Another Model -vs- Reality problem – National Weather Offices: Canada, A Case Study With National And Global Implications.

Guest opinion: Dr. Tim Ball

An article by Lord Monckton outlined his involvements with Thomas Karl, Director of NOAA’s National Climatic Data Center in Asheville NC. It arose from a publication by Karl and others regarding global temperatures. The article, was apparently designed to influence the public debate as the COP21 climate conference in Paris looms. Monckton identified his appearance on behalf of the Republicans and Karl for the Democrats. According to Monckton, Karl said, “How do you expect to be taken seriously?” Monckton’s response that the data must be taken seriously is appropriate. However Karl appears to be speaking from the power of his position as a bureaucrat who controls the data and the politicians. It parallels a comment made by a bureaucrat after I gave a presentation, “What is your motive?” I replied, “Something apparently unfamiliar to you, the truth” The episodes identifies two major issues. First, the idea that if you accept AGW and the government position as correct you are left of center politically and even if you only challenge it you are right of center. To test this, ask yourself what the chances are of Monckton appearing for the Democrats or Karl for the Republicans. Second, is the power of bureaucrats to control the science and the politicians? For them the science is settled and therein is the problem of bureaucratic climate scientists.

It is time for skeptics in every nation to openly challenge what is going on in their national weather offices. It is occurring in some countries, but a greater effort is required. The public needs to know the extent of their role in the IPCC. They also need to know the level of inaccuracy in their short, medium and long-term forecasts, the latter exemplified by the failed IPCC forecasts. The focus here is on the role of bureaucratic control in climate and environmental issues, but it is part of the larger recovery of control of government. Politicians don’t seem willing to tackle the problem so it has to be a grassroots effort to remind them government is by the people and for the people.

Climate skepticism exists in some larger western nations. Where it does, and is effective, it is actively and excessively challenged. An example is the recent claim that skeptics should be charged under the organized crime legislation, or Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO). Generally, the nations actively involved produced computer models as part of the ensemble of model process, CMIP5, of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). This involves 20 models, but approximately 11 countries.

The challenge is in the smaller nations. I recently completed several hours of interviews for Romanian TV. The science reporter involved began writing a book on climate and realized that only the IPCC side was known in Romania. It is the case in most countries. The smaller nations only participate as members of the World Meteorological Organization (WMO), but are valuable for political objectives as their one vote is as valuable as a larger nations vote. This is the constant problem of the UN in all matters. The Maldives and sea level claims are an example of this exploitation. As Richard Lindzen explained:

IPCC’s emphasis, however, isn’t on getting qualified scientists, but on getting representatives from over 100 countries, said Lindzen. The truth is only a handful of countries do quality climate research. Most of the so-called experts served merely to pad the numbers.

 

Again Lindzen from his direct involvement with the IPCC wrote:

It is no small matter that routine weather service functionaries from New Zealand to Tanzania are referred to as ‘the world’s leading climate scientists.’ It should come as no surprise that they will be determinedly supportive of the process.

Maurice Strong deliberately set up the IPCC through the UN and the WMO. As Elaine Dewar concluded in her book Cloak of Green[1], Strong liked the UN because:

He could raise his own money from whomever he liked, appoint anyone he wanted, and control the agenda.

Strong controlled the political and science agendas through the weather offices of every nation. He wanted to create the science to prove human CO2 was the problem and then convince the public that lack of action is catastrophic. Using Weather Departments gave bureaucrats ascendancy over politicians because to challenge them put them in contradiction with their own experts, as the Karl Congressional appearance and comments confirm. They control the flow of information in every WMO country.

In 2007 Director of NASA GISS James Hansen, charged the White House with limiting his ability to speak out publicly. Several authorities challenged his claim, but especially his boss at NASA. The larger question is why NASA didn’t charge Hansen with a breach of the Hatch Act, which is specific legislation to limit political activities of Federal bureaucrats. From personal communication with Hansen’s boss, I know the answer was “word from above”. Ironically, the problem is not political interference, that always occurs and is their role, but rather that more and more bureaucrats are political. Who is in charge? If people can’t see the dangers of control by unelected officials then democracy is doomed. Mary McCarthy explains the problem. “Bureaucracy, the rule of no one, has become the modern form of despotism.”

