Monckton: Of meteorology and morality

By Christopher Monckton of Brenchley

To those of us who have dared to question on scientific and economic grounds the official story on global warming, it is a continuing surprise that there is so little concern about whether or not that story is objectively true among the many who have swallowed it hook, Party Line and sinker.

For the true-believers, the Party Line is socially convenient, politically expedient, and financially profitable. Above all, it is the Party Line. For those who think as herds or hives, it is safe. It is a grimy security blanket. It is the dismal safety in numbers that is the hallmark of the unreasoning mob.

But is it true? The herd and the hive do not care. Or, rather, they do care. They care very much if anyone dares to ask the question “But is it true?” They are offended, shocked, outraged. They vent their venom and their spleen and their fury on those of us who ask, however politely, “But is it true?”

Their reaction is scarcely distinguishable from the behavior of the adherents of some primitive superstitious cult on learning that someone has questioned some egregiously, self-evidently barmy aspect of the dogma that the high priests have handed down.

They have gotten religion, but they call it science. They have gotten religion, but they do not know they have gotten religion. They have gotten religion, but they have not gotten the point of religion, which, like the point of science, is objective truth.

The question arises: can science function properly or at all in the absence of true religion and of its insistence upon morality? For science, in searching for the truth, is pursuing what is – or very much ought to be – a profoundly moral quest.

Yet what if a handful of bad scientists wilfully tamper with data, fabricate results, and demand assent to assertions for which there is no real scientific justification? And what if the vast majority of their colleagues cravenly look the other way and do nothing about their bent colleagues? What you get is the global warming scare.

As every theologian knows, the simplest and usually the clearest of all tests for the presence of a moral sense is whether or not the truth is being told. The true-believers in the New Superstition are not telling the truth. On any objective test, they are lying, and are profiteering by lying, and are doing so at your expense and mine, and are bidding fair to bring down the Age of Enlightenment and Reason, flinging us back into the dumb, inspissate cheerlessness of a new Dark Age.

Nothing is done about the many lies, of course, because the many lies are the Party Line, and no one ever went to jail who safely parroted the Party Line.

“The Science Is Settled! There’s A Consensus! A 97.1% Consensus! Doubters Are As Bad As Holocaust Deniers! Global Temperature Is Rising Dangerously! It Is Warmer Now Than For 1400 Years! Well, 400 Years, Anyway! Tree-Rings Reliably Tell Us So! The Rate Of Global Warming Is Getting Ever Faster! Global Warming Caused Superstorm Sandy! And Typhoon Haiyan! And 1000 Other Disasters! Arctic Sea Ice Will All Be Gone By 2013! OK, By 2015! Or Maybe 2030! Santa Claus Will Have Nowhere To Live! Cuddly Polar Bears Are Facing Extinction! Starving Polar Bears Will Start Eating Penguins! Himalayan Glaciers Will All Melt By 2035! Er, Make That 2350! Millions Of Species Will Become Extinct! Well, Dozens, Anyway! Sea Level Is Rising Dangerously! It Will Rise 3 Feet! No, 20 Feet! No, 246 Feet! There Will Be 50 Million Climate Refugees From Rising Seas By 2010! OK, Make That 2020! The Oceans Will Acidify! Corals Will Die! Global Warming Kills! There Is A One In Ten Chance Global Warming Will End The World By 2100! We Know What We’re Talking About! We Know Best! We Are The Experts! You Can Trust Us! Our Computer Models Are Correct! The Science Is Settled! There’s A Consensus!”

And so, round and round, ad nauseam, ad ignorantiam, ad infinitum.

Every one of those exclamatory, declamatory statements about the climate is in substance untrue. Most were first uttered by scientists working for once-respected universities and government bodies. For instance, the notion that there is a 1 in 10 chance the world will end by 2100 is the fundamentally fatuous assumption in Lord Stern’s 2006 report on climate economics, written by a team at the U.K. Treasury for the then Socialist Government, which got the answer it wanted but did not get the truth, for it did not want the truth.

