Mending Fences

Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

Recently there have been a number of accusations and bad blood involving myself, David Evans, Joanne Nova, Lord Christopher Monckton, and Leif Svalgaard. Now, I cannot speak for any of them, but on my part, my own blood ended up mightily angrified, and I fear I waxed wroth.

However, I see no point in rehashing the past. What I want to do is to return to the underlying scientific questions. In that spirit, I apologize sincerely and completely for wherever I put in “something extra” in the previous discussion. In Buddhism, there’s a concept called “something extra”, and one is enjoined to avoid putting in “something extra”.

It is explained in the following way:

If I say “I am angry” that is simply a true statement.

But if I say “You made me angry”, that is something extra.

So I ask any and all of you to please accept my sincere apologies for whatever what I said that was something extra, so that we can move past this difficult time and get back to discussing the science. Both sides have legitimate grievances, and I am happy to make the first move to get past all of them by apologizing to all of you for whatever my part was in the bad blood. I hope that the other participants accept my apology in the spirit of reconciliation in which it is offered, and that we can move forwards without rancor or recriminations.

Regarding the science, let me go back to the original question, and see what I can do in the way of making my claims in a more Canadian manner. I’ll start by looking at the recent record of the “TSI”, the total solar irradiance:

total solar irradiation ceres dataFigure 1. Monthly total solar irradiance as measured by the CERES satellite. Vertical blue line shows mid-2004.

Now, if you don’t like the data from the CERES satellite, here’s the SORCE satellite data:

sorce daily tsi 2003 2014Figure 2. Daily total solar irradiance as measured by the SORCE satellite. Vertical red line indicates mid-2004.  SOURCE

Note what is happening in both graphs after mid-2004 (vertical lines in both plots). As in every solar cycle, the TSI declines somewhat, and bottoms out. Then, it starts to rise again. And by the end of the datasets, in both cases the TSI is higher that it was in 2004.

So what was the scientific dispute all about, the discussion that underlies all of the bad feelings?

It revolved around the following graph from David Evans, referenced by both Leif Svalgaard and Lord Monckton, showing the basis of his predicted upcoming global cooling :

total solar irradiance david evansFigure 3. David Evan’s graph of TSI (gold line), along with a centered 11-year moving average of the TSI data (red, with dotted blue extension), and a 25 year unspecified smooth of temperature, presumably a trailing average (blue line). (Click to enlarge)

Now, as you can see, the bright red line basically falls off the edge of the earth around 2004. The note says “The recent falloff in solar radiation started somewhere in 2003-2005″.

However, a look at both the SORCE and the CERES data shows no such “falloff in solar radiation”, neither precipitous nor otherwise. In fact, both datasets agree that by 2013 the TSI was well above the level in mid-2004.

Since there is no fall in the underlying data of any kind, why does the red 11-year average line show abrupt cooling starting around 2004?

The answer lies in the various problems with the graph.

• The TSI data is a splice of three datasets, with two of them showing the post-2000 period. This is a huge source of potential error in itself. However, it gets worse.

• One of the spliced datasets is the Lean TSI reconstruction, an outdated dataset that the authors of the reconstruction themselves admit is inaccurate.

• Another is the PMOD dataset. It is known to be reading low by 0.2 W/ms at the solar minimum, introducing a spurious apparently strong recent “cooling” where none exists.

• The 11-year centered average is an extremely bad choice for a filter for sunspot/TSI data. Because the solar cycle varies both longer and shorter than 11 years, at times the 11-year average actually reverses the sense of the data, converting peaks into valleys and valleys into peaks. Look at the period from 1760-1800 in Figure 3, for example. What is happening is that the frequency data is getting strongly aliased into the amplitude data. As a result, the average can end up far from the reality, particularly at the ends of the dataset.

For another example, look at the period just after 1740 in Figure 3. The 11-year average takes a huge vertical jump … but meanwhile back in the real word, the TSI itself is not rising at all. It is falling. Clearly, the large vertical jump in the red line is totally spurious.

• The TSI data has had about 900 days of “data” added to it using an arbitrarily chosen value. This is shown by the blue dots which indicate a continuing drop in the temperature.

