
Corky Boyd writes:
The latest NATICE graphics show Lake Erie totally covered with 9/10+ ice, Lakes Superior and Huron are nearly totally covered with 9/10+ and Ontario about 80% covered with 7/10+. It is likely Superior and Huron will join Erie with total coverage of 9/10+ in today or tomorrow’s report.
It is possible Ontario could do the same as it is experiencing near or sub-zero temperatures tonight.
The NATICE daily reports are posted about 5:00pm EST. Link is here:
http://www.natice.noaa.gov/products/great_lakes.html
If you have trouble pulling up the ice charts, here are direct links to the West and East areas for Feb. 18:
http://www.natice.noaa.gov/pub/special/great_lakes/2015/charts/composite_east/el150218color.jpg
http://www.natice.noaa.gov/pub/special/great_lakes/2015/charts/composite_west/wl150218color.jpg
It is an unusual event for 3 of the lakes to freeze over, which only happens once every 6 to 8 years. Four or more freezing is a most unusual event.
[We’ll have further reports on WUWT as we know more – Anthony]
So mush for the hottest year ever.
That’s because last year wasn’t the hottest year “ever”…
They froze over last year too.
Yes they did freeze over last year. However this year, the lakes were actually well behind last year by 20% just two weeks ago, and it wasn’t until Tuesday that the 2015 total surpassed the 2014. 2 weeks ago, we had the 6th largest freeze over 35 years for that particular date, now we have the largest in the last 35 years. Note, I say 35 years because that is how much data I can see. It could be the largest for a much larger period, or not.
It was the biggest lie ever.
Then you should just do what they do and call it the “The Largest ever Recorded”
@marque2 8:42 am.
2 weeks ago, we had the 6th largest freeze over 35 years for that particular date, now we have the largest in the last 35 years. Note, I say 35 years because that is how much data I can see.
Interesting. Are these facts from your personal records, some pay-for-service ice records, or public domain source?
Just wait until 2017.
Well that’s what happens when it gets so hot / sarc
It was the hottest year globally, not in the U.S. The U.S. is not the world.
What we are seeing in North America is the result of Arctic amplification (Arctic warming at a fast rate that mid-latitudes), causing the Jet Stream to take extreme paths. Parts of the Arctic and other parts of the Northern hemisphere are seeing record warmth, while eastern North America experiences record cold. Evidence is mounting that this a direct result of AGW.
It is -43 F this morning (19 Feb 2015) at Eureka NU in the far northern Arctic of Canada and it has reached as low as -56 F this month (Feb 2015). Barry, Is that what you consider “record warmth” in the Arctic?
What is remarkable is that you can keep a straight face when you say that.
Evidence is mounting?? Seriously? What a world you live in Barry.
This meridional flow of the jet stream is nothing new. See https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2015/02/19/stiff-competition-for-stupidest-tweet/ for a February 1934 temperature map of the CONUS which is quite similar to this February’s temperature distributions. Saying that the “evidence is mounting” is simply hand-waving.
Also, when error bars are considered, the unqualified statement that 2014 was globally the hottest year ever is simply not true.
No such evidence exists, observable or otherwise, and if any evidence did exist its been debunked by http://barnes.atmos.colostate.edu/FILES/MANUSCRIPTS/Barnes_2013_GRL_w_supp.pdf
No it wasn’t, even Gavin who originally made the statement admitted it was outside the error bars, and was only less than 40% probable. This is why I’m a skeptic, I can’t stand being lied to.
There is evidence that Barry is AGW (Al Gore’s Wife) and has been mounted.
Sad how the Stockholm Syndrome works.
How many people died of the HOT last year. Want to guess how many have died of the COLD, this year?
Like it never, evah happened before like evah
http://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2014/12/02/11646
@Barry, calling something true that has a 38% probability of being correct is the best of lies, the best lies have a grain of truth in them. Goebbels would be proud.
Wasn’t the hottest ever in Canada either or Mexico so you can pretty much eliminate North America. Still not the world.
And so what you are saying is if it wasn’t for global warming North America would actually be warmer now?
As an Analytical Chemist, I cringe when your kind of logic postures as science.
I do understand your confusion though, because if you are not doing real science everyday you may easily be led astray by Climastrologists and the media.
