Guardian: Old People Voting Against Climate or Brexit is "Intergenerational Theft"

Anker Grossvater erzählt eine Geschichte 1884

Anker Grossvater erzählt eine Geschichte 1884. By Albert Anker – Albert Anker, Sandor Kuthy und andere, Orell Füssli Verlag, Zürich 1980, Public Domain, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=5488292

Guest essay by Eric Worrall

Oil industry consultant Dana Nuccitelli, writing for the Guardian, has launched yet another green attack on democracy, by suggesting that older people who voted for Brexit, or who vote against green policies, are committing “intergenerational theft”.

The inter-generational theft of Brexit and climate change

Youth will bear the brunt of the poor decisions being made by today’s older generations

In last week’s Brexit vote results, there was a tremendous divide between age groups. 73% of voters under the age of 25 voted to remain in the EU, while about 58% over the age of 45 voted to leave.

This generational gap is among the many parallels between Brexit and climate change. A 2014 poll found that 74% of Americans under the age of 30 support government policies to cut carbon pollution, as compared to just 58% of respondents over the age of 40, and 52% over the age of 65.

Inter-generational theft

The problem is of course that younger generations will have to live with the consequences of the decisions we make today for much longer than older generations. Older generations in developed countries prospered as a result of the burning of fossil fuels for seemingly cheap energy.

However, we’ve already reached the point where even contrarian economists agree, any further global warming we experience will be detrimental for the global economy. For poorer countries, we passed that point decades ago. A new paper examining climate costs and fossil fuel industry profits for the years 2008–2012 found:

“For all companies and all years, the economic cost to society of their CO2 emissions was greater than their after‐tax profit, with the single exception of Exxon Mobil in 2008”

It now falls to the US to do better than the UK. Risk management and the well-being of future generations must trump ideology and fear in the November elections. We simply can’t afford two of the world’s superpowers being dictated by populism and xenophobia at the expense of our youth’s future.

Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2016/jun/27/the-inter-generational-theft-of-brexit-and-climate-change

Most old people I know would throw themselves into a fire if they thought it would somehow improve the lives of their grandkids. Claiming old people en-masse do not care about the young is utterly obscene.

When older people vote for Brexit, or vote against fanatics who think it is OK to advocate disenfranchising groups who oppose their views, just maybe it is because they have the life experience to see through the lies of would be tyrants.

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304 thoughts on “Guardian: Old People Voting Against Climate or Brexit is "Intergenerational Theft"

  1. Great idea!
    Let’s only let people aged 15 to 30 vote. Since they have little compared to their elders, why not confiscate all their parents and grandparents wealth, as well as ignoring their wisdom accumulated over a lifetime?
    Would Britain have gone to war against Germany in 1939 had Parliament been elected by teenagers and young adults?

      • I cited Logan’s Run below.
        The theme was a thing back then, when there were so many Boomers.

      • Then are the younger demographic who vote in favor of costly Green Initiatives actually committing Geriatricide by committing their elders to costly energy while being relegated to a meager fixed income leading to premature death?

      • First and foremost the probable reason for the generational deficit is most likely the proliferation of climate change material being taught in schools now that wasn’t being taught 30 years ago. Very few courses, whether they be English, Social Studies, History, Economics, Chemistry, even Math, hasn’t been adjusted to include some form of the CO2 = Climate Change narrative. Today’s graduates have heard the dogma concerning AGW every day and in almost every course so it is ingrained in them thus the 73% statistic.
        It then goes on to describe the older demographic (ages 45 to 65+) as Inter-Generational Thieves for voting contrary to the younger demographic due to the perceived “Cost of Carbon”. But, given the true cost of energy produced by the Green Alternatives it is really robing from the Older Crowd on Fixed incomes that higher energy costs tends to create. And as to the often reported catch phrase (redistribution of Wealth) referring to take money from those (that Can afford it) and giving it to those (other countries) that can’t afford it. The question arrises
        “Which generation is it that has the money that is being redistributed and to which generation is it being redistributed”?
        Before Mr Nuccitelli accuses the older generation of robbing the futures of the younger generation, he should consider the younger generation also robbing the accumulated wealth of the older generation.
        It seems to me to be the same thing either way. It’s just a question of Who is robbing Who.

      • Is that the one where progressively the compulsory age of your death is lowered, the movie ending at age 11? I thought about it the other day, & thought it might have been called “If”.

    • I wonder how much dystopian Dana Nuccitelli, would like the old movie Soylent Green? I suspect she would endorse and RELISH it.
      Old people sent to the knacker factory to be turned into GREEN protein wafers, yummy!

      • My foible,
        I wonder how much dystopian Dana Nuccitelli, would like the old movie Soylent Green? I suspect it would endorse and RELISH it.
        Old people sent to the knacker factory to be turned into GREEN protein wafers, yummy!

      • Dana is of indeterminate species let alone gender, IMO. It is even indeterminate if it is a carbon based life form. Methinks its silicon based or even just hydrogen based. Helium would be far to balanced to be possible.

      • This conversation with Governor Henry C. Santini…
        … is brought to you by Soylent Red and Soylent Yellow…
        … high-energy vegetable concentrates…
        … and new, delicious Soylent Green…
        … the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
        Because of its enormous popularity, Soylent Green is in short supply.
        Remember, Tuesday is Soylent Green Day.
        And now, Governor Santini.

        This is the police.
        This is the police. This is the police.
        I am asking you to disperse.
        The supply of Soylent Green has been exhausted.
        You must evacuate the area.
        The scoops are on their way.
        The scoops are on their way!

        ~Here is the complete script of ‘Soylent Green’

      • M Seward
        Not sure about Dana being Silicon Based (Horta) or Hydrogen Based
        But more probably Carbon-Hydrogen Based (CH4)

      • Good old Soylent Green. An imaginative romp through a distopian future brought about by combining all the Greens most fevered predictions. The Population Bomb. Mass Extinctions. Peak Oil. Environmental Destruction. Resource Depletion. And of course Global Warming. Set 50 years in the future, it showed what horrors could await humanity if we failed in our stewardship of the Earth.
        Of course, it came out in 73, so that 50 years placed it in 2022. Personally I doubt we’ll be forced to stoop to cannibalism in the next 6 years. But as any Green can tell you, just because their predictions failed doesn’t mean they weren’t right.

    • “All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”
      ― George Orwell, Animal Farm
      Obviously one diminishes in equality as one ages…

      • exactly….
        Like declaring 95% of countries developing and get paid…..
        Then voting to make it look democratic and equal

    • Nuccitelli is lying through his teeth. Again.
      The breakdown of age demographics he’s quoting missed out one vital statistic. The stats for under 25 voting was thirty six percent. That 75% Nucci is blathering on about is nonsense. It comes from the same stable as the 97%. It means means the Yoof vote was so important to the Yoofs only approximately one in five bothered to get off their backsides to vote. And now a small minority of vociferous activists on social media are banging on about “intergenerational theft”. It’s all bollocks.
      And would Nucci please explain why the older generation would vote Brexit to deliberatly wreck the lives and future of thei children and grandchildren? I have yet to hear a sensible reply to that one. The Guardian and the BBC are doing their utmost to be divisive, widening a gulf between families and using young people, too wrapped up in their own lives, who do not undersand what the EU really is – a fascist state with an unelected politburo intent on dictating whatever they damn well please.

      • It’s a logical fallacy – begging the question.
        People voted Leave because they thought it was good for their children and grandchildren.
        The whole point of the argument is whether Leaving is good or bad – you can’t bypass that step to start pontificating about the poor children.

      • Yup. Under 25 years of age 27% of those eligible voted “remain”, above 65 it was 32%. That’s what 36% vs. 83% turnout does.
        Hopefully, as they get older, youngsters are going to gain a bit of responsibility.
        The British may consider introducing compulsory voting, as it was done in Australia almost a century ago. With that device they were able to keep turnout around 95% since then.

      • Ah, don’t worry about the young people, they’re far too wrapped up in more important things in life like which pop-star is sleeping with which thesbian & vice-versa, or will the new latest mobile phone ring-tone work on their phone, or will they need a new one!

      • Very astute comment. When those who elect not to vote through laziness or ignorance then complain the correct response is to ignore them.

