Nutty claim: Advent of geoengineering may help lower temperature of debate over climate change

geoengineering-diagram
Image: John J. Reilly Center, University of Notre Dame

From Yale University and the “we had to burn the village to save it” department:

Geoengineering, an emerging technology aimed at counteracting the effects of human-caused climate change, also has the potential to counteract political polarization over global warming, according to a new study.

Published Feb. 9 in the journal Annals of the American Academy of Political and Social Science, the study found that participants — members of large, nationally representative samples in both the United States and England — displayed more open-mindedness toward evidence of climate change, and more agreement on the significance of such evidence, after learning of geoengineering.

“The result casts doubt on the claim that the advent of geoengineering could lull the public into complacency,” said Dan Kahan, professor of law and psychology at Yale Law School and a member of the research team that conducted the study.

“We found exactly the opposite: Members of the public who learned about geoengineering were more concerned and less polarized about global warming than those who were told of the need to reduce greenhouse gas emissions as a way to reduce climate change,” he said.

As defined by the U.S. National Academy of Sciences (NAS), “geoengineering” refers to deliberate, large-scale manipulations of Earth’s environment in order to offset some of the harmful consequences of human-caused climate change. Potential examples include solar reflectors that would cool global temperatures by reflecting more sunlight away from the Earth and so-called “carbon scrubbers,” which would remove CO2 from the atmosphere.

Both the NAS and the Royal Society, the preeminent association of expert scientists in the United Kingdom, have issued reports calling for stepped-up research on geoengineering, which also was identified as a necessary measure for counteracting the impact of global warming in the latest assessment report of the United Nations’ Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

In the study, researchers divided the 3,000 participants into groups, providing some with information on geoengineering and others with information on proposals to limit greenhouse gas emissions. They instructed the participants to read and evaluate actual study findings offering evidence human activity, including the burning of fossil fuels, was heating the Earth’s temperature and creating serious environmental risks including coastal flooding and drought.

“The participants who learned about geoengineering were less polarized about the validity of the evidence than were the ones who got information on carbon-emission limits,” said Kahan.

“In fact, the participants who read about carbon-emission limits were even more polarized than subjects in a control group, who read the information on the evidence of global warming without first learning about any potential policy responses,” he said.

This result was consistent with previous research on a dynamic known as “cultural cognition,” which describes the tendency of individuals to react dismissively to evidence of environmental risks when that evidence threatens their values or group identities.

“The information on geoengineering,” said Kahan, “helped to offset bias by revealing to those study participants with a pro-technology outlook that acknowledging evidence of global warming does not necessarily imply the ‘end of free markets’ or the ‘death of capitalism,’ a theme that some climate-change policy advocates emphasize.”

Kahan added that the significance of the research extended beyond the issue of whether the advent of geoengineering would stifle or promote public engagement with climate science.

“What’s important is that people assess information about science based not only on its content but on its cultural meaning or significance,” explained Kahan. “The study supports the conclusion that science communicators need to broadcast engaging signals along both the ‘content’ and ‘meaning’ channels if they want their message to get through.”

###

The study was conducted by a team of researchers associated with the Cultural Cognition Project at Yale Law School and the Center for Applied Social Research at the University of Oklahoma.

Citation: Annals of the American Academy of Political and Social Science DOI: 10.1177/0002716214559002

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DickF
February 11, 2015 9:50 am

“Geoengineering?” Can these people actually be serious? Have any of them ever heard of the Law of Unintended Consquences?
Not with my planet, you don’t.

Gamecock
Reply to  DickF
February 11, 2015 10:30 am

Billions of people will die . . .
but maybe that’s the point.

RWturner
Reply to  Gamecock
February 11, 2015 11:47 am

That’s precisely the point.

gbaikie
Reply to  DickF
February 11, 2015 10:37 am

The political classes have already spent trillions of dollars Geoengineering by doing things which are said to done to reduce CO2 and suppose be “sustainable”.
One might be comforted by the fact that such efforts has been completely ineffectual- but it is money wasted which attempting Geoengineering.
[Incompetent Geoengineering based upon the pseudo science of CO2 being control knob.]
The political class having an actual means by which they could change the climate, does have the potential of increasing their power- which in the past, has never been good news for the people they are governing.