So regarding the question of why the red line is acting so strangely, the answer is that we have a perfect storm of spliced data, bad data, arbitrary “data” added to the spliced bad data, and an extremely poor filter choice.

And as a result, the red line doesn’t represent reality in any shape or form. There is no precipitous drop in TSI starting around 2004. It doesn’t exist. Sure, the 11-year average says clearly that there is a huge drop starting around that time … but the actual data says something entirely different, as shown in Figures 1 and 2.

Now, in the heat of the moment Leif described the red line as being “almost fraudulent”. I think this was an over-reaction, but perhaps an understandable one. After all, if the red line were flipped over vertically it would make a lovely hockeystick, and if someone claimed warming was coming based on that hockeystick, people would call them alarmists … and calling someone an alarmist is certainly a close relative of calling them “almost fraudulent”.

However, my guideline is, never ascribe to malice what is adequately explained by error and misunderstanding. So I do not call their red line fraudulent, nor did I do so in the original discussion. Instead, I say that it is an error resulting from a misunderstanding. In any case, let me suggest that we leave out all ascription of motive and intent, that goes nowhere, and that we return to the science.

A more scientifically neutral description of the red line is that it is highly inaccurate and potentially misleading, because the apparent drop starting in 2003-2005 is simply an artifact of a combination of bad data and bad filtering.

Finally, to the degree that David Evans’ model predicts future cooling based on the red line, it is already falsified.

That is what I was trying to say, and I believe (subject to correction) that was what Leif was pointing out as well.

In closing, I will endeavor in this thread to keep my comments on as scientific a basis as possible, to avoid any personal references, and to not ascribe motive or intent. I request that everyone do the same. Many toes have already been stepped on in this discussion. Let’s see if we can simply discuss the science.

My best to all,

w.

VERY IMPORTANT: It is important in general, and in this discussion in particular, that you QUOTE THE EXACT WORDS THAT YOU DISAGREE WITH. Note that this doesn’t mean just referencing their entire comment. Quote the exact words of their comment that you think are in error, and tell us why you think those words are wrong. If you do not quote the exact words that you disagree with, none of us will know what you are referring to … and out of such misunderstandings grows animosity and misunderstanding.

Finally, please don’t delve into the rights and wrongs of what has happened in the previous discussions. I am not interested in the slightest in ascribing blame or responsibility. I have accepted my own responsibility for my own actions and apologized for wherever I was over the line. What I or the others did in the past is a blind alley, so please confine your comments to the science, and as the saying goes, “Let the dead past bury its dead”.

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Richard D
July 18, 2014 1:21 pm

Willis Eschenbach says “Mending Fences”. Posted on July 16, 2014by Willis Eschenbach
Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach
++++++++++++++++
“Mending Fences”, ???
Is this head post some inane joke?

July 18, 2014 1:22 pm

Lord
‘Bizarrely, Mr Eschenbach continues to insist that Dr Evans has not published his full model, even though Dr Evans has done so. If Mr Eschenbach were to study the model and the related material that has been made available, he will find full explanations of the parametrizations chosen by Dr Evans. Should he be in any doubt, he can write – politely, if possible – to Dr Evans asking for any specific information he has been unable to locate in what is a large corpus of work, whereupon (provided that he ceases his imprudent and unjustifiable campaign here and elsewhere against Dr Evans), he will no doubt obtain the information he demands in so unfortunate, unpleasant and public a manner.”
Willis and I have been asking for the same thing and Dr. Evans refuses, in Mannian manner, to refuse the release of the material.
In his series of posts Dr. Evans made two different claims.
Claim 1. He claimed to derive a model using data and a series of methods. he claimed that out of sample testing was conducted in making this model.
Claim 2. He claims that the model will predict temperatures.
As I’ve pointed out here and at Jo’s these are two different claims. Claim 2 cannot be tested today. Claim 1 can be tested.
Dr. Evans has released the model which allows people to assess claim 2. But claim 2 rests on claim 1. And Willis has been clear in his requests for the information in support of claim 1.
We would like to see and have asked for
1. The out of sample testing performed. This was promised but has not been delievered
2. The actual data used.
3. The actual steps in code used to CREATE the model.
This is no different than the requests we have made of mann and santer.

