/2016/11/02/revealed-liberal-moneys-longterm-strategy-to-control-public-opinion-and-secure-advantageous-demographics/
Check out this ‘control the public discourse’ information as well.
http://dailycaller.com/2016/11/02/revealed-liberal-moneys-longterm-strategy-to-control-public-opinion-and-secure-advantageous-demographics/
If the solar cells, themselves, were free, central solar plants still could not be built without subsidies. That’s how bad it really is. Take a hard look at the Ivanpah plant near the California-Nevada border. Despite monster construction tax credits and accelerated depreciation tax benefits plus a guaranteed power sale rate 4 to 5 times the current national wholesale average, that plant appears to me to be doomed to bankruptcy shortly after its five-year depreciation period has ended. At that point, taxpayers get to pick up the tab for Ivanpah’s federally guaranteed construction loan.
“If the solar cells, themselves, were free…Take a hard look at the Ivanpah plant”
Ivanpah is solar thermal, not solar PV.
And let me guess who gets to foot the reclamation bill to clean up the bone yard after it fails. The tax-payer, of course.
What a snake oil salesman. Still waiting for algores 7 meters of sea level rise. Things are going to have to speed up quite a bit.
I guess the people in the Eastern States and the Mid West just love the current “Global Warming”
Waiting for Griff’s lack of sea ice in the Arctic “statement”.
He will only have another month for that, if he is lucky. Might be less. Although, you will then need to hear about how low it got for the next year or so.
He’s off the clock.
He did not like it when I linked him the current ice extent image, javascript://
Well, that didn’t work. Why am I having so much trouble linking that image from NSIDC? Almost like they suddenly don’t want people to easily share that particular image. Wonder why?
I posted it below!
There’s a distinct lack, alackaday!
My sources tell me Gore is so anxious and depressed following Clexit (Trump 16) that he’s taken up selling cigarettes again—with a vengeance. I mean, like two or three packs a day.
Oh my goodness. I just read the interview. Get a load of this:
What one piece of advice would he give the legitimate scientists? [I guess “legitimate” is a relative term.]
“Listen guys, the world has changed. You can’t afford to just, quote-unquote, stick to the science any more,” says Gore.
They need to get better at defaming and delegitimising skeptics, he argues.
As if what happened to Roger Pielke Jr and Willie Soon wasn’t enough.
It won’t work the same without Obama in the WH. The greens are apt to actually trigger that debate out in the open without being able to control the narrative. The true debate will be the big change that we see.
I suspect the personal heat will be higher for individual on our side with the possible need for physical and financial protection. The greens are going to invest heavily in the politics of personal destruction without the overhead WH shield.
Just drain Subsidies Swamp. Then let the markets prevail.
I like that one😀
The financially fragile companies run by former politicos will be the first to collapse. But Tesla will not be far behind with its cash burn timeline.
I’ve checked and Tesla itself gets no subsidy whatever for its operations from government.
I don’t think that any subsidy removal on its products will affect it… not least because it is selling to markets outside the US.
Check again. When the government is subsidizing the purchase, it is subsidizing the company. Otherwise, no sales, no company. Econ 101.
Nope. No subsidies for Elon Musk at all.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-20150531-story.html
$2.391 Billion subsidy for Telsa component out of 4.9 billion US $ for all his companies. Definitely no subsidy here worth noting.
https://www.quora.com/How-much-government-subsidies-did-Tesla-Motors-receive-by-2015
What do you consider to be a subsidy, Griff?
Once the Dot.com like hype of Elon Musk companies subsides this will become one of the biggest corporate collapses in modern times…..there are many in market circles who think this. I guarantee you that Elon Musk will stay rich though.
As has been pointed out before, the subsidies don’t go directly to Tesla, but instead go directly to anyone who buys one of Tesla’s cars.
You know the difference Griffie, too bad you don’t have sufficient intellectual integrity to acknowledge it.