 

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Canada

Recently a Canadian headline read “Liberal MPs hold press conference on muzzling of scientists”. As usual, the story is different than the headline. The real story is the growth of bureaucratic power in all parts of government. The more dangerous trend is bureaucrats establishing policy and effectively running governments.

Three Canadian MP’s repeated the views of the Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada, the largest Canadian multi-professional union. The Union held public rallies a week before the MP’s announcement protesting Prime Minister Harper’s government interference. An anonymous bureaucrat explained the protestations.

The challenge, he said, is two-fold: for one, lack of freedom to speak freely with the media; and second, the inability to freely disseminate research to the public in a meaningful way.

“Basically, whenever there’s a call or a need to speak to the public or an opportunity to speak to the public, everything has to be approved at generally a fairly high level,” he said. “Particularly if it’s going to be a national story or it’s going to be something that would be of general interest.”

Though local stories are generally approved, he said he still has to go through a “hierarchy of approval.”

This is a person who either did not read or understand the conditions of employment. Canadian Federal bureaucrats are appointed by the Public Service Commission Board, which requires peoplerefrain from overt political activity once in office, lest their appearance of partisan neutrality be compromised.” It is perfectly within the government’s purview to control policy and bureaucrats. The story illustrates the problems guaranteed to occur with bureaucratic scientists.

The protesting scientists are, almost all employees of Environment Canada. They are trying to prevent the Harper government redressing the use of that agency for a political agenda under a previous government. That government deliberately excluded Canadian climate scientists from participating in the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).

For example, I travelled with eight others to Ottawa for a press conference to contradict Minister of the Environment David Anderson’s claim that they consulted all Canadian climate scientists about the Kyoto Protocol. We announced we were not consulted. At the time Anderson had not announced his climate policy and said he was in no hurry to do so. Suddenly, he said he would present the policy in the House of Commons and by coincidence it was at exactly the same time as our press conference. As a result, few media attended our conference.

The Canadian scientists protesting about government interference clearly don’t realize they are not practicing science. They promote an untested, unproven hypothesis when it is the role of scientists to challenge any hypothesis. Scientists must be skeptics otherwise they are not practicing science. Bureaucratic scientists must produce support for their government’s political positions or risk losing their jobs.

Environment Canada’s IPCC Role And The Damage Done.

Environment Canada was very active with the IPCC and promoting their agenda from the start. It is no coincidence that the Chair of the 1985 meeting in Villach Austria at which the structure of the IPCC was formulated was Gordon McBean, Assistant Deputy Minister of Environment Canada (EC).

It took a massive diversion of funds within EC to pursue their goal. The Auditor General said EC spent $6.8 billion from 1997 to 2005 on climate change. Almost all of this went to people and programs supporting the government position. Diversion of funding to climate change left other legislated requirements incomplete.

To cover these diversions they took money from other programs. There are fewer weather stations in Canada now than in 1960, many replaced with unreliable Automatic Weather Observing Stations (AWOS). Many important activities and data collection practices were abandoned. While I was chair of the Assiniboine River Management Advisory Board (ARMAB) in Manitoba the worst flood on record occurred. We asked Water Resources why they didn’t forecast the event. They said they had no data on the amount of water in the snow in the valley. We learned EC canceled flights that used special radar to determine water content. Savings, as I recall, were $26,000. The cost of unexpected flood damage was $7 million to one level of government alone. Loss of weather data means long continuous records, essential to any climate studies, are impossible.

EC failures caused public protest forcing them to take action. They commissioned an internal study and report titled “Action Plan for Climate Science Research at Meteorological Service of Canada (MSC)” prepared by a group called The Impact Group. This was obtained by Canada’s Access to Information (ATI) provision. Ken Green wrote an article in the National Post on December 12, 2003 identifying some of the issues. Here is the major conclusion of the Impact Report that shows why EC did not want it disclosed.

Elements of an “Action Plan for Climate Science Research at MSC” (obtained through an Access to Information request) indicate that Canada’s climate change science program is being driven by a predetermined political agenda with a clear disregard of scientific needs. The Impact Group observes for example, that Canada collects “less climate science data per-square-kilometer of any other major country.” It observes that “the archiving of climate data is so highly fragmented that it is difficult to find out what datasets are available, let alone how to access them.”

