The Magical Power of the Kilowatt-Hour
Guest essay by Tom Scott
The typical follower of this blog is likely more knowledgeable in math and the sciences than the average reader, so many of you will find the following quite obvious on an intellectual level, but the facts below may still stimulate a new awareness of just how powerful is the concept of energy available at the flip of a switch.
The incentive to write down these brief thoughts came while reading from Dr. Roy Spencer’s blog the other day. There I came across this stupefyingly dumb quote from our White House Science Advisor, John Holdren . In a 1975 newspaper article in the Windsor Star, entitled “Too Much Energy, Too Soon, a Hazard”, he wrote:
“Finally, less energy can mean more employment. The energy producing industries comprise the most capital intensive and least labour intensive major sector of the economy. Accordingly, each dollar of investment capital taken out of energy production and invested in something else, and each personal consumption dollar saved by reduced energy use and spent elsewhere in the economy will create more jobs than are lost.”
To evaluate the above quote, consider the difference in productivity between the solar and coal power production industries. Both industries support about 174,000 jobs in the U.S. while coal provides about 150 times more power at this time (about 0.25% to about 39%). Hardly a winning substitution.
But can’t we (or the third world) live just as well without electricity?
To answer this, lets start with the term “horsepower” as it is rooted in real-world imagery. One horsepower is defined as 550 pounds of force displaced one foot per second. In other words, with one horsepower at hand one could start at sea-level and lift a 550 pound weight 1 foot higher every second. It was thought that a horse could do this kind of work on a reasonably regular basis, thus the name. On the other hand, it is hard to imagine a human generating this kind of power for more than a few seconds at a time.
It so happens that a kilowatt is about 1.34 times “larger” than a horsepower, or about 737 lbs raised one foot each second, or 100 kg raised 1 meter each second. If we assume than our electric motor and transmission are about 75% efficient (1/1.34), we would be right back to an output of 550 ft-lb of useful work from each KWH purchased. For each KWH we pay about 0.10 to $0.15 at retail prices here in the U.S.
The U.S. median household income is about $50,000 per year, which spread over 2,000 work hours would be $25 per hour. Historically an employer has loaded costs of about 1.4 times the pay rate, so the cost to the employer would be about $35 per hour. How does that wage compare to the work which can be done by the kilowatt-hour? At a price of 10 cents per unit, an employer could substitute 350 KWH for each man-hour of payroll. Assuming 75% efficiency, this equates to lifting almost 8000 one hundred pound bags of concrete 40 inches (one meter) each hour, eight hours per day, 250 days per year. For the rest of the world that is about 7,200 fifty-kilogram sacks raised one meter each hour. Would you be able or willing to do such work for 30 years in order to modestly raise a family and fund a small retirement? Not if you are human because it would be physically impossible.
So the next time you hear someone suggest that killing a job in the coal-based power industry and replacing it with one in the solar industry will lead to a better world, realize that each job so displaced will come with vastly reduced productivity. And the next time you hear a green advocate suggest that you can do manually what we are currently doing with the “help” of evil electricity, consider your child’s working life spent lifting 8000 one hundred pound sacks every hour for 25 or 30 years. Or until he/she dies trying.
Such is the magical power of the kilowatt-hour.
Thank you for this analysis.
Would anyone care to analyize Holdren’s carbon footprint over the past three or four decades? I’ll bet it’s outrageous.
How about the carbon footprint of Holdren’s boss? It is huge!!!
Catcracking, there are a few people I’d like to see their carbon fingerprint on charge sheets.
“Affordable energy in ample quantities is the lifeblood of the industrial societies and a prerequisite for the economic development of the others.” — John P. Holdren, Science Adviser to President Obama. Published in Science 9 February 2001
It looks like John P. Holdren and Obama hates America and want to destroy it by making energy less affordable and less available?
I agree Perry, it becomes even more pointed when you realize that it is roughly 2.2 100 lb bags per second 8 hrs per day for 25 -30 years.!
Interesting, except that Holdren doesn’t suggest PRODUCING less energy, but conserving energy. Obviously increasing jobs requires growth in SOME sector, and he’s saying (40 years ago??) that energy savings can be invested elsewhere to grow jobs. He also doesn’t say anything (in this quote) about renewables, but more recently, we’ve seen that growing the renewable energy sector can also provide more job opportunities.
http://energy.gov/eere/education/clean-energy-jobs-and-career-planning
Conserving energy = Not lifting 100-lb bags of concrete if you don’t have to.
Those jobs in renewable energy are a net loss because they destroy more jobs in other industries. See Bastiiat’s broken window.
His point was to reduce society’s investment in energy “production” (really transduction) to allocate more resources elsewhere. His current crusade is to greatly increase the cost-per-unit of energy “produced”. He would now have us spend trillions on renewables and storage to save billions on nuke and coal plants. You and he seem to have missed his point entirely.