As Elon Musk said today, without subsidies, his competitive position vs. other electric car makers would be better. He fails to mention that without subsidies, far fewer electric cars would be sold, because the delta with IC engine cards would balloon. So, Tesla would have a larger share of a much smaller market.
Another subsidy that could disappear is Tesla selling its Zero Fuel Vehicle credits to help other car makers with their CAFE and electric mandates. No more mandates would mean no more income stream.
Mark,
Sounds to me like it is still going to Tesla just via their customres.
Customer buys an electric vehicle for $90,000
Government gives the customer a check for $10,000
Customer effectively buys the car for $80,000, manufacturer still makes $90,000
How is this different from
Customer buys a $90,000 electric car for $80,000
Government gives the customer a check for $10,000 payable to the manufacturer.
Customer effectively buys the car for $80,000, manufacturer still makes $90,000
Car is still sold for $90,000
Manufacturer still makes $90,000
Customer still spends $80,000
Government’s $10,000 still goes to the manufacturer
I was responding to Griffies claim that Tesla doesn’t get any direct government subsidies.
Monna,
He’s not likely to answer, so I’ll give it a shot and answer for him”
“subsidies are what the people on the other side get.”
Got it 😉
After having endured the extremism of the leftists and the whole CAGW scam, I, as a conservative skeptic, as with most conservatives naturally, do not wish for ‘revenge’ or “turn around is fair play” against the lefties, even though they would surely relish revenge upon conservatives… But I, at this point, believe it is time to go all out against their whole agenda and crush as much of the BS as can be eliminated. It is sickening to see the damage they have done and the money they have stolen from us in the name of “progress”. History is full of ‘do gooders’ who eventually in their ‘do gooding’ murdered millions of people in their zest for doing good and ‘political correctness’, such as the religion of climate change. It must be eliminated as a call to do good and exposed for the fraud it is.
A big amen to that!
But going after them keeps them busy and spends their resources on defense. They would compliment the nice gesture of no backlash with total contempt. You invite a second wave even bigger than the first.
Nothing convinces “Joe Six Pack” quicker than revealing corruption, collusion and conspiracy. The fight is still with the voter whom does not pay attention to science.
Once the general public is properly informed, there won’t need to be any fighting them. There will be no traction for their science-masked global political coup.
Dahlquist,
Eliminating polio was not an act of vengeance. Ending the cold war a la Reagan, Thatcher & JPII, was not vengeance. So let us proceed to kill the green infection at its philosophical roots.
+100
Drain it
“protect a renewable energy revolution which he also claims will “happen anyway”.”
Good. Let’s completely phase-out/remove the Federal tax breaks and energy mandates and see how renewables compete in an open energy marketplace. If they are as inevitable and reliable as claimed, they will hold and increase market share on their own.
Agreed. Plus, eliminate mandated feed in tariffs. Let the electric companies decide what having your solar panels attached to the grid is worth. I’m not sure if they’d willingly connect or pay you anything.
And no federal rebates or tax incentives.
I’m a Fair Tax https://fairtax.org/index kind of guy.
Agreed. The pricing on intermittent, nondispatchable power should be deeply discounted if salable at all.
I dont KNOW shit but these seem highly probable
1. He’ll pull out of Paris
2. Clean Power Plan stalled so he’ll toss that in the circular file.
3. Man Bear Pig (MBP) threatened campus protests (a la Open Society funded style)
and lawsuits. Trumpie peeps should ease into a full blown Supreme Court daubert style throw down
over the CO2 endangerment determination. They soft stepped that last time. Have at it. Scientists will need something to do. Take a few years if you need to
4. USA is gonna drill it suck it dig it and transport it like you never seen before.
Its going to build some wealth. Break a few eggs and make alot of jobs and alot of growth.
Maybe even build new gen nuclear. Expand other mining.
Subsidies likely will be drastically cut for renewables.
Its about the wealth creation .. the jobs .. will be about full bore making money.