      • The inter-generational theft is where the current ruling generations make decisions regarding climate change that result in huge amounts of money being borrowed, & repaid by future generations of taxpayers. Nuccitelli & his ilk don’t care about that – only the warm & fuzzy feelings they get from believing they are saving the planet from humanity! Such ignorance. Such arrogance.

    • Great idea!
      ‘Let’s only let people aged 15 to 30 vote’
      Better idea!
      Let only people who pay taxes vote.

    • This old person voted leave. When we voted to join, I was too young to get a vote, so seeing the diaster that generation got us into, I decided to vote to fix it.

      • Paul Mackey June 28, 2016 at 2:03 am
        I’m with you on that I didn’t get to vote join or stay out but I was not going to let the chance to get out go by without having my say.
        I voted out and am happy with the result if the result had been otherwise I wouldn’t have been happy but I wouldn’t be trying to make out the vote was wrong, fixed or those who voted for what I didn’t want were somehow under the undue influence of corrupting powers! AS the BBC and Grauniad are doing.
        James Bull

      • I missed out on voting the last time too. My parents both voted NO because they had lived in Germany and understood what the Common Market, as it was then, really meant; a huge hike in the cost of living.
        Many people who voted to join the Single Market back in the 70s voted Leave because now they are 40 years older and wiser they know they were duped and acted to reverse it.
        Unfortunately we are now witnessing the Establishment closing ranks to try and overturn or fudge the Brexit result. What do we have to do to get the message across? Foment a civil war?

      • Aged 64(!) I voted not to join in the first place,and voted “leave” this time around.Have to say I am increasingly worried at the attitude of the press towards older people,and how it is,in many cases,affecting how we are viewed by the younger generation.

    • Dan Nut-Celli is a typical vile spoilt middle class white western lefty . They have no idea or concept of the struggle that humans had experienced to get where we are today which is a damn-site preferable that that of our ancestors. This shallowness is caused by pampered easy affluent lifestyles made only possible by the older generations . As for the concept that the youth are the best stewards to save the planet! Well if you want to see a world smothered in graffiti, wrecked by vandalism, strewn with rubbish, millions of abortions, porn being encouraged at increasingly younger ages, a globe of idiots laying in bed all day, the ability to lie and carry out herculean levels of hypocrisy , well I guess the youth are your best bet to save our planet

    • When future generations look upon Brexit they will realize that it was the older generation that saved the UK.
      One need look no further than the statements coming out of Germany and its lap dog France, to realize that the EU has no Magna Carta to limit the power of the King.
      Twice in the past 100 years the UK saved Europe from Germany. Brexit is simply a continuation of this process. As Greece, Spain, Italy and such crumble under mountains of debt and unemployment, to feed the industrial might of Germany, they too will wish they had voted with their feet.

    • Dear Mr. Nuccitelli,
      Tell me: Who created the Euro, what year, and why.
      You can’t.
      That’s why your comment is jejune, uneducated bordering on stupid, and devoid of any historicity or context.
      Granted, the majority of the working people who voted for Brexit have no clue either. But their common sense prevailed. Luckily, the best thing that ever happened to Britons was that the (late) Wynne Godley convinced Margaret Thatcher in 1990-1992 not to adopt the Euro, whose advice she did not ignore.
      How old were you in 1990, Mr. Nuccitelli? Twelve? Ten? Younger? Older?
      While you were discovering the unleashed independence of your young gonads, those of us who did read history remember and understood it.

    • We need to set up a La-La land where they can live out their fantasies. (Of course, we could also send them to Venezuela.) The survivors, if they can muster sufficient evidence that they have achieved some degree of maturity, would be allowed back into a country run by adults.

    • Well those old fogeys with their quaint ideas of freedom, may just have saved all of those wild eyed millenials from living under sharia law.
      G

  2. Dana needs to stop the projection.
    When it comes the generational theft and ripping off children,Nutty Boy and his chosen comrades have shown their skills.

    • Here in the US, the government has $20 Trillion in debt which will be on the backs of the younger generation to pay off. But some of my children are so brainwashed with Left ideology, they don’t consider that debt is made of real dollars.
      Someday they’ll wake up and find they were wrong.

      • “Dollars? Where do DOLLARS come from, Mommy?” You can bet the answer won’t be “Hard Work!”

      • Propose an Amendment (USA) that all things that are “generational” theft be banned, including government borrowing money. I would like to see how they would justify government debt, but without it, most all their cherished government programs would come to a halt.

      • Jtom
        Speaking of intergenerational theft, who stole democracy from the youth in the UK and handed it to unimpeachable EU commissars? Dana’s squealing is painful to hear because of the hypocrisy it contains. I guess Dana thinks the young are too stupid to have an opinion on the matter – if it disagrees with the EU regulators, but are all smart and responsible if they agree. Huh. That’s mature.
        The fact that older people are harder to swindle is not too surprising. The same applied when I was young.
        To the young, I say get your heads out of your phones and look around. Your entire future is being stolen from you by a multi-tentacled green blob intent on telling you which green leaf you can use to wipe your ass. They are not your friends. There is no free lunch. That charging station is actually paid for by someone. Having national dominion over national affairs is not an error, it is common sense.
        The squealing is going to get a lot louder. Carefully and crafty plans are starting to unravel. You can be a world citizen without giving up your rights as one.

      • +1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

        • You could have just used the mathematical expression of 10^100 ( a google) instead of 10^42 and a really big number is 10 ^google.

      • Excellent comment, I was thinking when I read this article how the marxist wannabe’s never mention how the current or older generation is robbing the younger generation’s future by endless increases in deficits and borrowing. Currently, we are on the same path as Greece but who will bail us out? The answer is nobody.

      • Amen, amen, amen!!! I am in my thirties, and even in my late teens, I started to realize how bad the US debt situation. Now it is so much worse, yet even fewer people seem aware. Probably because all the old people who lived through the Depression are dying, and hardly anyone remembers how dangerous credit and money on “paper” can be.
        The only question is, will the revolution occur before China calls in the IOUs?

      • Strange the generational theft term was used when the Progressives are the biggest thieves supporting the 20 trillion and rising debt burden on our next generation.

    • Projection indeed.
      It was the older generations who built up wealth in developed countries and actually own property rather than a life-time of debt and a negative equity loan.
      It is the younger generation who to give all that wealth to third world despots.
      Key figures have admitted on several occasions that AGW is all about wealth redistribution. Whose wealth is it the younger generation wants to redistribute?
      Inter-generational theft indeed.
      The older generation who grew up with the old fashioned idea of being able to elect those in charge of running the country want to retain the means of sacking them if they don’t perform. The younger generation who seem generally disinterested in politics seem in favour letting that be taken away, thus depriving the rest of us of our democracy.
      Inter-generational theft indeed.

      • It is stunning how close the parallels are with these nut jobs and 1984. They steal and live off government tax dollars, pursue quixotic idealized policies with no grounding in fact, sentence generations to sub-standard living, deny basic freedoms and then when the peasants revolt — call it inter-generational theft.
        Oceania must be proud of its native son.

  3. …I bet 97% of those kids under 25 also think that “Basket Weaving” is a great college course to further their careers !

  4. so much BS–I remember a time when the wisdom that comes with age was respected. The younger folk vote in stupid ways because they have not yet experienced life in all of its many faces. As these “younger” generations grow up, they too will (hopefully) gain the wisdom that comes with experience.

    • Plus, the young people today are so much smarter than the old people because internet, computers and software.

      • For those that don’t get it ….. internet, computers and software, that the old people invented.

      • Yes the young are so smart they can’t even bother to register to vote. In many societies the wise council of the elders is held in high esteem; also they have seen it all before and voted wrongly to stay in in 1975 – only to see the common market/EEC morph into an unaccountable political/fiscal union that is corrupt and undemocratic.

      • Unfortunately for them, lived experience is not something you can Google or ask Siri about.

      • Well we are born smart a*** know it alls, and we slowly forget all the stuff that didn’t work, until we know nothing; and then we die.
        g

    • I remember an old saying. “When I was 15,my father was really dumb. I am now 21,and amazed how much my father learnt in 6 years”.

    • As these “younger” generations grow up, they too will (hopefully) gain the wisdom that comes with experience.