Yet the report shows that our resources are not being directed to remedy those information gaps. Rather, our climate resources are being directed toward finding ways to “mitigate” climate change before it’s even adequately measured. The Impact Group also points out that we are only just beginning “to unravel the complexity of the physical, chemical, and biological interactions that determine climate” and suggests that the manmade component of climate change is still to be discerned. Coming from a contractor to Environment Canada, that’s a pretty sharp divergence from the claims by Environment Minister David Anderson that the science of climate change is “solid” and “settled.”

Gordon McBean was a major participant in the singular and devastating direction EC took. He brought his political view of environmental issues and particularly global warming expressed in a speech to the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) in 1995.

As the Canadian government web page noted at the time;

Environment Canada is a strong supporter of, and an active participant in, the IPCC. Dr. John Stone (Environment Canada, retired), holds a position on the Bureau and Working Group II, Impacts, Adaptation and Vulnerability. Art Jaques, Director, Greenhouse Gas Division, Environment Canada, is a member of the Task Force Bureau on National Greenhouse Gas Inventories. As well, over 30 Canadian scientists from government, universities and the private sector are participating as authors and editors for the IPCC’s Fourth Assessment Report.

John Stone’s position is critical as the liaison between the Arctic Climate Impact Assessment (ACIA) group directed by McBean and the IPCC. The ACIA Reports are almost the sole source for Arctic coverage in the 2007 IPCC Report.

Green spoke about the exclusion of Canadian skeptics that the Report confirms.

Skeptics of catastrophic climate change theory such as myself have long complained that the way governmental agencies conduct science is badly politicized. We have also complained about a lack of consultation – although some of the most reputable climate scientists in the world work in Canada, they have rarely been consulted or asked to advise the government on the science of climate change.

In 2006, 60 prominent Canadian climate experts wrote a letter to Prime Minister Harper asking for an open debate on global warming. It began,

As accredited experts in climate and related scientific disciplines, we are writing to propose that balanced, comprehensive public-consultation sessions be held so as to examine the scientific foundation of the federal government’s climate-change plans.

McBean orchestrated a response letter with another IPCC member, computer modeler Andrew Weaver. They got 90 signatures, but most were Environment Canada employees or people benefiting from government largess.

Another egregious example of EC’s failure was cancellation of their financial support for a joint program with the National Museum of Canada in the 1980s and 1990s. Run under the auspices of the National Museum of Natural Sciences it was titled “Climatic Change in Canada During the Past 20,000 years.” This program brought together a multitude of experts in all different aspects of climate and climate reconstruction and produced volumes of collected papers, published in Syllogeus by the museum that put Canada in the forefront of climate research and reconstruction. To my knowledge none of these experts was called to testify before Parliamentary hearings on Kyoto or were appointed to the IPCC. EC deliberately excluded Canadian climate experts – something that continues to this day. Climate change became political and unaccountable because bureaucrats at EC controlled it.

But McBean wasn’t done. He also established his post-bureaucratic career by using $61 million of taxpayer money to set up the Canadian Foundation for Climate and Atmospheric Sciences (CFCAS) “Canada’s main funding body for university-based research on climate, atmospheric and related oceanic work.” Its job was to fund climate research beyond EC, he took over as Chair shortly after he retired. CFCAS did what EC did, that is essentially only fund people who agreed with their political position. As Wikipedia notes, “The foundation has invested over $117 million in university-based research related to climate and atmospheric sciences.” McBean continues to serve on the CFCAS Board but is also Research Chair of The Institute for Catastrophic Loss Reduction. His work is widely recognized by the insurance industry.

A simple definition of science is the ability to predict. If your prediction is wrong your science is wrong. How good is the “science” these Canadian bureaucrats produce? The answer is, by their measure, a complete failure. Figure 1 shows the accuracy of their weather prediction for 12 months over the 30-year span from 1981 to 2010.

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Figure 1

 

Notice that for 90 percent of Canada the forecast average accuracy is given as 41.5 percent. A coin toss is far better odds.

They are no better at longer forecasts. They spend millions on computer model projections for the IPCC. Several nations produce model projections that are averaged to make claims about future temperature. All the models are wrong, but the Canadian model performs worse than any other (Figure2).