Previously, you could count on getting nothing but the truth from the men in white coats with leaky Biros in the front pocket. Now, particularly if the subject is global warming, you can count on getting little but profitable nonsense from your friendly local university science lab. They make the profits: you get the nonsense.

The central reason why what Professor Niklas Mörner has called “the greatest lie ever told” is damaging to civilization arises not from the staggering cost, soon to be $1 billion a day worldwide. Not from the direct threat to the West posed by the avowedly anti-democratic, anti-libertarian policies of the UN, the IPCC, and the costly alphabet-soup of unelected busybody agencies of predatory government that live off the taxpayer’s involuntary generosity. Not from the dire environmental damage caused by windmills and other equally medieval measures intended to make non-existent global warming go away.

The damage caused by the Great Lie arises from the fact that just about the entire global governing class has found it expedient or convenient or profitable to adopt the Great Lie, to peddle it, to parade it, to parrot it, to pass it on, regardless of whether anything that it says on the subject of the climate has any truth in it whatsoever.

The fundamental principle upon which Aristotle built the art and science of Logic is that every individual truth is consistent with every other individual truth. The truth is a seamless robe. Religion – or at any rate the Catholic presentation to which I inadequately subscribe (practising but not perfect) – is also built upon that fundamental principle of the oneness of all truth.

Science, too – or at any rate the classical scientific method adumbrated by Thales of Miletus and Al-Haytham and brought to fruition by Newton, Huxley, Einstein, and Popper – was also rooted in the understanding that there is only one truth, only one physical law, and that, therefore, every truth unearthed by the diligence of the curious and hard-working empiricist or theoretician must, if it be truly true, be consistent at every point and in every particular with every truth that had ever been discovered before, and with every truth yet to be discovered.

It is in the understanding of that central principle of the remarkable oneness and self-consistency of all truth that men of true religion and of true science ought to have become united. For there is an awesome beauty in the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. As Keats put it, “Beauty is truth, truth beauty – that is all.”

The beauty of the truth is sullied, the seamless robe rent in sunder, if not merely a few individual scientists but the entire classe politique not merely of a single nation but of the planet advantages itself, enriches the already rich and impoverishes the already poor by lying and lying and lying again in the name of Saving The Planet by offering costly and environmentally destructive non-solutions to what is proving to be a non-problem.

The very fabric of the Universe is distorted by so monstrous and so sullenly persistent a lie. Those scientists who have been caught out trampling the truth, and those universities in which it has become near-universally agreed that the best thing to keep the cash flowing is to say nothing about the Great Lie, are by their actions or inactions repudiating the very justification and raison-d’être of science: to seek the truth, to find it, to expound it, to expand it, and so to bring us all closer to answering the greatest of all questions: how came we and all around us to be here?

We who are not only men of science but also men of religion believe that the Answer to that question lay 2000 years ago in a manger in Bethlehem. The very human face of the very Divine was “perfectly God and perfectly Man”, as the Council of Chalcedon beautifully put it.

We cannot prove that a Nazarene made the Universe, or that any Divine agency takes the slightest interest in whether we tell the truth. But, for as long as there is no evidence to the contrary, we are free to believe it. And it is in our freedom to believe that which has not been proven false that the value of true religion to true science may yet come to be discerned. For our religion teaches us that truthfulness is right and wilful falsehood wrong. We cannot prove that that is so, but we believe it nonetheless.

Science, though, is not a matter of belief (unless you belong to Greenpeace or some other Marxist front organization masquerading as an environmental group). It is a matter of disciplined observation, careful theoretical deduction, and cautious expression of results. The true scientist does not say, “I believe”: but he ought, if there is any curiosity and awe in his soul, to say “I wonder …”. Those two words are the foundation of all genuine scientific enquiry.

Yet the global warming scare has shown how very dangerous is science without morality. The scientist, who takes no one’s word for anything (nullius in verba), does not accept a priori that there is any objectively valuable moral code. He does not necessarily consider himself under any moral obligation either to seek the truth or, once he has found it, to speak it.