      HA, are not all local, state and federal elected politicians …… as well as 98% of all public sector employees ….. classified as “grown ups”?
      Gaining the wisdom that comes with experience …. is 100% dependent upon the environment that one “grows up” in (subjected to).
      90+% of the “younger” generations are already doomed to be deficient of “wisdom and experiences” …. primarily because of their Public School Environment.

      • Well, there are people who have converted oxygen to carbon dioxide for 18 or more years, and there are grownups/adults.
        Sadly, the former tend to somehow amass a heck of a lot of power.

      • Human history is a long perpetual cycle of Big Kids making Big Messes and the long-suffering adults who spend a century or three cleaning up after them.
        Here’s to those nameless legions of responsible people. If not for them, history’s Big Kids would have probably killed us all by now.

      • That would put unemployed and elderly away. A republic needs ways to protect those who don’t have a job or who are not yet, any more, or just now capable of working. Voting right is one of those.
        But I do think consevatism that comes with age is a good thing. To certain smount at least.

      • What country do you live in where old people don’t pay taxes? I’d like to move there in about 5 years.
        I like the “no pay, no play” idea. In the US, approximately 47% of wage earners pay no federal income tax, but they get to decide how to spend my money. When it tips over 50%, who’s going to stop them from pillaging those of us left to pay?

      • The problem we have in this country is that those who pay no taxes are continually voting for more free stuff.

      • Unless you are without a job for the entire period between elections, then you did pay taxes.

      • @MarkW
        To your first point, that’s exactly what I was saying.
        To your second point, please note that I said “federal income tax”. The FICA tax is nominally to support SSI payments although the surplus is entirely spent. When SSI outgo exceeds income, the shortfall will be made up out of general revenues, or more likely added to the general debt.

  5. To all you “youngens” out their.
    I would like to remind you that the AVERAGE age of the un-elected EU commissioners,
    in whom you seem to want to put all your decisions and regulatory power…..
    is approximately 55 ! 🙂

  6. Yet another recidivist, wanting to revert to the Eco-Purity of the Dark Ages,
    Modern society is largely built on Energy. Mankind has moved from harnessing cropping & animal husbandry, to adopting the wonders offered by the exploitation of Energy, and moving into the (amazing!!) advancement we now have, and will continue to have, bar Luddites like this moron.

  7. Considering that the “old people” voting to leave the EU are pretty much the same people who voted in favor of joining/staying in the EU over the last few decades, it’s more of a case of “what the hell were we thinking all of those years?”

    • The British people never voted to join the EU. They voted to stay in the Common Market, when there were assured that it was just a free trade zone and had no intention of becoming a European superstate that would take Britain’s sovereignty away. The government told them that even though they already knew that was exactly what the EU was meant to be.
      It’s taken this long to get another vote to get the heck out.
      So, the left have proven that they hate the right, the working class, and now the old farts. Pretty soon they’ll have run out of people to hate.

      • Good knee-jerk rant against “the left” but if you’ve been following the story, the left wing leader of the Labour party is currently undergoing a leadership coup because “it’s his fault” that he did not “deliver” the votes of Labour supporter for the Remain camp. ( Like parties are there to tell their followers what to vote for rather than to represent them ).
        “The Left” in Britain are just a split on this question as the right are. Without “the Left” there are not enough Euro-sceptics on the right for Britain to have decided to abandon the anti-democratic federal Europe.
        Sorry to spoil a good rant.

      • > Pretty soon they’ll have run out of people to hate
        Naah, there’s still all the young farts to go.

      • The Labour party in the UK is out of step with the working people it claims to represent. It was the Midlands of England, the industrial heart of the nation that carried the vote against the EU. It is the disconnect between the politicians and their constituents that is at the heart of the problems facing Labour.

      • Jeremy Corbyn has campaigned against the EU many times in the past, his campaign was half hearted, and the Labour heartlands voted comprehensively and decisively out. Its safe to say when Coal mining areas such as County Durham, Sunderland, The Rhondda and Merthyr Tydfyl are voting out , and Bolsover (MP Dennis Skinner) has a 40% margin. Then its not a right wing result

      • Bolsover (MP Dennis Skinner) has a 40% margin.”
        Dennis Skinner aka ‘the Beast of Bolsover’ is one of the few honest MPs we have.

  8. Nuccitelli apparently likes relying on imaginary “costs” of CO2. Like what real costs, as in real people paying out real money, Dana, not estimated costs no one ever actually paid.

  9. So much for the concept of wisdom coming with age.
    Nuccitelli apparently would have us believe the those under 25 know what is best for us rather than those who have been around the block (so to speak) many more times in life and know when to be suspicious of what politicians and the MSM are telling us.

    • Nuccitelli clearly has not spent any time on a college campus in the last few years. Who is dumb enough to want to risk those crazy special snowflakes grabbing power?

  10. Dana provides an excellent advice to both Americans and Britons. He probably lives in both countries and drinks in pubs all day long, getting acquainted with a public opinion. I wonder when does he pen down his wisdoms.

    • When he is 3 parts cut. I’m not sure if that translates across the oceans too well. 3 sheets to the wind.

  11. Dana and his ilk are birds of a feather with jihadis screaming “Death to the Infidels!”

  12. for Brexit in headline would be helpful.

    D.I.N.K.s
    Double Income No Kids Remember that term from the 80s?
    The idea was that there was a group within society that felt no social obligation to contribute to the population, and thereby suffer the burdens and joys of raising children. The couple, by their own choice, once raised by selfless parents, had no kids and lived like college kids for the rest of their lives. It was put to me then that D.I.N.K.s should not have a right to vote nor should they be able to collect social security payments. The rationale was that if you don’t contribute to society, you should not reap the rewards.
    Now we have a reverse situation wherein the baby boomers have spent the futures of their grandchildren so that they can have various forms of security like health care or a second home in the sunny south. The grandchildren will be taking up the tab in their 40s and 50s.
    The rationale now is that the baby-boomers have screwed up the environment and won’t be around long enough to suffer the consequences of their life-long actions. The kids are aware of where the hurt is coming from…. vaguely.
    I offer this counter argument:
    The young (under 25) and those without children should not be able to vote.
    The young are too ignorant and dependent of the social gov-funded fabric to make an informed decisions. People who willfully have no children have no stake in the future. So why should they have any control over national finance?
    So I propose the only people who should be able to vote are those who ultimately will be responsible for carrying the burden of the popular will. Hmmm who does that leave at the voting booths?
    Democracy is a messy thing.

      • Nahhh.. Not if you have to practice this, Goldrider.
        GET OFF MY LAWN!
        If you don’t have to practice that, then you’re just normal.

    • You don’t have to bear children in order to contribute to society.
      Anyone who works an honest job contributes.

      • We have plenty of deadbeats who have more kids in order to get more $$$s from the gov. Doesn’t mean they’re contributing to society.

      • The major flaw in the argument: the assumption that people who have kids a) care about them and b) are more concerned with the future than non-parents. It is good that childless people care about children and the future, it is sad that many parents do not.
        I think there is some merit to the idea, perhaps with a few alterations. Sometimes I think people should have to prove they are sensible enough to vote. A single question might be enough: do you think the government can spend your money more wisely than you?

      • The problem is that for way to many of those voting, the government isn’t spending their money. It’s spending someone else’s money.

    • Where do you get the utterly erroneous idea that those without children do not contribute to society. My wife and I can’t have children & it’s too late now anyway but we worked all our lives since college. She’s a nurse in an ICU – tell her she doesnt contribute. She’s made more of a contribution in her life than you ever will in yours. If you have a credit card or a debit card I’ll bet you use software to process your transactions that was created by my teams and me. No contribution? Then how about paying more taxes than you because of no child credits, no child deductions and years of the marriage penalty? How about local taxes that support your kid’s education and health services? How about more in state taxes that also support your kid’s education and general public health services. No contribution anywhere there? You Prick!

  13. “… maybe it is because they have the life experience to see through the lies of would be tyrants”
    That’s almost exactly what I was thinking as I was reading Nuccitelli’s words. I can’t remember how many times I’ve heard this or that was the next thing I should fear, from the threat of nuclear war to SARS to the bird flu. I saw an interview with one of the young people suing the federal government (with James Hansen’s help) over climate change and I had to laugh at both his passion and naivete.

