Guest Opinion: Dr. Tim Ball
Pope Francis advocates the global warming agenda of the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), with the help of the Obama White House. Apparently, he doesn’t know their ultimate objective of reducing and controlling population generally contradicts Catholic doctrine. The irony is that as a Jesuit, the ideological church police, he should know, but apparently, his personal, political and economic perspective trumps it. He also doesn’t appear to know that population control comes naturally with industrial and economic development.
Coercion of the Pope to the global warming message likely began with John Kerry’s visit to the Vatican, ostensibly to discuss Middle East issues. The Boston Globe researched Kerry during his Presidential run and discovered that,
The Kerry family was traced back to a small town in the Austrian empire, now part of the Czech Republic. There, the paper discovered that before immigrating to America, the Kerrys changed their name from Kohn and converted from Judaism to Catholicism.
His Catholicism caused him much political trouble during his presidential campaign. Now the Obama administration has taken the next step, which is standard in the entire development of the IPCC climate campaign, by involving the top bureaucrat of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), Gina McCarthy.
EPA Administrator Gina McCarthy told reporters that her aim in visiting was to show the Vatican how aligned President Barack Obama and Francis are on climate change. She said she wanted to stress that global warming isn’t just an environmental issue, but a public health threat, and yet also a chance for economic opportunity.
The last comment parallels the political objective identified by Canadian Environment Minister Christine Stewart, who said,
“No matter if the science of global warming is all phony… climate change provides the greatest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world.”
These objectives appeal to a man familiar with the slums and poverty of Argentina. The problem is the more likely objective is to eliminate the people in them. Consider Prince Philip’s quote;
I just wonder what it would be like to be reincarnated in an animal whose species had been so reduced in numbers than it was in danger of extinction. What would be its feelings toward the human species whose population explosion had denied it somewhere to exist… I must confess that I am tempted to ask for reincarnation as a particularly deadly virus.
I recommend the list begin with monarchs.
Religious and political analogies abound between environmentalism and its subset, global warming. Former Czech Republic President, Vaclav Klaus, who gave the keynote address at the first Heartland Climate Conference in New York, warned about the growing trend.
Nevertheless, there is another threat on the horizon. I see this threat in environmentalism, which is becoming a new dominant ideology, if not a religion. Its main weapon is raising the alarm and predicting the human life endangering climate change based on man-made global warming.
Figure 1 shows how, as usual, cartoonists see the trend ahead of most and are able to comment without fear, until recently.
Figure 1
I wrote about similar parallels between religion and global warming by comparing Al Gore to the Pardoner, in Chaucer’s (c.1342 – 1400) The Canterbury Tales. Gore pushed carbon credits like The Pardoner pushed indulgences or pardons, hence his name. Here is Paul Johnson’s description of the Pardoner.
“The Pardoner, a seller of indulgences, is a complete and shameless rogue; but Chaucer, not content with exposing his impudence, shows how good he was at his job and how powerfully he preached against sinfulness. The Pardoner had also been taught to use the figure of death to scare his hearers.”
The opening lines of the Pardoner’s Tale provide the parallel with the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) message.
“My lords, he said, in churches where I preach
I cultivate a haughty kind of speech
And wring it out as roundly as a bell;
I’ve got it all by heart, detail I tell.
I have a text, it always is the same
And always has been since I learned the game,
Old as the hills and fresher than the grass,
Radix malorum est cupiditas.”
(“greed is the root of evils”)
The Club of Rome (COR) took the Malthusian idea that world population would outgrow food resources and expanded it to all resources. They sponsored the 1972 book Limits To Growth, which was a forerunner to the IPCC Reports approach. It used simple linear trends for population and resources to project catastrophic projections. They used computer models to create the illusion of scientific accuracy.
The argument was twofold. Pressure on resources was occurring simply by natural rates of population increase, and developed nations were using the resources at an accelerated rate. The goal was also twofold. Reduce population overall and reduce industrialization that caused the increased demand on resources.
First and foremost of the Club of Rome Neo-Malthusians was Paul Ehrlich, whose 1968 book, The Population Bomb, became the bible for environmentalists. It also convinced most people, even though virtually all its predictions were wrong, that the world was overpopulated. Ehrlich also co-authored a book, Ecoscience: Population, Resources, Environment, with the person, John Holdren, who continues the fight, but from a position of power as Obama’s Science Czar. It is entirely likely that he is pushing Obama, Kerry and the EPA among others on the climate agenda.
What were some of the views on population Holdren set out in the book?