While conserving energy, per se, is a good thing. Spending unlimited amounts of money in order to conserve ever smaller amounts, is stupid. And that is what Holdren is proposing.
When it makes economic sense to conserve, companies are already doing so.
When it doesn’t make economic sense to conserve, conserving just takes resources away from more productive pursuits and ends up making us all poorer.
Beyond that is Holdren’s belief that by forcing people to use solar instead of coal because solar employees more people per kilo-watt is so far beyond stupid that only those who believe in economic fairies would ever fall for it.
Also, energy conservation is very “capital intensive”. Is that a bad thing for power plant and not for “conservation”?
“Capital intensive” is not evil or inherently bad (we have capital, why not use it), but it’s a cost that must be accounted for.
The cost of capital is usually used to as an argument mostly against fission energy; it isn’t used as much when hydro, wind, or solar energy is discussed, or when energy conservation is hyped.
Capital is the result of work elsewhere or work of others. Building a power plant gives years of work to people before the first kWh is produced and sold. And someone has to pay for that.
The French nuclear fleet was built with money mostly from US workers retirement plans; the electric energy produced paid back. That was possible because US workers had enough pay and could save for their retirement. Work allows capital accumulation; capital enable more productive work. Only when work produces more than immediately needed you can accumulate capital.
The French government at that time gave the responsibility to scientists and engineers (mostly from “le corps des Mines”) to prepare the state owned energy sector based on needs and available technology. Now it’s more unicorns and rainbows strategy.
No, holdrrn and his worthless boss do want to shut down existing sources of energy and are getting away with it. Also, re new ables do NOT save money, are not efficient and currently make things worse because they are subsidized by OUR taxes.
John Holdren, a modern day Luddite. Hey, if we got rid of Solar and stuck everyone on treadmills there would be even more employment!
save sh*tloads on medical bills, solve the obesity issues etc etc
ooh gawd..it could give em ideas..
I’m pretty sure Michelle is working on that treadmill thingy, as I type.
Holden’s statement allowed me to visualize Conan growing up stronger and stronger as he walks in circles driving a generator.
LOL
However this post goes straight into my “The Poor Suffer” file.
I don’t recall it ending well for the tyrant who used Conan as a beast of burden.
Holdren apparently wants to lower the our productivity, which is ludditish, and darn brain-dead.
Someone please provide Holdren with 18th century standard of living. He does not need more. Okay, that was 1975, 40 years ago, when communists were all around – I guess Soviets paid them money to be stupid if their natural skill were lacking.
Actually, the typical Russian during the Soviet Union era supposedly said “We pretend to work and they pretend to pay us!” 😉
There would but no one except the rich would be able to pay the price per Kwh.
“There would be but no one except the rich would be able to pay the price per Kwh.”
That is Holdren’s plan, actually.
See the book Agenda 21 and it warns about just this. The characters are forced to generate power for the collective through treadmills.
http://www.amazon.com/Agenda-21-Glenn-Beck/dp/147671701X
I haven’t read that particular book, though I have read enough of Agenda 21 itself to give anyone recurring bad dreams.
However, here in the UK, while we were playing with power cuts in the ’70s, I remember the Monster Raving Loony party (perhaps the most honestly named political party of all time) went into one election with a policy of using prisoners on treadmills to generate power to heat the homes of the elderly. Given that other “raving loony” policies (e.g. votes at 18) are now accepted political orthodoxy, your observation might yet prove unpleasantly predictive …
Exactly. Greeen jobs are all menial or maintenance. Cleaning solar panels or the blades of wind turbines, yeh, that’s what we all aspire to. Of course, it means we are back to churning butter by hand and using scythes, which surely saves electricity but wastes human lives.
They called them “energy boards”.
Well, obviously without power we’ll need more ditchdiggers, welldiggers, etc. I’m looking forward to some of that handsawn lumber.
I can’t wait to see Mr Holdren becoming familiarized with a stump jump plow. And his children with a cultivator.
Ours is a rosy future…..
80% of the world’s energy in 1800 AD was renewables: windmills and water wheels.
Why don’t we ask Wall Street if it can trust its high-speed trading to solar power.
As Tim Worstall is fond of pointing out (at http://www.timworstall.com/ and on Forbes) practically the entire human race, in all of pre- and known history, before the Industrial Revolution, lived like the 1bn currently on or below the absolute poverty level, whilst working all the hours of daylight in the fields.
It is only the wealth brought about by cheap power, free markets, specialisation and the division of labour which allows us the surplus to afford the likes of Holdren, Gore, McKibbern, the UN & the IPCC, who produce nothing useful and instead of adding value to humankind, remove it.
I suggest those of us in the productive industries should cease subsidising these worthless people and organisations.