    • No lie–right now they’re trying to foment hysteria about spraying for Zika mosquitoes–in CONNECTICUT!

  14. Dana is relatively young with a small memory frame-of-reference. “Old” people recall experiencing or hearing about weird and extravagant weather which, today, sends younger people into paroxysms of fear and high anxiety. Climate is mainly a function of latitude, ocean currents and land mass variations. “Managing” that would be an exercise in expensive experimental magic. But people keep pretending because it seems to them to be the “responsible” thing to do. It’s just a new version of sacrificing goats, virgins, burnt offerings, etc. which seemed rational back in days of yore. A few generations from now, now will be “days of yore”.

  15. The voting turnout in the Brexit referendum among 18-24 year olds was 36%. In fact, a greater proportion of 65 and overs voted to “remain” than the proportion of 18-24 year olds who voted “remain”, it’s just that the vast bulk of the rest of the over 65’s voted leave while the vast bulk of the rest of the 18-24’s didn’t vote at all.
    I’m not criticising the 18-24’s who didn’t vote. Maybe they thought that they simply didn’t have enough reliable information to make an informed vote amidst all the unverifiable hyberbole.
    But Nuccitelli is clearly being dishonest or stupid in implying that the Brexit vote demonstrates overwhelming support for “remain” among the young.

    • “Maybe they thought that they simply didn’t have enough reliable information to make an informed vote amidst all the unverifiable hyberbole.”
      Tim,
      NONE of us had enough reliable information to make an informed vote amidst all the unverifiable hyperbole.
      Both sides used the well practiced CAGW method – each lie is more intimidating than the last one

  16. ‘Guardian ‘ readers are typified by the Ivory-Tower , self-proclaimed “inner leckual”, Elite: “Only Our Way is Best”.
    And so went the French Revolution .
    Delighted to see another Revolution propagated (bloodlessly?) by today;s proletariat.

  17. To MARCUS @ 6:21pm . . .
    It is “Underwater Basket Weaving” if you puhleese for goodness’ sake. I graduated Summa Cum Bono U2 in ’63. And I think it highly discriminatory to focus just on above water Basket Weaving.
    Dana NutJob – what a great and perfectly apposite name.

  18. I’m wondering….just how many children does Dana have? Is he indeed a parent….in what we used to call a nuclear family ? Or is procreation not sufficiently “green” for this miserably ignorant individual?
    I’m too old to contact Dana in about 25 years, but someone younger out there….please make a note to do just that, and attach (or perhaps telepathically transmit) this goofy opinion piece. If able, I’d pay to see his reaction to his youthful idiocy.
    The question I still have is why on earth would The Guardian print such nonsense?
    Oh never mind. It’s just The Guardian. The increasingly irrelevant Guardian.

  19. Nuccitelli apparently is only giving voice to a widely held notion after the vote.
    “Inter-generational theft” seems to me more like “inter-generational squander”. The current generation of under-25 seems not to know of their inheritance of freedom, and seems not interested in finding out.
    I look at the college campus and see speech codes and movements to ban “hate speech”. Even such a mainstream speaker as Condoleeza Rice got disinvited as a speaker. Apparently some points of view are not to be tolerated. In some segments of society, freedom of speech has been obliterated. Other freedoms are not far behind. The vote to remain in the EU by the under-25 crowd is very much the same. It seems that if allowed, they will squander their freedoms for reasons even they cannot articulate.

    • I think no government money should go to any university with “no platform”, “safe space” or “trigger warnings” policies.

      • A college group hosting a controversial speaker handed out pacifiers to protesters that said something to the effect of “I survived the *speaker* tour”. Many of the protesters were unamused.
        I thought it was the cleverest thing I had heard of happening at a campus “protest” in the last few years.

    • Outstanding…………And anti-Brexit snob in the US should watch that and try and cling to their arrogance.

      • Facts seem to not appear in modern democratic debating. Long ago a statement of a free people of a State, mirrors this Leave vs. Remain issue. That statement in part “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State” . Is this to be free from tyranny?

      • Actually FredericE, what you tried to cite, actually says: “The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”
        They actually could have offered as a reason, something like the following:
        “The sun rising in the east, being necessary for a warm day at the beach in a free state; the right …..etc.
        has EXACTLY the same meaning according to the normal rules of English grammar. Whatever a militia is, is totally irrelevant.
        G

    • The quote at the end of the film from DH Lawrence is worth bringing out:
      “Men fight for liberty and win it with hard knocks. Their children, brought up easy, let it slip away again, poor fools. And their grandchildren are once more slaves.”
      Ain’t that the case?

    • From the last slide:-
      “Men fight for liberty and win it with hard knocks. Their children, brought up easy, let it slip away again, poor fools. And their grandchildren are once more slaves.”
      ― D.H. Lawrence
      Or to use an old saying from my Lancastrian heritage:-
      “Clogs to clogs in three generations”

      • On a similar note, there’s an old saying in the US “Shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in 3 generations”.
        Shirtsleeves being a working class garment.
        That is, the first generation generates great wealth, the children squander it, and the grandkids are back to working for other people again.

  20. Hello, with age comes not so much a case of being more intelligent, but the result of accumulated wisdom as to what has occurred in their hopefully long life.
    Now in my 90th year I can truly say, “Being there, done that” and can spot a fraud coming a long way off.
    We have always had what the US West called a “Snake oil salesman” . Budding politicians who mostly would have never made it in the Real World, so they take the politicial way to power and money.
    And they can always find a problem that we, the average citizen never realised that we had, and then of course we are told by them that their way is the only way to “Save ourselves from far worst things to come”
    Climate change is just the latest one to come along, and sadly its taken off, why ?
    Because it suits our present crop of politicians, who want to remain in their well off jobs.

  21. As with so many Warmist accusations, this is the precise opposite of the truth. The Warmists are the ones who want to steal economic growth and infrastructure resiliency from future generations, in the name of the false religion of catastrophic anthropogenic warming.

  22. He fails to point out that the vast majority of nonvoters were young. We have no idea how they think. We are not Obama who upon losing the midterm ascertained as his lesson that the nonvoters were in favor of his policies.

  23. Anyone less than 40 has never lived without the chains of Brussels and so is unqualified to have an opinion. They should not have been allowed to vote.
    Then again, all those old folks generate no wealth, they are only a drag on the economy.
    I suppose they should all be euthanized for the good of the under 30s.
    Do these ****ers understand what they are saying?
    Actually, I think they do.
    Criminals.

  24. Typical Nuccitelli. Certainly not “73% of voters under the age of 25”. It might be 73% of people under the age of 25 who bothered to vote.
    Sky Data 25 June:
    18-24: 36%
    25-34: 58%
    35-44: 72%
    45-54: 75%
    55-64: 81%
    65+: 83%
    Projection, not collection. The poll wasn’t designed to measure age turnout, so this is a guess, but others have come up with similar figures. The young didn’t bother turning out.

    • Spot on, Martin, I was about to point that out. As Mark Twain said “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.” Dana Nutcase deals in the latter, as do his partners in intergenerational theft – the climate hoaxers.

      • Not sure how many Sky Data surveyed. Lord Ashcroft surveyed over 12 thousand people who had just voted before the result was announced (and got the 52/48 split correct). His figures indicate that only 32% of 18-24 year olds voted, that 3.6 million did not vote (total electorate 46.5 million, votes cast 33.6 million) and that 76% of 18-24 year olds either voted Leave or didn’t care enough to vote. Not quite the story Dana Nuccitelli would have you believe. How young people in UK can view the catastrope that EU has brought to other young people in southern Europe with collapsed economies and huge unemployment and then vote for more of the same whilst accusing us oldies of selfishness escapes me. Most people I know having had 40 year’s experience of what morphed into EU voted to give their granchildren a chance of something better and a say in that.

    • Martin
      You are right and as I pointed out on the thread below –75% of the 36% who voted is only 27% of those eligible to vote in that age group. Nuccitelli is just using the usual alarmists twisting of figures tactic.

  25. “The problem is of course that younger generations will have to live with the consequences of the decisions we make today for much longer than older generations.”
    As a consequence of decisions made by the older generations, the younger generations are alive today.

  26. The generational voting gap may also reflect a problem with the schools teaching logic and critical thinking.

  27. No sense in pointing out that there would be no European Union to withdraw from without the efforts of the greedy old farts during WW2. History is so, like, yesterday.

