By Christopher Monckton of Brenchley
“What Evidence,” asks Ronald Bailey’s headline (www.reason.com, April 3, 2015), “Would Convince You That Man-Made Climate Change Is Real?”
The answer: a rational, scientific case rooted in established theory and data would convince me that manmade climate change is a problem. That it is real is not in doubt, for every creature that breathes out emits CO2 and thus affects the climate.
The true scientific question, then, is not the fatuous question whether “Man-Made Climate Change Is Real” but how much global warming our sins of emission may cause, and whether that warming might be more a bad thing than a good thing.
However, Mr Bailey advances no rational case. What, then, are the elements of a rational, scientific case that our influence on the climate will prove dangerous unless the West completes its current self-shutdown?
Here is the mountain the tax-gobbling classes who tend to favor profitable alarmism must climb before they can make out a rational, scientific case for doing anything about our greenhouse-gas emissions.
The tax-gobblers’ mighty mountain
| Step 10. Would the benefit outweigh the cost? |
| Step 9. Can we afford the cost of CO2 mitigation? |
| Step 8. Will any realistic measures avert the danger? |
| Step 7. Will warmer worldwide weather be dangerous? |
| Step 6. Will temperature feedbacks amplify that warming? |
| Step 5. Will greenhouse-gas emissions cause much warming? |
| Step 4. Are humankind raising CO2 concentration substantially? |
| Step 3. Are humankind increasing atmospheric CO2 concentration? |
| Step 2. Is a consensus among climate experts compatible with science? |
| Step 1. Has any climate warming beyond natural variability taken place? |
If the answer to the question at any Step from 1 to 10 on the stony path up the tax-gobblers’ mighty mountain is “No”, there is no rational, scientific basis for climbing any further. Unless one can legitimately reach the top by answering Yes to all ten questions, there is no credible justification for any investment of taxpayers’ funds in trying to make global warming go away.
The mountain that the tax-gobblers have to climb is tall, steep, and difficult. Every policy-maker must climb that mighty mountain, and none can justify shelling out a single red cent on thwarting Thermageddon until he shall have demonstrated, at each step, that there is rational, scientific justification for climbing above that step. Gird your loins, sharpen your crampons, and grip your cromach. Let us climb.
Step 1. Is global warming exceeding natural climate variability?
No.
Step 2. Is consensus among climate experts scientific?
No. And there isn’t one anyway. A recent paper by paid propagandists trying to prove that there was a consensus inadvertently proved that there was not. Cook et al. (2013) claimed that 97.1% of 11,944 papers on “global climate change” endorsed the consensus, which they defined in their introduction as the “scientific consensus” that “most current warming” is anthropogenic. However, setting aside the fact that there has been no “current warming” for getting on for two embarrassing decades, the authors’ own data file shows that they had marked only 64 papers out of 11,944, a dizzying 0.5%, as endorsing the “consensus”.
Step 3. Are we all guilty of increasing CO2 concentration?
No, not necessarily. True, our emissions of CO2 and its atmospheric concentration are rising, but anthropogenic CO2 represents only 3% of the total free CO2 in the Earth-atmosphere system. But in logic – it cannot be repeated often enough – mere correlation does not necessary imply causation.
Professor Murry Salby, late of Macquarie University, Australia, has established that it is the time-integral of temperature changes that causes changes in CO2 concentration, leaving little or no room for any detectable anthropogenic contribution. He is not alone in his findings. If he is right, there is no need to posit any role for CO2 or other anthropogenic influences. On that analysis, climate sensitivity may well be zero.
Cross-correlations by Professor Salby between CO2 change and temperature change. He has found by detailed inspection that the observed record shows CO2 concentration change lagging temperature change by about 8-10 months, approximately the lag that would be expected on the basis of an atmospheric residence time of about 5 years. It is a settled principle of logic that that which occurs second cannot have caused that which occurred first.
Step 4. Is CO2 concentration rising to dangerous new levels?
No. Mr Bailey says CO2 concentration is 30% higher than the 800,000-year peak. So what?
Step 5. Will greenhouse-gas emissions cause much warming?
No – and, on the evidence to date, certainly not as much as the IPCC predicted.
Near-term projections of warming at a rate equivalent to 2.8 [1.9, 4.2] K/century, made with “substantial confidence” in IPCC (1990), for the 303 months January 1990 to March 2015 (orange region and red trend line), vs. observed anomalies (dark blue) and trend (bright blue) at less than 1.4 K/century equivalent, taken as the mean of the RSS and UAH satellite monthly mean lower-troposphere temperature anomalies.
Step 6. Do temperature feedbacks amplify direct CO2 warming?
No. Measurements suggest feedbacks are negative, attenuating direct CO2 warming.
Furthermore, the range of mean global surface temperature change over the past 810,000 years was just 3.5 Cº either side of the long-run average – about the same as the range of temperatures permitted by an ordinary household thermostat. It is difficult to alter the Earth’s temperature, because the atmosphere is sandwiched between two vast heat-sinks: the oceans below and outer space above.
Global surface temperature change over the past 810,000 years, obtained by halving (to correct the result for polar amplification) the temperature anomalies inferred from atmospheric δ18O ratios in ice cores from Vostok station, Antarctica. Absolute global temperature has varied by little more than ±1%.
Step 7. Will warmer worldwide weather be dangerous?
No. A growing body of papers in the literature finds climate sensitivity low – about 1 Cº per CO2 doubling. That is not enough to be harmful.
Steps 8-10. Will any realistic measures avert the danger?
No. Whether mitigation measures should be attempted in any event is an economic question, answered by investment appraisal. The UK’s $8333-per-auto subsidy for electric cars will serve as an example. The two initial conditions for the appraisal are the fraction of global CO2 emissions a mitigation measure is intended to abate, and the cost of the measure.
Going nowhere slowly: The Chevrolet Volt
Typical gasoline-powered auto engines are approximately 27% efficient. Typical fossil-fueled generating stations are 50% efficient, transmission to end user is 67% efficient, battery charging is 90% efficient and the auto’s electric motor is 90% efficient, so that the fuel efficiency of an electric car is also 27%. However, the electric car requires 30% more power per mile traveled to move the mass of its batteries.
CO2 emissions from domestic transport account for 24% of UK CO2 emissions, and cars, vans, and taxis represent 90% of road transport (DfT, 2013). Assuming 80% of fuel use is by these autos, they account for 19.2% of UK CO2 emissions. Conversion to electric power, 61% of which is generated by fossil fuels in the UK, would abate 39% of 19.2% (i.e. 7.5%) of UK CO2 emissions.