Science, therefore, in too carelessly or callously rejecting any value in religion and in the great code of morality in which men of religion believe and which at least they try however stumblingly to follow, contains within itself the seeds of its own destruction.

Yea, truth faileth (Isaiah, 59:15). The Great Lie persists precisely because too many of the scientists who utter it no longer live in accordance with the moral yardstick that Christianity once provided, or any moral yardstick, so that they do not consider they have any moral obligation to tell the truth.

That being so, we should no longer consider ourselves as laboring under any obligation, moral or other, to pay any particular heed to scientists seeking to meddle in politics unless and until they have shown themselves once more willing to be what al-Haytham said they should be: seekers after truth.

Two hundred and forty-six feet of sea-level rise, Dr. Hansen? Oh, come off it!

A merry Christmas an’ a roarin’ Hogmanay to one and all.

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Warren
December 25, 2013 10:11 am

Davidmhoffer: I’ve had enough of your personal attacks. If you don’t stop, I’ll ask the moderator to kick you off the forum. You are completely out of line.
[I have checked your accusation that davidmhoffer has been making personal attacks. I find only one, it’s quite mild but I’ll snip it anyway. If I have missed any, please point them out in a comment. I can’t promise to act immediately. Given the time of year, please be patient. – mod]

Zeke
December 25, 2013 10:19 am

Inre: ralfellis. Re: Og and Sihon, kings who declared war on the Israelites, and lost the battle.
Moses and the Israelites were passing through this area on their way to Canaan. Requests were sent to the following nations to allow their passage: Moab, Edom, Amorites, Bashan. The Israelites asked to use the road, and they would purchase any water and any food on their way through. Og and Sihon chose instead to attack the people, including their women and children, rather than allow them to pass through. And they lost.

troe
December 25, 2013 10:24 am

Our “Magnificent Obsession” even on Christmas day. From my frosty Tennessee hills home I ask you to consider:
Senator Howard Baker (TN) The Clean Air Act
Senator Albert Gore Jr (TN) Climate Change research funding specialist on all levels
Rep Bart Gordon (TN) Chairman House Science Committee
Senator Lamar Alexander (TN) ranking member Senate Science Committee
Tennesse is the home of Oak Ridge National Laboratory
Our politicians know how to work the system better than most. Apologies to all

ralfellis
December 25, 2013 10:26 am

HenryP says: December 25, 2013 at 9:05 am
To know what God looks like, you could look in the New Testament or here:
http://www.hourofpower.org/global/south_africa/news/JesusisGodbook.doc
or start here
http://blogs.24.com/henryp/2013/03/01/where-is-your-faith
___________________________________
Page after page of meaningless twaddle designed to bedazzle the gullible proletariat of yester-year. Sorry, but you are on a science blog here, and we are rational, intelligent beings who are not about to be cowed by an invisible bogey-man in the skies. Especially a supposedly benevolent (but actually malevolent) bogeyman who likes nothing better than punishing people and sending torments and destruction down on earth.
Your link says that to understand god we: “First, we have to acknowledge that God is the Creator of all things.”
Yowwee, now that is really the scientific method. First we have to beelieeeve, and only then we are allowed to engage the brian and think.
Merry Flying-Spaghetti-Monster-Mas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster
Ralph

December 25, 2013 10:30 am

“Most were first uttered by scientists working for once-respected universities”
Am I right in saying that NO university or scientific institution in the world is untainted by this shame?