July 18, 2014 1:26 pm

I say from models, to solar strength or weakness relative to other cycles ,to solar/climate connections there is no agreement and this is how it will remain until this prolonged solar minimum clears up matters one way or the other.
This site is once again good because it is giving everyone a fair chance to express his/her opinion as much as one likes. Can’t ask for more then that.

July 18, 2014 1:27 pm

Salvatore Del Prete says:
July 18, 2014 at 12:49 pm
I say Lockwood’s model is sound.
Well, you have no standing to say so. You have no experience in these matters, have not published anything, have no background, and generally have just fallen for confirmation bias. So, say want you want, believe what you want, but don’t think that that is science. And please hold back on your flood of comments that are all off topic for the article posted.

July 18, 2014 1:33 pm

One does not need to respond to what one does not want to respond to.

July 18, 2014 1:38 pm

Salvatore Del Prete says:
July 18, 2014 at 1:26 pm
This site is once again good because it is giving everyone a fair chance to express his/her opinion as much as one likes. Can’t ask for more then that.
But you should stay on the topic, and you generally don’t.

Reply to  lsvalgaard
July 18, 2014 1:46 pm

Avery Harden:
In the peer-reviewed article at http://wmbriggs.com/blog/?p=7923 I argue that in the period which
ended with the publication of IPCC Assessment Report 5 climatologists of the main stream reached their conclusions about global warming through applications of the equivocation fallacy. Refute it if you can.

Richard D
July 18, 2014 1:43 pm

lsvalgaard says: July 18, 2014 at 1:27 pm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
An appeal to his own authority, typical. Note well this…. lsvalgaard has not proved his laughable assertion that the claims by Evans are FRADULENT.

July 18, 2014 1:46 pm

Steven Mosher says
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/07/16/mending-fences/#comment-1689060
Henry says
We really don’t need any models. Any kid from the street who knows a bit about stats and earth physics can figure it out for himself that the world is cooling. ….
http://blogs.24.com/henryp/2013/02/21/henrys-pool-tables-on-global-warmingcooling/
Note that the final results on the bottom of all three tables show a cooling trend and the results in the last table suggest that there cannot be any man made warming…..there is no room for it in the equation…..
Cannot believe you guys are still arguing endlessly about the [useless] TSI and SS numbers.
Why don’t you try to pair off the drop in the solar magnetic field strengths
http://ice-period.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/sun2013.png
with the deceleration in maximum temperatures?
@Avery Harden
Truth is that 97% of all climate scientists are BS because their jobs and even my pension depends on it being true. It is BIG MONEY.

Agnostic
July 18, 2014 1:48 pm

@Steven Mosher
Willis, myself and others have been asking for the same thing. But without any luck.
I absolutely understand that you and Willis (and others) feel you need this data, or at least some indication of where to find it with the already released material. I can see that point of view and it seems eminently reasonable. What doesn’t seem reasonable to me is to imply that Dr Evans is ‘withholding’ or ‘hiding’ the information you are so keen on seeing because he hasn’t responded to blog comments.
Willis asked for the out of sample testing. he was assured it was done. The data was promised but not delivered. I suspect it is in Mann’s censored folder.
….and see, to me, that comment in bold strikes me as “mendacious” to borrow a term Christopher Monckton is fond of using. I may be wrong, but it does not seem to me that either you or Willis or Leif have really taken the time and trouble to understand what is going on with Dr Evans model. As a consequence conclusions have been jumped to and a vast amount of energy has been wasted on trying to get those we count on to do honest unbiased analysis to look at it objectively.
It would benefit us all if that could be done. I really don’t know if Dr Evans model is valid and I don’t have the time or tools easily to hand to find out for myself. Guys like yourself and most especially Willis, who has become something of a “laymans champion”, are who people like myself, with enough technical knowledge to follow most discussions, but maybe not enough to undertake them, look to to do those kinds of analyses. But it is obvious to me Willis hasn’t understood what has been attempted and has backed himself into a corner with what are strawman arguments. I would be inclined to give Dr Evans the benefit of the doubt (as I did to climate scientists who were making extraordinary claims about anthropogenic warming) and assume that he knows what he is talking about and is not some naive newbie. If something strikes you as odd, then concluding immediately that it is a “newbie” mistake doesn’t convince us that you have understood what is going on, only that you have jumped to conclusions He may still be wrong, but the manner and content of the arguments being put forth aren’t getting it done. This is what I am finding so disappointing, the discussion and argument is not being conducted honestly.
It would be better if you just said: “Look, I don’t understand what he has done, and I don’t have time or inclination to fully parse it in order to make an informed and objective assessment.”
I would even accept you (or Willis) saying; “in order to take any analysis further, I have emailed Dr Evans to request the location of data I require that would help me understand what is going on the model and test it. Until I have reply with the information I need I am in no position to comment on its veracity.”
If he doesn’t respond and continues not to respond to a direct emailed request, I think you would then be in a position to say that the model is without merit because it can’t tested properly. But complaining that he hasn’t provided you with the information, when he has said he has, and complaining on blog comments without directly contacting Dr Evans, is pretty poor form to say the very very least.