However, the battery-weight penalty would be 30% of 19.2% of 61%: i.e. 3.5% of UK CO2 emissions. The net saving from converting all UK cars, vans, and taxis to electricity, therefore, would be 4% of UK CO2 emissions, which are 1.72% of global CO2 emissions, abating 0.07% of global CO2 emissions of 2 μatm yr–1, or 0.00138 μatm. From eqn. (2), assuming 400 μatm concentration at year end on business as usual, forcing abated by the subsidy for converting all UK cars to electricity would be 5.35 ln[400/(400-0.00138)], or 0.00002 W m–2, which, multiplied by the Planck parameter λ0, gives 0.000006 K warming abated by the subsidy.
The cost to the UK taxpayer of subsidizing the 30,000 electric cars, vans, and taxis bought in 2012 was a flat-rate subsidy of $8333 (£5000) for each vehicle and a further subsidy of about $350 (£210) per year in vehicle excise tax remitted, a total of $260.5 million. On that basis, the cost of subsidizing all 2,250,000 new autos sold each year (SMMT, 2013), would be $19.54 bn.
Though the longevity of electric autos is 50% greater than that of internal-combustion autos, the advantage is more than canceled by the very large cost of total battery replacement every few years. No allowance for this extra cost is made. Likewise, the considerable cost of using renewable energy to bring down the UK’s fossil-fueled generation fraction from the global mean 67% to 61% is not taken into account, though, strictly speaking, an appropriate share of the cost of “renewable” electricity generation should be assigned to electric vehicles.
Dividing the $19 bn annual cost by the warming abated gives a unit abatement cost of $3400 tn K–1. Abating the 0.013 K projected warming by global methods of equivalent unit cost would thus cost $45 tn, or approaching $6500 a year per head of global population, or almost two-thirds of $71 tn global GDP.
Stern (2006) wrote that the cost of allowing the then-projected 3 K warming to occur over the 21st century would be 0-3% of global GDP. IPCC (2013, WGII) puts the cost at 0.2-2% of GDP. Assuming that 1 K 20th-century global warming would cost as much as 0.5% of GDP (in fact so small a warming would cost nothing), global mitigation by methods of equivalent unit cost to the UK’s subsidy program for electric vehicles would be 128 times costlier than adaptation.
In general, the cost of mitigation is 1-2 orders of magnitude greater than that of adaptation (Monckton of Brenchley, 2012). Affordable measures are ineffective: effective measures are unaffordable. Too little mitigation is achieved at far too great a cost. Since the premium is 10-100 times the cost of the risk insured, the precaution of insurance is not recommended.
Mr Bailey’s evidence
With that background, let us look at the evidence Mr Bailey adduces. He concedes that the warming rate since 1979 is 0.12-0.16 Cº decade (RSS and UAH respectively). But that is half of the rate predicted by the IPCC in 1990. He asks how we can be sure that the rise in greenhouse-gas concentration just happens to coincide with an entirely natural increase in mean temperature. But that is not what skeptics say. For it is possible that CO2 has contributed to the slight warming of the past 260 years, but it is not likely that CO2 is the major cause of the warming. Absence of correlation necessarily implies absence of causation, and the mismatch between the fluctuations in CO2 concentration change and temperature change demonstrates absence of correlation and hence of causation, at least in respect of the fluctuations.
Mr Bailey asks, “What about converging daytime and night-time temperatures?” That indicates two things: first, that there has been some warming, which is not denied; secondly, that the likelihood of severe storms outside the tropics is diminished, for it is temperature differentials, not absolute temperatures, that drive the intensity of storms. Sure enough, the IPCC admits in its 2013 report that there has been no increase in extra-tropical storminess (and none in tropical storminess, either).
Next, Mr Bailey cherry-picks a couple of months of the year and says that in those months northern-hemisphere snow cover is less by about a tenth than it was in the 1970s. Well, we had no means of measuring snow cover reliably till right at the end of the 70s; and besides, in the rest of the year there has been little, if any, decline in snow cover. Northern-hemisphere snow cover shows little change in the satellite era.
Next, Mr Bailey – who has certainly picked up all the talking-points – talks about Arctic and Antarctic sea ice, but without noticing that neither the extent nor the trend of global sea ice has changed much in the entire 35-year satellite record.
Next talking-point: Greenland, where Mr Bailey excitedly tells us the ice mass has been melting at 215 billion tons a year. However, he somehow fails to point out that the summit of the Greenland ice sheet was 2.5 Cº warmer than today a few thousand years ago, and the ice did not melt; and that from 1992-2003 a vast study area on the Greenland ice-sheet showed the ice growing at a rate of 2 feet per decade; and that even if we could measure accurately how much Greenland is gaining or losing ice 215 billion tons a year would cause an annual increase in sea level 0f – wait for drum-roll – half a millimeter.
Next, Mr Bailey, still on message – just the wrong one – says “most of the world’s 130,000 mountain glaciers are also disappearing”. No, they’re not. Actually there are more than 160,000 of them and nearly all of them are in Antarctica, which has not warmed in the satellite era, so there is no particular reason for the glaciers to vanish, and they haven’t vanished. One of them is 40 miles wide and 250 miles long.
In those parts of the world where there has been some recession of mountain glaciers, such as the Alps, researchers are finding long-lost medieval forests, mountain passes and even an entire silver mine. Besides, the retreat of the mountain glaciers began in many places in 1880, long before we could have had any influence.
And there is evidence that all but the very highest peaks of the Cordillera de Merida in the Andes were ice-free thoughout most of the Holocene. They are not ice-free now.
Next, water vapor. Mr Bailey cites a couple of studies that say there has been some increase in column water vapor in the atmosphere since 1982. However, the ISCCP satellite data, probably the most accurate way of determining this tricky variable, do not show column water vapor increasing.
Mr Bailey has his science wrong here. He says, “As temperatures increase by 1 Celsius degree, global average water vapor in the atmosphere is expected to increase by around 7%. No, the carrying capacity of the space occupied by the atmosphere for water vapour is expected to increase by 7% per Celsius degree, in accordance with the Clausius-Clapeyron relation. Just because the atmosphere can carry more water vapor, that does not mean it will. The atmosphere is not 100% saturated.
Then we are told precipitation is increasing. Well, the IPCC did not quite say that in its latest assessment report. It said confidence was high that precipitation had increased over northern-Hemisphere land areas since 1901, but that confidence in rainfall gains or losses elsewhere was low.
So let us look at the longest northern-Hemisphere mid-latitude rainfall record we have, to get some idea of how much the change in precipitation has been. Here goes.
Less than two inches more rain per year after a quarter of a millennium. Not at all easy to distinguish that from natural variability.
Mr Bailey is no Pause Denier. He admits there has been little or no warming recently, and cites Roy Spencer’s analysis of 102 models that found they had all exaggerated the warming trend by a factor of 2-5. Yet he trots out the ClimComm talking-point about the “missing heat” having gone into hiding in the ocean.