David the Voter
Reply to  DickF
February 11, 2015 12:36 pm

I had a similar thought Dick. the Law of Unintended Consequences will mete out severe punishment for them being stupid.

bobj62
Reply to  David the Voter
February 11, 2015 1:34 pm

It will mete out severe punishment–to all–for them being stupid (or cocky, or naïve, or imperious…take your pick of adjective).

Truthseeker
Reply to  David the Voter
February 11, 2015 1:39 pm

Unfortunately the extreme punishment will be for all of us, not just these idiots.

D.J. Hawkins
Reply to  David the Voter
February 11, 2015 2:25 pm

If they want to drive their own car into a ravine, fine, but if I’m on the bus I won’t go quietly.

Alan the Brit
Reply to  David the Voter
February 12, 2015 3:20 am

It staggers me that these people are working on the assumption that Humanity has contaminated the environment by its activities, & they want to tamper with the environment to correct the alleged contamination! Barking mad!

Mike Henderson
Reply to  David the Voter
February 12, 2015 4:19 pm

“some of the harmful consequences of human-caused climate change.”=”living.”

george e. smith
Reply to  DickF
February 11, 2015 1:26 pm

Well a good example of the ability of HSSapiens to geo-engineer anything in a rational way, can be seen right now back in Boston, dealing with its second hundred year storm in the last 30 days.
Their solution (actually being implemented) to deal with megatons of snow lying on the ground, and blocking up all the roads, is to MELT IT !!
As in provide at least 80 Calories per gram of latent heat for that task.
For the same amount of additional energy, you can turn the whole lot of it, into “MacDonald’s hot” Coffee.
Just what free clean green renewable non fossil fuel are they actually using for this boondoggle ??
g
PS Dump the snow in the ocean (with barges).

Danny Thomas
Reply to  george e. smith
February 11, 2015 2:28 pm

George E. Smith,
“PS Dump the snow in the ocean (with barges)”. But wouldn’t that be geoengieeringly cooling the oceans. What to do? What to do?.

Janice Moore
Reply to  george e. smith
February 11, 2015 3:24 pm

Danny T.: Oh, what to DO….!! — lol. #(:))

Janice Moore
Reply to  george e. smith
February 11, 2015 3:25 pm

Norah, what would you suggest? 😉

Mike the Morlock
Reply to  george e. smith
February 11, 2015 3:43 pm

“Dump the snow in the ocean” Nah, truck it to California
New England is going to be hit again this week. Just like clockwork. My brother is very tired of shoveling snow. I don’t think he is alone.
michael

Proud Skeptic
Reply to  DickF
February 11, 2015 4:16 pm

I’m with you, buddy…”what could possibly go wrong?”

Louis Hooffstetter
Reply to  DickF
February 11, 2015 6:01 pm

In general, geo-engineering may be a nutty idea, but we should resist the idea that all geo-engineering ideas are nutty. Ideas should evaluated individually. Injecting aerosols into the atmosphere may be a really bad idea, and placing giant mirrors into orbit around the planet is just plain goofy, but fertilizing the oceans has proven to be incredibly effective:
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/376258/pacifics-salmon-are-back-thank-human-ingenuity-robert-zubrin
Within a single generation, Salmon runs of most species increased up to 400%. It doesn’t get any better than that. Carefully thought out, cost effective geo-engineering solutions that really work (like ocean fertilization) should not be lumped together and discarded with the crazy ideas.

DD More
Reply to  Louis Hooffstetter
February 11, 2015 8:04 pm

Or was the northeast Pacific salmon run changed due to the PDO. You know the one found by after studying fisheries in the area, where the water temperature changed relocated the location of the salmon habitat.

george e. smith
Reply to  Louis Hooffstetter
February 11, 2015 8:41 pm

Well presumably, anything that greatly increases ocean bio-mass, even sea weed, is a good thing, because that means that a lot more solar energy becomes bio mass, and joins the ranks of Kevin Trenberth’s travestic “missing heat ” (noun).
So lets hear it for the salmon.