July 18, 2014 1:59 pm

@Avery Harden
Truth is that 97% of all climate scientists are BS because their jobs and even my pension depends on it being true. It is BIG MONEY.
That should actually read
Truth is that 97% of all climate scientists are BS’rs because their jobs and even my pension depends on man made warming being true. It is BIG MONEY.
Note that all current results [never mind my own]
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadcrut4gl/from:1987/to:2015/plot/hadcrut4gl/from:2002/to:2015/trend/plot/hadcrut3gl/from:1987/to:2015/plot/hadcrut3gl/from:2002/to:2015/trend/plot/rss/from:1987/to:2015/plot/rss/from:2002/to:2015/trend/plot/hadsst2gl/from:1987/to:2015/plot/hadsst2gl/from:2002/to:2015/trend/plot/hadcrut4gl/from:1987/to:2002/trend/plot/hadcrut3gl/from:1987/to:2002/trend/plot/hadsst2gl/from:1987/to:2002/trend/plot/rss/from:1987/to:2002/trend
show that global cooling will continue. Those that honestly think that we can put more carbon dioxide in the air to stop the cooling are just not being realistic. There really is no hard evidence supporting the notion that (more) CO2 is causing any (more) warming of the planet, whatsoever.
if you are interested you can read some of my musings here:
http://blogs.24.com/henryp/2011/08/11/the-greenhouse-effect-and-the-principle-of-re-radiation-11-aug-2011/
On same issue, there are those that argue that it is better to be safe than sorry; but, really, as things are looking now, they are now also beginning to stand in the way of progress. You still pointing to melting arctic ice and NH glaciers, as “proof” that it is (still) warming, and not cooling, should remember that there is a lag from energy-in and energy-out. Counting back 88 years i.e. 2013-88= we are in 1925.
Now look at some eye witness reports of the ice back then?
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/03/16/you-ask-i-provide-november-2nd-1922-arctic-ocean-getting-warm-seals-vanish-and-icebergs-melt/
Sounds familiar? Back then, in 1922, they had seen that the arctic ice melt was due to the warmer Gulf Stream waters. However, by 1950 all that same ‘lost” ice had frozen back. I therefore predict that all lost arctic ice will also come back, from 2020-2035 as also happened from 1935-1950. Antarctic ice is already increasing.
To those actively involved in trying to suppress the temperature results as they are available on-line from official sources, I say: Let fools stay fools if they want to be. Fiddling with the data they can, to save their jobs, but people still having to shove snow in late spring, will soon begin to doubt the data…Check the worry in my eyes when they censor me. Under normal circumstances I would have let things rest there and just be happy to know the truth for myself. Indeed, I let things lie a bit. However, chances are that humanity will fall in the pit of global cooling and later me blaming myself for not having done enough to try to safeguard food production for 7 billion people and counting.
It really was very cold in 1940′s….The Dust Bowl drought 1932-1939 was one of the worst environmental disasters of the Twentieth Century anywhere in the world. Three million people left their farms on the Great Plains during the drought and half a million migrated to other states, almost all to the West. http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/res/div/ocp/drought/dust_storms.shtml
Danger from global cooling is documented and provable. It looks we have only ca. 7 “fat” years left……

Mr Green Genes
July 18, 2014 2:13 pm

johanna says:
July 18, 2014 at 8:58 am
Well, Chris, if you can find a single person in a British pub (the few that are left) who has a clue what “waxing wroth” means, good luck.