So let us look at the rate of ocean warming, measured by the 3600+ ARGO automated bathythermograph buoys.
Much of Mr Bailey’s reasoning is based not on the observed data nor on theory but on predictions. For instance, he cites an article in Nature Climate Change, a less than reliable rent-seekers’ rag, predicting that the warming rate will rise to 0.25 Cº per decade by 2020. But the IPCC predicted short-term warming at 0.28 Cº per decade as far back as 1990, and the warming rate since then has been half what it predicted. Why should we now believe predictions that have proven exaggerated by double?
Mr Bailey says the main reason for his conversion to the Temple of Thermageddon is that some researchers think climate sensitivity to a doubling of CO2 concentration might be as high as 6 Celsius degrees. But the main reason for these high-sensitivity estimates was the belief that the Bode feedback-amplification equation would apply unmodified to the climate, and that in particular no homeostatic asymptote would bound the output temperature.
The graph of the Bode equation shows that if feedbacks are strongly net-positive the equation would lead us to expect rapidly increasing climate sensitivity. But it does not apply to the climate. Researchers had wandered into a field with which they were not familiar, and had made the huge mistake of assuming that an equation that represents the behavior of dynamical systems such as an electronic circuit is applicable unmodified and undamped to dynamical systems such as the climate. Well, it isn’t. And without it, high sensitivity vanishes.
Mr Bailey concludes by asking:
“If generally rising temperatures, decreasing diurnal temperature differences, melting glacial and sea ice, smaller snow extent, stronger rainstorms, and warming oceans are not enough to persuade you that man-made climate is occurring, what evidence would be?”
Well, if Mr Bailey does me the courtesy of reading the above, he will realize that temperatures are not rising by much, glacial ice-melt (if occurring) is on too small a scale to raise sea level by much, global sea ice extent shows little change in two generations, ditto northern-hemisphere snow cover, there has been little increase in rainfall and (according to the IPCC) little evidence for “stronger rainstorms”, and the ocean warming is so small that it falls within the considerable measurement error.
The evidence he adduces is questionable at best on every count. The Temple of Thermageddon will have to do better than that if it wants to convince us in the teeth of the evidence.
I have presented much of the evidence in the form of simple graphs. Do readers like the way the graphs are presented, many of them with a small “Post-It note” highlighting the main point?
Conclusion
Back we go, down the tax-gobblers’ mighty mountain to base camp. Our attempt to climb it has failed at every single step. Even with the aid of CO2-emitting helicopters to lift us and our equipment to each new step as we fail to climb the one below it, no rational scientific or economic case can be made for taking any action whatsoever today in a probably futile and certainly cost-ineffective attempt to make global warming that is not happening as predicted today go away the day after tomorrow.
The correct policy to address what is likely to prove a non-problem – and what, even if it were every bit as much of a problem as the tax-gobblers would wish, could not by even their most creative quantitative easing be cost-effectively solved by any attempt at mitigation – is to have the courage to do nothing now and adapt later if necessary.
The question is why, in the teeth of the scientific and economic evidence, nearly all of the global governing class were so easily taken in or bought out or both by the strange coalescence of powerful vested interests who have, until now, profited so monstrously by the biggest fraud in history at such crippling expense in lives and treasure to the rest of us, and at such mortal threat to the integrity and trustworthiness of science itself.
What’s the story with the “entire Silver mine” ? I missed that coming out from under a glacier. Where ?
It was from a few years ago. Somewhere in the Alps. A Roman era silver mine was uncovered by retreating glaciers.
SteveAstroUk and MarkW: I haven’t heard about a silver mine, but on the internet you’ll find the following by Albert Hafner on archaeological discoveries at Schnidejoch and other ice sites in the European Alps .
He says: ‘Only a few sites in the Alps have produced archaeological finds from melting ice. To date, prehistoric finds from four sites dating from the Neolithic period, the Bronze Age, and the Iron Age have been recovered from small ice patches (Schnidejoch, Lötschenpass, Tisenjoch, and
Gemsbichl/Rieserferner).
Glaciers, on the other hand, have yielded historic finds and frozen human remains that are not more than a few hundred years old (three glacier mummies from the 16th to the 19th century and military finds from World Wars I and II).
Between 2003 and 2010, numerous archaeological finds were recovered from a melting ice patch on the Schnidejoch in the Bernese Alps (Cantons of Berne and Valais, Switzerland). These finds date from the Neolithic period, the Early Bronze Age, the Iron Age, Roman times, and the Middle Ages, spanning a period of 6000 years. The Schnidejoch, at an altitude of 2756 metres above sea level, is a pass in the Wildhorn region of the western Bernese Alps. It has yielded some of the earliest evidence of Neolithic human activity at high altitude in the Alps. The abundant assemblage of finds contains a number of unique artifacts, mainly from organic materials like leather, wood, bark, and fibers. The site clearly proves access to high-mountain areas as early as the 5th millennium BC, and the chronological distribution of the finds indicates that the Schnidejoch pass was used mainly during periods when glaciers were retreating.’
Furthermore it’s up to the catastrophists to prove the case. From the proposition that carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas it does not follow that the world is headed for doom. For me the failure of the models is the failure of the whole theory of the catastrophe… Saying that I admit there is a certain irresponsible allure upon one’s imagination of a global catastrophe, but reason and history instructs that doom prophesy is weak theology. See Millerism and the Millerites.
“The question is why, in the teeth of the scientific and economic evidence, nearly all of the global governing class were so easily taken in or bought out or both by the strange coalescence of powerful vested interests who have, until now, profited so monstrously by the biggest fraud in history at such crippling expense in lives and treasure to the rest of us, and at such mortal threat to the integrity and trustworthiness of science itself.”
Hmmm, because people who are elected to office or appointed to office are stupid and venal?
Just a question, not a statement!
Yes, perhaps the elected politicians are a rather stupid bunch of people.
But they are not the only ones being fooled; most of the journalists in the world must also be quite stupid, and nearly all the university professors and research scientists of course.
But the mostly self thought laymen using most of their time on blogs are so incredibly intelligent that they have revealed the truth. Soon will the rest of the world follow and thank them.
Yes, that is how it must be.
Or …?
Just a thought
/Jan
well you can study the science for yourself and find out the truth or you can take a “consensus” propaganda as gospel.
just a thought and no passive aggressiveness intended
ps. most scientists don’t buy this. journalists? did you ever consider environmental journalists have a conflict of interest in political bias and the fact the supporting AGW is the only way to get their story published? Donna Laframboise was able to put that aside even though she was a feminist liberal. She found some interesting stuff to say the least.