Jimbo
Reply to  Louis Hooffstetter
February 11, 2015 9:46 pm

Louis, “120 tons of iron sulfate into the northeast Pacific to stimulate a phytoplankton bloom which in turn would provide ample food for baby salmon” is locally targeted and is not aimed at changing our climate. Imagine millions of tons of iron sulfate spread out on a wider basis. What would the outcome be? You don’t know and neither do I.
Note to all:
I am not saying Louis has some special interest here but do keep a close eye on anyone proposing these geoengineering schemes – they may have a special interest, ie ready to get paid for schemes they propose and stocks in any companies created.

Jimbo
Reply to  Louis Hooffstetter
February 11, 2015 10:01 pm

DD More, it was the very study of “connections between Alaska salmon production cycles and Pacific climate” that led to the discovery of the PDO!
http://jisao.washington.edu/static/pdo/
I maybe wrong here but the link Louis pointed to re iron sulfate dumping was reported to be illegal.

Illegal Iron Dumping Spawns Huge Algal Bloom Seen from Space
According to The Guardian, George is the former chief executive of Planktos, Inc., known for its previous failed efforts to dump such plankton “food” near the Galapagos and Canary Islands. Since then, The Guardian reports, the Spanish and Ecuadorian governments have barred his vessels from their ports, while the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency warned him that flying a U.S. flag for the Galapagos experiment would violate U.S. laws.
http://www.livescience.com/24025-illegal-iron-dumping-phytoplankton-bloom.html
=============
Rogue Dumping of Iron into Ocean Stirs Controversy
This geoengineered approach to solving climate change is controversial, but even researchers who think it has promise said the Canadian experiment went about it the wrong way.
“It should have been done by a group of neutral scientists,” said Victor Smetacek, a researcher at the Alfred Wegener Institute in Germany who conducted a small-scale ocean-fertilization experiment in 2009. Smetacek added, “The thing is, it’s going to give iron fertilization a bad name…….
The controversy is likely to grow, as the project may have broken two international moratoria on ocean fertilization, the United Nations’ convention on biological diversity and the London convention, which found large-scale experiments in ocean fertilization unjustified. ”
http://www.livescience.com/24117-iron-fertilization-canada-controversy.html

James Allison
Reply to  Louis Hooffstetter
February 11, 2015 10:12 pm

Geoengineering heap plenty big magic if it can grow out baby salmon to adults in just one year – 2012 to 2013. Normal maturity takes 4-5 years. Maybe just maybe there were other factor involved eh.

Jimbo
Reply to  Louis Hooffstetter
February 12, 2015 2:42 am

Fertilizing the oceans with iron sulfate can cause toxic red tides and harmful algal blooms. It can lead to deep-water oxygen depletion and harm food webs. All for the sake of the Salmon (unproven). PDO proven.
GUARDIAN
“World’s biggest geoengineering experiment ‘violates’ UN rules ”
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/oct/15/pacific-iron-fertilisation-geoengineering

Jimbo
Reply to  DickF
February 11, 2015 9:38 pm

On unintended consequences. I know that we are already carrying out ‘goengineering’ on Earth. The difference is that geoengineering proposals to ‘tackle’ ‘global warming’ are deliberate – why add to what is already happening? Two wrongs don’t make a right. I want to see Greenpeace, the EPA and other similar organisations out in force and resisting efforts to pump stuff in the atmosphere or oceans.

Bulletin of Atomic Scientists – 2008
Alan robock
20 reasons why geoengineering may be a bad idea
Carbon dioxide emissions are rising so fast that some scientists are seriously considering putting Earth on life support as a last resort. But is this cure worse than the disease?
Vol. 64, No. 2, p. 14-18, 59 – DOI: 10.2968/064002006
http://www.atmos.washington.edu/academics/classes/2012Q1/111/20Reasons.pdf
===========
Environmental Research Letters – 2009
Of mongooses and mitigation: ecological analogues to geoengineering
Anthropogenic global warming is a growing environmental problem resulting from unintentional human intervention in the global climate system. If employed as a response strategy, geoengineering would represent an additional intentional human intervention in the climate system, with the intent of decreasing net climate impacts. There is a rich and fascinating history of human intervention in environmental systems, with many specific examples from ecology of deliberate human intervention aimed at correcting or decreasing the impact of previous unintentionally created problems. Additional interventions do not always bring the intended results, and in many cases there is evidence that net impacts have increased with the degree of human intervention. ……….We argue that a high degree of system understanding is required for increased intervention to lead to decreased impacts. Given our current level of understanding of the climate system, it is likely that the result of at least some geoengineering efforts would follow previous ecological examples where increased human intervention has led to an overall increase in negative environmental consequences.
http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/4/4/045105

Paul Mackey
Reply to  DickF
February 12, 2015 1:58 am

The UK can’t even control marsh areas like the Somerset levels from flooding, something that they could do for hundreds of years up until they started to enact climate mitagating policies. After the Met office predicted a drier than usual winter last year, they flooded a large area of the Somerset Levels to provide a haven for waterfowl.
Then the rains came and the water had no where to go. They had stopped farmers dredging the rivers because, you know, despite thousands of years of evidence to the contrary starting with Mesoptamia, silt is a hazardoud material and cannot be allowed to be spread on the fields.
The results of this idiodiotic policies were all across the news and the poor folk of Somerset were badly flooded for many months
I dread to think what would happen if this moronic management was scaled up to planetary proportions.

February 11, 2015 9:53 am

I suggest that said so called academic scholars should take time contacting The Geological Society of America

February 11, 2015 9:55 am

This guy’s a professor of psychology and didn’t realize that the notion of geoengineering would scare the hell out far more people than it would calm ?

Janice Moore
Reply to  Bob Armstrong
February 11, 2015 11:34 am

Good point, Mr. Armstrong. On the other hand…
… maybe… he is a professor of psy-ops….
Professor: So, you don’t like the idea of geoengineering, eh? Kind of SCARES you, eh? SO STOP KILLING THE PLANET WITH CARBON POLLUTION!!! Hand over your cars…. hand over your cows…. hand over …… meh, what the heck……. it will be a whole lot easier to control you if you all move into our nice little “villages” where everyone has a job and no one complains (heh).
{No, I, Janice, do not really think this will happen in America, but the like has been done…}
Fortunately, TRUTH will defeat them — every time.

Reply to  Janice Moore
February 11, 2015 12:30 pm

Is it not remarkable this report comes out at the same time the The National Academy of Science (WUWT) wants to get at the trough regarding this stupidity?? Is this a prepared tactic? I wonder if we are going to see more of this “Mad scientist” BS in the next few days and weeks!

Janice Moore
February 11, 2015 9:56 am

LOL — there ARE NO KNOWN “EFFECTS,”
for there is NO evidence ANY “human-induced climate change.”
None.
Thus, it is clear that:
“Geoengineering” is simply:

How to Trick the Gullible into Funding Our Permanently Negative (but for subsidies) ROI Project

Brought to you by: Enviroprofiteers Unlimited, Inc..
“… samples … displayed more open-mindedness toward … evidence propaganda, after learning of geoengineering.”

Adam
Reply to  Janice Moore
February 11, 2015 5:09 pm

Not all geoengineering schemes have negative ROI — ocean fertilization is extremely promising for restoring depleted fisheries.

Janice Moore
Reply to  Adam
February 11, 2015 5:20 pm

Hey, that’s great, Adam.
But, the propaganda above is aimed not at such ventures (given you are correct about ocean fertilization), but at those comparable to the windmill and solar panel schemes currently propped up solely by subsidies (tax and surcharges on customers, mainly).
You do make a good point: there are many great applied science projects (I can’t personally attest to whether ocean fertilization is one of them…).
Janice

noaaprogrammer
Reply to  Adam
February 11, 2015 5:59 pm

Here’s a geoengineering proposal for Panama: Since the Pacific is higher than the Gulf of Mexico, cut a large enough channel below sea level at the right angle to disrupt the course of the Gulf Stream over time so that it no longer sends warm moist air to northwestern Europe.
That ought to cool their heels.

Jimbo
Reply to  Adam
February 11, 2015 10:06 pm

Adam
February 11, 2015 at 5:09 pm
Not all geoengineering schemes have negative ROI — ocean fertilization is extremely promising for restoring depleted fisheries.

Do you have the peer reviewed empirical evidence for this?
I know we are already geoengineering our biosphere via our actions but this is the DELIBERATE manipulation of our biosphere. Are you sure about unintended consequences?

garymount
Reply to  Adam
February 11, 2015 10:17 pm

No evidence yet of a good ROI, or of any good effects at all of ocean fertilization (using iron).

rh
February 11, 2015 10:00 am

In the 1970s there were equally smart people wanting to spread coal dust on the ice caps to help prevent global cooling. Bunch of maroons.

Jimbo
Reply to  rh
February 11, 2015 12:42 pm

rh
February 11, 2015 at 10:00 am
In the 1970s there were equally smart people wanting to spread coal dust on the ice caps to help prevent global cooling. Bunch of maroons.

This is a cautionary tale of why we should NOT act now, or then. Here are some earlier ideas about deliberately covering the Arctic with soot, putting a dam across the Bering Straits to feed warm water into the Arctic and suppression of lightning by seeding. Yet people wonder why some sceptics refuse to listen to their new geo-engineering schemes.

The Pittsburgh Press – 5 April, 1966
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=90gqAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Sk8EAAAAIBAJ&pg=7355%2C2106156
===========
Newsweek – April 28, 1975
Climatologists are pessimistic that political leaders will take any positive action to compensate for the climatic change, or even to allay its effects. They concede that some of the more spectacular solutions proposed, such as melting the Arctic ice cap by covering it with black soot or diverting arctic rivers, might create problems far greater than those they solve. But the scientists see few signs that government leaders anywhere are even prepared to take the simple measures of stockpiling food or of introducing the variables of climatic uncertainty into economic projections of future food supplies. The longer the planners delay, the more difficult will they find it to cope with climatic change once the results become grim reality….
http://www.wmconnolley.org.uk/sci/iceage/newsweek-coolingworld.pdf

Bryan A
Reply to  rh
February 11, 2015 2:27 pm

Perhaps we could utilize all those “Morons” as ship pilots and conduct a Pilot Study regarding sending an armada of ships to the Arctic Ocean during low ice summers that would deploy and maintain floating white Albedo Blankets over the Arctic Ocean Surface during the summer months.

Janice Moore
February 11, 2015 10:02 am

“… large-scale manipulations of Earth’s environment”

are, at this time,
impossible
by anyone
but
God.
The stench of the hubris behind the quoted assertion is enough to choke us all to death, however… .

Winnipeg Boy
Reply to  Janice Moore
February 11, 2015 12:02 pm

Bingo. Hubris.
These people apparently have never been out of the city. Spend a week camping in Canada, you will figure out how small you are. Set foot at the base of a mountain and all ideas that you previously had about moving it are gone.
Come to think of it, if i never got out of the big city, i may begin to think like these people and want to kill everybody too.
We should have the government pay for some re-education camps for the warmists. Somewhere north of 65 d North should do it.

Reply to  Winnipeg Boy
February 11, 2015 12:40 pm

Please winnipeg not in Canada, they would find a reason to destroy the countryside , Not flat enough to build on, to many trees to dangerous people might climb and fall out, the rivers run to fast, the lakes are to deep to swim in etc etc ( My wife is from the peg we live rural she wanted out of the city the minute we had the chance)

Danny Thomas
February 11, 2015 10:05 am

Yeah. This oughta do it:”“What’s important is that people assess information about science based not only on its content but on its cultural meaning or significance,” Novel? Never seen this in practice anywhere?

Latitude
February 11, 2015 10:06 am

From Yale University…and the indoctrination of youth department

February 11, 2015 10:07 am

Why do these type of articles even get on this site?

Janice Moore
Reply to  Salvatore Del Prete
February 11, 2015 10:10 am

Comic relief. #(:))

Reply to  Janice Moore
February 11, 2015 11:26 am

Thank you Janice.
I’m still smiling.

Janice Moore
Reply to  Janice Moore
February 11, 2015 11:35 am

Thanks, Mike! Now, I am too!!
#(:))

Chip Javert
Reply to  Salvatore Del Prete
February 11, 2015 5:01 pm

Well, after these warmest guys wear themselves out calling us stupid neanderthals, censoring skeptics, and ranting about jailing us for our thoughts, it is interesting to see the crisp, clear thinking about exactly how they would solve the non-problem.

Don Perry
Reply to  Salvatore Del Prete
February 11, 2015 7:02 pm

@Salvatore Del Prete
Why do YOU even get on this site? Go back to your own.

mpainter
February 11, 2015 10:13 am

Dear Yale University Law School,
Look up the term “fat chance” and that will help you to understand.

markl
February 11, 2015 10:14 am

Bartholomew and the Oobleck, 1949, Dr. Seuss.

Janice Moore
Reply to  markl
February 11, 2015 10:39 am

Perfect, Mark L.! #(:))
(well, except for the “saying your sorry
makes everything okay again” part …)
I had not heard of that Seuss story before. Here is a condensed youtube version.
— and oobleck is GREEN, too… hm 🙂

{and, btw, that’s the “Kingdom of DiDD” (at first, I thought Dick Durbin had finally declared a realm for himself…}

“… our magic can do anything,”

{said the magicians Enviroprofiteers.}
lololol

Janice Moore
Reply to  Janice Moore
February 11, 2015 10:59 am

King Derwin of Didd should just sit back, relax, and sing along with B. J. Thomas’ sweet little ditty, “Raindrops Keep Fallin’ on My Head:”
“I’m never gonna stop the rain by complainin’… ” (youtube video)

Hey!! I just realized something! THAT SONG IS THE REASON FOR ALL THIS GEOENGINEERING JUNK! An Enviroprofiteer, lurking outside the bathroom window of a typical AGW Cult Member, heard him singing in the shower, “… I did me some talkin’ to the Sun {yes ah did}…. told him I didn’t like the way he got things done {you listenin’ to me, Sunny boy, hhahahah (choke, gag, sputter}… hahahh}… .”
Enviroprofiteer (ev1l leer): That’s it! We’ll tell them that we can manipulate the Earth’s environment (the Sun is a bridge too far…) …. and sell lots of our junk! We’re saved!!
***************************************
Take heart, all warriors for genuine science, the last word goes to
Truth: “The {greens} they send to meet me won’t defeat me… .”
#(:))
Truth wins.
In the end, truth wins.
Every time.

Bruce Cobb
February 11, 2015 10:21 am

I’m sure they got the result they wanted. Did they happen to mention the multi-$billion price tag on all that nonsense?

George Tetley
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
February 11, 2015 11:43 am

ERROR< one thousand trillion was a base figure

RockyRoad
Reply to  George Tetley
February 12, 2015 6:53 am

The world is currently just over $700 Trillion in debt–so what’s another thousand?
Oh. My. Gosh.

Rud Istvan
February 11, 2015 10:21 am

The irony of it all. The National Research Counsel just released (this week) two separate and very negative papers on climate geoengineering. One author even called the ideas “barking mad”. Like the Yale psych prof.

cnxtim
February 11, 2015 10:21 am

Magnifying the madness…

Janice Moore
February 11, 2015 10:21 am

In 1989, the false science was: CHOLESTEROL (so, buy our stuff and you will not d1e).
THEN
TV propaganda (youtube video)

NOW
“… an influential federal panel — the Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committee — scrapped longstanding guidelines about avoiding high-cholesterol food. In the draft, cholesterol … is no longer listed as a ‘nutrient of concern.'”
{Source: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/02/10/new-dietary-cholesterol-advice/23174871/}
***************************************
NOW
In 2015, the false science is: HUMAN-CAUSED CLIMATE CHANGE (so, buy our stuff and you will not d1e).
THEN (heh, heh, heh)
In 2016, the public wasn’t buying the geoengineering line anymore. “Hm,” P. S. Yudo, Scientist with NAS, scratched his head, “what will we tell them now?”
“Well, you’d better think of something damn quick,” bellowed Enviroprofiteer CEO V. I. Lain, “or your ‘consulting fee’ is toast!”

TRM
Reply to  Janice Moore
February 11, 2015 10:43 am

Check out Dr Dzugan’s research into cholesterol. He has a 80+% success rate of getting people back into the reference range by adjusting their hormone levels. Even those who don’t get back into the range improve dramatically.
His idea is that cholesterol is used by the body to build steroidal hormones. If your body loses the ability to convert it detects low hormones and produces more and more cholesterol. Top up the hormone levels and cholesterol drops to normal range.

Janice Moore
Reply to  TRM
February 11, 2015 11:03 am

Arrrgh. I just KNEW I shouldn’t have used cholesterol…. . I hope you get my point.
Now, I’m going to go have some eggs and some toast with a TON of butter on it… and pull that steak out of the freezer …. .

dennisambler
Reply to  TRM
February 12, 2015 3:44 am
TRM
Reply to  TRM
February 12, 2015 5:07 pm

Janice I get your point and so does Dr Dzugan. His whole point is that dietary cholesterol is only 20% with the body producing the rest as it sees the need (lack of steroidal hormones).

Alx
February 11, 2015 10:27 am

One group was provided a set of symptoms and a cure presented as being a magic bullet with no impact to their life style. The other group were provided symptoms and a cure which involved changing their way and quality of life.
Let me see now, which group could possibly be more polarized on AGW?
Is Yale graduating a generation of idiots? If they are I am going to guess because the professors are idiots.

skorrent1
Reply to  Alx
February 11, 2015 12:07 pm

Bingo!!

pbft
February 11, 2015 10:27 am

Taking the long view, I hope we can get past the current craziness and really look at geoengineering (or whatever name makes sense). I’m pretty skeptical about CAGW, but CNIA (Catastrophic Natural Ice Age) seems like a near certainty at some point. I hope we can develop and master the techniques to manage earth’s thermostat by then.

rgbatduke
February 11, 2015 10:29 am

Hey, super, tweaking the various knobs and dials of a highly nonlinear multivariate chaotic system that we don’t understand, cannot computationally predict, and that clearly is at least bistable if not openly multistable. Sort of like trying to steer an out of control car by tightening and loosening the nuts holding on the tires while looking in the rear-view mirror (since one cannot see the road out front).
What could go wrong?

Billy Liar
Reply to  rgbatduke
February 11, 2015 10:39 am

Murphy’s Law – everything will!

Mike Henderson
Reply to  Billy Liar
February 12, 2015 5:33 pm

Third Corollary to Murphy’s Law: If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong.
Seventh Corollary to Murphy’s Law: Every solution breeds new problems.
Ninth Corollary to Murphy’s Law: Nature always sides with the hidden flaw.
MURPHY’S LAW
and other reasons why things go wrong!
Arthur Bloch

Mike
Reply to  rgbatduke
February 11, 2015 10:49 am

Nice analogy.
May I extend it: the car we presume to be out of control by looking through broken and melted rear window. We presume it to be out of control because we have been playing the stereo too loudly and that if we manage to turn down the volume, we are sure to avoid tipping off the road into the gully.

Mike
Reply to  rgbatduke
February 11, 2015 10:59 am

We are sure that it’s all about the volume know since we have done a multivariate regression using everything we can think of and there is positive correlation with volume.
We have regressed volume against the distorted and noisy estimations of the position of the vehicle made through rear window and we are unaware the linear regression is valid in this situation and ignore the effects of regression dilution.
Since noise pollution has already been declared a danger to human health by the EPA, we know this must be the cause anyway.
We don’t read Judith Curry’s site and know nothing about regression issues. 😉
http://judithcurry.com/2015/02/06/on-determination-of-tropical-feedbacks

george e. smith
Reply to  rgbatduke
February 11, 2015 8:49 pm

Well so what’s YOUR problem with a hook and ladder truck with one driver at each end ?
izz Your establishment buying into the Google-Apple self driving machinery ??
I think the algorithm is ;you twiddle the knobs until you hear a loud bang, and that tells you that you have found a combination that works.
G

RockyRoad
Reply to  rgbatduke
February 12, 2015 6:57 am

As an engineer, I can state emphatically that building anything based on a clueless design drawn from false assumptions with NOT turn out well.
Every time.
You might as well build in reciprocal space.

February 11, 2015 10:32 am

Why not set off all the world’s nukes to bring on a “nuclear winter”?
Don’t like nukes?
Then send up a team to strap some rockets onto an asteroid and steer it into the Earth. (Is Bruce Willis busy?)
What could go wrong?

TRM
February 11, 2015 10:33 am

And yet nothing about the real danger posed by naturally occurring climate change AKA ice age. Our little interglacial ends and it gets colder, drier and we all move to the equator or tough it out for the next ninety thousand years.
So open up the Panama-South America channel that will allow oceans to flow like they did 3 million years ago. That will melt a lot of the arctic permanently but I think Canada, Russia and Northern Europe would like it.

Janice Moore
Reply to  TRM
February 11, 2015 11:14 am

Say…. TRM, your rational (if impractical) Panama channel idea makes a good point…
but, (whisper — don’t… say… that… too … loudly…. — look right… look left)…
… don’t give the Enviro-stal1inists any ideas…
…. B. Hussein Obama SAID he’d give all of us Americans “shovel-ready jobs” …
😉 🙁

Bloke down the pub
February 11, 2015 10:34 am

As one of the major gripes about cagw policy is the monumental amount of money wasted on it, I doubt very much that finding even deeper holes to throw money into will improve the situation.

Duster
February 11, 2015 10:36 am

Apparently the idea of “geo-engineering” on a global scale worries even some AGW faithful. Raymond T Pierrehumbert seems to be very worried about the idea for instance.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/02/11/giving_climate_tech_to_obama_would_be_like_giving_a_loaded_gun_to_a_child_scientist/

Alan Robertson
Reply to  Duster
February 11, 2015 10:50 am

If Pierrehumbert doesn’t like the idea, then could the authors of this study possibly hope for a more ringing endorsement?

george e. smith
Reply to  Duster
February 11, 2015 8:58 pm

Well Peter Humbug is always doing geo engineering on is X-box plus. He tried taking all of the H2O out of the atmosphere (every last molecule) to eliminate the water vapor positive feedback effect.
Trouble was, he got all of it back in just three months. So much for his success at geo-engineering, and a big disappointment for fans of positive feedback.
g

SuffolkBoy
February 11, 2015 10:47 am

O/T Dana Nuccitelli has raised the temperature again by some prestidigitation on the GISS GLOTI/LOTI adjustments. http://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2015/feb/11/fiddling-with-global-warming-conspiracies-while-rome-burns

Kevin Kilty
February 11, 2015 10:51 am

Reduce partisanship because we can all ride the gravy train? Uh huh.

Jerry Henson
February 11, 2015 10:55 am

This is the kind of thinking that gave Australia the rabbit and the cane toad.

Janice Moore
Reply to  Jerry Henson
February 11, 2015 11:17 am

+1

Neil
Reply to  Janice Moore
February 11, 2015 11:32 am

Whilst true, I refer you to calicivirus for the truly scary.
Rabbit haemorrhagic disease, also known as calicivirus, was trialed in Australia to eliminate the rabbit population. Calicivirus can only infect rabbits; there is no interspecies transmission or carrier.
The trial was conducted on Wardang Island, some 2.4 miles off the coast of South Australia in Spencer Gulf. The island was already loaded with rabbits that were cut off from the mainland, and there was no known way for any of these rabbits to cross the water.
In 1991, the virus was introduced to the island. By 1995 it had spread to the mainland, killing 10 million rabbits within 8 weeks of it’s arrival. Those that were left developed immunity.
So, we have an isolated island with a virus that can only be transmitted within a single species; said species can’t swim; certainly not the two miles. Yet, even that tightly controlled experiment in a very controlled area that was heavily policed by AQIS went horribly awry.
Geoengineering? No thanks.

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