    • There was once some minor activity called “The Battle Of Britain”. You ought to read what the old fart Britons did in it.

      • They had help from some like mined refugees from a devastated europe, who knew all too well what failure would bring.
        I salute every one of them that stood and fought what must have seemed an unstoppable juggernaut.

  28. Nuccitelli’s argument is a classic example of the unethical debater who doesn’t have a case. In its absence, he descends to ridicule, discredit by derision, and character assassination.
    Nuccitelli’s argument about generational differences also rests on the basic falsehood of cultural determinism — that one cannot think beyond one’s contemporaneous culture.
    This is the foundational mistake of Marxist/Leninist thinking — that there is no human independent mindfulness and therefore cultural propaganda controls all thought and development.
    This idea that humans are clay upon which propaganda would work its magic was the basis for the attempted ‘new socialist man.’ It failed abysmally.
    This is also the central idea of post-modern culture studies.
    There may have been a time when cultural determinism could be validly debated, but today the idea is beyond stupid.

  29. They make the assumption that the young people who did not vote would have followed their socialist teens in voting for remain. There is no way of knowing since they chose to abstain.
    Having abstained the question becomes why?
    Apathy would be number 1 reason.
    2nd reason might be, they trusted the older generations including their parents had enough experience to make a choice.
    All this intergenerational nonsense does not stand up to scrutiny. DO these accusers have a crystal ball that can foretell the exact nature of the world 20,30, 40, 50 and 60 years out? NO.
    In others words, this marxist confected outrage designed to cause trouble because they were beaten.
    The vote has to be ratified by parliament, but it would be a foolish parliament that defied the people’s vote.

    • > … it would be a foolish parliament that defied the people’s vote
      I’ve seen that statement before and asked this question before:
      What exactly do you think would happen if indeed the UK Parliament decided not to honour the plebiscite results ?
      So far, no sensible answers.

      • What exactly do you think would happen if indeed the UK Parliament decided not to honour the plebiscite results ?
        So far, no sensible answers.
        Insurrection

    • More likely, they just didn’t care enough. Which implies that they are fine with either outcome.

  30. Is there anything that points out that climate is really the issue and communism is the bottom line when the people who want to stay in the EU start using youth as their rallying cry? All is pretty much a fabrication without any bases. The only thing the greens are lacking at this point are armed soldiers. But First, they have to be able to silence the skeptics. It isn’t for a lack of trying. Which if the greens are trying to do that in more than one country, isn’t that close to racketeering?
    I think the writing was on the wall in England, money flowing out, rules and regulations flowing in. I don’t doubt that financial interest in the EU will try to punish England.

  31. Dana N and his ilk lost. He seeks a reason why. His published reason does not to have any merit.
    Why even give him further unreasoned voice here?

    • Because the more people see the ‘Greens’ red in tooth and claw, the less they’ll fall for the ‘Green’ BS.
      I honestly think Twitter may have saved the world by allowing the left to shout their obnoxious thoughts to all and sundry without a compliant media to ensure they’re filtered for sanity first.

  32. “However, we’ve already reached the point where even contrarian economists agree, any further global warming we experience will be detrimental for the global economy.”
    Which “contrarian economists” would he be blathering about… some may wonder? GK

    • The IPCC declared long ago that warming up to 2C from the pre-industrial was good. We are less than half way through that. Is Nuttichello disagreeing with holy script?

    • You know, that remark makes sense if “contrarian economists” is referring to economists who support his ludicrous ideology. I suspect he and other retainers took a leaf from Gruber’s book: depend on the stupidity of the voter. Fortunately, the Brits actually got a direct vote about this particular issue.
      All I got was increased premiums and decreased care. Thanks, scumbag senators.

  33. The human brain does not reach full maturity until age 35. How did the Framers of the US Constitution know this now well established fact, when requiring the president to be of this age?
    A society of humans all under 30 couldn’t function. Even Neanderthals had elders in their 40s and 50s.

  34. Richard Fernandez had this to say:
    “Essentially people much older than you gave you what you now take for granted. They won World War 2, fueled the great boom, walked through the valley of the shadow of nuclear death — and had you.
    You didn’t make the present, nor as you now complain, are you making the future. No children, no national defense, no love of God or country.
    “But that’s just it. You’ve brainwashed yourselves into thinking someone else: the old, the older, the government, the dead would always do things for you.
    “If you learn anything from Brexit, learn that nobody got anywhere expecting someone to do things for him.”
    Sounds right to me!

    • They have also allowed World War 2 – by appeasing Hitler, allowed Cold War – by being blind to the danger of communism until around 1946, made a giant debt, burned most easily extractable fuel, lost the Western superiority in technology to Asia, in case of UK – lost an entire empire that their predecessors had built – how spectacular! They allowed huge islamic immigration, and allowed the spread of this ideology in homeland. Essentially invented eco-nuttism. Now they are trying to mess up European integration.

  35. All of the comments here summarize all of my reasons for never as much as clicking a link to this vile leftist tabloid, never mind take anything it writes as something even remotely associated to anything truthful.

  36. The numerous comments here just summarize all of my reasons for never as much as clicking a link to this vile leftist tabloid, never mind take anything it writes as something even remotely associated to anything truthful.

  37. So those who have contributed decades of taxes and work are thieves as opposed to those who have contributed nothing? The opposite is happening. What is wrong with you, Guardian? Don’t you understand democracy?

    • Dana
      The Guardian understands what democracy is alright, that’s why they despise it and vehemently oppose it. That vile left-wing tabloid would be the most undemocratic publication in the free world. They advocate TYRANNY not democracy and only support speech that upholds their wicked party line.

  38. It was the “older” generations that made the original decision to join the EU … they have now realized their mistake … the young folks should STFU and get a job …

  39. If the staff at the Guardian weren’t embarrassed by publishing that incoherent screed (excerpted above,) why was I embarrassed reading it?

  40. Racism – climate change, Brexit -climate change.
    At least she is on the back of the bus where she belongs…oops sorry

  41. The brain of a female typically matures at about 18. The brain of a male at about 24. So the 18-24 demographic really aren’t up to making rational decisions.

    • Youth have little intelligence and experience and no wisdom, which would explain why these adults have successfully corralled them into being used to support global Communism.

      • I have met some brilliant and smart people aged between 18-24 when I was, myself, aged between 18-24. I am not sure intelligence makes a difference IMO and in my experience. I once, in the 80’s, trained a university student on his “work experience” part of his study. He had 8 or 9 London Board “O” level A and B grade certificates. A few “A” level A and B grade certificates, and I think even an “S” level pass certificate too. Some of these were in electronics, and yet, he did not know what an AVO was or what AVO means!!!

  42. Communists spread the same lies in the 60s. Remember the inane saying, “Don’t trust anyone over 30!”
    By the way, the guy who coined that phrase turned 30 in 1970 and is now approaching 80. Do you think he went quietly into the night back in the year that Apollo 13 was nearly lost?

  43. “However, we’ve already reached the point where even contrarian economists agree, any further global warming we experience will be detrimental for the global economy.”
    What the??? Evidence please.
    Dana, please share your wisdom – what is the perfect global temperature? If any further temperature rise is detrimental, was the world a better place economically 50 years ago, 100 years ago, when the temperature was about 1 degree cooler?
    Seems to me that we cope very successfully with significant daily temperature variations and even more significant seasonal temperature variations, yet another a degree rise in global average temperature will be catastrophic? Evidence please. Else label your blog as unsubstantiated opinions.

  44. Isn’t it interesting that the greens are snuggled up in bed with the bankers, free-traders and multinationals? These sought of people will sell their souls for power
    What fascinates me is the anger being spewed by the losers. They thought it was slam dunk. Politicians, financiers and economists who proclaim to know better than the common people were mostly all wrong footed. Experts?
    The anger now will be nothing compared to what would happen should they decide on a re-referendum. Britain would be the laughing stock of the world

  45. On the vote day here in the UK West Midlands my wife mentioned that quite a few people were walking by and to the nearby polling station. That was about 07:30. Never saw that behaviour with local and general elections in the past. Usually lethargic 20% – ish attendance
    I thought Remain would win due to the heavyweight VI’s appearing in the media and in rapid succession that week (Branson for instance). Think these strident walkers were the OUT brigade and they were between age 30 and 40. The walking stick brigade were much later after Pimms.
    I voted for the Common Market having lived in Germany/Holland in the 60s and 70s. Pleasant places then. Don’t think I would recognise it now…don’t want to really. Hopefully it all unravels shortly!