Or it could be that the US has the highest concentration of home computers hooked to the internet, thermometers, time to check them, and thus skeptics.
But man those Tswana? Those guys are cooking!
You came to a knife fight with a nerf gun and wearing your sister’s dress, Barry.
Do yourself a favour: switch off the TV, unplug from the MSM messaging and do some research at sites like this. Looking at the temperature of the earth as measured by satellites, over the last 18 years, might be a good place to start, for example. Then you can move on to climategate. There is hope for you.
Barry, if your AGW postulation is true, then how do you explain the New England February’s of 1905 and 1907?? 2015 is likely to be behind those two years temp-wise. There are other years as well that were either colder and/or snowier than this one. All before your supposed AGW put us in a death spiral. If you can explain all those records away pre-AGW, then why cannot we assume that this winter is non-AGW induced as well. You see, it works both ways. What happened in the past CAN happen in the future without need for new explanation.
The problem is that I am having a hard time finding our where exactly IS this part of the world that is so much warmer that – despite the cold in N America, and N Europe – the planet is warmer overall. The Eastern half of N America is uniformly 25-30 F below 30 year normals, not sure how much the UK is below, but it is also enough for the people to be talking records. Similary my relatives in Norway are saying the same thing. So somewhere must be ******* warm to make up for it!
Could it be in places where we don’t have so many thermometers that people have to infer the data?
Barry, I think you’re getting confused. “BS piling up” is not the same as “Evidence is mounting…”
Oooooooooooooooor it could be due to the large drop in UV from the sun, less UV less interaction with Ozone changing the temp in the stratosphere which in turn drives the ferrell cells closer to the equator. Not everything you cant explain is caused by the omni potent force of a trace gas
Barry, do you realize you may have stumbled onto the reason for ice advance into mid-latitudes? AKA ice ages?
AGW is UFO for people with all their own teeth.
Barry, can you be a bro and pass over those temperature charts for China, Mongolia, the Sudan, the heart of the Congo, all of Antarctica, all of mother Russia, Saudi Arabia, Lybia, Iran, Chad and Namibia? I have someone else here trying to tell me that last year wasn’t the warmest on record and I wouldn’t mind showing the data and make this guy look like a real fool. Thanks in advance, from one Orwell lover to another..
P.S. The data can be made up too, as long as we have ‘data’. Oh wait who am I kidding, we don’t even need data, we just need to say it and it becomes true.
“Globally”? If the U.S. isn’t a part of that, it didn’t happen “globally” then, did it?
Barry,
I have a degree in Chemistry and Civil Engineering I’ve been thinking analytically for quite a while now and I’ve been following this topic (GlowBULL warming) since Time Magazine told us in 1974 about “Another Ice Age coming?” (I was in 8th grade, and even then I knew it was BS)
So, If you don’t mind sir, could you please tell everyone your analytical degrees?. Your guru ALGORE only took ONE general science class after he flunked out of Divinity school, and If I recall correctly, made an impressive D!. This gives him the authority to totally negate the yeas of research from historical meteorologists, historical climatologists, and atmospheric scientists like Dr. John Christy at UAH, Even the so called “science Guy- Bill Nye” (A mechanical engineering student by degree) does not have the credentials to spout off about this topic.
Unfortunately, the low information voters (LIV’s), this includes the Occupy/Bowel Movement types who watch the LSN actually buy this crap without using a single the neuron in their brain. For some reason, the folks on OBola’s side of the fence seem to like the thought of disaster, anarchy, and dictators as long as they can get free stuff that someone else has paid for.
So Barry, please be honest and let us know what your analytical background is,
While your at it, I won’t ask you to explain the multiple ice ages this world has seen, but I will ask you to please explain to us why your hero ALGORE runs like a school girl when challenged to a real debate. I suppose he is running to the nearest hotel where he can get a naked massage, Lord Christopher Monckton has made multiple offers to debate the man behind the curtains ALGORE, but AL-Baby always seems to have an excuse or can’t be found, or just says “the Science is settled” Well the science ISN’t Settled. The word “coward” comes to mind. Anyway,
Let’s here it Barry…your academic credentials sir please?
This is nothing new. Anyone who has lived through the 50s, 60s, or 70s has seen this before. Natural cycles…
Rob says
not sure how much the UK is below, but it is also enough for the people to be talking records.