5. Scale back the EPA to a truncated version of its current mission so that it minimizes itself as an obstacle to the above growth. It was never meant to be involved in energy management. CO2 was just a creeping marxist ruse to control the energy base. Betcha there are some MORE important environmental issues that have been ignored such as drinking water quality or even waste water treatment plants … the basics.
Its gonna get a tad dramatic. Ivanka is gonna whine that her brand is impacted cause her chic clientele will uninvite her stuff. MBP will become this crazed green figurehead and Michael Moore will make a documentary. Maybe HRCs core feminists will paint themselves as dying planets are chain themselves to the Washington Monument. La Raza Antifa BLM and an assorted of NGOs will throw down and make protesting a full time job.
The adults who want to have a country will ignore that noise because we want secure borders and a growing economy where we harvest our resources and rebuild an upwardly mobile society.
Fun times. As malcontents see sizable chunks of the population get nice houses new cars and happy families they’ll abandon MBP. Its all about the jobs. The rest of this nonsense will go the way of the Edsel when good jobs start to happen.
I learned alot from the Trump campaign. We have a shot to regain America. If we blow it this time we probably dont deserve it anyway. Electing DJT gave freedom a chance. We’ll see if we blow it or seize it.
As a Brit could somebody translate this “daubert style throw down” into something I understand.
I get the Trumpie peeps and the Supreme Court bit, but the rest . . . . . . .
I’m still wondering what ManBearPig, mpb, means.
The four Daubert criteria for evaluating the admissibility of expert testimony are: (1) whether the methods upon which the testimony is based are centered upon a testable hypothesis; (2) the known or potential rate of error associated with the method; (3) whether the method has been subject to peer review; and (4) whether the method is generally accepted in the relevant scientific community. Given the rest of the opinion, it seems appropriate that the first two of the Court�s four criteria amount to asking whether the techniques upon which the testimony is based are grounded in the scientific method. It is no less appropriate that virtually no expert testimony will satisfy the last two factors unless it satisfies the first two.
The above is a brief summary of the US Supreme Court decision regarding expert testimony in federal court.
Menicholas,
Manbearpig is Southpark’s (animated television program aimed at younger adults) name for Al Gore. In the show he was something like bigfoot and about as intelligible. The producers are liberals, but they skewer nonsense from anyone. My favorite is their name for the Toyota Prius – The Pious because the car is the ultimate virtue signal on environmentalism.
Rapscallion,
I believe the “daubert style throw down” may have to do with the Daubert case where the Supreme court on a 7-2 ruling set the standards for a trial judge to use in evaluating scientific evidence and witnesses. Why that would be a “throw down”, I don’t know, but a 7-2 ruling is a rare occurrence in the modern court.
From Cornell’s Legal Information Institute definition of the Daubert standard:
Menicholas you would need to watch the show “South Park” to understand. The show is rude but very funny.
The court order that stopped Al Gore’s recount of just some Florida counties using new rules was 7-2.
The 5-4 decision was on whether there was still enough time to order a state wide recount using Gore’s special rules.
Oh, OK. Thanks.
I have seen South Park, just not very often.
It is funny, sometimes hysterically so.
From an episode of South Park featuring Al Gore. In the episode Gore is depicted as a paranoid guy who believes in a non-existent monster–“Manbearpig”–that is part man, part bear, and part pig. He believes the Manbearpig is a great threat.
South Park’s creators, Trey Parker and Matt Stone, don’t believe in global warming and the episode “Manbearpig” is their way of saying that when Al Gore talks about the dangers of global warming he is getting all worked up over something that doesn’t even exist.
From an episode of South Park featuring Al Gore. In the episode Gore is depicted as a paranoid guy who believes in a non-existent monster–“Manbearpig”–that is part man, part bear, and part pig. He believes the Manbearpig is a great threat.