    • No you didn’t, well not before the UK was already inserted into the common market (CM). Ted Heath (Conservative) committed the UK to the CM before Jan 1st 1973, effective Jan 1st 1973. Labour at that time were bleating on about “we will hold a referendum about entering the CM”, an obvious vote grab as there was significant voter displeasure at what Heath did. A referendum was held in 1974, or more likely 1975 IIRC. That is when the people of the UK actually got the option to voice their opinion. I would say you voted to stay in the CM if you voted at all for the CM in 1974/1975. But by then the damage was already done.
      Heath was booted out in favour of Labour and after the winter of discontent in 1979, Thatcher won in a landslide win! She was the last to endorse the UN drive to “tackle climate change” which lead to the UEA CRU and the IPCC.

  46. Just wondering what the age demographics of WUWT commentators is, and whether this explains the absence of any counter-arguments here.

  47. No mention by Dana of the criminal waste of public resources on “climate change” sourcery and the inevitable impoverishment of western democracies like the UK.
    Without doubt no regime has more to answer for in this regard than the EU dictatorship.

  48. The whole premise is bollocks, 73% of 18-24 year olds did not vote remain. Yes 75% of those that voted chose remain but only 36% voted.

  49. They had a vote and over half of the 18 to 35 year olds couldn’t be bothered to use it. We old farts used ours. Theft? Huh!

  50. I suppose this lot read bits and pieces of Lord Stern’s Review, the cost-benefit study of energy austerity that ignred most of the benefits of global warming and enhanced CO2.
    They were probably looking for sound-bites and punchy headlines.
    Because they missed the voodoo economics related to intergenerational equity.
    Professor Stern tells us we must make sacrifices today to preserve the health and well-being of future generations. But look more closely, and you will see that this virtuous purpose would make future generations richer than we are today and richer thn our children and grandchildren.
    But the whole Stern Review is vitiated by the choice of a discount rate so low as to place almost no time value on the present.
    The Stern Review is all “pie in the sky, bye and bye”.
    Richard Lindzen once remarked that ordinary people have common sense but academics have no sense at all.
    Based of almost 50 years experience of cost-benefit analysis in the public sector, I think Dr Lindzen was too optimistic in limiting this judgment to academics

    • What do you mean the academics have no sense. They know they are on EU grants that may or may not be forthcoming after exit.

  51. So voting to leave the EU is “intergenerational theft,” but charging billions to the credit cards of our children and grand children to subsidize unreliable green energy and fund the UNFCCC ‘s Green Climate Fund is not? Does Dana Nuccitelli really believe future generations will thank us for wasting such huge sums of money and leaving them the bill?

  52. I’m tongue tied. I really don’t know what to say or write. The author openly suggests killing everyone to make the world a better place. There’s just no arguing with that; fewer people, fewer mouths to feed.
    Difficulty being they’ll be fewer to work.
    This was the inevitable conclusion of the Great Green Grave; live fast, die young, make a beautiful corpse. It was the goal of my generation.

  53. Dana has got it all arsey-versey. What a surprise.
    I have been better off than my parents, thanks to their efforts and the efforts of their contemporaries, including their paying for my education.
    My children are better off than I was at their age, I am delighted to say. As a result of the efforts of my generation.
    And so it goes on from generation to generation.

  54. About 80% of the older generation voted. But only about 35% of the younger generation did.
    If you want a voice, vote…

  55. When it’s being pitched as “carbon pollution” how do you expect the young, miseducated textgen to vote Dana?

  56. Intergenerational theft is Governments borrowing money today which will have to be paid back by children who are just beginning primary education – and their children too.

  57. The consensus in neuroscience is that your Prefrontal Cortex isn’t fully developed until you are about 25.
    An underdeveloped Prefrontal Cortex results in the following:

    Decision making: We often struggle to make good decisions when we are teenagers, but as we enter our 20s, our decision making improves. This is due to the fact that our prefrontal cortex helps us think logically and make more calculated assessments of situations. Our brain weighs the risks and tells us whether a certain behavior or choice is a good idea vs. a bad one.
    Logical thinking: Justifying behaviors based off of emotions rather than logic is common among teens. When the prefrontal cortex fully develops, logical thinking simultaneously improves. This means you will be better at rationalizing and making smarter choices. It also means that your ability to write and solve math problems will improve.
    Risk management: The ability to assess risky situations and determine whether they will result in long-term benefit is a byproduct of your prefrontal cortex. Those who are poor at assessing risk may have underdeveloped prefrontal regions. The ability to turn down immediate gratification for long-term rewards is a result of this region.

    The under 25s are more likely to succumb to peer pressure and to act emotionally rather than logically.

    • Total unmitigated bollox. Hundreds of generations of homo sapiens lived short, brutal lives curtailed by acute infection, infant maternal mortaility and acute injury ever before they reached 25 yoa, but long enough to advance and procreate. Evolution certainly doesn’t leave us short of a full deck until we’ve surpassed 25 yoa – “fully developed” doesn’t necessarily mean fully competent. Try telling that to Lancaster and Spitfire pilots of WW2, together with some of the youngest commanders in Fighter Command, all of them well under 25 yoa who in the modern, infantile parlance of the politically correct were able to “multi-task” brilliantly against nearly insurmountable odds, and who responded sublimely to the threat of Nazi totalitarianism. God help the Green totalitarian globalists when they loose their propaganda war, which they surely will. They’ll be intellectually slaughtered in their hundreds of thousands by motivated, focused young people who’ve suddenly decided to grow-up rather than put-up with the mind-dumbing, impoverishing and incarcerating drivel .

      • Also notice people like Bil Gates – doing some outstanding business at young age, and basically giving up at late thirties…

  58. Among the Brexit first casualties, the hugley expensive, proposed Hinkley Point C nuclear power station in Somerset. A Franco-Chinese funded project guaranteed sales of electricity at hugely inflated prices.

  59. Bob in Castlemaine has it , the inter generational theft that Dana refers to is every single cent that’s been wasted trying to mitigate a gas that’s vital for the life of every creature on earth .
    Put that sort of money into medical research and new technology we would be in flying cars and cancer free .

  60. All of this smells like another referendum will be held. Or at least they are trying really hard to scare everyone post Leave win in preparation for another vote.
    Ireland voted no to Nice and Lisbon and were made vote again

    • So true! Ireland was a very depressing place to live, and trying to work. I know I was there! But then the EU stepped in and demanded Ireland change their tax laws, effectively making Ireland a tax haven, attracting many international companies to setup their HQ’s in Dublin. I believe Google is still there. So from the mid-80’s billions and billions of Euros entered Ireland and so lead a boom. International companies migrated to Dublin, even forcing the country to build it’s first motorway. Then the claims that the multinational companies were not paying their way…y’know the 1%’ers.
      This action lead to a boom in property prices in Dublin, not much else anywhere else, and then came the collapse. Not many happy people in Ireland, esp, after having to vote “right” on Nice and Lisbon.

    • In the case of the UK, Cameron resigned. That did not happen in Ireland with their PM. So, a 3 month or so delay while a new leader of the Conservative party is found and thus, by default, becomes PM of the UK. Brexit will happen, for good or bad.

  61. What’s interesting is liberal fervor for Globalism. Soros and Rockefeller all the way.

  62. The world the young inherit is the outcome of effort put in by previous generations. To suggest that this toil is to be rewarded by denying those that did the work any say in what happens to it is beyond idiotic. Do any of these people think about what they are saying.

  63. My daughter and her partner are slightly older than I was when, as a naive youngster, I voted in the ’75 referendum, and voted to Remain in the EEC. That’s because I believed the likes of Heath and his lies about the Common Market not being a risk to our sovereignty.
    Well, I learned from that mistake (as a lot of fishermen did too) and over the years have got to understand the EU and it’s despotic rulers; its undemocratic ways; and its expansionist designs for the future. Most of all, I feared for the fact that the Commission and the Council of Ministers could not be sacked by the electorate: They controlled our very lives and corrupted everything they touched. I voted to Leave. Not so much Brexit, as Fixit.
    But my daughter and her partner voted to remain. when I asked why they said that it would probably be good for their businesses – but couldn’t explain how. They knew nothing of the democratic deficit and had no idea hoe the EU worked nor who was in charge.
    I’m glad Leave won because if Remain had squeaked it there would never be another chance of a referendum in 40 years’ time that would allow today’s young to correct their mistake.
    The full proof of the fact that Leave is the answer will be shown by the number of other countries who will follow suit over the coming years. Europe the Continent will survive and democracy will win.

    • Well said Harry. I also voted to stay in the ‘Common Market’ in 1975 and spent the last 40 years regretting it. As a young person, I knew everything, as we all think we do at that age. As you get older your gain wisdom and clear black and white issues fade into shades of grey.

  64. ” Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed”
    Words from the American Declaration of Independence. Unfortunately, those under 40 have no experience of living without the EU so were in no position to judge the difference.

  65. How cute. Just which age cohort is demanding free college, free health care (including sex changes), free cell phones, free food, free housing?
    Intergenerational theft, indeed – they plan to have the next generation (as yet unborn, most of them) pay for all of their free stuff.
    Wups, wait a minute, there’s a slight flaw here! The “free stuff brigade” is also overwhelmingly opposed to children being born; “overpopulation” you know. Hmmm. I think they’re going to find themselves in a bit of a pickle in not too long…

    • Darn .. he let loose at them, didn’t he.
      You could almost feel their guilty consciences burning.
      Great to watch and listen to !!

      • Another fine performance from Nigel as he tells them a few home truths (& gets a good amount of support from other MEPs at the end).
        I still think UK would be better in (& the system was changed) than out, where we have no influence.
        40 yrs ago we shafted the commonwealth in favor of our ‘new best EU friends’, now we have to go cap in hand & re-negotiate; we wont get good deals & I don’t blame them.…people have long memory’s.
        What I do fear is a return to tribalism, (verbal & physical post brexit racist attacks have already started), as a few nasty thugs think they now have a mandate; similar to 1930s Germany, we should remember what happened next !!

  66. Wisdom comes with age, not youth. Those who can remember the UK before the EU (pre-1973) wanted it back. Nuccitelli is too young to understand.

    • Those with age have the ability to look back and recognize mistakes and try to fix them. A trait sorely lacking in those who have no time to look back on.

  67. With Dana “Nutty” Nuccitelli, it is hard to know where to begin, as he employs logical fallacy after logical fallacy and blithely spews myths and outright falsehoods as if they were accepted truths. His use of intergenerational differences is classic Alinskyism. He opines that the climate issue is about “risk management” vs ideology, a clear case of both psychological projection and circular reasoning.
    The target of his political screed is of course “the youth” with whom he hopes to whip up emotion, since emotion is all he, and his fellow Climatists really have.

  68. Thanks, Eric, for reading one of Dana’s missives so I don;t have too.
    His writing (leaving aside what he writes) is awful – dense in both senses of the word.
    You’ve saved me 15 minutes of my life – thanks again 🙂

  69. So as usual the Guardian has got it wrong. Yes man pensioners did vote for exit but it still would not have won but for as one young man put it So many of our generation voting on facebook but not going out in the rain to put in an actual vote.
    Even this is misguided as the real reason was that most of the lower income groups turned out in force for exit as they have already seen significant dumping of unemployed EU entrants in their areas. this is already making depressed areas that have houses that sold previously for around £100,000 compared to five times that in London now virtually unsaleable at any price. They fear, and rightly, the effect leading to to same as part of Liverpool where the council sold homes for £1 to any non druggie. ( Of course the did not admit that straight.) Many of these voters still have 90% left to repay on the mortgages on these houses. These people know that remain in is not a vote for the same but for even more of EU legislation to degrade their lives for the benefit of the few.
    Of course this sort of person is not a Guardian reader who is typically a university lecturer on an EU grant.
    what surprises me is that so few of these university lecturers seem to be able to do basic arithmetic to see the Guardian is talking through its metaphorical anal orifice.

  70. “Youth will bear the brunt of the poor decisions being made by today’s older generations”. Newsflash Dana; youth always bear the brunt of the decisions made by the older generation (as in 1914, 1939, 1963, 2001, 2003 etc etc) that’s how life works.
    Regarding the vote to leave; If the EU of 2016 had been the EU of the seventies no brits would have voted to join in the first place. They are leaving now largely because of the betrayal of EU principles and the abandonment of democracy by the unelected despots of the European Commission, which is the only group in EU government which can propose and formulate law. It may be old fashioned,but quite understandable, to think that one’s own parliament of one’s own country should be making the laws for that country.
    It’s not a stretch to imagine that if there were obvious advantages to staying in the EU the British would be smart enough to see them and vote accordingly. One gets the impression that the disappointed whingers of the “remain” party are so because they see themselves losing some undeserved advantage which they will no longer have.
    One also can’t help but think that so many UK establishment figures are so upset by the vote simply because they have now lost access to all those wonderful sinecures in Brussels to which they feel entitled by their years (few as they may actually have been) of “service” to the nation

    • Chris: Totally agree. well said. Particularly the first para.
      Learning comes from making mistakes; wisdom comes from learning. Nutti thinks he’s never made a mistake, therefore he has no wisdom.

  71. Its too early to say with any certainty whether “In” or “Out” was the correct choice. However it is difficult to see how the EU can survive the economic and political tensions inherent in its current aims and chosen directions.
    To the youth of the UK I say: Look at the levels of youth unemployment across Europe because that is the reality that the EU is delivering to your age cohort.

  72. “… Dana Nuccitelli, writing for the Guardian, has launched yet another green attack on democracy, by suggesting that older people who voted for Brexit, or who vote against green policies, are committing “intergenerational theft”.”
    No, he is demonstrating that older people are generally harder to fool and less gullible than younger people.

  73. As an American I had no idea the extent of control the EU had over people. Thanks to all who commented. My only questions are why wasn’t the vote higher to leave, and why wasn’t it done sooner.
    So what the Guardian is saying is that they know better what’s best for the children than the dumb old adults? Who appointed the Guardian as Lord of the Relm? Who died and left them in charge?

  74. Rather than think of it as “intergenerational theft”, Dana should look at it as parents taking something away from a child before they hurt themselves with it…

  75. Of course, Dana, an American who lives and works in the US and only writes for the Graniaud, knows what’s best for the youth of Britain or anywhere else. And based on what he does write, regularly, it’s not clear if Dana knows what’s good for Dana, let alone somebody standing several thousand miles away.

  76. Now if Dana could just get the youth on social media to complain that it was not the right result last night when Iceland beat England 2-1……
    🙂

  77. Sorry Dana, we can’t help it all the young voters were out saving the whales, hugging the trees or mounting sit ins on some vital issue and had no time to go and vote. They all clearly had more important things to do because their turnout was the lowest of all age groups.
    The reality is the young didn’t turn up to vote because they obviously didn’t care. One could argue they were no more likely to vote for your crazy green politics, than they were to give two fingers up to the establishment and vote for a Brexit.
    Political lesson in this is those who actually get off their backsides and vote determine outcomes.

  78. “In last week’s Brexit vote results, there was a tremendous divide between age groups. 73% of voters under the age of 25 voted to remain in the EU”
    And 73% of folks under 25 can’t tie their shoelaces or wipe their own asses which raises a bit of a dilemma for their oldies who know better than them what life’s all about, but have to shoulder the blame for infantilising their offspring.

