Overpopulation: The Fallacy Behind The Fallacy Of Global Warming

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Guest essay by Dr. Tim Ball

Global Warming was just one issue The Club of Rome (TCOR) targeted in its campaign to reduce world population. In 1993 the Club’s co-founder, Alexander King with Bertrand Schneider wrote The First Global Revolution stating,

“The common enemy of humanity is man. In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome. The real enemy then, is humanity itself.”

They believe all these problems are created by humans but exacerbated by a growing population using technology. Changed attitudes and behavior basically means what it has meant from the time Thomas Malthus raised the idea the world was overpopulated. He believed charity and laws to help the poor were a major cause of the problem and it was necessary to reduce population through rules and regulations. TCOR ideas all ended up in the political activities of the Rio 1992 conference organized by Maurice Strong (a TCOR member) under the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP).

The assumptions and objectives became the main structure of Agenda 21, the master plan for the 21st Century. The global warming threat was confronted at Rio through the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) and creation of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). It was structured to predetermine scientific proof that human CO2 was one contribution of the common enemy.

The IPCC was very successful. Despite all the revelations about corrupted science and their failed predictions (projections) CO2 remains central to global attention about energy and environment. For example, several websites, many provided by government, list CO2 output levels for new and used cars. Automobile companies work to build cars with lower CO2 output and, if for no other reason than to appear green, use it in advertising. The automotive industry, which has the scientists to know better, collectively surrenders to eco-bullying about CO2. They are not alone. They get away with it because they pass on the unnecessary costs to a befuddled “trying to do the right thing” population.

TCOR applied Thomas Malthus’s claim of a race to exhaustion of food to all resources. Both Malthus and COR believe limiting population was mandatory. Darwin took a copy of Malthus’s Essay on Population with him and remarked on its influence on his evolutionary theory in his Beagle journal in September 1838. The seeds of distortion about overpopulation were sown in Darwin’s acceptance of Malthus’s claims.

Paul Johnson’s biography of Charles Darwin comments on the contradiction between Darwin’s scientific methods and his acceptance of their omission in Malthus.

Malthuss aim was to discourage charity and reform the existing poor laws, which, he argued, encourage the destitute to breed and so aggravated the problem. That was not Darwins concern. What struck him was the contrast between geometrical progression (breeding) and arithmetical progression (food supplies). Not being a mathematician he did not check the reasoning and accuracy behind Malthus’s law in fact, Malthus’s law was nonsense. He did not prove it. He stated it. What strikes one reading Malthus is the lack of hard evidence throughout. Why did this not strike Darwin? A mystery. Malthuss only proof was the population expansion of the United States.

There was no point at which Malthuss geometrical/arithmetical rule could be made to square with the known facts. And he had no reason whatsoever to extrapolate from the high American rates to give a doubling effect every 25 years everywhere and in perpetuity.

He swallowed Malthusianism because it fitted his emotional need, he did not apply the tests and deploy the skepticism that a scientist should. It was a rare lapse from the discipline of his profession. But it was an important one.

Darwin’s promotion of Malthus undoubtedly gave the ideas credibility they didn’t deserve. Since then the Malthusian claim has dominated science, social science and latterly environmentalism. Even now many who accept the falsity of global warming due to humans continue to believe overpopulation is a real problem.

Overpopulation was central in all TCOR’s activities. Three books were important to their message, Paul Ehrlich’s The Population Bomb (1968) and Ecoscience: Population, Resources and Environment (1977) co-authored with John Holdren, Obama’s Science Czar, and Meadows et al., Limits to Growth, published in 1972 that anticipated the IPCC approach of computer model predictions (projections). The latter wrote

If the present growth trends in world population, industrialization, pollution, food production, and resource depletion continue unchanged, the limits to growth on this planet will be reached sometime within the next one hundred years.

Here is what the TCOR web site says about the book.

They created a computing model which took into account the relations between various global developments and produced computer simulations for alternative scenarios. Part of the modelling were different amounts of possibly available resources, different levels of agricultural productivity, birth control or environmental protection.

They estimated the current amount of a resource, determined the rate of consumption, and added an expanding demand because of increasing industrialization and population growth to determine, with simple linear trend analysis, that the world was doomed.