=====================================
You can find me in a British pub; I know what it means. And if you ask me really nicely, I’ll tell you the name of the pub.
Monckton of Brenchley – Remember, never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig likes it. 😉

Simon
July 18, 2014 2:20 pm

How come 97% of climate scientists have a consistent and unified understanding of how the climate works and the other 3% spend their time name-calling, arguing and defending their pet theories?

July 18, 2014 2:36 pm

Avery Harden says:
July 18, 2014 at 10:54 am
For the purposes of discussion I accept and accede to everything you said.
My question to you is what sort of weather/climate should we be expecting to have at the now 11,717 year old Holocene interglacial?
If you haven’t been keeping up, 11,500 years would be exactly half a precession cycle. Seven of the last eight warmings to the interglacial level have each lasted about half a precession cycle.
From my research on the subject the jury is still out on whether or not we will end up having an extended interglacial, like that eighth one, which was MIS-11, the Holsteinian interglacial.
What would appear to be fairly certain is that if the Holocene is winding down, approaching its normal natural end, then:
“The lesson from the last interglacial “greenhouse” in the Bahamas is that the closing of that interval brought sea-level changes that were rapid and extreme. This has prompted the remark that between the greenhouse and the icehouse lies a climatic “madhouse”!
conclude Neuman and Hearty (1996) http://www.researchgate.net/publication/249518169_Rapid_sea-level_changes_at_the_close_of_the_last_interglacial_(substage_5e)_recorded_in_Bahamian_island_geology/file/9c96051c6e66749912.pdf
There are actually two answers to the question I posed to you. (1) If the Holocene is winding up to wind down then next up is the climatic “madhouse” known as glacial inception, with up to at least 3 major thermal excursions, the last one, so far, always being the strongest with sea level highstands that can be anywhere from 1 to 2 orders of magnitude higher than the IPCC’s worst case scenario known as “business as usual”, meaning we do nothing at all about CO2.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/03/16/the-end-holocene-or-how-to-make-out-like-a-madoff-climate-change-insurer/
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/05/29/glacial-inception/
(2) However the second answer is far more interesting. If the IPCC is right about anthropogenic warming, then Ruddiman’s 2003 Early Anthropogenic Hypothesis is probably also correct. Muller and Pross (2007) sum it up well:
“The possible explanation as to why we are still in an interglacial relates to the early anthropogenic hypothesis of Ruddiman (2003, 2005). According to that hypothesis, the anomalous increase of CO2 and CH4 concentrations in the atmosphere as observed in mid- to late Holocene ice-cores results from anthropogenic deforestation and rice irrigation, which started in the early Neolithic at 8000 and 5000 yr BP, respectively. Ruddiman proposes that these early human greenhouse gas emissions prevented the inception of an overdue glacial that otherwise would have already started.”
conclude Muller and Pross (2007) http://folk.uib.no/abo007/share/papers/eemian_and_lgi/mueller_pross07.qsr.pdf
Avery, this simply cannot be had both ways, I hope you understand. Either CO2 can, and indeed may already have, prevented an overdue glacial inception, or it cannot and THAT climatic “madhouse” is what lies ahead. No matter how you try to cut it, that is literally all that the climate debates come down to, period.
What we are playing here is climate poker. The dealer calls for cards. You draw the ‘wild card’ known as CO2/AGW. Do you think you have a ‘pat’ hand?’
I draw Sirocko and Seelos (2005):
“Investigating the processes that led to the end of the last interglacial period is relevant for understanding how our ongoing interglacial will end, which has been a matter of much debate…..”
“The onset of the LEAP occurred within less than two decades, demonstrating the existence of a sharp threshold, which must be near 416 Wm2, which is the 65oN July insolation for 118 kyr BP (ref. 9). This value is only slightly below today’s value of 428 Wm2. Insolation will remain at this level slightly above the [glacial] inception for the next 4,000 years before it then increases again.”
http://www.particle-analysis.info/LEAP_Nature__Sirocko+Seelos.pdf
As you are to the dealer’s right, it’s your bet. Check your hand and your stacks of chips (civilization as we know it). If you are right, and you decide to “go all in” make absolutely sure you understand the stakes. Being right about both CO2 and its removal from the late Holocene atmosphere means you just took the only thing so far on the table that might get us across the ~4,000 year insolation gap “before it then increases again.”
We are waiting…………..
While we are waiting, we are discussing what in essence might be the very tipping point everyone is afraid of, but of the opposite sign of the one expected. Insolation today is very close to that at the glacial inceptions known for the end-Eemian and end-Holsteinian interglacials. Now if the sun really does look to go even quieter in coming years AND we throttle CO2 ASAP, could this be all that is needed to tip us into glacial inception?
Bet you didn’t see that one coming.