Jim Clarke
December 25, 2013 10:33 am

Warren says:
December 24, 2013 at 8:51 pm
“To all skeptics, my question is: of all other near consensus-science issues….relativity, plate tectonics, evolution…do you single out AGW for derision, and if so why?”
The simple answer is evidence. Relativity and plate tectonics have been confirmed by observation and, more importantly, there have not been any observations that indicate they are false. Nor has anyone yet proposed a better explanation for the observed. Evolution…frankly, the only reason that evolution is considered a consensus science is because of its direct conflict with religion. It has been elevated to consensus to defeat a dogmatic religious stance. If that religious stance was not there, evolution would still be very much a theory, and progress in that field would be advancing much more rapidly. As it is, it has become its own dogma, every bit as sacrosanct as the creationists beliefs. Quantum physics is revealing that the theory of evolution will likely have to do some evolving itself.
As to AGW…it has not been confirmed by observation. There are many observations that are contrary to the theory and disprove some aspects of it. There have been better explanations proposed for the observations. These explanations all involve a significant natural variability that is larger than the impact of CO2 emissions, and these explanations have been supported by the evidence.
This begs the question about your precious peer reviewed literature: Why do the majority of peer-reviewed papers support the AGW theory? First of all, the majority of those papers do not attempt to verify the AGW theory, but take the theory as a first assumption: ‘If the theory of AGW (as proposed by the IPCC) is true then the following things will happen.’ Such papers are used as evidence that scientists are supporting the theory, when, in fact, they give no evidence whatsoever that the theory is valid. There are actually very few papers that provide evidence that the theory is valid, simply because there is very little evidence that the theory is valid. In fact, most attempts to directly support the theory in the journals are convoluted attempts to explain why the observations are not fitting the theory, such as constant attempts to rewrite past climate history or ‘the heat is hiding in the oceans’ nonsense.
But the primary answer to your question is FUNDING. Let’s use medicine as an example. Suppose you are a biology research scientist that has a particular curiosity about certain viruses and bacteria that seem to have no real impact on humanity or the human environment. They appear to be completely benign, yet you remain fascinated. So you write your proposals to get funding to study these little creatures. In the meantime, your peers are sending in proposals to study viruses and bacteria that may pose huge threats to humanity or the environment. Who do you think gets funded. Who do you think will be able to do research? Who do you think the journals will be more interested in publishing? It is your peers that will get the money, not you. Even if their hypothesis is wrong and their work is terrible, they will still get the funding. They will still get published. They will still get the accolades from the university and the positive press in the local media.
Have you ever seen the headline: “Everything Unfolded Quite Nicely Yesterday” In this world, good news is no news. Ideally, science should be about discovering the truth, but realistically, science has become a source for politicians to promote problem solving. If it is not a problem, it doesn’t get government funding. It becomes absolutely necessary for scientists to spin all of their work into something that will solve a problem or benefit the world in some way. It becomes absolutely necessary that scientists never question the validity of the problem itself, if they want to stay employed. If the government is funding global warming science, then spin your proposal to indicate that your research will add to that understanding. And if your research doesn’t actually add anything or even refutes the global warming meme (as many papers do) then simply conclude that your findings are not conclusive, that global warming is still a problem and that you need more funding to really understand what is happening (as almost all AGW related papers do.) Even though your evidence does not support the AGW theory, you spin in your Abstract and conclusion will give that impression to the likes of Oreskis and others.
Climate skeptics are dismantling the alleged problem of global warming. They are basically killing the goose laying the golden eggs, for the politician wishing to appear concerned to the electorate, bureaucrat convincing himself that he is involved in a noble cause and the scientist wishing to do research and feed his/her family. It is not a conspiracy to hide the truth, it is an attempt to prosper in a cultural environment that benefits from a falsehood. (Such environments are quite common in our human experience; from nationalism to our relationships with spouses and our children. We often ignore truth in order to prosper (or at least get by) in such environments).
Consequently, the funding and peer review process is no longer a path to truth, but a path to what somebody with money wants to hear. To some extent, it has always been this way. I am sure that there were many alchemists that who knew they would never turn lead into gold, but they weren’t about to tell that to the king.
Still the ‘truth will out’, despite this ‘unnatural’ attempt to pervert it. It may take some time, but thanks to the internet, not nearly as long as it used to. The internal policing and censoring of scientific thought, euphemistically called peer review, is no longer the only path to truth. Truth, like anything, is arrived at more quickly when there is competition for it. If the peer review process was really about discovering truth, it would welcome those who pointed out its flaws, and not circle the wagons and claim divine authority, like it does, and you are demonstrating in your posts.
Merry Christmas to all!
May the truth be with you!