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Figure 2

Here is what two climate experts said about the Canadian model.

“The differences between the predictions and the observed temperatures were significantly greater (by a factor of two) than what one would get just applying random numbers.”

As Ken Gregory explained,

They explained that a series of random numbers contain no information. The Canadian climate model produces results that are much worse than no information, which the authors call “anti-information”.

Any scientist or academic who carves a career out of a particular topic or position is in danger of the predicament Tolstoi identified.

“I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives.”

The problem is even worse for a scientist/bureaucrat, especially those at Environment Canada. Once they convinced the politicians that CO2 and global warming was a problem they were on a treadmill. They could not tell politicians, who based strong public positions on the information obtained from EC, that they were wrong. They could not act, as science requires, by adjusting to new evidence. They set out to guarantee the truth of their claim that the science is settled. Worse, as members of the IPCC they ignored evidence, created false data, adjusted records to create desired results. They effectively said the science was settled, which is never true. If you collect the Nobel Prize together you accept the blame together. This is what happens when scientists are bureaucrats.

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Skeptics make scientific critiques showing the errors of IPCC science, but avoid the political issues. That is understandable, but will not stop the corruption of climate science. It is time to change tactics. I know simple logic works. I also know most scientists avoid politics of the climate agenda so here is a very effective message for skeptics using simple science when talking to the public. Point out what the public already laugh about, namely that weather forecasts of even a few days ahead are consistently wrong, yet the weather offices talk with certainty about global warming in 20, 30 and 50 years. The usual explanation is that weather forecasts are different than climate forecasts. Point out that climate is the average of the weather, so if the weather is wrong the climate is wrong.

It’s time for skeptics of every nation to look at what is going on in their weather office. There is something seriously wrong when they can publish completely failed results with impunity and yet still demand credibility over policy. Skeptics need to expose how the bureaucracies are used for a political agenda and do it with inadequate data and corrupted science.


[1] Cloak of Green: The Links between Key Environmental Groups, Government and Big Business, Elaine Dewar, Lorimer Press, 1995.

An abbreviated version of parts of this article appeared here.

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Coeur de Lion
June 8, 2015 7:52 am

I’m saddened that the UK Met Office is equally entrapped by the warmist agenda.

crosspatch
June 8, 2015 8:04 am

“There is something seriously wrong when they can publish completely failed results with impunity and yet still demand credibility over policy. ”
That’s the entire point of what they are doing. It isn’t about the climate, it isn’t about CO2, it isn’t about “saving the planet”. It is about enacting policy that fits their geopolitical agenda and they are USING fear of climate change to get people to buy into the policies effecting that agenda. If I can control a country’s CO2 production, I control its economy. If you want to increase the production of ANYTHING, you need to use more energy. If you use more energy, you either create more CO2 or you must go to my pals in the “green energy” business and pay them or you must move your production to an area where there are no restrictions on CO2 (see “global redistribution of wealth” ).

Mark Fraser
June 8, 2015 8:31 am

Anderson – still a leech – drawing multiple pensions while biting the hand…..

June 8, 2015 8:36 am

OT. My Pc since this morning only on the WUWT website is driven ‘nuts’ by some kind of jerky playstation advert. I don’t have playstation and never clicked on an add for it. Text is unstable and the blue ‘Reply’ links are floating all over place. Anyone knows how to get rid of it.

Reply to  vukcevic
June 8, 2015 2:56 pm

I once raised an issue with WordPress about a couple of adverts, and they said they had no contract with the perps. Some adverts can be hijacking operations. If you use Chrome or Firefox (and clones) install the uBlock extension. Can easily be switched on and off. Generally I leave it off for WUWT and similar services that I support, but occasionally there is an outbreak of drive-by attacks, and I turned it on this morning. uBlock currently showing 13 adverts blocked which is high. For me, WUWT usually has about 4, so if they are well-behaved I leave them alone.

Juice
June 8, 2015 8:38 am

I don’t know if I’d go around calling the instrumental global temperature anomaly “reality.”

Eliza
June 8, 2015 8:55 am

Things that actually may work: to convince people how wrong they are re AGW. Add in All the Atmospheric Physicists, meteorogist, Freeman Dyson, ect and you will get people to turn.
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/72653

minarchist
June 8, 2015 9:26 am

Somewhere, there is an email, “We have to get rid of the pause”….