South Park’s creators, Trey Parker and Matt Stone, don’t believe in global warming and the episode “Manbearpig” is their way of saying that when Al Gore talks about the dangers of global warming he is getting all worked up over something that doesn’t even exist.
Bring it on!
indeed … but expect Al G to get a free (and wholly unchallenged) pass from the likes of CNN BBC HuffPo etcetera
As a Brit who was bemused by the alternatives in the US election, I find it encouraging that Donald Trump is prepared to talk to those who hold opposite views to his own, rather than just using character assassination from a distance. Maybe he will, despite his flaws, bring some healing to the anger and polarisation that an elite have used to divide and rule
Gore’s comments after the meeting tell me he’s ready to start moving towards “civil disobedience” which is likely to evolve very fast towards terrorism. The USA is very polarized, the Internet and cable deliver the goodies to increase polarization, and new generations really don’t believe in democracy. Gore plans to build on these conditions and I’m afraid he will both undermine democracy and escalate violence.
If you think I’m being over dramatic try following them in social media. I follow individuals from all extremes and what one sees is really ugly. Since the subject here is energy policy, I’d like to point out their plans appear to be to block construction of new fossil fuel infrastructure, and there’s also an undercurrent which tells me we may see a few nuts starting to attack pipelines at sensitive points. I would also worry about trains carrying oil and oil products. This is a serious matter and Gore may be getting ready (out of ignorance and his own pompous arrogance) to start a cycle of violence.
“…(out of ignorance…”
Gore isn’t that ignorant, neither are the other Watermelons. He/they know what they’re is doing… They’re just going to get uglier… The Watermelons haven’t learned.
In America, so far, semi-violent civil disobedience leads to huge political losses of those who indulge in it.
I’m pretty sure it will be the case this time, if it does happen.
However radicals never seem to learn. Because they refuse to associate with anyone who disagrees with them, they are constantly surrounded by people who do agree with them. Over time this leads to two things.
Their views become ever more radical, and they start to believe that their views are much more popular than they actually are.
Never a good combination.
“I’d like to point out their plans appear to be to block construction of new fossil fuel infrastructure, and there’s also an undercurrent which tells me we may see a few nuts starting to attack pipelines at sensitive points. I would also worry about trains carrying oil and oil products.”
You are correct about a few nuts getting out of line. This always happens when the rhetoric gets heated. Some people, of diminished mental capacity, take such rhetoric to heart, and feel justified in lashing out violently. The is a major problem with the radical left. A lot of their members fit in this category. Rabblerousers and mentally challenged people don’t go very well together. An example: Black Lives Matter members chant “kill the police” and some nut hears that and thinks that gives him permission to do just that. Be careful what you call for, you just might get it. Not everybody can sort out all the nuances.
But, the American people are not going to stand for widespread violence in the streets, certainly not, with a Republican president in Office. Law enforcement will crack down on the violent ones, and the American people will approve of the crack down.
Don’t be tearing down our streets. The first groups might get away with doing some violence. But those that follow in their footsteps are going to pay the price for their criminality.
…”This is a serious matter and Gore may be getting ready (out of ignorance and his own pompous arrogance) to start a cycle of violence…..”
You mean re-focusing the Soros/Steyn funded Black Lives Matter/AntiTrumper Brownshirts already in place just waiting for the ‘nod’?
Bahamamike
This is what I would do with Gore. String him along for a bit, via Ivanka, to keep him quiet. When he realises he’s being stalled, give him an environmental job not related to climate that will keep him busy but without real power, influence or money. Turf him out now and he’ll just double-down on global warming propaganda while the current players are still in power and holding budgets, probably doing more harm. Trump’s no pushover – whatever he’s doing, he’s doing it for a reason.
I don’t know JMH, that strategy didn’t work well for Lenin in his attempt sideline Stalin by giving him a podunk job to nowhere.
Trump is reaching out to political opposition as he had called Al Sharpton recently as well. It means he will talk to and listen to the opposition, but does not mean he is going to make policy changes just because he did so.