“• Women could be forced to abort their pregnancies, whether they wanted to or not;
• The population at large could be sterilized by infertility drugs intentionally put into the nation’s drinking water or in food;
• Single mothers and teen mothers should have their babies seized from them against their will and given away to other couples to raise;
• People who “contribute to social deterioration” (i.e. undesirables) “can be required by law to exercise reproductive responsibility” — in other words, be compelled to have abortions or be sterilized.
• A transnational “Planetary Regime” should assume control of the global economy and also dictate the most intimate details of Americans’ lives — using an armed international police force.”
Most Americans would oppose such measures, so Holdren had a solution to bypass them, using the shield of the Constitution.
Indeed, it has been concluded that compulsory population-control laws, even including laws requiring compulsory abortion, could be sustained under the existing Constitution if the population crisis became sufficiently severe to endanger the society.
Who concluded that such laws “could be sustained”? The answer is Holdren and his cohorts. But they also control the justification for action, because Holdren decides when “the population crisis became sufficiently severe to endanger society”.
Holdren disavowed all these beliefs at his Senate confirmation hearings and in additional press releases, which said in part,
“This material is from a three-decade-old, three-author college textbook. Dr. Holdren addressed this issue during his confirmation when he said he does not believe that determining optimal population is a proper role of government. Dr. Holdren is not and never has been an advocate for policies of forced sterilization.”
Notice that Holdren doesn’t disavow his view on overpopulation. He only says, government shouldn’t control it, especially with forced sterilization. Clearly, he still thinks overpopulation is a problem.
In a larger sense, it doesn’t matter because major policy positions and global conferences continue with incorrect claims about overpopulation. It is central to the Principles of Agenda 21 set out in, what else, a Synthesis Report. It triggered the UN international population conference in Cairo in November 1994, with Vice President Al Gore leading the US delegation. One interesting comment about the Cairo conference, that shows some things haven’t changed, was this cryptic note.
Despite dire predictions that the conference would be the focus of attack by Islamic militants, there were no violent incidents.
Little else has changed either. Proponents of the IPCC and their anthropogenic global warming (AGW) hypothesis continue their crusade (pun intended) by inveigling the support of authority figures, like the Pope and by inference, associated groups. These are classic, appeals to authority, like Lord May’s use of the Royal Society to persuade other science societies to support the AGW cause.
Most members of the Societies didn’t know what their leaders were doing and many demanded retraction or at least restatement. Many of the parishioners are rebelling against religious involvement. A few years ago, members of the Catholic Church of Scotland, who were annoyed that their bishop had directed priests to preach against global warming, approached me. Their view was biblical,
“Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”
The Pope apparently did not think through his commitment to the IPCC claims as expounded by the Obama White House. Likely, he was easily persuaded, because so much of the false claims fit his socialist ideology. He tried to walk back his commitment by jokingly suggesting he was not promoting population control. He said,
“Some think, excuse me if I use the word, that in order to be good Catholics, we have to be like rabbits…but no,”
He later backtracked on this comment.
Wednesday, he seemed to pull back from that statement. Speaking of his recent trip to the Philippines, where he presided over the largest mass in history, he said “it gives consolation and hope to see so many numerous families who receive children as a real gift of God. They know that every child is a benediction.”
He called “simplistic” the belief that large families were the cause of poverty, blaming it instead on an unjust economic system. “We can all say that the principal cause of poverty is an economic system that has removed the person from the center, and put the god of money there instead.”
This comment appears to show further lack of understanding, created by an idée fixe.
Ironically, both the IPCC and the Pope fail to recognize the proven dynamics of the Demographic Transition. This theory basically shows that population decreases naturally when industrial economic development is allowed. The key is it must be allowed without interference from government or the church as this author explains.
As with all models, the demographic transition model has its problems. The model does not provide “guidelines” as to how long it takes a country to get from Stage I to III. Western European countries took centuries though some rapidly developing countries like the Economic Tigers are transforming in mere decades. The model also does not predict that all countries will reach Stage III and have stable low birth and death rates. There are factors such as religion that keep some countries’ birth rate from dropping.
The good news is, most Catholics are not listening. In Catholic countries, the population rate has declined considerably. Reportedly, the best measure is the Total Fertility Rate (TFR), the expected number of children born per woman in her child-bearing years.
Taken globally, the total fertility rate at replacement is 2.33 children per woman. At this rate, global population growth would tend towards zero.