  79. Day of the Nuccitellis comes to mind. Bring back the Hammer Films studio for another horror flick.

  80. The problem we have is “cargo cult” economics. We have people who believe that if we simply return the UK’s status of the 1960’s, the world economy of the 1960’s will magically appear. We have a similar problem with that in the US where one candidate appears to want to Make America 1950 Again.
    The situation in Europe is similar to what would have happened in the US had the Articles of Confederation been allowed to continue too long and many of the same arguments are being made against the EU that were made against the proposed constitutional government that replaced them.
    Many of the arguments made for “Brexit” don’t even really apply to the EU, it was simply populist horse malarkey that was very effective at pushing emotional hot buttons. The migration issue was primary among those. The migration issue in the UK is the fault of the UK’s own Parliament and dates back to the late 1990’s when the Labour Party was running the government under Blair. The UK never gave up control of her borders to the EU and never joined the Schengen zone where border controls between EU states were removed. The UK retained their border controls. This is why there are camps of migrants in France trying to sneak into the UK.
    This is not going to end well but the problem is that it will take a couple of years for the pain to be felt. That is probably long enough so that many do not associate it will this vote and instead blame whoever is running the government at that time.
    More importantly, since the UK will likely try to remain within the economic zone (as Norway has), it will find itself subject to about 90% of the EU regulations it is currently subject to. The only thing they will find is that their 9% of the EU Parliament is now gone and they will have no influence on the crafting of those regulations. They are looking at trading membership in a representative body where they did have some influence for being subject to the rulings of that body without any representation and being completely irrelevant. This is the result of “cargo cult” populism.

    • Bollocks alert.
      Stop reading what the MSM have to say, look around and then get back to me. Norway my arse.

    • EU Parliament has no power.
      The UK member of the EU Council, which makes all decisions, is one out of 28 at the moment.

    • What evidence do you have crosspatch that we have ever held any influence at all – it would seem to me that the EU takes particular delight in making sure we ‘know our place’, and that is to do as we are told by those who know better. If we choose to trade with 90% of the regulations at least it is OUR choice to do so. I have been a member of the EEC (as we signed up to in 1975) for all 41 years since ratification and I cant think of a single moment where I thought my life was substantially improved by our membership. I am prepared to endure the pain of the next few years to be able to vote in the people who control my life – presently I dont have that privilege for at least another 2 years. I would lay my life down for my children and it goes without saying that I would risk my life now to see democracy returned to the UK and my children given the best possible future……..that was definitely not staying in this sclerotic association with the EU.
      I am heartily sick of listening to my childrens empty words about the EU – what a fantastic job our schools are doing on them. They tell their own father how wrong he is about the climate and about the EU, now there is a chance to unscrew the brainwashing

  81. Well in the end it’s estimated that between 60 and 75 percent of the 18-24 demographic neglected to vote. Had 75 % of them dragged thier carcasses to the polling station or indeed applied for a postal ballot and filled it in, and voted in the proportion suggested for that age group, then the vote would have gone the other way…. Don’t whine that something you didn’t bother to vote for has been “stolen from you” even if you can’t actually define what you think you’ve lost.

  82. 73% of 18-25 year old voters voted for Brexit. According to the Daily Telegraph today only 36% of this age group bothered to vote. Imagine what the result might have been if the average voter percentage (72%) was reflected in that age group. They might have got their wish (but be careful what you wish for; it might happen).

  83. One great thing about being old is that you were once young and can understand the folly of youth. Another great thing is that only parents know the importance of their kids to them. And finally, with age comes wisdom.
    They will figure this out in 20 years when they are the ones being blamed for robbing their kids of their futures.

  84. According to unverified, and probably unverifiable, reports in the Daily Telegraph the Queen has been asking her guests at dinner parties, “Can anybody give me three good reasons for staying in the EU”. There are no reports on any answers given.

  85. And that’s demagogic:
    The inter-generational theft of Brexit and climate change
    Youth will bear the brunt of the poor decisions being made by today’s older generations.

  86. You have to love the Nuccitellis of the world. On the one hand for an issue like global warming, the Nuttis believe the only people who should be allowed to vote are the “experts,” which requires wisdom acquired over time–i.e., older people. On the other hand, when the issue is who gets to make the rules, Nuttis believe the only people who should be allowed to vote are the ones who will live with the outcome for the longest period of time–i.e., younger people. Why don’t the Nuttis of the world condense their “voting rationale” beliefs into a single all encompassing statement? Something like: “The only people who should be allowed to vote are the people who agree with us.”

  87. Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves!
    Britons never, never, never shall be slaves.
    But apparently it’s OK for them to be a non-descript blob of ever decreasingly British flavored humanity buried deep in a sea of Euroblobs all ruled by a semi-secret non elected council of would be tyrants trying to create a super-state over which to rule. A rewrite is in order:
    Rule European Union, European Union rule the waves!
    Europeans ever, ever, ever shall be slaves.

  88. Perhaps it’s because the older people remember the lies that were told the time there was a vote.

  89. So, 73% was it? Or was it 73% of 37% of little snowflakes who could be bothered to actually vote.
    Could have been worse though, might have been 97%, and they could all have been constitutional experts.

  90. Also – they don’t know if the youth didn’t vote for the thing. They have all their surveys, but those surveys turned out to be wrong. How do they know the youth weren’t just afraid to tell pollsters they were “for” such a politically incorrect vote?

    • Whether they were marginally for or against is irrelevant since they didn’t care enough to actually get out and vote.

  91. Out by the skin of our collective teeth!
    Under the radical proposals EU countries will lose the right to have their own army, criminal law, taxation system or central bank, with all those powers being transferred to Brussels.
    Controversially member states would also lose what few controls they have left over their own borders, including the procedure for admitting and relocating refugees.
    The plot has sparked fury and panic in Poland – a traditional ally of Britain in the fight against federalism – after being leaked to Polish news channel TVP Info.

  92. Dana Nuccitelli is a nut. The older generation is trying to save the “world” for the youth by fighting the far-left Morlocks.

  93. If you take the Scottish ‘we’ve got our own agenda’ out of the equation (they dont want to be a part of the UK anymore if the SNP can be believed) then the result which wasnt particularly close in the end anyway would have been even wider.
    The Poles should understand (at least from my Brexit view of things) that the beef is not with them particularly or any other immigrant or residency issue – i t is just the catalyst for showing how cross I am with a political elite who think they know better than I do how my life should be. I personally welcome anyone as ethnic diversity has been this country’s strength for centuries – probably why democracy runs so deep. But to have a political elite that are entirely unwilling and/or prevented from providing security and equal opportunities for all walks of life angers me greatly. That illegal immigrants so easily get across our borders is bad enough but then for them to be to abused by gang leaders and unscrupulous employers is even worse. Our police force/customs/immigration service are neutered by political correctness that has its foundation in the EU and the unfairness and imbalance in our social and trading relationships is unbelievable.
    Thank goodness for common sense at last….. a chance to reboot the whole system ……Go Boris

  94. “Youth will bear the brunt of the poor decisions being made by today’s older generations.”
    Define poor decision… “We’ll see said the Zen master”.. Brexit isn’t per se a poor decision, Like all ethical questions it’s determined by the outcome. It depends entirely on the execution. It isn’t pellucid clear holding close to a commission that’s a non-democratic and willing to break it’s own laws is a good decision….

  95. I read a comment recently only I can’t remember where; but it went something like this:
    “It’s amazing how much abuse of the democratic process people can tolerate if they approve of the outcome”
    Conversely, it is amazing how little respect people have for the democratic process if they don’t approve of the outcome.
    Here’s a greenie approving of the arbitrary rules made up by unelected eurocrats, but griping about the result of a free and open vote.
    Yes, democracy can be very frustrating. But what else is there?

  96. Older people are much more familiar with the difference between predicted alarm and actual result. And judging by my 32 year-old nephew, the young keep sliding up the age scale.

  97. Here’s the poll that really counted when you asked the fickle, wobbly Euroweenies to put their money where their loud mouth is now-
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7806936.stm
    Yes when their dough was on the line they certainly knew where their bread was buttered and with the Italian banks failing and the Greek economy to be bailed out amongst the house of Euro cards, it was a portentous decision to keep the pound safe from all their sticky fingers and now to put an end to propping up Brussels real estate prices.
    London to a brick Queen Liz’s portrait will be around a lot longer than their pictures of old buildings and I note somewhat ironically that Islam doesn’t like depictions of the living either, so they are all well suited it seems.

  98. This is disgusting. But then it came from Dana Nuccitelli.
    Blech.
    Be comforted that the Guardian is on the rocks financially.

  99. The Guardian blame game . Who they going to blame for burning up their cash so fast they won’t exist
    in five years . Howl into the wind Guardian the people have left you in the dust .

    • Nobody reads the Guardian but the BBC’s Today news magazine prg is forever quoting from it which more than makes up for the lack of readership excepting that it does not pay the bills. Tough.

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