Economist Julian Simon challenged TCOR and Ehrlich’s assumptions.

In response to Ehrlich’s published claim that “If I were a gambler, I would take even money that England will not exist in the year 2000” – a proposition Simon regarded as too silly to bother with – Simon countered with “a public offer to stake US$10,000 … on my belief that the cost of non-government-controlled raw materials (including grain and oil) will not rise in the long run.

Simon proposed,

You could name your own terms: select any raw material you wanted – copper, tin, whatever – and select any date in the future, “any date more than a year away,” and Simon would bet that the commodity’s price on that date would be lower than what it was at the time of the wager.

John Holdren selected the materials and the time. Simon won the bet.

Global warming used the idea that CO2 would increase to harmful levels because of increasing industrialization and expanding populations. The political manipulation of climate science was linked to development and population control in various ways. Here are comments from a PBS interview with Senator Tim Wirth in response to the question, What was it in the late 80s, do you think, that made the issue [of global warming] take off? He replied,

I think a number of things happened in the late 1980s. First of all, there were the [NASA scientist Jim] Hansen hearings [in 1988]. … We had introduced a major piece of legislation. Amazingly enough, it was an 18-part climate change bill; it had population in it, conservation, and it had nuclear in it. It had everything that we could think of that was related to climate change. … And so we had this set of hearings, and Jim Hansen was the star witness.

Wikipedia says about Wirth,

In the State Department, he worked with Vice President Al Gore on global environmental and population issues, supporting the administration’s views on global warming. A supporter of the proposed Kyoto Protocol Wirth announced the U.S.’s commitment to legally binding limits on greenhouse gas emissions.

Gore chaired the 1988 “Hansen” Senate Hearing and was central to the promotion of population as basic to all other problems. He led the US delegation to the September 1994 International Conference on Population and Development in Cairo Egypt.

That conference emerged from Rio 1992 where they linked population to all other supposed problems.

Explicitly integrating population into economic and development strategies will both speed up the pace of sustainable development and poverty alleviation and contribute to the achievement of population objectives and an improved quality of life of the population.

This theme was central to Rio+20 held in June 2012 and designed to re-emphasize Rio 1992.

The Numbers

The world is not overpopulated. That fallacy is perpetuated in all environmental research, policy and planning including global warming and latterly climate change. So what are the facts about world population?

The US Census Bureau provides a running estimate of world population. It was 6,994,551,619 on February 15, 2012. On October 30, 2011 the UN claimed it passed 7 billion; the difference is 5,448,381. This is more than the population of 129 countries of the 242 listed by Wikipedia. It confirms most statistics are crude estimates, especially those of the UN who rely on individual member countries, yet no accurate census exists for any of them

Population density is a more meaningful measure. Most people are concentrated in coastal flood plains and deltas, which are about 5 percent of the land. Compare Canada, the second largest country in the world with approximately 35.3 million residents estimated in 2013 with California where an estimated 37.3 million people lived in 2010. Some illustrate the insignificance of the density issue by putting everyone in a known region. For example, Texas at 7,438,152,268,800 square feet divided by the 2012 world population 6,994,551,619 yields 1063.4 square feet per person. Fitting all the people in an area is different from them being able to live there. Most of the world is unoccupied by humans.

Population geographers separate ecumene, the inhabited area, from non-ecumene the uninhabited areas. The distribution of each changes over time because of technology, communications and food production capacity. Many of these changes deal with climate controls. Use of fire and clothing allowed survival in colder regions, while irrigation offset droughts and allowed settlement in arid regions. Modern environmentalists would likely oppose all of these touted evolutionary advances.

Ironically The Fallacious Problem is The Solution

It all sounds too familiar in the exploitation of science for a political and personal agenda. But there is an even bigger tragedy because the development the TCOR and IPCC condemn is actually the solution.

All of the population predictions Ehrlich and others made were wrong, but more important and damning was they ignored another pattern that was identified in 1929 and developed over the same period as the Mathusian claims. It is known as the Demographic Transition.