And as Timmy is wont to point out — jobs are a cost, not a benefit. One extra person employed to produce “green” energy is one person not curing cancer, caring for the sick or elderly, composing music or whatever other benefit they might bring the human race. In fact we all want jobs so much that they have to pay us cash money to actually turn up and do them.
It’s not a job if it doesn’t create wealth.
Blibb, the village idiot, was a nuisance with his constant panhandling, so the town council decided to give him a job polishing the brass cannon in the park, paying him enough to keep him fed and clothed and to save a little for emergencies. This worked well. But after three years, Blibb announced that he was going to quit his job. When asked why, he responded, “Wol, I got some money saved up, an’ I’m gonna buy my own cannon.”
Blibb and many like him have been appointed to high positions in the US Government and academia.
A long time ago, Heinlein said:
“Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.
This is known as “bad luck.”
I left Heinlein’s work behind in adolescence. From time to time I’ve wondered whether I had been old enough to appreciate him fully.
You just provided me one of those times.
I didn’t encounter Heinlein until late adulthood, but I have found he had a pretty good bead on the thinking and behavior of groups. In “The Moon is a Harsh Mistress” he had identified the self-dealing and hypocrisy of international organizations like the U.N. quite accurately.
Too right Tom, Holdren’s quote is pure broken windows fallacy – the silly idea that if you go around smashing windows, everyone will be better off, because there will be lots of extra jobs replacing broken windows.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_fallacy
Bingo!
He’s probably nostalgic for a Golden Age in US history when thousands were employed in the cotton-picking industry and they knew their place.
After all, the motive force has to come from somewhere. If you aren’t using fossil fuels you’ll have it go back to slavery.
Yep. Bad ideas in economics never die.
Ron H,
Then what’s the alternative? Is there something better?
There is no “trickle down” theory in economics. It is a straw man fallacy.
If you get rid of the industrial society and go back to the medieval society, there will be loads of crippling manual work as well as disease, famine and pestilence.
Whats not to like! What a marvelous man John Holdren is!
Holdren is also a fan of population reduction…
If we adopt his ideas there will be be a population reduction.
Hey, he may have a point.
Imagine a planet without socialists.
It almost makes one giddy.
Jim Fransisco “If we adopt his ideas there will be be a population reduction.“. Actually, explosion not reduction. Poverty breeds.
Mike J. It doesn’t matter how many kids get bred, what matters is will there be enough food to feed them.
The answer there is no. Without modern technology there would only be enough food to feed a few hundred million, at most. The rest will die.
Hmm. We would start with a medieval society, but given the demands of PETA and other animal rights organizations, no beasts of burden to use. I think we would end up with a stone age society. Wait, they were hunter-gatherers. Hunting would be forbidden. How many vegens can the world support?
Well,yes, on one level Holdren is correct – you could create more jobs with less energy consumption. However, it takes little more than a nano second to realise that these jobs would be less productive, and the lower the energy, the less productive they become.
We could certainly get everybody into work, cultivating land behind horse drawn ploughs, and weaving cloth using Arkrwights water powered looms. A few more nano seconds – or even a millisecond – would lead to the insight that a much larger proportion of the work force would be needed to produce primary needs – ie food, mined products, shelter, clothing, basic furniture and utensils. And if you are like, really, really smart, you might then infer that we would all be like, really, really poor.
Maybe Holdren just isn’t that smart.
I think I understand Holdren. He believes we will eventually reduce world population to 10 % of today’s numbers, and those survivors will live a lower standard of living. He doesn’t explain the full extent of his train of thought.
In the end we will have to replace fossil fuels with something. I’m worried we may lack the technology to make that switch if we don’t get after it (I’m thinking of something like a really low cost fusion reactor).
With coal, oil, natural gas we have at least hundreds, if not thousands, of years of ‘fossil fuel’ available. And we can always make more from plants, deep-sea hydrates, etc. Of course, if for some silly reason you wanted to avoid ‘carbon’, there’s always uranium and thorium, not only mineable from the earth but extractable from the seas. And that’s just the beginning. Cheaper access to space will make solar-power satellites feasible. If we needed it, there’s methane galore in the farther reaches of Solar System, too.
Cheap, abundant, energy is the sine qua non of civilizational growth, is fully available, and ought to be mankind’s highest priority—after individual freedom, of course.
/Mr Lynn
Holdren, take us back to the days of rikshaws, porters and servants. And don’t forget that some people are eager to work in the cotton fields!
People will be too busy collecting sacks of firewood to go to work.
Come on, Tim. The women can collect the firewood and work the fields while we go fishing and hunting. That’s the way it’s always been and the way it is now in several extant human societies.