David A
Reply to  minarchist
June 9, 2015 6:50 am

LOL, Yes, I think so.

TomRude
June 8, 2015 9:48 am

Dr. Tim Ball, the links to the McBean open letter all link to dean ends. Would you have a link that works?
thank you.

TomRude
Reply to  TomRude
June 8, 2015 9:48 am

I meant dead ends

Tim Wells
June 8, 2015 10:45 am

I respect Dr. Ball very much, but I have to disagree with this statement, ” I know simple logic works”. No it doesn’t. ‘Climate change’ is not a logical issue, it is a political one. And in politics it is not the quality of your facts that counts, but rather the power of your propaganda. The same goes for this website, WUWT, which is a fantastic resource, a beacon of truth, and a destroyer of warmist disinformation. But it cant lay a glove on the propaganda machine, and we sceptics never will until we learn to use the same weapons that they do. The warmists use fear, and we sceptics respond by calmly trying to use the facts and logic to dispel that fear. Game over, forget it, they have lost interest. We have to replace one negative emotion with another, and that is why a focus on the greed and avarice of the al gores’ and david suzukis’ of this world is maybe our only effective tactic.
How long can the fear campaign of the warmists pay dividends for them? I asked Lord Monckton this question in Brisbane recently, and his answer was discouraging. He simply pointed out to me that the ‘silent spring’ myth was started more than 60 years ago, and yet every year since then, untold numbers of African children have continued to die from malaria.

steve in seattle
Reply to  Tim Wells
June 8, 2015 7:42 pm

I think Tim W’s comments are very to the point and speak to the reality of what is now . Here in WA state, the current governor and the two before him have NO interest in hearing current climate science or solar physics. More to the point, their public appearances are carefully planned and scripted so that they get coverage by a sympathetic media, while speaking to a “favorable” audience. There is NO chance that he will ever allow himself to be caught in a public forum where he will have to answer any questions that challenge the CO2 “agenda” . It IS about power, scripting and propaganda. Bring a knife to a gunfight ?

June 8, 2015 11:33 am

“Bureaucratic scientists must produce support for their government’s political positions or risk losing their jobs.”
Yeah, this is a foregone conclusion and the main problem we are dealing with in the US and EU. Canada is at least a dissenter along with Russia and Japan on Kyoto 2. This is a good time (last chance?) to maybe have an influence on policy.
In 2007 IIRC, I sent an email to the weather network to tell them that my forecasts were better than theirs by simply knocking off a couple of degrees from their forecasts. Their 14 day trend always curved up at the end and then was forced back down as the time approached the forecast. It was clear that warming was already a factor in their calculations of short term weather. They never replied. McBean, of course, was, years ago a very doctrinaire president of the Public Service Alliance union.

asybot
Reply to  Gary Pearse
June 8, 2015 1:35 pm

Thanks Gary I have noticed the exact same thing. I also am in contact with EC employees, when I ask questions their answers are almost as if you are in the old soviet era, can’t talk. can’t comment etc etc. It is discouraging and frightening to see people like them being manipulated by pressure, (jobs etc ). I hope some will become whistleblowers. We are paying their wages after all.

Stuart Jones
Reply to  asybot
June 8, 2015 9:37 pm

you should point out to those EC employees that it will be them held to account as their “bosses” will run at the first sign of a change. If they dont come forward now and blow the whistle, they will be the ones in the dock, and “I was only following orders” doesnt cut the mustard.