Well, Rob – the only talk of records in the UK last year was that the Central England Temperature was the highest in the whole 350-year record, and most of western Europe was similarly warm
Low water levels caused by global warming. They do say the key to the future is in the past.
It’s a cycle I tells ya.
Now think about snowfalls being just a thing of the past. They used to be confident about that until boooooooooooooooooooosh! Now that is also caused by global warming. Global warmers should go and work for the Onion.
I guess having folks like Dr. Al Gore and Barry “leading” the key issues of the day is not a new cultural phenomenon. Some dude name Isaiah made this assertion a few thousand years ago, Isaiah 11:6 “A little child shall lead them.” I apologize in advanced to anyone offended by my clinging to a theological reference.
Jeff What’s Hisface over at Wunderground says Feb. is the
2nd hottest globally. For whatever that is worth.
I have been reading about water extraction by humans and water diversions by humans from the great Lakes. I suppose that is caused by the man they call global warming.
Here is a reminder of what they said in the past about ice cover.
Last spring and early summer was astonishing for the ice still on the Great Lakes. We must act now.
Things are pretty weird, dude. Last week for most of the week it was around 15 degrees F colder in Louisville than in Anchorage. I am in California and it has been oddly warm and there is little snow pack. When it is warmer near the Arctic Circle than south of Chicago I think Houston we have a problem. And you guys take the term ‘global warming’ too literally. One it is a statistical average for the globe of course. Secondly the instability of the climate (which is what we are talking about) will interfere with agriculture. That is certainly true in California where farmland is going out of production due to drought. Hey man, I hope you are right that this all does not matter and that we will get a more normal climate where we have regular rains in the winter here in Cal. But when it rains it is raining harder and then it is dry for a length. Don’t insult me if you can help it. Thanks.
Lake Superior is a superior climate denier!
http://www.ibtimes.com/climate-change-causing-lake-superior-warm-faster-any-lake-planet-1427474
Show me, I’d say. Lake Superior is pretty darn difficult to warm up. Tends cool down to 4°C every winter.
If it freezes over the whole top, it will be 0 degC, at least at the surface. And this is unusual. In 2012, only 10% of all the lakes had ice cover this time of year compared to 85% today. Here is a handy chart. It is updated weekly, on Friday, though, so the data is a bit out of sync with current conditions.
http://iceweb1.cis.ec.gc.ca/Prod20/page3.xhtml
marque2
No. no. It is far worse than that.
Look at an “average” open water lake, from bottom to surface to air temperature a few feet above (2 meter air temperature in the parlance.)
Rock below the bottom (-5 meters: like a cave, the dirt and rocks stay at 8 deg C 5 meters below the surface in Ontario)
Bottom dirt and mud = 4 deg C
Bottom water = 4 deg C (notice it went up?)
Middle water = 3-4 deg C (natural circulation, assumes no water flow)
Upper water = 2-3 deg C
Water surface = 1-2 deg C
Air film (average of water surface and 2 meter air temp) = -10 deg C
Air temp = -20 deg C
Heat lost (from the lake water) is by convection, evaporation, LW radiation (to the sky and space) proportional to 273 + 1 = 274 K ^ 4th
So, the air heats up (because it crosses a comparatively “hot” 1 degree surface, roughened by wind and waves, and it gains water vapor’s energy and enthalpy.
Now, if the lake freezes over … Assume the air temperature is still at -10 deg C.
Rock below the bottom (-5 meters: like a cave, the dirt and rocks stay at 8 deg C 5 meters below the surface in Ontario)
Bottom dirt and mud = 4 deg C
Bottom water = 4 deg C (no real difference down here)
Middle water = 3-4 deg C (natural circulation, assumes no water flow into the lake)
Upper water = 2-3 deg C
Water, right at ice bottom = 0-1 deg C
Bottom of ice = 0-1 deg C (water is freezing to bottom of ice, adding thickness below)
Top of ice = -18
Air film (average of ice surface and 2 meter air temp) = -19 deg C
Air temp = -20 deg C
But the air is “dry”! No evaporation! Heat is being radiated into the sky/space from a surface now -18 + 273 = 255 ^ 4th power.