A.R. – I was actually referring to populations freezing from exposure due to mandated energy sources. However, regarding the sexes, I’m sure there are opportunities in the repair and restoration industries to employ both sexes – and those in between…
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=wind+turbines+collapse&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=BLQOVenaAsahmQX9-ICICA&ved=0CCQQsAQ&biw=1252&bih=580&dpr=1.09
Tim, who says the peasants will be permitted to gather firewood in the kings forest?
here is a thought, given these figures..
“To evaluate the above quote, consider the difference in productivity between the solar and coal power production industries. Both industries support about 174,000 jobs in the U.S. while coal provides about 150 times more power at this time (about 0.25% to about 39%). Hardly a winning substitution.”
If the people employed in wind and solar were instead put to work on treadmills to produce electricity, would they produce as much as the industry that employs them? With the added benefit of reliability and production at any time: rain, shine, or wind… can someone do the math… (I bet it’s close.)
Ponder this,
Kilowatthour generated per unit of fuel used:
1,842 kWh per ton of Coal or 0.9 kWh per pound of Coal
127 kWh per Mcf (1,000 cubic feet) of Natural gas
533 kWh per barrel of Petroleum, or 12.7 kWh per gallon
http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=667&t=2
The current record holder for the [manpowered watts/]Hour Record is Ondrej Sosenka and the website BikeCult.com has an estimate of his average wattage during his Hour Record at 430 Watts! If Ondrej’s bike were attached to a bicycle generator and it was super efficient, Ondrej would have been generating enough power to light up 7 60-Watt light bulbs! Since I pay about 10 cents/kWh, if I were to pay Ondrej for the energy he produced over the hour he was pedaling he would have almost earned a whole nickel (430 Watts • 1 hour = 430 Watt-hours = .43 kWh)!
http://www.mapawatt.com/2009/07/19/bicycle-power-how-many-watts-can-you-produce
So a pound of coal will get you 900 watts of power and the world record (2011) of human power 430 watts (your results will be less).
Trains can move a ton of freight nearly 450 miles on a single gallon of fuel. Last time I looked, diesel was priced at $2.69 / gal. You want to pull 22.5 tons 20 miles if the track is supplied for less than $3?
http://www.csx.com/index.cfm/about-csx/projects-and-partnerships/fuel-efficiency/
The mpw/hr situation is actually worse because there would be no facilities/energy to produce the super-efficient bike and generator in the first place.
How much human power does it take to push the western world over a cliff?
1 manpower — if you’re an Obama.
Well it is fairly obvious that if you dig a ditch by hand you will need more labour than if you dig it with a backhoe. If a country gets rid of all its backhoes and bulldozers and other construction machinery that industry will soak up a lot of labour — from Mexico and Guatemala and other places where people are desperate for any kind of work.
So Mr Holdren is right. The USA can be put back into the 19th century: all that is needed is to exchange jobs that use energy in the form of petroleum and coal and gas for jobs that use muscle power.
What kind of education system has the US got that a man can become science adviser to the President of the United States and know so little about economics and the economic history of his own country?
That’s why he had the Science Advisor job, not the Economics Advisor one.
Because he doesn’t know anything about science?
There isn’t anyone in the administration that knows (or cares) anything about science. Who needs science when you have politics? – – or a pen and a phone…
Interestingly my company built whole water and sewerage systems in Africa with almost no mechanical equipment. A month in North America probably = a year on some of those projects. Yet the locals were very happy at 3 to 5 times the going wage and the jobs eventually got done. But then, I have seen nearly the same in our own frozen north (orders of magnitude different but similar). Lack of immediate capital changes how things are done. In some places, it can take a generation to build a family home (cash flow).
However, appropriate third party financing helps (/everyone/) most people.
Would have been fun to see JH carrying dirt out of the foundation of a water treatment plant on crossed sticks with the rest of the ladies so he could see his theory in action. It works but not very efficiently.
Why was Holdren even chosen for this position?
Because he was an extreme left-wing/climate change/over-population believer?
I mean that is actually the correct answer but it just makes no sense at all. Why pick a nutball in the first place? Is this really what Obama wanted? An even better question.
Obama needed to satisfy his core constituency, which happens to be full of leftoid environmentalists. There’s nothing really unusual about it. Bush named a horse show organization type to head the Federal Emergency Management Agency. Some political appointees are outstandingly incompetent. This applies to Holdren, who’s smart but way too extreme.
Satisfying a core constituency or not I think Obama genuinely believes Holdren. All one needs to do is check out Obama’s choice to be his Green Jobs Czar: Van Jones. Van Jones is a ‘truther.’ He signed a letter calling for an investigation into the truth of what happened on 9/11. The letter alleged that the Bush administration was aware of 9/11 before the fact but allowed it to happen so as to have a pretext for war with Iraq. Either the FBI didn’t vet Van Jones or the Obama administration didn’t think it mattered. When they were called out on it they spun it to say Van Jones didn’t know what he was signing. Nonsense; Van Jones is a lawyer – a lawyer knows what he signs. Eventually the Obama administration had to cut him lose. Van Jones pops up these days in Occupy Wall Street protests. Van Jones was one of many people under the radar in the Obama administration but one who was outted. I don’t think they’re there to satisfy constituencies. They have Obama’s ear.