July 18, 2014 2:44 pm

Agnostic says:
July 18, 2014 at 1:48 pm
it does not seem to me that either you or Willis or Leif have really taken the time and trouble to understand what is going on with Dr Evans model.
Since he has not released how the parameter set is constructed, one cannot try to understand the model, but my point is not the model as such, but that the data used very likely are not correct, and that garbage in – garbage out follows. Now, I have offered Evans what I believe is data closer to reality, but to no avail. One can argue that my data is also wrong, but another dataset would offer a sensitivity test of the model, something Evans should do as part of a scientific approach in any case. If the code had been released, I could do this sensitivity test myself, but, alas, as things stand, I cannot. Nor can anybody else with their preferred dataset. This is my problem with Evans work. In addition, it is not credible that Evans had no idea that the reconstructions of TSI are controversial. If he claims that he had no idea, then that shows a lack of competence.

Mark Bofill
July 18, 2014 3:14 pm

Does everybody here know something I don’t? Why is it that nobody seems astonished that Dr. Evans won’t release the code and data Willis and Steven keep asking for and put the matter to rest? Seriously, does he not have it? Or is it that he has it but is worried about releasing it for some reason? What on earth is happening here?

July 18, 2014 3:20 pm

Mark Bofill says:
July 18, 2014 at 3:14 pm
Seriously, does he not have it?
Over on his blog I asked him directly whether the determination of the parameter set was done by code, i.e. a model, or if it was just manual random fiddling with 11 parameters until the result looked as desired [“with four parameters I can fit an elephant, with five I can make him wiggle his trunk”]. Never got an answer…

July 18, 2014 3:26 pm

let me take some time to remind people why willis and I demand the
1.data AS USED
2. code AS RUN
The first one is simple. Suppose I tell you that I used GISS, and I gave you a link to the dataset
and said ‘go fetch’. Is that good enough for me to test your claim?
Does anybody remember, does anyone here remember the first man to FOIA Jones?
Huh? any of you? It was willis. Why? because we asked for the data and Jones pointed us to the pile where he claimed it resided. And Willis rightly recognized that pointing at the pile was not good enough. We needed to know, we needed a copy of the data that jones actually used.
Returning to GISS, suppose I tell you that I used GISS data. Is that good enough? No.
why not? Because the data may have and probably has changed from the time I downloaded it.
So we ask for the data AS USED. not because we cant go to a link. but because we want to eliminate sources of error. Evans used data to make his model. he needs to post copies of that data as Used. This prevents us from making mistakes when we evaluate his work.
next we want the code as run. we want the code used to CREATE the model.
Dr. Evans offers instead a verbal description of mathematical operations. This is not good enough since the best record of what was done is the ACTUAL CODE AS RUN.
Now why do we ask for the code as run.
here is another story none of you remember.
I give a hint. remember the email where Jones describes why Steve mcintyre cannot replicate his results. an undisclosed variance correction.
Dear Phil,
In keeping with the spirit of your suggestions to look at some of the other multiproxy
publications, I’ve been looking at Jones et al [1998]. The methodology here is obviously
more straightforward than MBH98. However, while I have been able to substantially emulate
your calculations, I have been unable to do so exactly. The differences are larger in the
early periods.
Since I have been unable to replicate the results exactly based on available materials, I
would appreciate a copy of the actual data set used in Jones et al [1998] as well as the
code used in these calculations.
There is an interesting article on replication by Anderson et al., some distinguished
economists, here [1]http://research.stlouisfed.org/wp/2005/2005-014.pdf discussing the
issue of replication in applied economics and referring favorably to our attempts in
respect to MBH98.
Regards, Steve McIntyre
Mike,
Presumably you’ve seen all this – the forwarded email from Tim. I got this email from
McIntyre a few days ago. As far as I’m concerned he has the data – sent ages ago. I’ll
tell him this, but that’s all – no code. If I can find it, it is likely to be hundreds of
lines of
uncommented fortran ! I recall the program did a lot more that just average the series.
I know why he can’t replicate the results early on – it is because there was a variance
correction for fewer series.
See you in Bern.
Cheers
Phil