In addition to radiation losses being reduced, much less energy is lost from the water below because the new ice cover insulates the water from the moving air, (so the film coef for convection goes down), the energy that used to “evaporate” water (heating air and changing its energy with that extra enthalpy by the water mass that used to go “up” into the air) is now inside the freezing water below the ice instead.
So, after freeze over, the downstream air is much colder, much drier, with much less humidity to deposit as snow and ice elsewhere.
That now colder air downstream cools the ground further “south and east” more than the previous humid air does with some additional effects. (Snow doesn’t melt as quickly south and east, the air down there is drier and clearer so more energy hits the still-frozen ice and snow to be instantly reflected back into space, there is less water vapor for new clouds to form so more energy is reflected from the still-lingering ground ice than from the missing upper atmosphere clouds (and, since the clouds are missing, the direct sunlight albedo and penetration are different, etc etc etc.)
In addition to all that you outline, there is also despite ice insulating water below, heat loss continuing and growing ice thickness. Last year, Superior had ice in places until the last week in June, maybe later. The water remains exceptionally cold. This provides a nice running start to ice build-up the following year unless some unusually warm summer weather, or a warm winter, breaks the cycle. We shall see.
Kevin Kilty
True. We do not know what this coming summer will bring, not what next year portends.
Now, I am perhaps the stongest critic of Sereze’s “Arctic Death Spiral” . I will make no bones about how wrong that concept is. With ONE caveat. Sereze – and any one who quotes him or uses the same words! – is dead wrong about the “Arctic” death spiral:
Sereze’s Death Spiral is commonly explained as follows: Global warming causes regional air to heat up – to be hotter than it would otherwise be. That “warm air” causes (local) ice heating and (local) ice melt; (local) ice melt causes more open water which absorbs more sunlight (locally); more sunlight absorbed into the open water (because of water’s darker albedo compared to ice and snow) causes (locally) warmer water which causes more (local) ice to melt. Thus, there is more open water and more sunlight absorbed.”
Is he correct?
Well, his theory is correct – but ONLY where the available sunlight hitting the newly melted waters,a nd being absorbed into the newly opened ocean waters (or lake waters) is greater than the amount absorbed and reflected by the formerly frozen snow and ice!
At what latitude does a Death Spiral take place, and when does it take place?
Seems like a simple requirement of the problem, but Sereze refuses to report where that difference occurs.
See, if there is no sea ice (no lake ice) there can be no Death Spiral. If the sea ice (or land ice) copletely melts every summer now, then the theory of “thinner ice (one summer) means thinner ice (the next spring and summer) and thus “the thinner ice will melt faster the next summer.” Well, if all of the ice completely melts each summer – even if only for one day – then ALL of the next winter’s ice needs to re-freeze the next winter.
It is ONLY the combined effect of “What is the difference in energy absorbed by open water and that absorbed by ice covering that water?” AND “What is the available energy reflected from open water and from ice covering that water?” THAT is the quesion Sereze refuses to address.
Well, there is no sea ice and no lake ice in the tropics, so his theory is irrelevent to CAGW. And to global warming in general.
There is almost no waters covered by ice in the southern hemisphere – certainly none down to Cape Horn at -56 south. So, ONLY the ANtarctic Sea Ice matters down there.
And, when you run the numbers, the Antarctic sea ice IS EXPANDING, and the greater area of Antarctic Sea Ice IS reflecting more energy every year by TerrorWatts from the earth.
Sereze is correct!
More Antarctic sea ice DOES cool the planet!
More sea ice one year DOES increase the residual sea ice left over to re-freeze the next year! (The Antarctic sea ice anomaly DOES keep getting larger each year!
Much more energy IS reflected by sea ice between 67 south latitude and 58 south latitude every day than is absorbed by the previously open water!
Now, what was true between 68-69-70 south latitude and 58 south latitude is even MORE TRUE up north.
At 42 north, Lake Eire. More lake ice = more energy reflected, less energy absorbed.
At 42-45 north, Lake Michigan. Same thing. More lake ice = more energy reflected from the region, colder regional weather
At 46-47-48 north, Lake Superior? Same thing. More lake ice = more energy reflected from the region, colder weatehr, more lake ice area and thicker lake ice left over each summer (almost! – Not quite yet!) to refelct energy later each spring and reflect energy earlier the next winter.