Zeke
December 25, 2013 10:34 am

Inre: ralfellis says, “And Joshua was no better. At Jericho he killed all the men, women and children, and stole all the gold, silver and brass. Significantly, the only people allowed to survive the slaughter at Jericho was a prostitute called Rahab and her family, who opened the gates to allow the Israelites in. Josh 6:21-25”
And subsequently, the Israelites were removed from their land for their utter corruption by the Assyrian army. Assyrians were known for flaying people alive, putting them on pikes, and their legal code instituted the removal of limbs, noses, and ears for small offenses. Not a pretty ancient culture, but just another example of idolatrous, pagan “morality.” The southern kingdom of Judah was also removed by the brutal, greedy Babylonian army in 586 BC, about one hundred years after the Assyrians took the northern kingdom.
There is no favoritism. You can read Habbakuk to try to understand the events of those days.

Chad Wozniak
December 25, 2013 10:35 am

–
It’s kinda like reading Mein Kampf, isn’t it?

ralfellis
December 25, 2013 10:37 am

Zeke says: December 25, 2013 at 9:37 am
Here is a version of the 10 Commandments which would support the basic structure of the society for the people of Israel.
___________________________
People often quote these Ten Commandments, as if previous peoples and civilisation never had laws of morality, before Moses found his stones.
However, all the major civilizations had their codes of social conduct. These are the Egyptian laws or commandments, from the Book of the Dead. They are declared retrospectively, as they were recited to the god(s) as they judged your heart and soul, and decided if you could live for eternity or be fed to a hippo-crocodile beast:
I have not impoverished the divine herd (people);
I have committed no crime in place of What is Right;
I have not known (done) nothingness;
I have not done any evil
I have not made a daily start in labours over what I did (previously);
My name has not reached the office of director of servants;
I have not stolen goods from an orphan;
I have not done the abomination of the gods;
I have not slighted a servant to his master;
I have not caused affliction;
I have not caused hunger;
I have not caused grief;
I have not killed;
I have not harmed the offering-cattle;
I have not caused pain for anyone;
I have not reduced the offerings in the temples;
I have not harmed the offering-loaves of the gods;
I have not taken the festival-loaves of the blessed dead;
I have not penetrated the penetrater of a penetrater;
I have not masturbated;
I have not reduced the measuring-vessel:
I have not reduced the measuring cord;
I have not encroached on the fields;
I have not added to the pan of the scales;
I have not tampered with the plumb bob of the scales;
I have not taken milk from the mouths of babes;
I have not concealed herds from their pastures;
I have not snared birds in the thickets (?) of the gods;
I have not caught fish in their pools;
I have not held back water in its time;
I have not dammed a dam at rapid waters;
I have not put out the fire in its moment;
I have not transgressed the days concerning meat offerings;
I have not turned back cattle from the property of a god;
I have not blocked a god in his processions;
I think you will find most of the Ten Commandments in here. And note the purge against corruption – nothing changes.
Ralph

Steve Keohane
December 25, 2013 10:40 am

Warren says:December 25, 2013 at 10:08 am
Pamela,
Water vapor as measured in the atmosphere has been increasing for several decades at the modest rate of 1.2% per decade, (absolute amounts) consistent with

Got data?
http://i48.tinypic.com/2qlfnzn.jpg

Zeke
December 25, 2013 10:45 am

Ralph says: “Your link says that to understand god we: “First, we have to acknowledge that God is the Creator of all things.” Yowwee, now that is really the scientific method. First we have to beelieeeve, and only then we are allowed to engage the brian and think.”
In science, you claim that without a theory, there can be no observations. The observer will not be able to single out any particular event or force from any other, without a hypothesis. Similarly, one believes that God exists and is also able to make the observations. It is not an irrational and unheard of principle in science.