Oh, I think you took the sarcasm too far there Charlie, nobody could believe this, could they?
http://www.aaas.org/sites/default/files/migrate/uploads/1021climate_letter1.pdf
/Jan
Lord Monckton, your central error is in assuming that logic has any place in the era of Truthiness.
Instead of either Bailey’s general lead question* or Monckton’s general lead question** I offer the following general lead question. General lead question: Doesn’t the corroborated climate evidence show that “[w]hat we have seen is that the climate is probably insensitive to increases in greenhouse gases, and that there is little reason to suppose that a warmer world will be notably characterised by storminess and extremes though both are part of normal weather variability“***?
* Ronald Bailey (@ur momisugly Reason.com) asks the general question, “What Evidence Would Persuade You That Man-Made Climate Change Is Real?”
** Christopher Monckton (lead post) asks a general question, “[H]ow much global warming [. . .] emission[s] [of CO2 from fossil fuels] may cause, and whether that warming might be more a bad thing than a good thing [?]”
*** quote from Dr Richard S. Lindzen in his conclusion to his chapter in the book ‘Climate Change: The Facts’ (Kindle Locations 810-812). Stockade Books. Kindle Edition.
John
I would replace question (step) #5 with “Has any concentration of CO2 ever driven global temperatures to the exclusion of natural drivers?”. The answer of course is “No”, and that alone nullifies any argument that Bailey et al. may offer.
I’m a BSEE who has done considerable RF/Microwave/mmWave modeling on active and passive circuitry and built hundreds of amplifiers, filters and oscillators. From experience I can say that circuits built with no feedback tend to match the simulations quite nicely provided all elements and parasitic values are entered into the model. As soon as feedback is added (especially with positive gain) the difference between the model and the actual circuit can become quite different. When building these circuits one must remember there is “The Rule of Oscillation: Oscillators won’t. Amplifiers will.” The physical circuit is, of course, doing exactly what it is supposed to. The problem is that when the feedback loop is closed every parameter in the model of the circuit (especially the loop components) needs to take every variable into account. Only until the unknown variables are added to the simulation, and the simulation matches the observed output can the model be trusted. Even then, there are no assurances that everything has been accounted for (i.e. that the simulation is valid over other initial conditions). Any loop equation for modeling the atmosphere has to actually contain hundreds or thousands of variables that the models can’t possibly account for. Until the simulation output can match the observed output the models are little more than an interesting exercise.
in plain English we have almost no idea how our climate works. That is the most important part of this debate that rarely gets addressed. Even if the temperatures have been closer to computer model prediction there is no valid evidence it correlates to raised levels of co2. if the temps start to downtrend as some people predict the alarmists will just change the narrative to fit that change. This whole thing is a narrative..a religion..not science
Quite so. The so-called, self-appointed I.P.C.C. railway engineers have created computer “models” which cannot even “predict” what has gone before, never mind what may happen in the future. Their religion (created by Albert Gore et al) is based upon TAX-GOBBLERS MONEY as Lord Monckton so aptly puts it.
PS: it was “cooling” in the 1960’s from the U. K. and the U. S. A., then “warming” in the 1970’s emanating from Sweden, then Albert Gore made proclamations in 1989; he then abused science with his hockey stick lies; now the BBC and other so-called main stream media and certain universities and hangers-on receive millions of pounds and dollars of OUR MONEY with the support of government.
Have a look at this and see what you think …
that is creepy. i have thought for a while that this is the biggest scam since ww2 germany. the Western world really think that these things can’t happen anymore. The government would never do such a thing., well an environmentally friendly liberal government wouldn’t
When the poop hits the fan myself and all the sane people from this website will be locked to the useless media outlets that dragged this along for over 20 years. They will have to turn coat on the dime and the fireworks of blame are going to be incredible. This is possibly the the most bizarre worldwide plunder of fraudulent science in history
It’s all BS and it’s bad for you folks
– George Carlin
This is only the beginning: they won’t stop now.
For a detailed analysis of this denier’s claims please see…
https://bbickmore.wordpress.com/lord-mo.ncktons-rap-sheet/
I’d ask you for a link to any alleged failings of “Jim”, but your post provides all I need to know about you.
Your comment is too plebeian for words. (Use a dictionary if you have one).
Jim: For a detailed analysis of this denier’s claims please see…
https://bbickmore.wordpress.com/lord-mo.ncktons-rap-sheet/
I got a “file not found” message.
Do you have evidence (with sources) rebutting any of the claims in this essay?
You have to remove the period (full stop) in the surname, but don’t bother it’s just a tin foil hat site with personal attacks against Mr. Monckton, Dr. Spencer, Mark Steyn and others, by someone who claims to be a concerned Republican. No discussion of science whatsoever.
To which add this: http://www.parliament.uk/business/news/2011/july/letter-to-viscount-monckton/
Warren, citing Barry Bickmore’s blog is NOT the way to convince a skeptic he’s wrong.
@Michael 2.
?? I’m not the one that cited Bickmore. Check links before posting.
I must disagree with the assumption of “the very large cost of total battery replacement every few years”. I’ve been driving a Prius for 10 years and 220k miles so far. I’m still on the original batteries and have no indication that the batteries will need replacing anytime soon. The body is likely to fail before anything in the drivetrain, including the batteries.
Anecdotes are not data but neither is there any evidence in the Toyota maintenance documentation or history to suggest that my experience is unusual. I am all for a proper accounting of the full costs – just don’t overcount costs without evidence.
http://www.autoblog.com/2013/06/20/nissan-leaf-battery-replacement-will-cost-100-month/
Nissan have brought in a replacement battery program for the Leaf where you pay about $100/month for a replacement battery that you should expect to need after 60 000 miles. There is a big difference in battery life depending how much you discharge the battery. its shorter when discharged completely often.
Driving 220K miles in 10 years suggests that you are cruising most of the time in the Prius and not draining the batteries often like in stop start driving.
My neighbor has a Prius –same experience. He’s long passed 200K miles with heavy commuting in the DC metro area, with no battery problems or replacement.
warrenlb re the Prius.
Yes true to a certain extent. But it is a hybrid not a true all battery motor. Yes I own one as a second car. Its economical on fuel but it still needs the power of the petrol engine to recharge the battery on the go most of the time.
Oh and nice to know my Prius can probably achieve 200K ! Did I buy it to mitigate my ‘carbon’ print NO I bought it for my wife after she ‘dinted’ my highly prized Jag. She loves the Prius and I admit so do I for local shopping , parking but not on extensive trips.
There are several problems with the quoted calculation:
Firstly 30% more power per mile because of battery weight. I drive a Corolla and a Nissan Leaf, similar sizes, the Leaf slightly bigger, but that is quite negligible. The Leaf is 25% heavier (1505 vs. 1280 Kg). That means that it would require less than 30% extra power even if the power consumption increased linearly with weight, but it does not. A 25% heavier vehicle uses less than 25% more energy because much of the energy goes to air resistance and friction which is independent of weight.