At 60 north? Hudson Bay, Bering Sea. Yes, Sereze is correct. These still melt every year in the summer, so there has never (lately) been any multi-year thick ice remaining year-to-year. But, less sea ice still means more solar energy could be absorbed, more sea ice means more energy reflected.
(Hudson Bay has the same physics and albedoes as down south at the Antarctic’s sea ice edge: The Antarctic sea ice is “cleaner, and has a different albedo characteristic summer melt period, so you have to run the hour-by-hour math for every summer day. But three things differ between Hudson Bay and the Antarctic Sea ice.
1. There is a 1.2 Mkm^2 limit on HudsonBay ice. It cannot get any larger. It cannot get any smaller than today either! When “all” Hudson Bay sea ice melts every year, there is no more to melt. (Obvious, isn’t it?) The only thing that “more” global warming can do is melt that final bit if HudsonBay sea ice a bit earlier in the year. But it will STILL freeze each winter. Then be present to melt again the next year. Globally, there is no feedback in planetwide heat gian frmo entirely losing all of Hudson Bay’s tiny 1.2 Mkm^2 area.
2. As mentioned, Hudson Bay is tiny. The “excess” sea ice around Antarctic at latitudes 60 south and 61, and 62, and 62, and 64 etc. has routinely exceeded Hudson Bay in size recently. And that excess sea ice anomaly (the excess sea ice down south) continues ALL year to cool the planet.
3. Hudson Bay is melting during June-July-August each year, when the sun is at its lowest heat energy at Top of Atmosphere. Antarctic sea ice is instead reflecting energy all year, but the Antarctic summer is at a time when the earth is closer to the sun, and the earth is receiving more energy from the sun every second of every 24 hour day. By September, at the equinox when the Antarctic sea ice is reflecting 5 times the solar energy as what the edge of the Arctic sea is receiving, Hudson Bay (and the Bering Sea) are both completely melted. There is no sea ice ever present then.
4. (I miscounted above.) There is NO LIMIT to the area possible for Antarctic Sea Ice to expand into. It can keep going every year without boundary, ever closer to the Equator and ever-more reflecting more energy back into space. Not so for Hudson Bay. Once frozen, it can get no larger. Once the Arctic Ocean freezes over down to the Canadian coast and the Siberian coastlines, it can get no higher in sea ice area. So, there is an absolute maximum amount of solar energy that can EVER be reflected (or absorbed) in the Arctic Ocean, Hudson Bay, or Bering Seas.
In the Arctic Ocean, howeer, the sea ice is much further north. Its southern border is a rough circle well beyond the Arctic Circle at 71 – 76 – 82 north latitudes. At THOSE latitudes, Sereze’s theory is reversed.
There is never enough solar energy present to be dominant in heat absorbed/heat lost/heat reflected in any month other than May-June-July!
The other nine months of the year?
More Arctic sea ice = less heat lost from the Arctic Ocean = a warmer planet.
Less Arctic sea ice = more heat loss => A cooler planet.
When the incident angle of the sun’s energy is less than about 8 to 10 degrees, water is almost totally reflective.
AndyG55
No, not really.
There have been a number of different equations for the albedo of the open ocean that have been proposed over time. The only one that has stood up to actual measurements over open water at different wind speeds is Pegau and Paulson, 2001 using data (as usual) from the SHEBA over-winter Arctic sea ice study. W. Scott Pegau, Clayton A Paulson; Annals of Glaciology 33, 2001.
The rest are below:
Briegleb, 1986
Ebert and Curry, 1993
Grenfell and Perovich, 1984
Katsaros , McMurdie, Lind and DeVault, 1985
Maykut and Perovich, 1987
Perovich, 2002
Payne, 1972 (ancestor of many of these)
Preisendorfer and Mobley, 1986
Saunders, 1967
Simpsonn and Paulson, 1979
Coakley, 2003 (repeats from the above)
Kloe and Stoffelen, 2008
Jin, Charlock, Smith and Rutledge, 2004 (also uses Payne’s Chesapeake Lighthouse Tower, but updates it with dramatic differences between direct and diffuse albedo’s from a new mounting platform)
Rutledge, Schuster 2004
Jin, Charlock, and Rutledge, 2002
Long and Ackerman, 2000
Notice any pattern here? There are several others as well we don’t have to go into. Notice that Fresnel equations are useless (misleading even!) on the open ocean with live waves and real measurements.