December 25, 2013 10:47 am

Warren says:
December 25, 2013 at 10:08 am
Pamela,
Water vapor as measured in the atmosphere has been increasing for several decades at the modest rate of 1.2% per decade, (absolute amounts) consistent with the physics expressed by the Clausius-Clapeyron equation, and the rise in global avg temperatures.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Would these be the global average temperatures that haven’t risen in close to 2 decades? How does water vapour increase in response to temperature when the temperature isn’t increasing?
Oh, well, it turns out that your assertion is wrong according to both satellite data from NASA’s NVAP-M project and from NOAA’s radiosonde data.
But you’re close to a new record for the number of things wrong in a single sentence. You really oughta stop assuming that you are an expert because you watched a video.
Pamela – if I have deprived you of the pleasure of spanking this little troll, I apologize.

ralfellis
December 25, 2013 10:51 am

Chad Wozniak says: December 25, 2013 at 10:35 am
–
It’s kinda like reading Mein Kampf, isn’t it?
___________________________________
A fair comparison. The Nazis were, after all right-wing socialists (i.e.: called National Socialists).
Likewise, the Nazarene Church of Jesus and James were also socialists. You were expected to give all your wealth to the Church when you joined (as with the Essene and the Templars). This is why the latter Nazarene Church was called the Ebionites, or The Poor, just like the Templars were called the Poor Knights of Christ.
But St Peter went one stage further, because when Ananias and Sapphira did not give all their wealth to the disciples, they were both killed. Acts 5:1-11
Bear that in mind, next time the collecting plate is passed around. Did you leave a dollar in your pocket? Ooohhhh – better watch your back, the malevolent being will get you……..
Ralph

December 25, 2013 10:54 am

Warren says
Water vapor as measured in the atmosphere has been increasing for several decades at the modest rate of 1.2% per decade, (absolute amounts) consistent with the physics expressed by the Clausius-Clapeyron equation, and the rise in global avg temperatures. The earth is a closed system with respect to water, so the amount of water the air can hold, globally, depends almost entirely on the Global avg temperature;
henry says
my results show relative humidity decreasing at an average rate of about -0.02% per annum , over the past two decades, in a reasonably representative sample, balanced on latitude, together with a slight increase in precipitation.
The problem is that in a cooling period such as it happening now, from 2002:
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadcrut4gl/from:1987/to:2014/plot/hadcrut4gl/from:2002/to:2014/trend/plot/hadcrut3gl/from:1987/to:2014/plot/hadcrut3gl/from:2002/to:2014/trend/plot/rss/from:1987/to:2014/plot/rss/from:2002/to:2014/trend/plot/hadsst2gl/from:1987/to:2014/plot/hadsst2gl/from:2002/to:2014/trend/plot/hadcrut4gl/from:1987/to:2002/trend/plot/hadcrut3gl/from:1987/to:2002/trend/plot/hadsst2gl/from:1987/to:2002/trend/plot/rss/from:1987/to:2002/trend
the differential between the poles and the equator is increasing, causing more clouds and rain around the equator and it becomes both cooler and drier at the higher latitudes.
So, in order for you to claim that humidity is increasing due to the warming (which is now in the past, as per the above graph) you have to come up with some results that show the trend of the increasing humidity at all latitudes……
My results suggest that global cooling as such will continue to accelerate and will not end until around 2040
http://blogs.24.com/henryp/2013/04/29/the-climate-is-changing/
Wishing you all a joyous and blessed Christmas, celebrating the fact that our God came to be one of us, Immanuel, Christ in us.