Fertility rates for four predominantly catholic countries are;
Poland – 1.41
Hungary – 1.41
Italy – 1.48
France – 1.98
But the Pope doesn’t need to worry; Italy, France, and other European nations are offsetting the decline with Muslim immigrants with higher TFRs.
Apparently, the Pope could learn from the French philosopher Montesquieu. He reportedly said, whenever he was tempted to talk about something on which he had little knowledge, he remembered his personal guideline. Never talk to other men about his wife, because they might be more knowledgeable on the subject than he was. Maybe the problem for perspective is that the Pope doesn’t have a wife.
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When it comes to major issues like Global Warming you simply have to ask yourself this question.
Am I happy here is this group, standing shoulder to shoulder with The Pope, Al Gore, Barak Obama and Tony Blair?
Charles,
Your shoulder-to-shoulder listing is incomplete. A photo collage would be worth 10,000 words. Start with this ex-cartoonist, John Cook:
http://jonova.s3.amazonaws.com/debunk/skepticalscience/1_herrcook-sml.gif
And a credentialed doctor.
I like the 1968 production better but… this one fits the photo
michael
No he’s not! He may well have a Ph D in physics, but he gave that up to draw cartoons.
Patrick,
Thank you. Even if Cook was an M.D., it would just be another example of the interminable logical fallacies that constitute the biggest part by far of that alarmist’s argument.
How did Warren’s post change from physicist to doctor since yesterday? (Could very well be I was not wearing my glasses…but I am sure it read physicist).
You’d think that the pope would know that not hitting back, turning the other cheek sort of one of the tenets of Christianity, but.. this one thinks otherwise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFXn5QL432s#t=275. Something is very wrong with this pope.
@davidmhoffer. BS right back at you. I said multiple places that credentials matter – a lot – if you want reliable critique of a scientific topic. And MofB has none.
warrenlb says:
I said multiple places that credentials matter – a lot…
Your problem is that you cherry-pick whatever you want, and reject anything that contradicts you.
There is no one who has better credentials than M.I.T.’s head of atmospheric studies: Climatologist Richard Lindzen.
I and most here agree with Lindzen’s view. But he would laugh you out of the room for some of your nonsense, like your stated True Belief that man-made global warming is now rising at the rate of 3º every 100 years. Where do you get your misinformation?? More to the point: why would you believe such obvious BS?
That claim is so preposterous that you are fast becoming a laughingstock. There has been no global warming for almost twenty years now. That is one-fifth of your 100 years. The planet will have to just about catch fire, and pretty quick, if you’re anything close to being right.
But I don’t think you are. That would be a first.
db, The 3 degrees is not on this post. Do you remember where? F or C?
If warren is reading — What do you know about this rate? Where did your number come from?
Thanks, to both — I’m just trying to keep up.
Warren posted that figure (3 degrees, did not state weather C or F), I can only assume it was based on the opinions of credentialed expert scienetists that Warren keeps on mentioning, and I cannot recall what thread that was in. He did not provide a link as I recall. So, I would suggest Warren’s claim is a load of BS!
warrenlb February 1, 2015 at 1:49 pm
@davidmhoffer. BS right back at you. I said multiple places that credentials matter
Yup, you’re big on the appeal to authority thing, agreed. But upthread, you also said:
We reject the Science, precisely because we don’t like 1, 2, or 3, rather than disagreeing with the science itself?
Which is why I called out your hypocrisy. You can’t have it both ways. Well, I guess you can if you are OK with being a blatant hypocrite.
Oh, you didn’t get that ‘we’ is you?
warrenlb February 1, 2015 at 8:53 pm
Oh, you didn’t get that ‘we’ is you?
Wow. Yeah, I got it. You p*ssed all over “me” for not directly discussing the science, and in another thread you p*ssed all over “me” for directly discussing the science.
How stupid do you think “we” are?
Can you list the [credentials] of Gore, Flannery, Pachoury et al? Flannery, the climate change adviser to the Australian ALP/Green govn’t, his first “credential” was English Lit!
@David Ball. So the models are the ‘exaggeration’ you alluded to?
@warrenlb, here ya go:
http://thefederalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Climate-Model-Comparison.png
Seen this chart. Doesnt identify emission scenarios, or source. Here’s the complete story:
http://skepticalscience.com/contary-to-contrarians-ipcc-temp-projections-accurate.html
Too funny! Not only have you been called out on you foolish rants, you link to Sks?