Regardless, Pegau and Paulsen duplicate the measured albedo’s of direct radiation to the lowest solar elevation angle, and provide measurements for wave and wind speed corrections that do work. In my opinion, their values are a little bit too low, but they at least provide measured data to comment upon. Above 30 degrees SEA, maintain the default 0.066 values.
1. For diffuse radiation, the albedo is the “standard” “everybody knows it” value of 0.066 for all solar elevation angles. If the solar radiation is diffused through clouds, use this albedo. ONLY.
But first, reduce the remaining solar radiation as for direct radiation on a clear day because the atmosphere still attenuates the energy received at top-of-atmosphere.
Then, reduce the amount of radiation by 70% because the clouds reflect sunlight off of the top of the clouds back into space.
Then, if storms (high winds for example) reduce the radiation by the energy lost in the clouds themselves. Usually, the final radiation is 10% of the top-of-atmosphere values or less.
For direct radiation, clear skies.
Calculate the earth’s declination angle, the day angle mu_day, and the hour angle to get the solar elevation angle.
Calculate the air mass for that solar elevation angle, and assign (or select) an appropriate atmospheric clarity value.
You might be given a solar elevation angle directly. Regardless, you will have a solar elevation angle.
(If you have a solar zenith angle, SZA = 90-SEA )
Define mu = sin (SEA) = cos (SZA)
Define w = wind speed (meters/sec)
Albedo = [ 0.026/ (mu^1.7 + (-0.0002*w^2 + 0.0076*w + 0.0266) ]+ [ 0.15 *( mu – 0.1) * (mu – 0.5) * (mu – 1) ]
Thus, you get the following. Note that over 30 degrees SEA (60 degrees SZA) you end up back at Wikipedia’s default 0.066 “standard” albedo.
This is why the default Wikipedia albedo is “adequate” for equatorial latitudes going as far as 45 – 50 degrees, and for midday albedo at certain times of the year in the Arctic summer.
You started something and answers/suggestions/discussion started.
I don’t know much about the specifics of Great Lakes warming/cooling and this was very informative.
Thanks to all the replies.
The hapless professor emeritus.
so? this year they learnt from last and stockpiled coal etc?
Weather not Climate.
But Cool in every sense of the word.
“Weather is climate. More specifically, aggregations of weather are climate. Means, averages, and distributions of daily weather comprise climate.”
From Actually, Weather Is Climate (William M. Briggs, Statistician & Consultant. Jan. 22, ’10) http://pjmedia.com/blog/actually-weather-is-climate/
Climate is what one expects while weather is what one gets. Warmist cooks have been expecting and predicting super-warm anomalies and rising sea levels for 25 years, only to get the weather that they did not expect and the insignificant increase in ocean levels, if at all. The famous ‘children will not know what snow is’ prophecy has long gone awry, together with rising ocean levels, disappearing Arctic ice and desertification of the Amazon among many others. The planet is on a cooling curve due to the current solar slumber which leading solar scientists predict that this may last decades and result in a Maunder-like event.
I’m investing in wool.
Unless they warm, then its climate.
When we point out extreme cold, the warmists always say “GLOBAL warming”. And then they will, in turn, use some abnormal warm spot to prove that. This season is Alaska being too warm for the Iditarod race. When it is cold, a warmist will say “everywhere else is warm”; but when it is warm, a warmist will say “see, I’m right”. Heads I win, tails you lose.
More Great Lakes Links
http://www.glerl.noaa.gov/data/ice/
Second year in a row, eh? It must be getting hotter…
I live in Michigan, and I am also about to freeze over for the first time in 6 to 8 years ;0)
For what ever reasons Lake Michigan seems to have the least propensity for freezing over. It is further south than Superior but not as deep. It has to have something to do with it’s profile and the north-south orientation of it’s long axis. Seems that the western shore areas are usually the first to freeze and those shores would be on the lee side of the lake in the prevailing winds. But still I think there has to be something else, something not yet understood, to explain why it is a rare event for that lake to freeze almost completely over.
Some of that delay (between lakes Michigan and Superior) is due to the lower latitude of Michigan (Superior is further north) , and the deeper water of Superior, but not a significantly greater surface area. Lake Michigan is modestly deep, but runs north south. Shallow towards the south end, deepest (as you would expect) in the center where today’s “open spot” still leaves a hole for the water to continue to cool off by radiation and evaporation to space.