That too is encouraging. It is harder to hate and despise someone you have actually met in the flesh
It is likely Trump is following a wise plan to keep his friends close but his enemies closer. Plus, it also looks good from a PR perspective to engage with all parties. Trump clearly
knows that he needs to be very aware of all of the threats as he moves forward. Developing large construction projects certainly had to have taught him how to best navigate though political minefields.
RE: ” It means he will talk to and listen to the opposition, but does not mean he is going to make policy changes just because he did so.”
Exactly. DT did not get where he is by being soft or a fool. This is all about: “Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.”
“But more damaged [sic] is baked into the climate system every day, so it’s a race against time”. Now there speaks a real scientist. Remind me of Gore’s scientific qualifications please.
fixed
Thank your lucky stars that you have the internet, brought to you by Al Gore.
He took exactly o e science class in his whole life.
He got a D.
How about them apples?
Was “o e” supposed to be “one”?
Yes. Sorry.
Was using my phone before.
First time I read it, I mistook the ‘o’ for a zero, and I was trying to figure out how he got a ‘D’ on a course he hadn’t taken.
It takes a really smart person to get any grade greater than FAIL in a course they don’t take (even the FAIL is tricky)
The sum total of Al Gore’s scientific qualifications consists of one freshman level (101) course under the actual father of the current CO2/Temperature connection possibility. (There were some earlier scientific papers around 1907 or so, but they didn’t gain traction. (Apparently that was before the peer review/government grant corruption method replaced the experimental method of scientific research.)
The professor Roger Reville co-authored a 1957 paper with Hans Suess suggesting the possibility. Al Gore reportedly made a “D” in the course…. Al Gore called Reville his “mentor” but when Reville later recanted and expressed his regrets that his research had led to such a derailing of climate science, Gore alleged that Reville had become “senile.”
Don’t forget flunking out of Divinity school
That’s why he had to create his own religion.
Not being an American and understanding the rather convoluted procedures involved in governing makes any detailed comment risky however it seems that President-elect Trump should not spend time taking on the climate change extremists but rather simply work with Congress to cut funding. It has been apparent that it has been endless budget funds that has allowed the warmists unfettered ability to pump out ill-conceived “science” and publish their idiocy ad nauseam.
Owen, what I hope Trump is doing in meeting with Gore is building political cover for the squishier members of his own party. He can claim that he gave the other side a fair hearing, and still rejected their agenda. There are all too many squshy Republicans in Congress.
And what I think Trump is doing in those “short” meeting with Gore and other “trumphaters” is to politely tell them that …… the golden-haired bear is going to be “defecating in the buckwheat” where ever he chooses, ………. beginning January 20th, 2017, ……. and for them to be mighty careful iffen they decide to “irritate” him when he is doing his “business”.
“There are all too many squshy Republicans in Congress.”
Good point, Tom.
I’ll be interested to watch how Trump handles the first real opposition he gets in Congress, and it could be from Democrats or Republicans. I’m prone to think if Trump really wants something, he is going to find a way to get it, even if it means taking on some members of Congress by name.
I could see Trump traveling to a recalcitrant Republican member of Congress state to browbeat the member over his opposition. Just the threat of Trump doing something like that, might get him what he wants. Do *you* want to take on Donald Trump right now? I didn’t think so. 🙂
My own Senator Lindsey Graham once commented that he became concerned with the “Climate Issue” when in Hong Kong he watched CO2 spew out of the motorcycle ahead of him. (paraphrase).
Where do you start with dumb like that?
Unfortunately, because of the massive brainwashing of the American public (and some in congress) Donald will have to beware of uninformed public backlash if he moves TOO fast on this issue; it is very easy to create false narratives (the DA pipeline is just one example where rationality has gone out the window and emotional thinking takes over).
TA, a lot depends on how the representative/senator did vis-a-vis Trump in their district/state.
A lot of them finished well ahead of trump in 2016.