Secondly you have to count in the regeneration of braking power in electric vehicles. I measure my Leafs’s energy use to 1.4 KWh/10 km, similar to 0.16 liter /10 km, or a mileage of 147 miles gallon. That is approximately one fifth of my energy use with the Corolla.
Thirdly, “transmission to end user is 67% efficient, where did you get that number? According to US Energy Information Administration the average transmission loss in US is only 6%. http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=105&t=3
Lastly, all energy sources are not born equal. Energy sources for electric power generation is abundant and produced locally, but petroleum is a scarce resource which for a large part is produced in hostile countries.
/Jan
If we were to increase the number of electrics on the road to 10% of the fleet, we would have to more than double the amount of electricity generating capacity in this country and almost all of that additional power will be coming from “hostile countries”.
Electric plants may be local, but the fuel to run them isn’t always.
I am afraid you are ill informed there Mark.
Us electricity generation was 4 093 Billion KWH in 2014
http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=427&t=3
Vehicle miles travelled in the US annually is 2,953 billion miles
http://www.ops.fhwa.dot.gov/freight/freight_analysis/nat_freight_stats/docs/11factsfigures/table3_6.htm
Passenger cars 2,630 billon miles
Trucks and vans 323 billion miles
The electricity consumption if 10 % of the passenger cars were converted to Nissan Leaf would be
263 billion miles * 2.24 KWH/mile = 589 Billion KWH. That is an increase of 13%, which is far from a doubling.
If you also count in the trucks and vans, you just get another 5% increase.
Besides, even if we replaced all fossil fuel vehicles with EV, which would indeed require that the electricity generation were more than doubled, there would still be no need to import the energy sources. The resources of nuclear and eventually renewables could easily cover this increase.
/Jan
If the whole fleet went electric, we’d need to add 20% to generating capacity.
Jake, I get a higher number when I compare the US statistics with my own statistics form use of Nissan Leaf.
I measure 2.24 KWH/mile.
The US fleet of passenger car travel 2,630 billon miles (link above)
This gives 5 890 Billion KWH
The US electricity generation was 4 093 Billion KWH in 2014 (link above)
That means that we would need to increase the electricity generation by 143%
It is a huge number, but it can be achieved by using either coal, gas, nuclear or renewable as a source.
The electricity could even be produced from approximately 60% of the petroleum saved by elimination the combustion cars. Oil as source for power production is probably the most expensive alternative, but we would save 40% of the crude even if we produced it with this way.
I would prefer a combination of nuclear and renewable though.
/Jan
“. . . petroleum is a scarce resource which for a large part is produced in hostile countries.” Of course, the USA has, in spite of the efforts of our benighted President, has increased domestic production of oil to the point where our imports have dropped to a fraction of what they were about 10-15 years ago. In addition, most of our imported oil comes from Canada and Mexico these days. I remember reading US Energy Information Administration statistics at least 7 or 8 years ago indicating that annually, we only imported about 11% of our foreign oil from the Middle East. That percentage has likely decreased significantly in the past two years alone – and would be even more so if our President would open up federal lands to drilling. I am also aware that the UK has discovered billions of barrels of oil in southern England, which they will have to consider exploiting as their North Sea wells production slowly reduces; I think they will do it exactly because it is good for their economy to do so. So I am not as anxious as you are about sources of energy being “unequal.” The internal combustion engine will continue to be a strong player both here in the USA as well as around the world, because it is still, relatively speaking, the cheapest energy we can use.
Good point Larry
But imagine if most of the combustion engines were replaced with EV, the US could then switch from being an oil importer to an oil exporter.
This will lower the world’s oil price and leave more of the oil to the next generations.
/Jan
My preference is to include a step asking “Is there conclusive evidence the climate models provide accurate forecasts of the future climate?”
This would short-cut a lot of these steps.
Unfortunately, I have been informed that Christopher Monckton, 3rd Viscount Monckton of Brenchley is a bad person, so I can’t believe anything he’s says even if it true.
It’s not the absurdities in his personal resume that condemn his science — that stands (or rather fails) all by itself.
Care to share with us your own “personal resume”, so that we can judge its relevance ?
u.k.(us),
Good question. You have popcorn, I presume?
I’m heavily invested in all the popcorn companies 🙂
It seems that warrenlib is hiding out…
[Snip. Final warming: No more ad hominem attacks. ~mod.]
warrenlb “The resume of an Authority among skeptics.”
So it is. What’s in your wallet?
Kuldebar,
Your comment is amusing. You forgot the “/sarc” sign-off. As we all know, the truth has nothing to do with whoever posts it.
Of course, Monckton of Brenchley is a very good person — a far better person than any of his detractors. None of them have his character <—[lookin' at you, warrenbot].
On the off-chance that you weren’t kidding, who told you that? Names, please.
Good essay. Thank you.
I did like the graphs, and I liked the little “post-it notes”.
Several commenters have already anticipated the doubts I was going to raise about your computations of the energy consumption of electric vehicles. I don’t support the subsidies for them, but I think that your calculations need review in light of the earlier comments.
Excellent post by Lord Monckton.
Now if the NY Times would just publish it…
@Tom in Florida 4/9 at 4:57 am
Perhaps the should be a step 11: Is this the best use of tax payer money?
Absolutely agree.
Step 12: is this the best use of MY money?
Step 13: What happens when government tells you, “No more. That’s enough.”?
How to convince a climate skeptic.
For a start, you could show your data.
So the fix for the alleged problem is to use my tax money to further impinge on my standard of living.
Pardon me if I remain unconvinced by the braying of criminals and lunatics.
[Snip. How many times do commenters need to be told: ad-homs questioning Lord Monckton’s peerage belong on other blogs, not here. Play the ball, not the man. ~mod.]
Tell Steve. He brought up “the braying of [Monckton].”