Take a rough triangle at the south end: top is at 43 north (Milwaukee to Grand Rapids to Chicago), bottom is at 41.5.
Weighted average area would be a little north of 42.25. Compare it to Lake Superior, whose entire surface is up at 47 north latitude.
Lat 42.25 Lat 47 Hour South Lk Lake Michigan Superior 0.0 0 0 1.0 0 0 3.0 0 0 5.0 0 0 7.0 1 0 9.0 295 228 11.0 548 456 12.0 582 487 13.0 548 456 15.0 295 228 17.0 1 0 19.0 0 0 21.0 0 0 23.0 0 01688 1368 = Sum of every 2 hour period
Yesterday, day of year 49, 18 February, that meant a total of 320 watts/m^2 x 2 hour interval = 640 watts/m^2 extra heat received in south Lake. Michigan than into what would have been the water in Lake Superior.
The deep water of Lake Superior, compared to the shallow south end of Michigan will keep the upper surface water (that part which will freeze!) much colder as well, so Superior upper water “starts off” much colder in November, December, and January.
Lake Eire is also at this 42.25 latitude. And, and as you see each year, it also takes a long time to freeze – but Eire is shallower, and so it does freeze completely over to reduce/eliminate the :lake effect” snow on the southern and eastern shores.
Unfortunately, it “does” freeze over, so the snow will ease (less evaporation from ice-covered waters) but that means no heat gain either into the air moving east and south. If all the lakes freeze over, the resulting future weeks before the final thaw will be colder, drier. This far south, that extra ice IS reflecting a significant amount of solar energy back into space, never to be seen again the rest of the year.
Actually and surprisingly the Great Lake that freezes up the least is Lake Ontario.
From the Canadian Ice Services
“Some of the Great Lakes are far more likely to freeze over than others. The Canadian Ice Service (CIS) has been keeping statistics since the 1970s, and has calculated the likelihood of the lakes freezing to the point where 90 per cent of their surface is covered in ice.
Erie, the shallowest and farthest south of the lakes, is the most likely to freeze to that point, with a chance of 69 per cent. Huron comes next at a 22-per-cent probability, followed by Superior at 17 per cent and Michigan at 11 per cent. Lake Ontario has a mere 1-in-100 chance of having 90-per-cent ice coverage, the CIS estimates. ”
The last time Ontario froze over was in 1934 and typically only 25% freezes over”
Well at least we know the heat has not been hiding in the great lakes.
Waterloo, Ontario earlier this week had its coldest night on record with -34.9 ℃, that is -31 Fahrenheit. We are located on the peninsula between lakes Erie, Ontario and Huron.
I love BC weather.
What? you like pouring rain 9 months of the year? I love the weather in Hawaii.
Maybe he is talking about the Roman Warm Period, That started about 250BC 😛
Tell me that was sarcasm.
-Does it always rain here in BC?
-I don’t know, I’m only five!
I pay special attention to Lake Michigan, since lake-effect snow from it directly affects me. Right now– it’s still open, so the lake-effect snow machine is still in business in Northwest Indiana/Southwest Lower Michigan.
Lake Champlain in VT has also frozen completely over for the 2nd straight year. Fairly rare that it happens 2 years in a row.
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/local/2015/02/16/ice-lake-champlain/23527289/
MattN
Do be aware that 2014 was – we are assured, & possibly also on Wikipedia, which even I can edit, and so must be the ultimate, un-controvertible reference – was the ‘Warmest Evahhhh’.
I guess Lake Champlain needs a consultation or several on its anger management issues . . .
Auto
[SNIP then present your “evidence”, otherwise it is just an unsubstantiated and wildly off-topic rant -mod]
Reblogged this on The Next Grand Minimum and commented:
Is this more evidence we are on the cusp of the next grand minimum?
@Russ, yes that is something to actually fear and if Svensmark is on the mark humanity has a real problem.
I’m wondering if Chesapeake Bay is going to freeze over again.