I cannot agree that Holdren is smart. His science has had NO predictive value. Yet he holds a position that affects millions of peoples lives. His views are extreme, but more importantly, they are incorrect.
Tom J is exactly right. And there are a ton of Van Jones types who heavily influence policy, but who remain under the radar.
It’s also distressing that Van Jones remains on the rent seeker roll, collecting taxpayer loot while undermining the country.
I believe that a collaspe of our system is exactly what Obama is working towards. Many that want a socialist utopia believe that the destruction of our present system is required to bring about the change. The real trick is to bring about the destruction and make it look like someone else caused it. So far he is doing that very thing very well.
Yes. Came to that conclusion the other day after reading about new guidelines for L-1 visas, that basically remove any limitations on transferring employees from overseas to work in America. So, insane H1B and l-1 visa caps at the top end, allowing unlimited workers at the low end… I asked myself, does he really want to make sure that NO americans have jobs?
The conclusion I came to is, yes, that’s exactly what he wants. When the previous middle class joins the unemployed underclass, they’ll join the chorus of the government taking care of them forever… however they want to do it.
Convincing big business that Democrats can sell our their citizenry as well as any Republican, or even better, is just a nice bonus for more campaign contributions.
By the end of his term:
http://www.moonbattery.com/obamas-work-is-done-here.JPG
And here are some quotes from Holdren’s Book Ecoscience:
http://zombietime.com/john_holdren
Because Obama is a nutball.
No, he’s an Alinskyite Marxist. There’s a madness to his method.
Send Holdren into the paddy fields where he can show that his rhethorics is worth its salt. The people there might get terrybly angry when they find out what a fella he really is. Reminds me a little bit of Marie Antoinette: when the people complained they had no bread, it is said that her repy was “Let them eat cake”.
Completety disconnected from reality.
Well technically not. At the time ‘cake’ was a reference not to what we think of as cake (the stuff with frosting & loads of sugar), it was a reference to the hard crust that bakers cut off of the freshly baked bread that came from the expansion of the bread over the tops of the bread molds during the baking process. It was hard, almost impossible to consume so they just cut it off and fed it to the pigs.
Marie was suggesting that the people eat that, which probably infuriated them more than thinking they should eat ‘cake’. It was connected to reality although I don’t know exactly how much cake is produced when baking one loaf of bread, I’d assume not a whole lot.
This explanation is new to me and apparently not the accepted one. The one in Wikipedia seems to me more sensible: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_them_eat_cake
Apparently it was Rousseau who coined the phrase “Qu’ils mangent de la brioche.” possibly in reference to Maria-Thérèse, who had lived about 100 years before and was the wife of Louis XIV.
Since brioche is a rich bread much more expensive than ordinary bread, this phrase would have signified insensitivity to the plight of the poor.
The phrase was probably falsely attributed to Marie Antoinette:for political purposes.
http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2011/12/marie-antoinette-never-said-let-them-eat-cake/
What’s not to like about a miserable life of servitude for minimal subsistence? (/sarc off)
A healthy well-fed laborer over the course of an 8-hour work shift can sustain an average output of about 75 watts. (Eugene A. Avallone et. al, (ed), Marks’ Standard Handbook for Mechanical Engineers 11th Edition , Mc-Graw Hill, New York 2007 ISBN 0-07-142867-4 page 9-4) So that would be about 13MW for 174,000 people. It’s no wonder our predecessors had to keep a constant supply of slaves coming in.
I assume Mr Holdren would want to import the entire population of Mexico to do the work. ( Not forgetting that people personally consume a lot of the power they create.) There are about 122.3MM Mexicans. If they were all taken on as Mr Holdren’s slaves he still would not have enough power to keep up the current Washington Bubble life style.
But don’t they consume more than they can creater? All that foodstuff, housing, well, huts will do, medical care, well, a quack will do, education, well, a primary school will do but anyway…Luxury is bad for exceeding the break-even-point. Except for the wel-to-do, of course.
Sorry, I suffer from an acute infection of Morbus Grauniad. Typos everywere. everywhere.
“I assume Mr Holdren would want to import the entire population of Mexico…”
Isn’t that already a plan?
Wow — healthy well-fed labourer, 75 watts? Just think, if we hooked a couple of these guys up together we could run a tungsten filament bulb. Or maybe a few itsy LEDs. That means, with only a couple of thousand well-fed labourers working 3 shifts we could run at least some of the electrics for Al Gore’s mansion, reduce his carbon footprint a bit(at least while he’s at home). Any volunteers?