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It shows and statistics confirm, population declines as nations industrialize and the economy grows. It is so dramatic in developed countries that the population pyramid results in insufficient young people to support the massively expensive social programs for the elderly. Some countries offset this with migration, but they are simply creating other problems. Countries that don’t allow or severely limit migration such as Japan face completely different problems. Some countries offer incentives for having more than two children, such as the announcement by Vladimir Putin in Russia. China took draconian, inhuman, steps by limiting families to one child. The irony, although there is nothing funny about it, is they are now the largest producer of CO2 and their economy booms. If they had simply studied the demographic transition and let things take a normal course the tragedies already incurred and yet to unfold could have been avoided.

The world is not overpopulated. Malthus began the idea suggesting the population would outgrow the food supply. Currently food production is believed sufficient to feed 25 billion people and growing. The issue is that in the developing world some 60 percent of production never makes it to the table. Developed nations cut this figure to 30 percent primarily through refrigeration. In their blind zeal those who brought you the IPCC fiasco cut their teeth on the technological solution to this problem – better and cheaper refrigeration. The CFC/ ozone issue was artificially created to ban CFCs and introduce global control through the Montreal Protocol. It, like the Kyoto Protocol was a massive, expensive, unnecessary solution to a non-existent problem.

TCOR and later UNEP’s Agenda 21 adopted and expanded the Malthusian idea of overpopulation to all resources making it the central tenet of all their politics and policies. The IPCC was set up to assign the blame of global warming and latterly climate change on human produced CO2 from an industrialized expanding population. They both developed from false assumptions, used manipulated data and science, which they combined into computer models whose projections were, not surprisingly, wrong. The result is the fallacy of global warming due to human CO2 is a subset built on the fallacy of overpopulation.

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January 6, 2014 1:05 pm

Was that the mod who told GregS ‘ ( after his reidiculous rant against life itself) you may lead by example? That was what i wanted to say but thought it might get ‘flagged’! Very funny!

January 6, 2014 1:07 pm

Sloppy spelling sorry:]

Aphan
January 6, 2014 1:18 pm

I’m sorry….I wandered off trying to imagine what a 1 cubic kilometer “sphere” looks like……

January 6, 2014 1:33 pm

OssQss I am glad you have woken up! I suggest to everypne interested to watch the video OSS has posted. I hope it frightens people, because that is only the tip of the iceberg. Our leaders from the Bushes to Clinton and Obama have committed treason against the Constitution by not pulling us out of the UN! Antony Sutton, was the historian who has put this all together from the Hegelian background of our American Skull and Bones elites (Kerry, many Bushes all members) to the reality of the American brand of corporate rule that empowered both the Soviet revolution and the Nazi, as well as FDR’s homegrown Young Plan for the New Deal. It would be better for the UN to be destroyed then to allow them to implement this horrific ignorant and hateful agenda.

DSearring
January 6, 2014 1:34 pm

I have traveled to Africa, specifically to one of the poorest nations on earth, and while there were populous cities/towns, much of what I saw were miles and miles of open land. Land that is not currently farmable in anything other than a subsistence-only fashion. This country experienced a food shortage this year- not due to population increases, but due to improper farming techniques, improperly managed foreign-trade, local corruption, transportation problems, etc. All of these problems have solutions- technological or sociological solutions. The issue n many of these countries is lack of access to information and the corrupt nature of the institutions governing them. Neither of those is solved through the reduction of population, it is solved through the propagation or information.
Overpopulation is a convenient saw for despots and wannabe despots. It is like original sin in terms of controlling a religious population. If you are guilty of a crime just by being born (either in original sin, or in population) then the powers that be have a lever to control you.

richardscourtney
January 6, 2014 1:34 pm

otropogo:
At January 6, 2014 at 12:34 pm MattS provides an excellent refutation of a factual error which is a foundation of the assertions in your post at January 6, 2014 at 12:19 pm.
I write to refute the other main point in your post.
You say

Even IF we currently have the capacity (although this has yet to be demonstrated) to adequately feed 7 billion people (and their work animals and pets) , the critical question for the survival and progress of humanity, which Dr. Ball fails to address, is how much reserve supply of food, and fuel for transport, heating, and cooking do we have, and what redundancy is there in our system of distribution of these essentials for life?