Whenever you see a models to actuals comparison where all the data series start off exactly at zero, you can be sure someone is playing games with the anomaly baseline. Which there is no reason to do because the standard baseline for CMIP5 is 1986-2005. Here it is done properly, with Spencer’s plot laid over the top for comparison:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-wGX4QFvJi34/VM-Qy5dKHZI/AAAAAAAAAUc/4ga4Xt01E_s/s1600/Climate-Model-Comparison%2BSpencer.png
Warrenlb, Please comment on Bruce’s plots from the CMIP5. Are the models wrong or are the observations wrong. This really is a simple question that even you can answer in a couple of words. Clearly they’re not both right.
I’ve seen this chart before. I remember that It omits several critical modeling runs which just happen to represent the emission scenarios most closely aligned with the actual emissions of the time period. And for those missing modeling runs, the actuals are in line with the modeling,
In other word, this chart is an intentional fraud.
warrenlb;
And for those missing modeling runs, the actuals are in line with the modeling,
Really? Then why did the IPCC substitute “expert judgment” for model projections in AR5? If the models were “in line” with actuals, you’d think they would have proudly proclaimed their accuracy. Instead they said, hey never mind the models, here’s our “expert judgment” instead.
If I was Pope I would be quite a lot suspicious of politicians who flew across the world to get me to sign up as a cheerleader for a policy that carried little weight with their domestic electorate.
Given their track record, having the RC church come out for controlling climate change almost guarantees that the current model is wrong. If the Pope had only claimed infallibility you could have been dead certain it was wrong. Oh, well, the evidence still says that it is. There’s still a possibility he will take a harder line, I guess.
Dr. Ball,
What does John Kerry’s heritage have to do with his wrong-headedness about climate change? Your reference to a possible Jewish ancestry seems pointless at best. It has no relationship to the rest of your essay. It doesn’t have the same relevance as the association between his and the Pope’s shared Catholicism. So why include it?
A bit like ‘we live in a huge mainframe’.
————–
42?
What gives with the Royal family? Prince Philip wants to come back as an endangered species and Charlie Boy said he wanted to be a tampon.
Nicely researched post Dr Ball.
Actually, Catholic doctrine doesn’t forbid population control – it just forbids the current techniques which are being used. It is quite happy with ‘abstinence’. You may disagree on whether it SHOULD forbid the current techniques – but it’s those that are the issue…
Pope Francis DOES have a major problem with something even more fundamental, however. Recently he responded to the shootings of cartoonists in France by suggesting that people should stop insulting religions so much.
“If you insult my mother..”, he commented, “..expect to see a fist..”.
Someone should have told him that EVERY basic Christianity sect, from Catholics, through Greek Orthodox to Quakers, all agree that Jesus’ teaching on violence was to eschew it and turn the other cheek. It’s really Christianity 101…
Dodgy Geezer:
Yes, except… There is a BIG difference between a fist fight and multiple rounds from an AK-47. As in one is rarely fatal, the other rarely not. I’m not Catholic, but I have a huge problem with that statement by this Pope. Verbal insults and petty violence, such as a slap, are to be met with pity, not violence. That’s what the “Other Cheek” in Matthew refers to. Deadly violence is another issue altogether, which Luke 22 deals with in “…And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.”
In other words, the terrorists should (according to Christian ethics) have felt pity for the Charlie cartoonists and prayed for them, etc. But when they chose to attack with deadly force in the form of assault rifles, the cartoonists would have been within their rights (again according to Christian ethics) to have met them with an M-60.
It appears to me that this Pope has more affinity to politics than the Gospel. Not a particularly new thing in the history of the CC, but somewhat annoying in this day and age.
Regards,
How many people did Jesus or Buddha order put to death? Can the Catholic Church make the same claim? Isn’t the history of the Catholic Church more like Mohammed and Islam, sentencing enemies to death?
ferdberple
When? 500 years ago? Hasn’t been much “persecution of witches” since the 1600’s, has there? inquisition was stopped, wasn’t it?
But Islamic terrorists have killed some 104,000 people in 24,000 separate acts of terrorism and violence since 2001. Islam began conquering, killing, enslaving, and taxing non-believers in 680. And has not stopped since.
saw a story online about IIASA ((International Institute for Applied Systems Analysis) World Population Program Director Wolfgang Lutz giving a presentation entitled “World population trends and adaptive capacity to climate change” at the Closing Ceremony of the Southern African Young Scientists Summer Program that took place in South Africa on 30 January 2015. Raya Muttarak, researcher at IIASA’s World Population Program, was said to be co-supervising two students under the theme “Demographic differential vulnerability to environmental change and climate variability in sub-Saharan Africa”….