Owen,
Your two comments are spot on with respect to actions that could have near immediate effect on slowing or stopping the implementation of existing regulations.
With respect to your “convoluted procedures” comment, I doubt that one American in a thousand understands how convoluted our system is. Most think that it is simply passing a law and that is it……cursing or praising the legislators who invented the law. After the Congress passes the law and the President signs it, the convolution begins:
Most laws have a clause(s) that require the executive branch (the President and his minions) to write the appropriate regulations to implement the law. What follows describes how nasty the convolution can get:
1. Initially, the responsible agency drafts the regulations and offers the draft to the public for comments. The draft regulation may be amended as a result of comments. This can take months. Ultimately the regulation(s) are put in final form and implemented.
2. Unfortunately, unless repealed or amended, the law is forever. The federal agencies can (and do) reinterpret the law years later and draft additional regulations.
3. The President can issue executive orders that bypass the regulation drafting and review process.
4. There is anecdotal evidence that federal agencies have colluded with advocacy groups whereby the advocacy group actually writes the draft regulation.
5. One of the most pernicious corruption of the regulation generating process is the “sue and settle” strategy used by advocacy groups in collusion with a federal agency. Simple: An advocacy group sues the federal government agency to overturn or amend a regulation or judicial ruling. The case is brought before an administrative judge where the complicit federal agency agrees to settle the case in favor of the advocacy group. The judge has no choice but to accede to the federal agency’s wish to settle with the “aggrieved” party.
Although I might ascribe the term “pernicious corruption” to the sue-and-settle strategy, the strategy can be used as a counter by those opposing the advocacy group. “But”, you say, “how can you get the federal agency to collude with you?” Just have the head of the agency threaten the bureaucrats with a stint in Alaska counting polar bears.
When the Daly Telegraph sacked Louise Gray and Geoffrey Lean, their two ‘environmental’ commenters (cutnpasters) they were perfectly frank. The Green advertising revenue had dried up.
I can think of two relatively recent protests.
Demonstrations against invading Iraq. link
Occupy Wall Street. link
We know how much effect those had. I say, let the alarmists protest.
The demonstrations against invading Iraq didn’t have much effect because it took less than a year between the time when Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz made the decision and the invasion took place. We must also consider the invasion was instigated by USA elites from both parties, had the support of the Israel lobby, and center left media backed it all the way. The democratic establishment was very pro war, and Hillary Clinton voted for the war.
I’m very familiar with the circumstances because I’m in the oil business and the private intelligence sources I could access made it clear there were no WMD and the whole thing was a neocon adventure. Unfortunately the American people learned very little from this blunder because the media, which had cooperated to start the war, simply fogged up the lessons. Today we see even more dangerous coming from the war (neocon) party about Russia and Iran. And I’m afraid they won’t stop until we find ourselves in another war USA politicians won’t know how to win.
Trump spoke at length about six trillion spent on war and nation building, and the Middle East now in worse shape than ever, by far.
War party?
Neocons?
Democrat establishment?
Maybe you did not notice, but Trump just obliterated the Bushes, Clintons, and both party establishments, and is calling for working with the Russians.
Trump is a clear eyed pragmatist, not an insane ideologue war monger.
The Truth is strong in this one…
Some folks worried that Reagan was going to cause WW3. There was the sound check where he declared Russia illegal and said the bombing would start in five minutes. The Soviets believed Reagan would actually punish them hard and they behaved. On the other hand, everyone knew they could walk all over Carter because he was a man of peace.
Trump has said that you don’t show your cards when you’re negotiating. Keep them guessing. They have to ask themselves if they’re feeling lucky. On the other hand brinkmanship is a dangerous game.
“Today we see even more dangerous coming from the war (neocon) party about Russia and Iran. And I’m afraid they won’t stop until we find ourselves in another war USA politicians won’t know how to win.”