That is a pointless question based on ignorance of reality.
In the real world, for all practical purposes there are no “physical” limits to natural resources so every natural resource can be considered to be infinite.
I explained this in my above post at January 6, 2014 at 2:00 am. This link jumps to it
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/01/05/overpopulation-the-fallacy-behind-the-fallacy-of-global-warming/#comment-1526318
Richard

January 6, 2014 1:39 pm

Why am I in mod. limbo?

cohenite
January 6, 2014 1:45 pm

“GregS, I have never met anyone who promotes population growth for growth’s sake, so stop with the silly strawmen.”
BS! Consider every Muslim nation in the world and Muslim population within Western host nations where population growth is not only encouraged but exalted.

Gail Combs
January 6, 2014 1:55 pm

cohenite says:
January 6, 2014 at 1:45 pm
“GregS, I have never met anyone who promotes population growth for growth’s sake, so stop with the silly strawmen.”
BS! Consider every Muslim nation in the world and Muslim population within Western host nations where population growth is not only encouraged but exalted.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
That is not growth for growth’s sake but a method of invasion. They also use women and children as bomb carriers.
It is humans used as a weapon. The fact that other nations ALLOW them to immigrate into their countries is the real problem. Talk about KNOWINGLY opening the gates to a Trojan Horse.
Disclaimer – I am of Muslim/Arab descent on my Mother’s side.

January 6, 2014 2:15 pm

Gail Combs says the Highland Clearances were serendipity!! What nonsense! Gail, surely you should delete or retract such an ignorant remark.The Highland Clearances like the American extirpation of the Indians or the Holocaust, were genocidal in nature and intent and thus even though good may often follow evil, it can’t be right to refer to such a thing as serendipity.

Gail Combs
January 6, 2014 2:32 pm

David G says:
January 6, 2014 at 2:15 pm
Gail Combs says the Highland Clearances were serendipity!! What nonsense! Gail….
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sorry, You have misunderstood my meaning (And of course the Genocides were atrocities)
It is the link of driving people off their farms and having the same people end up as useful cheap labor for factories that was ‘serendipity’ That is the unexpected bonus to early industrialists that I was trying to get across.
I do not think that connection was done intentionally the first time since as you say the goal was Genocide, but that does not mean the connection was not noted and put to ‘good use’ as a method of providing cheap labor since then.
If you read between the lines in the Clinton quote you can see that was the intention in Haiti.