http://www.iiasa.ac.at/web/home/research/researchPrograms/WorldPopulation/Meetings/150130-SA_YSSP_2015.html
so i looked up IIASA, whose website is full of CAGW articles plus links to Population stories :
Wikipedia: IIASA
When the Cold War ended, IIASA’s sponsoring countries could have said “mission accomplished” and disbanded the Institute…
IIASA had shown the scientific benefits of bringing together different nationalities and disciplines to work toward common goals. Indeed, this approach has been widely imitated, for example, in the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change and the International Geosphere-Biosphere Programme…
So instead of closing in the 1990s the Institute broadened its mandate from the East and West to a truly global focus. Today IIASA brings together a wide range of scientific skills to provide science-based insights into critical policy issues in international and national debates on global change…
In 2010, IIASA launched a new strategic plan for the next ten years, which focuses on three general problem areas: Energy & Climate Change, Food & Water, and Poverty & Equity…
Every year approximately 200 researchers from over 35 countries research at IIASA…
Ten IIASA scientists who co-authored the IPCC Fourth Assessment Report shared in the 2007 Nobel Peace Prize…
IIASA researchers are major contributors to Working Groups II and III of the IPCC Fifth Assessment Report…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Institute_for_Applied_Systems_Analysis
looks like IIASA got right into it once the USSR collapsed:
PDF: 17 pages: 1989: IIASA: Options: Energy-Eclogy: the critical link
IlASA is an international research institution, which draws on the scientific and financial resources of member organizations in 16 countries to address problems of global significance.
It has four established research Programs, continually updated to target on emerging issues in areas of major international concern.
* Environment
* Technology, Economy, and Society
* System and Decision Sciences
*Population
The link between energy and ecology – which is at the root of global climate change, acid rain, forest dieback, and several other major environmental problems and which is forcing a complete rethinking of our approach to technological, economic, and social development – has emerged as one of the most pressing international issues on both research and policy agendas…
page 11: Interview with Nathan Keyfitz
Professor Nathan Keyfitz, Leader of IIASA’s Population Program, is a world expert on population
issues. He joined IlASA in 1983 from Harvard University, USA, where he is Andelot Professor of Sociology Emeritus, and from Ohio State University, where he is Lazarus Professor of Social Demography Emeritus…
Q.. . Many economists argue that population control is not so important. Why do you think they’re wrong?
A.. . Essentially, this is the result of a narrow disciplinary perspective that treats economics in isolation from its real-world setting. It’s a relatively recent phenomenon…
http://www.iiasa.ac.at/web/home/resources/publications/IIASAMagazineOptions/opt89-2jun.pdf
First doctors must have license. Climate scientists do not. Doctors who preform surgery must have their M&M documented Climate scientist do not.
need I go on . The comparison is flawed.
michael
Ah, the old “I vass in Argentina durinck zer Var! I vass a ski inztruktor on zer Pampas!” defense, eh?
Just ignore the scar on the medial aspect of the left upper arm where the Blutgruppe tattoo used to be.
It appears the Church is already on that one:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2049647/BBC-documentary-exposes-50-year-scandal-baby-trafficking-Catholic-church-Spain.html
The Catholic Church has a precise knack for jumping in on the wrong side of scientific issues. Religion and science have nothing in common and do not speak about the same dimensions.
Care to give any other examples apart from the usually misunderstood case of Galileo? You’ll struggle. But myths are there to keep you happy in your own opinions.
The only struggle is to find an example where the Church has proven correct and science wrong.
And this in a world where scientific theories are routinely proven wrong as measuring equipment improves. Heavy objects fall faster was a fine theory, until someone thought to measure if it was true.
ferdberple, the simplest explanation for the universe was that it had no beginning and thus no prime cause was required. Occam’s razor led to the belief in the steady-state universe.
The Catholic Church insisted that the universe was created in light.
I’m no Catholic but it surprises me that anyone thinks that any organisation is 100% wrong on everything over two millennia. There seems to be some prejudice that needs to be self-examined.
MCourtney says, “ferdberple, the simplest explanation for the universe was that it had no beginning and thus no prime cause was required. Occam’s razor led to the belief in the steady-state universe.
The Catholic Church insisted that the universe was created in light.”
1. Ex Nihilo. Technically, the Roman Church taught that the universe was created “ex nihilo.” That is, as you know, “out of nothing.” The phrase does not originate in the Latin Vulgate, but comes from theological writings, according to Wik. However, the Hebrew actually says, “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. And the earth was [/became] without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep.”