Again Thank you Lord Monckton for another well presented article. I have been reading as much WUWT posts as my brain can handle for about a year now, and a few things stand out in my mind as a non-scientist. CO2 naturally is about .04% of the atmosphere mix and of that human produced CO2 is about 3% , 3% of total volume .04% (correct me if wrong) seems to me in the realm of trace gas. A trace gas in our atmosphere being blamed for as we all know here, everything bad. Somehow my civilian intellect is screaming WTF? That on the surface does not make any sense to me. Then there are real world events that keep happening. NOAA and NASA are trying to convince us this winter was the Warmest NH ever…..sigh…..I know the Catskills of New York State are not the world or even all of the NH, but, I am still looking at ice and snow in the yard. I am still harvesting sap for syrup. Second year in a row where tapping maple has gone into April, this year well beyond last year in lateness. Usually I am done with sugaring by last week of March or earlier. We have had one of the longest stretches of below freezing day time highs I have ever experienced in my 55 years. My question is: If so vast a region as everything east of the Rockies in USA and Canada have experienced among the coldest and snowiest winters recorded , someone explain to me how the rest of the NH is warmest ever? All that cold air came from where? Just a localized cold event? Norway, Spain, Italy, Saudi Arabia, Heck much of the Middle East, Turkey, Slovenia, Greece, Romania have had another cold snowy killer winter…When I read these reports and NOAA comes out saying warmest winter ever, I get crazy. Then all these Yahoo News feed stories that keep appearing like Arctic Sea Ice lowest winter extent ever, Yacht clubs looking to race the North West Passage by 2017… Seems to me the last time guys tried sailing North West Passage last summer got caught in …. ICE , and had to be rescued. Same with Antarctic Sea Ice adventures with the now famous “Ship of Fools”. I live near the Hudson River and this years freeze up got all the way down below the Tappan Zee Bridge. It has to be really cold for that to happen.
Meanwhile the Greenies are attempting to shut down coal fired power and what does this do for us? Do we have replacement energy ready to go online? I agree that we as civilization must be careful with our fuels and greater efficiency is a plus. But this funding boondoggle for non-problem or a modeled problem draining our public treasure on climate studies to drive agenda is plain wrong. Spend the money on decentralized small scale energy production with greater efficacy. We don’t need draconian policies and agendas to promote sanity.
I have complained before to the CAGW Alarmists, I want them to explain exactly : How do you KNOW CO2 is causing the drought in California? I want to know the evidence , the proof CO2 is causation for all things bad in our weather/climate ?
“CO2 naturally is about .04% of the atmosphere mix and of that human produced CO2 is about 3% , 3% of total volume .04% (correct me if wrong)”
You’re wrong.
Some of the ways in which you are wrong:
1. CO2 is not “naturally” anything. That’s not a scientific concept.
2. Before humans started jacking up the climate, CO2 was about 0.028%, not 0.04%. So if you want to declare something the “natural” concentration of CO2 (in the sense of what it was before we messed with it,) you’re off by a third.
3. Human produced CO2 is thus responsible for about a third of the present CO2 in the atmosphere, not 3%.
“I have complained before to the CAGW Alarmists, I want them to explain exactly : How do you KNOW CO2 is causing the drought in California? I want to know the evidence , the proof CO2 is causation for all things bad in our weather/climate ?”
Don’t complain. Study. Materials on the relationship of AGW to the current drought in CA abound. No one owes you a free education.
3% is that portion of total annual flux of CO2 that is attributed to anthropological sources. The net accumulation of CO2 in the atmosphere is said to have risen from 280 ppm before emissions from various human sources (such as cement making and fossil fuel burning) to present day net accumulation of 400 ppm.
Monckton has shown that there is another possibility of the increased net accumulation. We do know that CO2 levels have fluctuated largely in the past without humans being around.
The California drought will end, the rains will return and alarmists will scour the earth looking for weather that is currently dry and then usher cries of global warming causing this new dry event. Droughts are a naturally occurring even that have always happened and always will. I have found no credible study linking current dry conditions in CA to global warming (that has remained not warming for 18 years now).
Take a look at this water level chart for Shasta Lake: It was much drier in the 1970’s (note I can’t get it to load at the moment)
http://www.cdec.water.ca.gov/cdecapp/resapp/resDetailOrig.action?resid=SHA
A screen shot from a few weeks ago:
Robert, it is you who are wrong.
Do you know what isotopes are? Scientists can uses the ratio of Carbon isotopes to determine how much of CO2 is man made and and how much is from natural sources.
People in glass houses . . .
Gary, try to consolidate and focus your rants.
“3% is that portion of total annual flux of CO2 that is attributed to anthropological sources.”
So in other words, a totally irrelevant comparison?
” The net accumulation of CO2 in the atmosphere is said to have risen from 280 ppm before emissions from various human sources (such as cement making and fossil fuel burning) to present day net accumulation of 400 ppm.”
That is the fact, yes. It is not “said,” it’s proven.
“Monckton has shown that there is another possibility of the increased net accumulation.”
That’s hysterical. Do you really believe that? Try reading actual science, rather than a serial fabricator with no climate science chops whatsoever.
“We do know that CO2 levels have fluctuated largely in the past without humans being around.”
Irrelevant to our proven role in the present. Your argument is similar to a lawyer defending a murderer who shot a victim on camera in the presence of a thousand witnesses, by asserting “Well, other people have died in other ways without the involvement of my client.”
“Robert, it is you who are wrong.”
Nice argument by assertion, but totally baseless. Learn the basics of climate science, so as not to embarrass yourself.
Robert, I gather my summation of the total atmosphere CO2 constitutes about .04% is incorrect. Very well, I am aware of the 400 ppm per volume concept, this still qualifies as trace gas. And if you are well educated about the Proof CO2 (man made or otherwise) is driving bad weather and climate change or global warming which has stalled horribly, please inform me. I have been reading tons of material and admittedly I am not a scientist. So much of the deep technical information is very heady for me. That said, I still have not found a clear clean document that proofs CAGW is in fact a fact. As far as I can tell, CO2 driven Climate Change is hypothesis based on models which can not ever predict anything because parameters and variables are chaotic.
“Robert, it is you who are wrong.”
Nice argument by assertion, but totally baseless. Learn the basics of climate science, so as not to embarrass yourself.
—
Really? Prove me wrong. Debate the points I raised. Can you? And can you back it up with science?
Robert, You want us to return to the .028% level before “humans started jacking up the climate”?
You realise that was circa 1700, in the Little Ice Age don’t you? You realise more people die of cold than heat, don’t you?
So if .028% is “natural”, you wish to condemn society to that, without the benefit of fossil fuels?
Reg Nelson
You wrote
Clearly, you don’t know what the isotope ratios indicate.
You are wrong when you say
“Scientists can uses the ratio of Carbon isotopes to determine how much of CO2 is man made and and how much is from natural sources”.
Nobody can do that, but the indication from the isotopes is that most if not all the CO2 increase in the atmosphere is natural.
The observed carbon isotope ratio change in the atmosphere is in the direction which would be expected if the cause of the change were accumulation of the emissions from human activities.
But the magnitude of the change is wrong by a factor of 3 if it were simply caused by accumulation of the emissions from human activities. This discrepancy can be explained by an assumption of dilution of the CO2 in the air from natural sources.
Simply, the isotope changes provide a direct indication that the rise in atmospheric CO2 concentration is NOT accumulation of the emissions from human activities, but this indication may be misleading.