R. de Haan
January 6, 2014 2:32 pm

says:
January 6, 2014 at 12:19 pm
Dr. Ball’s article, and many of the comments made on it, remind me of the arguments about the number of angels who can occupy the head of a needle. I’d like to remind them of the parable of the seven fat cows and the seven thin cows.
Even IF we currently have the capacity (although this has yet to be demonstrated) to adequately feed 7 billion people (and their work animals and pets) , the critical question for the survival and progress of humanity, which Dr. Ball fails to address, is how much reserve supply of food, and fuel for transport, heating, and cooking do we have, and what redundancy is there in our system of distribution of these essentials for life?
For almost all of the developed world, the lifeline of food and fuel is consists of “just in time” distribution by a complex system of motorized transport for which there is no redundancy. It is a delicate house of cards that may be brought down by solar EMP, extreme volcanism, an asteroid impact, a sudden onset ice age, or even “just” a global epidemic, possibly beyond any hope of recovery.
I have seen several popular “documentaries” about some of these threats, but never any serious attempt at estimating the effective food reserve our major cities would have, were the supply lines cut off, especially if power were also lost for refrigeration. So I’ll just take a wild stab at guesstimating that most urban centres will have less than a week’s supply of food on hand. What happens after that runs out, and there is no resupply?
Humanity is growing like Topsy while crawling out onto an ever thinner branch. And how much bare land is under that branch won’t be any solace to it when the branch breaks and our civilization goes “SPLAT!”. The best hope for humanity, realistically, is that it breaks sooner, rather than later, perhaps leaving us some amount of viable culture and infrastructure and some remnants of unpolluted soil and water for continued existence”.
Otropogo,
“Even IF we currently have the capacity (although this has yet to be demonstrated) to adequately feed 7 billion people (and their work animals and pets) ”
No doubt about the capability to feed all people in the world.
The food is there, no doubt about it and we could even without much more real problems produce double the amount of food we produce today if we stopped transforming food stocks in bio fuel and take all the lands into production that today are not used because the EU and the US farmers are paid for not using them.
If there is a problem with food it is a distribution problem (mostly caused by war) or a poverty problem or people not having the money to buy food. It is almost never a production problem.
Even during the Irish famine, Ireland wan a net food exporter. So this famine was triggered by the potato disease but the real poblem was that people didn’t have the money to buy food.
In fact we have now acquired the capability to produce sufficient fresh food locally enough to feed an entire city using a stocked “growth building”. Such a building even has multi-purpose properties so you can visit an opera, read a book or take a nice walk among the plants that are grown 24/7, 365 day’s a year.
“what redundancy is there in our system of distribution of these essentials for life?”
You must study our history.
We have made our food distribution system redundant a long time ago.
We did so during the Little Ice Age when the fleets from the Brits and the Dutch couldn’t leave their ports because of the frozen harbors and no trade was undertaken.
The “just in time” distribution system has evolved due to the real estate prices Supermarkets have to pay and the simple fact that “we can” work this way. However we have developed the technique to conserve food for years, we call it canned or dried food and every sane family has a stockpile of canned or dried food at home already and if they haven’t a stockpile it is their own fault. People should carry responsibility for their own situation.
As for disasters:
Most disasters have a local effect and if we have a “global disaster”, well…. that’s a shame than but not something to worry if i were you because it is only a minute risk compared to crossing a busy street or even sitting in a chair doing nothing.
You clearly have watched too many fear mongering disaster movies and probably need mental care, especially if I read your last remark:
“The best hope for humanity, realistically, is that it breaks sooner, rather than later, perhaps leaving us some amount of viable culture and infrastructure and some remnants of unpolluted soil and water for continued existence”.
This is a stupid remark and you break the bank with this.
You clearly support the claim that the biggest threat of mankind and the planet is humanity and that makes you “realistically” an idiot and I say this in a polite manner.
So good luck with that.

January 6, 2014 2:35 pm

My problem with the overpopulation myth is that those who believe it project populations in an exponential manner to infinity and yet freeze Technology. Human overpopulation is of course a myth. You can fit the entire population of the planet in Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona with a population density less than the liberal utopia of San Francisco County California.
In fact the number of people the earth can sustain is nowhere near saturation. Why? Well because of human invention. They project current population trends out to infinity while assuming that no human will ever invent another single thing. They say humans will never invent another machine, process, device, tool, or improve any equipment, or devise a new system, or discover anything that will improve life for the people of earth. But invention is innate to humans. It is hard wired into our genetics. And being that necessity is the mother of invention, and with an ever growing population we will have a larger pool of talent to invent solutions to our problems.
Humans can recycle nearly everything, and nothing is really used because we cannot destroy matter. And since matter is nearly infinite and matter is energy, and we have our sun to provide us with new energy constantly, thus energy is nearly infinite.
Also, humans can live anywhere on above or below the surface, we can live in deserts, arctic regions, and even on top of and below water (the earth’s surface is over 70% water) and the ability of us to grow and recycle food in nearly infinite also. We could if necessary even mine other planets for minerals and grow food on the moon or even Mars. The population cap for the earth is as infinite as our imagination.

cohenite
January 6, 2014 5:13 pm

The biggest error of the Malthusians is not only underestimating technological capacity which, after all, is only of the characteristics which distinguishes humans from the animals to which Malthus was comparing us, but how that technological capacity could apply off planet.
One of the things that impresses and depresses me about alarmists and the various other forms of catastrophists is their navel gazing and inability to look beyond their own egos.
There is a LOT of real estate in the universe and people who say there are too many people should have a telescope glued to their myopic eyes.

JP
January 6, 2014 5:28 pm

@Gail Combs
“All of you seem to think women are mindless animals.”
And why do you say that? And if this was a purely economics issue (ie an issue based upon a rational market) the birthrates of several nations wouldn’t have plunged the way they have. Education is only one of the facets here at play. Jonathan Last, who studied the subject, uses his own demographic as the prime example (he belongs to what Charles Murray refers to as the Cognitive Class). Most women in the developed world do not attend college, nor do they have advanced degrees. Additionally, for the last decade the federal government has expanded the EIC (a family of 8 or 9 can get back up to $12000 in taxes each year); many states now provide pre-school, and many Fortune 500 Companies have generous Family Leave policies. Yet, in both 2010 and 2011, US birthrates (especially among the middle class) plunged to their lowest levels.
In Europe, where governments and businesses have been even more generous, birthrates have fallen to levels where their populations will be halved every generation. Japan not only has generous parental entitlements, but it currently has a shortage of younger workers and wages are rising. Japan’s population is currently losing between 250,000 to 400,000 souls a year.
In a perfectly rational society, especially a society that has offers generous transfer of payment entitlements that cross from the younger to the older, a couple would have between 3 and 6 children to ensure that society has a constant flow of tax revenues (Enlightened Self Interest dictates that the couple would want to make sure that there would be enough taxpayers to support them when they retire). Yet, anything but rational self interest has occurred. And this phenomena cross cultural, racial, class, and economic boundaries. The US has met or exceeded birthrates of 2.1 children per female only 4 times since 1970. Our nation’s median age has gone from 24 in 1970 to 37.8 today as a consequence.
There are 2 sub-demographics in the US that have bucked this trend: Mormons and Orthodox Jews. In both cases, economics plays no part. There is much more at work here than money.

pete
January 6, 2014 5:55 pm

A couple of things:
1) Resources only exist in the first place because of the human mind. Trees were trees until we figured out we oculd make stuff from them. Iron was dirt/rocks until we figured out we could make stuff from it. Oil was an annoying sticky substance until we figured out we could burn it for energy/make stuff from it.
There is no limit to resources as our minds are effectively unlimited (at this stage of our evolution, in any case). There may be troubling periods in the transition to/from energy sources but i dont even believe that will be the case. We can see how the speculative spike in the oil price impacted the economics of alternate forms of energy and we already have other forms of energy in the pipeline (ie fusion has been demonstrated to be theoretically sound; it remains an engineering exerise to obtain net energy production).
2) We already produce enough food to feed the projected future population. We simply need to be more efficient in its distribution and use (ie it is a technological and cost issue). That is ignoring possible increases in food production altogether.
3) Impoverished nations are the result of a lack of economic and political pluralism; simply, the wealth and power of the nation is directed to the few. The absence of property rights acts as a deterrent to economic development and those who try to resolve their situation simply end up losing whatever they produce that is of value to those in power. The old Soviet saying of “we pretend to work and they pretend to pay us” comes to mind.
The solution in Africa and other impoverished areas can only happen once the people themselves have had enough and choose a different fate (unfortunately it is not as easy as simply removing the offenders powers that be and replacing the system, it will revert to the prior state unless the people themselves have taken ownership of the situation).
4) How long would we suffer from “limited resources” if we actually directed our incredible minds to the resources available outside the bounds of Planet Earth? I dare say that it is far more important to have as many people (and brains) as possible working on humanity’s problems that to try and enforce any kind of population limits. We arent confined to a petrie dish.