That’s 10 healthy well fed laborers to keep a 750 watt microwave running. I’ll need a bigger kitchen!
Sly, people don’t produce an lot of power. From Wiki “adults of good average fitness average between 50 and 150 watts for an hour of vigorous exercise. A healthy well-fed laborer over the course of an 8-hour work shift can sustain an average output of about 75 watts”
I’m always amazed at the amount of work I can get out of a gallon of diesel fuel. I have an old Northwest 25 dragline that I call Helga. She can work all day, moving mountains of material for $20 in fuel. I spend half that on a days food and hydration for me, and she’s doing all of the work.
They could power the White House showers and solve the unemployment problem in one shot:
I spend quite a bit of time on ATV’s for work and have similar amazement about how just a few litres of gas can haul me and hundreds of pounds of gear around all day over huge distances. It would take me weeks in human power to accomplish what just a couple litres of gas can do! I never take the stuff for granted or fail to marvel at how much labour it saves me.
But I suppose actually working for a living allows me to value progress in a way that do-nothings like Holdren will never appreciate.
I put 10,000 miles on my motorcycle before somebody stole it. It was a long walk home 😉 It was an inexpensive way for me to travel quickly. Long distances were tiring as the 350cc Honda did not have a fairing (windshield). I traveled to Spokane from Vancouver B.C. once. If I hunched over I could get a maximum speed of about 70 mph
I rode it to Vancouver from my home in Port Coquitlam to get a part for my Porsche that had broken down. My gas cable snapped. It was a cold ride. Very cold. I stopped at a mall in Burnaby to warm up, have some lunch. On the way back the sun was going down, then it got really cold. I barely survived.
What the, my kph turned into mph.
Ok, I think I could hit 70 mph, downhill. I haven’t driven a motor vehicle for a few years now, max speeds mean nothing to me as I ride my bicycle most of the time.
Canmore, 2030:
“How far is that ridge over there?”
“’bout two days.”
Paul,
I’ve often used this example here, explaining the basics to the greenie contingent:
Turn your car’s engine off. Put it in Neutral. Get out, and push your car about twenty miles down the road. Then explain why we should get rid of fossil fuels.
That shows folks what a gallon of gasoline is worth. It is one of the best buys on the planet.
Fossil fuels have made the world immensely better for everyone. They are truly a miracle — and without a doubt, they saved the right whale population.
Anyone who wants to get rid of fossil fuels, or even make them more expensive, has a screw loose. Or they don’t understand basic econ. Or cost/benefit analysis. Or… they are selling out their country.
I can’t think of any other possibilities…
dbstealey, here is another example: I see this power plant
http://www.riverbender.com/ureport/photos/08201308310186400_Portage%20des%20Sioux%20Plant_II.jpg
http://wikimapia.org/1694367/AmerenUE-Sioux-Power-Plant
nearly every day and think about the huge area it supplies with power. Then I look at the smoke (steam) from the 600 foot scrubber
http://www.corriganco.com/projects/ameren-portage-de-sioux-power-plant/
http://www.corriganco.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Portfolio-Ameren-Portage-1-Portage-Des-Sioux-Plant-1024×673.jpg
and try to imagine the combined smoke of every one of the customers trying to keep warm without fossil fuels or electricity generated from them. Then I try to imagine how much land would have to be occupied somewhere around here to put up enough solar panels (at nearly 40 deg N.) to replace a gigawatt coal station, which is located in a place where there it has no detectable air quality impact. Then there is the huge wildlife impact of wind and solar, not to mention the bird blenders spoiling these bluffs on the Mississippi river, right across from the plant.
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/49566076.jpg
How’d I forget… Bald Eagles live on those windy bluffs.
How’s that for tree huggin’?
“Lenin is said to have declared that the best way to destroy the capitalist system was to debauch the currency [by eliminating gold redeemability]. By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. By this method they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily; and, while the process impoverishes many, it actually enriches some. The sight of this arbitrary rearrangement of riches strikes not only at security, but at confidence in the equity of the existing distribution of wealth. Those to whom the system brings windfalls, beyond their deserts and even beyond their expectations or desires, become ‘profiteers,’ who are the object of the hatred of the bourgeoisie, whom the inflationism has impoverished, not less than of the proletariat. As the inflation proceeds and the real value of the currency fluctuates wildly from month to month, all permanent relations between debtors and creditors, which form the ultimate foundation of capitalism, become so utterly disordered as to be almost meaningless; and the process of wealth-getting degenerates into a gamble and a lottery.
“Lenin was certainly right. There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose.”
* * * * *
Dare to be that one man in a million.
And this doesn’t even speak to the zillions of other uses of petroleum products.