July 18, 2014 3:32 pm

“.and see, to me, that comment in bold strikes me as “mendacious” to borrow a term Christopher Monckton is fond of using. I may be wrong, but it does not seem to me that either you or Willis or Leif have really taken the time and trouble to understand what is going on with Dr Evans model. ”
well you would be wrong.
in the second place There is no OBLIGATION to try to understand what he has written when the PROOF is in the data and code.
so, yes I read it.
yes, I understand it.
Now, i want to do a SIMPLE CHECK
I want to check that his CODE matches the description of it.
he made a claim. I under stand it. Now I want to see his work.
Did you not learn to show your work?
the work is simple The data he used, the code he ran,
for craps sake guys.. not a single one of you gave Willis or steve crap when they went after Jones and hansen or Mann for their stuff.

Mark Bofill
July 18, 2014 3:42 pm

I’m catching up, sorry I haven’t been following this closely until now. JoNova links his excerpts that talks about a ‘monkey’, (sounds like a routine that randomly fiddles the parameters until the output matches the observations to me (Appendix L1)) and a couple of other stages, the details behind this text is what the parameter discussion is about, right?

Mark Bofill
July 18, 2014 3:43 pm

Gah hosed the link. It’s jonova.s3.amazonaws.com/cfa/excerpts.pdf I think

Richard D
July 18, 2014 3:46 pm

lsvalgaard says: July 18, 2014 at 3:20 pm
Never got an answer…”
++++++++++++++++++++
Moncton has it right regarding the treacherous, duplicitous behavior by svalgaard to wit,
” However, if I were Dr Evans I should be most disinclined to reply unless and until that commenter had published – here and at Jo Nova’s excellent website – an unreserved, unqualified and full apology for and retraction of all remarks he had made in support of the allegations that Dr Evans had acted “almost fraudulently” or had “fabricated” data or had unreasonably withheld it.”

July 18, 2014 3:52 pm

Mark Bofill says:
July 18, 2014 at 3:42 pm
JoNova links his excerpts that talks about a ‘monkey’, (sounds like a routine that randomly fiddles the parameters until the output matches the observations to me)
So, just good old curve fitting with no physics. Evans says:
“We arrived at parameter set P25 as the one to represent the solar model to the world, but please be aware that its selection was partly ad hoc and arbitrary, it might not contain the true parameter values, and it wasn’t even the set with the best fit to the temperature data.”
If so, the result is VERY sensitive to the solar input data. As I said: GIGO.
There is no model, only curve fitting with enough free parameters to fit anything.

Mark Bofill
July 18, 2014 3:59 pm

Richard D, funny. Were I Dr. Evans, I’d be more inclined to show clearly and methodically why I was right and Dr. Svalgaard was wrong. Maybe that’s just me though.

Mark Bofill
July 18, 2014 4:01 pm

Dr. Svalgaard, that’s how I read it too. This is not my field though, so I freely admit the possibility that I’m just misunderstanding what I’m looking at, if someone wants to jump in and explain how fiddling with the parameters until the results match the observations is something more.

July 18, 2014 4:04 pm

Mark Bofill says:
July 18, 2014 at 4:01 pm
if someone wants to jump in and explain how fiddling with the parameters until the results match the observations is something more.
Perhaps Richard D [or Mr Monckton himself] can educate us on this, if Evans is ‘disinclined’…

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