Not likely, it hasn’t been cold enough for long enough. I remember as a teenager driving down the Magothy, down the bay past the oyster men at Sandy Point tonging oyster through holes cut into the ice into the beds of their pick-ups, under the Bay Bridge (most dangerous part, the ice around the pylons was thin), up the Severn, exiting at a boat ramp on Weems Creek in Annapolis. I really didn’t have much common sense back then.
You can find Great lakes ice information here as well
http://iceweb1.cis.ec.gc.ca/Prod20/page2.xhtml?CanID=11080&lang=en
And the great lakes freeze from global warming?
It must be climate change then. 😉
It must be the hottest year ever. Like that mental pygmy John kerry says, “with global warming we can expect more of these extreme cold events. So the hotter the earth gets the colder the temperatures will be.
It’s the “new logic.”
Oh ……you just don’t understand science
The NNW surface wind blowing across Lake Superior is 7 mph and at -16.9 F and as it crosses onto the southern shore is -1.7 F at this time. (10:12 AM) Seems it is picking up a lot of heat from what little open water there is on Lake Superior.
Here in NW Wisconsin this morning it was -31.4 F at 6:30 AM local.
Globull Warming—- Yeah Right.
I wonder who picked the colours for the graph – at least they make the lakes look hot!
I think that it has to do with the decline in lake levels over recent years. The water level in the great lakes is ebbing lower over the years and hence the water is more likely to freeze. As the water levels fall the freeze may be total in later years. The St Lawrence used to be frozen nine months of the year once upon a time. That has not happened for the last twenty years. So from all indications the receding water levels in the lakes seem to support the freeze up.
All of the Great Lakes are at or above their historical average currently.
Lake Superior completely freezes over about every 11 years on average. It did it last year and looks to be well on the way to doing it again this year. Its water level, as measured by me against a concrete poured over Basalt boat slip, is also high.
Isn’t 11 years the length of the solar cycle itself?
As we all know, and I am guessing you do too, Correlation does not necessarily equate to Causation. Not saying it isn’t solar cycle related, never put any thought to it, but in order for the big lake to freeze over you need the combination of a prolonged period of low temps and light winds.
There is not a lot prettier, in my opinion, than watching the spires of mist rise off the unfrozen surface of Superior when the air temp is at or below about -10 F (-23 C) as the big lake gives up heat to the atmosphere. Absolutely gorgeous if you have had the good sense to dress for warmth.
Coldspots move over the planet . The last two years N.America has been cold while Europe has been not so cold. Here in Stockholm temperature has been sitting at the freezingpoint for weeks. which is a rather mild winter. The Baltic sea is practically ice-free , whilst in a real winter its possible to walk from Stockholm to St.Peterburg over the ice. Any bets on where the coldspot will be next year ?
Look at the ocean water temps to give you the best indication of winter air temps over the planet. The warm pool off the North American west coast and the position of the warm/cool pools in the tropical Pacific essentially dictate where winter highs and lows form. These dictate where the jet stream flows driving arctic or maritime air.
Shshsh……..
Don’t mention coldspots please, we suppose to be looking out for the hotspots, the missing ones.
Keep quite and don’t spoil it for the AGWers, they still looking for the hotspots, desperately.
Coldspots will F… that totally, up to a point in to tempting them to proclaim that the couldspots are indeed the missing hotspots they being looking out for so long and finally found.
You never know with these guys, please do not tempt them…:-)
cheers
I eyeball it and others measure it, the lake levels are up
http://www.yourdailyglobe.com/story/2014/12/05/news/lake-superior-water-level-above-long-term-average/4020.html
Looks like the wind is pushing the ice to the south shore of lake Ontario, fairly open north shore on the current visible satellite imagery (animation):
http://www.aviationweather.gov/adds/satellite/displaysat?region=DTW&isingle=mult_big&itype=vis
I live on the western end of Lake Ontario. The predominant wind direction is from the Northwest to the Southeast which usually leads to relatively low snow fall accumulations where we live. This year we have experienced a number of storms from the East-North-East that have led to significant accumulations. These storms have been characterized by very cold air around the -20C mark. I think it is this combination that has led to a significantly larger ice area this year.
Today I saw a photo of a nearly totally frozen Niagara Falls. It’s on the UK Telegraph, in a series of photos showing the record snow.
It’s the 8th photo in this link:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11420088/Snowmageddon-17-amazing-photos-of-record-breaking-US-snow.html