waterside4
June 8, 2015 11:38 am

Thank you Doctor Ball for your usual erudication.
As a scathological commentator on the Mann Made Global Warming scam, I prefer to take the ‘Michael’ out of the doomster warmists by ridiculing their stances.
I notice that Johanus 8/6/15 0403 and Andres Valencia above refer to Lynsko. What a coincidence, as I use that ‘hero’ of the Global Warmists in my bit of doggerel below.
Apologies to the great Neil Sedaka and his lyricist Howard Greenfield who made “Oh! Carol” which I have plagiarized.
Oh! Karol
Oh! Karol you take me for a fool
You see Global Warming,
You deny it’s getting cool
You fake it
Make real scientists cry
No one believes you
For your figures lie.
I never thought I would see another
Crook like Lynsko
Tell me it’s warming
In ten feet of snow.
The UN says ‘we must save the planet’
By stopping CO2
Oh! Karol
You’re among the chosen few.
Oh! Karol
Science you ridicule
Your computer models
Would fail the kids at school
I can’t take it
Your conclusions apple pie
To foretell the future
Were you using scry*
The UN says ‘we must save the planet’
By stopping CO2
Oh! Karol
You’re among the chosen few.
(I hope Neil Sedaka does not sue!)
* To foretell the future by crystal gazing.

Village idiot
June 8, 2015 12:47 pm

“It is time for skeptics in every nation to openly challenge what is going on in their national weather offices.”
Problem is, Brother Tim, there just aren’t that many of them:
http://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/survey-reveals-countries-where-citizens-dont-want-climate-change-action/story-fnjwvztl-1227388408028

Reply to  Village idiot
June 8, 2015 1:26 pm

Even more so in Canada, which due to its size and location with its major role in controlling the evolution of the N. hemisphere’s climate.
It was place where the last Ice Age stated and ended, it is the country where the Holocene end will be heralded from.
It is technically and culturally advanced country (my closest living relative a proud Canadian citizen for some decades, always bragging about his contribution to the advancement of his new homeland, exalting the Canadian temperature summer winter differential of 60 degree C, while his other half never stopped cursing the cold winters) so it is their duty, I mean Canadian climatologists, as from the ‘climate change responsible country’ (see my comment at the top of the thread, which ended in unintended place, as this one may too) to take a lead and give us a good solid scientifically accepted climate change theory. In that respect we have to welcome the rare and rational voice of Dr. Ball.

mebbe
Reply to  Village idiot
June 8, 2015 9:24 pm

So, Village idiot, you and a whole bunch of other village idiots want to change The Global Climate?
If we dissenters are few in number, why don’t all the village idiots just go right ahead and change The Climate to whatever it is that you want it to be?
It would be perfect; you lot could finally stop whining about how the weather doesn’t suit you and we would be struck mute by your awesome climate-changing power.

ren
June 8, 2015 1:07 pm

Meanwhile, Canada is the most exposed to the cooling due to the decrease AMO and the position of the magnetic field (a decrease in solar activity and galactic radiation growth).
http://weather.gc.ca/saisons/animation_e.html?id=month&bc=sea

June 8, 2015 1:08 pm

V. Idiot,
Here is the headline of your link:
Survey reveals countries where citizens don’t want climate change action
That headline could mean just about anything. I’m sure it means something special to you.

MarkW
Reply to  dbstealey
June 8, 2015 3:28 pm

Isn’t he just special.

ren
June 8, 2015 1:19 pm

With a drop in solar activity will be polar vortex was located on the Bay of Hudson. Will not help any fraud.
http://oi61.tinypic.com/23uae80.jpg

June 8, 2015 1:34 pm

ferdberple June 8, 2015 at 6:23 am
@vukcevic
“Clearly the LIA cannot have resulted from CO2. As such, the lack of explanation for the LIA argues strongly that modern warming is a result of the same mechanism. Which means it cannot be due to CO2.”
+100%. If we do not know extent of the natural variability contribution, it is not possible to estimate to any sensible degree of certainty possible anthropogenic factor.

Paul Murphy
June 8, 2015 3:37 pm

Dear Dr. Ball:
Uhuh, and your solution to the role of politics in driving warmism is to apply politics to skeptisim? You must be a liberal if you think that you solve a problem by doing more of whatever caused it – and that, bottom line, is what this article says.

Peter
June 8, 2015 3:55 pm

A key point indeed, Dr. Ball. Skeptical bloggers might win whatever scientific battles they are fighting in – but they lose the war. Climate change is a most important “raison d’être” and the posterchild of the worldwide bureaucracy. The so called civil servants are never going to relinquish control over anything, however pointless it may be. Far too late …

warrenlb
June 8, 2015 4:31 pm

So tell us how it is that if the Greenhouse Effect already accounts for a ~60F elevation of global temperature vs what the earth’s temperature would be without an atmosphere, how can steady increases in CO2 (which account for about a third of the total greenhouse effect) not warm the planet? Which elements in this chain of physics do you accept, and which do you reject?

garymount
Reply to  warrenlb
June 8, 2015 5:18 pm

Water vapor makes up ~95% of the GHE, leaving ~5%, or 1/20th for all the other molecules, not 1/3 for Carbon Dioxide.