January 6, 2014 6:01 pm


“Even IF we currently have the capacity (although this has yet to be demonstrated) to adequately feed 7 billion people (and their work animals and pets) ”
This is obviously demonstrated fact. World food production is 3,000 kcal/day per capita. More than enough food to make every one on earth obese. Recommended daily diet is only 2,000 kcal. We waste at least 30% of food production and cows alone eat more grains than humans.
“the critical question for the survival and progress of humanity, which Dr. Ball fails to address, is how much reserve supply of food, and fuel for transport, heating, and cooking do we have, and what redundancy is there in our system of distribution of these essentials for life?”
Grains are stored for six months since they are usually harvested twice a year. People don’t stop eating grains and wait for the next harvest season. Oil refineries store at least one month supply of fuel. They don’t store more because it’s costly to keep large inventory.
“For almost all of the developed world, the lifeline of food and fuel is consists of “just in time” distribution by a complex system of motorized transport for which there is no redundancy. It is a delicate house of cards that may be brought down by solar EMP, extreme volcanism, an asteroid impact, a sudden onset ice age, or even “just” a global epidemic, possibly beyond any hope of recovery.”
We can easily store more grains and fuel. All we need is bigger warehouse and tanks. Natural disasters will disrupt supply of grains and fuel regardless of world population size. False argument.
Natural disasters are not caused by big populations.
“I have seen several popular “documentaries” about some of these threats, but never any serious attempt at estimating the effective food reserve our major cities would have, were the supply lines cut off, especially if power were also lost for refrigeration. So I’ll just take a wild stab at guesstimating that most urban centres will have less than a week’s supply of food on hand. What happens after that runs out, and there is no resupply?”
This threat had nothing to do with big population. Inventories of food and fuel depend on consumption rate. Small populations have small inventories. If you want large inventories, just build large warehouses. No need to decrease population.

nevket240
January 6, 2014 6:39 pm

Cheyne Gordon says:
January 5, 2014 at 3:34 pm
“Take a walk through the slums of Africa or Asia, and then tell me again that the world is not over-populated.”
———————-
Idiot. Have you walked through these slums, have you ever left your city based condo and the pages of Wikipedia??
I doubt it, but , if you have, take off your Eco-Whacko glasses and use your eyes.
Those countries are Third World because they are Kleptocracies. Corrupt and brutal. I live there, Asia, and the amount of theft from projects is astounding. If that money was to be used properly then there would be less need for family support through numbers.
Get off yer Rse and start looking through your own eyes.
regards

Chris
January 7, 2014 2:17 am

Well, unusually I find myself disagreeing with Anthony here. I believe that the world is overpopulated. There has been an exponential increase in population in just the last 60 years or so. 1.5 billion or thereabouts when Kennedy was president, to the current value. I agree that our ability to populate the planet is limited to geographical constraints. I won’t argue that we don’t have enough food because people are starving in Africa because this is due to the extreme climate in that area. However, there is a shortfall in energy. It diverges significantly from the usage of your average American to people living in the 3rd world.
Population is a huge problem and to say otherwise (in my opinion) is almost as bad as using Co2 as an excuse to drive population down. So Co2 isn’t a problem and population isn’t a problem. It’s a bit of a recipe for disaster really. What is the problem is that this teaches us to have a scant regard for conserving what we already have. To anyone that may know me I have always been a big supporter of people using energy carefully. Why waste it when you don’t have to. Teach our kids about economics instead of Co2. teach them that having a family comes at a price that should be affordable to them and not the welfare state.
What is happening instead is our gas and coal supplies have a noose around their proverbial necks. The people that can’t afford energy ( and there are many of them) are being forced into poverty. 10 percent of children in the UK live in poverty. And we think that we can increase the population further. Our world is corrupt and cannot support what we already have.
What will happen is people will start to die and it will sort itself out in the end through a simple process of natural selection.

January 7, 2014 4:38 am

Reblogged this on CACA and commented:
The information pertaining to this excellent Dr Tim Ball piece; The Club Of Rome, Maurice Strong, UNEP, UN, The IPCC and Agenda 21, are as vital to the topic of ‘anthropogenic’ global warming as are any of the ‘sciences’.
They are most definitely not mutually exclusive.

richardscourtney
January 7, 2014 5:21 am

Chris:
Your post at January 7, 2014 at 2:17 am begins by saying you

[you] believe that the world is overpopulated

And you follow that with a list of other beliefs which you have pertaining to your mistaken belief in the world being “overpopulated”.
You have a right to believe whatever you want. Everybody does. I know many people who believe in Santa Claus.
But this thread is about whether in reality there is problem of overpopulation of the world. The issue under discussion is not what you (or anyone else) “believes” except in so far as people express “beliefs” about overpopulation which are plain wrong.
And the beliefs you state in your post are plain wrong.
Your errors are explained in my post in this thread at
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/01/05/overpopulation-the-fallacy-behind-the-fallacy-of-global-warming/#comment-1526318
It concludes saying

The Malthusian idea is wrong because it ignores basic economics and applies a wrong model; human population is NOT constrained by resources like the population of bacteria in a Petri dish.