It’s not the neocons (whoever they are) who are making the dangerous moves in the Middle East, it is Russia and Syria and Iran. What’s your solution, allow these totalitarians mass murderers to have their way? How many more innocent people should we allow them to murder before we say “Enough!”?
The first thing one has to do is figure out who the good guys are, and who the bad guys are.
On the other hand there is the Dakota Access Pipeline, which is more to the point.
Emotional protests like the DAP bring out the useful idiots in huge numbers.
Go Donald! Blow the alarmists out of the water
Go, Donald! Blow the alarmists out of the water!
It’s been a long wait…I’m glad I’ve lived long enough to see the tide turn and the ‘scum’ be washed out to be lost in the ocean…where it belongs.
They have not gone anywhere yet. Best not to count them chickens until the foxes are routed out if the henhouse.
Excuse me, I have metaphors to mix…
Actually, it’s a very good metaphor on its own.
Most appropriate.
Here’s what i submitted on Decide. 1 to Trump’s online suggestion box at https://apply.ptt.gov/yourstory/
Oops: My text should have begun, “Here’s what I submitted on Dec. 1 . . .”
Yeah, and make sure the room is freezing cold so that Hansen can get a feel for the future. He kinda supports such tricks…
Gavin Schmidt v Roy Spencer..
Watch Gavin RUN. !!
Yes Andy all he has to do is give Gavin his thesis on how the world is just 6000 years old and we are all part of a grand design.
My eyes would glaze over at that.
And, frankly, I’d run to.
I always think that he lives in his own world with his own interpretation of the climate: after all, ClimateofGavin is his twitter handle. It’s not the climate that the rest of us experience – just his own invention.
Gavin will RUN and HIDE just like he did last time.
Gavin is like you, toneb… he cannot debate on climate.
The climate extremist trolls confuse one’s religious beliefs with their professional work which is actually very ironic when one looks at the quality of most troll posters.
Toneb, do you ever have anything relevant to say?
If the climate guru genie were to grant me but a single wish I’d wish for Dr. Spencer to wake up and drop that sh1t.
Hansen isn’t qualified for such a position. You would need a 50 year old who has managed at least the early phases of a $10 billion plus project which finished on time and on budget.
I agree, and why even consider rewarding and giving power to Hansen or any of his despicable ilk?
Excellent suggestions, Roger! I hope Trump listens to you.
I think he may already be doing so. He hasn’t talked to Hansen yet, but Hansen and Gore are as tight as an organ grinder and his monkey, so there’s only one degree of separation there.
(My other suggestion to Trump is to hire Dr. Judy (“What, me Curry?”) for some top climate-related job. She’d be a perfect choice. If he picks her I’ll start thinking of myself as an eminence gris!)
Very First thing, audit the temperature data, all adjustments to be justified by their authors or be discarded. If records are lost, changes discarded. Non-cooperation to be treated as some kind of fraud.
If Trump removes subsidies ‘renewables’ will face as certain a death as a comatose patient being unplugged from life support. Gore’s hissy-fit will therefore be irrelevant.
That will require Congress to repeal the 5-year subsidy law it passed last year.
Why do I get the impression that Al Gore invited himself to a meeting with Trump.
He publicslly volunteered his services last month.
I still think Gore is well suited to running the White House snow removal crew. After all, it hardly ever snows much in D.C.
Unless the Gore-Effect…
He volunteers his services in hopes of enacting the policies that will prop up the value of his Green portfolio. Not exactly free.
Remember that until the electoral college vote on the 19th of December, Trump has to stay calm and not piss too many people off from either side. Once he’s confirmed as Pres, all bets are off. I think he’s just biding his time.
There’s already one “Republican” electoral college delegate who has publicly stated that he can’t vote for Trump.
In most of the world, people who find themselves incapable of performing their sworn duty, resign and allow the appointment of someone who can.
Yeah, I imagine that fellow is in for some backlash.
His arrogance and his holier-than-thou attitude are sickening. He has taken it upon himself to thwart the will of the American people.