In other words, the isotope changes imply the rise in atmospheric CO2 concentration is NOT accumulation of the CO2 emissions from human activities, but the isotope changes do not prove the accumulation of the CO2 emissions from human activities are not the cause.
I suggest that you stick around at WUWT and read instead of posting ill-informed nonsense. Many scientists post here and you could learn much.
Richard
Lord Monckton (who, by this essay, shows once again his unmatched ability to comment in the political, economic, and social arenas) should appreciate that skeptics have no stronger allies than EEs and control-engineers who understand and recognize dominant feedback effects. As such, repeating (yet again) the faulty-labeled graph “Bode does not apply to climate” is particularly disappointing, especially in light of the fact that his multiple misconceptions have been pointed out on a previous thread not far below.
The yellow double-arrow (+0.1 < g +0.1 and is stable, even against noise burst larger than the step size; and it just amplifies by 8.
Lord Monckton (and others!) seems to conflate “loop gain”, “open-loop gain”, and “closed-loop gain” in various permutations. I don’t think he understands the difference between impulse response and step response. Neither does he appreciate that the fact that the “Bode curve” has a singularity at g=1 means that even g=0.1 (while positive) is well negative of that singularity.
Instead we were told (previous threads) that there is a limit that a “process engineer” uses: of g<0.1, for stability. If this is a “safety margin” (possibly a sensitivity to parameter drift here?) than it should be called that – not an unstable region. He apparently has a consulting “process engineer”, a profession I am not familiar with. Monckton can be impatient with others when they do not give citations or not use actual names. But this consulted person he never names, although this person supposedly has three PhDs; nor does he give citations.
To be clear, Monckton is quite correct (for several reasons) to state that the Bode equation likely misleads if one applies it to climate. But it helps the skeptics not at all if he confuses the engineering ideas other know so well.
——Reposting of Above – Part lost apparently due to inequality signs interpreted as html ! ——
Lord Monckton (who, by this essay, shows once again his unmatched ability to comment in the political, economic, and social arenas) should appreciate that skeptics have no stronger allies than EEs and control-engineers who understand and recognize dominant feedback effects. As such, repeating (yet again) the faulty-labeled graph “Bode does not apply to climate” is particularly disappointing, especially in light of the fact that his multiple misconceptions have been pointed out on a previous thread not far below.
The yellow double-arrow (g between 0.1 and 1.0) is NOT unstable. It does amplify, and as g approaches +1 even closer, it amplifies even more and will soon “clip” against a power supply rail or otherwise run out of “fuel”. But it is not unstable.
The figure below:
http://electronotes.netfirms.com/Stable.jpg
shows the step response of a positive feedback of g=7/8, thus between g=0.1 and g=1, and it is stable, even against noise burst larger than the step size; and it just amplifies by 8.
Lord Monckton (and others!) seems to conflate “loop gain”, “open-loop gain”, and “closed-loop gain” in various permutations. I don’t think he understands the difference between impulse response and step response. Neither does he appreciate that the fact that the “Bode curve” has a singularity at g=1 means that even g=0.1 (while positive) is well negative of that singularity.
Instead we were told (previous threads) that there is a limit that a “process engineer” uses: of g less than 0.1, for stability. If this is a “safety margin” (possibly a sensitivity to parameter drift here?) than it should be called that – not an unstable region. He apparently has a consulting “process engineer”, a profession I am not familiar with. Monckton can be impatient with others when they do not give citations or not use actual names. But this consulted person he never names, although this person supposedly has three PhDs; nor does he give citations.
To be clear, Monckton is quite correct (for several reasons) to state that the Bode equation likely misleads if one applies it to climate. But it helps the skeptics not at all if he confuses the engineering ideas other know so well.
I have been considering doing a Finite Element Analysis of an electrical feedback circuit and a similar analysis using a water pressure (piping) system and comparing how feedbacks differ. This difference is similar to how the climate system is different than an electrical analogy.
I’m not and EE but what limits the Bode equation as an analogy is all the other things brought on with initial temperature increase. A host of thermodynamic responses – temperature-caused, enthalpy consuming, evaporation and convection up from the water surface, creation of low pressure and causing winds to blow, cloud formation, rain and hail, ocean currents. The gain gets smothered by large external factors that don’t allow the gain to go anywhere near as far as the IPCC would like. Probably you can use the analogy ceteris paribus to try to understand the basic shape of the process but should also keep in mind that only a small part of the “circuit” response is sensible to use.
Indeed, I accept you are probably correct, the subject being your area of expertise. Perhaps Monckton should have simply used it as an analogy to get the sensitivity ball rolling but not gotten into unnecessary detail on the electronics itself. The Bode equation is widely used in climate science but probably not as well as Monckton used it. I believe we are going to know who has dealt with CO2 climate sensitivity better in the coming 5 years or so.
Me, I’m possibly more heretical in that I believe the Le Chatelier Principle (LCP) (in chemistry, it states a change in condition of temperature, pressure, concentration or etc causes a shift in chemical equilibrium of a system such as to resist the perturbation (say resist the temperature increase). It is my contention that LCP is broad enough to inform us that any gain in climate (and maybe even in electronics) is resisted and limited by agents set up by the conditions (back EMF in motors is a good example). It anticipates Newton’s third law (and perhaps the other two!), it anticipates the necessity for entropy. It is perhaps the perfect fit for climate which is pure physical chemistry and thermodynamics. To me, it may be the holy grail for understanding chaos – the attractors (in climate ‘cold’ stability state alternating with ‘warm’ stability state) the LCP resistance to change setting up an oscillation between cold glacial and warm interglacial as the limits. Oh, they are coming to take me away!!
Gary and Gary –
You might find a couple of my postings useful – full of actual examples. The first goes back to Nov. of 2013
http://electronotes.netfirms.com/EN219.pdf
The second is very recent, and was inspired by Joe Born’s circuit example:
http://electronotes.netfirms.com/ENWN25.pdf
In a few days, I expect to post a follow-up which will be the same URL as just above except 26 instead of 25. The figure above came from that draft note.
Nothing beats actually doing examples!
Bernie
Bernie, what you show is correct.
But there is a much larger issue when attempting to apply electrical / electronic closed loop feedback equations to a system comprised of passive thermal elements. An electronic feedback system requires amplification (like an op-amp or servo amplifier) which further requires an external source of energy to power the amplifier. This external source of energy adds to the feedback signal to create a more energetic drive signal.
No source of energy, no application of any of the traditional “sparky” (slang for an electrical engineer) feedback stability equations.
The climate science community found some equations that looked like they would “prove their case” and applied them all willy-nilly. Of course, knowing which equation applies is much harder than simply “plugging the equation in”.
Cheers, KevinK.