Reply to  warrenlb
June 8, 2015 6:18 pm

warrenlb says:
…how can steady increases in CO2 (which account for about a third of the total greenhouse effect) not warm the planet?
Good question. The answer: it is an empirical observation that the rise in CO2 has not caused any global warming.
And:
Which elements in this chain of physics do you accept, and which do you reject?
That comment is just projection. Skeptics are very different from you. Skeptics accept verifiable measurements and empirical observations. If new facts arise that would make skeptics reconsider our conclusions, we have no problem with that.
But you will only accept whatever factoids support your confirmations bias, while any facts or observations that falsify your belief system are arbitrarily rejected. No matter how many observations contradict your personal beliefs — even 18.5 years of no global warming — those observations are rejected because they do not fit your world view.

troe
Reply to  warrenlb
June 8, 2015 6:27 pm

FIFA exists to spread the beautiful game. The
International Olympic Committee exists to spread the spirit of the Olympic Movement. The EPA’s top climate bureaucrat was a griffter. The EC appears to be the same.
Corrupt institutions are frustratingly difficult to reform. Better to defund them and be done with.

Reply to  warrenlb
June 8, 2015 6:53 pm

What real science rejects Warren is that you’ve started with a conclusion, and then you’ve ended with …
wait for it ….
…. the same conclusion, whooo hoooo. How did that happen ?
Why don’t you try putting the data before the conclusion, and see what happens.
(You don’t know what I’m talking about, do you?)

Gerald Machnee
Reply to  warrenlb
June 9, 2015 10:53 am

The effect of CO2 is logarithmic, so after the first 100 parts per million or so the effect is diminished. The first part caused the greatest effect. Doubling after 400 ppm will never cause 2 deg of warming. Read the following explanation by David Archibald:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/05/08/the-effectiveness-of-co2-as-a-greenhouse-gas-becomes-ever-more-marginal-with-greater-concentration/

MarkW
Reply to  warrenlb
June 9, 2015 10:59 am

There are many greenhouse gases, at varying levels of saturation.
Since CO2 is already pretty close to saturated, adding more of it, has very little impact, especially when you consider that fact that most of the CO2 bands that aren’t saturated overlap with water.
This is basic physics, though I’m not surprised that you didn’t know it already.

bit chilly
June 8, 2015 5:37 pm

it comes as a great surprise to read that anyone in this day and age thinks elected politicians actually “run” anything in any of the developed nations. there is not one single one of these nations that would notice a change in the day to day function of their societies if all the politicians were to disappear off the face of the earth.
elected politicians come and go,the bureaucrats remain the same ,and now they appear to have realised the influence they have and use it to further their own aims,politically and financially . i have said it before,the meek have inherited the earth and currently there is very little that can be done about it.

vigilantfish
Reply to  bit chilly
June 8, 2015 7:25 pm

In the lead up to the coming Canadian federal election scientists in the civil service have protested being gagged by the Conservative government. It is possible they really think this is true. However, the gagging policy is rooted in bureaucratic agenda devised across all federal departments in the wake of the scandals that followed the collapse of the Northwest Atlantic groundfish stocks in 1992.
When Ransom Myers and Jeffrey Hutchings went public to highlight the role of overfishing and poor management in this catastrophic collapse, they were acting in defiance of orders from the Deputy Minister of Fisheries and senior scientists in the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. They got massive media attention and embarrassed the department, which was insistent that the fish populations had collapsed due to climate change.
The MSM loved this defiance and the argument that the government had mismanaged the fisheries (the Conservative Party under PM Mulroney had been in power at the time of the collapse). In the ensuing months journalists began fishing around for stories of other gross failures in government funded science.
It took several years, but the gagging policy was put in place to suppress dissenting government scientists from challenging the ‘official’ science. Nowadays, journalists seeking to find out even quite mundane information have to wait for weeks to months as individual scientists in charge of certain research or research programs have to have the requests and their responses cleared through successive levels of authorization.
Tim Ball is right – the bureaucracy is in charge. They can arrange things so that the hated Conservatives will take the fall for policies that bureaucrats themselves devised and enforce – such as the elimination of research libraries at the marine and environmental research stations. The scientists will quiet down again if the Liberal Party gets power in the fall election and resumes funding of science (some of which in fact has undeservedly suffered under the Conservatives eg environmental monitoring of toxic wastes, and some of which, like the politically motivated clim-sci, got its just desserts.)