Please read my post and provide the reasons and/or evidence you have to refute my arguments.
And if you cannot refute my arguments then perhaps you need to question the “beliefs” stated in your post.
Richard

Alan Robertson
January 7, 2014 5:23 am

Chris says:
January 7, 2014 at 2:17 am
“What is happening instead is our gas and coal supplies have a noose around their proverbial necks. The people that can’t afford energy ( and there are many of them) are being forced into poverty. 10 percent of children in the UK live in poverty. And we think that we can increase the population further. Our world is corrupt and cannot support what we already have.
What will happen is people will start to die and it will sort itself out in the end through a simple process of natural selection.”
_____________________________
Chris, the real problem is that people who believe as you do have taken control of the government in the UK and have taken steps to cause the population to die off, which the most vulnerable are doing. It’s all government action, though and has nothing to do with supply and
demand, it’s nothing natural.
Do you feel proud that your thinking puts you in league with those who are taking active steps to reduce mankind? Look around at those people you know and see which of them you’d like to see die next and don’t forget to look in the mirror.

January 7, 2014 5:58 am

There is a repeated question in this thread about whether and how much importance economic factors have on birth-rate. No-one is doubting that economic factors affect the death-rate. Poverty kills.
However, I propose that economic factors have NO influence on the birth-rate. Poverty increases the infant mortality rate but has NO influence on the birth-rate.
My justification for this extreme position is that the economic value of a baby is not rational. To a mother or a father the life of the child is worth far more than it is to anyone else. People do give up their holidays, ambitions even their dreams for the benefit of their children.
So how much is a baby worth? That depends on whether it is yours. Educated people do spend much of their work/wealth on their offspring. And that is not rational. It is loving.

richardscourtney
January 7, 2014 6:21 am

M Courtney:
I am writing to refute your post at January 7, 2014 at 5:58 am. It says

However, I propose that economic factors have NO influence on the birth-rate. Poverty increases the infant mortality rate but has NO influence on the birth-rate.
My justification for this extreme position is that the economic value of a baby is not rational. To a mother or a father the life of the child is worth far more than it is to anyone else. People do give up their holidays, ambitions even their dreams for the benefit of their children.

It is an empirical fact that the birthrate falls to below replenishment levels in countries with sufficient affluence for people to not need families sufficiently large as to be ‘insurance’ against times of illness and old age.
Your error is to assume the desire of most people for offspring means they have a desire for as many offspring as possible. That assumption is wrong.
People have a desire to have as many offspring as they need. When people have sufficient affluence to not need large families then they only have sufficient children to fulfill their emotional need for offspring.
The emotional need for offspring is – on average – less than 2.1 children per couple, and that is why birth rate falls in affluent societies.
There are specific exceptions to this. The exceptions include
(a) people with high libido and no means of birth control and/or abortion,
(b) people with much higher than average emotional need for children,
(c) Royal Families with need for several children until sufficient male heirs are obtained,
(d) to (n).
But your claim that “economic factors have NO influence on the birth-rate” is demonstrated to be wrong by observations.
Richard

Chris
January 7, 2014 6:56 am

Alan Robertson says
“Do you feel proud that your thinking puts you in league with those who are taking active steps to reduce mankind? Look around at those people you know and see which of them you’d like to see die next and don’t forget to look in the mirror.”
I am not suggesting for a moment that we take active steps to reduce anything. So please don’t draw false inferences about what you perceive as my solution. What we can do however is educate the children in school about sustainability and affordability. Everyone wants what everyone else wants. it’s the reason why there is so much war in the world. We live in a welfare state that seems to support the poor. This is at odds with your view that the government is causing the population to die off. It is the exact opposite. We live in a welfare state that treats fat people for being fat and gives new liver’s to alcoholics. We house single mother’s or benefit claimant’s with large families. We support the poor. I would suggest that you perhaps review you theory on the government here as it is at odds with what actually happens in reality.

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