Oops … this was mean to go under dbstealey’s last comment.
Agriculture is also a capital intensive industry. This is why employment in that sector has fallen from 70% – 80% of the US population in 1870 to 2% currently.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture_in_the_United_States#Employment
If we took the capital out of agriculture we could put millions of people to work picking cotton, digging potatoes and shucking corn.
70 years ago my Father was a champion corn husker at 35 bushels per day; that included the cobs and a lot of husk. Today his Great Grandson can pick a 1000 bushels an hour without the cobs or husk and already shelled. 35 bushels is about a ton of corn.
Do you think that anyone who wants to go back to those good old days ever husk any corn ? I am guessing that most people like Holdren and Algore have never done any manual labor or anything that has physically benefited other people.
The ‘elite’ expect to be the ones telling the slaves what to do while they sit on the porch drinking Mint Juleps. Why would they care about manual work?
A theory of mine (which I have yet to see anywhere else, but probably exists) is that if the U.S. Civil War had been delayed just thirty or forty years, the works of John Deere and Cyrus McCormick would have ended slavery without a shot being fired.
“if the U.S. Civil War had been delayed just thirty or forty years, the works of John Deere and Cyrus McCormick would have ended slavery without a shot being fired”
I always thought that the American Civil War arose out of the collision of slavery with the competing technology that was making slavery unnecessary.
I have wondered how much less hate would be with us today if those shots had not been fired.
Ah, yes, remember the great joy of the Black Death? It brought great wealth to Europe. Not by producing more, but by eliminating 1/3 of the owners of the existing assets. Holder sees going back to the neolithic as an advance. “Change you can believe in.™”
Sorry couldn’t resist it
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03256/Design_3256318b.jpg
“Leonardo DiCaprio unveils futuristic eco-resort for Belize”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/centralamericaandthecaribbean/belize/11515287/Leonardo-DiCaprio-unveils-futuristic-eco-resort-for-Belize.html
So he’s not worried about sea levels rising then???
What a fantastic plan — create an exclusive conclave for the ultra-rich where plastic bottles will be banned. Shades of Elysium!
My question is: will the police force be required to use bicycles and non carbon-emitting weapons to respond when an ISIS cell decides to storm the compound?
watch for that Hurricane to erase that paradise at least once every 20-30 years.
Bonus! More job creation!
That is a cartoon, not a plan.
“consider the difference in productivity between the solar and coal power production industries. Both industries support about 174,000 jobs in the U.S. while coal provides about 150 times more power at this time (about 0.25% to about 39%). Hardly a winning substitution.”
Can’t argue with logic like that. Now if we could only find something less efficient that solar we would have full employment.
Steve, do you have a link to that assertion? ( I am hoping you do.)
I see it is taken from the post, but with no link Thanks for any help finding the actual source and evidence.
http://fortune.com/2015/01/16/solar-jobs-report-2014/
This only gives coal MINING employment. Including coal transport and electrical production gets you to roughly equal numbers.
David, that was my attempt at sarcasm.
Human musclepower cannot compete with EBT or earn the mandated minimum wage.
So, after fossil fuels, the progressive’s system must collapse.
But he’s absolutely right. Use less energy and bring back slavery. The Roman Empire did pretty well using slave power. What could be wrong with that?
Absolutely. Farmers are going to need a lot of help soon. Quickest way to get extra manpower.
Why are folk so afraid of pointing out the last time around the cost of labor was reduced by simply not feeding them? Hitler’s concentration camps were work camps as the slogan over the gate at Auschwitz testifies! Working for whom you may ask? For those mega corporations and state projects favored by the “elite”, all for the greater good of the homeland! At root the green agenda is not only scientifically incompetent but totalitarian and genocidal as a necessary result. Just how big a step for those like Ehrlich and his fellow travelers to label humanity “useless consumers” deserving of the “final solution”. Oh wait! They already say so!
Don’t worry, this time around they also will not forget to get the gold teeth as the workers outlive their productive contribution. Recycling don’t you know…
Seriously, he’s right. Think about it. For instance, if we don’t have energy to power those really huge construction cranes that help us build skyscrapers, then, the construction company would have to hire a few thousand people to work the ropes and pullies to haul those marble slabs and steel beams up 20 stories. Thus, we’d be replacing 1 or two jobs with thousands of jobs.
And that evil Eli Whitney and his cotton gin thingy, he killed millions of jobs. And those idiots that invented the water powered wheat grinders, they killed millions of jobs. If we only had the sense to see that we should get rid of all the machines (the ones that use energy in one form or another), we’d have jobs for everyone.
Steel? How are you going to make steel without fossil fuels (particularly coal)?
We can go back to the Bronze Age. Problem solved.
Yeah, but think of all the pyramids we could build, if only we could figure out how they were built in the first place. Hey, we could employ 10,000 John Holdrens just figuring out how they were built.