Reality Observer
June 8, 2015 6:11 pm

Ah, you only need to read the other article today, on “surprising” non-variability in weathering rates through glacial / inter-glacial periods.
“And now, scientists Kate Maher and Daniel Ibarra from Stanford University (USA), who specialize in using computer models to understand how the flow of water controls weathering, have compiled data on river-to-ocean flow from an ensemble of climate models and have calculated the average discharge from rivers at different latitudes during glacial and interglacial times.”
You see, you haven’t lost any weather data. The “correct data” is now coming from the models, not anything so horribly unreliable as actual instruments in the field. And that flood you mention never happened, it’s just a wet dream (sorry, could *not* resist) of the denialists.

June 8, 2015 6:50 pm

Reblogged this on The GOLDEN RULE and commented:
One of the fundamental factors in the basis for my criticism of global warming alarmism is explained in this extract:
“Maurice Strong deliberately set up the IPCC through the UN and the WMO. As Elaine Dewar concluded in her book Cloak of Green[1], Strong liked the UN because:
He could raise his own money from whomever he liked, appoint anyone he wanted, and control the agenda.
Strong controlled the political and science agendas through the weather offices of every nation. He wanted to create the science to prove human CO2 was the problem and then convince the public that lack of action is catastrophic. Using Weather Departments gave bureaucrats ascendancy over politicians because to challenge them put them in contradiction with their own experts, as the Karl Congressional appearance and comments confirm. They control the flow of information in every WMO country.”
Another fundamental factor is that the IPCC temperature projections depart from reality, generally sufficient basis for a scientific claim to be invalidated.

Scott
June 8, 2015 7:31 pm

Dr. Ball,
I realize I may be asking for more of an opinion, rather than something you’ve specifically researched. So at that risk, I will ask – do you believe an honest evaluation of the terrestrial temperature record will show its been intentionally altered to prove a CAGW case?
(Do t know if you read and respond to these questions, but I would love to hear your opinion).

Gerald Machnee
Reply to  Scott
June 9, 2015 6:05 am

It has already been shown here and at Goddard’s site.

bushbunny
June 8, 2015 8:07 pm

When ‘they’ hide their data from investigation there is a reason. They only want their comrades to say it is ok, but to others it becomes only hearsay? It is well known in academic circles that one can corrupt the data to suit one’s hypothesis. Statistics is another area of bias. E.G. If one asks a millionaire or millionaires do they pay their taxes correctly, the answer is ‘See my accountant’. Fair enough, they employ accountants and expect them to do their job properly and by the law. Ask some lower income person, and they will say ‘ of course my taxes are paid, my employer takes them out for me’. What does it prove? Accountants are employed so their millionaire pays the least tax they can within the law. Bleeding nothing, according to statistics both groups pay their taxes.
I have a friend who was suffering from an unusually hot day, and they blamed it on climate change or AGW? You can’t argue with her. Are we getting so bleedin’ stupid! Or more easily conned by those who have a hidden agenda. I know a right wing Green, and unfortunately like a lot of hippies is basically anti-establishment. The problem is when they are high on pot, has anyone tried to have a sensible and constructive argument or discussion with them. No you can’t, all you get is a one way diatribe of their opinion. Like the ice sheets are melting. The earth is warming unnaturally (what’s natural) and oil companies are behind all this. What about green or clean energy merchants eh? Are they without sin?

June 8, 2015 8:38 pm

As for why Hansen was not charged with violating the Hatch Act? I was once Federaql employee, and I was told the Hatch Act. It prohibited participating in political campaigns, which meant campaigns by or for (or against) specific politicians and political parties. The way I understood it, campaigning for causes as opposed to candidates and parties was allowed.