2. The Big Bang. The difference is actually substantial. And of course, we know that the Priest, George LeMaiter developed the big bang, in which nothing existed and nothing exploded and now we have everything. Shorthand version, for larks.
3. Steady state. Steady state, Gap theory, young earth, spiritualized and allegorized interpretations of the original words are all views people hold when reading the Hebrew passage. I think it is blindingly obvious that the phrase “and the earth became without form and void,” or “was vanity and emptiness” (tohu ve bohu) reflects the fact that there has been a cataclysmic event. It is not the way it was created, nor was it a necessary step, nor in the character of Yahweh to need “waste and emptiness”.
4. Gap theory. You can look at a verse here that says that He did not create it “in vain” (tohu תֹּהוּ) or to be “empty.” Isaiah 45:18. Identical language when set next to Genesis 1.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Isa&c=45&v=18&t=NKJV#s=t_conc_724018
It is all of unknown age and extent. Thank you very much for your attention if any one got this far.
The environmental green pogrom on poor, uneducated, defenceless people of colour is well underway:
Ten Indian women die and dozens critical after mass sterilisation
Dozens of women fall seriously ill after receiving state sterilisation to control growing population
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/11222316/Eight-Indian-women-die-and-dozens-critical-after-mass-sterilisation.html
~ ~ ~
“With officials and doctors paid a bonus for every operation, poor and little-educated men and women in rural areas are routinely rounded up and sterilised without having a chance to object.
Yet a working paper published by the UK’s Department for International Development in 2010 cited the need to fight climate change as one of the key reasons for pressing ahead with such programmes.
The document argued that reducing population numbers would cut greenhouse gases …”
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/apr/15/uk-aid-forced-sterilisation-india
~ ~ ~
The church is welcome to it’s new, green friends:
http://www.thelocal.de/20141112/greens-say-sorry-for-past-paedophilia-ties
Isn’t this the moment when Jesus storms into the church and turns over the tables?
Or Moses, on coming down the mountain, sees the worshiping of the golden calf?
“What would Forrest Gump do?”
http://cdn.hitfix.com/photos/5632692/ForrestGumpTomHanksLSParamount_article_story_large.jpg
Dr Ball,
I respect you a great deal. I am also a great fan of yours and A Watts et al.
I see that you quoted a great number of people but none of your quotes were attributed to the Pope regarding climate change. I actually read what he said. I will give you an opportunity to walk back your somewhat nasty and inappropriate ad hominem particularly your last sentence.
I expect a pontiff to encourage proper custodianship of this planet. I expect the a pontiff to consult with the best scientists on how to do so. The problem isn’t what the pope said, which I think is well and proper. The problem is that the scientists who are advising him are not actually scientists nor are they advising science.
This has been the greatest part of my criticism of the AGW movement. The Science has been corrupted at its roots. You must not hold a religious figure to account for him quoting many scientists who are recognized. He is just referring to scientific experts. The scientists are the people who need chastisement for leading those less knowledgeable astray. It is the scientists who do not practice science who are at fault.
I think you are frustrated and you lashed out at the wrong person and people. Many good catholics are fantastic scientists, like Mendel, the father of genetics, Lemaitre, the father of the big bang, Copernicus, the predecessor of Galileo who first published the heliocentric Cosmos model etc etc.
You should step back, take a breath, and reconsider the facts.
1) What exactly did Pope Francis say about climate science that is so earth shattering?
2) What did the media and activists say that he said?
You will only serve to alienate yourself by wrongly misdirecting criticism to a man who didn’t really say anything that bad. Also your criticism wasn’t confined to what the pope said about climate. You went on a bit of a screed about catholicism in general. That was just unfortunate and a bit mean.
Pope Francis on climate change: Man has ‘slapped nature in the face’
ABOARD THE PAPAL PLANE — Pope Francis said Thursday he is convinced that global warming is “mostly” man-made and that he hopes his upcoming encyclical on the environment…
http://www.dailynews.com/environment-and-nature/20150115/pope-francis-on-climate-change-man-has-slapped-nature-in-the-face
Pure global warming climate change warmist pap from the Pope.
No Bob he did not say that. You, as well as many others are both being critical while misquoting him.
You said that he said that global warming is “mostly”…
He actually said that “might be mostly” Why did you leave out the “might be” part? He said “might be” because he doesn’t know for sure And that is the truth He doesn’t know.
It is a lie to exclude things he said, just as it a lie to say things he didn’t say. So get the quote correct first.. It os pretty weak that you first misquote him, then criticize him based on you false quote. Facts please.