Harry Passfield
December 25, 2013 10:57 am

Re; Warren: As I saw in another post, whether a typo or not, he is the “git that keeps on giving!” (I wish I could find the original to give props).

dp
December 25, 2013 10:58 am

It was not a typo – I know because I wrote it 🙂

Bruce Cobb
December 25, 2013 10:59 am

Warren; You are incorrect (as usual). Water vapor in the upper atmosphere has been declining, and that decline far outweighs the slight increase in lower atmosphere water vapor in terms of its’ effect on OLR:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/03/06/nasa-satellite-data-shows-a-decline-in-water-vapor/
This is borne out by the FACT that there has been no further warming for about the past 17 years, and the evidence shows that we are now in fact cooling, which very likely will continue for several decades. The reason for this is simple: the warming effect of our additional CO2 can not be shown to exist, no matter how much you wish it so.

Zeke
December 25, 2013 11:03 am

ralfellis says: “But St Peter went one stage further, because when Ananias and Sapphira did not give all their wealth to the disciples, they were both killed. Acts 5:1-11”
That is not at all what the text says. People were giving to others in need voluntarily. This is not socialism, this is charity. The two in question, Ananias and Sapphira, were also giving but claimed it was all they had. This was meant to impress everyone. And they died. No one laid a hand on those two. The spiritual lesson is obviously not to give a false impression of generousity or try to purchase a position. Context, context, context.

Chad Wozniak
December 25, 2013 11:08 am

@thingadonta –
In reference to your comment about a non-religious moral standard:
My non-religious moral standard is founded on four basic principles: (1) the golden rule; (2) the agreement to disagree; (3) the pledge to do no harm; and (4) furtherance of well-being.
A declaration of human rights institutionalizes these to some extent – but doesn’t fully articulate them. More is needed. However, a, benevolent, tolerant religious belief can provide that, since it will incorporate these four principles.

Jim Clarke
December 25, 2013 11:10 am

“Venus experienced runaway global warming due to the positive feedback of water vapor and the huge amount of water put into the atmosphere.”
Nonsense…Venus was always hot. There were never liquid oceans on Venus that evaporated and caused the atmosphere to heat up. The atmosphere of Venus has likely always been as hot as it is now, relatively speaking.
Earth, on the other hand, has NEVER had runaway global warming, even when the temperature was warmer than today and CO2 was much higher than today (or both). There is no feasible way that humans will ever put more CO2 into the atmosphere than has naturally been there in the past. Those high levels of CO2 did not trigger runaway global warming then and the far lessor amounts today will certainly not trigger it.
Move Venus into Earth’s orbit and it will eventually cool down to an Earth-like temperature. The amount of CO2 and water vapor in the Venusian atmosphere will not stop that from happening. These gases play extremely minor temperature roles in atmospheric temperature compared to the distance from the sun.

A C Osborn
December 25, 2013 11:24 am

Jim Clarke says: December 25, 2013 at 11:10 am
The 2 main reasons for Venus’s high temperature are the distance from the Sun and the Density & Depth of it’s Atmosphere. ie the atmospheric Lapse Rate.

ralfellis
December 25, 2013 11:24 am

Dear Monckton,
Sorry to pour rain on your parade, Monk, but I suggest you keep your faith out of science. If you want to maintain Dark Age beliefs, that’s fine by me, but don’t shove it down my throat.
I know more about your Church than you will ever know, and I am not afraid to use it. So bottle it up, will you.
Ralph

December 25, 2013 11:28 am

ralfellis says December 25, 2013 at 10:51 am
A fair comparison. The Nazis were, after all right-wing socialists

Right wing – socialists?
Makes perfect sense if one is running with/defining one’s own set of ‘definitions’ I suppose.
.

December 25, 2013 11:32 am

ralfellis say December 25, 2013 at 10:51 am
…
Likewise, the Nazarene Church of Jesus and James were also socialists.

Liquor back in the cabinet and Eggnog back to the fridge … please?
And Merry Christmas.

December 25, 2013 11:37 am

Thank you Lord Christopher, entertaining, informative & moral as ever.
I’ll vote UKIP because you’re guiding Farage.
I’d love to join this lively debate, but being almost sufficiently full of Christmas cheer, I’ll content myself with best Christmas wishes to all, & here’s to a return to sanity in 2014.
You never know. Fact is stranger than fiction, as someone said.
JD.

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