Yay! Lets start building pyramids!
dccowboy is right, every advance in technology results in more jobs, not fewer jobs. That may be counterintuitive to the folks who wring their hands over fossil fuels. The same economic illiterates don’t understand Bastiat’s Broken Window Fallacy, which ties in with their mind-set.
If we take their thinking to its logical conclusion, the government could hire workers to dig 10’X10’X10′ holes in parks, then move those holes fifty feet every six weeks. Think of the advance in employment, not to mention productivity!
Oh, wait…
Re: Eli Whitney, it required the use of at least 50 slaves to separate the seeds by hand from a bale of cotton every day. Whitney’s invention required one man to crank the gin, doing the same amount of work in two hours. Yet employment in the South increased — while the demand for importing slaves decreased substantially.
And then there were the ‘firemen’ on trains when I was growing up. Every high school kid wanted that well paid job. Unions demanded that railroads must keep a fireman on each diesel locomotive — even though the job of a fireman was to shovel coal under the boiler. Ignorance of the way technology impacts employment is widespread; another failure of the government education industry — one of the biggest failures of all time.
Dbstealey, regarding Eli, I read somewhere that a reduced need for slaves was Eli’s hope. The result was that the cost reduction provided by Eli’s machine allowed a lower price for cotton based products and a greater demand for raw cotton which required more slaves than before. The law of unintended consequences goes way back. The article sounded right to me.
I’m not a mathematician, but there must be a simpler way of defining this. Can it be boiled down so my liberal eco-friends can understand it?
Is there another way of stating this without lifting 8000 one hundred pound sacks every hour?
Simple – the value of dumb manual labor is the price of running an electric motor equal in power to a person. If that is 200 watts, then that is 1/5 of a kilowatt which costs about $0.15 per hour. So the value of mindless manual labor is around $0.03 per hour.
We can flip that around and say we will generate electricity by paying people to turn generators at a living wage: $15/hr for 200 watts or $60/hr per kilowatt. That gives millions of people living wage jobs and electricity at only $60/kw-hr. 400 times the current cost.
My math says it would be $75/hour per kilowatt, based on 15/hr for 200 watts, which would make it 500 times the current cost. 😉
Tell them that in order to have their sustainable planet they must now grow all of their own food and make all of their own clothing and walk everywhere (or find someone to carry them). All of it.
There is just a tiny problem, New York. With no energy (diesel fuel for buses and electricity for the subway) available you would have to go back to using horses. And remember that New York was expected to drown under the rising tide of horse manure, due to all the animals dragging those horse cars and carriages around.
Was good for the Rhubarb, though.
A lot of inconvenience for the rikshaw-coolies. Another inconvenient truth.
And inconvenient for those in skyscrapers. Imagine walking up all those flights of stairs.
He might be right. One backhoe can do the work of 100 men with shovels. Let’s go back to the 19th century when thousands of people, paid terrible wagers for back-breaking work, toiled all day in the hot sun, to lay rail lines, dig canals, dig foundations. Holders can lead the way and grab the first shovel.
David L sez –
Oh, no, no, no… our political overlords are far more equal than the rest of us and so need us to shoulder their share of the workload in order to concentrate on the thankless task of planning and organizing our glorious contributions of labor for the betterment of all humankind. I’m sure Mr. Holdren can rightfully expect grateful laborers to form a line in front of him begging for a chance to relieve him of his turn to wield a shovel. Of course the lucky ones will be rewarded with a ham sandwich… if there is any ham.
(Sorry for the cynicism, ya’ll. I’m usually a little more lighthearted in my comments but in this case, I’m calling it as I see it. We already have a political ruling class mentality in D.C. and it’s not getting any better. Now excuse me while I go check in with HRH Michelle to see what I’m allowed to eat for lunch.)
“You see, in this world there’s two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig.” – Blondie
I knew one thing: as soon as anyone said you didn’t need a gun, you’d better take one along that worked.
~ Raymond Chandler
@Gamecock and dbstealey
Now that cheered me up, considerably! I think I’ll go check on my – ahem – “security system” and see if there are any gaps that need filled.
Holdren and his mentor, Ehrlich have gotten away with spreading a huge amount of bs throughout their careers.
This is the only difference between us and the Roman Empire.
The Romans employes slaves who were fed with Egyptian and North African grain, because that was the only energy source and motive power available. In great contrast the modern world employs machines, and we feed them oil and coal. As I heard the story, one barrel of oil contains 10,000 man-hours of hard labour.
So the answer is obvious, if we want to reduce oil and coal consumption, we should reintroduce slavery. Why didn’t I think of that – its so obvious, just return to slavery and all our problems are solved…….. /sarc
Ralph
ISIS and Boko Haram are doing it already.