Paul if he did not say that, why was this article I directly copied in the dailynews? I’m sorry, I should put quotes around that. My only comment was the last sentence. If the Pope really didn’t say that, why are those quotes all over the internet? Are you sure he didn’t say that?
Take a look: http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AwrBT.I65M9UUFoAvsFXNyoA?p=Pope+%22slapped+nature+in+the+face%22&n=10&ei=UTF-8&va_vt=any&vo_vt=any&ve_vt=any&vp_vt=any&vst=0&vf=all&vm=i&fl=0&fr=altavista&xargs=0&b=11&xa=Iyp2Nqy8mC0eBGpXJ5BRcQ–,1422996922
Bob, What he said is well documented. People all over the Internet are extrapolating and condensing (as you did) words, and therefore meaning, that he never said or intended. 2 Months ago the “internet” claimed that Pope Francis said that dogs go to heaven. He never said that either.
Here is an English translation of what he said:
“I don’t know if it is the only cause, but mostly, in great part, it is man who has slapped nature in the face,” he said. “We have in a sense taken over nature.”
That is quite different from what you claimed he said.
More Importantly, Bob. You notice that even Tim Ball, whom I respect, never actually produced the exact language from the pope. Why didn’t Tim Ball actually use the exact quote? I say it is because there isn’t much there there. The pope’s quote really doesn’t add to Ball’s narrative,
Now that aside, I agree with the general tone of Ball’s opinion piece, but the Pope did not say what is being repeated. Also I think Ball’s opinion piece has the smell of hate effused within the text. He should not have done that.
Paul, if you are correct, then why hasn’t the Vatican issued a warning to the media to stop putting words in his mouth?
How could the media misquote the Pope and get away with it? It is a conspiracy Paul?
http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinion/international/europe/2015/01/popes_statement_on_climate_change_5_things_to_know
“HOW FAR WILL HE GO?
Francis has already asserted that climate change is happening and people are partly to blame. “I don’t know if it (human activity) is the only cause, but mostly, in great part, it is man who has slapped nature in the face,” he said last week. He has also indicated the body of the encyclical will not be consumed with scientific analysis.
“It’s not an easy issue because on the protection of creation and the study of human ecology, you can speak with sure certainty up to a certain point then come the scientific hypotheses some of which are rather sure, others aren’t,” Francis said at a news conference last August. “In an encyclical like this that must be magisterial, it must only go forward on certainties, things that are sure.”
At a U.N. Climate Change Summit in New York last September, the pope’s top diplomat, Secretary of State Cardinal Pietro Parolin, urged international intervention to curb global warming, “not only strengthening, deepening and consolidating the political process on a global level, but also intensifying our commitment to a profound cultural renewal,” according to a Vatican radio transcript.
In a November speech in London, Argentine Bishop Marcelo Sánchez Sorondo, chancellor of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences and a close friend of Francis, called for consideration of such policies as taxing and regulating environmental violations, among other moral and social remedies.
“Market forces alone, with no ethics and collective action, cannot solve the interrelated crises of poverty, exclusion and the environment,” Sanchez Sorondo said.
Still, Francis alone will decide what the encyclical will say.”
So Paul, he actually did not say “might be mostly”. He said “I don’t know if it (human activity) is the only cause, but mostly, in great part, it is man who has slapped nature in the face.”
He has passed judgement in spite of admitting he doesn’t know. Hmmmm.
“…consolidating the political process on a global level…” Hmmmm.
This the translation of the exact quote and what Tim Ball could not bring himself to show you.
“I don’t know if it is the only cause, but mostly, in great part, it is man who has slapped nature in the face,” he said. “We have in a sense taken over nature.”
His first 3 words were “I DON’t KNOW”. Furthermore he says nothing in particular as to what man had done, other than slap the face of nature, whatever that means.
Why didn’t Tim Ball write out the quote?
If he doesn’t know Paul, as both you and he amply point out, then why has he pronounced judgement, why should anyone listen to him if he doesn’t know, and what kind of “authority figure” does than then make him?
I notice you continually DENY the thrust of the Pope’s brief quote, and you deny that he was accurately quoted widely worldwide, and you deny the implications of your denial – that you ARE FOOLING YOURSELF, no less than the Pope is fooling himself!!!!
Give it up already, you’ve lost this argument.
I bet the Pope does not know why world population grew from 1.6 billion in 1900 to 7 billion today when fertility rate dropped by half to 2.3 children per woman in the same period. That’s the lowest in recorded history. Two reasons. One, infant mortality rate decreased tenfold to 6.3% of live birth. Two, life expectancy doubled to 71 years.