Thanks Kevin –
I quite agree. I think this is related to what I have said about being “fuel limited”, eventually, in all cases. But perhaps it is in fact never really “powered” at all as you seem to suggest.
Bernie wrote;
“Thanks Kevin –
I quite agree. I think this is related to what I have said about being “fuel limited”, eventually, in all cases. But perhaps it is in fact never really “powered” at all as you seem to suggest.”
Exactly, the climate is like an amplifier where the power cord has been pulled out of the outlet and it is quite dead.
The only electrical circuit elements that are analogous to the climate are resistors, capacitors and inductors. It is possible to create filters that pass/attenuate some frequencies, and perhaps display a resonance, but there is never any GAIN in the climate system. The Sun acts as a source of electrons/photons which get absorbed by the surface (like a capacitor absorbs electrons) and then later discharged (as IR radiation). The gases in the atmosphere act like capacitors which charge/discharge with photons. It is simply all a question of “RC” time constants that apply to the Sunlight after it reaches the surface.
Cheers, KevinK.
Thanks again Kevin – the ominous ring of truth.
But I doubt it is possible to get a resonance unless you have a passive way of getting an inductive flow. One such is Newton’s second law, but I think this would require a charged particle in an electric field. Not likely.
KevinK:
I’ve never been as put off as you have by the “gain” terminology; I think it’s just the way you look at it, at least when we’re restricting ourselves to the linearized approximation.
For example, you could look on the sun as a current source, the earth as a capacitor, and feedback as the capacitor voltage’s controlling the current source. In other words, something like Fig. 3 of my post about Monckton et al.’s transience fraction, with the “current” from the addition block being controlled by feedback. Is there “gain” in the forward path from the input current to the output voltage?
We could argue all day about the semantics, but I don’t see that it makes any difference in the math that we do or do not call it “gain”; if linearity were to persist, the (forgive my nomenclature) loop gain could in theory exceed unity, the system would blow up, and we’d all boil away. (I think we all know why that couldn’t happen in real life, but we’re talking about nomenclature to be used for a fictional linearized system.)
Bernie Hutchins: “Monckton is quite correct (for several reasons) to state that the Bode equation likely misleads if one applies it to climate.”
The problem is that the “Bode equation” can also mislead if one applies it to electronics. I don’t think he’s made a very clear statement of the distinction on which he’s relying. (If I recall, he said something about “restorative” or something like that, which could be interpreted as applying also to a typical negative-feedback amplifier or PID controller.)
I agree it’s annoying that he presumes to prescribe nomenclature to the tens of thousands who design this stuff all the time. But the real difficulty is how impressionistic he is about the manner in which he contends modelers are using the “Bode equation” incorrectly and how the way they use it would be perfectly fine if it were being used for electronics.
This is among the many cases in which his position boils down to a you’re-wrong-and-I’m-right argument with no reasoning to back it up. My experience is that he almost invariably the nature of his response to people who try to throw him a line when he’s in over his depth.
“ “As temperatures increase by 1 Celsius degree, global average water vapor in the atmosphere is expected to increase by around 7%. No, the carrying capacity of the space occupied by the atmosphere for water vapour is expected to increase by 7% per Celsius degree, in accordance with the Clausius-Clapeyron relation. Just because the atmosphere can carry more water vapor, that does not mean it will.“. Actually, my understanding is that it will carry the extra 7%. Susan Wijffels did a study on heavy rainfall events which showed a 7% increase in heavy rainfall per 1 deg C. There was some effort among the warmists to discredit the finding, because a 7% increase as per Clausius-Clapeyron is embarrassing for the warmists. The climate models allow only 2-3% increase, and depend on this for their high climate sensitivity – the point being that at 7% much more energy is needed to evaporate all that water and the climate sensitivity is then necessarily less.
“the point being that at 7% much more energy is needed to evaporate all that water and the climate sensitivity is then necessarily less.”
No, that is the opposite of what that would imply. Water is itself a powerful greenhouse gas. More evaporation implies a higher climate sensitivity.
The potty peer, asks the right questions, unfortunately he gets all ten answers wrong.
F- for you, Chris. Better go back to working on that AIDS cure.
childish
Gary Pearse,
Let him be, he is invisible intellectually . . .
John
Me and 97% of publishing climate scientists. Kinda makes you wonder about the quality of the “intellects” that can’t see us, doesn’t it?
Robert
April 9, 2015 at 6:46 pm
“Me and 97% of publishing climate scientists.”
A person who identifies himself as a believer in Cook’s idiot paper discredits himself.
Which 97% Robert? The 97% from Cook where he chose 11,664 papers and rated only 64% of them? That fraud? What an uninformed idiot you are.
I meant Cook rated only 64 of the 11,664 papers which equals to 0.55%. From these 64 he claimed 97% were positive. So you believe in 97% of 0.55%? See how stupid you look?
I know this I missing the point but…
Why do people who believe in the end of the world from manmade climate change also oppose curing AIDS?
The two issues aren’t related. Except in the hatred of humanity and a desire to see us suffer.
So, here’s the rub, why do such people believe that 97% of scientists are so wicked? Most people are nice.
STEP 11. When do I get back all the fraudulent CO2 based Vehicle Excise Duty I’m being fined on two older low mileage vehicles currently running at £730 annually Thanks to Ed Millibands 2008 Climate Change Act
“He concedes that the warming rate since 1979 is 0.12-0.16 Cº decade (RSS and UAH respectively).”
From a cold AMO mode with wet continental interior regions to a warm AMO mode with dry continental interior regions. That will tell you more about natural variation than it will about any GHG forcing. The only valid trend is with respect to AMO phase. Looking at global 65 year SST trends which are not contaminated by land rainfall effects, and which do not diverge from UAH lt, from cold AMO years 1991 to 1976 and warm AMO years 1945 to 2010, I don’t see any significant increase in warming rates in the latter period. And it’s only ~0.57°C per century.
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadsst3gl/from:1900/plot/hadsst3gl/from:1911/to:1976/trend/plot/hadsst3gl/from:1945/to:2010/trend
typo sorry: from cold AMO years 1911 to 1976
Paul April 9, 2015 at 7:17 am
. “An enclosed garage isn’t too uncommon either. ”
You must live in a nice neighborhood. Is that where all the guilt comes from? In my neck of the woods the cars live outside.
“You must live in a nice neighborhood. Is that where all the guilt comes from?”
Guilt? How do you see guilt, you don’t know me at all. I’ve worked hard for everything I have, and have no reason to feel guilty about having anything, including an attached garage.
Dyson on Climate Change
http://www.conversationsthatmatter.tv/
Current for the moment…
Climate change on Dyson:
http://theidiottracker.blogspot.com/2013/09/freeman-dyson-explained.html
R U A TRD?