If he wants to reduce population quickly, stop vaccination and health care of infants to increase their mortality rate, and put more toxic substances in the environment so people will die younger. Or we can just wait as fertility rates continue to drop. If Japan doesn’t increase its fertility rate, in 500 years there will be only 15 Japanese left on the planet.
“Practically countries that survive this inevitable decline support families and open the gates to immigration.”
The global average fertility rate is 2.3 children per woman and dropping. Immigration will not solve the “problem” of population decline when all the countries fertility rate is declining to below 2.
“So the population does not age, there are taxpayers and able workers to carry on the purposes of the state.”
The world population does age. Think of the world as one big country.
Dr Ball,
For many years now WUWT has been effective at holding the idiot scientist to account for bad science. and the promotion of AGW. I wish WUWT to continue to be effective. I put the blame for the destruction of science on the lap of the likes of Phil Jones, Al Gore, and Michael Mann etc. I do not blame Mother Theresa, the Dali Lama, the Pope, Wayne Gretsky, Brad Pitt, at all. They are not scientific scholars.
I think WUWT needs to keep its eye on the ball and to not be distracted by what nefarious media wonks say celebrities say about climate.
Dr Ball, I seriously suggest that you and Anthony etc contact the Papal Nuncio in the USA and arrange a visit with him and express your view of the science. You do that very well and you are very convincing. You should also politely express how the Club of Rome is acting against the interests of the Church. I think many of the church leaders agree with you. You may have put them off with this article so if you rework your arguments as sincere advice from a respected climate expert, as you are, sans the nasty stuff, I bet he will heed your advise.
You need to be heard as a legitimate thinker, not dismissed as a hate monger.
No one here hates the Pope nor is anyone calling for hatred of the Pope. What I hate if anything is how the Pope was so easily swayed by the one-sided warmist storyline, and how he was manipulated by the White House and the wrong-headed scientists who can’t prove people caused global warming and climate change. What I hate is a world being led down this path on false premises. What I hate is the eternal burning in the warmists heart that desires DEATH to so many so they can reap the spoils. What I hate is the fact that the Pope represents that false ideology, and has declared that the human race is guilty, without due process. He is entirely insulated and may have never seen the light as so many sceptics have. What I see is that he isn’t scientific, he doesn’t see both sides.
His intended actions are actually a form of secular humanism, if you get right down to it. Where man is all-powerful enough to first warm the planet, and then under their warmist policies supposedly all-powerful enough to cool the planet. Bizzare.
Johanus, February 1, 2015 at 8:51 am
“…the Kerrys changed their name from Kohn and converted from Judaism to Catholicism.”
Which means, in birthright according to Torah Law, Kerry holds the rank of kohen (כֹּהֵן, high priest), a right which was conferred on the first kohen Aaron, the brother of Moses, and his sons as an everlasting covenant. Exodus 28:1-4
= = = = = = = = = = = = =
“Kagan” was the title of the rulers of Khazaria:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars#Ruling_elite
That’s probably how the Cohen/Kohn/Kagans became the priestly caste in modern Judaism.
“That’s probably how the Cohen/Kohn/Kagans became the priestly caste in modern Judaism.”
No, there are no priests in modern Judaism, and probably won’t be until the temple is rebuilt. (But the kohanim know who they are and will be ready if that happens.)
The Khazars only date back one or two thousand years, whereas the use of the triliteral K-H-N to denote ‘priest’ precedes Hebrew usage (Moses and Aaron lived somewhere around 1500-1200BCE) to ancient Sumeria and the Akkadian language:
KAHENNU (Akkadian). “Priest.” Cognate with Arabic KAHEN and Hebrew KOHEN.
And with a few exceptions (Melchizedek, Samuel) the priests were not kings or rulers (although some kings (melekim) assumed priestly roles). (Samuel was more of a “king maker”)
But some historians argue that some Khazars did indeed convert to Judaism:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars#Judaism
You can’t always judge the etymology of words by the appearance of similar words in other languages. For example, in Hawaiian “kahuna” means “priest, sorcerer, magician, wizard, minister, expert in any profession” and even preserves the K-H-N triliterals. But has no connection to the Semitic K-H-N.
… correction, Samuel was a prophet, not a priest.
For the catholic church, scientists are always evil.
Illuminati! Illuminati!
“Pope,” like other titles, such as “king,” should not be capitalized unless it precedes the name of a holder of that title. The Chicago Manual of Style states: